Joseph Colombo /// Episode: 72 /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

Heat. [Music] [Applause] Heat. [Music] [Applause] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me is a guy that knows that you
never go against the family. No matter whose family it is, he is the captain. Okay, I'm reloading.
It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. [Music] Today we are drinking Green Diamonds by
Other Half Brewing in beautiful Brooklyn, New York. Green Diamonds is an Imperial IPA brewed with Golden Promise
malt and lots of Australian Galaxy hops. Shine bright like a diamond. Garage grade four out of five bottle caps.
Green diamonds was brought to us by some of our special shiny diamonds in the True Crime Garage Army. First up, we
have Beauty and the Bree from Chandler, Arizona. Next, we go to Green Bay, Wisconsin, and say thanks to BK. BK
says, "Love the show, and I love how Nick doesn't seem to miss a beat even when the captain goes on a rant." And oh
yeah, I love the captain's rants, too. Next, we have Anthony. Yo, Anthony from Bronxville, New York.
>> Yo, Anthony. >> We also have traveling Hillary who says she's always listening while traveling.
Right now, she's listening to us in Angola. Safe travels, Hillary. That's actually Hillary Clinton there, Captain.
I don't know if you know, but she's a big big fan. Let's go close to home and say thanks to McKenzie from Columbus,
Ohio. And last, but not least, thank you to Ryan in Covington, Kentucky. Ryan says, "You guys kick ass. TCG is the
best podcast out there. >> And if you'd like to buy around for the show, you can do so at true
crimegar.com. And like always, we like for all you beer drinkers out there, if you want to follow me, you can do so on
Untapped. That's an app, people. Check me out at true crime garage. >> And for all social media, you can follow
Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff. True crime garage. >> All right, that's enough of the
business, Captain. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer, and let's talk some true crime.
[Music] This is True Crime Garage and this is a case of Joseph Columbo. [Music] Roger. As fews for notorious individuals
go, this was extremely modest with a service held in the section of Brooklyn where Joe Colo was regarded by many as
an outstanding citizen and family man. There were only three flower-filled cars. The casket didn't look to be
overly expensive. And no major recognizable organized crime figures came to pay their last respects to the
dapperon who headed the family once caused by the late Joe Proface, the olive oil king. While there were a great
number of politicians at the rally at which Columbbo was shot, including at least one congressman, at least one
member of the state legislature, I didn't see any of those people today. Some 250 mourners attended the service
in the half empty church from which cameras were born. FBI agents and plain closed police were present when
Columbo's wife, four sons, and one daughter, as well as his parents arrived. Well, I met him at 49 at the
waterfront. I worked with my leg extra labor and I think you're a hell of a nice guy.
>> Columbbo died Monday at age 54. He'd been virtually paralyzed and in a semi coma since he was shot down at an
Italian American Civil Rights League rally at Columbus Circle in 1971. >> Well, he was a family man that uh when I
was a lot younger, I was about 10 years old. My father used to come home sometimes with turkeys and uh Mr.
Columbo had given them to him. Uh >> Robert Vilanti with Stacy Moscowitz the night he was killed by David Burkowitz
and who was left almost blinded by the so-called son of Sam didn't know Colbo but came to the church today with a
friend who did. >> Mother had a lot of respect for the man and uh he was doing the things for the
Italian people and he was good for our own kind. The massive resurrection was conducted by Father Lewis Jaganti,
former city councilman from East Holland. He spotted me after the service and as the funeral entourage was passing
the home of Columbbo's sister on the way to the cemetery. Can you tell us summarize what you said at the service?
Yeah, I just called Joe Columbo uh a mart for the Italian-American cause. a model for the Italian-American cause
[Music] last night at a Newberg, New York hospital almost 7 years after he was shot down in Columbus Circle. It's
believed that his shooting was arranged by crazy Joe Gallow who himself a year later was ventilated by gunfire that
proved his mortality. More on the Columbbo story. >> Joe Columbo regarded himself as a good
family man period. And he used to hoot at allegations that he was involved in hijacking, lone sharking, policy and
bookmaking among other various enterprises. The short stocky balding dapper Don was
a native of Brooklyn and his last home there was his private house in the Dikica beach section from which the
Columbos moved about 2 years after he was cut down in the prime of life at the age of 54.
It happened on a June day in 1971. This is where it happened. Thousands of people were already at the rally. Many
more were on their way. Many politicians were up on the stands. Suddenly, there was a series of shots and Columbbo was
hit at least three times. A moment later, his asalant was grabbed and pummeled and then shot, killed instantly
by Columbbo followers. Columbo was regarded as really being on his way up in 1963
when Carlo Gambino, the boss of bosses and who died a natural death, named him to take over the family which had been
run by Joe Proface after the olive oil king died also of natural causes. Columbbo reportedly ran this real estate
business where nobody would speak with me today. Outside in the gutter, a husky young man
advised me, quote, "Get the hell out of here and leave the dead. Rest in peace. If you know what's good for you.
