Inside the Lori Vallow Daybell Trial: Broken Trust | "48 Hours" Podcast | Forensic Files

foreign you testified that you trusted your sister after the discovery of JJ and
Tyler did that change yes why [Music] I felt like too and my interest in my sister was broken
foreign Vigliotti we're starting this week's special episode of 48 hours with emotional testimony from Lori valodie
Bell's sister summer schifflit we're in the fourth week of testimony and Laurie dabel's trial for the murders of her two
youngest children Joshua J.J valo and Tyler Ryan She's accused along with her husband Chad dabell of JJ and Tyler's
murders as well as the murder of Chad's late Wife Tammy Dabo they've both pleaded not guilty and Chad Abel's trial
will occur at a later date the 48 Hours team has been reviewing hours and hours of chord audio bringing you the latest
highlights from each week of the trial we'll get into testimony from both Lori valadebell's sister as well as Tammy
dabell's sister Samantha gwilliam we'll also learn more about what might have actually happened to JJ vallo and Tyler
Ryan for all the latest we're back with long time 48 Hours producer Richie Fetzer who's been covering the case
alongside me since 2019. welcome back Reggie hi Jonathan um thank you for having me back there's
certainly a lot to talk about this week there is and much like last week the court heard gut-wrenching testimony from
someone who may know Laurie as well as anyone else her sister summer schifflett I can't imagine Richie how hard it must
be for her to have testified against her sister it's been reported that schifflick cried throughout her
testimony which isn't surprising considering what she had to say about her relationship with Lori she and Lori
were very close growing up according to schifflett and then as adults schifflett
said that she was present in Lori and the children's lives did you uh see Tyler grow up
yes how would you describe Tyler describe her as beautiful and witty and in a lot of different ways but
eventually shifflett said she too began to hear Laurie's stories about past lives and the end of times right yes
that's correct shifley testified that Laurie changed after she met Chad dabell and began to tell stories that shifflett
found hard to believe 2019 did she tell you that she had been someone else in another life
prior to 2018 prior to 2018. no in late 2018 or 2019 did she tell you that yes that she did she tell you about
her previous lives yes did any of that make sense to you not really uh did you believe it
I tried to I wanted to believe her but it didn't make sense listening to this it seems shiftlet really wanted to
believe her sister but just couldn't wrap her mind around the things she says Lori was telling her
fair to say that you trusted what she told you yes you believed your sister when she stated
to you that JJ and Tyler were safe yes I'm going to draw your attention to early June of 2020. when JJ and Tyler's
bodies were found you testified that you trusted your sister after the discovery of JJ and
Tyler did that change yes why I felt lied to and my trust in my sister was broken
now Richie I know you remember this I interviewed schifflett and her and Lori's mother Janice Cox about a month
before JJ and Tyler were found and what struck me from that conversation was how
much they believed the children were still alive possibly being hidden by friends maybe even in a bunker these
were theories that they were all kind of mulling through their mind of course a much different scenario yes and of
course when we did that interview it was just before the children's bodies were found and both of them really believed
that JJ and Tyler were safe because that's what Lori was telling them and they really believed you know according
to that interview that Lori was incapable of harming her children right and you can hear the apparent change for
shifflet in a recording of a video called prosecutors played between shifflet and Laurie from 2020 this was
just days after the children's remains were recovered at the time of this call Lori was already in jail on child
abandonment charges and just days away from being charged again this time with two felony accounts of conspiracy to
commit destruction alteration or concealment of evidence here's what summer asked her sister then
this audio it's hard to hear it's recorded audio it's being played back inside the courtroom it's also very
emotional as Laurie's sister confronts Lori about the deaths of her niece and nephew
s [Music] we don't understand and you know they were there you can't talk about it
Lori vallo relatively calm there as you can hear her sister struggling at times to even catch her breath to get a word
out there's a big pause in the conversation but shiftlet keeps questioning Lori um
yes I do wow it is just heart-wrenching to hear shifflett in this call and it's interesting as the call continues
schifflet still seems open to hearing Lori out about what actually might have happened to JJ and Tyler
don't understand kills me it's just a little kid again [Music] [Music] discoveries
[Music] that's what you think I don't know I cannot I would love to it's so hard Richard to listen to this I
mean clearly emotional but having spoken with summer schifflett and her mother back at a time when they were still full
of hope that JJ and Tyler were alive clearly obviously this is the reality that summer should flip faces while also
coming to terms with what sounds like this growing Instinct that maybe her sister was involved
I mean that's I think the only conclusion you can come to listening to this and the devastation in her voice is
frankly really hard to listen to uh shifley continues to question what Lori was thinking jetting off to Hawaii just
weeks after police say her children had been killed and buried in her then very new husband Chad dabell's backyard
