Lizzie Borden and other Dark Nursery Rhymes (with Special Guests - Two Girls One Ghost) | Morbid | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Ash I'm Elena I'm Karen and I'm Sabrina and this is [Music] morbid
oh wait more appropriate boo we're really good ghosts look at us we are did you guys think Spirits were
Among Us I know that they are after yeah yes we we now know that Spirits are very
I'm I'm becoming more and more A True True Believer at this point oh yeah like my skepticism is pretty much out the
window after our night at the Lizzy Bardon house yeah no way so much happened so much happened so we recently
as a forsome stayed a fearsome for forsome stayed at the Lizzy board and bed and
breakfast again again and we and we actually had it all to ourselves which was hor so much scarier so much to
ourselves that when we open the door with the code there was no one there greet us and we were like where are the
people that work here and we almost didn't ever ask yeah 5 hours later we texted and we're like is someone here
and they were like oh [ __ ] we forgot you guys were sit in the house tonight and
honestly we have the ghost to thank for that cuz we wouldn't have contacted them
unless we wanted to go to the basement ghost were like go to the [ __ ] to the basement yeah cuz we brought like we had
a bunch of our own you know ghost hunting paranormal equipment they give you some there if you want to do like a
little Ghost Hunt and we were getting so much [ __ ] over like we were getting EVPs
we were getting stuff over the Spirit Box lights were diing I don't think we even had 15 minutes of Peace of
chillness never it away always on happening and the feeling in that place is like nothing else it's it's you can't
describe it but it's just like so dark it hits you right away my favorite is when the delivery guy was dropping off
dinner I wish you all had seen his face he was like I don't want to be here he was staring and I opened the door and I
think he was even more stunned that I opened the door and he's like why are you here didn't say anything the haunted
house the door Creeks opens you standing there are you here for me is that my door Dash he's like I have
a steak and cheese you guys want this full pork mac and cheese we we definitely brought snacks for the entire
Village we sure did yes they were offerings they were that's true you know when we got stressed out we could just
walk through the dining room and grab a snack real quick to calm us down never alone alone never alone until that very
end not even going to the bathroom alone anytime someone had to go to the bathroom it was like everybody gather it
was a group trip also like the multiple times that I feel like we went to the bathroom the r pods did go off that
happened more than just once yeah you're right that did happen which is like are
they trying to scare us or were they trying to bring us back into the room yeah they like come back in here what
are you doing yeah or our pants down I don't know yeah there's also that or was it just that like we left the room so
they felt more comfortable like about yeah you know yeah they were like oh they're gone their when I fell asleep
in the one room and you guys you guys left me there and then we very G I was asleep how did you
tell me I woke you up oh and I was like you're in my line of sight cuz I sat at like the end so I could still see
you sat see me but then I did get spooked enough that I got up and I went and joined you guys in the other room
and then it was not like 90 seconds later the r pod right next to the chair that I'd fallen asleep in started going
off yeah the ghost did call us annoying a lot they did so much called us many things and stupid yeah yeah and [ __ ]
[ __ ] yeah let's be real the the spirit called us [ __ ] over and and over it's
like okay I get it like Dam all right is this high school and and just so you guys know in case you don't know like
the rod is like this little box it has a bunch of little lights on it and a big antenna and it's not a motion detector
like it's not like you walk well there are four lights that light up if there is motion but mid right yeah very very
close be a lot of penetration it's not one of those your hand has to be right on top of you're like I'm proving it
right but there's also that middle button that kept going off too was temperature fluctuation so we were
getting a lot of all of it where it was like it suddenly got colder in the room setting off one alarm on the pod and
then all of the other four lights that would say how close something was like in proximity would start going off
meaning something was like right on top of mhm it was wild like really wild the amount of things that happened in that
house I mean we were there for how long like hourss I think it would take probably like 10 hours for people to
understand the gra like actually for us to go through all of it 100 we had so much activity it was astounding I was
actually Astound there was we have a ton a ton of recordings from it like audio recordings video recordings and we we're
going to talk about a couple of them here but we're going to do like an indepth look at them and we're going to
hear the actual recordings on the two girls one ghost podcast so after you listen to this head on over there and go
listen to the in-depth stuff because you're going to hear the audio stuff we'll talk even further about like every
room that we were in cuz again it's like 10 hours just Insanity that looking back at
it I was like wow all of that happened like in one night it's hard to even remember everything that happened
because there was so much no it's true the next day Drew was like so like what happened I was like I don't
know I was like a ghost called a [ __ ] that's really the bestl yeah that was definitely a
highlight and it kept happening too that's why it was the most memorable he would follow us around a little bit and
apparently he was the like trickster of the house but the guides told us that because we had a guide um Amber who was
phenomenal came lat honestly shout out to Amber who was in bed and the management company was like oh [ __ ] we
forgot people were staying at the house and they were supposed to get a tour will you go over to the house as if we
hadn't already been investigating for like 5 hours on our own CU she came in and she was like oh [ __ ] I like you guys
there with all the equipment already ready I glad that she came though because the basement we were being led
to the basement yes and I think had we gone in there before we wouldn't have understood that we were dealing with
something that's a trickster spirit and I'm worried that something scarier could
have happened we could have been like oh what's who is this CU she was pretty quick to shoot that Spirit down as as
she was around yeah she was great like whereas we might have yeah inquired more and asked more questions but who are you
like we would have been tricked we were lured we were being lured down there absolutely it was definitely him and
they were like super awesome after like they were like super apologetic that somebody wasn't there oh yeah it was
like it was a great experience was also scared because in the reservations remember walking up to the house when
she was coming to give us the tour management called her and just said you need to go give a a ghost tour at the
house and gave her no other information and so she walked up and she like on on her side of like the tech that they use
it didn't show that anyone had booked any room because we just booked the house so she was like what the [ __ ] she
was like what am I walking into right now to give like 10:30 I think that she show like it
was late night I can't imagine having to be on call for that to her Wy Wy head on
down scom Ghost Hunt yeah team amember for Life fun though but yeah team amember
but we we learned a lot too like they give you a a cool little backstory of certain things and we got like a little
more like insight into stuff like they make sure to tell you we we've covered this case on the episode when was it it
was 2018 yeah 2019 2019 I think yeah yeah yeah I think we did around that time too
yeah but we learned so much more yeah being there being there AB gu I feel like I know way more now than even when
we presented the case def that's why like we'll probably dip back into it at some point because I have more theories
now but we covered it and again like I feel like I learned more this time like just of things that like like little
nuances of the case that I didn't know before and and different and they make sure to tell you that Lizzy and Emma her
sister are not in that house no no ghost in that house is Lizzy and you don't feel like you don't feel like feel her
or her sister but they say they hated that house they didn't like living there when they were there because they're dad
you know Andrew bordon who was one of the victims he P he was like he grew up and kind of poor and yeah he made his
own means he made his own and so like he was very frugal as an adult because that's what he knew that's the only way
I do love though that they she said while their Spirits aren't actively there people will hear screams because
they were sisters and it's this residual like sisterly fighting yes MH I love that because I know those screams like
my sister I were like that growing up yeah yeah so you know exactly what they're hearing like that yeah and the
rooms are right next next to each other like the way the house is set up is very
like 1800s it's like you have to go into Lizzy's room to get to it's kind of a maze wild that they had to the parents
would like lock that door between the two rooms the two rooms cuz Lizzy would like steal things from there was known
to be like a so I think they yeah they added a lock and sometimes they would put like a
dresser in front of it point Didn't They say like they nailed it shut yeah they said they nailed it shut at one point
that's wild it is they also locked their made away each night remember oh yeah she told us that as we were going
down from the attic she showed where lock on the outside yeah yeah Bridget Bridget Sullivan I hate that I don't
think I heard that when we were there God there were no house fires or anything seriously that's dangerous
which we'll talk about obviously on the two girls one ghost feed we're going to talk about that room too because we were
