Michele Neurauter | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is morbid [Music] and it's orbit in the morning
we've been doing a lot of morbid in the afternoon oh I liked that yeah so it was kind of
like the song where it's like it's snowing in the afternoon you rise through the sea eyes of the
Moon I do know that you can because you did so you do feeling so good I love the emo of it all
it's so fun I love it one time I was gonna go to an emo night but then it got ruined
yay yay also that was Panic at the Disco right um I think maybe but I'm doubting it now
I think it is in the after yep your eyes are the size of the Moon you can because
you did so you do you think so God feel it just the way that you shod shod when it's nine in the afternoon but no it's
the morning here we are it's like nine in the morning oh damn it it's not anymore it's not but it would have been
great if it was a mahjong we should just say it is because I don't know why this
comes out but it'll be nine and then it'll be a nine in the afternoon somewhere Thursday like two weeks for me
I think I do no I will never understand it it's I feel like those the uh the like door guards and Labyrinth when he's
like I don't know I never understood it that's literally my permanent state of being yeah honestly saying that was also
a really good impression thank you I'm like holding in a little bit of a mouth noise right now I just had some
Alka-Seltzer Ash is feeling a little heart heart burning oh you turned 27 and then you just die it all goes to hell
honestly I woke up early and I got on my treadmill action this morning but then that moved things around and moves it
all around it makes it burn yeah and then I had like a nice like health breakfast but then I did see that you
had mini muffins for your children and I said ooh I happen to be one of those children so I ate a little mini muffin
and you would have thought that I ate a blazing bowl of fire you would have thought but now I had Alka-Seltzer so I
feel Alka-Seltzer for me works like right away that's good did you have you you've had heartburn right um I had it
when I was pregnant a little bit can you have Alka-Seltzer when you're pregnant I'm pretty sure you can I just did Tums
oh see Tums is it like redoes oh yeah it's it's a it's a solid thing yeah but it's it wasn't bad enough when I was
pregnant that I think it bothered me I think I also ate bread and it helped eating bread does help any excuse to eat
bread really yeah may I please have bed but yeah here we are here we go um yeah I have a really sad case today
obviously because you know you're listening to morbid yeah that's what you came for that's what you came for uh
this one is crazy and I I don't want to like give too much away so I'm just gonna kind of do like a cold start if
that's cool with you I'm fine with that all right so we're gonna be talking about the murder of Michelle Knight
Rider today okay um and she was previously Michelle Landy and she met her husband Lloyd Knight
Rider in 18 nope in 1980. oh I was like this is an old one yeah only you do this
yeah they met in 1989 okay which you know that's old-timey I guess all right no I'm just kidding yeah right but they
met when they were both in high school she was 18 and she was in her senior year and Lloyd was two years younger and
they became friends over time and then when Michelle graduated and she had her grad party that's when her parents
remembered meeting Lloyd for the first time and that's kind of when he started coming around more often okay because
after the party they started hanging out more and more and eventually really they
began dating their relationship kind of developed pretty quickly and even though Lloyd was
much younger like like giving their ages I feel like it's kind of more pronounced
I was gonna say that phase in life yeah exactly but even though he was younger Michelle felt like he was easy to talk
to he was smart and their conversations were never boring and that was something
she really liked about him yeah which like we love a good conversationalist so after Lloyd graduated from high
school in 1991 they did get married and then they went off to college well he went off to college the same one as
Michelle she had already gone she was already there yes but now he went into engineering and Michelle ended up
getting her degree in English and after college they continued on The Fast Track
and within a year of graduating Michelle was pregnant with their first kid and then quickly got pregnant with their
second child another daughter wow ultimately they would end up having three daughters but their second
daughter they named Carrie after Michelle's sister oh that's really sweet it's adorable why didn't Elena name one
of the children Ashley sorry so the family moved to a pretty big farmhouse in Corning in Upstate New York
Lloyd got a job working as an engineer with Corning and cooperated good job good job now the move kind of seemed
like a step in the right direction for the family but also at the same time the stress of moving and kind of like
starting a new job and everything so started to bring out some of Lloyd's you could say less attractive character
traits oh Michelle's Mother Genie had seen some of those qualities all along though she
told reporters he was arrogant from the beginning oh yeah she never really liked
Laura she wasn't into it she wasn't into it and she also was just like I don't really understand like what my daughter
sees in this guy which that's never good no but because she and her husband really respected their daughter they
kept their thoughts to themselves and the thing was they weren't the only people who felt like this so it wasn't
like well their standards are just yeah it was no other people felt this way too
Michelle's sister Carrie the one that her daughter was named after she started noticing things about Lloyd that made
her a little bit nervous like he had very very high very unreasonable expectations of his family she said he
would snap his fingers and they'd line up and they would stand there like little soldiers
I feel have you ever seen a family like that yeah and you're like oh yeah and you're just like I don't know about this
like that makes me nervous yeah yeah because that's not that to me like this the way it's being described here and
I'm just saying it's just my opinion that this feels more like um fear-based and not respect base yes kind of thing
like it's not just respect I want to listen to what you have to say it's like I'm scared not to and I would know I
don't want my kids to be no you don't want to be scared of you I actually remember one of my first business
classes I had this wicked good professor I forget his name though but he said um he was talking about like being in a
position of power and he was like had a whole discussion with us of would you rather be feared or respected and a lot
of people thought that you had to be feared to be respected and I was like no I don't think so that's it's not respect
that comes out of fear it's just fear those are very two very different things in my opinion exactly but to people a
little more removed like in the outside world Lloyd actually seemed like he was a doting father to them the people who
were removed they saw the dad that you know brought his kids to ballet class made sure they're they were all put
together you know but the cracks would be apparent to anybody who was paying close enough attention to see them a
family friend Mina Raj remembered there were times when I'd call my mom and tell
her that I was worried about or that I was worried about how strict of a disciplinarian he was it was sort of
like you never knew when he would snap and if he decided he was mad at one of them he would call them over yell front
and center oh come on like a little babes dude you're not this isn't the Army I think you're in like Full Metal Jacket
like get out of here it's too much so by the early to mid-2000s the Night Riders facade of a happy family was