wedding pictures I have and guess what I don't have one scripture that says it's okay for
children to be drawn away by carvings in the ground and if that's okay there's nothing in the scripture that is
Godly about hurting a child nothing I can't support that helpful to everyone this is the most
selfish incredible no they can't think of anything worse there's a part of the call that we'll
listen to coming up where it seems like Lori is getting frustrated saying nobody's seen me on the floor
correct nobody knows what I've been through my children that I love more than anything
you were dancing on a beach with a smile on your face I'm trying to go on with what you don't
see I'm trying to find some kind of how conditioning I wanted to be alone do you think that your mother and your
sister and your son don't deserve to know that the children are gone why wouldn't you call and tell us that
why won't they cut off and you want to be happy he's gonna be happy with family in your
life until you're stuck in jail and I'm the only one stupid enough to be your friend when I've been your best support
of Maria h mad about you it hurts me I don't want to see you in jail I don't want you to be there I don't want people
to misunderstand if you would tell me the truth I would stand up wrestling times
wow as this call continues schiftlet goes on to implore Lori to consider that Chad
daybell might have misled her you know I'm trying to support you in all of them but I am telling you
because I love you with all my heart please consider that Chad has light and fantasy and that you have been deceived
and that this is not what you think it is now you're hearing a lot of sniffling and that is summer schiffler in court
listening back to this audio recording as it's being played despite the love shifflett says she has for her sister
she keeps suggesting that she believes Lori was somehow involved in JJ and Tyler's deaths and this week turns out
to be a week of sisters testifying summer schifflett wasn't the only sister we heard from
thank you honor will you please state your name and spell your last name Samantha William g w i l l i a m
are you related to Tammy davil yes I am she's my sister so we just heard the voice of uh Samantha William she
testified how she and Tammy dabell grew up as the only girls amongst five siblings and how they stayed close
throughout their entire lives that is she says up until Chad moved Tammy and the family to Idaho you know before that
Williams says she saw Tammy every day and William rachite testified about what she says were some bizarre events
starting with some visits her sister made took Williams home before she died William said during one unannounced
visit she saw Chad sitting in the car while Tammy brought over a birthday present William says this distance was
out of character for him meaning that he should normally have come up with that birthday present as well on Tammy's last
visit she points out Chad wasn't present at all which William says was strange since Tammy did not like to travel alone
Richie what else did William Tell jurors according to William the most telling stories occurred after Tammy dabell's
death when she says Chad dabell told the family he'd remarried a woman named Lori
you don't get married four weeks after you just buried your wife of almost 30 years you just don't do that
and we found out it had only been two weeks after she had been buried and we were devastated
devastated William says Chad told her that Laurie's previous husband had died of a heart attack and they had bonded
over the deaths of their spouses now it's true that Lori valodiebo's third husband Joe Ryan had died of a heart
attack but that statement omits what happened to Lori's fourth husband Charles valo who Lori had been married
to just before she married Chad dabel William looked up Lori on the internet and says she learned about Charles
valo's shooting death at the hands of Lori's brother Alex Cox just four months earlier
um I discovered her her name was tied to valo and it brought up newspaper articles about a man in Arizona who had
been shot in his own home by a brother-in-law and I took that to my husband and I said I
think this is the same woman that he's married as William's testimony continued she
says that she continued her research and she found an obituary for Charles valo where K Woodcock Charles valo's sister
and JJ's grandmother comments about how quote we will take care of JJ unquote so this reference to a young child
raised red flags for William she says she hadn't heard anything about children before this so she says she asked Chad
about it and I said well so please help me understand so now that you've married her are you are there
children because I had seen the other information and I said are you going to be raising
kids together so after she asked that question William says this was Chad dabell's response and he told me no
that there's no children and that they were going to be empty nesters empty nesters let's be clear here we
know Lori did have children so for Chad dabel to say they were empty nesters I'm
sure prosecutors see this as a very damning statement yes I I think that's the only way you can look at it and
Williams says she then asked about how the family would support themselves after Tammy dabell died since Williams
says Tammy as a school librarian was the main Breadwinner in the family and in the past Chad had relied on Tammy to
contribute to the finances correct Chad was not able to financially support the family by himself no
and he wasn't he didn't indicate to you that he'd found a new profession to do that no
so presumably he may have needed to rely on support from his new spouse correct he uh told us that she had lots of money
we have a lot more to get to but let's use this moment to take a quick break when we come back we're gonna hear