in's room and I feel like hers was very active we got every room every room we have something from every single it
might we might need to look at a blueprint of the house go room by room it's so true honestly but on this speed
we decided cuz we were thinking about like you know I I can't say for certain what I think happened there I just
that's what's really hard about the case is so hard it there is no answer and there's no obvious answer either and
there's so many theories that it's hard to land on just one and I know people are very definitive a lot of people
really think she did it and they are really convinced she did it and I totally get why and then there are a lot
of people who are 100% convinced she is innocent and I totally get why too I can
see 100% both of those places I just can't on neither I sit right in the middle I and we will never actually know
yeah I don't think we'll like I'm one of those people like with with the Jack the
Ripper case we were like five episodes into that I was like almost 100 pages into like a dissertation about that case
driving yourself I was becoming an actual ripperologist at that point I still I'm like I'm going to solve that
case like and this is the same what as soon as I go into that house and start hearing about it again I'm like well
let's go here I am I need to solve the Lizzy board like it's here I was sitting here telling Ash about it and I'll get
into it that I was like getting on the floor and like acting out certain things cuz I was like if you do it at this
angle it does it means somebody the left-handed thing and I don't know like I was right once I start it was
impressive because you started theorizing and then you started looking at like the the different things that
have actually been like recorded throughout history and they were right like they lining up with your theories
and then I get really excited when I agree when like old timey detectives agree with me I get excited I'm like
hell yeah that guy you totally were like an old timey detective in a past life I
feel like I 100% I feel that in my bones I feel that in my that the best compliment ever no I think so too I love
that I feel cuz I love these old timey cases I Can't Get Enough you're the you were the type of person that it was like
oh we need them on the case hell yeah you were the S after detective yeah you were for sure like smoking cigars oh my
God I can picture that right now black and white with the hat and the trench coat you had a monacle just cuz I want
you to have absolutely I did for no other reason I want that I didn't need it just for fashion just for the
aesthetic now I want you to do past life aggression and see what cases you actually were on oh my God we should all
do one together that'd be fun we've been trying to find someone to do it with I would love to do that it's kind
of the fear we just have to find a person to do it exactly yeah we'll do that we'll do everything with you we're
already like what's our next Ghost Hunt oh yeah like this was only the beginning
as far as we're concerned pretty much and the four of us together obviously our energies trigger something because
you guys have you had already been to The lizie Bard house and done overnight and you would said that there wasn't
nearly as much not at all it was wild we heard some things we you can see things out of the corner of your eyes
that happened a lot this time but I thought a lot more this time yeah but we didn't get as many like of the lights
happening I think it happened maybe like I I can't fully remember I feel like it
might have happened like once or well it was also storming so it was hard to determine which the lights were May
because of that or but this time it was non I was shocked it was like second we walked in with the lights like the
second we walked in and it just kept it was it was relentless the activity in this is our ghost hunting group now this
is hunting group we have to only can we get jackets made yeah and we're get we're going to get you ghost girl hats
hell yes and then yes we need to make jacket we're jackets okay it's official it's happening so excited let's stop
recording so we can figure out what the jackets look like here we come see you guys later okay but we haven't told you
what we're we're doing on this feed we told you a lot about what we're doing on the two girls one G feed but on this
feed do you want to well we decided cuz like going back there you start thinking
about it you start hearing the like actual stuff about the case you start you know they have the autopsy photos
there they have the crime scene photos there they are gnarly you can see them on the internet if you want to but
warning they are graphic they really um very upsetting but you start hearing about that stuff and then you think
about how people are either in one of those camps innocent or guilty this rarely any in between or gray area and
except for all of us people who think that she did it are are kind of being validated by that nursery rhyme that we
all have heard once or twice gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41 we used to
jump rope to that when we were 100% And we figured we were like wow we're going to go into that nursery
rhyme a little deeper and talk about how it is the the most inaccurate thing you've ever heard and also in so many
ways in so many ways from the jum and just assuming her guilt first of all but all wrong and we thought wow like
nursery rhymes do have weird Origins some of them are scary some of them are Dark a lot of them are are just weird
and a lot of them are just like yeah some of them are just strange and we figur commentary yeah why not look back
on a few nursery rhymes and see where they came from starting with the Lizzy bordon rhyme yes so Ash is going to do a
little introduction yeah a little intro that Dave helped me shout out fancy intro yeah okay so as early as the 14th
century and honestly probably even before that adults and children have been making up and documenting songs and
Rhymes to share stories and basically just try to explain the world around them commonly referred to as nursery
rhymes these simple folktales serve a ton of purposes like entertainment communication social bonding and they
also encourage uh phonological awareness which is a way that people actually learn and understand the sound and
structure of words and phases or phrases excuse me which I thought was cool that
is cool however like folkore and urban legend nursery rhymes and children songs are also a powerful means of conveying
social norms expectations and shared morality according to Lisa Hazlet from the University of South Dakota nursery
rhymes are a form of quote unquote hidden literacies their verses their verses were powerful subversive opinions
of political social or religious commentary regarding then contemporary events so essentially she's saying that
just like slaying or other types of culturally specific vacular nursery rhymes are a way for a lot of times
those in lower social or economic positions to criticize or talk back to their oppressors without being directly
confrontational or putting themselves at risk which when you think about the Lizzie bordon rhyme it's like you're
kind of mocking her but it's a nursery rhyme so absolutely you know now like all different urban legends and folklore
they also tend to be regionally specific and address themes ideas or issues related to the place where they get
created in the first place so getting topical here the Lizzie bordon Took an Ax rhyme it's an upbeat eight lines
children's rhyme that very Loosely like we were just saying conveys the story of
Lizzie bordon and even though she ended up being found not guilty most people in
and around Fall River Massachusetts at the time specifically believed that Lizzy was most definitely resp
responsible but had gotten away with the murder so she was completely ostracized
by almost everybody in town and local kids would gather outside of the house that she moved to after the murders
Maple coft that was the one up on the hill right up on the hill we actually drove by it when we left oh did you yeah
it's beautiful it is but kids would literally stand outside that house chanting that rhyme at her it's kind of
like impr Practical Magic when all the kids bully you're cuz they would do that to her yeah just like sit in her living
room with her dogs if she didn't do it too like you were saying that earlier yeah like if she didn't do it how
horrific like your parents were murdered in your home and then for the rest of your life people are singing the song
like you did it and it has this like weird cheerful tone to it that it's like la la
la mean and nothing like people are still mean like that like you know bullying into oh yeah yeah people are
ruthless people are it's a dawn of time yeah but it was a way of constantly reminding both the local courts and the
very wealthy Lizzy bordon up on that Hill that no matter what the law said they in the community knew for a fact
that she was a murderer which maybe not nobody can be sure nobody can be maybe although the one okay the one fact that
was really strange to me that Amber had told us was that they never searched her
room because she was a woman Ander seemed improper yeah which that to me is crazy yeah like they couldn't go in her
room well even her throwing out some of her own like bloody clothes they didn't investigate it because she said she was
on her period so they were like oh gross not touching that like seasoned investigators who were literally doing a
crime scene where a man's face was just gone because of a hatchet maybe I can smell the scent from her room we won't
go in there it's like what no that's so [ __ ] up this man's face was literally caved in and you are scared of period
blood on don't talk to us about that yeah they're like that's gross what's that then what's what's that in the
living room if this is gross what's that wild he's a man so he's a man that's a man's blood Cranium blood that's Cranium
blood that's a different it's a different kind of blood uh but honestly I think I I think I'm G to end up
becoming like a Lizzy olist at some point we're going to we're going toit you might already be yeah we're going to
revisit we're all invested so I think maybe if you guys are down at some point we might do an in-depth back at it
another dissertation coming your way honestly this is one I could get down with because I remember hearing about
