Cecilia | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

This episode contains references to sexual violence. Please use discretion. When I was a child I thought I was an
extraterrestrial, that I was an UFO. Uh and I told my grandmother that it was a really funny story.
And uh What did she say when you said you were a you >> Yeah. My brother told me that they found
me in a railroad. Right? One day we were like crossing a railroad and my brother told me, "That's where we
found you and my um took you with us because you were naked on the railroad as a baby."
And around the same time I I was kicked out of the bathroom in the girls' bathroom in school.
And um I'm from an area of Argentina where is a lot of UFO activity in the '70s.
So I put two and two together and I went to my grandma and I said, "Grandma, I think I know what happened.
I am an alien that I was left by mistake here, but I belong to a country where to
a a planet where all the girls have peepees like me." And my grandmother, being the great
grandmother that she was, she says, "That makes sense. I'm pretty sure that's true." And uh we
slept under, you know, outside in the in a huge patio with uh trees that she fruit trees that she had. And we spent
the night outside waiting for, you know, for my family from another planet to come and
and rescue me. And of course that didn't happen. Cecilia Gentili was born in 1972
in a very small town in Argentina. I you know, I I was always, you know, using the girls' bathroom.
Um you know, I always had a tendency Sometimes I didn't say that I was a girl, but I always said that I wasn't a
boy. That was a a constant for me. And around um my teenager years and adolescence,
uh I I I started being attracted to to other boys and I thought like I guess like being gay
is the closest thing to what I feel, you know, at the time. It wasn't conversation about trans people and it
wasn't a conversation about being trans. There was no internet, you know, so I thought I was crazy for a long time.
And when I when I went to the big city, you know, to go to college at age 17, I met the first trans person that I ever
met in my life. And it was like this huge realization of like, you know, first of all, I'm not
crazy. Second of all, I may not be a UFO person. I I may not be an extraterrestrial.
And and there is like, you know, it is people like me in the world, you know. So,
I just verbally almost assault this woman cuz it was like, "Please, please, please help me,
help me, help me. I need you, I need you. I'm like you. I I need help." She was like, "Oh, calm down."
And uh I you know, she said, "Okay, you know, I'll help you." She said, "I'm working
right now." She was in the street. She said, "I'm working right now. Go Go the bar and when I finish working, uh
we'll meet and we talk more. And that's what I did. I waited all night in the bar and
then she told me, you know, "Yeah, you know, you you can be trans. Um there's three things that you need to
know. You're going to be a [ __ ] You're going to get high and you're going to die young.
Those are the three things that you need to know and be clear about before making
the decision of uh transitioning. And I didn't doubt it for a minute. I said, "Yes, yes, and yes. I'm okay with
all of those." I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. I thought that uh you know, that
that was the only way to survive, right? Uh it it was, you know, it wasn't like the idea of having a job while being
trans was not possible. Uh the idea of you know, uh being a housewife, you know, uh and
having a husband that takes care of you, uh it wasn't possible because like anybody
uh you know, uh usually all the um men that I uh dated at the time were dating me under
these extreme shaming, you know, cloud were like uh they used to say that they were my boyfriend just
in a in between, you know, four walls in in in a room, but nobody would hold my hand
in the street, you know? So, uh it was like, "Hey, you know, all these guys wants to have sex with me.
Nobody wants to be my boyfriend. So, I may as well just get some money out of it, you know, so and survive."
So, it was more like organically came with the idea of being trans, the idea of being a sex worker. So,
it was like, you know, it it for me it was like "This is what the life of a trans person is, and
I am trans, I and this is what I have to do." It was also a lot of reaffirmation with sex work.
You know, when you have like all these the rest of the world telling you that, you know, that you are wrong, that you
are an abomination, that you know, you your body is a mistake. And at the same time, you have all these
people paying for your body and for your time. So, it was it was very reaffirming.
How was the money? Um the money was good. Um I work a lot, you know, I um I I make decent money in in the street,
enough to survive. Uh but not enough to go ahead with certain uh surgeries that I wanted.
Uh you know, money was enough to pay rent and to eat. Um but I wasn't making money. Uh
my transition wasn't going where I wanted to go. Um my life wasn't going where I wanted
to go. And um interactions with police and um overall, you know, really um it really really bad experiences.
Sex work was so heavily policed in Argentina that at this point uh uh last year uh a group of trans women from the city
that I'm from were given a reparations pension for all the suffering that the law enforcement
uh made them go through. I hope that gives you an idea of what kind of oppression we were going through
at the time. It is like, you know, trans women receiving a reparations pension. That's how bad the government
feels about the treatment that they gave us. And you know, it wasn't only just like,
you know, being arrested. It was like, you know, being you know, uh asked for sexual favors and and asked
for bribes and money and uh being humiliated. So, you know, I would do anything not to be arrested. I would do
anything basically anything not to be arrested. When Cecilia was growing up in Argentina, trans people could be
arrested for just walking down the street. As she got older, she moved around trying to find a place where she felt
safe and could do her job. And I guess neighbors started calling the police because I was around.
And I you know, for a moment I thought like, you know, I found a place where I can
just do what I do without being um bothered. And um you know, the police started stopping
me. And they um they um sexually I saw I was sexually assaulted by two officers and um
And I said like, you know, it's never it's never going to be a place where I can
