How Amanda Knox Was Found Guilty Again | Crime Junkie | Forensic Files

hi crime junkies I am here today to bring you some breaking news in one of the most prolific cases in True Crime
history today I'm having a conversation with Amanda Knox because a verdict was just reached today that marks the end of
a knockout drag out 18-year battle to prove her innocence and clear her name once and for all and maybe you're
thinking that you thought she already had but if that's the case if you think that then you have only heard part of
her story The Italian Supreme Court found Amanda Knox officially guilty of slander today so what does that mean
well we're going to have Amanda tell you herself so how are you feeling um I um I was really trying to prepare for
this um because I I was deeply disconcerted when the Florence court of appeals convicted me in the first place
um I was really surprised because I was certain that I was going to be acquitted
um and so I I've been mentally trying to put myself in a position of um not just
being devastated but feeling like um I like there this isn't just something that's going to push me down it's
something that can give me wings um I I really do believe that whatever it is that happens to us um it it can be an
opportunity it can give you momentum and so I'm I'm allowing myself today to grieve and then tomorrow I'll wake up
and and have momentum is what I I think is going to happen that's a pretty great
Outlook does it get less surprising I mean because I like this is I feel like this has been a little bit of the theme
of your story where when we spoke the first time you know when in talking about the the first time you were
convicted of murder you were like I didn't believe it could happen like do you keep like having faith that people
will get it right or at some point is it a little bit less where you're like I've
watched them get it wrong so many times that I'm not that surprised anymore yeah
I don't think I'll ever be as surprised as that first verdict um but that doesn't mean that
I don't try to believe in the best of of people and um I just know that people are also flawed and have you know not
always the best motivations that are you know deciding what they what they ultimately do um and how they ultimately
decide um and I I always want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and to and to have faith
and if that means that sometimes my heart gets broken I think I'm okay with that because I know that I can survive
that and what what does the guilty verdict mean right now I mean what it means there's no danger of
me going back to prisons so for anyone who's worried that something terrible is going to happen like someone's going to
extradite me back to Italy like that's not going to happen right like they sentenced me to the maximum amount of
time that you can be sentenced for this crime which is three years I already served four years in prison so that's
you know time served I think a lot of people are even surprised that I could serve jail time for this for this um
because slander in the US is considered like a a civil crime that you can be fined for but not imprisoned for in
Italy it is considered a crime against the state and so you can you you can serve prison time includ and as well as
be fined by the grieved party for um for the crime so I was sentenced to the maximum amount of time for this crime
and um I've already surfed that time and more so I'm not going to be extradited um um what could happen is that Patrick
lumba who is the AG grieved party in this instance he could um attempt to come to the United States and sue me for
a a ridiculous quantity of money um as damages um so I don't know if that is what's going to happen um but he would
have to come here yes yeah because all of my um all of my everything that I own is is based here in the United States if
it were in Italy then he could just go after me in Italy um the other thing that it means is that I for the rest of
my life um have a criminal record in Italy for a crime that I didn't commit and I think um I think the thing that
really bothers me the most about this outcome is that it's now set in legal stone um not just that I'm a militi liar
when I'm not but that I was at the scene of the crime when the murder happened to
Meredith When I was not like one of the one of the things that I had hoped for would be an outcome of this of a verdict
that would recognize my innocence in this case would also be a recognition that I was not there when Meredith was
murdered that I did not just like sit around in the kitchen while my friend was getting raped and murdered and I did
nothing to stop it and that I been lying about it all these years like that's that is what is legally set in stone
today is that not only did I falsely accuse an innocent man knowing he was innocent but that I was physically
present at the crime when it happened that's the only way I could know for sure that he was innocent right well and
explain that a little bit because like like really like let us because I didn't really understand it first where this
slander charge even came from cuz I know we did we covered your your case on an episode but really get into the slander
charge yes and and most people don't because it's not the big scary murder charge right like I was I was accused of
a lot of big scary things rape murder falsifying a burglary and carrying a weapon in my purse like all of these
sort of big scary charges that had big scary sentences attached to them and then sort of as a coda was this like
slander charge and everyone sort of always treated it as not very important not really um
