Jessica and the Bunny Ranch | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

This episode is about sex work and may not be suitable for everyone. Please use discretion.
>> I pay more in taxes than the average person makes as a salary in the year. So, um
I do I do well. >> This is a woman we're calling Jessica. That's not her real name.
She's an independent escort based in New York City and she charges $1,000 an hour
for her time with a 2-hour minimum. >> I would love to see like the the financial data. Like, how much is this
industry actually generating? Um how much are we paying in taxes, you know? I I I pay taxes, but it does not
say sex worker or escort on my on my tax return. >> How do you pay taxes? >> I file as a consultant. I have a CPA
uh who knows what I do, which is great. Um makes it a lot easier to not have to justify certain expenses and things. Um
he's also worked with other sex workers. That's how I got the recommendation. And actually, I want to pay taxes. I
want to have clean money so I can I can do things with my money. You you can't, you know,
cash is great if you want to go shopping, but you can't invest in your 401k or your brokerage account or buy a
house with with cash. >> She's typically paid by an online transfer to her LLC. If it's a very large amount, clients
wire the money. And when she does accept cash, she has specific instructions. Put it in an envelope. Don't hand it to
her directly. Put it in a book or in a gift bag. >> I have had clients like, you know, we'll we'll meet
at in the lounge of hotel or something and they'll very indiscreetly, you know, hand me an envelope or even just cash or
something. And I that's you know, someone's that could be that to me is like, Okay, this feels like
this could be a sting. if someone's watching that happen. That's like I'm incriminating myself. Um, so I'll just
walk away from that. But it it doesn't happen too often, but >> Is there any price negotiation or are
your prices set at this is what the hourly rate is, these are what my requirements are, like it or don't like
it? >> The only negotiation for me is with multi-day uh, trips. Um, you know, if we're going
somewhere great that I want to go to and, you know, if it's for a lot of days, I'm not going to charge the same day
rate for everything. But for me, no, my my This is why I like being an escort, not
a sugar baby or anything else. It's it it removes, I don't have any hustle. I I tried
stripping for a little bit and it is I just I don't have that. It's much easier for me to have this website and those
are my prices and take them or leave them. Um, the whole purpose is to you know, maximize income and minimize
time. So, the work smarter, not harder sort of thing. But I have um, basically I have a monthly goal for
myself and when I meet that goal, then I don't take on any more work. >> A book came out last year called
Revolting Prostitutes, written by two sex workers, Molly Smith and Juno Mack. In the introduction they write,
"Sex workers are everywhere. We're your neighbors. We brush past you on the street. Our kids go to the same schools
as yours. We're behind you at the self-service checkout with baby food and a bottle of Pinot Grigio.
Although we're everywhere, most people know little about the reality of our lives."
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Jessica became curious about sex work when she was 20. She was in college and
she and her roommate would watch a show on HBO called Cathouse, a reality TV show about one of the only
legal brothels in the United States, the Bunny Ranch. We'll visit the Bunny Ranch later in the
show. Jessica says she was fascinated by the whole thing. >> Um, yeah, so we I was living with my
roommate we would watch these shows and then one day she went on Craigslist and went to the erotic services section back
when that existed and she found the world of erotic massage which is essentially you get a hotel room and
give them a massage and then usually some form of a happy ending. And she's like, I could do that. And I was like, I
could do that. We felt safe because we were together and she eventually, you know, decided to stop doing it and I
decided to sort of forge forward and ultimately I became an escort. >> But when your friend decided not to
continue on with the work after a while but you did, what what did you like about it? What did you
what intrigued you and what were you hoping to do next? >> I did like the sort of
you know, adventurous component of it. It felt very like I was part of this underworld that you know, no one really
knew about and that was exciting and thrilling. Um, I guess I didn't really have a plan. I
was going to school. It was a great way to make I mean I could make a, you know, I
could wait tables and make what I would make in a week in like an hour or two doing doing this erotic massage work. So
that was obviously a huge incentive. >> Jessica's next step was to go back to Craigslist and begin researching escort
agencies. She says she was curious. So she wrote to an agency and set up a phone call with the manager. It was a
woman. Jessica said she felt comfortable so they arranged a meeting. >> And um, it was just more of an
opportunity to for her to sort of look at me and she asked me, you know, do do you know what the work is
um, without being explicit. And I said, yes. And she said, great, what name do you want to go by?
