Missing on Campus /// Judy Martins /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The case [music] of the missing Reese's. It was me at the store
with my mouth. Motive? Um, they're Reese's. What was I going to do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do
it again. Spoiler. I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's [music] suspense. Reese's
Picture this. It's the end of a long week. You're unwinding in the tub listening to
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our next episode? Learn more at treatmyhives.com/g. [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to True Crime. garage. Wherever
you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man that tried to
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>> All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
So far [music] no. So far [music] [music] no no no no no no no no. This week in the garage, we tell the
tale of a promising and popular college student, one that has seen plenty of academic success. In our true crime
story, a holiday is coming up, [music] which means a break in the college action. So this will be a chance for our
successful student and their classmates to take some time off. Finally getting the opportunity to take some time and
spend it on oneself with a trip. This is a chance to take a break and get away. Excited for the break and for
their trip out of state, our student decides to spend an evening out to celebrate,
going out to dinner and then a little drinking and partying afterward. Evening drinks turn into late night fun. And
late night fun turns into the small hours of the next day. It's 2:00 a.m. and things are wrapping up, winding
down, and it's time to go home. And then poof, just like that, our college student disappears.
Some say into the night and others say into thin air. Longtime listeners of this show are most certainly thinking of
Brian Schaefer, a promising Ohio State med student gearing up for a vacation with his girlfriend, out with his
friends and having a great time when suddenly he's gone. And now it's been over 15
years and he's still gone, still [music] missing. One night he walked into a bar
and 15 years go by and his name and photos of him are still listed on the Charlie Project's website and the all
missing person's database maintained by the Ohio Attorney General Dave Yoast office. But we won't be telling you the
tale of Brian Schaefer again this week because sadly there is another student that very strangely experienced a quite
similar fate. a fate of possibly never being seen alive again or simply put lost but never found. This
week we will be covering another missing student from another Ohio college campus.
Judy Martins went out partying with friends on the night of May 23rd and come morning she was gone and quite
possibly lost and never to be found. This is true crime garage and this is the case of Judy Martins.
[music] [music] >> Judy Martins was born on July 15th, 1955 [music] to proud parents Arthur and Dolores. She
would be the eldest of three children. All three children were pretty close in age, and Judy and her sister Nancy had a
tight bond. Judy was born and raised in the nice community of Avon Lake, Ohio, which is up near the Cleveland area on
the shores of Lake Erie. Judy graduated from Avon Lake High School in 1973 and she enrolled to go to school at Ohio
University in Athens, but things changed a couple years in and she transferred to
Kent State University. >> Yeah, the rumors were that she was getting homesick. >> Sadly, Kent State University is mostly
known for the notorious Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre. This was the killings of four
Kent State students and the wounding of nine others, all unarmed, when 28 Ohio National Guard soldiers fired
approximately 67 rounds at the group of students. 10 soldiers in Nixon coming in
there, Captain, >> I'm not a crook. >> But as said, Judy enrolled in Ohio University where she completed two years
of college. After that, she moved back home and eventually enrolled at Kent State where she moved into one of the
dorms. Judy was seeking an art major, minoring in women's studies, and she told her parents and fellow students she
wanted to be a therapist or counselor. And in 1978, she was well on her way. She was completing her schooling at Kent
State, and she was a resident staff assistant at one of the all female dormitories. This is the Ingleman Hall
dorm and she was a volunteer counselor at the campus's pregnancy information center.
>> And that brings us up to the details of when Judy went missing. >> Yeah. So, the night in question here,
Captain, or the days in question here will be the later part of May 23rd or the early hours of May 24th, 1978.
Now, here is the disappearance as reported by the Columbus Dispatch, which is one of the bigger newspapers here in
Ohio. And we will pause periodically to add in our own two cents, >> or in my case, 1 cent.
>> But the Dispatch article says, "Judy was last seen at about 2:30 a.m. May 24th,
1978. Witnesses told police she left a party headed for Engelman Hall only four to
six minutes away on foot. Okay, stepping in here. Captain, she was at Dunar Hall.
This is an allmale dormatory building. >> All dongs. >> She was living alone at Engelman Hall,
an all female dorm. Now, the article that we are citing says four to six minutes on foot. The best report that I
think I could find out there states that it was 215 yards from door to door. So,
two football fields of a walk late at night by herself. >> Now, this might be conflicting
information. Information I get is it's about 100 yards, but the issue becomes that there's two entrance ways. There's
a front entrance and a back entrance. So maybe that is why there's a discrepancy
on how many yards away it is. >> Yes. And neither of us have made this walk ourselves. So obviously we're going
off of different reports from different people. >> But I have been on the campus though.
>> The information I'm citing here came from the chief of police at Kent State University. But again, this is an old
case and some of this information is 30, 40 years old. Either way, it's a very small distance.
>> Correct. Well, and one critical thing here that I think we should point out, regardless if it's one football field or
two football fields in distance, is that we have a situation where Judy made this
trip before, you know, this is a a common thing that she would have done. She was uh an evening outgoing person.
She was very sociable. One thing that I think we should also mention here is a very general statement of her
personality and I think this really sums her up very nicely >> is it was said by her friends that Judy
was very sociable and very much the life of the party after hours but she was incredibly responsible. She was never
late to school, never missed school, never missed work, never late to work. She was topnotch gogetter during the day
and sociable in the evening time. So again, a short walk by herself the middle of the night and a trip that she
had done on foot several times. She was also known to ride a bicycle around on campus and the bike is mentioned
throughout our story and will be mentioned throughout our story, but it was never mentioned. And I could never
find any mention of this bicycle on the statement of how she was getting home that night. It's always been stated that
she was walking home that night. Now, Judy was wearing a curly red wig over her long dark hair.
She was wearing, I believe you say call it gaucho style jeans, a brown and yellow blouse, beige trench coat, brown
boots, and carrying a large white imitation leather shoulder bag. Okay, so the wig and her get up for that night.