Central to everything and really it's the it's Central to everything I would not have been accused of murder and rape
and falsifying a burglary and and all of the other things that I was accused of were I not accused of slander and did it
happen at the same time the accusation of slander as the as the murder charge no so um I was initially charged with
murder after I was interrogated so um I I in the 5 days after we discovered Meredith's body I was in police custody
for 53 hours um not all at a stretch like it was you know in at moments right and I was in and out of the of the quora
the police office answering their questions over and over and over again and finally you know 5 days into this I was
call or actually rafhael my boyfriend was called in and I went with him because I didn't want to be alone I went
with him and I was interrogated for uh overnight um in Italian which I did not I I did not I was not fluent in Italian
I had only been in Italy for five weeks up to that point w um I was screamed at I was lied to I was
slapped and I was gaslit I was told told that I had no alibi that there was physical proof that I was present when
the crime occurred and that I was suffering from Amnesia that I had witnessed the crime that I they did not
accuse me of participating in the crime they told me that I had witnessed the crime and that it was so horrible that
my mind had blocked it out but in order to prove to the police that I was cooperating and that I was not um like
covering for the murderer or hiding who the murderer was I had to remember my repressed
memories and you know we can talk about why Patrick ended up becoming the the yeah the object
so a couple of things um we now know this that like back then they had very few leads about who had committed this
crime but they were thinking that it might have been a black man based on DNA evidence correct well not at this point
CU they didn't have DNA evidence at this point based upon the fact that they found what they thought were African
people's hair at the crime scene and based upon the fact that the boys who live downstairs from us talked about a
person who went by the name the baron who live who had visited the house there were there they were asking about all
the different men who had frequented the house house and they were assuming that
somebody who had frequented the house was the was the perpetrator because they had initially thought that the Breakin
was staged they immediately decided that the break-in was staged it was not real
and that therefore somebody with access to the house had committed this crime okay and was and somebody was covering
it up so they um they they found a when they were interrogating me they found a text
message that my boss Patrick lumba had um that I had sent to Patrick lumba the night that Meredith was murdered he had
also sent me a text message but I had since deleted it because to save data on my phone um he had 2007 yes an noia um
he had sent me a text message the night that Meredith was murdered saying that I
didn't have to come in to work and I had responded to him saying meaning great see you later have a good night
now I had mistranslated see you later the way that you say see you later in Italian is CH not
chardi which is more specific the police became convinced upon seeing this text message that I had
not stayed at Rafael's apartment as I had consistantly claimed for days on end but that I had in fact made an
appointment with my boss Patrick the Mumba the night of the murder and that I had left Raphael's apartment and so they
were now they now decided that I had literally left Rafael's house to meet up with Patrick and that I had witnessed
something presumably by done by Patrick um that happened to Meredith and that I was covering it up so they put me
through a incredibly abusive and what came to be Rec recognized as illegal interrogation where I was not just
denied an attorney and denied a translator who was not who was um there there was a eventually a translator who
came in but she was not neutral she called me a liar and she suggested to me that I had trauma induced
Amnesia and they drilled into this theory that I witnessed Patrick kill Meredith and it didn't matter how many
times I told them that that wasn't true they refused to believe me and this went on and on and on until I
started to doubt my own sanity and I started to believe them that this could be true and So eventually I did what
they suggested which is imagine what I possibly could have forgotten which is this scenario that
Patrick raped and murdered Meredith and then I signed statements to that effect and you know what those statements were
you know implicate implicated Patrick in this crime I said I'm imagining I'm imagining he was there and I'm imagining
hearing Meredith scream like this is these are all things that are very very implicating of Patrick lumba and I
understand why they they then went on to um to to uh accuse me of falsely accusing an innocent
person even though I was denied you know all of my rights the problem is that they didn't you know they didn't record
that interrogation they didn't didn't do that do Me My Rights but also I recanted
within several hours before I even left the police station I recanted these statements and yet they went on to
arrest Patrick who a day later multiple people came forward saying that he had a
rocksolid alibi that they were with him the entire night at his at his bar he could not possibly have committed the
crime they still kept him in prison for two weeks even after the forensic evidence
