Liko Kenney /// Part 2 /// 389 | Forensic Files

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let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] d on May 11th 2007 Leo left work at Agway
this is a farm equipment and garden supply chain around 6: p.m. he and his best friend and cooworker and now
roommate Caleb mcau got into Leo's powder blue 1984 Toyota Celica Supra for their evening the two picked up a handle
of vodka and cranberry juice for a little mixer five out of five bottle caps Leo and Caleb drove down Route 116
toward East and traveling at 45 to 47 mph the speed limit in this area is 35 mph but soon a police SUV this is a
Chevy Tahoe that's heading toward them from the opposite direction is spotted so Leo slowed down trying to avoid
getting pulled over driving the Tahoe was none other than Corporal Bruce McKay McKay saw that the registration sticker
on the Toyota was expired officer McKay flipped on his lights made a u-turn and now he's chasing down the Toyota
according to Caleb Leo pulled his car into the first available dirt turnout on the side of routes 116 we have dashboard
footage of this and this video will also be at our website at true Crim garage.com the two sat in the vehicle
while officer McKay called in a request for another unit to provide backup on the call McKay said he pulled over Leo
Kenny Sugar Hill PD heard this call and was quickly in route then officer McKay got out of his vehicle now for those
that have not seen this video online there is no audio for this portion of the video and McKay is just off camera
as he approaches the driver's side window so we can't see him all we know about this portion of the stop is what
Caleb later told investigators Caleb says he observed the following from the passenger seat McKay asked for Leo's
license and registration without telling him why he pulled him over Leo refused and asked that another officer be called
to the scene Caleb says officer McKay refused this request Leo started making calls on his cell phone but failed to
get a hold of anyone and then sudden suddenly Leo sped off leaving officer McKay's vehicle sitting in the dirt off
of the side of Route 116 Caleb says Leo was concerned and Afraid of the traffic stop and afraid of
Officer McKay Leo was in route to his family's property which was not far away at all this because Leo wanted there to
be Witnesses in case something should happen yeah and to be clear he's not speeding at like 100 miles an hour he
just drives off off yeah that's one thing that I thought was interesting about this portion of the video he's
clearly not speeding away but officer McKay jumps in his vehicle and gives Chase he is racing at a much higher rate
of speed in my opinion well right to catch up with him with the siren and lights on just a few hundred yards
before the east in line mck passed Leo and slowed to a stop forcing Leo's Toyota to a halt behind him K turned the
Tahoe around to face Leo's car and motioned for Leo to back up into uh a dirt driveway this is a wide dirt
driveway owned by the McKenzie family Leo gestured out the window with his hand indicating to McKay that he wanted
to to pass or as Caleb would say proceed to his family's property McKay was having none of this meanwhile a gray
Chevy silver pickup truck can be seen in the background of the dash cam footage stopped on the shoulder of Route 116 and
presumably observing all of this Leo backed onto the dirt driveway and McKay paused for a few seconds and then
Advanced his vehicle his bumper physically pushing Leo's car up against a front end loader that was parked there
I think it's safe to say he rammed rammed Leo's car rammed him and pushed him into the this front end loader then
suddenly the audio around this time kicks in and we hear the blaring sound of the siren McKay enters the frame on
the right side striding up to Leo's open window and immediately releasing a heavy
stream of pepper spray forcibly into the vehicle spraying both occupants McKay turns to jog away and then an arm comes
out of the driver's side window holding a handgun shots are fired in Rapid succession and we can hear McKay
groaning and pain then the car driven by Leo backs up turns and drives off to the
right out of the frame the dash cam video ends there but this is not the end of this encounter here's what we know
happened from multiple witness statements one thing that gets thrown in here captain that that may be of some
interest to some is that apparently totally uncharacteristically of Officer McKay he was not wearing his bulletproof
vest on this day yeah he was known to always wear his vest so one bullet went through McKay's arm and four hit him in
his side McKay likely in shock stumbled across the road dripping blood trying to
pull his gun out of his holster and that's when Leo backed up and drove in his Direction running his car right into
the back of Officer McKay Caleb later told investigators that he thought this was accidental after all Leo was likely
at least partially blinded by the pepper spray right but then Leo backed up and ran the Toyota forward right into McKay
now now the Toyota is stuck because this vehicle is now on top of the cop as stated in Bad Blood if the the
first attempt was an accident the second certainly was not and I tend to believe
this I I tend to believe it none of it's an accident I mean before you hit the officer with your car you pulled a gun
and shot him multiple times this horrific event still is not over sadly the other vehicle we
mentioned the pickup truck that was sitting on the roadway a few hundred yards away witnessing this whole thing
had two passengers inside the driver was teenager Gregory P Floyd in the passenger seat was his father Gregory W
Floyd the senior Floyd walked over and grabbed officer McKay's dropped service weapon off of the ground he checked that
it was loaded as he walked toward the Toyota's passenger side and he raised his arm and he shot into the car
shattering the window and hitting the driver Leo in the head and the neck the bullets whistled over Caleb's back as he
bent over his knees terrified Floyd yelled to his son to call for help on McKay's Cruiser radio
Floyd Jr as we're calling him he's not technically a junior grabbed the radio in McKay's empty Cruiser and radioed in
officer down officer down I don't you need to come I don't know where you need to you need to come the police officer I
think he's dead the people that the officer was trying to stop all of a sudden just started shooting at him and
then my dad had me stop and then he tried to help the officer that was on the call now according to Caleb as soon
