Keep the Faith | "Murder in the Orange Grove" | "48 Hours" Podcast (Episode 8) | Forensic Files

[Music] since his temporary release from prison in April 2021 Crosley green was trying
to make every minute count okay no all right you know I always wanted this not probably I always
wanted this he met a beautiful woman named Kathy spikes who turned out to be the love of his life I mean we wake up
in the morning laughing who laughs at 5:00 in the morning besides us you know it's a whole thing of the genuine that
he has in his heart it won't do anything but gravitate me to him more and with faith in the face of uncertainty they
decided to get engaged crazy about kissing you know what I'm saying boy it's okay hey come on do it
come on every moment seemed special Crosley was spending time with over 10 grandchildren most of whom he had never
met until his release he had a good job as an advanced machinist working with co-workers he liked and he became an
active member in his church where he enthusiastically sang with a choir with me walk with my father
you are with freedom however limited was looking good on Crosley green how long would it
last on March 14 2022 almost a year after his release the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in
Jacksonville Florida ruled in crosley's case the 11th circuit essentially decided that the evidence of Innocence
that was withheld would not have made a difference at his trial it was the worst
possible decision for Crosley as crosley's attorney Keith Harrison explained it the 11th circuit court
cided with the state of Florida ruling that the prosecution's failure to disclose those withheld notes would not
have made a difference in crosley's trial crosley's conviction would be reinstated which meant Crosley could
once again be taken from his family and returned to prison I can't say what going to happen
can't no one say what going to happen all I do I get up and I pray for another day for more hours to be with my family
but crosley's fight wasn't over yet his attorneys decided to appeal this time to
the highest court in the land well we'll keep fighting there are a number of uh um additional appeals we
can file but we will take the case to the Supreme Court um but we certainly we're certainly not going to stop I
you to with I'm 48 Hours corespondent Aon morard this is murder in the Orange Grove the troubl case against Crosley
Green episode 8 keep the [Music] faith when I heard that the 11 circuit court of appeals had ruled against
Crosley I was first just shocked intellectually I knew it was a possibility but I had never let my mind
go there I mean how does a man who spent more than 30 years in prison and then freed returned to a life behind bars
there are certain rules that have to be met in order for a case to be granted relief at the federal level and those
rules make it very difficult to do so Professor Kenneth nun a visiting law professor at Howard University sat down
with me later to try to make sense of the 11 circuit Court's decision as Professor nun explains the circuit
judges found a procedural error they ruled that the issue of the prosecutor's notes should have been properly heard
first at the state level that sounds like a technicality it was a technicality and the problem is that he
can't go back now to the state courts to present this this way and it sounds like
he's pretty much finished in the federal court too there's just one other court which is the US Supreme Court that's it
and how often does the US Supreme Court take a case like this the US Supreme Court doesn't have to take any case most
of the cases that appear before the US Supreme Court go there by what's called a rid assary or cert petition you have
to file aert petition with the US Supreme Court and ask them to take your case and you have to say look the reason
why you should take this case is because it's important crosley's lawyers Keith Harrison and
Jean Thomas knew their last shot to get Crosley a new trial was to petition the highest court in the land and they
didn't go alone Harrison said that over 100 prominent law professors five former
state supreme court judges from States like Texas Missouri and Mississippi along with a group of current and former
prosecutors wrote amas briefs in support of Crosley green these are legal documents filed by people and
organizations who aren't actually part of the case but who feel strongly that a case like crosley's presents issues that
should be heard by the US Supreme Court a lot of people were aware of whose case
and they kind of understood what issues were at stake one of those prominent law
professors was Professor n he feared that the 11th Circuit Court decision would make it easier for other
prosecutors to withhold evidence from defendant it's a real serious problem that we see when cases come up and there
is prosecutorial misconduct and it appears as if the courts do not enforce those rules
against the prosecutor that makes our criminal legal system unfair and it harms our society as a whole and
it undermines the rule of law the Supreme Court says it receives approximately 7,000 to 8,000 petitions
every year hearing only about 80 of those cases almost two years after Crosley walked out of prison he got his