If you know what's good for you." Jerome Johnson, the man who shot Columbbo, was believed by police to be a
hired gun who got the contract from the Gallow gang. Joe Colombo detested the word mafia and
he once said, "I don't know what they're talking about when they talk about the mafia. I do have a family,
>> a model for the Italian-American cause. [Music] Who was Joe Columbo? Joe Columbo was a
father. He was the alleged boss of the Columbbo crime family and the founder of the Italian-American Civil Rights
League. And in 1971, Joe Columbo was gunned down among a crowd of thousands in one of the most highly publicized
shootings in New York City's history. >> I'll take you through the scene here a bit before we get to our guest this
week. This is the summer of 1971 in New York City and the Italian-American Civil
Rights League is putting on a rally or let's say a gathering rather. This is the second of such gatherings and they
call it unity day. It's a day for the people and to bring everyone together as a community. But this is not a small
gathering. No, thousands of people were present. The FBI sent every field agent from their New York City offices to the
rally. NYPD sent 1,500 uniformed police officers there for crowd control. They also sent a few hundred higher ranking
officers as well, most likely to oversee the patrolman on duty that day. >> And this is basically a rally, the unity
rally is basically Joe Colombo was really pushing the issue of affirmative action. And when we think of affirmative
action, we think of um you know, African-American affirmative action, but he was really pushing Italian.
>> Yes. >> And so this is something that nowadays 2016, we're going this was an issue.
This was a this was a big issue in the '60s and then in the early '7s. >> Yeah. And so we're talking about 17 or
1,800 police officers there. We're talking about a bunch of FBI uh agents from the NYC field off offices. Um so
there is going to be a very large big police presence was going to be on tap that day. Now it doesn't take a wise guy
to figure out that the FBI is not they're not there for crowd control. >> No pun intended.
>> Yeah. Of course not. The the FBI, they don't mess around with crowd control. No, they are there because some might
call this a mafia event. There is going to be mafia presence there that day as well. And the FBI, well, they are going
to go there to photograph, document, and of course, eavesdrop on these mob members.
>> Now, Joe Colombo, you could consider him the host of this event, the guest of
honor, the headliner, whatever you want to call it, >> right? The main speaker. >> But Unity, Unity Day existed because of
Joe Colombo. He was the one everyone was there to see and hear. he was their leader. And I have to point out, you
know, we all we all know the FBI does not like the mob. But more importantly, it was no real secret that Jay Edgar
Hoover, a number one FBI, well, he really did not like Joe Colombo. And I'll let our guest Don Capria get into
that a little bit later. But back to Unity Day. Shortly before the event could kick off, Joe Colomo is standing
inside a press barricade. Keep in mind, Joe is practically surrounded by Italian
American Civil Rights League members, Columbbo mob members, family members, as well as NYPD patrolman. Now, there's
about 15 to 20 NYPD, just to be clear, right around Joe Colombo. It is at this point that Joe is gunned down. The
shooter is Jerome Johnson, who is posing as a cameraman with fake press credentials. Jerome Johnson is tackled
by police. He's handcuffed and then someone in the crowd shoots Johnson. Johnson dies in handcuffs and Joe
Columbo somehow survives the attack but he is comeomaosse. >> Yeah. And we believe that these are
people that worked for Joe Columbo. You know his supporters. Somebody was like, "Oh no, they shot Joe, so now we killed
this guy. >> They re Yeah. The thought is that they may have retaliated." Now, we are all
familiar with the FBI and Jay Garoover, but let's take a minute to introduce >> How familiar are we? Well, we, you know,
had >> well read >> had him to brunch uh one day many years ago. >> He was in the garage sipping on a a nice
cold beer, >> possibly dressed as a woman. >> Well, let's introduce the five crime
families. >> Okay, so the five families are known as the Banano family, the Columbbo family,
the Gambino family, the Genevves family, and the Lucasy family. And I tried to throw a little Italian on there at the
end. I kind of kind of butchered it. Now, these are the five major New York City organized crime families of the
Italian-American mafia. Now, I know that some of the families have had different
names from time to time. So, I don't want to get any email saying I'm going to swim with the fishes because
>> because the Genevves family was once the Luciano family. I mean, >> yeah. And basically what happens here is
you have a crime family and then you have let's say cousins and brothers and stuff like that that are all working for
this crime and sometimes the cousin or a family friend becomes the leader and then they change the name of the crime
family. >> You're exactly right. So I mean no disrespect but for the sake of argument
and for the fishes >> for the sake of this episode let's just agree that those are the five families.
Now, I did say Luciano or Luciano family. That's a popular name and one that most people are familiar with. If
you're not, Charles Lucky Luciano. He was once the boss of what more recently is referred to as the Genevacy family
and is pretty much considered the father for modern-day organized crime and splitting New York into the different
criminal gangs. Lucky became the boss by secretly betraying his boss. And then Lucky ended up going to prison and
eventually he is deported to Italy and at some point loses the boss title. >> I wonder with New York having the five
burrows and then we also have the five crime families. I wonder if there's any connection there.