as Floyd shot Le without warning Floyd ordered Caleb to grab Leo's gun and get out of the car or he's going to shoot
him in the face Caleb was convinced that Floyd would shoot him so he decided to not touch the gun he refused to touch
the gun in fact not wanting to give Floyd an excuse to shoot him which is probably the move that saves his life
[ __ ] man I don't know if I would have been that quick on my head feet to come up with that in that situation
especially when you're you're I mean you're terrified instead Caleb sat in the dirt
outside the car with his hands in the air terrified and in tears Floyd took Leo's gun from inside the car
and then took off his shirt to make a tourniquet for the downed officer so now Floyd is shirtless his huge belly
hanging out holding two weapons both pointed at Caleb dad B when officer Philip Blanchard arrived on the scene
and told Floyd to drop the weapons he had to do so a number of times including using some Choice language before Floyd
complied but saying something like easy son I'm quicker than you yeah is so strange then Floyd and officer Blanchard
hoisted the Toyota off of Officer McKay so that a nurse could give him CPR McKay
had several lacerations on his face including having lost the tip of his nose his skull is fractured he had a
shattered pelvis and of course the gunshot wounds his intestines Spilled Out of a severe wound in his abdomen as
he looked on Greg Floyd said about McKay quote he's [ __ ] the cops yelled at him
to shut up McKay is still alive at this time you know CPR is being performed right you can't have this guy in the
background saying the guy's not going to make it people give up in those situations unfortunately the CPR was too
little too late for McKay who was then pronounced dead at the hospital meanwhile no one at the scene checked to
see whether Leo had a puls at this time he did not and he too was in fact dead and it's definitely a disturbing video
to watch knowing that both these individuals lost their lives that's what was strange for me Captain was going
into it I knew what the outcome was going to be but watching it it was it's still disturbing it just happen so fast
it's it's like chaos happens so quickly you can't really prepare yourself for what you're about to see so let's talk
about Gregory Floyd The Man Who so calmly walked up and shot 24-year-old Leo Kenny in the head the man that's
faster than you are 49-year-old Gregory Floyd was a former Marine and offthe grid backwoodsman he and his wife and
son also named Gregory lived just below the poverty line Floyd had had 16 back surgeries and was relying on social
security disability checks to get by his wife was in a car accident and used a cane to walk and she rarely left the
house The Floyds purchased their property with the proceeds of a disability settlement Floyd got after a
back injury he suffered on the job most of their money went to pay for medications Floyd was diabetic he had a
heart attack in 2006 and was on 22 different medic ation including anti-depressants the older Gregory Floyd
father Floyd had been arrested in Georgia in 1981 for selling PCP and pot and was prohibited by law from owning
Firearms which did not prevent him from keeping lots of guns stashed away at his
home he and his wife apparently were both big gun enthusiasts about 10 years before the
fatal traffic stop the police were sent out to the Floyd property when neighbors
turned Floyd in for firing automatic weapons on his property at night on multiple occasions they told police that
Floyd became paranoid when he took his medications both sets of neighbors appear to be afraid of Floyd obtaining a
search warrant for Floyd's Home Police found six guns this is in a May 1997 search Floyd handed them over without
incident but the next day Floyd threatened to sick his attack dog on and shoot a meter reader who was just doing
his job on the Floyd property when police came to arrest him for this incident Floyd went off on a
rant about his constitutional rights he raved to the cops I know you wear vest so I will have to put it right between
your eyes I'm an ex-marine and I don't miss while police were cuffing him Floyd tried to knee one of them in the groin
he posted $150 bail and later pled guilty to attempted assault of a State Trooper he received a suspended prison
sentence of one to three years on the condition that he stay out of trouble it wasn't until after this conviction that
his felony arrest in Georgia was uncovered which revealed that because he had a felony conviction he was not
supposed to own any guns so he was arrested again and another search conducted of his home resulted in seven
more guns being confiscated somehow Floyd managed to evade conviction for the threats to the meter reader and the
gun possession charges and things seemed to calm down for Floyd until this 2007 shooting of Leo Kenny so he could have
something maybe a couple screws loose or maybe it's just a crazy SOB maybe no screws at all right he he lost all screw
he's held together by duct tape and chewing gum so back at the scene of the officer McKay and Leo Kenny
shootings when officer Blanchard asked Floyd if he was okay Floyd said quote I'm fine that was the 43rd person I've
killed I had three tours in Vietnam I'm a marine I know how to use a gun I don't
know who the F he is he's talking about Leo I don't know who the f is under the car meaning McKay but godamn nobody's
going to run somebody over and just run them down two times right in front of me
I've been around the world and I'm not putting up with that crap this is quoted in the book bad blood I mean I I don't
know like you review this and you feel like you're you're reading a movie script well you know it's a
officer so I I mean it takes a lot of balls to get out of your vehicle with no weapon after you see a officer Gunn down
or no screws as we pointed out right and so um I don't know well the day after the
shootings the New Hampshire attorney general held a press conference that stated that officer McKay's d Cam and
Radio Calls had provided the following information McKay observed a Toyota driving on route6 was speeding and had
expired registration I want to cut in for a minute here I have no idea how McKay
would have saw the expired tags the expiration on these tags right they're they're they're
traveling toward one another it seems like a difficult thing to spot and I know that in some states they don't even
put the tag on the front of the vehicle but that that's just an an aside here right well unless they they do have
computers that can read the license plate is is it possible that something triggered it for him that he