testimony from crime scene analysts forensic experts and others who helped answer the question of what actually
happened to Tyler Ryan and JJ vallo [Music] foreign [Music] producer Richie Fetzer last week we
learned more about the deaths at the center of this case finally getting a little more clarity on where and how the
children and Chad dabell's Wife Tammy died the testimony highlighted the scale and the depth of this wide-reaching
investigation pulling agents and researchers from countless different government agencies Richie what did we
learn from these experts yes so while we've already heard testimony about the June 2020 search of Chad day Bell's
property FBI special agent Steve Daniels helped jurors picture the real scale of
the operation on this on this site besides the evidence response team members we had about eight we had
Rexburg police department members we had Fremont County Sheriff's department members we had other
FBI employees helping on the scene so when listening to this chord audio I couldn't believe how many tools were
being used in the search some are what you might expect like shovels rakes metal trowels and even a drone but there
were other things that might not immediately come to mind like a high-tech laser Pharaoh scanner which
makes a three-dimensional scan of the crime scene and then on the other end of the tech spectrum they use tongue
depressors which they use to process the skeletal remains right and I understand
part of why they needed all of those tools and this is graphic to discuss is because of how the remains were buried
while according to FBI special agent Daniels a team located JJ without much trouble they had a much more difficult
time with Tyler we do want to warn listeners that this material is still very disturbing so fast forward about
eight minutes or so if you'd like to skip ahead Richie so agent Daniels spent several minutes describing how much
difficulty they had digging through what they'd eventually realized was Tyler Ryan's burial site
for a long time officers didn't even realize kind of what they were looking at they were uncertain what they were
uncovering it included this green bucket that was melted and then what turned out
to be teeth and bone and even a necklace with a silver charm on it so just such a
big contrast for us as a team going from JJ's how precise everything was placed the stones the planks the wrapping of
the body all intact versus Tyler's a reminder that officers have said they believe Tyler was killed on or around
September 9th 2019 while JJ was killed later as he was last seen alive on September 22nd 2019. we've previously
reported this JJ's remains were found wrapped in duct tape and plastic tylies were discovered dismembered and severely
burned Richie what if anything can we deduce from the differences between how these two children were killed and
buried yes so I think the first thing that comes to mind is some of the testimony we previously heard from
Lori's sister-in-law zulemma pastenis that Lori allegedly said people could be taken over by demons or dark spirits and
that the only way to completely cleanse the body of these demons is to bind or burn it and you'll remember there was
testimony from other Witnesses claiming Lori had said both her children had been
possessed yeah it's all very disturbing the the medical examiners and forensic Pathologists who conducted autopsies on
JJ Tyler and Tammy Davis remains also testified their testimony as you can imagine was oftentimes very graphic and
the defense tried to argue against the autopsy photos even being shown is that correct Richie several experts testified
to the conditions of the children's remains and the tests that were done to hopefully learn what might have happened
to them Dr Garth Warren conducted both JJ and Tyler's autopsies and he repeated some of what we've heard before but he
went on further to conclude what the actual cause of death was for J.J valo I determine the cause of death to be
asphyxia buy a plastic bag over the head and duct tape covering the mouth and then there's another segment that's
other significant conditions I put bound with duct tape bruising to the arms and abrasion to the neck
But ultimately that the cause of death was asphyxia buy plastic bag over the head the head
and duct tape over the mouth Dr Warren also Drew attention to JJ's toxicology report which showed low
levels of a drug called GHB it's often referred to as liquid ecstasy some refer it to as a date rate drug
so it what it does it acts as a depressant on the central nervous system it can give you a sense of euphoria
it can give you a sense of calming relaxation liquid ecstasy or the date rape drug Richie please help me
understand this why would JJ have a drug like that in his system well Jonathan unfortunately it's kind of
impossible to know so Dr Warren he acknowledges that GHB can be found in a variety of drugs that people use both
medicinally and recreationally but it can also be found in the body naturally so we may never know you know why that
drug was found in JJ's system yet another very frustrating mystery moving on to Thailand her remains were found
scattered and burned so first of all Dr Warren was able to conclude that Tyler did not die naturally and that any
burning likely happened after she'd been killed Dr Warren based on your autopsy of Ty Ryan and based upon your education
training and experience have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of Tyler
Ryan yes I what is that cause of death I determine the cause of death to be homicide by unspecified means so Dr
Warren tells the jury I can't tell you exactly why it's a homicide but it is a homicide so the coroner's office ends up
sending Tyler's remains to Quantico where Dr Angie Christensen spends about a month scanning the fragments and