came back that had no trace of him at the crime scene all of it implicated Rudy Gade none of it implicated me they
still detained him and they did not release him until they had the actual killer Rudy Gade in custody and they
just sort of did a Switcheroo the same day that that one was in one was out but even so they kept his bar closed for
three months so that he eventually was his business and his reputation never recovered and justifiably he sought
damages from from the state for his wrongful imprisonment but the state then went on to blame me so instead of taking
responsibility for what they had done to Patrick the state blamed me for basically his arrest and everything he
lost and I was found today I was found definitively criminally responsible for what they took from Patrick I think what
so many people myself has a hard time understanding is what did they have to gain
from from holding you responsible as opposed to them other other than just like Saving Face or is that it I mean I
I think Saving Face is a big big aspect of it because um being reputation means a lot in Italy
um so by scapegoating me they have allowed themselves to not take responsibility not just for what they
did to Patrick but also for what they did to rafhael and me because they can say Amanda is responsible for her own
wrongful conviction of murder and all the time that she spent in prison because she
lied and so they do not have to compensate they don't have to compensate Rafael they don't have to compensate me
they don't have to compensate Patrick Beyond you know with the measly amount that they compensated him for his 14
days in prison they did not even remotely compensate him for everything that they took from him
and um you know it's it's why do you think there was such a difference in cuz I mean you said
it like there was you called it a Switcheroo and I think that's the right word because I mean it did happen so fast I
think people forget how early on in the case they were able to make the connection to Rudy Gade because it they
were doesn't feel like it they were talking about you talking about Patrick lumba for years
afterwards why do you think it is that you guys became the center of it and and he in Rudy
seemed to not be talked about like he his his name was not like run through the mud the way that yours was the way
that Patrick's was yeah I mean I think um the I think the why of that is requires me to do a little bit of
speculation but I what I can note I can note some differences between Rudy Gade and me or Rudy G and Patrick for
instance um there was undeniable irrefutable evidence of G's involvement in this crime period like there there
was no question that Rudy Gade committed this crime his DNA was found in and on Meredith's body through in her rifled
purse his fingerprints and Footprints were found in her blood he fled the country immediately after committing the
crime and assumed a false identity he admitted to being there to a friend of his on a Skype call that the police were
listening into there was never a qu once they identified his DNA at the crime scene there was never a question that he
did it there was a question of whether I did it or whether Patrick did it because
when they got back that DNA none of it belonged to either of us there was never any DNA of mine found in the room where
Meredith was murdered there was DNA of mine found in the adjacent bathroom in the adjacent hallway in the house that I
lived in yeah but there was never any evidence of me found at the crime scene and yet I was arrested and imprisoned
and I had confessed so this is like where this particular crime crime that I was
accused of becomes really the central thing I it's a like I said it's amazing how many people feel like it was just
this little tack on added non you know non-important thing it was the central thing they believed that an innocent
person would not falsely accuse another innocent person and therefore I had to be guilty of something and they would
not admit that they had simply coerced a innocent young woman by scaring the living [ __ ] out of her and lying to her
that that she was actually innocent and so in lie of admitting that they had made a mistake they had did
more than just deny me my human rights they had tortured me in lie of admitting that they had to make a case to make
sense of the fact that they had arrested me they were able to let Patrick go because you know they could say Amanda
accused him and we're not at fault but they had they could they there was no excuse for why they had arrested me
unless they had tortured me and so I had to be guilty of something and they spent
the next these past 18 years trying to find me guilty of something and this was the very very last thing that they could
find me guilty of and so who actually brought the charges against you that's a great question so in Italy
um like I said colia slander is considered a crime against the state so it's a it's a criminal charge and then
the the damaged party Patrick in this case can then sort of tack on and Sue uh alongside the prosecution during
the criminal proceedings so his sort of Civil Trial took place at the same time as my criminal trial because it was a it
was considered a crime that he was seeking damages for So Not only was the state seeking to have me convicted and
sentenced to prison time for this crime but he was also hoping to have me convicted and to pursue damages against
um against me and that all happened at the same time so it was the state who first AC accused me and charged me with
criminal slander but even Patrick holds you responsible like he he hasn't does he acknowledge that this is