didn't have to visual I got you that makes all he had to do was drive past him you're right I I just wonder about
the technology in an area that has three full-time police officers but but who knows anyway he he's got he's got
supervision either way and he saw that it was expired the the statement goes on to say
when pulled over the driver Leo Kenny asked for another officer then drove away McKay pursued and overtook McKay
then pulled in front of Kenny's car forced it off the road and used pepper spray on the driver and his passenger
Kenny then drew a handgun and shot McKay then ran him over another area man GRE gory Floyd observed the shooting from
his truck he retrieved officer McKay's gun he then shot Kenny when he told authorities Kenny refused to put down
his gun the Attorney General concluded quote Gregory Floyd's actions were Justified based upon dangerous
circumstances confronted with efforts to assist McKay end quote Floyd would not be charged and officer McKay died a hero
I wanted to make sure we read that statement because there's a lot of people that have a lot of questions
speculation and suspicions regarding this whole thing that went down well we have crazy Floyd saying
that he doesn't know who Leo is or McKay but there's some speculation that he actually knew officer McKay yes I was
looking for good proof on that speculation to which I could not find it could you no but I certainly saw the
speculation we're not talking about an area where a ton of people live there and the the other weird thing too so
you'd know the officers well but then you have to wonder does McKay know Floyd right it seems likely Floyd would know
McKay or know of McKay because you only have three officers but there's also speculation that Floyd was leaving from
the same place that Leo Kenny and Caleb had just left what I heard as a rumor is
Leo and his buddy are buying their booze buying their cranberry juice and Floyd sees them and actually calls McKay to
let McKay know hey your buddy Leo is here and he has some booze on him mhm and then that's how McKay uh started
pursuing Leo now again I don't know other than the speculation I've heard in multiple
places I can't find that to be fact well after the funerals for the two dead men
a ground swell of anger and protest began some people believe that officer McKay was hardly the innocent victim
hero While others believe that Leo got what he deserved and still others question why exactly convicted felon
Gregory Gregory Floyd was permitted to shoot someone to death and walk away newspapers demanded the release of
officer K's dash cam footage suspecting that he had antagonized Leo tensions ran
so high that officials they formed a committee to encourage an exchange of facts instead of rumors and grudges the
committee did not take sides but issued a report that said that it's likely both
murders could have been prevented if quote either Leo Kenny had more respect for the law or Bruce McCay had more
skill at Conflict Management end quote or both is where you take that statement a little bit further yeah or if Leo
Kenny wasn't carrying a gun so want to get your thoughts here because we discussed our thoughts a bit on the
first arrest from 2003 now we have this this double shooting here where the first video my very basic and general
opinion of the two the first video Leo is annoying defant to the end he won't let up he's pushing and pushing and
pushing and pushing the officer I actually think that McKay handled the first incident very well I I don't know
that I give him an A+ I give him like a B minus which I think is acceptable right I I have like the a total reverse
of opinion on this situation I almost feel like McKay should have been in total control I I
won't say that he got what he deserved that seems like too cruel of a statement or a thought for me to even have yeah
that is but it really feels to me like this is the reversal where McKay was really pushing the envelope and really
could have just controlled this situation in a much better manner no one had to be killed that day let alone two
people here's a difficult thing though is McKay knows Leo for now several years we now know that his behavior his Antics
his aggression his violence is ramping up so you have to keep that in mind that this officer knows this this individual
very well I question how did he know Leo was there I question was the actual reason uh did he get a call from Floyd
did he pull him over and then see that the the registration was expired and I was able to ask my father retired police
officer retired Detective Ive what do you see in this video and one of the things that he thought was interesting
was when you are following a car and you are the lone officer that you wouldn't make a move to get in front of that car
protocol would be just to follow that car until backup comes or until that car stops we don't see that here that makes
me believe that he knew Floyd was behind him that he knew he knew Floyd and possibly friends with him because he
makes a maneuver as if there's two officers there and there wasn't then you get in front of Leo and then you ram his
car now I don't know if that was an accident or if that was on purpose but again you know this individual you're
the officer you're the one that's trying to you should be controlling the situation not escalating it not throwing
gasoline onto a fire if you know that this individual is not stable maybe not mentally stable you are throwing
gasoline on that fire by ramming that individual and I think you can tell that by the passenger in Leo's car and in the
eyewitness and then you go in again instead of waiting for officers instead of uh waiting for backup you go in
instead of trying to talk to Leo you go and pepper spray him throwing gasoline on the fire
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joining us in the garage and thanks for telling a friend thanks for telling a friend that's right right I got a few
thoughts here Captain mhm and you're going to hear every one of them we don't have time for your
thoughts this is just like a weird weird colliding of Worlds here for me cuz what I feel like is we have four
people in the middle of the situation well five if you include uh the younger Gregory Floyd who was driving the
truck the real victim to me seems like this Caleb individual that's sitting passenger seat in Le 's car he seems
completely terrified and almost Frozen in the moment not really knowing what to do not knowing how to react and here's
the other thing had we had other individuals just not react it wouldn't have gone this far I feel like we have
McKay jumping his vehicle in front of Leos because he's coming up at the end of his jurisdiction at the line that