She was out and she was partying with friends. So she was definitely playing dress up here that night. Later after
she was reported missing, several people would say that they saw her that night and Judy was dressed like a hooker.
These are their words. And I don't think that they mean that to paint Judy in any
kind of negative light here, Captain. Again, I believe she was just playing dress up that night. So maybe she was
telling people that she was dressing like a hooker that night. Well, in that style of jeans would have been popular
in the 70s. Think of a bell bottom, but instead of them being tight and then flaring out at
the bottom, they just they're just flaring out all over. >> They're flaring out all over, but they
kind of look like bell bottoms at the at the bottom. >> And that's a good description. And
another good description is that when we say or she said or her friend said she was dressed like a hooker that night,
this is not like the movie Pretty Woman street walker type clothing stuff that is very revealing. This is basically
funnyl looking jeans and a button-up shirt. >> Mhm. >> The following day, Judy was supposed to
travel home to Avon Lake to get her new car. when she didn't come home or didn't
call home by that Friday, Dolores, her mother, called Judy's room every hour without success.
>> Yeah. So, she was supposed to go back to pick up her car, but she was going to go
on a trip. >> Yeah. So, that is one thing that I wanted to jump in here with on that
story, right? Because this is one of the confusing portions of the story. Let me
finish up the next two sentences of this article real quick. This is again is from the information from the Columbus
Dispatch. It says a fellow student officially reported Judy missing on May 26th. Please note that date, May 26th,
which is would be 2 days after the last sighting or supposed last sighting of Judy. When her room was searched,
nothing was missing. So, she left behind her glasses, clothing, books, and cosmetics. Now, back to the
double story there of picking up the car andor going on a trip. So, again, Captain, I found this to be a little
troubling. The how the how it was noticed that Judy was missing because I've seen these two different stories or
different versions of what Judy was supposed to be doing on the 24th or the 25th. And this was one of my questions
when I met with one of the law enforcement agencies still investigating Judy's case. So there's some good news there,
right? This case is still very active. >> Mhm. >> You mentioned a trip to New York. So
there was two stories. One that she's going home to pick up a car. The other story is she was going with two of her
friends from Kent State to go to out of state to go to New York. And I asked law
enforcement since we know that Judy didn't have a car on campus. She rode that bike most places. And her family
says her family's words were that she was returning home to get her car or a new car. So my question
for law enforcement was, well, who was going to drive her to get to Avon Lake to retrieve that vehicle? because
obviously I think that would be my number one suspect because whoever that was was not the same person that
reported her missing to my knowledge. Now the Memorial Day weekend was coming up and Judy Martins had planned a trip
to New York with two friends and I believe some of the confusion here is possibly that maybe both stories are
accurate that she would be doing both as we are talking about having five or six
days when she could achieve both of these events. >> Yeah. So, possibly my schedule's lighter
at this point. Let me go pick up my car. I'll bring it back to campus and then when we go on the road trip, we're going
to take my vehicle. >> Yeah, cuz what I was told was no. Uh, we didn't have any information that she was
coming home. But again, the article in the dispatch, those are the family's words. So that portion there has to be
some truth to that to me. And then the law enforcement version is that New York trip has always been something that they
were they were investigating. The thing here though, we need to remind the listeners that are not familiar with the
state of Ohio. We're talking about an hour and 15 to maybe an hour and 30 minute drive from the college campus to
Avon Lake. So, this is something that she would, if she was going to go home, she would need someone to drive her
there. Now, we have Judy's siblings weighing in in the article and saying wearing contact lenses when she
vanished. They say, "No way would she have left her eyeglasses behind." This is Steve Martins, her younger brother,
and saying that she rarely went anywhere without makeup, according to her sister.
So remember, it was quickly and easily determined that nothing was missing from Judy's dorm room, leaving behind her
glasses, clothing, books, and cosmetics. Now, anywhere you would see Judy's case, you will
absolutely see this portion of the case information repeated, as there were several outside sources that would later
say Judy left on her own. The family says no. Her family says no and I say no, but we will examine the mysterious
details of those claims as our case unfolds. >> Okay. So, she's at this party. And when
we say party, loose terms, right? Cuz there it wasn't like there was hundreds of people there. She was in another dorm
having a couple drinks with people and hanging out there. >> Correct. And I think to call it a party
really is is something that just confuses the matter a little bit more. I I would not describe any of these goings
on to be any type of party. They may have had a drink or two and and may have called it that. Or maybe she went to the
dorm thinking she was going to a party and it was just as you said hanging out with a couple of people. It was a little
bit of uh room jumping or or going from dorm to dorm. And we have some more details on that. Now, the article goes
on and says the week after she goes missing, her family, the Martin family, had a sitdown meeting with Kent State
President Brad Golding. And they say that they left this meeting unimpressed. Judy's sister Nancy said she believes
that the university was still rebuilding its reputation after the May 4, 1970 incident and didn't want any type of
negative PR about their college campus or their college. >> Right. >> And Steve Martins agrees, saying, quote,
"What was disappointing was the way that the investigation played out. The university didn't want a whole lot of
press." End quote. And we've talked about this with Brian Schaefer's case, but >> it's more obvious here, isn't it?
>> No. Well, no, because it's a different time period. Obviously, back then, they're going, "Hey, we don't want if we
talk about this too much, we're going to get more newspapers. We don't want the big newspapers to talk about this." In
Brian Schaefer's case, when you looked up medical student missing Ohio State, it was flooded with the first few pages
of Google. That's all you could find. >> Within a few days, once you >> typed in Ohio State student missing,
>> it didn't show up. >> The university was able to bury it in Google searches. And so, just look, if
you're in a state and you hear about a college student going missing, Google it and you'll find within a week that
university has took control of the Google searches to make sure that those stories get buried. So, when
Johnny from Iowa gets a letter saying he can go to the Ohio State University, they want to make sure when that parent
Googles or searches for the Ohio State University, that something from the actual university pops up.