answer Keith Harrison Jean Thomas and the crow and Morin legal team didn't want C to hear it over the phone and
they didn't want him to hear it alone on February 27th 2023 they asked Crosley and his family
to meet in a conference room at the Holiday Inn in Titusville Florida good to see you crley good to
see you good see it was a somber Keith Harrison who shook crosley's hand that morning and then led him to a table
draped in a black tablecloth with several chairs around it Crosley took a seat and his legal team who recorded the
discussion filled in the chairs around him sh how you doing to Crosley sister Shirley White his brother o Conor green
and his son schuma Stokes then entered the conference room and took their seats that's when Harrison broke the news all
right well look thank you for for coming in I will just get right to it the Supreme Court is not going to hear
our case so they have denied our petition what happens next is that notice will go to the 11th circuit and
at some point the 11th circuit will issue a mandate reinstating Cy your conviction MH I was not in the room for
this meeting and looking at Cy on video it's hard to read his facial expression here he he seemed focused just trying to
absorb what he was hearing he slowly nodded his head in understanding why do my brother have to
continue going through this crosley's older sister Shirley White took the news hard is y'all going to send him back to
prison for a crime he didn't commit y'all going to take him away from his family again he took him 33 years
yall going to do it again to my brother it's un it's not jti it's not right you're right it's not
right who to say I'm going live another 5 or 10 years who that any of us going to live another fact
you the system failed us and in that difficult moment Crosley assumed the role of Papa again he stood
up behind Shirley rubbing her back to console her I truly believe that we all going to be together
one day we all going to be together one day not like this brother Shirley said not
like this brother Crosley then looked over at his little brother ok' Conor who was sitting
next to Shirley crying and wiping tears from his eyes as well Crosley always the
stoic Strong One cracked you have show me a lot since I me [Music] home don't let this it to
you it was very difficult to watch crosley's family deal with yet another blow for crosley's son schuma the
thought of losing his father again to the system was inconceivable he didn't hold back his
anger and frustration as he left the table and stood by the conference room door you ain't the only one doing time
we doing time right with you we doing the time with you you know what I'm saying it's a
family thing and now it's getting torn apart again now we got to open these scabs and all of this oh we know it was
you know was a possibility but now it's here no my kid grandkids all of that everybody got to
go back through this again got to go back down this road man that hurt man that hurt as Crosley went over to
embrace schuma schuma started to cry let me bab there was no time to fall apart Crosley his family and the lawyers had a
public press conference to get through good afternoon and thank you for joining with us today it was live streamed on
Facebook from the same room at the holiday in several people joined the press conference in person seated in
chairs facing a Podium Crosley and his family were seated at a table behind the podium crosley's fiance Kathy was there
in the crowd supporting Crosley and his siblings and son during this hard time Professor Kenneth nun was present as
well as Wilton dge and William Dylan the two men wrongfully convicted in Bard County by Florida prosecutors in the
1980s Keith Harrison broke the news to the public this is a tragic day not just for Crosley green not just for the Green
family but for all of us all of us who will not hear any more of about his case and then Crosley stepped up to the
podium to give his thanks and an emotional speech now right now I feel a little weak
because it's the love that I get from my family from peoples in general like you
guys it hurts me to see you hurt that's what's hurting me the freedom I had in the last two years it's been wonderful
believe me I don't want this take him from me I want to continue going on like I'm going on I'm willing I'm able to
keep fighting never give up fighting for my freedom to my family I love you all of you thank you
for now amen [Applause] a lot of people ask me all the time and they'll say he's not angry I me you're
not angry about having to go back you've already served so much time God knows I'm not angry I continue to have hope
faith and all I just move forward truthfully you know I feel like the only judge I'm
facing now is the three judges that I always fac it the father Son and the Holy Ghost I came
say much about [Music] [Music] man we woke up at 4:30 I think he might have said a couple
of prayers silently that I prayed for us both as a reporter I had seen several people walk out of prison I had never
seen anyone go back in when I sat down with Kathy spikes a few months ago she described the final hours before her
fiance surrendered himself back to the state on April 17th 2023 the attorneys called and my stomach