cuts off his jurisdiction I almost feel like this is a situation where McKay thought you know what I'm going to pin
him down inside my jurisdiction because he fled the scene I'm going to do some uh property damage to his his vehicle
and I'm going to get out I'm going to pepper spray this kid and when the other officer shows up which I know is in
route according to my radio or at least according to what we've been told was said the audio is conveniently not there
or maybe inconveniently not there I don't know how you want to spin that but the easiest thing to do would have
been like you just said before the break to continue to pursue Leo Kenny he's going to run out of gas or stop
eventually we know according to Caleb that he was intent on going to his family's property you could have simply
followed him there stayed inside your vehicle and when the other officer arrived the other officer could have
taken over the situation but possibly the other officer gets killed because I think there's enough evidence to prove
that there was something happening with Leo Kenny mentally um with his mental health I think the look The the victims
are the family of these two individuals because both their deaths are caused by cause and effect and and
adding fuel to the fire and never backing down it's almost like these two bulls that were on a collision course
for the last four years right and that's that's what I'm getting at cause and effect I think the most effective way to
control the situation would have been to continue to to follow the suspect right
and wait for the other officer to take over the situation we can't get into wha ifs after that we we just don't know um
but there is protocol that could have been followed and I think that McKay went out of his way to not follow that
protocol I think he went out of his way to really turn into a bully in this situation where I didn't see that in the
2003 arrest the other thing too and I I want to throw these other stories aside because I really wanted to form an
opinion on what I thought of the situation inside of what we see on camera inside what we hear from the
witness statements later I didn't want to get into this whole Floyd and McKay were friends I couldn't I couldn't find
any proof that the two of them were friends it's just some speculation and I saw a lot of speculation on that the
issue being here is I don't think the two types line up well to be friends one it doesn't seem like Floyd had any
friends it seemed like it would be very difficult to be a friend of his either way it's a two-way street yeah the thing
I argue is that the community is so small that that it would be almost impossible not to think of them as
acquaintances and then the other thing too is we have on the reverse of that M who by most accounts his personality was
he was black and white he was wrong and right and he wouldn't I don't know that he would have been friends with
somebody um of Floyd's character or past so that one seems a little weird to me and that's why I wonder if we just have
a weird situation where three Worlds Collide where you have Kenny who seems to be spiring out of control and then we
have M who with inside this situation is obviously losing control and then Floyd
who knows when's the last time he had any control at all it's just a weird weird tragic situation all foed with bad
filled with bad behavior and fueled with bad blood well and to back up the cause
and effect we have a retired office officer saying hey that's a maneuver to get in front of the person that's not
something You' do unless you had backup so he saw that as being wrong he saw ramming Leo's car as being a way that
you're escalating the situation and then you get out you're not protected if you
were so fearful why isn't your gun drawn uh why aren't you trying to talk to the
individual you do none of that you go up and and pepper spray so those are multiple things that retired police
officer which will normally always go to bat for a police officer saying those don't make sense to me those aren't
those aren't actions I would have done yeah and I I tell you what this might not be a a popular opinion to have but I
do believe that the the Floyd shooting Kenny I agree with the decision that it was justifiable I also think that really
that committee broke it down to the best of what what I believe yeah but wasn't that ruled within like 24 hours yeah but
I'm not I'm not saying I never said that I agree with the time frame in which You
released your your decision I just agree with the the decision yeah right my twoo
my two problems is again because you have a grieving family take a little more time try to be a little more
understanding of the situation and on top of that when you release this V uh video footage why is the audio
compromised was this compromised by Officer McKay or was this compromised by the committee who released this video MH
because that to me seems suspicious and and I think uh the Kenny family has the right to go hey this
doesn't this doesn't make a lot of sense on the same token we have a family that has been dealing with the Antics
and the behavior and I think the mental instability of Leo and I and I wish again we just don't talk
about mental health enough enough and I think sometimes when and somebody's going down the wrong path we we start
thinking that that's alcohol abuse or drug abuse when it really might just be uh imbalance and somebody that needs
mental health help yeah I I do like that committee's decision or or at least their statement of what they said in
regards to both of these murders could have been prevented if either one of these individuals would have behaved
differently or had more respect for the law or each other right you know I think
that that is really what I see here as well and then my thoughts on the audio itself I almost feel like I would like a
statement in regards to that why it is what it is on the the public view of the dash cam footage I almost my my own
personal belief would be that if it was compromised before it was released I feel like they would just have removed
all of the audio rather than have it kick on at the end to notify us that hey it's it's not there and now it's here I
actually don't believe it kicked on at the end I mean I'm telling you it did unless somebody went in it to the video
I've watched it when when it starts to fade in it's it's almost like uh there's a gate almost like there's a gate on the
audio or that the that the audioos just turn way down and because something happens whether it's the gunshots or the
sirens blaring that that's where why you can hear that loud peak of sound but those low-level of a car driving or