>> You're right. There is some connection there. and the five major families historically operated in the New York
metropolitan area but also having a big presence in New Jersey and also have and
may still be who knows be active in South South Florida, Las Vegas, Connecticut and Massachusetts. So we got
the five crime families and sometimes they're just working independently. Sometimes they're working in clusters
you sometimes it's as a whole and sometimes they're waring between each other. Maybe it's two against three or
just one against one, you know, kind of a turf war battle. >> Yeah, that's a little bit of the
background here. But we are not here to give a primer lesson on Italian-American
organized crime. >> Yes, we are. >> No, we are here to discuss the conspiracy plot and cover up to kill and
silence mob boss and community leader Joseph Columbo. >> Mhm. You know, you know that most
What's What do you think is the most cover up? You know, like construction. Mhm.
>> So like you're in organized crime. What are you actually in? >> Oh, your front.
>> Yeah. Your front. What would your front be? Like >> waste management. >> Yours would be Well, I I used to have
this guy that I s suspected >> Uhhuh. >> of knowing some people. And we'll get into that a little bit later. I'll tell
you interesting story. But one guy I knew, very suspect, was into antiques. >> Oh, he's an antiques dealer.
>> Yeah. I could never find his store. Uh, and then another guy was a barista. He
had a coffee shop, but I I'll have to tell you a little bit about him later. >> The shooting of Columbbo could have been
carried out and organized by any number of groups. Was it the mob? Was this a hit by one of the other four crime
families? Was it the government and the CIA trying to take down a crime boss? Right.
>> Or was it the FBI? Did Jay Edgar Hoover try to silence the very voice that was
calling for regulations and sanctions on his own bureau? As we all know, the FBI
has been >> Well, hold on. You're missing another The other possibility is just a lone
gunman. >> Well, of course, >> somebody that Joe did wrong and just wanted revenge and the revenge would
happen in public. >> Yeah. And the to help us do so, we have asked Don Capria, who has very recently
teamed up with Joe Columbo's eldest son, Anthony, to join us. Now, Anthony knew his father extremely well. He worked
alongside his father with the Italian-American Civil Rights League, but Anthony has been silent for over 40
years and has recently decided to speak out about his life beside his father and
his father's unsolved murder. And Don Caprio wrote this great book, Columbbo, the Unsolved Murder. Don is also going
to talk to us about Joe Colomo's father. See, Joe Columbo's father was killed as
well. murdered mafia style and most likely a retaliation kill for a killing that Joe's father, two gun Tony, carried
out. You know, they called him two gun Tony because he kept a 38 caliber pistol in each of his two vest pockets.
>> And one of the things that people believe that is evidence that this wasn't a mob killing was because this
wasn't done in the typical hit style of the mob. >> Yep. Don is a New York native, so he
knows the playing turf of this case. And of course, he grew up hearing stories about the mafia families and the
different crime bosses. So without further ado, an interview with Don Capria. Don, you are a writer, producer, and
music video director. How did you get involved in writing a true crime book? >> So I had always been interested in in
true crime um and especially the New York Five. Um, so I had mentioned to a friend a while back in Brooklyn that I
wanted to do a story on Joe Colombo. Uh, an actual I wanted to do a screenplay on
Joe Colombo. I had always found that from the five families his story to be one of the most interesting because of
how diverse he was as the leader of a family and also that there was so much so much a little bit of information but
so much more story out there that no one really knew about for his life. So, um,
pursuing the screenplay, I was kind of told, you know, this wouldn't be something that you can do being that his
five his five children are still alive. This would be something you would really
need a family blessing to to touch upon. Um, and I I said, "Fine, no problem." I
had put it to bed. And then about a year later, that same friend had had told me,
"Hey, look, are you interested in doing something with the Columbbo uh story?" And I said, "Of course." So, he said,
"Well, a guy is going to be calling you. They're working on the book now and they're looking for someone to do the
adaptation for a screenplay. I took a call with a gentleman that was like a liaison between the family and their
agent Mickey Fryberg. And when we were on the call talking, he also let me know that they were probably looking for
someone to do the book that something wasn't working out with the writer that they had on board. And I think it was a
timing thing. So I went upstate and I met with Joe Columbo's oldest son Anthony Colombo, his grandson Anthony
Colombo Jr. um Rey who was like the liaison of the family to the agent and we sat at a diner and and discussed what
I knew about Joe Columbo's life, why I wanted to write this book, what my agenda was to to the story and the
telling of Joe Columbo. and they told me a little bit of bit about what was not written and what was not in the media
and what was not written in true crime books and we we it was a really great chemistry and I had never intended to
write a book. I always wanted to be a screenwriter but when the opportunity arose and I sent in a little treatment
to their agent and he accepted it, I decided I was going to take on my first true crime biography.