concluding that some of the bones show signs of what she calls quote unquote sharp trauma sharp trauma so Dr
Christensen testified that means something with a small surface area that was used to make an impact yeah that's
correct so another FBI analyst speculated that the injuries could have come from a bladed tool like a machete
or a hatchet okay so during testimony it was revealed some tools were found on Chad dabel's property where those also
sent to a lab they were sent to a lab there was more than a dozen items that they collected and sent for DNA analysis
a forensic pathologist her name is Catherine Dace testified that Tyler's DNA was was actually found on both a
shovel and a pickaxe recovered from Chad dabell's property it seems prosecutors are trying to connect the dots that
Tyler was killed and mutilated possibly using tools found at Chad day Bell's home yes and this evidence appears to be
pretty damning then plastic bags and duct tape were recovered from JJ's burial site and it was on one of these
pieces of duct tape that investigators recovered a hair a DNA analyst testified that after extensive testing the hair
was matched to a DNA profile for Lori valadebell here's more of the analyst describing how unlikely it was that that
hair could belonged to anyone else your statistics were 1 in 71 billion yes and he just again just and just briefly so
that we're all clear what exactly does that statistic mean so that means that if I were to see this
um I would stick my hand into a hat of DNA profiles I would expect to see this profile one in 71 billion times
and that's 71 billion with a B I think short story here the odds are not in Lori valo's favor here so Richie
prosecutors are trying to tie Laurie to JJ's burial is this the first time they've been able
to do that this is the first time that I've heard anything about any physical evidence tying Lori to JJ or tylie's
burial also on one of the plastic bags an Idaho State Police forensic scientist was able to find a finger and palm print
that matched Lori's brother Alex Cox we also learned that a phone connected to Cox was seen near Chad dabell's property
on September 9th a day after Tyler Ryan was last seen alive and then again on September 23rd a day after JJ was last
seen alive so none of this looks good for Alex Cox but will remind listeners Alex Cox will never go on trial for his
niece and nephew's deaths because he died in December of 2019 of what authorities say was natural causes in
addition to these testimonies Richie about the children's remains we also got a glimpse into what investigators say is
Tammy's cause of death as well yes so one of the first things we heard was a recording of a 9-1-1 call from Chad
dabell and his son Garth we just found my mom she's on the ground Frozen or she's
this and I don't know are you in Madison County or Fremont County Hello I'm Chad the husband
um she's clearly dead sorry okay okay are you in Rexburg or because your address shown to Rexburg
address that you're in Fremont County that's a wild person okay oh that's okay okay
[Applause] can I get your name oh man okay Chad I'm gonna get somebody up to you right now okay
a very distraught sounding Chad diebell on the phone with 9-1-1 after discovering his wife Tammy as he
described it clearly dead after Tammy's death there was some back and forth about if an autopsy should be done
Richie what happened here yes so according to Fremont County coroner Brenda dye who was on the scene at that
time chat Dave Bill did not request an autopsy be performed and ultimately in this case you
determined to not have an autopsy conducted is that correct after Consulting with
the detective over the phone and officer Green Hall and deputy coroner Wilmore did Chad request an autopsy no did he
make any indication to you regarding the autopsy no so it's important to note that during
cross-examination Lori's attorney Jim Archibald brings up that Chad dabel's daughter Emma Murray also did not want
an autopsy performed on her mother Tammy daybell so Chad and Emma Chad and Tammy's daughter
asked you please don't do an autopsy they didn't deem it necessary Emma was against it because of the
stent of she didn't want that done to her mom okay and and so is it fair to say that you
believed Chad's version of events of what happened to Tammy davil unseen at that time yes Richard can you
remind us what was the original cause of death coroner die testified that the original cause of death that she came up
with for Tammy dabell was that she died of natural causes cause was pulmonary edema
due to sinkable episodes with seizure-like activity um and the manor natural and again that was based on in excuse me
let me back up was that based in large part on information Chad davil provided you
yes and also a daughter gave me some medical history background on her but investigators began to view Tammy
dabel's death as suspicious due to her health age Chad Abel marrying Lori so soon after so they had to remains
exhumed two months later on December 11 2019. Miss die based on the information that
you learned from the medical examiner and attending the autopsy do you intend to modify the death certificate in this
case yes and what would you be changing the death certificate for Tamara daybell to
reflect cause of the death asphyxiation the manner of death homicide [Music] our team at 48 hours will be reporting
on the Lori velodable trial we plan to bring you the latest coverage and Analysis throughout the trial
exclusively on the 48 Hours podcast in the meantime be sure to follow and listen to 48 Hours wherever you get your
podcasts you can also listen ad free on the Amazon music or wondery app Richie thanks so much for debriefing us again
we'll check back in with you soon thank you again for having me we'll just have to see where this trial goes
foreign [Music]