this since like third grade and just like wanting to know the truth and we obviously we did the episode we did one
at the Lizzy Borg house you know years ago obviously but I we didn't go as in depth as I think I can now so yeah so uh
oh everybody different time strap in it's happening but right now I'll just give you a quick little overview I'm
going to give you a look at the rhyme and I'm going to tell you why the rhyme is wrong and then
because I can't stop there ever and brevity is not my strong suit never I have to talk to you about the autopsy
really quick and why those wounds don't make any sense I'm excited for this cuz that's the perspective that none of us
have the skill set to understand you do this is it's very interesting it's an interesting one for sure so as you guys
know Andrew and Abby bordon were killed in their home in Fall River Massachusetts on August 4th
1892 um again this is huge Massachusetts crime the fact that it happened like right right in Massachusetts everybody's
kind of obsessed with it like we can't stop it's never going to go away you go north you get Salem and the witches you
go south you get Lizzie bordon and her ass so true we just are like we we're really focused on these things but like
ash said a lot of people believe that Andrew and Abby boron's daughter Lizzy is the culprit but she was acquitted
have to keep saying it she was acquitted um so going back to the Lizzy bordon Took an Axe rhyme like we said it's
Lizzie bordon Took an Axe gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41 this seems
to have actually been created very soon after the trials and murder because in the herald the News Herald on February
15th 1894 so only two years after the crimes were committed and actually barely two
years um there is an article that says quote a Boston lady who brings her children up very carefully and never
allows them to see a newspaper found them on going into her Nursery the other day singing Lizzie bordon Took an Axe
gave her mother 20 wax after seeing what she had done gave her father 21 so it started closer to the actual amount of
ax wax that did happen and we have since almost doubled the number as we come this way my gosh also Imagine Sheltering
your children forever and that's the first [ __ ] thing they find like you're like this is exactly what I did
in I'm like you know what maybe let them read the newspaper now iess maybe they wouldn't be cuz maybe they'll have the
real story at this point also I also think it's it comments on our society and like the way that it started with 20
wax to 40 of the way that we love to exaggerate and dramatize things over time and things that are already
horrific in and of themselves and do not need to be made worse like she hated her
father's face no matter how many times that's allegedly somebody somebody somebody got Andrew Bor matter
how many times that happened it's it's brutal like we don't need to up the antie there no and that's the thing so
the first thing that's that I can think of that's wrong about this is Andrew bordon was killed while taking a nap on
the couch in the front sitting room and he was struck with what they believe is a hatchet 11 times but Elena doesn't
know guys we're not sure if it's a hatchet they think it was a hatchet they think it matched a hatchet they found
the like head of a hat like a I think a handleless hatchet on the property but they could never determine it was
actually the one right but there are thoughts that it could have been something else maybe an iron flat one of
those little things that was found on the stove which they have a ton of in that in that house and we were talking
and it's connected that weapon of opportunity it's right to the kitchen yeah yeah so that is a thought and who
knows because again autopsies weren't like topnotch back then so it's not like they could absolutely also we should
note that autopsies took place in the house in the dining room literally in the dining room we spent a lot of our
night on the dining room table yeah where all our snacks were was the autopsy table that was hanging up on
display was that the actual one used the one that was actually used in this case
but it is an antique it's not a replica it's an antique autopsy table other people had autopsy autopsy performed on
their bodies yeah but not the bordens for that one okay but that is the actual room that it happened in um but AB Abby
bordon was killed in the guest bedroom right up at the top of the stairs and she was struck 18 times with a hatchet
so she got more than Andrew and she was killed first they believe wasn't the uncle staying in that room at that like
during time he was that is the John moris room right yeah she was changing the Linens yeah they believe she was
there's also like a thought that I think Lizzy said at one point when they asked
where Abby could have been she was like she was probably sewing and there's a sewing machine in there so there was
like all these theories was she sitting down when it happened I don't think so doesn't make sense to me yeah but it's
fully believed that Abby was killed first while like you said she was either putting Linens away doing something in
that room you know it's a guest bedroom you're always doing something in a guest
bedroom when someone's staying with you yeah so there is a closet at the top of the staircase too and it's thought that
maybe someone had H and investigators believe this that someone hid in that closet and came out when she was in the
bedroom and struck her from behind possibly waited in that closet again until Andrew came home and fell asleep
and then went down and killed him then you know and that all makes sense cuz like no one else saw anybody else so it
makes sense that he would hide or she um then when we stayed in the house this time what made this wild to me was we
went into that John Morse room the room that Abby was found in the room that that like Infamous crime scene photo was
taken in and the words immediately that came through on our little like you know
Spirit Box type thing um was dirty and then closet and as soon as they said Closet in that room I I asked did
someone hide in the closet and then they she said startled mhm and we were like start of the closet stuff we didn't know
it before yeah I didn't know that that was a possibility and when I found that out I was like why in that room would
that word come out cuz it didn't happen again or before that in any other room nope not the word I mean that was like
every haunting we experienced was so specific to what has happened in the house what is alleged to haveed and the
ofs that are to be in and I feel like I mean I this to you when we got to the house like K and I both decided we're
not going to relisten to the episode that we did about Lizzie bordon because we just didn't want any
information to like sway our experience yeah we didn't want to be influenced no definitely not so the fact that none of
us maybe in the past we had had that knowledge but that it was just like yeah that's what it the closet thing really
shook me that's a weird word to just be said in that and it was so specific it was
like a minute after we got in that room too it was like we were in that room we settled for a second and then it was
like closet mhm right well and those words were not repeated at all throughout the night in any other room
first and only time that that was said yes and it's like when I found out that they think someone was hiding in the
closet it's like why would that be said that's so much of a coincidence if that's the case so many other EVPs that
will like visit on you guys' feed that why would that be said in that room like like the kids and everything can't wait
to talk about that when we get into the kids guys that that's on another level John's like a my husband is like a super
like he's open-minded with that stuff but he's he's a skeptic like he wants to debunk it immediately and he doesn't he
like he can't stand like any ghost shows or anything like like on TV where like they're hunting ghosts he's always like
I don't know I feel like this is just for TV yeah like he's a super sometimes I feel like that too do fully believe in
the Paranormal and when I watch those shows I'm like it's hard you're like it's TV they need to entertain people ex
exactly so he's always kind of like eh so when I came home and I showed him the video of the kids room and some of the
things that happened there he was like I have the chills like he was like I can't
explain that CU he gets the uncut version he gets to watch the 16 minutes of us sitting there asking in the like
awkward 45 seconds of Silence waiting for a resp and then seeing that they like fully
responded to us while we were talking there he was like I can't argue against that like that's a wild one yeah each
room was and what happened in each room what came through on the spare boxes and
all of the devices were very specific the messaging yeah very much and that that closet thing I just we started and
the word strangled came out in that room too yeah that was in like the actual like Spirit box that we were using yeah
so we kind of so Ash and I were sitting here and we were like trying to like theorize around a strangulation possibly
because that's not anywhere really like when you find like that some people have
mentioned it here or there it's really not a thing like that she was strangled or anything like that so I started I was
like you know what like let me look at the autopsy report and see if anything in there can tell you it's not detailed
so it's like you're not getting a lot out of there and nothing like right up nothing scream strangulation in that or
anything like that um but there were contusions to the of aby's nose and her forehead mhm which are interesting um
and initially I figured my initial thought with that was like okay that was probably her falling forward after she
got hit yeah and she didn't stop herself using her hands cuz she had been hit in
the head and incapacitated and just right flat on the on the ground you know but or maybe she fell forward and then
was hit and it was like the force of the wax like her face into the ground that kind of thing or I mean this is a really
aggressive Theory but like if someone did grab her from the back of her neck and just slam her possi or possibly like