McKay talking and radio radio something in would be low enough of a volume that we wouldn't be able to hear right and
that's what I'm getting at I'm wondering if that is something that McKay would have had control over inside the vehicle
yeah I just wish either one or both of these individuals would have had more respect for each other and and there's
no reason either one of them should have lost their lives over this but I guess that's not the complete end of
speculation in regards to to officer McKay because there's some discussion out there that he may be involved or
have some knowledge of another case that we've talked about several times on this
show and that's The Disappearance of Mara Murray and True Crime garage was lucky enough to speak with Aaron Lin
someone who has spent a lot of time looking into the mara Murray case [Music] and I want to thank you for taking the
time to speak with me you're the host of 107° a podcast about the missing person
Mara Murray and one of the leading experts on this case I appreciate that how did you get involved in the mar
Murray case it was sort of a slow process process slow build but I actually was on the track team with Mora
we weren't friends but I remember when she disappeared and then a few years ago I
saw that there was this podcast and I started following up and trying to see like where the case was and learning
more and saw that there was a lot of misinformation out there and thought I might be able to help in some way and
what's your degree in itical science and I have a masters in quantitative methods
in political science and I'm ABD in a PhD program so this was just kind of a labor of love yeah I mean I think that
there was a lot of things that I identified with with the Murray's and the idea that my family
could be going through the same thing was sort of a horrifying thought so um that was definitely part of it as well
so when did Bruce show up on your radar as you looked into the marur case maybe like a year or two
into it I was looking through the dispatch logs and I saw that there was this officer who was unresponsive and at
a at a motel like around 9:30 the nightm disappeared and I thought oh well Mora was looking for a motel maybe I'll maybe
this has something to do with something and so I looked other places where he was in the log and saw that he seems to
have dropped everything that he was doing the minute after the 911 call came in from Faith Westman where they first
reported Mor's accident and from that point from 7:28 forward he was essentially off radio and
unaccounted for so that's what was the first thing that made me a little bit curious about what he was doing Samara
rexor car in 2004 M there's neighbors and we know there's a bus driver that is calling 911 to report this wreck right
this officer Bruce McKay is responding to a suicide call yeah so it was a pretty serious one too because the guy
had had his guns confiscated by police earlier in the day and there's actually a note in the log that says they don't
think that they got them all so then later on in the evening he's threatening suicide and may have guns and may have
um some anger toward police so I would think that that's a situation where you know it's pretty big emergency do you
know what time that call came in so that call came in just before 720 I think it
was either 719 or 717 or something but McKay was the first officer dispatched and that was at 720 so they dispatch him
to respond to this uh suicide call do we know if he would have passed Mara on the
route to this suicide so there's no way to really know where he was when he was dispatched um but there is some evidence
to suggest that he may have been in Woodsville because he made a call earlier in the night around 7:08 p.m.
that appears to be a call to butson Liquors which is in Woodsville so that doesn't mean he was
certainly doesn't mean that he was in Woodsville but he may have been and then you say that he he goes off radio around
what time uh so he's not heard after after he drops whatever he's doing and goes
somewhere else at 7:28 p.m. he's not heard from for two hours and dispatch contacts him and he communicates that
he's at a motel but then doesn't communicate why and isn't responsive when they try to get in touch with him
again so basically the idea once he hits your radar is you see that there's a cop
working in the department that should have been investigating this crash I don't know if he should have been
investigating it necessarily but I do think it's quite a coincidence that he he cleared out of this call that he had
been on his way to for 7 minutes seven or eight minutes before clearing it so something had to have happened or I I
mean he might have run out of gas like anything could have happened but if he cleared it for a reason that was work
related the only explanation would be that he was going to Mor's accident because there's nothing else that was
occurring at the time nothing so we know that multiple officers were dispatched to this call right is there any
explanation of why he would be dispatched to this call and then not show up uh not that I'm aware of I mean I
think it's possible they just decided not to send him and send somebody else in his place like within 15 seconds of
him clearing it there was another dispatched officer that was sent out so it seems like they wanted three people
there right and um and as to why why this third officer the fourth really and not McKay I don't I don't know I mean I
guess you probably know a little bit about McKay's personality at this point maybe it's not the best situation to
send him into uh there could be a lot of reasons but there's no we don't know the
answer but it's on record that he was cleared from the call yes we do he was he was well it just says it was cleared
so it the implication is that he was cancelled out of the call and we we don't know why and I actually went to
the Littleton Police Department and got the police report of that incident just to make sure that there wasn't something
wrong in the log and maybe he did show up but that wasn't the case there were only three officers and they were the
other three officers that were listed in the log mck did not show up right but are you saying that the department told
him not to uh I don't know whether they told him not to or whether he um chose not to for
some reason the problem is that the dispatch logs are a little bit hard to interpret the shorthand of and
so I don't want to I don't want to assume too much but it does say in there that there was an
officer that was had referenced that he was covering a town and asking for another officer to come out it seems