a coerced false confession does he like not no really no his his attorney um Carlo pachelli was the one who called me
luciferina in court female Lucifer and as far as I know um today he said that he is happy with the outcome
and that this this conviction will follow me for the rest of my life and I really don't know um what to say
about that because what really bothers me is that Patrick was my friend before all of this
right like the only reason he ever got brought into this was because he texted me the night of the murder because we
had the only reason Raphael got dragged into this whole thing was because he was
my boyfriend and my alibi like that's that's the only reason and he was my friend and the fact that he I don't know
I I wonder if just so many people have been whispering in his ear for so many years about how I'm a horrible person
and I committed this crime and and and I you know I think there's also like a financial aspect to it he he was
not satisfied with how he was compensated by the Italian State and there's nothing more that he can get and
so he's pursuing those damages against me which I as far as I know are up there in like a 100,000 Euro or more like
I I know that said he would have to come here to get it essentially I mean I know
that he has the right to feel damaged and to pursue damages the problem is that I was not the one who had him
arrested I was not the one who kept him in custody when he had an alibi I was not the one who kept his bar closed even
though he had nothing to do with the crime like I am not responsible for any of those choices and so I I'm not
responsible for paying those damages yeah and and I'm just so sad that it seems like at no point on this whole
journey did he ever think maybe just maybe Amanda really didn't want to do it and and when she wrote wrote her
recantation she was trying to fix things and I think this is a like I would love
to talk about the recantation because today today I was found guilty not based upon the statements that I signed that
very explicitly implicated Patrick and the crime those were ruled by the European Court of human rights as not
admissible as evidence in the CA in the case of slander against me Italy deter like after the European Court ruled in
my fa saying that my human rights have been violated and I never should have been convicted of of Colonia of slander
I brought the case back to Italy to have my have the conviction overturned and Italy did overturn the conviction and
sent it back for retrial and limited the evidence to a single document a handwritten note that I wrote after I
had been coerced into making those statements while I was still in police custody and while I still did not have
access to an attorney but nevertheless that I wrote with my own hand MH recanting what
had just happened during my interrogation so wait so it's not based on the confession it's based on the
recantation yes yes this is what is so Bonkers about this case is that they decided to
cherry-pick phrases from my recantation to claim that I was AC I was accusing Patrick of the crime right so
like there are statements in that recantation which is like where and again like this is me coming out of a
fog of like psychological manipulation and confusion where I'm going who is the real murderer and I cannot be used as
condemning testimony like I I basically woke up from a living Nightmare and realized that they were going to sit me
on the stand and have me point the finger at my friend Patrick the Mumba as the murderer and I could not do that and
so I wrote down this statement saying I am scared I'm confused I know I said all
these things but I don't like they feel like a dream I'm I don't I doesn't feel real I cannot be used as testimony
against Patrick but then they cite things from this recantation where I said I stand by the statements I made
last night that Patrick could have been the murderer I wrote that because they had spent the entire night yelling at me
and calling me a liar and I was trying to say I I wasn't lying when I said I thought he could have been the murderer
but I don't know like I just don't know and they used that phrase to say that I was accusing Patrick of murder and it to
be and to be clear that wasn't enough to find me guilty in this case they also had to prove that I had to know that he
was guilty or so that he was innocent and that I was falsely accusing him I had to know that he was innocent and how
could I know unless I I had to know by being physically present at the crime scene so that's what you're saying when
you're saying this is like the Crux of it yes it's that in order to know it puts you there and putting you there is
basically them saying like okay whatever happened with the murder conviction doesn't matter that you were declared
innocent we still put you there there you were there and you knew he was innocent and you accused him
anyway and they and you know like the thing that they say to like prove that I was there is that in this recantation I
talk about how I I I like I talk about this these dreamlike things that I had been coerced into to saying I say like I
I dreamed that I heard a scream I and you know and then they say well Amanda said she heard a scream and she could
only know that Meredith was screaming if she was there and therefore she was there I anyone who knows anything about
that crime scene knows that she was probably screaming or like anyone who knows anything about
homicides as if you couldn't [ __ ] guess that someone who's being raped and murdered was screaming and yet they say