you said grabbed her from the back of the neck and slammed her into the wall front of her into the into the bureau
next to her there's a buau next to hery duty pieces of furniture your face into those that's
solid wood there was no wood veneer no days it's not from ik heavy no very solid and these were two like the
contusion on her forehead was on the left side like above her eyebrow and on her left
side of her forehead and the bureau if she was facing the wall which is where she was found is to her left if they
took her and slammed her into that dresser MH to first like incapacitate her but then according to the autopsy
report looking at the 18 wounds to her head the first one was called a glancing scalp wound so it was seems to me like
that would be one that was like quick and not aimed properly and I just got to get this in was wasn't even as hard as
it could have possibly been cuz it's a glancing scalp wound it was like 2 in long um 1 and 1/2 in wide and it was
struck about 3 in above her left ear hole so that was interesting to me because it was said to be done in a
downwards motion that did not penetrate the skull so it just didn't go through the skull just a glancing scalp wound
about three Ines up from her ear hole which is near your temple does that mean someone was taller than her too that was
my thought because if you look at Lizzy Lizzy is like 5 foot three 5'4 is what she's thought to have been and Abby is
5'3 so they're about the same height I mean I guess you could raise your like you could definitely raise above for
sure but she was also the first one killed in the house and so that sort of thing where you you try to hit but you
miss that to me indicates there was still a lot of like adrenaline and nervousness building up too yeah
especially if they're waiting in the closet for a long time exact and then you're just bursting out and you got to
do it before she can scream because Bridget Sullivan is outside washing windows all this is happening so you
need to do this quick and you need to incapacitate someone quick right um so again not hard enough to penetrate the
skull but a decent wound and the Temple area which if you're hitting the temple you're going to be dazed and started
that's a place you don't want to be hit it's going to like [ __ ] with you doesn't
that bleed a ton to it bleeds a ton cuz there's a lot of like stuff going on in there but interestingly though it was
her left side which to me would to indicate a left-handed person because if you're walking up behind her you're not
going to reach across your body to whack her in the left side so that' just be so
awkward yeah it would just be an awkward thing and it would add extra seconds to
what you're doing cross body and you're not getting a good whack yeah you don't have nearly as much control you don't
have near and then it's like but if it was a glancing scalp wound was it a right-handed person and they didn't have
a lot of control so they hit it not that hard but also we have to remember that people were forced into learning to be
right-handed so perhaps it was someone who to the public and in school were right-handed but naturally to them using
their left-handed exactly or their left hand because people point to the fact that Lizzie was right-handed but maybe
in school she was nothing says that she was not ambidextrous and was just taught
to be right-handed we don't know either way right so it could have been either way but then we were thinking okay that
would happen if you were coming from behind um but and I do believe she was snuck on snuck up on behind cuz the way
she fell it just doesn't make sense that she was turned to face someone um but the second hit was directly to the top
of her skull which if done by Lizzy would only be done likely if Abby fell to her knees first which she did right
that that well we don't know if she fell to her knees she she landed that way end
up falling to her knees but I don't know if she just fell like crumpled into that
position because also they moved her to take pictures so like those are even a little bit like caring for I forgot that
they had moved them they said that she was found with her knees up a little bit but that's like you know we can only go
by so much but she would have had to have fallen to her knees if this was Lizzy because of the height I don't
think she would be able to get a good whack to the full top of her skull and it wasn't done with her lying on the
ground cuz you're not if she's lying on the ground then her head a little down you're not going to get a good whack on
the top of the head so she had to have been at least on her knees um and again she would have needed to be facing away
here's a question and I wonder if this lines so we heard the closet startled what if Abby was going to put
away Linens or to open that closet door and then got startled that first scrape that kind of hit on the odd side of the
head where we're like that person would have to be left-handed what if that happened there she started R she was so
scared she fell down and hit herself and that's when she was on the ground and started getting that absolutely could
have happened yeah that definitely could have that does make sense of like blood
spatter elsewhere that's an interesting thing so they don't it seems like it all
happened in that one spot in that corner but also the blood SP is strange it's like it doesn't seem like it was enough
almost like it's like so could have some could have been washed a lot of it probably got on the person okay To be
honest and especially when you get to like we're going to get to a point where it
does penetrate through the skull in the autopsy report the pieces do and when it
penetrates through a skull you're going to be pulling back out and it's going to
make a lot so it's going to spray a lot and it did stay in that little corner so
I think the majority of it happened in that corner but it's just that thing of like she definitely hadn't fallen down
yet when that second hit happen because she she at least had to be on her knees are standing because to get the top of
the head it's just the angle right you wouldn't with the wall there you wouldn't you would have to like almost
Golf Club swing into the top of her head to get it so you had to get a good like
Leverage on so it's either someone who was taller or if it was Lizzy she had open on her knees yeah which kind of
like Works a little bit both ways because it's like At first you're like okay well because they're the same
hitish a little bit it's less likely to be Lizzy because they were able to do that yeah but then if she fell on her
knees it makes sense and she was found with her knees up a little bit which kind of leads me to believe that she
went down on her knees first and then kind of was whacked down more cuz to get 18 wax and a lot of them on the top of
the head it was before you fell and I don't think you were standing that whole time I think you fell to your knees to
me it's like definitive she was facing the other way and startled because you know like we said it's it looks like a
left-handed person she was found facing the wall mhm on on her knees if she had fallen to her knees after that first hit
and was facing someone she would have fallen all the way down facing the other way you're not doing like a spin after
no you're not just turn and you're not going to turn and try to run into the wall like you're going to try to run out
the door yeah but there's a surpris little thing in that in that autopsy report because before the head wounds so
before that head wound on the left side of her of her skull before even the one above that she was struck in the back
first which kind of confirms the turned around because it was somewhere above her spine in between the junction where
like her neck and her body kind of meat what I hate about this so much is that I'm picturing someone coming out of
the closet making eye contact with Abby aby's already in that spot and doesn't really know what to do she's the person
is just coming around and trying to like almost hook her with the ax to prevent her from being able to get
away what if she didn't I kind of hope she didn't see it coming like if they didn't
make eye contact and also isn't there like a place in your spine you would know if like where it's hit and it kind
of severs your ability to feel it kind of like C5 stay alive is what it is I hope that that's if they hit feel the
pain of everything else I think unfortunately this was like a little superficial in the I would love to
believe that too but this is basically one of those things that just kind of tells us a little more about like the
fact that she was facing the wall when this happened which means either this person like ran out of the closet up on
her or they might have like snuck on her like if she was bent down or getting something out of a drawer facing the the
bureau and they just kind of like creeped up behind her and then whack or and this is going in the direction of if
it was Lizzy she wouldn't have cared if Lizzie walked in the room true so li like chatting holding something behind
her back went about her business if she was being like oh Abby baah baah ba and then W up like your I think she called
her mother bordon mother bordon no no no Mrs bordon bord she wasn't her mother and she didn't like her yeah they didn't
get along which leaning toward if Lizzie did it Abby got hit a lot more she sure
did then the father she 18 to 11 so that's that's a lot there's that and again like I said I don't know I'm no
I'm no longer convinced I have any idea what happened so these are both sides reason that I by Lizzie doing it is the
whole theory of like her father's abuse and all of that and her being pushed to a to a place where she had to defend
herself so in that but in that regard it's like wouldn't he then have more injuries you would think that's the
thing well I I was reading while you were reading all the autopsy reports I was just reading different theories and
I guess there's not a lot of evidence that he was abusive yeah I think it's just like um it's kind of a rumor it's
kind of like gossip to try to justify why someone would do that yeah and actually a lot of people say that she
was his favorite daughter and she was actually treated a lot better than Emma was and he like gave into her requests a
lot more than he gave into Emma interesting yeah I will say though with Abby getting more