>> Well, yeah, your kid's going to go off and be living elsewhere for the first time, not under your roof. You don't
want mom and dad or mom or dad separately or together. don't want to send, you know, their their little their
young their daughter or their son off to what they believe might be a dangerous place,
>> right? And if the first thing that they Google about that college is missing or
murder, >> then some red flags get thrown up there. Arthur and Dolores, speaking of parents,
uh the Martins kept faith, according to this article, kept total faith in the police, Nancy said, and never hired a
private investigator because they thought it would make the police upset. Nancy believes investigators assumed
Judy left on her own and broke contact with the family. >> That's a mistake. I'm going to say this.
I'll base my reputation on this. you have a missing person case, immediately hire a private investigator. But you're
not trying to hinder the investigation at all. You're just going to be doing your due diligence.
>> And the thing here in this case, Captain, I see a situation where the case got hindered, the investigation got
messed up very early on, and it became a confusing and complicated case very early on, unnecessarily. like there were
steps that could have been made that that would have made this investigation a little easier. And speaking of which,
let's dive into the investigation and search for Judy. Because Judy leaving a party at 2 or 2:30 a.m. to walk a short
distance home and never making it there is obviously not the whole story. There is much much more detail to it than
that. But the investigation really was just a poorly conducted investigation from the beginning. And this was for
several reasons. The first was this was really an uphill climb in my opinion for
the Kent State Police because years later, and this would have been uh from information I found from 1983, so 5
years after she went missing, we have uh Kent State Police Chief Robert Malone saying on record, "This is
the only case that we have had at Kent State of a missing person who could not be accounted for he says I know it's the
only one since 1973 when I came on board. So now a 10-year span 73 to 83 according to Robert Malone. Now we need
to keep in mind Robert Malone was not the police chief in 78 when when Judy went missing. But he goes on to say with
17,000 students we get a lot of missing persons reports here but there always seems to be an explanation. So, think
about that 10-year period when this man has worked there, 17,000 students. We get a lot of missing persons reports.
She's the only one in 10 years that we couldn't find out where she went or what happened to her. So, what happened to
Judy on the night of May 24th, 1978 when Judy apparently left a party at Dunar Hall on her way home to Engelman Hall.
First, Judy lived alone, so that caused a delay to report her missing. She was missing and unaccounted for, but just no
one knew. So, she was not reported missing until the 26th. So, that's 2 days. Now, local police
went to Judy's dorm and they find everything as it should be. Nothing's missing. No sign of foul play, no sign
of a struggle, no forced entry. In fact, there are a lot of theories out there in
this case, but I could not find one single source. I spoke to three different people that know this case
better than anyone else. No source says that Judy returned to her dorm that night. No case expert says that she made
it home that night. And I could not find anything to suggest that she, in my opinion, made it home that night after
going out. So, whatever happened to Judy that night, it looks like it happened sometime after
this party and before she could arrive at her dorm. She's not reported missing for 2 days and then her family is
notified after she's reported missing. Judy's mom says she was calling Judy's dorm often looking for her. So, at least
we have the night in question narrowed down to a matter of a couple of hours. >> Yeah. And captain, I would put that
window of time when something went down, something bad happened to Judy between 11:00 p.m. on the 23rd and maybe as late
as 3:00 a.m. on the 24th. So, some additional issues with the initial investigation. As we said, the Memorial
Day long weekend, yeah, >> was the weekend after she went missing. Most of the students have left the
campus by the time police start looking into this. So, they have no one to question or they're missing a lot of the
people that they could question and not really anyone to help fill in the blanks
here within the first couple of days. And they just didn't take it seriously at first. And look, often we all become
products of our environment. and the environment at Kent State in the late 70s, according to the police chief, said
that they were receiving two missing person's cases a week on average. And in every case up to Judy's case, the person
was accounted for within hours or days of the report. So, you can almost see how the police themselves fall victim to
this environment. And the police likely thought that this would be the case here
as well. Usually someone turns up, they stayed with a boyfriend or a girlfriend or they went home back home
unexpectedly. Now regardless, because think about how many missing person's cases turn into
homicide cases, right? >> Right. Well, your homicide investigation will go much better if you are not
starting from scratch once you figure it out or decide that it is in fact a homicide case rather than a missing
person's case. So, what sort of things can one do? Well, it's interviewing persons and properly recording their
statements. You can take photographs of her dorm and belongings. Take photographs of all of the last known
places she is believed to have been and photos of the people she was with. Did any of them have any noticeable
scratches or injuries? None of that happened in this case. So, really, this is just an allout difficult situation.
for the investigation as we can view it 40 years later. And to make matters worse, according to Kent State, they
lost or destroyed the case file. >> That's awesome. >> This is due to some [ __ ] records
protocol. >> Hey, now >> and it's believed in the year 2000 that they got rid of the file
>> in the year 2000. Now, sometimes too in these older cases, Captain, you find that the lead detective took the file
home or the police chief took the file home, but for whatever reason, when the case was being looked at again, and this
would have been in the last 10 to maybe 15 years, when they were looking at this
case again by a different agency other than Kent State Police, well, that's when they learned that the Kent State
Police file no longer exist on this case. But some smart people did do some smart moves. One, Judy was reported
missing in two jurisdictions, right? She was reported missing where she was going
to school. And two, she was reported where she was from. So, she's reported missing in Avon Lake as well. So, Avon
Lake was investigating this case as well. And they had a file of their own that in air quotes survived. And we
managed to get a copy of the file that still [music] exists. [music] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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>> Cheers to you, Captain. Cheers to all the fine fine people out there. So the investigative timeline as laid out in
the police file is as follows. And it's going to start as early as late April or
early May. And that's their exact statement here that in late April or early May of 1978,
Jim Young visits Judy at KSU. They are intimate per Jim. Jim Young is or was Judy's longtime on again and
off-again boyfriend. He was considered a suspect in this case. Now, we need to note that Jim is Judy's boyfriend from