>> Tell everybody about Joseph Columbo. Yeah, Joseph Columbo. Um, you know, he died before I was born and I I did a lot
of research on him from everything from the the media story of who Joe Colbo was, the the jacket of of criminal
history and and investigation done by the FBI and the NYPD, but I think the most interesting stories of course came
from the people that had firsthand experiences with him. Uh, the more and more that I met people that that met Joe
or had heard stories about Joe and of course working side by side with Anthony, his oldest son, I I learned
that the man could have he was one of these gentlemen that could have been anything. Um, and he did live and become
successful in many different ways besides what you know the reputed mob boss story that everybody knew about
him. uh as a businessman, he was a dealmaker and he was a dealmaker that wanted to create win-win situations. Um
as a community person, he was a leader. Uh in his family, he was a strong cohesive piece, but have of course the
head of his family, but always making sure that everyone is included and and he's the type of person that I met one
guy in Brooklyn and I asked him, I said, you know, what is what is Joe Columbo? Who is Joe Colombo to you as far as the
community person? He said Joe Colombo was the type of person that when a black man and a and an Asian man and a Russian
guy and and a Jewish guy and an Italian guy were having an argument over something, they would walk into a room
with Joe, Joe would sit him down, they'd come out of that room an hour later and
everyone would be laughing and patting each other on the back. And and to me, I just learned that no matter what Joe
Colbo was in the media eye or to any person that wrote or spoke about him, he was just going to be a successful
leader. And that's why I think he had uh leaned over into politics and started the Italian-American Civil Rights
League. He knew how to pave the way to a successful situation. Whether that situation was a business deal, whether
that situation was uh a community organization, you know, he wanted to build a hospital. He was building a camp
in upstate New York. To me, Joe Colombo was just a naturalb born leader. >> We're talking about Joseph Columbo, the
famous mob boss of the Columbbo family. But when when Joe was a kid, his father was murdered.
>> Yes. So his father was an immigrant who while their roots are from Calabrian,
Italy, his father um came by way of Brazil, which was very common during the heavy immigration of Italian-Americans
to from Italy to the Americas. So his father came over and grew up just with his father because his siblings did not
make it because a lot of the people that were traveling on the boats got sick and
were rejected at the New York ports. So um he grew up as a street kid in in South Brooklyn and eventually joined
gangs and was known as two gun Tony um who was a member of what would be the Paci organization. But I think this was
even pre five families that he was involved in you know the bootlegging activity the roaring 20s and then in the
1930s um the at the end of the castle mors there was a huge power struggle that was
happening in Brooklyn and we all know the story of Saluchiano and how he with myansky devised the five families where
these territories would finally be defined and leaders would be defined and the work would be defined. Um, and when
that was happening, there was still someone in the streets of South Brooklyn, a very powerful uh, gangster,
um, Frankie Yell's associate, and his his name is a clutching hand pirano. Um, and he would not settle. He would not do
organiz organized crime like these men wanted to do where there was a politics involved. So, the man had to be taken
out. And from from what I was told, um he was walking home from a meeting one day where he had he had left the meeting
and told him the same thing. He was not going to give up property. He was not going to compromise. Um and he was shot
on Zacket Street in Brooklyn. And the coroner report on that shooting was that the first two bullets that entered his
body, um you could put a quarter over those first two bullets that entered his heart. meaning that the gun was fired
and the second gun was fired and he hit the same spot twice, which is pretty rare when it comes to sharp shooting
with a pistol. um that that murder and from from what I was told again is was was done by two gun which would be Joe
Komao's father and years later when the Pacei organization came to be someone had to take responsibility
for this lieutenant dying and it was rumored that that's when they decided they had to kill Anthony Colomo who was
responsible for the shooting of Jeppi Proface. So he was slain um with with a girl that was someone that he was seeing
on the side of his wife. And it was a very brutal murder. They they um in those days uh in the the late 1930s,
1920s, 1930s, they were still doing um stuff that they did when they came over was called like the barrel murders. I
don't know if you're familiar with that, but where they would take a body and they would affixiate it by tying a rope
from the legs to the head and the body would actually fold. And that that's how um Joe Columbo's father was found. And
the photos were all over the newspaper. And it was something I'm sure was extremely difficult for Joe as a
14-year-old boy to have everyone that knows him know about his father's murder and had seen pictures of his father's
body, the hand even laying out from the backseat of the car in the police photos
that made it into the newspapers. And this was something that was a turning point for Joe Colo because his his
mother at that time was so nervous about what was going on decided to pack up and
leave the state and go to California. And Joe at 14 years old did not want to leave the state. He wanted to stay in
New York and I think he wanted to stay in New York because he wanted to find out who was responsible for his father's
murder. >> And was Anony's mistress killed that day as well? >> She was. Yes. >> So his father and his father's mistress
were both killed that day by strangulation. >> Both murders were done by strangulation.
Uh Christine Olivieri, who was married at the time as well, was the mistress. Um and she was also strangled and left
inside this uh Pontiac. Um, it was called the Shore Road Murders in the newspaper. It was in the Bay Ridge
section of Brooklyn. And it was a very, very foggy morning that those cars, it must have happened in the evening before
and a very foggy morning. The killer and accompllices took this Pontiac and drove
it right off of Shore Road, parked it on the side of the street. And then when the fog cleared in the morning, the
bodies were actually found by a little boy who was just walking his dog. and he saw these this two bodies in the
backseat of this Pontiac and then called the superintendent of the building next
door, the police, and there you had the crime scene. >> We're talking with true crime author Don
Capria about Joseph Columbo, the mob boss, and his father has been killed when he was a boy. Now, his mother moves
out to California, and Joseph stays behind in New York. >> Yes. And again, my belief is that Joe
wanted to find out who was responsible for his father's murder. And I think that Joe also angered wanted to avenge
his father. Um, and there was a gentleman that was very close to his father that they live around the corner
from each other in Sheep's Head Bay. And this gentleman went to Joe at his father's funeral and let him know that
listen, I'm a very dear friend of your fathers. He was a mentor to me and he's a a very important person in my life.