definitely starting to slip Lloyd was still working at Corning but his job was about to make some Cuts because this was
right around the time like of the market crash yeah so the economy was suffering
and he probably kind of resented the fact that while his career was getting a little rock here Michelle's career had
actually taken off oh because once all three girls were in school Michelle decided that she wanted to go back to
school and pursue a graduate degree wow and actually eventually she took a job teaching English at one of the local
colleges and then a few years after that she had this blog called the professional family manager oh and her
blog was gaining popularity and took off oh wow it actually got nominated for a national award from Nickelodeon oh wow
yeah isn't that crazy so she was doing really really well yeah and her success only seemed to add to the difficulty
between her and Lloyd oh is he one of those that can't handle it that's the thing it's like I feel like it's your
partner isn't celebrating your success with you that's a problem something's wrong that's a big problem in my opinion
yeah because I can't imagine coming home to Drew and like telling him something exciting that happened and him being
like like annoying or like yeah being like annoyed by that yeah no that's not good like you should be able to
celebrate each other when you when one of you Rises you should be celebrating exactly but that was not the case here
Michelle's mom said that Lloyd would quote often put her down with a smile on his face
yeah so I do not like Lloyd none of us do now if Michelle's parents were concerned which it very much sounds like
they were they must have been really really worried when Michelle slowly started cutting them out she was kind of
backing away from them and by 2007 her relationship with them was non-existent oh no so the Mom figured that you know
Lloyd probably had something to do with the daughter cutting ties with the family but of course she couldn't really
know for sure yeah in 2020 she told CBS News I think that he threatened her either to harm the children or to harm
her jeez and Michelle's friend Cynthia Raj would later confirm that Genie's suspicions of Lloyd were actually spot
on she reiterated a conversation that she had with Michelle where Michelle told her it was Lloyd that made me cut
off contact with them and then Cynthia elaborated he didn't want her to have a place to go if she wanted to leave oh my
God this guy is really bad control control oh so in 2008 he did end up losing his job at Corning and a few
months later he ended up getting a different job offer from a company over in New Jersey so if he took that job it
would meant it would mean that they would have a lot more time apart which would be good which would be good which
is sad because usually when you have the salad family yeah the dynamic is like no
we don't want mom or dad to take this job yeah and like be away from us but this is like no go kind of seemed that
way now so the separation to Michelle she was like I think this is a good idea and I think she was kind of just
desperate for Time by herself to thrive because yeah she was thriving but she was probably quietly thriving exactly
and being tampered down all the time so it's like yeah like not wanting to piss him off yeah so I think she was like you
know what [ __ ] go for it so he took the job and the separation kind of proved itself to be something Lloyd
wanted to make permanent after years of being separated in 2013 he ended up filing for divorce wow I didn't see that
coming that's the thing I don't think a lot of people saw that coming I think they figured you know maybe Michelle
will get to that point eventually that's the thing I would have saw that but nobody saw it coming from Lloyd
especially not Michelle she obviously knew that their marriage wasn't the happiest marriage in the world yeah but
she was shocked and her attorney uh Susan bets Jita beer said I know I put a little phonetic in there for myself
she said Michelle was surprised that he had filed for divorce she had done everything she thought she could to do
to make him happy and the family happy which is sad that is so sad but apparently in the years that he and
Michelle spent away from one another Lloyd decided he really didn't have a lot of use for her anymore but what he
did want was Soul custody of their three daughters and Michelle's attorney explained just
how determined he was to get what he wanted this is insane the attorney said Lloyd was relentless in using the legal
system to harass Michelle it just never ended there were 26 separate sets of filings post-divorce are you kidding me
26. what isn't that insane wow so obviously during and after the divorce things became very bitter between them
but things were more contentious than usual with these like court dates going back and forth yeah and in his court
filings Lloyd accused Michelle of anything and everything he thought would get him full custody especially because
he didn't want to pay child support because he was in a lot of debt oh my God now Michelle on the other hand she
accused him of trying to turn their kids against her so not long after the divorce she ended up selling their
Farmhouse the family house that they lived in together and she moved into a smaller house and still in the same town
of Corning okay and their their oldest daughter actually ended up moving to New New Jersey to live with Lloyd and Carrie
and then the youngest daughter stayed with Michelle okay so Michelle has the middle child and the youngest child and
Lloyd has the oldest child okay so the divorce and the fighting between Michelle and Lloyd obviously took a
heavy toll on all of their kids all of these girls are like old enough to know what's going on of course and no matter
what like even if they're not like our bodies pick up on that you know yeah but everything seemed to show and carry the
most of all the middle child she was in her junior year of high school when her parents divorced so she was at the age
where kids usually distance themselves from their parents anyway but now she seemed to be avoiding her mom even more
than usual a family friend Rose coluccio I think is how you say it she said of their relationship it got more strained
as she approached her senior year eek yeah so by mid-2017 after just years and years and years of bitter custody fights
harassment abuse the whole nine Michelle was shocked when she had a court date with Lloyd and he was supposed to show
up and this court date was going to be addressing custody of their youngest daughter and he just didn't show up
what and she was like we've been doing this for like years like oh it sounds like almost 10 years like how are you
not they they divorced in 2013 now it's 2017. that's four years four years of this stuff and then all of a sudden he
just doesn't show up like what so weird so she texted her lawyer saying I'm in shock Lloyd did not show up for the
appearance for his petition for sole custody he did not withdraw he did not ask for an adjournment he did not answer
the court's phone calls emails nothing huh it seems like after all those years he had just given up and walked away but
Michelle's attorney was like freaked out by yeah she was like something's not right you don't fight that long and then
just give up no no and the attorney said it was very unusual it was Unthinkable really yeah that would concern me a lot
me too now since he didn't show up the case obviously was dismissed which left the youngest daughter in Michelle's
custody so Michelle was relieved that this you know seemed to mean that they were putting their worst years behind
them but at the same time she knew who she was dealing with yeah Lloyd's not gonna let this go no she knew that he
wasn't the type to back down until he got literally everything he thought he was owed so what I think is that she
probably was relieved and kind of trying to put the worry in the back of her mind
and just celebrate a small win yeah you know so by the summer of 2017 Carrie was a
