Rumors | "Murder in the Orange Grove" | "48 Hours" Podcast (Episode 2) | Forensic Files

this is Agent Demaris forvard County Sheriff's Office criminalistic unit we are at holder
park on the morning of April 4th 1989 hours after chipain's murder agent Debbie dears arrived on scene at holder
Park shortly before Dawn it's the place where chip and his ex-girlfriend Kim HCK
sad and T in his truck and where Kim says a black man approached the vehicle dears recorded her
observations crime scene begins with what we believe to be suspect shoe prints that initiate at this
point holder Park is a popular well trampled site for local baseball games agent dears and the crime unit team were
there specifically looking at the tire tracks of chiplin truck along with shoeprints that they thought could
belong to the perpetrator agent dears assumed that the alleged attacker arrived at the park in
a vehicle and she tracks shoeprints heading in a West Direction up into the area between the trees which is where
the victim's vehicle was parked along with the two victims prior to the abduction but oddly dears also saw those
same suspect Sho prints exiting the area towards a baseball field not disappearing as they would if the wearer
had gotten into a truck the shoeprints after proceeding West will then continue on around just to the outside of this
fence with the last shoe print being seen just north of the second cement pole as agent dear's continued her
investigation local news crews descended on the scene about 200 yd down this road
is apparently where the murder occurred Sheriff's officials tell us all three got out of the truck and then both men
fired shots the next day April 5th the newspaper featured a photo of dear's helping another agent pull up a plaster
cast of a shoe print and just below that a police sketch of a black man the image
reflected the details that Kim hallik had given officers about the alleged as salent and now police were asking for
help as they search for a black male it didn't take long for people to start pointing fingers at Crosley green I
wanted the person who done it I wanted Justice done at all cost but what exactly was Justice 35
years ago in the small Florida communities of Titusville and Mims it's an area where racial lines have been
clearly drawn for generations and where animus and fear still lived right below the
surface I'm 48 Hours correspondent eron morard this is murder in the Orange Grove the troubled case against Crosley
Green episode 2 rumors okay first thing I just want you to introduce yourself tell me your name and
how long you've lived in Titusville and Bard County uh my name's Timothy Lee Curtis
I've lived in Titusville basically my entire life and I'd like to say that's 26 years but it's a little
longer I live in Titus field 63 and A2 years I've been interviewing Tim Curtis of and on for 25 years most recently in
late spring of 2024 his family ran a local body shop in Titusville Florida for decades it's
where Deputy sheriffs would bring in their cars for service so Tim was privy to a lot of Gossip around town he's a
friendly guy to have a beer with but I've learned over the years there's more to him than he lets
on how big a story was this how big a case in town it was I mean it was there was a we
were a small town back then I mean and we have a a young guy that was allegedly murdered by a black guy so that was very
very heated in the community the town of Titusville sits smack dab in the middle
of Florida's East Coast it's part of the state that's also known as the Space Coast since it's home to Kennedy Space
Center Titus is relatively small compared to nearby Orlando Mims an incorporated area of
Bard county is even smaller there's no High School in Mims the entire area is assigned to Astronaut High School in
Titusville and that means people know each other people like Tim Curtis did you know Kim helik at all
back then yes I I knew the hoc family very well and Tim became close friends with chip Flynn after selling him a
truck the same truck that chip was driving the night he was killed I think chip was just a young ambitious boy like
most of us were that had a whole life ahead of him um that you know was very excited when I sold him the truck that
he had this beautiful nice truck to drive around for a young guy that's you know that's back back then it was cars
trucks and girls Tim had also known Crosley green and his brother o' Conor since they were teenagers you were good
friends with OK Conor weren't you yeah we I admired o Conor we admired OK Conor because he was such a a phenomenal
football player and I've known Crosley many many years I mean he liked to run smack from his mouth you know he he was
a type of guy that would probably steal your lawn mow if you were setting on it and you not know it was
stolen that in particular day of the of the crime um I ran into Crossley because I
used to jog and I ran by his house and me and him exchange some words no heated words we would just his dog had run out
after me and I had said some things don't let your dog bite me and ain't going to end well kind of thing but and
what did Crosley say back um he may have said something like you know and if I remember correctly he used the word
cracker cracker don't don't you hurt my dog cracker now or so you know that then
I then I'll use some words back at him as to you know you better get your dog crosy Tim had told me something similar
when I first spoke with him in 1999 um they said that the guy who done this was using the word cracker a lot
and I think that there alone to be honest with you stuck with me it stuck with Tim and would further convince him
that Crosley was a prime suspect in chiplin murder when police released a composite sketch of the alleged as
salent Tim posted it on the wall of his shop and some of the rumor it already been that that you know they're looking