Prosecutors bring cause of death for JJ Vallow, Tylee Ryan, and Tammy Daybell to the forefront of the trial. A lack of trust in Vallow Daybell is revealed when jurors hear emotional testimony from Summer Shiflet, Vallow Daybell’s sister. Tammy Daybell’s sister also speaks. CBS News national correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti and "48 Hours" producer Richie Fetzer bring you back inside the courtroom for week four of the trial.

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

Brief Summary

Lori Vallow Daybell's trial reveals shocking testimonies from family and forensic evidence linking her to the murders of her children and husband.

Key points

Emotional Testimony from Summer Schifflett. Summer Schifflett testifies against her sister Lori, revealing deep emotional turmoil.
Chad Daybell's Quick Remarriage. Samantha William testifies about Chad's remarriage just weeks after his wife's death.
DNA Profile Match. The hair matched a DNA profile for Lori with odds of 1 in 71 billion.
Alex Cox's Involvement. Evidence links Lori's brother Alex Cox to the burial site of the children.
Tammy Daybell's Death. Chad Daybell's 911 call reveals the shocking discovery of his wife Tammy's body.
Autopsy Decision Controversy. Chad and his daughter Emma did not want an autopsy for Tammy, raising suspicions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I felt lied to and my trust in my sister was broken.

Summer Schifflett reflects on her feelings after the discovery of JJ and Tyler.

4:09WatchMay 3, 2023

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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