And that was it. And then she uh, she had a well-established business, so she had a
lot of clients and I only saw people that she had worked with before us. So, that was one of my rules at the time was
no new clients cuz I felt safer knowing that they had seen other women in her agency. And uh, at that point it was she
got I think about 25% and I kept the rest. Um, it varied a little bit, but my rate then was
between 260 and 300 an hour, which I thought was fantastic. And yeah, it seemed it seems like a good thing. I did
that for a pretty long time just because it was easy. >> Eventually, Jessica realized she could
go out on her own and work independently. Leaving the escort agency meant that she'd have to do all of her own
marketing. And she wouldn't have anyone to help her find or vet prospective clients.
But it also meant she would get to keep all of the money. For the last 5 years, she's been working
for herself. Tell me about the screening process and how important it is. >> It is very important for me. I will not
meet someone unless they follow my protocol exactly. I'm lucky enough to be able to um,
be a stickler about that, but the screening process in general is some combination of asking for
references, which means who have you seen before? Um, so they'll give me, you know, I ask for
two usually and they'll give me the names and websites of some women that they've met. At this point I've been in
the industry long enough where I at least recognize a lot of people on a visual basis such seeing their name, but
um, you know, if I don't, I go to their website, I suss out if the references seem legitimate, you know, do they have
a presence, do they have a social media presence, are they on Twitter, are they interacting with other people, does it
seem like people have met them? So, I sort of have to vet the reference. Um and then if they've seen personal
friends of mine or people I know well enough in the industry, that's usually enough for me personally. Uh but
sometimes they don't have a reference or just don't feel great about them. And so then I ask for their employment
information. Um and that generally means I have them email me from their work account to an
unpublished inbox of mine. Um so say it's you know, Goldman Sachs or something. So, then there's sort of like this paper
trail and it's, you know, it's not associated with me directly, but it's sort of like
it creates a sense of accountability. Um and it also proves that this is the person I'm speaking to. You know, I have
on my website um sending me a LinkedIn profile or telling me to Google you is not the same as
identification verification. You know, you can say you're Warren Buffett, but that doesn't mean you're him. So, I I I
need to sort of suss that out and then occasionally I will ask for a photo ID and um a selfie just to like compare the
photos. And that's that's sort of the overview of screening. >> So, you work together. So, when you're
saying references, you're saying um references from other women who have experience with him.
>> Correct, yes. So, they will tell me, you know, most of the time it's just like
yes, I've seen him, he's safe. Um or no, I haven't, this is a fake reference. Um sometimes they'll go into more
detail. They can tell me about his, you know, his hygiene, um if he was late. But you know, a lot of our work is is
networking, too. We we work together. Um we offer what we call in the industry duos where, you know, two of us will see
a client together. Um or trios or moresomes. Um So, yeah, we we we refer clients to each
other. We we share them. Um I always say that a uh networking trumps advertising any day.
You know, it's a weird world anyways because of all the stigma and legal issues attached to it. Um so,
having a community is so important for me. >> Does everyone in your life um know about your work and the industry
you're in? >> No. Most people do. Um all of my friends do. Most of my family does.
There's sort of this There's a bit of a don't ask, don't tell policy with uh like my parents, they found out a couple
of years ago. Um I was outed and word got back to them. And when they sort of confronted me about it, I did sort of a
you know, neither confirm nor deny. Um My sister knows. Uh she is wonderful and very supportive. Um
and so, she's she's navigated some of the you know, when I first moved to New York, my parents were like, "Why Why did
she do that again?" And she was just sort of like, "Let's just agree that, you know, we love her and we don't ask
questions." And they're like, "Okay." And I'm not close enough with my the people who don't know um
that it's worth it for me. But everyone that I like truly care about and have like a great relationship with,
definitely know. >> What are questions that you hate being asked when you tell someone for the
first time what you do? >> Um one of my least favorite questions is >> Have I asked that?
>> You have not. No, is uh You have not. Is uh what's the weirdest thing or the grossest thing or
you know, in in invoking some kind of trauma. They're trying to get me to share a trauma with them, and I always
find that to be a horrible question. Um and it's indicative of like the stigma, the idea of what people think sex work
is, I guess. Um but I really hate that question. >> You said that >> Even clients, even people who are, you