sophomore at the Rochester Institute of Technology and she was living off campus
so that meant the youngest daughter was the only one still home with Michelle now on the afternoon of August 28 2017 a
family friend came by the house to pick up that youngest daughter for swim practice okay and almost immediately
this friend got the feeling that something was very wrong he knocked on the door to let Michelle and her
daughter know that he was there but nobody was coming to answer but even though through the window he saw what
looked like an adult standing in the stairway huh and the thing was Michelle and her daughter like either one of them
usually came to the door pretty quickly so the fact that somebody was just standing there on the stairs completely
motionless and like not moving and coming to the door or anything yeah was alarming
so he was freaked out and he was like I feel like I should call 9-1-1 like I don't know what's going on yeah so he
did call 9-1-1 he said got something strange happening at our friend's house I thought I saw the mother standing in
the stairway but she's motionless oh that's weird very weird so the Cornish police Sergeant John mcdivitt he was the
first to arrive at the scene and he also looked through the little pane of glass
in the front door and he could see what the family friend had described to 9-1-1
he said I could see a female laying at the bottom of the stairs and he also said he felt like something wasn't quite
right there well yeah if somebody's laying at the bottom of the stairs that's probably not great
definitely not good so he entered the house and he was immediately greeted by the family dog who came running when the
door was open but when mcdivin announced his presence nobody answered and the figure at the bottom of the stairs did
not move oh yeah he said as I got closer I could see there was a rope around her
neck there was no pulse she was cold and stiff to them oh my God it was Michelle
oh now as far as he could tell in that moment it looked like Michelle Knight Rider had hanged herself from a rope
tied to the banister at the top of the stairs oh my God but more importantly in that moment at least was the fact that
her daughter was supposed to be home the 14 year old daughter but now she was nowhere to be found oh no so they're
freaking out yeah so they quickly searched the house there's no child in sight there's also no suicide note which
they thought was bizarre so while crime scene technicians process the scene at the house the police began a search in
the area for the youngest Knight Rider Girl now after a few hours had gone by investigators got a call from Carrie the
middle daughter and she said she just heard the news about her mom and she wanted to let authorities know that
actually she had her younger sister and the younger sister was with her in Rochester okay almost a hundred miles
away from Corning okay and this family friend remember is picking up the youngest daughter for
swim practice yes so that's pretty much what investigators asked and through tears Carrie explained
why she had her sister according to her she had gone home to Corning on the afternoon of the 28th she wanted to
spend one last night with her mom before her semester started she told detectives
when I got there my mom started freaking out and she said her mom was quote unquote
raged at her because she felt like Carrie was taking Lloyd's side in the custody hearings okay so Carrie
explained that as the argument went on and on her mom was getting more and more irrational she said she started freaking
out and screaming and she woke my she woke my little sister up so I guess eventually the fight
escalated to the point where out of concern for the younger daughter Carrie said she took her out of the house and
they went back to Rochester for the night okay so you know de-escalating the situation
it's all sad you know so sad exactly so investigators are hearing this and they're like okay okay and at first
glance Michelle's death kind of appeared to investigators like it really could just be suicide but friends and family
were like there's no way like they vehemently disagreed with that for one thing putting the problems with Lloyd to
the side for a second Michelle's personal life and her career were going extremely extremely well her friend
Cynthia said she had a great job and it was not the place in her life where she would have committed suicide after all
the really difficult years she'd been through and then her divorce divorce lawyer agreed and said I never believed
it she was determined to have a successful life and she did that's that's why it was so shocking to me when
you said that I was like what yeah it seems like nothing here I mean not that we I have a full picture of her every
day today but it's like seemed very sudden and out of nowhere right especially when realistically she would
be celebrating the fact that after all these years of fighting that he had given up he'd given exactly you know I'm
sure she knew he hadn't and that is like a factor there that it's like did you know that it was something else
something awful was gonna come from this like he wasn't gonna let it lie right but the timing just seemed weird well
and it doesn't seem like like it seems like she would fight for her daughters yeah and she's like she wouldn't just
give up like that either right exactly you know exactly so the and that's the thing other people who knew Michelle
went a step further and they said Not only did they think that Michelle would not have ended her own life but that if
it was murder they needed to look at Lloyd yeah they were like before you sign that dotted line and decide like
how she went out of here to look at Lloyds yeah I'm glad they said that that was like everybody was like oh yeah like
no yeah and that same uh family friend that I mentioned earlier Rose coluccio I want to say it is she told Dateline when
asked at the scene what I thought my answer was I think he did it wow so that tells you something that's the thing
when people are just off the bat like I don't know anyone in my life and I feel very lucky that I don't know anyone in
my life that if they went they suddenly died that I would be like you gotta look
at this person like I don't know anyone like that no me either and it's like so if I knew somebody that the first
thought in my mind was it's probably them right that it's probably them and imagine having that level of concern for
like a family friend or like a relative like that's awful and then to see it like this and be like it ended how I was
worried it was gonna end right that I can't imagine so that here's the thing obviously these
were Michelle's friends and family speaking and obviously it's common for those people to be shocked when their
friend or loved one maybe takes their own life absolutely and it's also pretty common that they would reject the idea
entirely of course no they would never be the person to do that or you know because it usually does come seemingly
out of nowhere to everyone like around you you know like it's not always very obvious but in this case it wasn't just
the shock of unexpectedly losing Michelle there was as we all know at this point a very long history of
domestic abuse and violence in the family yep that friends and family were well aware of and very worried about
yeah in fact when uh Genie made it to Corning that's Michelle's Mother after her daughter's death and she started
going through Michelle's personal things she started to get an even clearer picture of how dysfunctional Michelle
and Lloyd's marriage had been she said I started finding court documents and I started finding screenshots of tech she
was just constantly abused emotionally abused that's so sad it is now when that was brought to the attention of the
investigators looking into Michelle's death coupled with some bizarre findings in the autopsy they were starting to
think that maybe her friends and family could be onto something here because she might have been found in a