possible that some one of the officers was asking to have another officer be sent in his place place and it just so
happens that that is what happened the first police officer is on the scene with the mar Murray crash at what time
at 7:46 according to the dispatch log and we have no known whereabouts of Bruce McCay for roughly two hours yeah
and then for the rest of the evening as well so even after he he did communicate
to dispatch that he was at that Motel after that he didn't respond either and he never there's no record of him
signing off his shift or anything like that so pretty much the rest of the night we don't know where he was now did
they have to return vehicles at the end of their shift or they did they just drive home in in their own vehicles that
I'm not sure honestly um I'm not sure so other than this call that he was supposed to attend and he never showed
up and then we have no record of his whereabouts other than he claims he was at a hotel uh with no explanation why he
is there it it seems like he couldn't tell his Department was at the hotel because
I was taking a nap but other than that and other than his behavior towards because his behavior
towards Leo was not the only person he was aggressive towards there was other reports what else what other information
do you find interesting about Bruce well I think that for anyone that knows about
the morar case there's all these questions that don't seem to add up like the timeline and whether or not there
was another officer on scene uh before the first official officer arrived and how Mora disappeared so quickly why
eight firefighters two cops and a neighbor all searched West of the accident and no one even did a
cursory search of the East which was the direction that Mor was heading and that
happened to be McKay's jurisdiction so when you when you sort of plug in McKay and overlay him in this whole
in the whole situation some of these things start to make sense how many eyewitnesses do we have claiming that
they saw a officer at the scene of the crash before the official officer showed up at the crash so just one that I'm
aware of that's witness a so she's the one that drove by approximately 10 minutes before the first reported
officer and said that there was the police SUV nose to noose with the Saturn one of the other things she said was
that she she saw that vehicle a total of three times twice it passed her going in
the same direction on the left and the third time was at the accident scene for that to have been possible for
it to have passed her twice it had to pass her go off somewhere and then come back and double back one thing that
could potentially explain how how and why that might might have happened is if McKay is heading to to this other call
to this Littleton call he hears this accident come in over the radio and says hey I'm right in the area I'll go go to
that he could have doubled back and that's when she sees him the second time and and then the third time was
obviously the accident but the timing works out pretty perfectly for for that to have been the case but we have no
evidence of Bruce radioing in and saying hey I can go to this no we don't but one
of the things that I think I don't want to say like about this Theory but is different from some of the other
theories that have been postulated in this case is that it is potentially falsifiable and you can follow up on it
because what we do know is there's a 25 minute recording that the police have in
Mor's file that has all of the dispatch chatter on it from the time that the um presumably from the time the 911 call
came in for the next 25 minutes so from 727 to 7 52 I guess right and if he cleared it at 728 there's got to be some
chatter there they they refuse to release that recording right now uh it's unclear why they refuse to release a lot
of things yes right which is unfortunate because it might answer this question it
could also answer some of the timeline questions uh regardless like this is something that can be followed up on
well like you said if he passed this witness a to head to the suicide call then another call comes in and Bruce
then thinks I'm right around the corner there's other officers going to the suicide call let me double back passes
witness a again gets to the scene but now once he makes contact or once he arrives at
the scene with Mara this would give him a very small window about 10 minutes to leave the
scene yes I mean it's it's it is short but something something happened and um you know 10 minutes is it's not an
insignificant amount of time really could you tell me off the top of your head how many people were calling into
911 at the time of the crash uh there were two two calls there was two and then out of all the people that you've
talked to is do we have any other eyewitnesses other than those two making those calls not that I'm aware of no
because so we have no other neighbors that were possibly looking outside their window well there was uh there were the
morat they were sort of looking out sporadically they weren't like focused and staring the whole time but they they
did look out a few times and see see somebody walking around the car see they actually saw the car being moved right
during the 2 911 calls though we have uh there's two couples two married couples
that are making the calls mhm so we we have at least a total of four people watching the scene pretty
intensely or or less intensely but my point being is that you have a 10-minute window that's not that large you think
that these individuals would keep checking out their window nobody ever reports anything that suspicious but why
would you if another officer showed up was there for 10 minutes left and then you next time you looked out the window
there's another officer you might not even know that that's a new officer exactly it like I think who better would
be able to hide in plain sight and not necessarily um stand out it's just they look out their window they see blue
lights an officer comes to their door they don't have any reason to think that it wasn't the same officer that they saw
10 minutes before when they looked out their window do we have any evidence uh of sexual assaults that
Bruce might have been responsible for or any violations when he has pulled over other individuals I mean so there
were I know that there were a number of complaints about him I don't know how typical it is for any given officer
to have a series of complaints I mean I'm sure they all have some um right but I think that his tended to be instances
where he failed to deescalate situations and he was certainly um reprimanded for breaking protocol a