Avon Lake, not Kent State. He does not attend Kent State. >> Right. >> He says their breakup was pretty much
mutual and it basically involved that they didn't see each other very much. They lived in two different locations
and so they both agreed to break up. It sounded like that Judy had some other concerns. Maybe Jim partied too much or
drank too much. But according to Jim, the breakup was mutual. And I couldn't really find any family or friends to
go against that idea that the makeup the breakup was mutual. >> Yeah. But just because it's mutual at at
one time doesn't mean it stayed that way. He did say that he would visit her on occasion at Kent State and when she
was home on break or during the summertime, the two of them would hang out. This is probably
information backing up the idea that everybody puts forward that they were on again, off again. Well, and also because
she's resident staff, that means she has her own room and she would have been basically the hall monitor for her floor
or a section of her floor. So, it it does suck that we don't have a roommate that is able to back up Jim's claims.
What we do have though, I I want to kind of go out of my way to point this out, is it sounds to me, Captain, like her
family, her her remaining family and the friends that she had at the time >> Mhm.
>> are backing up to police what this young man was saying. Now, we should though
make mental note of two things. One, his name, because we're going to be going through different names and different
people during this timeline. But we should also make mental note that he was considered a suspect very early
on in this case. So the things that he says or suspicions around him as you're pointing out, Captain, are important to
this story. >> But this brings us to May 19th. Now this will be the last day that Judy's mother
talks to her daughter on the phone. >> And then we have May 23rd. So note she disappeared on either the 23rd or 24th.
This is the last time that Jim Young, the former boyfriend or John Young, says that he talked with Judy on the phone.
Now, at 1:00, 1:00 p.m. approximately that afternoon, James Kratchic reports seeing Judy in
the Apprentice Hall cafeteria sitting with a another student named Kevin Greer. Greer states that they were
sitting and eating with Steve. uh another classmate named Steve, no last name given, and that Kratchic borrowed
coupons or meal tickets at this time from Judy. Judy told him to pay her back as she would be needing them by the end
of the year. I do want to point this out like this is just another one of those little tidbits, one of those little
indicators along the way that she was making plans. She probably wasn't planning on taking off
>> or at least a statement of, "Hey, yeah, I'll give you a meal ticket or two to
cover you for today, but I need these back before the end of the year." >> Well, it's similar like with the Brian
Shaver case. A lot of people go, "Well, why would Brian go missing from a bar?" When you look at the Judy
Martins case, okay, she leaves this party, let's say roughly around 2, but nobody was in her dorm room for multiple
days. Correct. >> So, we don't know if she made it back to her dorm room. So, maybe she made it
back. And maybe on her answer machine, if there was one, she had a message from some guy that she had a crush on it that
said, "Come out to California." And she decided to leave without a car. But we don't know that. All we know is that
there wasn't really anything disturbed in her dorm room. >> Right. And just pointing out that
there's nothing to indicate up to this point that she wasn't planning on doing anything other than attending school for
the remainder of the year. >> Right. So, this brings us to about 300 p.m. that day when Judy leaves a note for
Charles Neville in his room. And the note says that she stopped by when he was not there. Now, I'm not certain
here, Captain, but from what I gather, Charles is a popular dude and may have been considered quite the catch back
then. >> So, I'm not sure if they were just friends or if there was something there.
But according to the investigation, she dropped by roughly around 300 p.m. that afternoon, leaving a note for Charles.
That evening, Judy goes to dinner with one of her good friends, and her name is Robin. After dinner, this is
approximately 8:30 p.m., Judy leaves her friend Michelle Morgan's room, telling her that she was going to see Charles
Neville. She said she might stop back at the room after leaving Charles's place.
Now, Charles lives in the dorm rooms, as almost everybody that we're going to be
mentioning did at the time, >> right? Kent State, for example, is not a highly commuted college. A lot of a good
majority of the students live on campus. At approximately 11 p.m., this is where
I think I really start to call things into question, but this is the information that the police have
collected over the years. At approximately 11 p.m., Judy leaves her friend Robin's room in Engleman Hall
dormatory. She tells her that she is going to Charles Neville's room. After that, Judy arrives at 233 Dunar Hall,
stays there with Charles Neville and John Beckany. This is in John's room. Judy removes the wig, sunglasses, and
trench coat at this time. Remember, she's playing dress up that night. Again, around 11 p.m. approximately.
This is per Kevin Greer, who we've already mentioned. Judy stops by to see if Bernie Caffrey would be there, but
he's not home. So, she talks to Bernie's roommate, Leo Robe, for a minute or two
and then goes to Charles Neville's room. Leo Robe says Judy was dressed quote like a hooker. Okay, so the important
thing here though to me, Captain, is now we have multiple independent witnesses placing our missing person in Dunar Hall
in the Dunar Hall building. >> This is the male dormatory. Yeah, this is a allmale dormatory.
>> So, that doesn't seem to be really in question, right? We can question what was going on or how things went down
after this, but it's not a question that she was there in that building at 11:00
and a little bit afterwards. >> Yeah. But here's what we don't know is we we're getting this information from
Robin, right? >> No, this information is coming from all kinds of different sources, independent
sources. So these this is statements from Charles, from Robin, from James. Every person that we've mentioned so far
on the 23rd, all this information is coming from them. >> Yeah, but if you That's why you should
let somebody finish talking. But this information is coming from Robin. It's coming from Charles, right? What we
don't know is what were Charles initial statements. I'd be interested to know that. I'd be interested to know if they
said, "Hey, well, we we believe that she visited you on the night she went missing." And he said, "Uh, I don't
remember." Or, "Uh, no, I don't think she did." And then they got information from Robin and said, "Hey, well, we got
information from Robin that she headed towards your dorm." And then we got information from this other person that
she was here. And then he comes forward. You see what I'm saying? like we we know
what their statements are, but we don't know exactly how they got them. >> Yeah, that's that's cool. And the thing
here is it's not really them coming forward. >> You know, I I I know what you mean by
that, but I always kind of hate that statement, right? >> Because it sounds like they went
>> up and called the police station or knocked on the the front door and said, "Hey, I got a story to tell." This is
Kent State police going around and asking people, did you see anything on the 23rd? Did you see anything on the