wax it was the first crime out of the two so you're got make sure yeah and also it's just like the you need to make
sure that it's done right before it's kind of like when people are repeat offenders and repeat Killers often times
their earlier crimes are the ones that will get them caught because they're the messiest yeah it's true and they need
and if they had the idea I need to eliminate these two people M then I need to make sure this is done I can't leave
any kind of possibility that this wasn't done before I move on to the next one you can take a little more time with
Andrew mhm yeah and especially if Andrew was out of the house in town while this
was happening they could have which they there is that he was time yeah and then
they waited for him to come in and fall asleep and it makes sense cuz there's no
way that he could have I think even if he was sleeping he would have been woken up by this sound she would have right
not that not necessarily that she would have screamed because maybe she didn't but I think just the sound of like
repeated like because they're close those those rooms are not far away each other the uh I think it was Bridget and
somebody else I'm not sure who was with her who discovered Abby's body and they only made it halfway up the stairs
before they saw yeah it was it's that room right at the top of the stair Lally right there you can you would definitely
hear something and it's an old home like you would hear someone bump to the floor
and not only is it an old home there was no electricity no water no nothing so it's even quieter than a regular house
yeah you can't blame it on anything else yeah exactly and going back to how the word strangulation was said yeah in in
the room when we were there I was trying to think of any way that this would work
and the only thing I can think of is could she have been placed in a headlock in any at any point during this and then
the person kind of struck down at her that way that's kind of what I thought but that's also taking away a lot of
Leverage and force it could also just imply like loss of breathing just like the shock like feeling strangled feeling
like you're strangled and also maybe blood was coming out their mouth which could cause strangulation that's true
yeah so I've been watching a lot of house lately so so like I got my theories but there's also you know that
that theory of like the iron flat being used as the murder weapon which is an interesting thing um because they're not
even sure that the hatchet matches all the wounds they think it's a likely Hatchet
but it's interesting that that's not even set in stone but they really go with that like this was an interesting
investigation y'all yeah but the closet thing is wild wild yeah um but back to the rhyme just
to conclude that whatever you think happened if Lizzie did it or not the rhyme has remained and is very wrong uh
it's wrong about the number of times they were both hit it's presuming an axe was used which an axe wasn't even the
thing that they thought was used it's a hatchet which is a different thing always what I like equate with this
crime I'm like oh like you think Lizzie bord and you think AXS and then I think I just recently realized like no it
wasn't even an axe even though we've covered this before my brain always goes there because it's just indoctrinated by
that Nursery lizy bordon took an axe that's like it's you don't say lizy took a hatchet it does not sound me something
that rhymes with wax and that's the only thing that work Hatchet you can't which
a hatchet is much easier to wield than an axe that's the other thing it's so true it's a handheld thing so but it's
also that rhyme is also assuming and telling everybody else that Lizzy is the one who did it not even giving you any
other suspects just Lizzy did it um and like you said when she went to live on the hill in Maple coft kids would sing
it on her lawn and sing it on her front porch um and again if she didn't do it that's like the most horrific nightmare
I could ever imagine didn't you say they also used to throw rotten eggs at her house oh yeah so in um in a in a newsp
paper article called bothering Lizzy grown boys and girls unwelcome callers at miss bordon it was in the Fall River
Daily Globe on May 9th 1902 it said the police were called to the bordon home and led to believe the hill boys and
girls were trampling over the lawn lambasting the side of the boarding home with decayed eggs ringing the doorbell
late at night tying the doors and calling her vile names when Lizzie answered the door the police were unable
to capture the offenders which if she didn't do it that's so [ __ ] like this girl was acquitted she wased these are
like little Rich [ __ ] well what this is is their parents telling them that's Lizzie boron's house she killed her
parents it like they're the ones telling that those kids aren't coming up with it
on their own no where was Emma again when this happened Emma was visiting friends when this happened yeah when the
murder happened or had been gone for like two and I think they live no later in life they spent a lot of time
together they did but then I think there was a big feud between them toward the end of their lives I remember the
original tour that we went on something happened between them and Emma left Maple Croft yeah I think you're right
and you know what we'll go further into that when revisit this case cuz we are absolutely revisiting this case cuz I
have so many theories I want to get into but like we don't have time today and I'm like chomping at the bit just to
talk about all I know so now I'm like we're going to do a whole other thing on this because I'm going to look into like
everything who knows maybe we'll have to go back I know now I'm like and it's it's we can go there it's conceivable
that we can go back so it's like being able to go to the actual place that it happened is a whole different ball game
because Jack the Ripper I was like can we going to White Chapel really quick like I just I want to see these places
like let's go next time you go you just bust it and you're like okay here are the theories all right tell me which
one's right say a name I'm going to go room to room and do an investigation again I think we have to I'm just saying
I think so okay but yeah so that is the Lizzy bordon Tok an axe nursery rhyme yes and should I start with my my first
other nor nursery rhyme this is my second noiser Ren so I kind of love that so that's like let that's a nursery
rhyme but it's more like you said like you know jumping rope song 4 exactly there you go yeah cuz you
say like one two three this is an actual nursery rhyme so everybody knows Three Blind Mice yes the strangest nursery
rhyme ever it really is it's pretty out front with the brutality and the weirdness cuz you're like just topping
off mice's tails yeah don't be doing that so this is actually this is definitely one of those Mery tutor kind
of Nursery R it was produced during her reain yeah a lot of nursery rhymes noiser Rhymes came out during her rign
that is true so many of them are about her yep and a lot of them are just like Sensational and wild um a lot of them
are supposedly talking about her unrestrained use of violence to reinstate that Catholic Church in
England um among those three blind mice definitely stands out is one of the more
explicit like I was saying it's just like right out there um the rhyme first appeared in D I don't know if I'm going
to say this right dud romilia dilia I'm GNA go that did you went for it I did it
yeah um or the second part of music's Melody which is a book of poems and songs that was originally published in
1609 and this is what it originally said three blind mice Three Blind Mice Dame lulon Dame lulon the Miller and his
Merry Old wife wife she scraped her tripe licked thou the knife don't know what the [ __ ] that means but it was
written in Old English and the rhyme doesn't specifically reference violence in this this version of it and given the
language it's like a little difficult to interpret actually at all but later whatever she's doing she seems to enjoy
it if she's licking a knife yeah it seems like there's some some some's Brewing it's a weird visual
but later we got the more commonly version and that's three blind mice Three Blind Mice See How They Run See
How They Run they all ran after the farmer's wife who cut off their tails with a carving knife did you ever see
such a sight in your life as Three Blind Mice and in this version Mary tutor is supposed to be the farmer's wife or the
person in a position of power and the three blind mice are a lot of times interpreted as the three Protestant
Bishops that tutor had blinded and burned at the stake for defying her attempts to reinstate Catholic power in
England [ __ ] so it's pretty gnarly yeah now interestingly this rhyme first appeared as a folk song and according to
Iona and Peter Opie they didn't appear in children's literature until about 1842 and in that case the very thinly
veiled references to violence and their possible connection to tutor actually make sense they're more explicit because
they're intended for adults at that point so but as a children's rhyme it's still conveys a reminder I guess of like
the dangers one can face when you know willfully defying the crown of the church so don't do that yeah don't keep
it that weird don't keep it that weird I suppose because you can be blinded and burned at the stake I suppose so fun
it's I mean you could do anything back in the day and and you could literally do nothing and be accused of something
you could just exist exactly breathing having lungs in your body a woman being any kind of human yeah so yeah that's
three blind mice really cute rhyme always thought it was weird never saying it to my kids yeah there's a lot of
Rhymes I feel like we don't we didn't sing any nursery rhymes to your kids cuz they're all strange yeah we got some
like books when they were little like people would give you books of like nursery rhymes and stuff and a lot of
times I'd be in the middle of reading one at book at bedtime and I'd be like we're going to do another book you know
what I I don't know about this one cuz a lot of them like have like racist undertones to them and they're not even
like subtle like they're like it's right I feel gross reading this so I'm not going to read it to you and we're going
to get rid of this book yeah we're going to go ahead and say goodbye to that it is weird and kind of disturbing how so