for Crosley that crosley's one of the suspects oh Conor green saw the sketch posted in Tim's shop I remember having
some words about it and I said you know that looks like Crosley like just to see
his response and he was very you know outspoken going you know BS Timmy you know damn good and well that don't look
like my brother and I was trying to maybe like pry him a little bit you know cuz In fairness I like chip I'm the one
that sold chip the truck you know I was very you know very concerned and I was definitely wanting whoever did this to
be BR to Justice you know so I was to be honest with you I was out to help any way I could and so Tim Curtis decided to
go to the police with a tip one that involved a story that he had heard about Crosley green a story that had been
passed along from this man no my name is Kerwin hear Kerwin heern new chip Flynn
Tim Curtis and Crosley green who was known around town as Papa I spoke to Kerwin in
1999 we sat on a weathered picnic table in the front yard of the house where he lived with his parents it was an early
evening rumor control had it that he did it rumor control rumor control what does
that mean uh just gossip in the street I guess you would call it the morning after the
murder April 4th Kerwin was at work cutting grass near the Orange Grove the area was roped off and full of police
activity Kerwin said that later that day two of Chip's relatives asked if he had
any information about who killed chip and uh we got to talk and so he said hey kin do you did you hear anything and of
course I just you know and I told him Ruma has it that such and such took place you know and naming uh Papa green
so you told him there was a rumor rumor that Papa green had done it rumor rumor and I want to emphasize rumor I mean it
wasn't it wasn't nothing that I knew for a fact or I don't think think anybody else knew as for a fact it was just
rumor control and I guess the rumor started because basically the police was looking
for him to question him concerning the murder and I I'm assuming that's how the the rumor got started that evening two
investigators showed up at kerwin's doorstep and said hey you know Kerwin we need to talk to you and I was like for
what uh concerning Papa green do you know him yeah I know him uh well we need you to
we we want to talk to you concerning him about the this uh murder you heard about
I don't know nothing about it but they insisted that I go with them to talk to them and discuss this concerning Papa in
this murder case wait a minute so you told these investigators clearly you knew nothing about it nothing about it
and they still asked you to come in to where Sheriff's Department exactly Kerwin had been on probation at the time
of Chip's murder and had not been following the probation requirements so when the interview began did you feel
pressured to give them something did you feel you had to well let me ask you a question considering the fact that I was
on probation I wasn't following the probation to the letter t uh I mean you make the call
you felt pressure yeah I mean yeah I read some of kerwin's statements to the police back to him specifically where he
recounted something that he had heard from o Conor green look here um in your statement and this is a tape statement
right M it says let's see um I Heard OK Conor talking about it you know only thing I really heard was the
fact that you know his brother was a dumb f for doing it this and that more or less that kind of thing I was this
you talking nah you n and and and here you go what I'm saying is I think they kind of take
what I'm trying to say out of context and trying to say that I said that Okana said that his brother make kill that
person but what I'm saying is Papa wasn't willing to turn himself in you understand what I'm saying he
wasn't willing to turn himself in and and his brother was saying hey you being a dumb F for not doing it because you
need to do it and just just go and and face up to it but why if this if Papa green didn't commit this murder why was
the big concern about him turn himself in well you think about it now I mean it's and I'm going to make a har
statement here and and I don't want to offend nobody here cuz I'm the only one here of
color it's you mean it's hard as a black person okay you being accused of committing a murder killing a white
person okay your best bet is just go and turn yourself in CU I mean I mean reality is if you you
sit there and run around on the street you subject get shot by a cop period I mean that's pretty ugly and
hard to say but that's reality that's that's America I showed Kerwin a copy of the police
composite sketch that was made from Kim H's description of the alleged as salent
the morning after the shooting on April 4th 1989 does this look like crossy green no
it don't at all no no why not what's why doesn't this look like Crosley gra first
of all he got too much hair all right and no too big lips too big his Chin's not made up like his face is too
fat that's not possible not at all and I know darn well I could have been zooted out of my mind I would have
never said that was popping cuz they don't look nothing like it but regardless of Kerwin he's denials
here it's safe to say that he had been part of the rumor bill that Crosley green was involved in killing chip Flynn
that rumor would jump to Chip's relatives who would then pass that information on to Tim Curtis but instead
of it being called just a rumor the rumor became fact Crosley green had killed chip Flynn Tim who had called the
police on April 5th with that information just added fuel to the fire on the evening of April 5th Kim H
returned to the Sheriff's Office with her father to view a photo lineup of six black men when asked to identify the man
she claimed robbed and kidnapped her and then killed chip she pointed to a photo