know, involved in the industry sometimes, they they can have a limited perspective. I had a client who said
like, "Oh, but like how do you date?" Um and that's that's also actually a pretty
horrible question as though because of my work I am undatable. Um and I I, you know, I was like, "Oh,
actually, you know, I'm married." And just like if if there was a if you could put a visual of like, you know,
the head exploding, that was what this guy looked like, and he was silent for like a minute, and I sort of poked him
and joked. I was like, "Yeah, it's a little surprising, I guess." And he was like, "I just I can't I can't imagine."
And then um he didn't want to see me again because I was married, which was also sort of interesting. It implies
this sort of like, you know, I'm owned by another man, so they can't see me even though I they intellectually know I
see many men as my work. It's Yeah, I don't know. >> Will you tell me about your clients? Who
is Who Who are you spending time with? What is the range? >> There's There's definitely a range.
There's an average, but there's a range. My youngest client was uh 19-year-old um
who hired me and another guy. He was a retail manager of some clothing store. I I don't know how he got the finances to
see us, but um I'll never forget him. He was sweet. And my oldest client was probably my first client. Um he was
well into his 80s, um if not early 90s. Um But I would say my average client is someone in his early 50s, white,
upper middle class, um to wealthy. I mean, I'm I'm not seeing the uber wealthy, but certainly
I have clients who have given me six figures a year cumulatively. And yeah, they just they some of them are
pretty dedicated to me and don't see anyone else. Some of them see me and a couple of my friends. Some of them are
what we call hobbyists in the industry where they want to meet a bunch of different girls and have
different experiences, um, you know, you have to deal with a lot of ego. You have to deal with a lot of
un-navigated waters sometimes for people if they're they're new to the world or even if they're not, they're just
they're just new to you and they're used to things a certain way and you know, once the clock is up for me,
I have used I've like budgeted my my resources and my energy for that time. Um, it's a lot of work, but I love it. I
always feel really energized after after having a session. >> She says she's working at a level now
where she doesn't seek many new clients. She has regulars and dedicated income coming in each month. She travels for
work, sometimes many times in a month, but traveling internationally can cause problems.
A few years ago, she was traveling from New York to Canada. She landed at midnight and when she got to
immigration, they were waiting for her. They had her website printed out. They showed it to her and said, "This is
you." They detained her for eight hours and then sent her back to New York. She was
prohibited from going back to Canada for a year. Jessica's an advocate for the decriminalization of sex work, the full
removal of criminal penalties for people both selling and buying sex. Decriminalization bills have been
introduced in Maine and Massachusetts. Opponents say that creating this legal path for sex work will encourage sex
trafficking. Amnesty International, the United Nations, and the World Health Organization have all recommended
decriminalization of consensual sex work. But at the moment, there's only one place in the United States where people
can sell sex services legally. The legal brothels of rural Nevada. The law is tricky. It's regulated by
county. Brothels are not legal all over the state. They're prohibited in counties
that include Las Vegas and Reno. But rural counties with a population under 700,000
get to decide for themselves whether or not to allow brothels. Oh, and here's our first sign
that says bunnies at play. It's like a road sign. There are two rabbits on top of each
other and it says bunnies at play. We visited the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. These are tumbleweeds?
Is this what a tumbleweed is? >> Well, my name is Alice Little and I'm a legal sex worker here at the Moonlight
Bunny Ranch. >> What is the Moonlight Bunny Ranch? >> The Moonlight Bunny Ranch is a legal
brothel out in one of the rural counties of Nevada. We're located in Mound House,
Nevada, which is the unincorporated adjacent town to Carson City, Nevada, about 45 minutes away from Reno. So, not
completely desolate. >> The Moonlight Bunny Ranch looks like an old wild west building that's been
painted pink. You press a buzzer at the gate. After being buzzed in, we were greeted by a
very big man wearing an HBO hat. He handed us brochures and asked if we were there to see anyone in particular.
There's a living room and a bar with a pink neon sign that says bunny bar. Alice Little has worked here since 2017
and is often described as the highest earning legal sex worker in the country. She was born in Ireland in a big family
and grew up in New York City and on Long Island. She worked as a jockey at Belmont
racetrack for a little while. She's 4 ft 8 in tall. She says she's always been curious about
sex, everything about it. Her parents never gave her the so-called sex talk, so she says she learned a lot from the
internet. She became especially interested in BDSM. >> When I was living in New York City as an