And I'm going to be watching over you and if there's anything that you ever need, please come and see me. And Joe
started developing a relationship with this man from the time he was 14 years old. Uh a mentorship I would say. And um
you know I can get into that later on and how that relationship grew. But I think that that person was also
a pivotal person kind of the detent pole for Joe saying okay well my whole family
is going to leave and go to California but if I stay here I have someone that I can turn to for money job or whatever it
needs to survive in New York City. Joseph Columbo. His father's been killed. His mother moves away. Now,
Joseph has to become a man very quickly here. What does he do? Does he drop out of school? How does he fend for himself?
>> He stays in school. He does not um stay in school to complete uh high school. He
had switched schools because he needed a residency. So the mother's sister was living off of New Utri a so more towards
Benenhurst. So he stays in school. Um he was he had a shine box and he was shining shoes. Um and then he started
learning how to roll dice and he started making money because he noticed that well the money doesn't come from rolling
dice and having good luck. The money comes from running the games. So at a very early age he was running crap games
and he started learning hustles on the street and he got a job um working for a butcher. uh he got a job working bakery
delivery and then I think he started to notice um from some of the older gentlemen in the neighborhood as well
that there was ways to have the job and also make a little bit of extra money by
hitting up bakery deliveries and hitting up uh meat deliveries and all these different kinds of things. So he he
learns h to hustle and and uh earn money at a very early age you know 14 15 years
old and once he started to support himself then that's when he was feeling like he could live on his own and I
think before he turned 18 years old his mother moved back from California once the dust had settled and she felt things
were safe um she decided that she would move back to New York so he was living under her roof again by the time he was
17 or 18. >> So, when does Joe Columbo become involved in organized crime and get
involved with one of the famous Five Families? >> The organized crime stuff wasn't until
much later in his life. I think the first thing that happened for him was he started he started working at uh
Franklin Pocketbook Factory in Brooklyn. And he was about 17 or 18 years old when he got this job.
And this job was where he met his future wife uh Jojo. And he also met some of his closest friends around this time
that he had lifelong friends. Uh he also learned to organize at this time where at this factory he he became a leader.
This was you know where he started getting leadership role and and people look to him to settle disputes and um it
was his first experience with union work. Uh he also had an experience with a comm the communist party at this time.
He was invited to a camp upstate from some of the union workers which would be around Pauling New York I would say. And
at this camp they were recruiting uh Italians and uh Germans and other people that were immigrants in New York to join
the communist party. And this was during the time of the war. Joe went up to the
camp, check out everything that they had to say and, you know, politely thanked them for letting him stay there and
feeding him and giving him all this information, but let him know that, you know, this was not something that was
for him, that he was he was definitely on the other side of the the political sphere. And uh when he came home, uh
Pearl Harbor had happened. And when Pearl Harbor happened, he felt that he needed to act. and he joined the not the
Navy but he joined the Coast Guard and he went to active duty right away. Um he was on a few different ships and
he saw action off the coast of Casablanca everywhere in between France and North Africa. Um a lot of action
actually and during one of the trips he got a message from his wife that their house on Saka Street had burned down.
Well, he I'm sorry, she wasn't his wife yet. They were just engaged to be married and he came back home and he
didn't have furlow and he skipped furlow and he went up into the mountains in New
York with his best friend, his wife and he got married and with that he went awall and he was locked up and placed on
Hart's Island. So he spent a lot of time um incarcerated a few months and then his wife got pregnant um and he had his
he got married and he had his first son within a year and that's when he started
working on the Brooklyn docks and I think when he started working on the Brooklyn docks he was introduced to a
lot of people in organized crime as we all know the docks were overrun with with criminals and and organized crime
figures you know everyone from Albert Anastasia on town. So, I think a lot of people respected Joe for who his father
was and they knew that his father was an an assassin for one of the gangs. And that gang, I think, took him under the
wing being the Pace Gang. And at the time that he was at the Brooklyn docks, so we're talking early 1940s, that was
when he was probably first introduced to organized crime and started to see that
he could be a leader within this community. In my research of Joe Colombo, there was a lot of talk about a
kidnapping that uh may have happened in 1961. Uh and I hope I'm not jumping too far
ahead here, but uh maybe you could fill us in on that. >> Now, there was a lot of kidnapping going
on during what the media and everyone spoke of as the Gallo Proface War. And what had happened, I think this all
started in 1958 or 1959. Um there was the whole the Gallow gang which was a a faction within the Pacei organization
from President Street and you had the the Gallows which was Joe Gallow, Albert Gallow and Larry Gallow. Larry Gallow as