that it is irrefutable proof that I was physically there when the crime occurred
and that I knew Patrick was innocent and accused him anyway that that is what just
happened and I'm and it's I just like I can't get over the absurdity of it a little bit because like I think everyone
right like your innocence on the murder charge is all based around this idea that your confession even to start so
forget the recantation your confession to start was coerced and the practices they used were illegal H and how can you
say all of that and then use the something from that as the basis for another guilty verdict like it it feels
I I feel insane I feel you must feel ins I feel really insane right now um and you know it's it's funny because even
Italy like at the very beginning ruled that my interrogation had been illegal like a judge very early on recognized
that I I had been denied the right to an attorney that my interrogation should have been recorded as it was a law there
in Italy at the time and the and the prosecutor said well she was never a suspect she was just a witness and so
her interrogation was not she was not entitled to an attorney and she was not entitled to have her you know her
interrogation recorded the a judge called [ __ ] on that from the very beginning and said that the statements
that were signed there would not be admissible for the murder charge but they allowed it to be
admissible for the slander charge and so a jury was asked to disregard a piece of
evidence in one instance but to keep it in mind for another and does did the jury have like the
context for everything or do you think they were like operating in a silo like I get the system like that's after you
but like why this jury like I don't understand what they're operating like like how they're operating or what
they're thinking I mean I suppose that people are psychologically able to distinguish between what evidence to
keep in mind for one charge while and like to basically hear it in one ear and then not hear it in the other ear
somehow um I don't know like it it never made sense to me um in the same way that it
also never made sense to me that the jury wasn't sequestered like they were they absolutely had full access to all
of the media that was surrounding the case and so there are a lot of questions about whether or not I was given the
right to a fair trial with a you know a a jury that wasn't being influenced by things that it shouldn't be influenced
by um there's a lot about this case that is just heartbreaking in the end um I feel
a little heartbroken right now um but again like that's okay it's okay that I'm hurting right
now and and then and tomorrow I'll get back up again and get back to work and this is like do you feel a
sense of finality now that I mean this really was the last thing hanging over you and it has been hanging over you for
almost two decades like does it feel like it's over you know a lot of people ask me
um why don't I just move on right like why haven't I moved on from this years ago
and I it it kind of makes me laugh a little bit because um the case would never let me move on
the case was never going to be done with me like I know that technically I'm I have no further recourse and I will
forever forever be wrongly convicted of this but like I am forever the girl who is accused of murder whether I like it
or not whether I disappear or not I like just the other day um I went to the emergency room and as I was sitting
there waiting to be examined by this nurse she take a look at my she took a look at my chart and was like oh you're
Amanda noox it's too bad that other one ruined your name for you and I said I am that other
one this idea that I'm to blame I for everything bad that's happened to me that doesn't just go away that's
something that I'm going to live with forever and the thing that like [ __ ] breaks my heart about all of this is
that I really really hoped that um I really hoped that a an acquittal in this case would finally help Meredith's
family real realiz that I wasn't there that I really wasn't that I really had nothing to do with it and that I really
have been on their side this whole time I was really hoping that maybe one day we would be able to like make a
connection and grieve together for everything that we all lost and I don't know if that's ever going to happen
now have they made any kind of statement after the verdict or no you know I haven't been watching the media at all
and then know it literally just happened so I don't even know if if they have gotten their bearings yeah I don't know
um this is an opportunity to like like every bad thing um I do feel uh like this is a really big
opportunity for me to continue to help people to understand how this happens um how how
current practices um are not actually helping police solve crimes like that's the just
the the thing that breaks my heart about all of this is it's like the police when
they lie and when you know and then when they coerce they think that they're doing the right thing the police in my
case genuinely thought I I believe I I believe that they genuinely thought that I had some like I was covering for
someone and I wasn't telling the whole truth and so if they just lied to me enough and if they just bered me enough
and if they just slapped me enough they would get the truth out of me but unfortunately they're using tactics that
are simply coercive to innocent people and that derail Justice in the first place so you
know they are not just breaking the will of innocent people they are loosening our grip on reality when they lie to us
and they and and and they they threaten us and they also you know offer alternative