many things that are geared towards children yeah are like their roots are very terrifying or just violent violent
racist like even like Grim's fairy tales like some are rooted in dark things or a
lot of them like even I was looking at like some European in worldwide nursery rhymes and they so many of them are
written to terrify kids with the purpose of behave or this terrifying monster is
going to come eat you yes that's just like how people raised their kids back in the day they were just like terrified
them into submission it reminds me of Dwight in the office when he says learn your rules you better learn your rules
if you don't you'll be eaten in your sleep I never even watched the office but I learned that from you and I love
so funny well I have a little bit of a different one I have Goosey Goosey Gander so adorable I bet it has such
aesome Goosey Goosey Gander I didn't even know this one actually really but I don't think I do either do do you know
how it goes I will tell you now cuz I do now but I guess this popular British children's rhyme Goosey Goosey Gander
first appeared in gammer girton's Garland or the nursery par twister I know I love a good
alliteration oh yeah but it was a collection of popular children's Nur Nery Rhymes first published in
1784 and the most common version is Goosey Goosey Gander with shall I wander upstairs and downstairs and in my lady's
chamber there I met an old man who wouldn't say his prayers so I took him by his left leg and threw him down the
stairs I hope the left leg is not about a leg well later versions of this rhyme came to include an additional four Lin
lines it needed a little bit more yeah they like you know what that's not enough it leaves it leaves you wanting
more it did to be honest it did so here you go the stairs went crack he nearly broke his back I'm sure and all the
little ducks went quack quack quack adorable so one popular love it I just picture a child just launching an old
man down the stairs by his left leg and it's like what because he didn't pray cuz he didn't pray he didn't say his
prayers and then the Ducks are like quack quack quack quack to me it was like when it was talking
about the the ladyes chambers and stuff I felt like he was just a perv that they
were like yeah kick you out down the stairs that's why I was hoping it was launched by the third leg so I think you
guys are kind of on to the right the right track there yeah because one popular interpretation of this rhyme is
uh that it contains sexual overtones with the goose symbolizing fertility particularly with the reference my
lady's chamber uh similarly librarian Chris Roberts writes in days gone by Goose was a common term for and he says
prostitute so the early part of the rhyme conceivably alludes to the spread of venial disease oh with lines about
wandering in a lady's Chambers referring to the procurement of a sex worker Services wow and then like you know
throwing them out once the services have been procured yeah yes right but oh no one likes a man who lingers no don't be
lingering she'll throw you down the stairs but that's not the only interpretation another popular
interpretation is that the Goosey Gander rhyme actually tells a story of religious persecution
in England I guess in 1650 there were a [ __ ] ton of brothel around London that
existed on land that was actually owned by the Catholic Church which like conceive that in your mind yeah interes
yeah very ironic but when Henry VI e seized that land and then claimed it for the crown he not only shut down the
broel brothel excuse me sending their customers wandering but he also dealt a very heavy blow to Catholicism
so the reference to the old man who wouldn't say his prayers could possibly be a reference to Catholic priests and
Bishops who were punished for not reading from scripture published by the church of England and for resisting or
defying Protestant Authority So Not only would that explanation be a more complete interpretation of the rhyme
because like the sexual overtones are there but then you get to the end and it does kind of fall off like he wouldn't
say his prayers but uh it would also be in keeping with hazlett's Theory of hidden literacies in this case the
simple cheery children's rhyme is used to explain a major shift in the physical and cultural landscape that removed
power from the Catholic church and it reminded others of the potential consequences of defying Protestant rule
damn Henry VII is just like all up in everything terrible he's just all up in everything anything in history he might
be my Jack the Ripper it's fascinating like London and English History yes you start looking into that
it's hard to stop and there's so many Mysteries like the Ming missing princes that it's so sad it's so so sad found
many my they believe they found the remains of two like child like but they there's no way to verif confirm it right
yeah but they they just believe it to be true but that there's so many like that
the wives like we saw six which by the way too it's so fun it is so fun I loved at the end how everyone was like
standing up and dancing everyone just dances mus is is really fun and that as soon it's like
after that you're just like now I want to know everything like you just can't stop like I actually saw that show right
after we had done a two-parter on Tower of London oh really and so I was like so
fully immersed in that history already that I was like we left and I was rattling off all these facts to my
family and my sister's like who are you going fun when you like hyper fixate on something and you're like let me tell
you everything I know God someone's like what is wrong with you knows all about hyperfixation because every single week
I'll look over at him and I'll just be like do you want to know about submersibles and he's like why he's like
no I don't actually like again sometimes I'll come over and he's like she's going
to tell you about this yeah he's like she's going to tell you about something today just listen like just let her get
through it do you guys have a hyperfixation meal like a food that you just have every single day wear it out
to the point where I don't like it and I have to leave it for a while and then I'll come back to it later so many
people have those and I don't think I have one really yeah cuz I I feel a little bit out of the crowd because
everyone Explorer you're you're a gemin I feel like Geminis are just like whatever do
whatever but every girly on Tik Tok is like this is my hyperfixation meal and I'm like I want one I hyper fix it on
everything like I have a hyperfixation meal music movies books like I hyper fixate on things yeah when I have it
like when I'm in one thing I'm so hyper in it that yeah I have to know everything about it I have to like like
I John showed me ghost the band I knew the entire lore of that band like and three years in we don't really listen to
other music no like in the car with Elena I Len like and this is why we understand your
day list recommendation let's check our day list mine always are mean to me is this one mean to you right now wait oh
mine is anti-depression grief Thursday wow Mine that sounds like what mine usually are mine's 90s Thursday
afternoon actually is less aggressive than and the first song on it is by ghost I
just accurate accurate mine is Nostalgia ax approved Thursday afternoon and the first song is Rock Your Body by Justin
Timber I don't know about that you guys so good oh my God I love that mine is also very
just spot on again cozy granola Vibes Thursday afternoon o cozy granola what's your first song because maybe we have
the same one mine's orange juice by Noah con oh mine's beige by Yol lore I haven't started my uh Rock Lobster B52
uh oh my God I'm verion yet but I'll keep you updated yes please just once a day I'm going to play it to see what it
does to the day see what's going on yeah yeah okay so this one that I chose has a
lot of lore because there's two trains of thought in terms of what this nursery rhyme is talking about but it's Georgie
Porgy have you heard this one yep yep Georgie Porgy putting and pie kissed the girls and made them cry when the boys
come out to play Georgie Porgy ran away Georgie por Georgy and so unfortunately in modern day this nursery rhyme is used
often to taunt boys either named George or boys who are a little overweight because it's talking about him eating
pie and just you know just enjoying the indulgences of Life yeah what's wrong with live God
what is wrong with you but but then he's like non-consensually kissing girls and
making them cry so you're like honestly Georgie [ __ ] off Georgie you're Porgy you're Porgy all right we all we all
know a gey pory unfortunately have a Georgie porgy in uh growing up there was a his name
was should I just out him wow she went first you [ __ ] up he did this to me you [ __ ] up big time he would chase me
like for years and pinned me down and kiss me on the playground and he like recruited people it was reced people to
he recruited tackle you wow there was another kid but yeah they they uh chased me wow where were
the adults when we were children today that school will be shut down right that happened to me in second grade it has a
better ending came up and like tackled me and kiss me and I punched him in the face and so my parents got brought in to
to say she got they I was going to get in trouble until my dad said did he kiss her and they were like he was like did
she did he ask before he did that and they were like well of course not like they're you know they're in second grade
whatever and he was like will be boys is he all right is he going to live and they were like yep and he was like I see
nothing wrong here except for what he did like he was like no one my dad was literally like no one touches her
without her consent she has the right to do anything to defend herself meanwhile
I was told it means he has a crush on you and I'm like there with like I truly had Band-Aids covering my knees for
years of my life because the amount of times I would fall on the pavement and scratch my knees from this is
traumatizing see that and this is why I spent three months in trauma treatment oh yeah [ __ ] a that is such a like
common thing too that people still do is like oh he's mean to you cuz he has a crush on you I never
tell like he's mean to you because he's an [ __ ] like he's mean to you cuzz he's an [ __ ] Don't Go Near him well