do what I do and not have to go through these things. Um it was like this sense of like it's not
a safe place for me in this anywhere in this city. And uh I am just going to die here.
Um so I thought like, you know, I have to do something with my life now. Uh and that was, you know, when the idea
of leaving Argentina, trying to build a future came about. And that's how I came to Miami.
Did you think it would be easier to be a sex worker in America? Oh, I thought like it would I thought it
was going to be people at the airport waiting for me offering me jobs. That's That was
That was my idea of the United States. I thought like it were people waving an American flag and saying like welcome
and offering me all their jobs, so I didn't even have to do sex work anymore. And that wasn't the case.
I have to say that was not the case. Cecilia says that when she arrived in Miami, she started looking for jobs
right away. She looked for a job in a hair salon, but she didn't have a license and she was undocumented.
This was in 2000. She was 27. So, uh you know, whatever got better in terms of me
being trans in the United States, got worse in terms of being undocumented. And of course, the only thing that I
knew how to do was sex work besides hair and that's what I did. Her plan was to work for 3 months in the United States
because as much money as possible and then fly home to Argentina just before her visa expired.
But 4 days before her flight home, Cecilia was arrested. I got arrested on Washington Avenue in Miami.
And I remember um you know, I remember like the girls that you know, the other girls taught me like certain
tricks that they're not even true. It's just it's just you know, things that you do
and say like you know, if you touch the client, if it's a police officer, it's is supposed to let you touch him.
This is totally [ __ ] I you know, I touch I even had oral sex with police officers and after we had oral sex, they
arrested me. You know, or if you ask them if they're police officers, they have to tell you
if they're police officers. So, you know, I did my whole like you know, list of things to make sure that this guy
who stopped me in a taxi in a yellow taxi wasn't a police officer. He was a the passenger in the taxi. So, I went in
the taxi and I said, "Are you a police officer?" And he said like, "No, I'm not."
And then I touched him and and he allowed me to touch him. So, I said, "Well, he's not a police officer." And
he said, "How much is you know, for a date?" So, I told him how much it was. He says like, "Do you have another
friend that you can bring with us?" And I said, "No, none of my friends are in the street
right now." And um then he stopped the the taxi and we got out of the taxi. And the taxi driver came out of the
taxi, too. And I thought that that was weird. And they arrested me and I said, "But you
told me that you're not a police officer." And he said, "I'm not a police officer. The taxi driver is."
And I got arrested and I was uh um I went to the the precinct, I guess. And uh uh of course, they put me there with
the men. Uh I saw the judge and the judge let me go uh with the I needed to surrender my passport.
So um I was not able to take my flight. And at that point, I overstayed my my visa.
So I made a decision to just stay stay here in the United States uh fully as an undocumented person.
And I'm going to fully dedicate myself to sex work. And um that's what I did. And I kind of stopped working in the
streets mostly. And I focused on um ads. I had ads in the paper. I had ads in a special magazine in Miami called
Unique Encounters. Uh really funny name, Unique Encounters. And um I you know, you put pictures there and
your phone number, people would call you. And then I found the internet, you know,
and uh I found the internet and uh and uh money started being good and I had, you know,
my first breast implants and I had a couple of like facial surgeries. I had laser. I had laser in my face. So like
now not having facial hair was a such a like uh amazing moment in my life. So you know, I started being happy.
Plus you know, I was starting like I started making, you know, relationships here. I had friends. So um uh it was you
know, it was hard. It was hard, but um I it was better than in Argentina. So I I wanted to stay here.
It was a a beautiful community, you know, all my friends that were doing sex work, you know, with me at the same
time, you know, they were really good people, you know, they were help we were helping each other all the
time. Uh we were supporting each other. Uh we were like, you know, in constant um communication, like, you know, this
number is going to call you, don't answer, it's a waste of time, or this guy is going to try to come and see you,
uh don't see him because he's violent. So, we had a network uh where we we, you know, were all
co-workers, I guess, and uh and friends, you know, and we spent time and we cooked together. It was like
really nice. So, um uh it was times where I say like this is too much, but it was also good times
with the with community. And how did life get better when you could start getting your clients
online so that you weren't out on on the streets, but rather Yeah, at home, you know.
>> at home. At home. So, for me it was the you know, it was like, oh, this is great, you know, I just can be at home.
I can making, you know, be making my own meals. And if I have a client I mean, I
just stop and do my client and then eat the food that I cooked myself, you know.
Uh you know, things are different when you're home, it's, you know, you're in your place, things are yours. Um so, uh
for me it it was uh better. Again, you know, um you know, I was always worried that, you know, uh uh
a police officer could come and arrest me, you know, it was very common in South Beach that uh you know, police
would make themselves look like clients uh sign, you know, in the phone saying that they were clients.
And um um they um they would come and arrest you. So, you know, sometimes like, you know, uh
I would, you know, be looking in the window to see, you know, who my client was and like sometimes I would just
think like, this guy looks like a looks like a police officer. Um and um every time I would see a client with a
shaved head I I associate that with police officers, I guess. So, I would never see them, you
know, they I never opened the door. She says the internet helped a lot. Cecilia could now look someone up before
deciding whether to meet them. And sex workers in Miami could communicate on forums and warn each
other about police, violent clients, or clients that wouldn't pay. They would ID clients by phone number in