I was told was the leader of the organization and beyond the Gallow gang you you had a lot of other people that
were involved. one of them um Joe Jelly who was you know infamous infamously known as one of the toughest guys in the
streets of Brooklyn at that time. Um these guys were vying for power within the organization because um from what I
was told again they were um they were the tough guys that were handling a lot of business for Pacei in
South Brooklyn. But it seemed that Pacei had such a grip on business that he would have them, you know, do different
things, take care of scores, maybe take out people, but then not give them the piece of the pie that they felt entitled
to. And crazy Joe Gallow, Joey the Blonde, as he was referred to in the street, was very rebellious. And I think
with him and his brother Larry who was a leader, he devised a plan that they could start kidnapping members of the
Pace organization and demands the money and whatever stake they felt was owed to
them. So there was a few different people that were kidnapped in 1961 and it's been rumored that Joe Colbo was
among those people, but he never was. um he actually just moved to upstate New York and made sure that he kept his
family outside of the city while all this was happening because beyond the kidnapping there were some murders that
were happening during the Gallow Pace war and and Joe was smart enough to know that he didn't want to get in the middle
of this situation and as I heard from folks Joe was the the influential person after Pacei had passed and after Mlakia
who was the under boss who became the leader of the Pace organization Joe was the person who really
cleaned up the war and made sure that everyone could be back together and it could be one family. And that was the
reason why in folklore the pace organization doesn't even exist in the five families anymore. Matter of fact,
the Colbo crime organization as they call it is the only crime organization that changed names and is still its name
in the FBI. You know, if we talk about five families, Mukesi, Genevvisi, Banano, Gambino, Columbbo, it didn't
start off that way. It was actually the Pacei organization that became the Columbbo organization. And I think this
was due to the disdain that a lot of the Gallow faction people had towards the Pace name and they said, well, if we're
going to make this an organization again, we'll never call ourselves Pacei members.
>> So, Joseph Columbo was never actually kidnapped. He just moved his family to kind of lay low. uh especially with
murder having been such a real thing for him seeing his father, you know, knowing
that his father was killed. >> Yeah, that that's what I'm going to guess. Um he, you know, while he moved
the family, he bought a house in Blooming Grove, New York, and he actually started buying more and more
property up there as his business was doing better. He still stayed in New York in Brooklyn. Um he was uh working
at Canalupo Realy on 86th Street. So, he still operated out of South Brooklyn. And I I would want to say that there was
probably even days that he was sleeping upstate and driving all the way back into the city for a full days of work
and then probably spending time with his family on the weekends up there and just
keeping them mainly out of Brooklyn as much as possible. Not thinking that there was anything per se that um would
happen to his family because of what was going on. The the you know, the organized crime members were never known
for that sort of behavior. So, I think it was just something that with the media and the news and the people on the
street, it was just, you know, there's so much dialogue going on about the streets that he felt it was better to
just keep them removed from everything. >> Columbo was sent away to prison in the
60s. How much time did he do? >> Very small amount of time. Um this was uh this was always the the the piece of
the puzzle that you know I worked closely with Anthony on where you know when I was writing this story I wrote it
with his oldest son and Anthony had told me he has a father-son story to tell and
he only wants to tell this father-son story from the time that he was born until the time that his father was shot.
And during that time, he never knew his father as an organized crime figure. Um,
he only knew his father as the head of his household. And whatever was written about him in the papers and whatever he
was arrested for, uh, even what he had gone to jail for, this is believable that Anthony would
see his father just as the businessman he told him he was and not an organized crime figure. Because if you have uh
someone that arrests you and you beat the charge or if you have someone that put you in jail for not speaking to a
committee or you know the one thing that he was convicted of for was um sign checking the wrong box on a real estate
application. You know, you're looking you look up to this man, you eat dinner with this man every day, you're going to
believe your father and you're not going to question him. So the the time that he
spent in jail was was something that anyone could go to jail for, which was just contempt. Um him and and Larry
Gallow were seen together at a resort in the Caskills um by a police officer and
just the police officer seeing um Larry Gallow and there was another gentleman who was also a convicted felon. Uh this
allowed for a grand jury hearing back in New York City. Joe had to sit and speak
at the grand jury hearing and when you don't speak at the grand jury hearing um you're in contempt and they can put you
in jail. So they ended up putting Joe and Larry in jail together and I I think the sentence was only about 60 days for
contempt. Um but this was the only time that he served in in jail. It was for something that you know you or I or
anyone who doesn't want to speak during a grand jury hearing could be put in jail for.