that was darker than any of the others it was Crosley green Crosley green and his family had
been in the local news on and off for years since he was a young child it was Christmas
1966 when a fire destroyed his family's home in Mims a kerosene heater had exploded luckily everyone was able to
escape an Orlando newspaper reported that the family lost all of their possessions and the community rallied to
help the family the green siblings were always close 11 of them in total Crosley
was the third oldest I sat down with three of them in 2020 my name is Shirley White and Crosby
Green is is my brother and just out of curiosity where are you in the family I am the oldest my name is O caror
green and I'm Crosley little brother my name is deer green and I'm Crosley sister I'm the third oldest
sister and where from Crosley you don't have to worry five on the fifth D how would you describe your
brother Papa was kind playful with me he was smart Shirley told me the origin of crosley's nickname Papa it
just was a name that we just picked out when he was a little boy and everybody fell in love with him
and very few people called him Crosby because everybody know him as Papa and oh Conor but there was a reason I
mean he that he was called Papa wasn't it I mean it fit him yeah he was the he was the favorite
boy in the family when it came to dad and son relationship you know you know dad
always called him Papa too their father Booker T green was a truck driver for a MIM Citrus firm
and growing up and Ms you know my dad was the only one worked my mom most stayed home and helped us in school and
everything kept kept the food cooked kept everything cleaned up around the house and
everything and while Booker was working Crosley took on a fatherly role in the family even towards his older sister
Shirley and he would talk to me like a father because my my father he was so busy working even though we know he he
loved it us but he didn't have the time to just show us and talk to us Papa was like he was that
father and when he say something you would just look at him and and you took heat to what he say he said don't do it
you don't do it he put up he played a big part in my life even though I was the oldest he
played a very very special part in my heart Crosley played football in high school but according to Crosley he
dropped out to spend more time working with his father he really looked out for the family and he looked out for the
people were not even not people that he didn't even know you know he spent a lot
of time helping people do things if you needed any kind of help and he was around you know he always gave him gave
you a hand but there was also an intensely Dark Side to their family life the green children grew up poor and they
were victims of domestic violence all of which culminated in their parents' horrific murder suicide in
1977 shortly after their parents separated Booker T green shot their mother constant twice before shooting
himself Crosley was 19 at the time ' Conor was 17 and this is when Crosley truly became
Papa of the family besides his two older sisters Shirley and Tina most of the green siblings were miners Crosley also
had a son schuma who was 2 years old it was really really hard and my brother just like stood
up as the Big Brother of the of our family you know and I'm the little brother and I go to
him a lot to help me do a lot of things that I didn't know how to do my dad taught him he taught
me his siblings said that Crosley had actually already taken on a more protective role in the family before
their parents' deaths due to the abuse they had suffered at home as children but that turbulent home of
environment took a toll on Crosley and his siblings there were Runnings with police yeah how would you describe the
Green family reputation not very good that's Kerwin heern again it wasn't a good family last name to have at that
time the family was you know pretty deep in uh the drug scene and stuff like that no I I feel
that the cops wanted all of them off the street this place has always been pretty
well a drug infested area area since like the weeds of the mid 70s and 80s and then this crack stuff took off
right you didn't see police out here until you saw till you start seeing white females and white males start
coming through that place up there on that corner then all of a sudden now we got a problem and when you say White's
coming here to buy drugs well yeah yeah yeah but before that there was no problem see it was no problem long as
you know black selling the black ain't no problem but once the Caucasians start coming in now we got a
problem several weeks before chip flim was killed Crosley had been released from prison after serving time on a drug
charge and that wasn't the first time time he had been in trouble his legal problems had started many years earlier
when he was a teen Crosley had previously been charged with robbery when he was 17 he also pleaded guilty to
another robbery in Upstate New York but because he was 18 he was categorized as a youthful offender and his conviction
was vacated it would not count towards his record over the years his brother ' Conor had also done time in prison
relating to theft and burglary while authorities would deny it ' Conor thought that after Chip's murder crosy
and his family became targets they tried to get me to come down to the Titusville no the sheriff
department so I went I went down there and then I can't think of the officer who was asking me
all these questions and stuff where you was this this this date um did you see Crosley that date you know they just
want to know my whereabout well I was hold to hold hold towards that night they want to know
where I was and they finally backed up off me well cuz you had an alibi didn't yeah