adult on my own, I had to of course have roommates like so many do when you live
in New York City and are fresh out of college. You can't afford anything. So, myself and my multiple roommates were
sharing a space together. Come to find out that one of them was employed by their parents' private BDSM dungeon in
New York City. Like this is fresh out of 50 Shades here. I was like, "What? You mean your parents own a secret sex
dungeon? I want in." And I nagged my roommate until I was eventually given a front desk position and eventually I was
given the responsibility of coordinating the education schedule. So, I was on the
phone with educators all across the country setting up all of these different classes.
And well, I was given the opportunity to get this world-class kink education from
all of these people flying in from all over the world. And eventually, I was asked to teach a class of my own for the
dungeon. One person saw me present and invited me to speak at another conference, and so I was invited
somewhere else, and before long, I was eventually invited to the BDSM conference in Rome.
Really crazy stuff, and through that avenue, I came across another sex educator that just so happened to be
employed at a little place known as the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. She shared her experiences at this location with me,
and I was all in. It pretty much was a 72-hour decision from the time that I thought about applying from the time
that I booked my first plane ticket to come out and do a 2-week tour. >> Had you known about the Bunny Ranch
growing up? >> I certainly had an idea. I may or may not have snuck out of bed when I was a
child to watch the HBO Cathouse series. Pleading the fifth here. Don't want to get myself in trouble. Love you, Mom.
But oh, I definitely knew what the Bunny Ranch was, and I was like, "Ooh, I remember that place." And I wanted to be
a part of that. I wanted to be a part of the experience. >> What What was it like when you first got
here? Just tell me about the first the 2-week tour. >> One of the things that the ranch does to
help the ladies get acclimated to their new career is to partner them up with a more experienced lady who kind of acts
as her big sister and mentor. She helps you negotiate your first few experiences,
learn about the different experiences that you can choose to offer, as well as let you know what your rights are as a
legal sex worker. >> Where are we sitting right now? Where Where are we right now?
>> We are in my private suite on the Bunny Ranch property, which is located slightly off of the main house because
I'm available by appointment only. I don't need to hear the lineup bell, which is how the ladies know that we
have company in the parlor. >> Alice Little appears to have some kind of seniority around here. She only sees
one client a day. She's two horses that live at the ranch. Her suite is away from the main building because she
doesn't participate in the lineup. >> So, what a lineup is is means that company has come into the parlor and is
looking to mix and mingle with all of the currently available ladies. A bell is pressed to let the ladies know that,
"Hey, we have company." The ladies then come out from their rooms or wherever they are on the property out to the
parlor where they all stand in a row with their hands clasped behind their back and go down one by one introducing
themselves by name. So, if I were in lineup, I'd say, "Hi, my name's Alice Little."
At that point, the gentleman or gentlewoman is then encouraged to reach out to the lady of his or her choosing
and then take a tour of the property. That's where we then go and explore the bar and parlor area. I'll typically
share with them where the ladies' kitchen is, introduce them to my horses. After we go through the tour, we then
return back to the ladies' room where she sits down with her guest and talks about what they would like to do with
their time together and how long they would like to spend together. Keep in mind that the lady chooses to take that
gentleman on tour. If she's picked by someone that she's not comfortable with, she's able to do a warm handoff to
another coworker and excuse herself politely from the situation. >> Every woman that works at the Bunny
Ranch has to register with the county sheriff's office. And you can't register to work in a
legal brothel if you have a criminal record. The women are also required by law to be
tested for STIs. According to Nevada law, sexual services and money may only be discussed in
person at the brothel. Rates cannot be posted online or discussed online or by phone. It all
must happen in person. So, for instance, if a guest chooses one of the sex workers from the lineup, they
go back to her room and negotiate. When a price is agreed upon, they go to see the Bunny Ranch cashier
called the hooker booker. >> The industry standard at this time is a 50/50 contractual split between the
legal sex worker and the brothel. Additionally, each brothel location charges a a menial amount of money per
day, kind of a a room and board expense. It covers your lights, your electric, food, the laundry, etc.
>> In 2018, a former madam, TJ Moore, told the New Yorker that the brothel keeps a close
tally of every expense, every condom, tampon, and hamburger patty. >> So, are your rates
is every woman's rates different? >> Oh, yes. Every single lady is an independent contractor.