went into nuts um they were going to pick him up at 6:00 a.m. that morning um I don't think we even ate we sat around
we talked family came over you be all right you'll be all right be a good girl the Sun was shining
on crosley's last day as a free man I was standing with his friends and family as they gathered outside his
brother-in-law's home to say their final goodbyes I just want you to know that I
love you I really really really really appreciate all you have done for me Crosley spoke to his cheerful brother
o' Conor while they leaned on the hood of a car he was as usual being Papa the patriarch giving words of advice and
sharing his wisdom I really want you to pay more attention to your health though you hear me I always love you
brother I know this I know this watching CR ly he didn't look like a man about to
go back to prison he wore a Buffalo Bills t-shirt a pair of jeans and oddly a furry raccoon tail hat he was clearly
trying to add a little levity to a dark day he walked around with his hands in his pockets as he conversed with other
family members get on up here well she'll before he headed out everyone got together for a group photo with Papa
green get up here get up here y'all get up here little people get the little people up in front they
up two it work hey I love y'all man listen listen y'all be strong man eventually it was time to go a
massive black Cadillac Escalade courtesy of the lawyers was parked on the curb waiting to take Crosley to the Florida
Department of Corrections Kathy stood with Crosley after his goodbyes to his family and
they got into the Escalade together Keith Harrison and Jean Thomas were there too and rode over to the facility
with them I follow behind in my own vehicle during the drive Crosley and Kathy held on to each other in a tight
Embrace and shared Tender Kisses savoring the last moments of physically being together when they arrived at the
Florida Department of Corrections Harrison and Thomas got out first Crosley and Kathy followed it was almost
like um I'm not going to cry um prep preparing yourself for like a funeral it was one of the saddest moments to
witness as a reporter hand in hand with Cathy Crosley walked with his attorneys into the Florida Department of
Corrections to turn himself in it was more or less like walking through a door and never
knowing when you're going to come back out and to have somebody tell you only have pretty much 4 seconds to give a hug
and to say your goodbyes um I'm having everything in my mind of how I wish I had have stayed I for work
longer um I wish I had a couple more days with him I wasn't gonna cry it's okay it's
okay it's understandable I just know that April became a very hard month for me and I I
tell him April this seems like a reoccurring tragedy over and over again you know the crime happened in
April he was released in April which was a happy moment but then he was reincarceration in April just to think
of the hours that go by the phone doesn't ring the phone call of saying what do you want to eat today that would
never happen as far as he's incarcerated crosley's three deade long journey through the court system was
over but not his chance for Freedom Crosley is a perfect candidate for parole I can't think of frankly a reason
why he wouldn't be paralled that's Keith Harrison they can't point to his his being a
model inmate they can't point to anything he did when he was out for two years it's almost like a trial
parole you know so there's really as far as I can see no basis no reasonable basis upon which he would be denied
parole his attorneys now turned to his parole board as the next step to getting him out but to their shock they were hit
with a another blow the parole commission has essentially miscalculated his eligibility Keith
Harrison and Jean Thomas discovered that back in 2015 the Florida parole commission had
made a mistake when calculating the date when Crosley would become eligible for parole according to the lawyers Crosley
should have been eligible to apply for parole in 2014 but somehow the commission
incorrectly said it to 20159 a difference of 45 years how did they make that miscalculation well it had nothing to do
with cley Green's actions in the prison system he had been a model prisoner instead the Florida commission
set crosley's parole eligibility based on his original 1990 conviction when he had been found guilty of robbery
kidnapping and first-degree felony murder but Harrison said that under Florida rules only the felony murder
charge not the additional charges of robing kidnapping should have been considered it's part of the same crime
it's what's called a lesser included offense part of the same crime so it's like essentially double counting and in
fact the ru rules say that the amount of time for those underlying offenses should be zero that's what the rules say
zero what's more the parole commission made its calculation back in 2015 without notifying crosley's
attorneys they were unable to represent Crosley at the time to correct the error Crosley was not present Crosley
was not represented by Council we were never informed this was going on did Crosley know it was going on Crosley
knew that somebody from the parole commission staff came to talk to him in prison but he did not understand what