they backed up off me and left me alone o Conor's Alibi was airtight he was at a
bar with over 60 people at the time of the murder I mean do you think that if you didn't have an alibi it could be you
sitting in prison yeah think there was a desire to just take you off the streets the the way it looked like it
yes that's what it really looked like seemed like to me you know they didn't care who it was as long as they got some
somebody that's all they were looking [Music] for when did you find out you were a
suspect when did I find out I was suspect mm um maybe a day or two days after that
was the main suspect and what was your reaction what was my reaction to that was that
here I go again here I go again as you've already heard Crosley was no stranger to runin
with the law and yet he had never been convicted of a violent crime but why would people in your neighborhood I me
you grew up in Mims think you could do something like this for number one it ain't what they
think is what they have been told from what one person Been Told then he takes it to another person and
another person takes it to another person and in that change everything get turned to around
one day into the investigation things were not looking good for Crosley green crley had been in holder Park he
had gone to a baseball game earlier on the night of the killing a former classmate of crosley's told police that
he had been at the same game and said Crosley had been wearing a plain green army jacket which matched Kim's initial
description to police of what her alleged a Salin had worn hours after the shooting a canine
unit sniffed shoe prints in holder Park and reported that the dog had tracked Ascent to a nearby intersection right
next to a house that belonged to one of crosley's sisters Tina Tim Curtis told police that he had
seen Crosley Tina's house when he was jogging that afternoon Tim also told investigators that he thought the police
sketch did in fact look like Crosley green after Kim H pointed to Crosley in a photo lineup police secured a warrant
for his arrest crosley's name and photo were released in news reports on April 7th
1989 as the suspect in chip Flynn's murder the same day as Chip's funeral but before police could arrest Crosley
he left the state kicking off a nationwide sech but did you know the police were looking for you of course of
course where supposed to do turn yourself in oh no oh no oh no I don't get along with them people
down there my family don't get along with the law enforcement down there now we have had
run-ins leaving the area certainly made Crosley green look guilty 2 months later
an anonymous caller tipped off police that Crosley had returned to Bard County and Crosley was arrested on June 8th a
little over two months after Chip's death 1989 this recording is taking place in
the uh Sheriff's uh homicide Squad offices in Parkway Florida uh cley just for the record
would you state your full name and spell your last name please okay this is crosley's original
police interview it's an archival recording from 1989 Crosley is sometimes difficult to
understand and there are background noises later that sound like tapping youve been a hard fellow to find
how about yeah they read Crosley his Miranda writes all right Mr Green this reads as follows I Crosley Alexander
green have been advised and have had explained to me my constitutional rights as follows okay and they are number one
I have the right to remain silent do you understand that and the charges um you're accused of
um robbing two white kids a boy and a girl up behind your sister Tina's house at holder Park as you know and um tying
this young man up and driving his truck on up to the Grove in Mims and uh taking
a girl out of the truck and as you know she sort of struggled a little bit and um tried to run away from you ran around
the tailgate of the uh the truck in fact um and then he got out shooting and you
know what we don't understand all along he had the gun even though his hands were tied uh he couldn't shoot at you
because she was sitting between the two of you as you know and uh when the shooting start she got in the truck and
put the hall ass on and of course he shows up dead and um you're accused of doing that listening to the recording
I'm struck by how often the officer describes the crime and then adds as you know speaking as if he was sure Crosley
was guilty but as far as Crosley was concerned this had nothing to do with him I mean you know let's get some
straight you know all right who y looking for I don't know I do it and I'm said I a do
nothing it's hard to hear clearly but Crosley was insisting I didn't do it I'm saying I didn't do
nothing but at this point things were not looking good for Crosley everything seemed to be aligning against him
perhaps a little too perfectly but upon closer examination of the evidence a different picture was
emerging the question was whether this New Perspective would come to light at trial on the next episode of Murder in
the Orange Grove the troubled case against Crosley green I I believed Crosley green I said there's no jury in the
world that's going to convict him based on these [Music] facts murder in the Orange Grove was
reported by me Aon morard alongside producers Alan Pang Annie Cronenberg and Allison Bailey Kiara norbitz is our
coordinating producer and Florence Barrow Adams is our story editor additional production support from Dylan
Gordon Marlon polycarp Caroline Casey and Christine Driscoll Judy tigart is the executive producer of 48 Hours Gail
Zimmerman asenna basak Mark gobom Charlotte Fuller Judy Ryback and Steven McCain produced the original 48 Hours
episodes associate producers were Michael Loftus and Shaheen Toki Patty aronowski was a senior
producer special thanks to Megan Marcus Jamie Benson Nick poser and Gail [Music]
[Music] spru Paramount podcasts