As such, everyone's rates are different. >> Alice Little has said she aims to bring
in $84,000 a month, including at least one overnight client, for which she charges $20,000.
She says most of the time her clients are men, but not always. >> I've recently started seeing single
straight women that are interested in learning more about their bodies. They've never been taught how to
pleasure themselves, how to shop for a sex toy, how do I actually please my partner in the bedroom? Those are the
kinds of questions that single women are coming to me with, and I'm making experience happen for them that are more
educationally focused, or more exploration focused if they're instead coming here to learn about their own
bodies. It's incredible. We see men that are as young as the age of 18 and all the way into their 80s. We see couples.
We see gentlemen that are virgins who have never had sex before. And we also see individuals that have maybe lost
their partner, that are widows after their spouses passed away. There really is no stereotype for who is a client of
a legal sex worker. I always joke that like I'm a magician. I make fantasies come to life. And this
is the unique space that so long as you're comfortable communicating with me, we can make something really cool
happen. >> Do you think that some of us are more open than others? >> Absolutely so.
Many people learn how to feel about sex from their parents or from religious leaders. We base our perceptions of how
we should feel about sex and intimacy based off of how our parents react. When you get new information or learn
something, you have to be able to reevaluate what your opinion of that is. Often times when I ask someone, "Why are
you against legalizing sex work?" They're not able to actually answer my question. They've never actually asked
themselves, "Why am I against this?" Instead, they've internalized a feeling or a belief and convinced themselves
that this is reality that, "Oh, no, these women might be forced or coerced or trapped." But the reality is, we all
choose to be here. There's actually a waiting list of ladies that want to come in work here and there simply aren't
enough opportunities to pass around to everyone. >> For someone like you who is you're so clear and direct about how
this work is empowering, how this work is allowing you to choose your schedule, what you want to do, explore your body.
So what do you say to another woman who might be saying, "No, this is objectifying women. This is pushing us
backwards." I mean, what what does it make you feel when when you have or confronted with
all the other things people will say, especially women, about sex work? >> Oh boy, you just activated my trap card.
I've got quite the rant when it comes to being a genuine ally to sex workers. It
starts with listening to what they are saying. You can't be an advocate or an ally to them if you're
speaking over them and missing the context of what they are saying. If legal sex workers are telling you,
"Actually, I love my job and I'm empowered by it. I want to work here." you should instead say, "Okay, well, how
can I help you? What assistance do you need?" The biggest difficulty that I have as a sex worker is that nobody
wants to listen to me. Nobody actually is looking to talk to me. The media is constantly talking about me, but they
very often fail to actually reach out and talk to a legal sex worker directly. You're not an ally when you talk over us
and put your negative assumptions on us. And what I've learned is that you have to
listen to people and help them in the way that they want to be helped. >> We asked her why she chooses to be here
at the Bunny Ranch instead of working on her own. >> Ooh. Well, I've only ever worked as a legal
sex worker. I've never done independent sex work or illegal sex work. With that being said, I do think that
there should be an option legally in this country that allows for women to work independently through a legal
system. At this time in America, all legal sex workers have to be licensed through a Nevada brothel and work
associated with that brothel, but that's not true internationally. In New Zealand, they have a legal system that
allows for both legalized brothel work as well as legalized independent work, where the ladies are able to set up
their own in-call location and are able to set their own appointments and schedule themselves however they so
choose. I do think we need an option here in the states that allows for women to work legally independently.
It is a criminalized industry, and as such, they definitely will go after you if you choose to work in an
non-associated capacity. >> The Bunny Ranch was owned for more than 20 years by a man named Dennis Hof.
He published an autobiography called The Art of the Pimp. There are photos of Dennis Hof and
various celebrities posted all around the ranch. Governor Jesse Ventura, Larry Flynt,
Carrot Top, Vince Neil from Mötley Crüe. Which is interesting because Vince Neil
was charged with battery in 2003 for grabbing a Bunny Ranch sex worker by the throat and throwing her against a wall.
He pled no contest. Over the years, Dennis Hof was repeatedly accused of sexually assaulting his employees and
refusing to wear a condom. It's unclear why he was never prosecuted. But, reporters have noted that Dennis