then cuz you don't want them to grow up and seek romantic partners that Tre being treated like [ __ ] means he lik he
l no a different way like no he's just being a little dick yeah being an [ __ ] is not my love language not c
not cute yeah all right we're all on the same page yeah the Georgie Porgy hate group okay well it is believed that
Georgie Porgy is based off of George viler the first Duke of Buckingham and King James I of England because the two
are rumored to have been lovers lover lovers so this is a bit of queer history making its way into a nursery rhyme
obsessed King James first Met George in 1614 and he was like oh my God wao this guy is super hot and so he bought George
a whole new wardrobe and many other things which right like are you love bombing is
this a s what's happening here what's going on falling in love you know I love Pretty Woman situation was and George
was super into it so he also began intensely lobbying to be appointed as the Royal Cup Bearer stop which was a
position which which was not a euphemism are we sure that's like a Freudian slip back in the day yeah but
this position if he if he got it which spoiler alert he did it would allow him to speak to the king as they served
drinks at the Royal table and basically just give him a lot of access to the king and obviously like some alone time
I'm sure bearing his cup George also wait till you see this picture I added uh George also started dancing at
masks which were these festive parties thrown in the court and George would move his body in this really enchanting
way showing off his grace and his Beauty and his his physique and he would wear these belly shirts and a skirt uh which
was a very normal costume actually for all of the dancers of that time so I pulled a photo for you to see you're
going to want him George is an enigma we need a lake tree I like to know it for his outfit yes George George is Britney
Spears Toxic oh my gosh really 100% so obviously King James is like how can I resist this man he's so hot and he would
call him steeny which was a nickname named after another man who was said to have like the face of an Angel so his
nickname for George his cupbearer was basically talking about how gorgeous he is so obviously people
are like adorable so it is really nice but King James he felt like he had to speak on the situation
cuz there were a lot of rumors and he was like let me dispel the rumors and so he went and officially made a speech to
the privy court and said quote you may be sure that I love the Earl of beckingham more than anyone else and
more than you who are here assembled I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect for
Jesus Christ did the same and therefore I cannot be blamed Christ had John I have
George heess he this was like a very he was def I love that he embraced this love wow I
just got chills a little bit I know no seriously I love that he's just like JC and John okay yeah George you guys [ __ ]
with Jesus why can't you f with me and George we're adding that to the jacket JC and John JC and John you being shitty
to me about it JC and John yes they also oh God King James and George they would
exchange these really romantic and like seductive sexy letters to one another obsessed letter writing right yes yes
please yeah but then also bring back letter writing and only write what you're okay with future people reading
on a podcast like hundreds of years in the future because they have the letters and we're about to expose some of it
let's go yes King James wrote God bless you my sweet child and wait yes in a letter to George King James wrote God
bless you my sweet child and wife and Grant also he had a wife and a child as you do back then everyone had a it's a
whole had a woman but then you know sometimes they also had a man yeah God bless you my sweet child and
wife and Grant that ye may ever be a comfort to your dear father and husband and then George replied with a letter
that said I naturally so love your person and I adore all your other parts which are more than any man oh
yeah than any one man had so he's like damn Mike's like d Mike's fully turned like headphones off like
CH oh my gosh okay and this is by far I think the sexiest line that has been written in one of their letters because
years later cuz they they had this love affair for over a decade years later King James wrote another letter to
George and he was a little bit more straightforward and to the point he said whether you loved me now better than at
a time which I shall never forget farum where the bed's head could not be found between the master and his
dog W is that not talking about like role play 100% sexy banging baby yeah damn where
were the body parts you couldn't even see them cuz they were freaking flying far
I love the way that people turned each other on and talked each other's Parts up back like there was so much more
effort and like yes thought put behind the words that they chose and it was way more beautiful now it's so
crass now it's like someone just sending a dickpick unsolicited I was in a church once but
like that kind of [ __ ] like I was on a family vacation that was I was in a church was
J and Sabrina it's getting Tor the doors to the church are always open hallelujah oh my God okay so these two
men King James and George they stayed really close until King James well close asn't they were dating they were fully
lovers they were [ __ ] yeah they were [ __ ] until until he died King James did pass away in 1625 and George was
also said to have seduced some women in his time too so he had partners of his own outside of King James it is thought
um but in terms of the nursery rhyme to go back to Georgie porg's nursery rhyme it was Georgie Porgy pting and Pie Kiss
the Girls made them cry when the boys come out to play Georgie Porgy ran away so it's thought that perhaps this could
be in reference to George spending some time outside of his relationship with King James kissing women who potentially
were married and then those men coming an to have a duel and to confront George he's running away like bye he's running
away and he's being protected by his lover King James and he has like no intention of technically being with
these women probably so it's like he he's in love with James right totally so it's like Kiss the Girls make them cry
cuz you're leaving them like you really don't have kissing and running it's it's
a kiss and run and King James did protect George a lot he actually dissolved Parliament twice to keep
George from being impeached wow and then after King James passed away George had
very little protection left and eventually was assassinated by political Rivals wow yeah what a [ __ ] story I
know damn why is there not a movie about this when the whole way that you were picturing or are talking about it I was
picturing it in my head like a movie oh my God it really does feel like it call me by your name where the peaches but
like he definitely has gout so it's a little less hot slightly less hard yeah if you get past the scabies but they
could make it sexy like the mar movie between the gout and the like no hygiene whatsoever package so it's okay there
should be a theater package though where similar to when you go to like Disneyland and Universal and those
certain rides that will like spray a scent at you there should be not that I would ever want to experience this but
there should be some scent scented movies yeah yeah absolutely they should it's like the naked scene and they're
like getting all seduced and just musty like who makes those scents and is like I could put this this and this together
and it will smell like stinky feet you know what I mean good question the jelly be right now because I feel like my nose
is oriented pregnant women pregnant women do it but how there's got to be like throw up buckets right like oh yeah
100% or like the jelly beans like the Harry Potter ones that taste like ear and stuff you're like but how who knows
like on they are that that also brings up so many questions like who you know how artificial vanilla is apparently
made from beaver butt goo who who who decided let me just taste this excretion from a beaver's bum wow this tastes like
vanilla this is really upsetting who made that first move good questions who made that step and who decided to put
horse Hooves in Skittles yeah and who killed the bordons exactly these are the questions
question these are the questions on our new show back of the jacket now I'm back to
our sitcom that we're creating and our sitcom for anyone that doesn't know is Sabrina and I acting out
her life with a two-person laugh track that is just ash and Elena yeah just like the old man in The Muppets in a
balcony somewhere will be yeah boo the first episode can be the uh dickpic in the church it honestly
honestly we should talk later okay yeah let's figure this out we're gonna get George would be into it so would King
James there you go but going back to this nursery rhyme for just a moment uh there is some debate over what or who
this nursery rhyme references so a lot of people believe that it's the story of the Duke George and King James I but
people also said that the line when the boys come out to play was actually added
later and there were no written theories about this nursery rhyme being about King James and George until Iona and
Peter Opie who are folklorists who use modern techniques to understand children's literature and nursery rhymes
they theorized that this was in reference to George and James's Affair so they were the first people to put
like in print and many many centuries decades later that it was about these two but for a long time people
speculated that it was actually about King George ivth who was a larger man who had a lot of sex had a lot of
different women had a lot of different children with those different women he hated his wives and would make them cry
and he loved to fight bare knuckled in these illegal fighting rings so he would fight them and then maybe run away for
his life yeah [ __ ] gu does make sense people like couldn't run away from him because he's the king they have to let
him win you know you're right mhm so that one does make sense but I prefer George and James's love story I like
that way more romantic I love that one yeah so some nursery rhymes have lovely are beautiful yeah cuz we're going with