was going on nor is there any evidence that he ever received their decision and what did Crosley think
about all of this when I first heard about it you know I was I was shocked man you mean tell me I was Edge for
parole back in 2015 2014 and I didn't know nothing about it I really was just dumbfounded okay why so
much is going against me but do you feel that sometimes that just as soon as you make a step forward
there's something that step backwards you know make a step forward step back and we immediately you know filed
essentially an administrative appeal um we got a very quick hearing on it and that's how on June 21st
2023 crosley's legal team appeared before the parole commission asking for a correction for crosley's parole date
but someone else had earlier told the same commission she didn't want that parole date to
change the voice you just heard was none other than Kim H now going by her married name Kim Landers
for allowing me to give a statement hopefully this will keep behinds for the duration
of Kim said she hoped that quote this will keep Crosley green behind bars for the duration of his
life the teenager who is with chip Flynn in that Orange Grove before he died was
now 53 years old and for several years had worked for Bard County in her statement Kim said Crosley had used the
media to quote manipulate people to think he's innocent this is the first time we're
hearing Kim's voice since her police interview on April 4th 1989 hours after the Murder She was
never willing to talk publicly about that night the recording of her statement to the commission is difficult
to understand so listen carefully I genuinely believe he remains a danger to society and should never be given the
opportunity to Curt me or anyone else in the future probably had a chance to be a
law buing system before he his current incarceration but chose to be a career criminal and in the end a coldhearted
murder as you can hear Kim sounded frustrated and rushed in her statement at this point an unidentified voice in
the recording Cuts in if you need to take a breath that's fine I'm all right okay I'm all right
okay there is no reason to believe that this at this point in his life probably to be anything other than he's always
been a complete Min of society closing I request that you that this board uphold
the 2015 par decision and leave this mer par in the end the commission reduced crosley's parole eligibility by five
years based on quote positive conduct while on release which brought the original calculation down from year
2059 to 2054 if that calculation stands Crosley will not be eligible for parole until
he's 97 years old I sometimes go back to the fact that he was originally offered 10 years in
prison as a plea deal to save them from having to try this case and he turned it
down because he was innocent and he's been in prison for 33 of the last 35 years and they're
fighting to keep him in until he dies when 10 years was enough to protect their interest from the
beginning the commission said it will review crosley's case again in March 2026 I asked Professor nun why
authorities in Florida remain so adamant about keeping Crosley green Behind Bars
I think there are some people who believe that it is a deterrent to to Crime because what you want is you want
the prison experience to be as uncomfortable as possible and I think that most of the actors in the State of
Florida have what I see is an old-fashioned view that is more punitive than it is
rehabilitative the whole issue of whether someone is a threat to society or not anymore is not even a question
they're concerned about I think that's unfair and I think it's mean-spirited and I think it undermines
public confidence in the criminal legal system from technicalities to miscalculations it seemed like everyone
could make aist mistake but Crosley was the one paying for it this is Kenneth nun people tend to
believe the charge that a black person committed a crime because we created a society that ties black people black
communities the things that black people do to criminal activity and when criminal charges are laid at the foot of
a black person it's very difficult to shake them off as of the recording of This podcast in 2020 4 crosley's legal
team petitioned Florida's courts to compel the parole commission to recalculate crosley's parole dates the
lawyers are now waiting for a response if they don't win this time they will ask for clemency from Florida Governor
Ronda santz that is probably a long shot you know right now as we speak there are
almost 60,000 signat on a change.org petition I mean does that what it kind of comes down to at this point how
important then is public interest in this can that make a difference well I I think it can make a difference I think
it's important because it does keep the pressure on it makes uh officials go back and look at the case since all of
his Avenues of relief are in the political realm and not in the legal realm per se I mean politics boils down
to what the people want and so if you can show 60,000 or 600,000 people who support this case then I think that's a
positive and it could inure to his benefit since the first airing of crosley's story on 48 hours back in
1999 through to our most recent story in April of 2023 there have been people who don't