>> Let's talk about the Italian-American Civil Rights League. tell us what that is and let's talk about Joe Colombo's
involvement with that. >> Yes, Joe was always a you know he had a lot of pride um for his Italian heritage
and he loved the community in New York that he lived in and and beyond and he was I don't want to know say if he
wasn't a member of aid but he was a supporter of aid. I'm sure he was a supporter of the spons of Italy. So he
was not only proud but he was also a strong supporter in the organizations that existed. Um whenever he saw any
kind of defamation, whenever he saw any kind of struggle, he was the the type of
person that would step up and and fight. And something happened in 1970 to his son that had been um boiling and boiling
and waiting to explode and it finally did. the FBI had been threatening him that if we can't catch you, we're going
to we're going to go after your family. You know, we'll get your kids. And they indicted his son on a coin melting case
in April of 1971. When this happened, Joe went to these organizations and he said, "Look, it's it's time for the the
Italian people to step up and fight the the Justice Department." The Justice Department not only attacked him, but
they had been known for going around in the community. And if you knew a criminal, if you were a relative of a
criminal, they were shaking people down, you know, doing the robbing money from their homes, uh, threatening immigrants
with deportation that wouldn't answer questions, um, walking into stores that were, you know, possibly owned by an
organized crime figure, and, you know, just complete disruption within the community to anyone that possibly knew
or was involved with a criminal. and and Joe had a disdain for this and Joe wanted to fight for this and he could
not get the support of these organizations. So he decided at that moment and with a with a close friend
with Matt Maronei that he was going to start the Italian-American Civil Rights League is what it became and he was
going to combat the Justice Department and beyond the Justice Department he was going to start combating all things that
he felt needed to be rectified within the Italian-American community. And a lot of people looked at this and just
said, you know, well, he started this organization for the reasons of making money or it was a very very passionate
and important part of of Joe Colbo's life. I think uh in some respects looking back at his life, I think he
would have made a greater political leader than he would have a mob boss if he could have chose his life's path, you
know, many many years earlier and maybe what had happened to him and his father never happened at all. You talked about
how he got involved in organized crime and we know he you don't just start off being the boss of a crime family. How
does Joe rise through the ranks? >> Well, there are stories and you know then there are stories that I heard
there stories I've read. There stories I've heard. Um the the ones that you've read it was really that
um in South Brooklyn until he was pretty much off the radar through the FBI. you
know, I had his his jacket and a lot of other people's um foyer files and he was
pretty much off the radar. I think a lot of the people in the Columbbo organization were and maybe even all the
organizations uh until the Gallo Pace War and I think even then they didn't know who was leading the family once the
war had ended in 1963. um post 1963 from from all the stuff that I've read and from some of the people I heard, Joe
was a progressive thinker. Joe wanted uh anyone that was involved in organized crime to be a businessman, to not be in
the street and known as a criminal, not to be lazy, to be, you know, ambitious enough to open up a construction
company, to have a real estate company, to own a flower shop, to have a car dealership, to have a restaurant. So he
was he was one of the youngest among you know all of these men that came from the
prohibition era. Joe was um you know he was about 20 years younger than than all
the leaders of the families at this time and and I think that he was the person that started to see that change needed
to be as the justice department was gearing up to really go after organized crime figures. So as a leader, he was
amongst those five families, he was the most different to me because he was trying to create change within how their
structure was. Um, and and I think that created a tension not only with some of the street guys, but also with the
leaders of these five families. And you know, as I was reading and learning more
about Joe Colombo, like the dichotomy of his character was was he was just so diverse. That was most one of the most
interesting things to me was that you know he was creating a resistance almost in in every area of his life especially
the the organized crime area >> once Colbo takes over the family. What kind of leader is he? Is he loved? Is he
hated? >> I would say that he was loved by by a lot of the the men that were in the
organization. I know he was very very close with um Carmine Persico. He was very close to and a lot of people don't
know Larry Gallow. Um, everyone thinks of Gallo Columbbo as this uh riff that was forever and this is just something
wasn't true. Gallow was not only so close to Joe, he was at Anthony Columbo, his son's wedding. Um, and while Joe
Gallow was not a fan of Joe Columbos to say the least, um, his brother was and they had
a great relationship and Larry was, you know, definitely one of the more powerful people in the Columbbo
organization. Um, and I I think that Joe had the love and the support of people across organized crime families within
New York. And this would be evident in when he started the league. Um there were faces and there were people on
those pickup lines and there were people that were um really helping Joe turn this league into a monster and a
threat to the to the justice department. That couldn't have happened if he wasn't
a a well-loved and respected leader in the organized crime world. Not only just the the community of New York, but also
in the organized crime world. because this is a man that that went from starting the Italian-American Civil
Rights League in April and picking the FBI offices in New York City to putting 200,000 people a few months later in
Columbus Circle for one of the biggest rallies New York has seen. So that can only come from being um not just
charismatic but really well-loved inside the communities. Columbo and his league,
they've organized picketing sessions and they've organized rallies. What are they
rallying against? And we see here an example of such on the cover of your book. What are they trying to achieve?