that it's Canon now but it's Jor yeah that's it okay I can't pick between the two that I'm going to do so I'm going to
do abbreviated for both of them love that okay because Ring Around the Rosie ah a pocket full of posies as did you
say ashes ashes or a tissue a tissue so I the website I found said a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down The
King has sent his daughter to fetch a pale of water a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down the Robin on the steeple is
singing to the people a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down or ashes ashes The Wedding Bells Are Ringing the boys and
girls are singing a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down yeah I never heard a tissue a tissue kind of like it better I
like ashes better I like ashes too and I I think we all know ashes it's easier to say is well because
also over time I think a lot of people adopted this nursery rhyme and like changed it based on whatever was going
on in that Society but as of recently there's been a rumor that this is all about the Great Plague MH and that the
rose ring around Rosies is about like the rashes that people would get that that the pocket full of posies is what
doctors and medical people would use to cover up the stench yep and then Ash's ashes was to indicate the burning and
cremating of all those who died but it isn't true you guys oh I never knew that because cremating was not allowed during
this time also the first mention of Ring Around Rosie doesn't come around until 700 or so years afterwards W yeah
interesting so then like there's just a whole bunch of versions of what could be
but I really like this one what if it's actually a game kind of like spin the bottle because in the 19th century there
was a Protestant dancing ban in both America and England like foot loose like Foot Loose exactly and so kids would
have these like play parties where they would sing and dance and kind of be like
f you um and F and they would sing they would Gather in a circle holding hands singing Ring Around the Rosie and and
apparently they make it a game where when you do We All Fall Down whoever was the last person to fall down had to out
who they crushed on in the circle this is so fun we've been playing wrong this is better right isn't this like a fun
twist that we do yeah I like this um and they would either have to profess their
love for someone in the circle or kiss or hug the person scandalous scandalos I'm thinking about all the people who
would like not fall down so they could kiss their fall down oh yeah I love that yeah so that's I've never heard of that
never heard that I either I was so surprised it's always listed as a nursery rhyme that's associated with
dark history it always there no evidence there's literally no evidence that actually points to it being from the
plague at all wow and now that you said like all those things like weren't they didn't come about until like years and
years later that's so crazy yeah that's nuts okay so then the last one I was going to do is London Bridge is falling
down and London Bridge is falling down falling down falling down London brid falling down my fair lady I couldn't
remember the last line you got it I started it okays I feel like you and I were staring
into each other's eyes too as we were doing it like someone's going to say it I also wonder if the the microphone I'm
sure didn't pick it up but we were all rocking so aggressively to the right and left
um and then like yeah when you were a kid what you would hold hands with someone M and then try to trap them MH
this is how I got my scar on my the bottom of my lip no way I was I was underneath my cousins and they were
trying to trap me and I think I like tried to run out really quickly and I slid into the corner of um a like a wall
oh my God jez you were like I am not being trapped and I didn't get caught and that's all that matters that's all
that matters dark meaning blood and Bridge I won I won blood is gushing down my face but
basically people believe that this is because it took the London Bridge has been built rebuilt attacked caught
fire again Fallen apart so many times that it's kind of a reference to that um and people say that there are so many
pieces of the bridge now in the river below just because ooh like pieces would fall apart like fall off that's so scary
so there was a medeval bridge that was the London Bridge and then it was rebuilt and replaced in
1176 damn which took years to complete and it was during this building of the bridge that a really dark and morbid
TM yeah uh belief it's a supersti it's not real I guess but the idea is that it was a Superstition that the bridge would
not stand unless they made a sacrifice to like the gods and stuff and so they would bury people
alive in the bridge and like brick them in as it was being rebuilt so there is this form of torture from the Medieval
Times called urement which is when a person is encased into a room with no opening or exit and left there to die so
the lyrics that are the key and lock her up seem to point to this and there's a belief that they would trap people in
these Stones there were some articles that say children I I just feel like it's one of those examples of making
things more dramatic and let's make it even worse yeah um and it was basically a sacrifice to the Gods in order to keep
the bridge standing because this bridge has been taken down and actually I think
the there so there's the medieval London Bridge there's the old London Bridge there's the new old London Bridge and
then there's the current London Bridge damn the new old London Bridge was actually like moved Brick by Brick to
Lake havu Arizona why what yeah what did Arizona do to American millionaire billion must
billionaire who was like I want that bridge Arizona was just like can I have it they don't already have enough weird
stuff seriously the London Bridge but so basically you would find some evidence of people having been
brick in and they never have okay here's the best part about this nursery rhyme and it's very
musical so the Vikings they took on these conquests and they would attack they would murder they would take over
cities so this belief is that they were heading towards London in 1014 they were
setting off on their ships and they were getting towards the London Bridge this part I took some creative Liberties
um a man on the ship starts humming a tune under his breath he sees the bridge up in the distance I like it London
Bridge is falling down it's very very quiet and then suddenly next thing he knows others are joining in and by the
time they reached the bridge it was a choir of boisterous deep baritone voices echoing off the waters all rowing to it
rowing and harmonizing to the be their War Musical number and they tried to attack the
London Bridge I am obsessed with that one yeah that's my favorite that is the one the Vikings love musicals they do
they love a choreograph number they're brutal and violent they will murder everyone but but damn they love they
will they will put on a show before they do it yeah they will good for them their
braids just billowing in the wind so those were our weird nursery rhymes and a little bit of information
on Lizzie bordon but we're definitely going to explore more because not only is Elena a ripperologist she is now a
lizology and I'm I'm joining on this one yeah bordon olist let's go let's become
bordon lists together absolutely will be your laugh track for that episod gasp track yeah say more gasping
laughing my gosh oh it's happening all right so we're wrapping up this episode but remember you should go over to the
two girls one ghost feed and listen to that episode where we're going go talk about all of the scary [ __ ] in depth
that we experienced in the house we're going to have audio in there from it video like get ready kind of [ __ ] ready
so with that being said we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it we but
that's so that you don't go listen to two girls when goost feed to uh hear all that
by hear all that by that [Music] good [Music]

Sabrina & Corinne from Two Girls One Ghost join us on this week's episode to talk about the dark histories behind childhood nursery rhymes. Fresh off of our ghost hunting experience at the Lizzie Borden house, we talk about the childhood rhyme and where it went wrong, as well as talk about others that SEEMED so innocent!

Don't forget to check the episode on the Two Girls One Ghost feed where we talk about our ghost hunting experiences! It was WILD!

Thank you to the wonderful Dave White of Bring me the Axe Podcast for research!

References Burton-Hill, Clemency. 2015. The dark side of nursery rhymes. June 10. Accessed February 6, 2024. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20150610-the-dark-side-of-nursery-rhymes.

Hazlett, Lisa A. 2009. "The use of British nursery rhymes and contemporary technology as venues for creating and expressing hidden literacies throughout time by children, adolescents, and adults." Forum on Public Policy: A Journal of the Oxford Round Table.

Opie, Iona, and Peter Opie. 1952. The Oxofrd Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.

Roberts, Chris. 2005. Heavy Words Lightly Thrown: The Reason Behind the Rhyme. Sheridan, WY: Gotham Books.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

The hosts share their ghost hunting experience at the Lizzie Borden house and discuss nursery rhymes with dark histories.

Key points

Ghostly Encounters at Lizzy Borden's House. The group shares their chilling experiences while staying at the infamous haunted location.
The Delivery Guy's Shock. A humorous moment as the delivery guy encounters the ghost hunters in the haunted house.
Trickster Spirit Revelations. The group learns about the trickster spirit they encountered during their ghost hunt.
The Lizzie Borden Case. Exploring the infamous Lizzie Borden case and its cultural impact.
The Rhyme's Evolution. The rhyme about Lizzie Borden has changed over time, reflecting societal views.
The Autopsy Details. Delving into the autopsy findings that reveal shocking details about the murders.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I feel like I know way more now than even when we presented the case.

Reflecting on their deeper understanding after the visit.

9:01WatchMar 18, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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