number of times and I mean not to be insensitive but he sort of met his demise as a result of breaking protocol
a number of times right Fen his own rules be making up the law instead of enforcing it yeah operating outside of
his jurisdiction um using his own personal vehicle to police stuff that really maybe should have given them a
sign that he shouldn't have been a police officer but uh but then besides that yeah he did have a restraining
order uh taken out against him by his wife for domestic violence and as a result he shouldn't have had a gun at
all which is a problem and according to frankonia police they quote misplaced that
record it disappeared yeah it's funny how audio has disappeared with Bruce McCay and now these records dis
disappear and we have really no knowledge if if if the call to the suicide was canceled or if it
disappeared and then and then he goes off radio for multiple hours comes back back on radio with no
clear reason why and then he disappears again correct and so like you said there
was possibly some domestic violence in his past do we know if Bruce had any uh substance abuse issues
um I I'm reluctant to to talk about that because I I don't know for sure right I have
there are some indications that that could be the case but it's it's really impossible for me to say any
other thing during your investigation of the marur case anything else that has stuck out to you about Bruce McCay um
yeah there's so I don't know if you read the part of about him being a a prosecutor for for the town and for the
state so Not only was he a police officer but he also prosecuted cases and called himself as a witness isn't that
like a conflict of interest yes it is and I don't think there are any other states that do that but in New Hampshire
you can still be a a prosecutor and a police officer even despite the fact that you don't have a law degree so you
can be a prosecutor you can be pretending to be a lawyer without a law degree right and without being held to the same
standards as barred lawyers would be and all of that stuff but anyway so he he would actually make money with every
arrest so because he can he can arrest he can charge them and then he he makes the money Prosecuting them right so I
think in that Boston magazine article it said that he he had like 300 stops compared to the other two officers
combined 11 and yeah I think part of that is some obsession with being in authority and a
power trip and maybe some sadistic Tendencies but also he made money it was just like
basic like he just wanted to make money too right so I think that you know when I when I think about what could have
happened if he did encounter her that night I mean did he try to arrest her for leaving the scene of an
accident when she was just trying to make a cell phone call or anything anything he could have arrested her for
but we don't have so we don't even know if he showed up to tomorrow scene and called that in exactly but that could be
on the audio file of the dispatch log that the cops are are not disclosing to the to the public could be anything else
that you have uncovered about Bruce McCay um so far there's a lot of rumors and I'm
reluctant to talk about the rumors because they are just rumors I'm fine with the speculation I mean we're going
forward knowing that they are rumors is there one that you can throw out well for this is not a rumor he he did
actually take out a second mortgage on his house 3 days later okay um after she disappeared and then an additional line
of credit for I think $110,000 a month later that could be entirely unrelated like I think 2004 the
interest rates were pretty low like historically low so right I mean it could mean nothing at all but I did I
did think that was somewhat interesting and as far as I can tell and from talking to people in his world they're
not sure where that money went or what it was for so that's something that I would if I
had the ability to I would look look into further and then about that specific Hotel I mean he was a single
guy and he was known to stay at that hotel from time to time not really making any judgment there
but it is a place that he seemed to frequent with with um female friends yes but like actual like uh females he'd go
on dates with or whatever um are these paid female friends from what I have been told they
may have yeah they may have been transactional I don't know why I'm dancing around this but because it's not
proven and I I want to be really careful about that but right but yeah they people that worked there had noticed
that he he stayed there well and it's it's weird too you wonder you know infidelity is is very high when
it comes to officers um well he wasn't married at the time either so right but but I'm
saying the ones that are married the the rate of infidelity is pretty high so it's so what's weird to me is you don't
hear from your offic there you don't hear from your officer that doesn't show up to a scene for 2 hours when you do
hear from him he's basically says oh by the way I was at this hotel then you don't hear from him for
the rest of the night to me that would be like some red flag yeah but if this hotel was
something that dispatch knew that McKay would frequent or other officers would go to from time to time then when he
calls back in after two hours and hey I was at the hotel they go oh well we know
why he was there you know what I mean like yeah it seems funny to me that he's coming back and saying hey I was at
that hotel and it doesn't giant red flag for the Department to go okay well that's great that you're at the hotel
why why were you there for two hours why didn't you show up to this call right so
I did hear from Chuck West last year he he did explain to me that McKay was at what he told me was that he was there
that night because he was responding to a theft that had been reported and that's why he wasn't on radio and that's
why he was in in the motel that night so I pulled the records for that incident and it had actually occurred
several days before and uh McKay had filed that report Away by Monday afternoon and so I
don't know if officer West just didn't maybe he confused the police report date with
the uh with the incident date right but he he hasn't responded to my follow-up questions
yet um but when I when I got those reports the what I noticed is that there were more than a few times that McKay
called in at that motel and for walkthroughs late in the evening right and I don't know what a walkth through
is I like my I always interpreted that as when somebody comes home and they see like their door is a little a jar right