manner that indicated suicide but what struck the coroner as very strange was when he discovered a U-shaped Mark
around her chin that suicide by hanging just couldn't account for because the the mark on her chin
actually unsettled the police chief Jeff Spalding so much that he didn't want the
label on the death to be suicide I was worried that it was going to be written as suicide and
something about this was telling him that it wasn't oh geez he said it appeared as though somebody had gone
behind and thrown a rope over the neck and pulled back and down causing the mark oh my God yeah and he said he hoped
that the autopsy would confirm their suspicions but unfortunately when the results came back the cause of death was
listed as undecided undetermined causation so now they had to go back to the drawing board and once there there was
Carrie's Story to consider next to the evidence she said that her and her mom had gotten
into this big fight the night that she died and she claimed it was because Michelle thought that Carrie was
supporting her father over her now investigators realized you know of course it's possible that Michelle was
upset about this but again Lloyd had just failed to show up to the court and the case was dismissed so it kind of
seemed like this huge stressor in her life was resolved yeah and under those circumstances it didn't really seem like
she'd be enraged at Carrie at that point like to get in such a big fight over this no it doesn't it doesn't add up no
and they also were like I don't really think she would be super hopeless about the situation either so now they were
leaning more toward the possibility that Michelle was murdered and even though the evidence was very very
circumstantial at that point it did strongly suggest that her ex-husband Lloyd was worth looking into
but there was a problem with the theory that he had something to do with it he had a pretty strong Alibi when police
discovered Michelle's body he was nearly 3 000 miles away at a job interview in California
oh however with that being said he had been in New York around the time that Michelle had been killed oh he just got
into work after got to California after that so he just got there quick uh-huh okay real quick according to Carrie her
father had helped her move into her new apartment on August 26th and then he stayed in a hotel room that night and
left for California on the 27th and had been there ever since okay but actually when investigators called to tell him
about Michelle he was still in California and once he was informed that she had died he flew right back to New
York huh and the first thing he did was go to the uh I think it's Steuben County
Family Court to quote turn off his child support and maintenance payments yeah you got to do that real quick it
was the first thing he did it's like do you want to check in with any of your children yeah like their mother was just
I mean just died yeah like what no now as he was leaving that Courthouse that day he ran into Corning police
detective James Volpe and James was like Hey like you want to chat and weirdly Lloyd seemed pretty eager to talk about
Michelle's death really they sat down in detective volpe's car for what turned out to be a actually pretty lengthy
interview and Lloyd he gave the same Alibi that his daughter had given them a couple days earlier and he you know went
on to say that he checked into the motel after helping Carrie move he said they had dinner together and after Carrie
left he went to bed and then he said the next morning he met Carrie and his younger daughter around 7 A.M for
breakfast then he left the hotel and was off to California okay so Volpe was like
okay and then they went back to the station and he decided to check into that even
further I'm glad and data from his cell phone actually seemed to corroborate the
story that he had told investigators and Carrie had told investigators but the security footage from the hotel
told a very different story oh when investigators looked at the foot darn cameras those freaking cameras every
time it's like Jesus Christ people look around yeah I mean or don't I don't honestly but so they looked at the
footage and they saw Carrie and Lloyd get to the hotel the evening after she moved into her apartment but when he
walks her to her car later that night he can clearly be seen getting into the car
and leaving with her when he said he went to bed and then they met up for breakfast the next morning guy nope come
on and then he didn't appear on camera again until the next morning and that was when he was supposed to be getting
breakfast with his kids and the police chief there Jeff Spalding pointed out he still appears to be wearing the same
clothes that he had on the night before Lloyd's story was that he stayed at the hotel room all night the video evidence
is saying no he didn't the video evidence is saying no that is incorrect so now the police had evidence that he
lied to them about his Alibi and they were like well [ __ ] maybe he really did have something to do with yes after all
so combined with the physical evidence documented during the autopsy everything investigators were learning about Lloyd
indicated that yeah he probably had something to do with this yeah but they had to identify his motive uh which was
pretty easy yeah the District Attorney's office did some digging and they found out that he was quote not in a good
Financial Place hmm according to Baker Lloyd had over a hundred thousand dollars in credit card debt oh damn and
he was paying his wife almost six thousand dollars a month wow like child support Yeah a hundred thousand dollars
credit card debt like how do you that much credit card debt yeah that's a lot 100 how do they even let you spend that
much I was gonna say I didn't even get that bad you had it had to have been across like multiple it always had to
have been yeah oh my God I remember the first credit card I got when I was like 18. I [ __ ] maxed it out at like I
think it was probably like three thousand dollars and it took me years a hundred thousand like you'd done I
also was like damn what was your credit score because mine was really bad it's like a 200. let's see oh my God that
makes me nauseous oh but that wasn't it Baker was also who worked for the daa's office was also able to find out that
Lloyd had already tried to collect Michelle's 260 000 life insurance policy which clearly
would have taken care of his debt I am so glad that these idiots are so [ __ ] stupid me too thank goodness because
like two are you [ __ ] kidding me my guy dude this is this is like Jesus right out there like you have this much
debt you already tried to first of all you immediately shut off all the payments why did you think that you were
gonna get her [ __ ] life insurance you've been divorced for four years like what
um but based on what they've learned so far the District Attorney's office they believed that Lloyd killed Michelle
and Carrie had either helped him or was helping him cover it up shut up yeah they thought she had something to do
with it mm-hmm [ __ ] they couldn't prove it quite yet but they were like the way
that she was covering for him they were like she either knows something about this or she participated oh no oh oh no
I hate that yeah oh man so now they had a Suspect with the means the motive and the opportunity to commit Michelle's
murder now investigators were they were able to get a warrant and they put wiretaps on Lloyd and Carrie's phones to
monitor those conversations but it was November 2017 when they started monitoring those conversations and by
that point almost two months had gone by since Michelle had been killed so Carrie
and Lloyd weren't really talking about Michelle that much anymore yeah thank God I'm like damn that was your whole
ass mom but yeah like wow apparently they got what they needed out of the situation yeah so Jeff Spalding police
chief said in order to kind of refresh things we did what was called tickle the wire that's precious which I [ __ ]