know Crosley personally but who are so convinced of his innocence they've shown up time and time again to support him in
court they've started petitions in his honor sold t-shirts that say free Crosley green and made their own calls
to Bard County demanding crosley's freedom I think what matters about Crosley Green's case is what it says
about us are we a society that really cares about Justice or do we just pay lip service to it is it okay for a
person who hasn't committed a crime to spent decades in prison for something he didn't do I think that many Americans
would find that to be probably the most terrible thing to happen to them and it tells about who we are as a people who
we are as a country uh what kind of justice system we have and what our Legacy is going to be for future
Generations if we don't do something to correct a problem that occurred in this case and
we just let Crosby green sit in jail when there's no justification for it we want to think that the legal system
works for everyone that it doesn't matter if you're poor or black or without resources when the system doesn't work
our job is to shine a light and so here I am still reporting on the troubl case against Crosley green
hey how you doing hey Crosley hey hey good to see you again it's great seeing you I told you I would be here soon this
wasn't quite as soon as I hope it's soon enough it's really soon [Music] enough I knew I needed to talk to
Crosley again now back in prison I visited him on June 19th or what is better known as Jun juneth
2024 it's June 19th it's a day in which it's about Justice you know it's about justce it's
about people supposed to get together pull together and figure something out the irony wasn't lost on either of us
that this was a day to commemorate the emancipation of enslaved people in the US and here Crosley was back in
prison Crosley is housed at the Sumter Correctional Institution in Bushnell Florida this minimum security prison is
around a 2 and 1 half hour drive away from his family over the years I had seen Crosley on death row I had seen him
serving life and I had seen him living his life I wasn't sure what to expect on this trip but I was anxious to let him
know that he had not been forgotten you started telling me that this time is a little harder than it's been in the past
yes it is you know you have to understand that I was out for two years and it felt good it really felt good to
be out there and doing the things that a normal person does in life and uh just coming back here you
know you you sit back you think about that and you think about the people that you love people that love you Crosley
looked thin but healthy he was allowed to talk with me in a conference room without any shackles or
restrains what is the toughest time of the day what is the toughest time of the day there's a few tough times during the
day you know the afternoons it's tough in the afternoons and it's tough in the even this you know because normally
I come home after work when I was out my sons come over my sister and them might come over we all sit out eat the
ice cream or s store get some pizza chicken or whatever I miss that okay I really do miss that a great deal but
what he misses most is what so many of us take for granted what he misses every single day is what he felt when he was
with Kathy and I ain't never experienced a lot of stuff because of the time I've been locked up
and stuff like that I never experienced having to sit or be around a person that that always made me
laugh made me happy you know love me and stuff like that that I'm getting to do stuff that was pretty much what I never
thought I would be doing and it felt good I mean that's what a lot of people take for GR granted that having a woman
who loves you and having dinner at home that's your idea of freedom I never thought i' have a life like
that okay and for me to have start to have a life like that that was special to me a lot of times C to come to
visit and she she do it on a regular basis and it bothered me because she doing a lot of traving it's not quite
the life Kathy had prayed for but she told me she isn't giving up on the man she loves I'm a a certified nurses aid
and I work night shift so usually when I get off work at night I'll come home and
on Thursday mornings and change and then I take a 2-hour drive to go visit him for lunch and make sure that we keep at
least that normalness in our lives what's your biggest fear at this moment Kathy
that he will never probably get released what do you pray for what do you pray about I I pray for a lot of different
things I pray for just two people to hear crosley's case on the commission board and come to like minds and see
that he can be released it should be released I pray for governor desandis and Lady Dan is to have a heart and to
understand that they can also make a difference in his life and in this case I pray for Kim HCK the most um that she
will be able to go and have peace and say that the story happened this way and that's the
[Music] truth Crosley has not given up hope what are you working on while you're here
well my my goal is right now is to get my GED if you remember Crosley had dropped
out of high school to work with his father and now he's back in school he's created a busy full life inside prison