case they'd given a fake name. So, it was great, you know, life was much better.
Of course, all of that ended with SESTA FOSTA. SESTA and FOSTA would stand for the Stop
Enabling Sex Traffickers Act and the Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act are a set of bills that were signed into law
last April. Under the law, website publishers, including sites like Craigslist, would
be responsible if anyone posts ads for sex work on their platforms. The bill's supporters framed this as an
important way to curb sex trafficking online. Critics argue that it makes no distinction between victims of sex
trafficking and consensual sex workers. One of the immediate effects of the law was that those sites that sex workers
used to find clients and communicate with each other started shutting down. Are sex workers less safe without these
types of sites? Of course. You know, we don't have the opportunity to, you know,
uh look in there, you know, in our forums and like to see if, you know, the the clients that are coming to see us
are, you know, uh not good, you know? Um and also, like where, you know, many of
us are not able to advertise. You know, people had to go back to the streets, you know?
Uh people that were not used to the streets anymore, you know? And also, like, you know, the fact that it was
more more sex workers in the streets, it gave clients a certain, um l- level of leverage, right? Because,
you know, sex workers had to, you know, take clients, you know, that they wouldn't otherwise, just because, you
know, they needed to work. So, uh system forced that, you know, and shutting down
the websites, you know, was terrible for the sex workers community. It's really terrible, really, really terrible.
It seems like not many people understand just how common sex work is. Do you think that's right?
Absolutely. After living in Miami for 5 years, Cecilia started getting threats that
she'd be reported to the police as an undocumented immigrant. So, she moved to New York. I used to
live on Mott Street and uh me and a friend of mine, you know, had apartments right across the hall.
And um police went once and um uh they raided her apartment and arrested her. And they were knocking on
my door and knocking on my door and knocking on my door and I just didn't open. I was terrified.
And you know, and I looked through the peephole and I you know saw how they were taking her and they were really
they really wanted me too. And I just didn't open. Nobody should have to work or do what they do for living with this
terrible fear of being arrested all the time. Are there fewer clients now? Um I I couldn't tell you. Um
uh I haven't uh been actively working for uh a couple of years now, but you know
uh I am in touch with most of my friends and like you know it is a lot of consensual sex uh nowadays in forums
like Grindr, Tinder and all of that. So uh I I notice that you know, it's less clients because it's more opportunities
to have sex uh consensual sex for free. But of course that is not regulated. It does not does not criminalized, right?
But once you exchange money for sex, you are a criminal. So uh you know when you
play football you are selling your body for money. Right? Just in a way that you know, you're
selling your the strength of your body to catch a ball, right? It's nothing different, right? If you
know how to cook, you become a chef. I know how to have sex, so that's why I became a sex worker.
Um so uh I think like because of the idea of sex it has been uh painted as something that is sinful and
not moral, you know, uh had created this idea that sex work should not be allowed.
How much of sex work is talking, making people feel good about themselves and not
actually having >> Yeah. A lot. A lot. A lot. A lot of sex work is is a lot of therapy.
I always said that, you know, I should have a social um work degree because I have
counsel and uh listened to uh an incredible amount of uh people, you know, who, you know, hire me uh
through sex work and in reality sex was the least that we did uh in our encounters.
Um I uh you know, I I encounter all kind of people and you know, with some of them
was also a lot of sex, you know, uh but uh with most of them was just that human
connection, right? People have need to be connected and to feel comfortable about who they are, you know, uh
so it is a lot about the connection and sometimes it's about sex, too. Cecilia now lives in Queens. She was
granted asylum in 2011. She plans to apply for citizenship next year. And I have a very, uh, I don't know
what's normal, but in my idea of normality, I have a very normal life. I have a partner. He's, uh, wonderful and
I love him very much. Um, we we get up at 7:00. I make some breakfast or or coffee. And he goes to work and I
get ready and I start with my, uh, work. And, um, uh, what I do is advocacy. Um, and then I
would do all kind of, uh, you know, after work activities and I would come back home
tired and have dinner with my partner and go to sleep. So, that's my life. That's my life nowadays. Um,
you know, it's another kind of busy. Today she's active in efforts to decriminalize sex work in New York.
She runs a policy reform organization called Trans Equity. And she leads a support group for
undocumented trans Latinas. What do you want to say now to that little girl thinking that she was an
alien, um, uh, seeing all that you've seen now and where you are in your life. What would
you say Uh, I think I think that we are all aliens until we find our communities.
You know, I think, uh, you know, some of us find our community with our own family.
And some of us don't. So, for those that don't find their own community with their own families,
it is a family out there and you just have to look for them and when you find them,
you will find your family and you will find your planet somehow where you don't feel like a like
an extraterrestrial. Um so, it is a hard but beautiful journey. Uh but the reward of finding your
community is wonderful. In our next episode, we go to one of the only legal brothels
in the United States, the Bunny Ranch, where we spoke with the top earning legal sex worker in the country.
Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer.
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A few days ago, Wesley Stern, an actor that I was helping to get huge for an action movie called Immortal Cop, was
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something to do with it. Now, I need to clear my name. Somebody out there killed Wesley, and I'm going
to do whatever it takes to find them. Go listen. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
Radiotopia from PRX.