Hof's brothels generated a lot of revenue for these rural counties. Former NBA player Lamar Odom overdosed
in one of Dennis Hof's brothels in 2015. He recently stated that he did not intentionally ingest any drugs, and
accused Dennis Hof of trying to kill him. Dennis Hof died last year of a heart attack just after his 72nd birthday
party. One month later, Nevada voters elected him to the State Assembly posthumously.
>> What about the negative stuff that when you hear the negative things that have
been said about Dennis Hof here? What do you say to the criticism that has come out of this place? Women
who have worked here, but also all of the criticism that's been said about the man who was running this place. What's
your answer to that? >> I can only speak to my first hand experiences. I by no means spent 24/7 with Dennis
Hof. So, I don't know what Dennis Hof did 24/7. And for me to say that I know what he did 24/7 would be a lie.
Instead, all I can do is speak as to the person that I interacted with. And in my
experience, he was nothing but wonderful. He was a very well-educated mentor, a very savvy businessman, who
really used the early instances of reality TV to his advantage. And I never experienced anything that would be
indicative of anything negative. >> The brothels of rural Nevada aren't just criticized because of Dennis Hof.
In our last episode, we spoke with a former sex worker named Cecilia Gentili. She's trans, and grew up in Argentina in
the 1970s. She's been arrested and even sexually assaulted by police. We wanted to get her take on these legal
brothels. >> It's fine. I think it's great to have spaces where like, you know, people can do sex work. I think
it's the places like the the Bunny Ranch is like who who works there, right? The ideas of
beauty are, you know, so uh terribly policed uh by owners. They, you know, if if, you know,
can you work at the Bunny Ranch if you are in your 50s and you don't have the perfect body and you're not blonde and
white? I I I I don't think I don't think places like the the the Bunny Ranch is is is
open to uh bodies and races and legal statuses and um uh uh ages, you know? Uh I think those
places are okay if you are young, skinny, blonde, white. Uh so those places are uh
targeted to a specific group of sex workers, right? Which is great that they have a place, but, you
know, if, you know, uh did you see a trans person in the ranch? >> No. >> Did you see uh a fat woman in the ranch?
>> No. >> So is that kind of legalized sex work open to every sex worker? I guess the answer is no.
So, I'm not against it, but it puts power over, you know, the the owner of the ranch into who you're going to hire.
When decriminalization is just open to everybody that that has to do sex work. >> Something that Cecilia and Jessica and
Alice all said to us was that while sex is obviously part of the job and it's the part outsiders are most curious
about, the real work has nothing to do with the sex. Alice Little says her most requested
encounter is the so-called girlfriend experience, a more involved kind of attention from her, holding hands, long
conversations, texting. >> The reality is is that sex makes up about 2% of what I actually do. Sex
isn't the focus, intimacy is. That's what people are coming to the Bunny Ranch for. It's never been the sex, it
never will be the sex. Sex is common, sex sex is everywhere. You can go to the bar and have sex if you want to.
People, I think, have this negative perception of monetizing sex because they don't see
the value in the labor that women are actually doing. When a woman is being communicative,
intimate with a non-experienced partner and is focusing on them, helping them, teaching them, that's there's value to
that. That's that's work. And I don't think people truly understand what it is that people are buying when
they come to a legal sex worker. They assume that they're buying sex, that they're paying for a blow job, you know,
dollars for minutes, but that's just not the case. They're coming to buy something that's intangible, this
emotion, essentially. they're coming and experiencing connection, and that's where the real value lies.
>> Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer.
Audio mix by Rob Byers. Special thanks to Susanna Robertson. Julian Alexander makes original
illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show. Criminal is recorded in the studios of
North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We're proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collection of the best podcasts
around. Shows like Ear Hustle, which share stories about daily life in San Quentin State Prison from the
perspective of those living in it. Season 4 has just launched. After co-host Earlon Woods got some
exciting news last fall, this season will be a little different than the other three.
>> We're also telling stories about life outside prison, post incarceration. >> So, a lot of people ask me what it was
and how long I have to wear it and why do I have it on and like, damn, it seem like you locked up, you still got to
wear that and how long you got to wear that? >> Outside stories, inside stories, it all
starts with episode 1 of season 4 of Ear Hustle from PRX's Radiotopia. >> Ear Hustle is back.
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I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. >> Radiotopia from PRX.