love tickle the wire tickle The Wire know that was a term nor did I apparently it's a tactic that police
will use to make criminals think that they're under like super intense scrutiny so it makes them talk about
their crime more because they're like freaked out exactly so what they did was uh in late November they had detective
Volpe there called Carrie and imply because you yeah that's pretty [ __ ] smart right they were like we found some
new information and we're gonna need to talk to you like you're gonna have to come down so Carrie took the bait and as
soon as she got off with the detective she called her dad and let him know that they were calling her back in and Lloyd
was like it's probably just a formality like there's nothing to worry about but he still told her quote I don't think I
want you talking to them and then he went on to tell Carrie that she needed to put the police off as long
as possible he said tell them I'm sorry I got a counseling appointment back in New
Jersey tonight and like told her to make it seem like she was really going through it that's awful and then asked
her could you cry and she said I might wow yeah so that was pretty incriminating
this is some cold [ __ ] cold from her ex-husband and her daughter yeah like there this is a daughter talking to
her father about her mom yeah it sure is and he's like can you cry like manipulating her and they're like [ __ ]
and that's the thing she's like a [ __ ] teenager it's in this is a father this is manipulating their child
wait until you hear what like this isn't really just this is cold this guy this is Sinister this guy this given some
very Sinister this guy is the scum of the earth yeah truly and apparently well we'll get there okay
so the conversation between Carrie and Lloyd very much confirmed investigator suspicions but at the same time it
wasn't it wasn't completely incriminating it was Sinister Vibes but it was that's what they said it was a
Sinister they were like it's giving Sinister by button but they honestly didn't say
anything like wow I can't believe we got away with this because you know like it
wasn't right right it was right out there just anybody looking at it would be like yeah exactly but you can't just
go off of yeah you can't go off of a Vibe no unfortunately you can't I go off of a
Vibe all the time but I think like when it comes to the law they have this whole
thing against them yeah that's the thing you but everybody listening live your life off Vibes if you want to oh please
do Good Vibes only please but Chill Vibes only but yeah legally we cannot yeah no
um and the other thing is legally you cannot get a search warrant off of Vibes yeah you can't so one of the biggest
problems that the District Attorney's office was facing was the undetermined cause of death on Michelle's autopsy so
they gathered up all the forensic evidence and all the autopsy reports and they took everything to a private
forensic pathologist for a second opinion unfortunately Michelle had been cremated oh no so there was no body to
examine damn it but this private pathologist also noted the mark on Michelle's chin and he noted that
particular hemorrhaging was there and was very suspicious and after looking over some more papers he looked up at
the detectives and the district attorney and said this is a homicide hell yeah he
knew he knew good job so on January 24th 2018 five months after Michelle had been
murdered investigators visited Lloyd at his office in New Jersey and another set
of officers went to see Carrie at her apartment in Rochester the one that her dad had quote unquote helped her move
into hmm so confronted with all the evidence that they had at this point Lloyd still maintained but he was at his
hotel in Rochester all night and he said I'll take a polygraph test I'll take one
right now like let's go cool so they weren't very surprised by his confidence because they knew between the
two of them if somebody was going to crack it was going to be Carrie of course she's a child and they were right
yeah once Carrie was brought into the police station for questioning she told them everything which tells you she that
she did not want a part of this exactly like she had done her whole life it sounds she snapped to attention front
and center when he told her to exactly because she was scared of him and wanted to make her happy to avoid that's
whatever what happened if he wasn't happy this isn't a grown ass adult this is a child who's being manipulated by
their parents exactly it's really sad against their other parent which is some of the worst kind of manipulation you
can imagine one wait until you hear like how he manipulated her to do this it's terrible I can't imagine being in the
position that Carrie was in so according to Carrie she and her father returned to
Corning after they did move into her apartment that afternoon and she let her father in the house
and Michelle was standing at the top of the stairs when they walked in into Michelle's house yeah and as soon as
Michelle saw Lloyd she started yelling and was like why the [ __ ] are you here yeah so they started arguing
and they eventually made made it to Michelle's bedroom to argue privately and that's where the shouting continued
Kerry said suddenly everything went silent and at first she told detective she didn't know why her mom had suddenly
gone silent but eventually she admitted it was because her mom was dead so she told investigators she saw her
mom dead laying on the bedroom floor so he just killed her in their bedroom in her bedroom yep while their child's
children children oh God because the younger one the 14 year old was there yep exactly oh she
had no idea what was going on so Carrie knew that was why her dad was in the house in the first place because
he had actually come to her a week before this and told her that he couldn't afford the monthly support that
he had to pay Michelle and he was in so much debt that the only way he saw out was killing himself he's a [ __ ]
monster you can't handle it dude figure the [ __ ] out your kids should have nothing to do with your child support
payments you go to your child and say I can't afford to pay for you so I'm I'm gonna kick it yeah what the [ __ ] no
anybody who goes to their kids and talks about custody issues and [ __ ] and like
child support that's an [ __ ] move like what the [ __ ] that's a piece of [ __ ] move and so knowing that Carrie's
relationship with her mom was really strained at that point he knew what he was doing he knew Carrie would choose
him over the mom over Michelle so he casually suggested an alternative plan he said well we could also Kill Your
Mother Jesus and he said all his financial issues would be solved so she literally
sat there carrying the detective's interview room and said I had to choose I'm horrified she was faced with that
decision and what these children 19 years old imagine what they dealt with as little
kids no because if your father comes to you and is like hey either I'm gonna kill myself LOL I'm not really actually
gonna do that I never had any intention why don't we just kill your mom but we could kill your mom because I can't
afford the child support for you like what like what's gross it's I can't it's like your
brain can't even come up with that on its own so Carrie went on to explain the rest of the night telling investigators
that Lloyd and Michelle's arguing eventually woke up her younger sister who was at the house the 14 year old so
Carrie took her outside and put her into her car and she just told her to wait these poor kids she said that she then
went back inside and when she got there her mom was dead so she and her sister went back to Rochester and she said they
left Lloyd in Corning to Stage the scene to look like a suicide now based on the confession she was
arrested on second-degree murder charges for the murder of her mother yeah she knew about it ahead of time I mean and
she helped like we talked about it this is a father manipulating her daughter so