When Cecilia Gentili was growing up in Argentina, she felt so different from everyone around her that she thought she might be from another planet. “Some of us find our community with our own family and some of us don’t.” Today, Cecilia runs a policy reform organization called Trans Equity. She’s active in efforts to decriminalize sex work in New York, and to repeal SESTA-FOSTA.

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode 115 originally published May 24, 2019. https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-115-cecilia-5-24-19

Music in this episode: “Folly and Typeset (Marimba)” by Blue Dot Sessions “The Mandrake” by Blue Dot Sessions “Valantis” by Blue Dot Sessions “Delamine (Music Box)” by Blue Dot Sessions “A Pleasant Strike” by Blue Dot Sessions “Margerie” by Blue Dot Sessions “La Inglesa” by Blue Dot Sessions “Camp Fermin” by Blue Dot Sessions

Brief Summary

Cecilia Gentili shares her journey as a transgender woman and sex worker, discussing challenges, community, and advocacy for decriminalization.

Key points

Cecilia's Childhood Belief. Cecilia believed she was an alien left on Earth, leading to a humorous exchange with her grandmother.
Realization of Identity. Meeting her first trans person was a pivotal moment for Cecilia, affirming her identity.
The Risks of Transitioning. Cecilia reflects on the harsh realities of transitioning and the risks involved.
Fear of Arrest. Cecilia discusses the constant fear of arrest faced by sex workers.
Emotional Labor in Sex Work. Cecilia highlights the emotional connections formed in her work as a sex worker.
Finding Your Community. The journey to find belonging can be hard but ultimately rewarding.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I thought I was crazy for a long time.

Cecilia's feelings about her identity before meeting a trans person.

2:44WatchJun 9, 2026

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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