In a previous episode (https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-115-cecilia-5-24-19/) we spoke Cecilia Gentili, a trans Latina who worked for many years as an undocumented sex worker. Today, we get two more views of sex work in America. We speak with a high-end escort in New York City, and take a trip to one of the only legal brothels in the country — the Moonlite Bunny Ranch, where we speak with Alice Little.

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode 116 originally published June 7, 2019. https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-116-jessica-and-the-bunny-ranch-6-7-2019

Music in this episode: “The Last Run” by Blue Dot Sessions “The Poplar Grove” by Blue Dot Sessions “Slimheart” by Blue Dot Sessions “Sino de Cobre” by Blue Dot Sessions “The Face of the Thrush” by Blue Dot Sessions “Only Lonesome” by Blue Dot Sessions “Trailrunner” by Blue Dot Sessions “Slow Toe” by Blue Dot Sessions

Brief Summary

Jessica and Alice discuss the realities of sex work, including finances, legal issues, and societal stigma.

Key points

Jessica's Tax Payments. Jessica reveals she pays more in taxes than many earn in a year.
The Reality of Sex Work. A quote from 'Revolting Prostitutes' highlights the invisibility of sex workers.
Financial Incentives in Escorting. Jessica explains how she can earn a week's salary in just a couple of hours.
Energized After Sessions. Jessica shares her feelings post-session, emphasizing her passion for her work.
Alice's Journey to the Bunny Ranch. Alice Little reflects on her childhood curiosity about the Bunny Ranch.
The Reality of Legal Sex Work. Alice discusses the misconceptions surrounding sex work and the importance of choice.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Sex workers are everywhere. We're your neighbors.

Quote from the book 'Revolting Prostitutes'.

3:11WatchMay 26, 2026

Tension

40/ 100Low tension

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