24th? And you're right, we don't know the exact wording of questions that were first fired at any of these individuals,
but from my understanding and the way that the information that we received reads to me is that these are all their
initial statements when first asked about that night. And if anything changed when they were
questioned at a later date, >> right, >> it's noted in the information as well. But also what's interesting too is we
have this isolated space that you would think and and we were kind of talking about this off air
before we started recording was this is 78 smoking in the 70s. You could smoke in the hospital buildings. Not all
hospitals but a lot of them you could. >> You were smoking in a lot of the schools. So I if I had to bet make a
wager here, I would put my money on smoking was allowed in the dorms. >> Yes. And and I think that becomes a big
key here because if it wasn't allowed, but there were still a lot of smokers that you would have a a gathering
outside of the male dorm room, even though it'd be late, but you know, college students stay up pretty late. So
there I think there would have been more eyewitnesses. So if somebody would say,
"Hey, there was smoking in the dorm rooms." I go, "Well, there's probably not going to be a bunch of people
gathered outside or less people gathered outside to be eyewitnesses once she left
the allmale dorm rooms." >> Well, smoking or non-smoking aside, you're really hitting on something I
think that's important here, Captain. You're right. This is May. It was a warm night that night. She wasn't the only
one going out and having a good time that night. There's a lot of people going out and having a good time that
night. And who knows how late they stayed up. We know that there was not much schooling or academic activity that
was going to be taking place over the next several days. So, this was a time to kind of let loose. And if you were
going to stay up or stay out till 3:00 or 4 in the morning, this sounds to me like this was a good night to do it. At
approximately midnight, John Beckany, who we've mentioned already, says that he knocks on Charles Neville's door. He
and a friend are going to the 711. For those that don't know what a 7-Eleven is, it's a like a little convenience
store, little gas station. >> Also, people know it as heaven. >> There you go. Beckany returns the wig,
sunglasses, and coat to Judy at this time. Per his statement. Beckany reports that Judy is in quote good mental and
physical condition at this time. May 24th at approximately 2:30 a.m. Charles Neville says that this is the time that
Judy leaves his room. Now, a weird note in our timeline, and there are going to be several of these as we get further
from her disappearance, but this is the first one, and this takes place on May 24th. So, by all of the stories, the
information that we've received and every story out there, she goes missing sometime after leaving that male
dormatory at 2:30 a.m. >> Right. This brings us to 1:30 p.m. on that same day. So, if all those stories
are right, she's already missing, just not reported missing at this time. >> Right.
>> We have another individual who is named David Horning. David says or reports to
police and this is where I think it's appropriate to say comes forward. It sounds like this man came forward and
reports seeing a girl who matched Judy's description and clothing at the bus stop
near a sandwich shop. He says a large yellow car pulled near the stop and the girl either got in or was pulled in. He
was not sure. The car then abruptly pulled from the curb and went to the far left lane. It was then heading westbound
on Route 59. >> And I'm not saying that this individual is lying whatsoever, but it's not clear that he's stating
that he knew her before she went missing. >> Right? >> There's a guy that came forward after
when they're going, "Hey, we're looking for this girl." He goes, "Well, I saw a girl that looks similar. I would hold a
lot more weight to this eyewitness if he said,"I friends with her. I'm friends with Judy."
>> Yeah. >> And I saw her get into a car. Then at that point, what do we know? What we
know is that she went back to her dorm. She probably felt, you know, she slept in her own bed. The next day she took
off with somebody around 100 p.m. 1:30 p.m. But this guy doesn't know her. He's not friends with her. So he's going,
"Eh, well, she looked like the similar person." And so we have no clue if she ever made it back to her dorm room.
Well, and one thing that's really tricky in this case here, and again, I mean, we
can keep circling around this, but but I've not seen any information to suggest that she ever made it home that night
ever anywhere by by any of the investigating agencies, any of her friends or family. No one's That seems
to be one of the furthest things from speculation. Well, and I remember at some point, and I could be wrong, but
some of my buddies would live in like a all male dorm, and then you'd have the all female dorm and then you have a
co-ed dorm. But some of the dorms you actually had to sign in even though like you live there, like you had to sign in
because it was past like midnight and they didn't have maybe somebody on guard to see who was coming into the
buildings. >> Yeah. And that is very smart of you because that's one thing I was thinking
as well like would would there be a curfew because this was during the week. Would there be a curfew to get in or or
would you at least have to sign in or sign out? And what I was told, now again, we're being told this 40 years
later, so we can't hop in the Delorean and and know 100%. But from what I was told was that it was a pretty casual,
laid-back atmosphere on campus that year and maybe even years after that. I don't
know if her going missing changed some of that. Here becomes the problem with her going missing was like I said she's
basically like the chaperone on her floor. So she would she would be one of those individuals if some other girl
went missing on her floor. They'd be going right to her, >> right? >> Right to Judy and saying, "Hey, what did
you see? What do you know? Can you talk to these other girls?" Well, not only that, if there were someone to get away
with not signing in, she would be able to do that, >> right? >> The uh statement about this this young
man seeing somebody matching Judy's description either getting into a vehicle or maybe she was pulled in. He
doesn't know for certain. As you pointed out, Captain, you're very right. He's coming forward after the, you know, he's
seeing missing person's flyers. And one thing that that I thought was amazing about this case, you know, we always
have these little very unique details in each one of these cases, you would think
that at some point here in the garage after you've covered several hundreds of cases that at some point they just start
becoming carbon copies of one another where in Judy's case, it was interesting to me that the story on the surface is
very similar to Brian Schaers. But then here we have this interesting unique portion to her case where she's playing
dress up the night that she goes missing. >> How freaking weird is that? So >> they all become an amalgamation of like
a bunch of different cases. >> So she when he says the the statement in the police file is
someone matching or someone matched Judy's description that this vehicle which description is it? Is it the
description of her playing dress up that night? >> That's a great point. >> Or is it the description of her? Because
she she looks very different that night than she does the rest of the days. And that is one thing that I found bizarre