it's very [ __ ] up in every way imaginable but she played a role you you helped plan it and you were there the
law is pretty black and white unfortunately it's maybe fortunately it's not your responsibility to stop it
physically I mean this is a grown man you're a child this is your father but you call the police well and she I mean
she let him in the house that's the thing like this wasn't even the house that he had shared with Michelle this
was the house that Michelle had gotten on her own and it's the it's the sad reality that it's like you had a chance
to stop it you could have called the police it's it's awful so with Carrie's confession on the record investigators
had everything they needed to arrest you right now but they ran into a pretty big issue
what he never showed up for that polygraph test at the police station that he said he was going to come to
don't even tell me an officer's lost sight of it are you [ __ ] kidding me guys they lost sight are you kidding me
but luckily they were able to use data and they tracked him to a parking garage in Princeton New Jersey where he was
threatening to jump from the top oh [ __ ] off Lloyd like oh you just murdered a
whole last person and involved your daughter and now you're gonna jump you're still trying to manipulate
everybody's emotions get out of here we're going to get out of here so the officers in Princeton negotiated with
him for over two oh my God what a waste of [ __ ] time it's like just come down we know you're coming down exactly just
stop so uh finally in a moment when he briefly looked away an officer tackled Lloyd and placed him under arrest for
the first degree murder of Michelle Knight Rider Carrie was taken to Corning that evening and formally charged on one
count of second-degree murder and at that point she was denied bail wow so she was taken to the Steuben County Jail
Lloyd meanwhile he was still in New Jersey and now had to be extradited so that was a whole thing yeah
so two days later on January 26th Carrie was arraigned in the city of Corning and
she entered a plea of not guilty to second-degree murder and she waved her right to a preliminary hearing that's
always so hard to say yeah a few days later Lloyd appeared before a judge in New Jersey where he waved extradite
extradition proceedings and then he was eventually transferred also to Steuben County
so he and his daughter Carrie were finally formally indicted in late February in Steuben County New York in
total he was indicted on seven felony accounts damn first degree murder second degree attempted murder first degree
burglary first degree custodial interference tampering with physical evidence second-degree conspiracy and
second degree criminal solicitation wow and Carrie was indicted on four felony counts second-degree murder first degree
custodial interference tampering with physical evidence and second degree conspiracy
and district attorney Brooks Baker told the press this appears to be the ultimate domestic violence case oh it's
awful what is clear from the evidence is this was not a crime of passion this was
planned calculated and a purposeful killing and he destroyed Kerry's life a hundred percent like you Cho you not
only killed this this woman her mother but you destroyed her life no matter if she goes to jail for 25 years or she
goes she doesn't go to jail like you've ruined her life she's going to look back
on this and blame herself yeah the guilt she's gonna feel and like the you know it's like this is this is so bad and now
she's in like a random person you know somebody to kill somebody it's like this is your father
convincing you that this is his only way up like that I can't imagine the emotional
manipulation the trauma that these kids faced like that for her to be manipulated into that by him like the
trauma they had to have faced while they were children up until that point must have been so immense for him even just
those small comments that you heard from family friends like he would yell front
and center yeah that's the thing it's like and people described like him as making their appearance Immaculate like
kids are not meant to be Immaculate no they're meant to be in like just wild and and you know it's like they should
have jam on their face they should like sure are there moments where you want your kids to look presentable for like
your Christmas cards you try to keep their hands clean they're not those fingernails like no it's like this would
be kids and it doesn't sound like they were allowed to be and that's the thing they weren't allowed to be kids because
he was sitting there talking about the custody issue and the financial stuff with his children which is something you
in my opinion you should never [ __ ] do no they should know nothing about your no financial situation your
anything situation they should be kids and kids alone that's it they should never have to know about adult issues
between you or anything like that and it's like when I talk about that all the time that's like one of my biggest
things because when I was little I knew everything was going on in my household I knew money problems I knew custoded
custody I knew custody problems and you shouldn't and like and it makes you have
to grow up so much faster and then you look at other people's child it's a childhoods and you're like oh like you
weren't worried about like you were Carefree like you didn't have to lend your mom your tooth fairy money like
what oh my God that's so awful but yeah but like that's why that's one of my biggest things when I have kids is like
our kids will be kids yeah exactly it's you can't and everybody can raise their kids how they want to because of course
everybody's gonna raise kids differently this is you know this is just our opinion on the matter so take it take it
or leave it but I don't I think this is really [ __ ] up what he into these kids
this is 100 his fault you're not the only one that thinks yeah solidarity cool and actually many professionals
now so from the moment they were arrested investigators knew that Carrie would be the easiest one to flip she was
young she really didn't have a direct involvement in the murder as far as they knew and she very much seemed to have a
[ __ ] ton of guilt about it yeah so after a few weeks and while she was in jail the district attorney met with
her to talk about a plea deal and it was during this interview that she actually
revealed the shocking fact that despite what she had told investigators originally
she actually had helped her father stage the same oh no Carrie yes she didn't play a direct role in the murder like
her father very much murdered but he she helped cover it up she told investigators he opened the door and my
mom was laying on the floor and he said he needed help lifting her we dragged her around the corner and he tied the
Rope to one of the prongs of the banister and lifted her up and put her or and she said lifted her up and put
threw her over the side and she was sobbing while she was saying this like she I can't fathom this she was
traumatized on another the situation this girl was put into is she was put into this situation she was emotionally
manipulated she was oh that's horrible it's horrible she also admitted that her father had ridden in the trunk of her
car all the way back to Rochester and her little sister never even knew he was in the car
that's terrifying she snuck him in the trunk and he stayed in the trunk the entire time that they drove back he's a
[ __ ] demon knowing that he had just murdered their mom knowing that Carrie had to pretend like she hadn't just oh
he's a piece of absolute [ __ ] this guy and the little sister has no [ __ ] idea what's going on
like and it sounds like Carrie it's just like she made very bad choices okay very bad like unimaginally bad
manipulated by a parent which is the worst kind of manipulation I can't even fathom that great and then I it almost
it seems like she was also trying to protect her younger sister absolutely well I'm sure she had to protect a lot