explanations like you have trauma induced Amnesia you're just a witness like these are all tactics these are all
tactics that police are taught it's bananas that they can do that and that they can lie like I can't it's it's wild
to me it goes It goes against common sense and when you tell somebody like I KN I when I was interrogated I had no
idea that police could lie to you I had no idea which is why I was especially vulnerable I trusted them I was raised
to to I was raised to give difference to them and to do whatever they told me to
do and when they lied to me and said they had proof that I was at my house the night the crime occurred it made me
question my own sanity yeah like it's as simple as that and I'm I I'm not the only one that this
has ever happened to ultimately like I I thought for a long time that I was and I
I grieved and I I hated myself and I blamed myself and then I learned that this is not an isolated incident and
that I am not common it's eerily common it's so eerily common do you think in the last 18 years like do you feel like
you've seen a shift in how people think about coerced conf confessions or do you
think there's still so much educating that needs to be done like I mean again I I'm living in this world so like the
idea of a false confession to me and a coerced confession I'm like yeah of course but do you still feel like you
get push back from people I feel like people find it really counterintuitive there's this resistance
to the idea that they would ever say something that would put themselves at risk or or you know
and and then and then I find myself you know in situations where I'm testifying you know in front of the Washington
legislature about like how damaging deception is in the interrogation room and then a police representative comes
up right after me and says that he can't he cannot protect the public without lying to them and it
just it just we live we live in a more Looney Tune world than we than we realiz and
unless you're like in this world and like aware of it it is happening and it won't happen to you until it does and
that's the thing is like unless you're in in the crime junkie world or in the in the True Crime Universe like you
don't know and so so then you're exactly in the position you were in when all of
a sudden you're pulled in one day and you have no idea this is a thing and you don't know what they are or are not
allowed to do exactly and like the only way you can be prepared is to arm yourself like with knowledge I I I
suppose and and I think that one of the things that is so horrible but that is weaponized against us by the people we
have you know given the power to to take away our freedom and to even take away our lives if they have to they believe
that we are be like they can better serve Us by us being ignorant and us being more vulnerable and it's just
scary it's scary it is really really scary and I think you know a lot of us are fortunate enough where we feel like
we don't have to think about it because we don't have lots of encounters with the police and you know like I don't
want to demonize the police either to be fair like I want to be very fair to the
police and recognize that they have a very important and very difficult job and a lot of the time they they have
sitting across from them in the interrogation room people who have committed crimes and do not want to
admit to it I get it I absolutely get it you know who is Chief number one uh for
that for me is Rudy Gade who raped and murdered my roommate and then blamed me for it like I get it he is a
psychopathic liar and how do you talk to somebody like that and you're tempted as
a police officer especially in the very early stages of the of investigating the
crime to try to get some kind of incriminating statement from someone that you believe is lying to you the
problem is that police officers routinely mistake innocent people for guilty people and guilty people for innocent
people because they're they think that they're these Grand intuitive deception experts and they are no better than any
random person at guessing if someone is telling the truth or telling a lie and so when they employ these very very
effective tactics at breaking the will and the mind of the person sitting across from them they don't really know
if you're guilty or innocent and so they should not be using these tactics and instead they should be employing
different tactics that are very effective at getting information without lies the the Strategic use of of Truth
for instance um to give an example they know that the person sitting across from
them was in the bar at 10:00 last night they bring the guy in they ask him hey where were you um last night and the guy
says I was at home and they say well that's interesting because we have video evidence of you here at this you know
here at this bar suddenly you've caught someone in a Lie by telling them the truth you do not have to lie to them in
order to arrive at that you just have to have some semblance of evidence before you bring someone in for for to accuse
them of a crime the other thing that we should be doing without question there's
no excuse is recording all question like all interviews and interrogations with authority figures like if there's one
thing that I've learned in the past you know 18 years and through all of my experience like we did a whole big false
confession series on my podcast labyrinths like one of the huge takeaways is it is
2025 every single person has a recording device in their pocket there is no excuse for any interaction with an