he tends to the prison grounds he's involved in a faith-based program and he's made a lot of friends we got a
prayer group at night and in our prayer group we prayer for others for ourselves
but we pray for others as well we pray for sickness healing marriages and everything you know and for your freedom
and for for our freedom not just for my fre for our freedom we don't lead no one
out every in that Circle we hold hands we pray for each and every one of us and for those that are not in our
Circle I was allowed an hour and a half with Crosley and when my time was up all
right so I'm going to I have to let him go right yes I know is it's hard you I'm
sad yeah you sad I know you sad but see you know what though uh the sooner the better though cuz you make me feel real
sad to see you like that well I don't want to I know I know I know but it's just that me and you got this spond that
we had ever since all them years back then you know I hope that next next time I see you your back I'm sure I I'm kind
of like pretty much I I really feel that things going to go my way this time good
things are here thanks for coming all right you know that let me get this in I got to get my school
work because Crag green never got a new trial we'll never know what really happened on April 4th 198
89 but Crosley green is not the only person who didn't get Justice neither did 22-year-old Chip
Flynn who died that early morning in an Orange Grove how and why did Chip Flyn die why did it take so long to get him
help throughout this podcast you heard about the cops who failed to thoroughly investigate the story told by Flynn's
ex-girl friend you heard her inconsistent stories you heard about the lack of evidence and you heard Witnesses
admit they lied to authorities before and during Crosley Green's trial and of course you've heard a lot about the
prosecutor who failed to turn over exculpatory evidence none of these people have faced
serious consequences for what they did or failed to do but but Crosley green has before he went back to prison in
2023 crosy green preached one last sermon to his church congregation I got a verse I want to
read out of this Bible I'm G to read Matthew 25 okay and it says do not worry all right all right you hear me do not
worry and this is what I be trying to tell my sisters my family do not worry I don't worry when I'm by myself
but when I get with you guys and I see your expression even with friends or supporters I see their expression I see
tears fall from there they bother me and I tell them don't worry man I'm okay I'm
always telling y'all don't worry I'm okay I can do this let me show y'all be strong with me I'm in God's hand amen
amen I am in God's hand yes you understand believe me when I tell y'all everything will be okay amen I love
y'all and thank you for listening to me thank [Applause] you murder in the Orange Grove was
reported by me Aon morard alongside producers Alan Pang Annie Cronenberg and Allison Bailey Kiara norbitz is our
coordinating producer and Florence brough Adams is our story editor additional production support from Dylan
Gordon Marlon polycarp Caroline Casey and Christine Driscoll Judy tigart is the executive producer of 48 Hours Gail
Zimmerman asenna basak Mark gobom Charlotte Fuller Judy Ryback and Steven McCain produced the original 48 Hours
episodes associate producers were Michael Loftus and Shaheen Toki Patty aronowski was a senior
producer special thanks to Megan Marcus Jamie Benson Nick poser and Gail spru [Music]

Since Crosley Green's temporary release from prison, he had created a beautiful life on the outside: he had found love, gotten a job, and was attending church regularly. But when the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals decided to reinstate his conviction, Crosley found himself returning to prison. Running out of options, his attorneys took his case to the highest court in the land: the U.S. Supreme Court.

The series is widely available everywhere else you get your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murder-in-the-orange-grove-the-troubled-case/id1766382718

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Crosley Green's fight against wrongful conviction continues as he returns to prison after the Supreme Court denies his case.

Key points

Crosley's Love Story. Crosley Green finds love and joy after prison, but uncertainty looms ahead.
Supreme Court Denies Petition. Crosley learns that the Supreme Court will not hear his case, reinstating his conviction.
A Somber Goodbye. Crosley says farewell to his family before returning to prison, filled with emotion.
Parole Miscalculation. Crosley's eligibility for parole is miscalculated, extending his time in prison.
Crosley's Case Review. The commission will review Crosley's case again in March, raising hopes for justice.
Public Support for Crosley. Almost 60,000 signatures on a petition show strong public interest in Crosley's case.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I can't say what going to happen, can't no one say what going to happen.

Crosley expresses uncertainty about his future.

2:40WatchNov 6, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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