about this case because some of the missing person's flyers only had the picture from her from that night where
she's wearing a freaking wig, you know? Like I mean this is a young beautiful college student
>> and she looks quite a bit different. >> She looks quite a bit different in in
both of those images to me. That's my opinion. >> And we'll post all those photos on
social media. So follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. True Crime Garage if you want to see those photos.
The missing person's flyers in this case that I liked the best or that I thought
carried the most weight were the ones that had a a recent photo of her as she would regularly look and a photo from
that night because I think it's crucial here when you're looking for someone. This is how she looks when she's not in
her little disguise or playing dress up that night. But these are the items that
we expect to be with her or items that we might want to find because we can't locate her.
>> Well, and like you said, in her dorm, there's no wig, there's no glasses, >> no fake leather purse,
>> right? >> To me, that's more evidence that I can lean towards the fact that she never
made it back to her dorm, >> right? She's wearing contacts at night. She's wearing sunglasses. None of those
things are ever found in in her dorm. Now, it's 2 days later, as we said earlier, but it's at 4:35 p.m. when the
actual missing person's report is filed by a Michelle Shabbat, I believe, is how
you say her last name. I probably got that wrong. The report was taken by Detective Brandon of the Kansas
The Detective Brandon of Kent State uh University PD. The then Judy is reported missing to Avon Lake PD at about the
same time. This is a weird part to the case as well. May 27th, the day after she's
reported missing, Judy's camera is secured. This is by the Kent State PD. They obtain her camera. Pictures show
how Judy was dressed that night. So, this is interesting because we have the photos of Judy from the night that she
went missing. So, how she looked that night and what she was wearing, the wig and all that. And what is missing from
the police information here though, Captain is, and this is really anyone's guess,
where and from whom did they get the camera? again, you know, we everything we have says
that she didn't come home that night. So, did she leave this camera with one of her female friends or a male friend
after dinner or was it recovered from, you know, a female friend's dorm or a male friend dormatory room?
>> Well, like >> we just don't know. It's it's it's an answer that I would love to have.
>> Yes. And I think there's a couple things. one. It could have been her dorm room or it could have been when she left
her wig and and other items in that other kids dorm room and he returned those items.
>> Mhm. >> Maybe he just didn't notice that she had a camera there. Um, and here's why I
question that it could be from her dorm room. Is it is it possible that she had this outfit,
took some pictures of her in this outfit at some point in time, and then just went, "Hey, I'm going out
to have fun tonight, have a couple drinks with my buddies before I go on this trip, and I'm going
to put on my zany outfit." >> Right. I'm with you. I think that from the information that I've seen, it
sounds to me like there's a a high probability this wasn't the first time that she wore that outfit or the wig or
some version of such. But the other thing, too, is we know she was back at her dorm building after dinner hanging
out with different friends that she didn't go to dinner with. So, when we say she didn't go back to her dorm that
night, I really want to underline and echo what we were saying earlier that I mean that that once she went to the male
dorm building that she didn't go back to her dorm that night. I believe that after dinner she probably went back
there because we know she was in the building. So, why not stop by her own place if you need anything? or
>> yes, >> she may have dropped off her camera at that time, not wanting to carry it
around, already taking pictures of her and her friend hanging out before, during, or after dinner.
>> That's a very good point. And also, maybe it's part of her responsibilities to then go and check on her floor and
make sure there's nobody reporting anything because that's part of their job. I mean, I I believe like
I believe they actually get paid to do that. >> Well, on the following day, on the 27th,
Judy is officially entered as a missing person. So, this is technically now 3 days after she's gone missing. The
county jail, the hospital, and campus health center are all contacted to see if she would be there for any reason at
all. And of course, they received negative results. uh friends Michelle and Robin. So, this
is the one friend that reported her missing, the one friend that went to dinner with her that night, and Judy's
mom along with Sergeant Hunt of the Avon Lake Police Department. On the 27th, they have like a group
call, a group phone call that goes to Kent State PD and they basically ask what the f is going on in the
investigation. And my guess here is because they probably don't think that KSPD is doing anything or actively
investigating the missing person's case that they think it's just another person
that will turn up in a few hours or a couple days. >> Well, no. And you see this look, we
always talk about, oh, this happened in a small town and this this law enforcement agency is not equipped to
handle this, right? >> Mhm. Well, that's what a campus is, is a small town. And yes, Kent State Police
will know more about the nooks and crannies of their little community than state police or the local law
enforcement, but they're not equipped to handle a missing person case like this. Like once
you don't find her, and I'm not even saying the 24-hour rule. I'd say on a campus, you don't
find an individual in 12 hours. This needs to be handed over to the big boys. >> Well, this is when uh Judy's mother says
that she is going to call the media. And I don't I imagine this is like a threat
of hey, I don't think you're doing enough or doing anything and we're not it's not gone unnoticed by us. And ask
yourself this question. If you were questioned by Kent State Police or the sheriff department, which one are
you going to be more intimidated by? >> In this case, it would be the sheriff's department.
>> You know what I mean? It's like there's a lot of people when they're on campuses, they don't take even though
they have what they are calling a police department and they can arrest you, people don't take them as serious. They
look at them more as like security guards than they do police officers. >> Look, most of their work is going to be
busting up underage drinking parties or breaking up drinking parties, especially
back in the late '7s, catching people smoking pot, smoking doobies, >> um that kind of stuff. So, you're right.
You're absolutely right on that. Now, we said that there are going to be some weird things in the timeline. And here's
another strange one. On May 30th, time unknown, there's no time mentioned here. Um, I imagine this is a person coming
forward after the fact, after they witnessed this, Deborah Helmik claims to have seen Judy on Merill Circle near
Engelman. And that's as far as that statement goes. Uh again on May 30th, this is at approximately 900 pm, Bill
Jones, a resident of College Towers, says that he saw a tall girl with long dark hair being led out of the main door
of the complex by two males. He said that the female seemed spaced out and heard her saying, quote, "I haven't been
home since Tuesday." >> But she wasn't all that tall. >> Yeah, you're you're right. 5'4.