authority figure be it uh your principal or or you or especially a police officer
for for it not to be recorded just so we know just in case witness suspect anyone because we all also know that
Witnesses are pressured by police to incriminate people and then come back later in these wrongful conviction cases
saying that they were pressured and you know what Witnesses do not have the same
kind of protections that suspects do they are not entitled to the right to an attorney they are not entitled to having
their interrogate their in their interviews recorded they do not have to sign away
their Miranda rights Witnesses have no rights and so they get pressured by police officers to implicate innocent
other people and so like there's no excuse for not having a recording device for every
single interaction so we know what really went H went down behind closed doors and is that something that you
like you're encouraging people to do even on their own absolutely oh my God but like in all of my all of my advocacy
work and all of my writing like it is it's it's just common sense at this point and any resistance to this common
sense is coming from a place of fear on the part of the cops because they don't want to lose a tool that is very
effective at um obtaining convictions and you know like I get I get it that it's hard and we want to do
the right thing and we want to get the bad guy but you have to have the humility to understand that you may be
wrong and there are rules in place to protect people in case you're wrong and you know like I just I it it bugs the
crap out of me that police will call you a witness just so they can circumvent your
rights as a suspect and only later just turn around and say that you're you're like it's Shady it's Shady AF is what it
is so I mean you said that like I mean this has this has been a a defining case for you you for the last 18 years and
not even by choice right like the the world wouldn't let it not define you with this verdict being the end of your
legal Saga what do you hope defines you in the next 18 years um well I I have not been sitting
idle while all this has been happening um I have been very very busy um I'm routinely advocating for the wrongly
convicted I'm on the board of the Innocence Center I'm an innocence Network Ambassador I have you know I
have a new book coming out in March called free where I talk about reintegrating into society and
establishing a relationship with my prosecutor um I I'm producing a limited series for Hulu right now I'm I'm I'm
working on some comedy because you know what what yes so here so again like oh this tragic figure that is like accused
of a horrible crime surely like I can't tell you like people think that I live inside this true Tri True Crime tragedy
box and I am actually at heart a theater geek and and comedy fanatic and I'm working on some comedy and so like wait
like I got to like is this like standup am I going to go watch like Amanda noox on stage doing standup I have done
standup actually and yeah uh yeah I'm working on I'm yeah and I I mean I was just on um this new peacock show called
laid it's a comedy with um with zja mammo like I have this great scene with zoa mammo in um this comedy called uh L
it's actually great because zoa's character is like a true crime fanatic and would very much be a crime junky fan
so you should you should watch I'm going immediately yeah um so I you know I I would love to be defined by the things I
actually do as opposed to the thing that I didn't do and I don't know if that's ever going to be the case but that's not
going to discourage me from continuing to do what I feel like is just the very best I can with what I'm given I'm given
a sense of humor I'm going to make some comedy I'm given a tragedy I'm going to rise above it like the world and life
just gives you a bunch of problems to solve and you either get discouraged or you
get busy and so I've just been busy well in serendipitous or strange timing you were given a guilty verdict but I also
just heard that you were at the same time given an award I mean by a different group of people but can you
talk about that yeah I I'm I'm still sort of processing this fact because I literally like just got the call that I
was awarded um so the the Innocence network is um you know all of the Innocence projects
throughout the United States and the world and um and they have this uh they they have a conference once a year every
year it's actually this this year is going to be in Seattle so if you come you can come to Seattle and I can show
you around I would love that that would be so cool um and they have this award that is for um it's it's created to
honor a freed or Exon ated person who basically just raises awareness about wrongful convictions and policy issues
and and assists other wrongly convicted people and it's a it's a big deal award and there's you know hundreds and
hundreds of us and I just got word that they're giving it to me this year congratulations for all the work
congratulations which is just you know like after having so many bad things happen happened to me I
almost feel kind of comfortable and safe when bad things happen to me because it's
like okay I'm used to that like I'm familiar with that okay I I like something bad is happening to me I don't
have to be like AF afraid that something else bad like it's almost like if some if this bad thing has happened to me
then something else is not going to happen to me and then when good things happen or or even like you know if
something bad is happening to me maybe something good will happen to me like it's that's the like the feeling and