>> Yeah, starting with the the cover photo. Um, that was a photo taken by a really
amazing political photographer, uh, Robert Delesandro. And I had found there's a little story behind that photo
if you don't mind. I had found a photo of Joe in a magazine that I I needed to have inside the book and it's it's it's
just a photo of him at a rally with a young boy. And when I um when I found that photo and I found
out who shot that photo, um I somehow got in touch with this photographer who was living in Mexico at the time and uh
he let me know, yeah, I still have an apartment in New York that I keep and I I go there one month out of the year and
I have some old photos, some stuff I never even developed. So, I met this man a few months later at his apartment in
Harlem and he developed all this film and that's where that cover photo came from. So, um very
interesting uh photo. It it has Joe squaring off with the police officer. They're near the FBI offices in
Manhattan and um the person that's in the center of the photo behind him is Duke Santoro and
he's holding a sign that says, "Are we headed for a police state?" And that's why I feel this book was better told,
you know, 40 years later as what Joe Colombo was thinking and what he was saying um as a civil rights leader and
also just as a community leader was to stand out and have some action against the government. Um Joe Colo did not
believe in the practices of the FBI. He did not believe in the practices of the organized crimes um strike force, the
justice department as a whole, because he felt that they had to hold the respect and the law of what America said
it was and the integrity of of justice. And he knew that they were doing illegal
activities to make arrests. He knew that they were robbing. He knew that the same
men that were putting guys away for running numbers were gamblers. uh booze, drugs, everything that that he felt was
right and wrong. He he wanted to make sure that there was a line between the Justice Department and the street guys
that were doing it. And that type of forward thinking was what he wanted to fight against because he knew that they
were just, you know, we look at it today, you know, the illegal spying. If we look at um Snowden and if we look at
Wikileaks, um Joe never learned to know about this, but in 1971, I don't know if you're familiar with
CONITLEP Pro, but that was outed in 1971 by a bunch of college students in Pennsylvania who broke into an FBI
office was a very low security FBI office, but they managed to get a whole bunch of papers out uh about Hoover's
illegal organization within the FBI called Coinselp Pro, which was short for counter intelligence program. And this
program has documentation of illegal activities and even murder. They killed a Black Panther in Chicago. Um, and this
is the kind of stuff that Joe had was privy that was going on. He didn't have facts or evidence. and he wanted to stop
the FBI from being able to without a warrant bust in the people's doors, take money from their apartment and and shake
people down and and you know illegal wire taps and and all these different things that were happening. So the are
we headed for a police state sign, I I felt like wow, you know, this was in 1970, you know, how how relevant is that
right now and what the people are fighting for in the streets and protesting against big government. And
Joe was a Republican. He was a conservative, I'm sure, a libertarian. And you know, he wanted to make sure
that the government remained where it was when this country started, where it was ruled by the people. And he
started to see that Hoover and and the Justice Department were doing exactly the opposite. And no one was trying to
curb this. Some really interesting stuff that uh Don is he's putting down some stuff and
I'm picking it up. >> Yeah. And we'll have to finish this in part two, which will come out tomorrow.
>> Yeah, I'll try to edit it as soon as I can and and release it as soon as I can.
Uh cuz we a little more to dive into. >> A lot more to dive into. And of course,
our recommended reading for tonight is Colombo, the Unsolved Murder by Don Capria and Anthony Colombo. Uh I'm going
to read a little caption that I found uh regarding the book itself. You know, I'm
not writing my own here. To the media and the FBI, Joe Colombo was the head of one of New York's infamous five
families. To the Italian-American community, he was an organizer and a leader. To his family, he was a great
husband and father. Who was responsible for Joe Columbo's death? And why have the efforts that Joe made for the
Italian-American community gone unrecognized? All this stuff has weighed very heavily on Anthony Columbo for
years and he has finally decided to write a book to address who Joe Columbo really was and to address who should be
held responsible for his death. The book is based on Anony's personal life beside
his father and his in-depth knowledge surrounding his shooting and the suspiciously flawed investigation into
his death. So, pick up Columbombo, an unsolved murder by Don Capria and Anthony Colombo. You can pick that up at
our website trueimerg.com and click on the recommended page. We will see you right here back in the garage tomorrow.
>> So, don't be late. >> And until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter. Heat.
[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Joseph Colombo /// Episode: 72 /// Part 1

Part 1 of 2

Being the leader of one of New York's five crime families does not come without problems. Joseph Colombo was the boss of the Colombo mafia but he was also a family man and a community leader. Coming up through the ranks was tough though. Joseph's father was killed by a rival gang when he was just a teenager. In 1970 he created the Italian-American Civil Rights League. Joe arranged for the community to picket against J Edgar Hoover and the FBI as they harassed and used questionable tactics to arrest Italian-Americans. In 1971 Colombo was gunned down at a rally in one of the most publicized assassinations in New York's history. The shooter was quickly hand cuffed and shot in front of police. Jerome Johnson shot Colombo but who shot Johnson? Was it the police, was it one of Colombo's men or was it the FBI? Author and director Don Capria joins us in the garage to discuss the biggest conspiracy in New York mafia history.

Beer of the week - Green Diamonds by Other Half Brewing CompanyGarage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

Joseph Columbo's life, assassination, and legacy discussed with guests Don Capria and Anthony Colombo.

Key points

The Case of Joseph Columbo. The episode dives into the life and death of mob boss Joe Columbo.
Joe Columbo's Funeral. A modest funeral attended by few notable figures, highlighting his controversial life.
The Shooting of Columbo. Columbo is gunned down at a rally, sparking questions about who orchestrated the hit.
Unsolved Murder Discussion. Don Capria discusses his new book on Joe Columbo's unsolved murder.
Joe Colombo: A Natural Leader. Joe Colombo's leadership skills were evident from a young age, shaping his future in politics and organized crime.
The Impact of a Father's Murder. At just 14, Joe faced the trauma of his father's brutal murder, shaping his path.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Love the show, and I love how Nick doesn't seem to miss a beat.

Listener feedback from BK.

1:43WatchAug 25, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.