>> I would not consider that to be tall. >> Correct. And again, I think with some of
these sightings of Judy, what I think we need to keep in mind is I don't think I
think that they're seeing young ladies that look similar. They're just not seeing Judy. And I think that these are
just people that are, you know, they see a missing person's flyer and they're trying to help. you know, I I saw this
and it's probably nothing, but I want to make sure that I at least report it to the proper authorities.
>> And what did you call them? Groucho pants. Is that what they're called? >> I No, I called them gaucho pants. And I
don't know if that's correct. >> They're probably not called Groucho pants. Uh, but I also wonder because if
somebody said to me, "Oh, well, this guy went missing and he had a navy blue hoodie." And then three days later I'm
like, "Oh, I saw this guy with a navy navy blue hoodie, but he wasn't he wasn't shorter. He was a little bit
taller." I would report it like or I feel like I had to because he had a similar item. And like I said, these
were kind of these were popular pants at the time. So I wonder if there was some
sightings just based off her clothing. Oh, I saw a girl with, you know, a flannel shirt and in these uh gaucho
pants. >> On May 30th, again, no time given for this one, Jim Young, the former boyfriend, is contacted. He agrees to an
interview and is told to make an appointment ASAP with a detective. At 2 p.m. on that same day, an attempt
to interview Charles Neville is made, but he isn't in his room. Detective Stanley instead finds John Beckany, who
he then interviewed. Also on May 30th, officers interview Bernie Caffrey in the hallway.
At 3:30 p.m. on the same day, officers go to Jim Kratchic's room. They they rein him. Officers state it takes
several minutes for him to answer or open the door. The officers requested to go into the room for privacy purposes
and find an unidentified female in his room. He repeats that he last saw Judy at 11:30 to 12:30 on May 23rd 24th along
with Kevin Greer. >> Well, we know why it took him so long to answer the door >> and put his pants back on. Also on the
30th, Captain, this is at 4:45. Officers stopped by Charles Neville's room. Remember, we already mentioned
that they went there to speak with him again earlier that day. They don't find him. He's not home. And they speak to
Bernie Cafrey and Jim Cratchet in the meantime. So, now they're going to circle back to talk with Charles Neville
again. He is home at this time at 4:45. They enter Charles's room again. They probably asked if they could come in for
privacy purposes, privacy of the questions that they're going to ask. And they don't want, right, when you're
interviewing people that may have been the last person or one of the last people to see a missing person, you
don't want their story being broadcast to everybody else now, do you? >> No. >> So, they're in Charles's room and
officers stated that he repeated the same story that he told another detective. So, this would be the second
time that they spoke with him per this statement. >> Mhm. And they said that Charles during
this visit speaks with his mother and his brother. Of course, this is going to be via phone. I believe that his mother
and brother are not only in another state, but I believe that they are in two different states themselves. He
states that his brother is an attorney at the time or will be an attorney soon. And after speaking with his family, he
agrees to a polygraph test with the uh police department. And Charles was read his rights at that time and given a
statement form. And he stated that he would complete these later as he was cooking dinner. So
he agrees to the polygraph, but it's not going to be administered right then. Obviously, they're in his room. They
give him a statement form to fill out. This would be like what's your official statement, right? write it out and sign
it. This is kind of your sworn statement, >> right? Basically, we know you've talked
to the detectives, but now we want you to write down that same story. >> And here we go with back to the old
casual atmosphere of the campus. We have a missing person. Here's your statement
form that I need you to fill out, but it's okay if you get to it later. >> Right.
>> Right. Like, we don't want you to burn your dinner here, Charles, >> or your dong. Why don't you finish
cooking, have your dinner, have a nice night, and give us a call when you've completed the form.
>> And my problem with this is he's a person of interest because we're talking about what's happening 2 days after she
possibly goes missing. >> What we do know is that she went out to dinner with a friend, Robin. They she
comes back. She's in her her dorm building. We know that because we have two different individuals stating that
they spoke with her there at that building and these are two people that didn't go to dinner with her.
>> Yeah. So, is it possible that she stopped by her room to freshen up or or to change clothes or to grab something
and then head over to this Charles guy's dorm and in the And look, anybody that's
been a part of dorm life when you're going to go visit with somebody, you could just be walking past a room and
somebody pops out cuz they they spot you. Hey, what's up, Captain? What are you doing? And you sit there and talk to
them for a while. or you pass a couple people that you are in class with and you go, "Hey, did you get homework done
for the day or whatever." So, she runs into some other people. So, we know she's in the all male dorm room and then
we know that at some point she's in Charles's room. We know at some point she's in somebody else's room and then
she goes back to Charles's room. >> Yep. And this is per Charles Neville and per these other individuals as well. And
and those were the good old days when you just open up the door to your room and on a night where there's a lot of
activity and people out and about, you never know who's going to drop in, who you're going to see, or when a party's
going to bust out in your place. >> Yeah. Until you, you know, you get labeled icky flicky flicky and nobody wants to
talk to you anymore. So again, she's in the male dorm room. We don't have anybody that places her back into her
dorm. We don't have anybody that places her outside heading towards her dorm room. So look th these individuals
Charles, John, Jim, Bernie, and Kevin, they all become persons of interest, and we need to know if their stories line up
or if any of them have any nefarious background. I think those that's the starting point of the investigation, but
like you said, they're already going about it in such a such a lacadasical manner.
>> And to top that off here, Captain, that will not be this will not be the end of
the weird activities or the strange events that will take place in this timeline.
[music] >> [music] >> So much more to get to. To check out our blog, [music] go to true crimegar.com
and please join us back here tomorrow in the garage. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't [music] litter.
>> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Hello, I'm Osmpic and I'm other GLP ones kind of like him. Hey, are you shaking a
Morocco? Nope, I'm shaking the pill version of Ozmpic, which no one should ever do except in ads like this.
>> Oh, nice disclaimer. >> Hey, thanks. Ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of the Ompic pen or
pill may be right for you. Call 1833 Ompic or visit ompic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about
Ozmpic simaglatide tablets 9 millig and Ompic simaglletide injection 2 millig. There's a pill [music] version of those
bake.