from him yup like I'm sure that was became her a little bit of her job absolutely it's protect the younger ones
I'm sure and it's like that's [ __ ] up that she's never been that the role that
she had to play all these different roles too to try to keep everything the way that
she thought it was but like it's really sad and again the whole thing secondary murder yeah uh-huh absolutely yeah you
didn't call the police you didn't stop it in that sense in any way but damn this is an awful situation it really is
because the sad thing is it's like she didn't have to do this no no way she didn't have to do this but then you look
at it and you're like if she called the police on him and like he didn't go to jail what would have happened to her oh
she just there's no way to put yourself in that situation there was no parent you know like and especially like that
kind of situation none of us can probably imagine it right there really isn't there's no winning but like [ __ ]
it's a it's an unimaginable situation on every level truly from the beginning truly so she did take the deal an
exchange in exchange for testifying against Lloyd she pleaded guilty to one count of second-degree manslaughter okay
and she went on the record as having helped her father yeah so during the hearing she explained
to the court how her father had confronted her with the ultimatum either she helped him kill Michelle or he was
going to kill himself and she said she didn't know what to do so she agreed to help and and so this is actually like a
thing that was done to her it has like an actual term because in later interviews Brooks Baker would explain
that Carrie had undergone what's known as parental alienation it's a process where one parent consistently criticizes
and devalues the other parent with the intention of turning that child against the other parent oh yeah you can that's
like literally something that you can claim in custody issues is like to keep them away from the other parents like
because they will like claim parental alienation yeah that's when you get like um a guardian a guardian at Litem I
think and that's when they kind of start to work their way into a situation like
that which it's sad that it sounds like a maybe a Guardian guardian at Litem would have
been a better answer here honestly it just it's like just because the the relationship between Michelle and Lloyd
had gotten so contentious that I think there needed to be like a third party yeah because it sounded like the kids
were being so affected by it and that sucks that sucks yeah like that really does that sucks that
people do this to their kids and it's like your relationship with your your adult relationship should not have
anything to do with your children no and it's so sad I I don't know why I just thought of this but like I was looking
at pictures of them together because I try to look at pictures to kind of like understand who the people are and
everything and there was pictures of like Michelle and Lloyd when they first got together and Carrie and the older
sister as babies oh I saw I was looking at those pictures and they all look so so happy like he looks like a happy
Goofy Dad yeah I think there's pictures of him like in the delivery room like yeah it kind of looks like when I was
looking at some of them and he looked so excited and like happy to come into Academy
what your future was and how did you like go from there to turning into this [ __ ] awful monster
and again you want it like the marriage you want to end the marriage that's fine
the language keep that relationship in that contention away from your kids seriously so like and it's like
sometimes people are just not allowed to do that because the other parent won't allow like won't let it happen it's like
that sucks it's really sad and it's really tragic how toxic divorce can be yeah especially for the kids involved in
divorce and even when there's no kids involved in divorce it just sucks yeah it sucks I feel bad anybody going
through that I'm sorry that sucks because I can't even hug imagine and I would have no advice to give you because
it's just I can't even fathom that no and you can't you can't prepare for it people are different in every situation
so oh it just sucks this is just a [ __ ] terrible situation it's tragic it really is so with Carrie having pled
guilty and planning to testify against her father the DA's office got ready for what they figured Lloyd's most obvious
defense would be that Carrie was the one who had killed Michelle and he was just
protecting her all along oh yeah because again all of the evidence against him was circumstantial so far and the only
one who would confessed to anything was Carrie so he easily could have turned around and like gone after if he does
that well like he's a [ __ ] monster but it's like how low can you go yeah pretty low oh so uh district attorney
Baker was anticipating an uphill battle of a trial so he went to Lloyd With A Deal offer he said you can plead guilty
to the charge of first-degree murder face a sentence of 25 years to life in prison and the additional charges will
drop them if you take this deal now at the time it was offered like we know Lloyd was facing several felony cats
with additional charges now being added after the fact because it was discovered
that he and his sister Wendy Wendy vanilla there had attempted to bribe Carrie to change her testimony what the
[ __ ] [ __ ] you Wendy too yeah they told she actually ended up getting arrested
too both of you they told Carrie that they would get her a lawyer like one of the best lawyers and that she would like
get out of everything if she didn't do this what the [ __ ] yeah what is wrong with these people I do not know oh so he
was now facing extra charges against that so but at the same time Brooks Baker the D.A was like I don't know if
he's gonna be the kind of guy that's willing to come to the table with a compromise like this guy never backed
down is he really gonna back down now but after weeks of consideration Lloyd surprised the DA's office and he
accepted the deal wow which is shocking yeah I'm shocked by that so after the excuse me as with the deal offered to
Carrie Lloyd would have to go before a judge and explain on the record what he had done and at the moment he started
talking Baker was like oh no this entire deal is going to fall apart he said I thought we were going to go bad from
minute one because he starts off blaming Michelle wow blaming Michelle but just as quickly
as he blamed her he actually surprised everybody Again by reversing his course Baker told CBS he sort of said but that
doesn't matter I have no excuse murder is wrong it's like all of a sudden he was like beep beep boop I'm supposed to
say this like actually I have to get a plea deal so let me anything you say after blaming the murder victim for
their own murder is uh is pretty moot pretty mute so he did he went before the judge on October 12 2018. he confessed
that he had killed his ex-wife in order to quote take custody of his 14 year old
daughter and to end the financial burden of paying Michelle as part of a divorce
settlement wow it's like dude just go back to court if you don't want to pay that much money or just stop paying even
like even that's better than murdering someone anything short of murder yes is a better idea right now he also admitted
obviously to manipulating and coercing carry into helping them cover up the murder and enlisting his sister to bribe
Carrie into changing her testimony well I'm shocked that he just admitted all this he had to or else he wasn't going
to get the deal I know I'm surprised he took the steal like have forcing him to I know admit it I am too because no
matter what he was gonna basically spend the rest of his life yeah the better part of his life in prison
so two months later he went before a Steuben County Judge where he was sentenced to life in prison without the
possibility of parole bye and at the hearing he told the court that he had found God no one cares and now he felt