and they have the the cops like go through and clear basically make sure that there's no bad guys hiding out
somewhere but I don't know what that means for a hotel necessarily yeah maybe possibly the same thing yeah maybe and I
I know that they did have a bar in a restaurant at that point too they don't anymore but right so it could be a
situation like I know in my small town that there was a restaurant that was connected to a bar that was connected to
a hotel and and that was the primarily primarily a place that truckers and a lot of people coming just for the night
would visit so cops would multiple times a night especially on like Fridays and Saturday nights do walkthroughs of the
bar yeah so so I think I guess that's probably what it is um it's a little unclear but yeah which is tough because
when you're looking into this missing person case and you have a couple things that don't sit well with you you think
that these would be answers that uh department for me okay we have this investigator poking her head around
and bringing up some things to our attention why not just give her the answer I don't know I don't know and
unless you can't well that's possible but I do know that last uh when the oxygen show came out there was a a
person who who came forward with a tip after seeing like the first episode I think and it had to do with McKay and
somebody that lives up in the area and the police took two and a half years to call her back wow yeah and so
and just my impression from speaking to them I believe that they believe that no cop could ever have
anything to do with anything nefarious right but I think that sometimes their bias gets in the way a little bit and
they don't want to look into it because even just looking into it perhaps is offensive in some in some way no I think
there's a lot of cops that they're good guys they're solid guys with solid morals just like my father was a a
street cop and then a detective for many years and when you bring these things to
his attention and having him look at Bruce McKay's videotapes it doesn't make any sense to
him and it almost boggles his mind because that is not his personality that's not his set of moral standards
that's not why he wore the badge to Serve and Protect so it becomes this this thing that they can't even it's
hard for them to wrap their head around right and then they become very defensive of officers in almost every
scenario when I sent the videos to my father about this case I was expecting a laundry list of what Leo did and what
the Bruce did but within his rights as an officer and that is not the feedback I got the feedback I got was these
actions don't make a lot of sense yeah and I mean obviously law enforcement as a topic is very divisive in the mmory
world but and of course you always have those people that think that all cops are Sinister and the other side thinks
all they're all Hees yeah but I think if nothing else what the McKay Leo situation proves is that there are two
sides to law enforcement and there are two sides in that area and one of them that was on duty the night that Mora
disappeared is it likely or not likely that Bruce McKay was involved in The Disappearance of Mara Murray I think
that the most likely outcome is like statistically speaking is probably something we've never heard of and a
person whose name we've never heard but of the theories that are out there I think that this one at least
possible holds a little water it it does and I think it's possible that answering
some of the questions about what ha what he was doing that night could potentially lead to answers about Mora I
think that there is circumstantial evidence for sure that he was headed to her accident and that fact even the
detectives in her case have not disagreed with me about they just say that there's no evidence that he was at
her accident right so there possibly could be evidence that would show was that again like we said there that he
cancelled him being dispatched to the suicide call rerouted himself to go to this crash scene shows up at the crash
scene we know that she's in a state that she didn't want law enforcement there even if he did even if he did show up at
the at the scene there's no evidence that he did anything tomorrow but I think it's something that can be
followed up on and should be followed up on and I think almost the worst case that I think is perhaps the most
possible is that he did show up to the scene she wasn't there he kept going but they don't want to let that out because
of his reputation right because of how it could potentially like blow up in their face well and potentially they
don't have answers because Bruce is deceased we we do not have answers and possibly we'll never know what he was
doing at that hotel for about 2 hours and then what he was doing the rest of his shift do you know what time roughly
his shift ended that night uh I believe that he was on the 4 to 11 or um yeah but it's it's unclear because he
he never doesn't actually sign off so I'm not I'm not positive so it's almost four hours three and a half four hours
of his shift that he's unaccounted for and if if that was my employee I would want to know where they were and
what work they were doing all right Aaron thank you so much for joining us here in the garage what's the best way
for a listener to dive into your investigation of mar Murray probably the podcast it's called 107°
[Music] moreor what a interesting case mhm do we have any recommended reading this week here we go
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Liko Kenney /// Part 2 /// 389

Part 2 of 2

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Brief Summary

A traffic stop leads to chaos, two deaths, and questions about police conduct and mental health.

Key points

A Fatal Traffic Stop. On May 11, 2007, Leo Kenny's traffic stop escalated into a deadly encounter with police.
The Aftermath of Violence. Both Officer McKay and Leo Kenny lost their lives in a tragic series of events.
Gregory Floyd's Justification. Gregory Floyd shot Leo Kenny, claiming it was justified to assist Officer McKay.
The Role of Officer McKay. Officer McKay's actions are scrutinized for escalating a volatile situation.
Mental Health Considerations. The discussion highlights the importance of addressing mental health in law enforcement.
The Disappearance of Bruce McCay. Bruce McCay's whereabouts are unaccounted for during critical hours of the investigation.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

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0:08WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

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