then when good things happen to me I'm almost scared that something bad is going to happen to me it it always so
here I am once again a bad thing happens to me but then a good thing happens to me it's interesting right like it's this
end marker on this thing that did Define you for so long and then maybe this is like the beginning marker of something
that like how your life is going to be defined from here on out yeah that's yeah I you know fingers crossed and you
know what like I'm I'm prepared for the good the bad the ugly the beautiful I'm I I can be nimble I can be agile I will
survive um it really is nice to talk to someone who believes me because not everyone
does and that can make you feel feel really alone and really crazy so it really does matter to me that you're
talking with me today and that you believe me and um and I'm just so excited also I don't know if I'm allowed
to say this to be working on something with you so like I mean like a speaking of wrongful convictions um I hear that
you are going to actually be taking my seat with dilia on an upcoming Q&A episode on
counterclock and then you and I do have this little secret project in the works that's coming very soon so I'm so
excited for it I'm so proud of it I'm so honored that you thought of me for it um
you know it's I'm just thrilled thrilled and um I don't know I don't know if anybody wants
to hear me be more sad and upset about this whole scenario but um I do have some pretty raw reactions upon hearing
the news of the verdict that are on my podcast labyrinths if you want to check it out um where else can they find you
if they want to follow you see what you're doing next ah great question so um you can subscribe to my podcast
labyrinths um I also uh you can find all of my work at Amanda Knox um if you're an Instagram person I'm
amama KNX and if you're on blue sky I'm at amanda.com and one more reminder on the name of your book and when it's
coming out yes yes so free my search for meaning is um is going to come out in March um you can pre-order now or
pre-order it now and Goodreads is currently doing a giveaway so um if you want to get the book early and maybe
write a review you can submit an applic to good reads um and yeah I I think the the most surprising thing people are
going to find in that book is how I've built a relationship with uh my prosecutor the man who signed my arrest
warrant and put me in prison and um and what that weird Journey has been like your whole life weird Journey that that
should have been the title of the book weird Journey just what the [ __ ] is going on is
the sub subtitle well thank you so much I like especially in this moment when things are So Fresh So raw I really
appreciate you sitting down and explaining what this is beyond just like the clickbaity headline so and thank you
for the opportunity to do so because I think a lot of people sort of overlooked this part of it because it felt like so
minor I didn't even is so Central to everything that went wrong and I think is really crucial to really
understanding what the [ __ ] happened with all of it and thank you for taking the time to
like educate all of us you didn't have to and I appreciate it and hopefully I'll see you in Seattle we'll figure it
out that would be so cool I love that perfect thank you Amanda thank you if you want to hear more content like this
we're going to have more interviews we also do our episodes on video make sure you hit the Subscribe button for more
True Crime content from timey [Music] oh [Music]

Ashley Flowers, creator & host of Crime Junkie, sits down with Amanda Knox to discuss her recent slander trial & guilty verdict.

Ashley Flowers is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of audiochuck, an Indiana-based, award-winning, independent media company with 10+ chart-topping podcasts and over 2 billion listener downloads. Best known for her inaugural podcast Crime Junkie, named Apple Podcasts’ #1 show of 2022 and 2023, Flowers also hosts and executive produces The Deck and The Deck Investigates and Crime Junkie AF. In 2022 she authored her first novel, All Good People Here, which became an instant #1 New York Times Bestseller. She is committed to giving back and is the founder of nonprofit Season of Justice, which is dedicated to solving cold cases.

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Brief Summary

Amanda Knox discusses her guilty verdict for slander, reflecting on her wrongful conviction and advocating for criminal justice reform.

Key points

Amanda Knox's Verdict. Amanda Knox shares her feelings after a verdict that marks the end of an 18-year battle for her innocence.
The Impact of Slander Charges. Amanda explains the significance of the slander charges against her and their implications.
The Coercion Behind Confessions. Amanda recounts her abusive interrogation and how it led to false confessions.
The Absurdity of the Case. Amanda reflects on the absurdity of her situation and the manipulation she faced during her interrogation.
A Lifetime of Accusation. Amanda discusses how the case has defined her life and her struggle with being labeled a murderer.
The Importance of Recording Interrogations. Amanda advocates for the recording of all police interrogations to prevent wrongful convictions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I always want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and to have faith.

Amanda discusses her belief in people's goodness despite her experiences.

3:06WatchJan 24, 2025

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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