remorse about killing Michelle good for you but was quick to add and this is his
words not mine Michelle was unstable and needed to be committed to a mental institution oh there you are you really
had to Serious he's back everybody how's God yep so before the sentence was passed Michelle's mom got to read her
victim and her statement and she said Lloyd nyrider abused and tortured my daughter for 25 years he coerced his own
daughter into helping him kill her mother Carrie is now in jail facing the possibility of years in prison Lloyd and
I Rider should never be given the opportunity to harm anyone again please your honor give him life without parole
yes and that he did because it's like this isn't just a gun this is it's bad enough when a man will kill his wife
like you know the mother of his children like that that's Unthinkable but add add
your child Into The Fray what and let them take part of the [ __ ] my brain just like explodes every time I
think about it so he is serving uh servingly I combined currently and serving you know he is currently serving
his sentence at the maximum security uh Clinton Correctional Facility in dannemora New York
and now that leaves us with Carrie yeah I'm dying to know what's happening here so a week after her father was sent in
she went before the same judge and she was sentenced to one to three years in State Prison ultimately she did serve
two years of that sentence and she got released on January 16 2020. wow now a lot of people even before and after her
sentence was passed they went out of their way to convey that in certain ways she also was a victim like we've been
saying this whole time of her father's cruelty yeah Michelle's mother so Carrie's grandmother wrote in a letter
to the judge saying I do not believe my daughter Michelle would want a long prison sentence for her daughter she
would want her to eventually lead a happy life Wow which is that tells you all you need to know I think that's true
yeah and Brooks Baker the D.A agreed he said if anything the more information I've learned about the methodology the
father used to get control the more confident I am that this was the appropriate result see and that all
tells you except that they know more than we do well what happened here and I'm sure it's way worse than we thought
on his end 100 in that you know and I think Carrie having to live mentally with what she was a part of the rest of
her life I would say is a punishment and of itself now reflecting on the case Brooks Brooks Baker hard to say remarked
having the daughter involved was very unusual this is the first case I've dealt with where the child is involved
in the homicide of a parent I hope it's my last I also hope that my guy yeah yeah that is the story of the murder of
Michelle Knight Rider such a tragic story and it sounds like since Carrie was released she's just kind of gone on
to lead a very private life well you know I hope that I hope the best for her I really do I hope she gets the help
that she needs yeah but it was clearly a traumatic childhood and a traumatic you
know young adulthood and I really truly hope that her father leaves her alone like I hope that she never [ __ ] has
to hear from that piece of [ __ ] again no it's not a healthy yeah relationship that's gonna offer her anything in my
opinion what a terrible case that is terrible in every way that it could be terrible poor
Michelle truly those poor kids seriously and Michelle's mom yeah what if I was like damn yeah she is incredible laid it
down about Lloyd and then she laid it down about Carrie being manipulated and the fact that she already had to spend
so many years estranged from her daughter because of Lloyd and then Lloyd took her daughter forever Yeah that poor
poor family wow that I also hope nothing but the best for them I know I hope everyone everyone that you know isn't
Lloyd yeah I hope they're they're driving well me too I hope they're you know living a peaceful existence me too
and [ __ ] yeah but I hope that uh you guys keep listening yeah and we hope you keep it weird but that's the only thing
I've ever convince your uh child to murder your uh spouse because that's a [ __ ] wild thing to do when you
shouldn't have children if you're gonna do that yeah don't do that money [Music]
thank you

On August 28, 2017, police in Corning, NY responded to a call about “suspicious circumstances” at the home of forty-six-year-old mother of three Michele Neurauter. Upon entering the home, the scene appeared to be a fairly straightforward suicide; however, investigators were immediately suspicious that Michele Neurauter had been murdered and the scene had been staged to look like suicide. Michele’s mother, Jeanne Laundy, agreed, and she had a pretty good idea of who would have wanted to kill her daughter: Michele’s ex-husband, Lloyd Neurauter.Investigators quickly learned Michele and Lloyd Neurauter had been involved in a bitter custody battle for years, and Michele had repeatedly accused her ex-husband of trying to turn their children against her. After months of investigation, Corning detectives discovered that not only had Lloyd Neurauter succeeded in turning his children against Michele, but he had also recruited his second-oldest daughter, Karrie, to help him murder her mother.

Thank you to the debonair David White for research assistance.

References:

Kingsley, Jennifer. 2010. "Nickelodeon recognizes Corning woman's blog about parenting." Star-Gazette, June 1: 3. Moriarty, Erin. 2020. "I had to choose": Did a father brainwash his daughter to help plan her mother's murder? February 8. Accessed June 14, 2023. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michele-neurauter-murder-i-had-to-choose-did-a-father-brainwash-his-daughter-to-help-plan-to-kill-her-mother/. Murray, Jeff. 2018. "N. Brunswick man gets life, no parole, for murder." Central New Jersey Home News, December 5: A1. —. 2018. "Ex-RIT student, dad indicted in Corning slaying." Democrat and Chronicle, February 23: A2. —. 2018. "RIT student pleads not guilty to murder." Democrat and Chronicle, January 27: A15. —. 2018. "DA: Murder suspect tried to bribe witness." Star-Gazette, April 13: A1. —. 2018. "Man pleads guilty to killing wife in Corning." Star-Gazette, October 13: A1. —. 2018. "Murder suspect pleads guilty." Star-Gazette, March 9: A1. —. 2018. "Two charged with murder." Star-Gazette, January 26: A1.NBC. 2019. Dateline: The Ultimatum. New York. Smith, Jeff. 2020. "Karrie Neurauter, manipulated into helping kill mother, released from prison." The Corning Leader, January 30. Teurfs, Kathryne. 2020. Daughter who pleaded guilty to helping her father plan to kill her mother released from prison. February 7. Accessed June 15, 2023. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/karrie-neurauter-daughter-who-pleaded-guilty-to-helping-her-father-kill-her-mother-released-from-prison/.

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Brief Summary

The episode details the murder of Michelle Knight Rider by her husband Lloyd, involving their daughter Carrie in the cover-up.

Key points

Emo Nights and Heartburn. Elena and Ash share a light-hearted moment about emo culture and health issues.
The Night Riders' Facade Cracks. As tensions rise, the facade of the Night Rider family begins to slip.
A Shocking Court Date. Michelle is stunned when Lloyd fails to show up for a crucial custody hearing.
Carrie's Emotional Explanation. Carrie tearfully explains the argument with her mother before her death.
Investigation Turns Suspicious. Initial thoughts of suicide shift as friends and family doubt Michelle would take her own life.
Lloyd's Alibi Unravels. Security footage contradicts Lloyd's alibi, suggesting he lied about his whereabouts.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I think I do no I will never understand it.

Elena reflects on her confusion about life.

1:35WatchJul 21, 2023

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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