When news spread about Chip Flynn’s murder, it didn’t take long for people to start pointing fingers at Crosley Green. So, how did a man without a violent criminal past become the main suspect? It turns out the Green family was well known by law enforcement for all the wrong reasons. But did that mean he was responsible for killing a man?

Get early, ad-free access to episodes of Murder in the Orange Grove: The Troubled Case Against Crosley Green by subscribing to 48 Hours+ on Apple Podcasts or Wondery+ on the Wondery app. The series is widely available everywhere else you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/mitogep2?sid=YT

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the murder of Chip Flynn and the investigation of Crosley Green amid racial tensions in Titusville, Florida.

Key points

The Murder Investigation Begins. Agent Demaris and the crime unit investigate the scene of Chip Flynn's murder.
Community Reaction. Tim Curtis reflects on the heated community response to the murder of Chip Flynn.
Crosley Green's Background. Crosley Green's troubled past and family dynamics are explored.
Crosley's Arrest. Crosley was arrested over two months after the murder, raising suspicions about his guilt.
Police Interview. Crosley's original police interview reveals his insistence on innocence amidst accusations.
Emerging Evidence. A new perspective on the evidence against Crosley may change the trial's outcome.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I wanted Justice done at all cost.

Tim Curtis expresses his desire for justice after the murder.

2:47WatchSep 25, 2024

Tension

70/ 100High tension

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