Missing on Campus /// Judy Martins /// Part 1

Part 1 of 2

This week in the Garage, we take an in-depth look at the longstanding disappearance of Kent State University student Judy Martins.

Although many years have passed since Judy was last seen, her case remains active and continues to be investigated by law enforcement agencies. Judy was 22 years old at the time of her disappearance, and investigators are still seeking information that could help determine what happened to her and provide answers to those who knew and loved her.

Cases such as Judy’s are never truly forgotten. Even the smallest detail, memory, or piece of information may be significant and could assist investigators in moving the case forward.

Anyone with information regarding the disappearance of Judy Martins is encouraged to contact the U.S. Marshals Service at 1-866-4-WANTED or 1-866-492-6833. All information may be important.

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

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Brief Summary

Judy Martins, a Kent State student, vanished in 1978 after leaving a party; her case remains unsolved and raises questions about the investigation.

Key points

The Case of the Missing Reese's. A humorous take on a true crime podcast's lighthearted intro.
Judy Martins Disappears. A promising college student vanishes after a night out, leaving behind unanswered questions.
Investigation Complications. The investigation into Judy's disappearance faced numerous challenges from the start.
The Only Missing Person Case. Judy is the only missing person case at Kent State in a decade.
Lost Case Files. The investigation faces challenges due to lost or destroyed case files.
Timeline of Events. Judy's last known movements are documented, leading up to her disappearance.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

One night he walked into a bar and 15 years go by...

Describing the mysterious disappearance of Brian Schaefer.

5:40WatchJul 8, 2026

Tension

50/ 100Some tension

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