Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340 | Forensic Files

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[Music] it took almost two years to find the remains of Heather Church in the crime
scene where the remains were found offered no clues as to who the perpetrator of this abduction and murder
could be The Daily Sentinel ran an article with the headline girls remains found after
two-year search this from the Associated Press the article labeled Timothy belbeck the man
who found her skull and reported his findings as a transient camper and states the death was ruled a
homicide and the coroner's report indicates Heather suffered blunt force trauma to the Head
this article has some interesting pieces of information in here as well it goes on to say Heather was last seen
wearing white cotton pajamas and no shoes she had laid out an outfit for school and her bedding was rumpled as if she
was asleep until something had awakened her enter Lou Smith who is Lou Smith Captain he's a
detective that likes to climb in and out of Windows he's probably best known for
his involvement in the JonBenet Ramsey case I think he's on the smaller side too
captain that might make give him the the extra super ability of climbing in and out of Windows you think so I I don't
think he looks small to me but I didn't either but I read some story where he decided when he first became a police
officer he needed to bulk up because he was like I want to say he was like five six to
maybe five seven but like 150 pounds when he first started on the force he got into some situation where he said
a a large woman was attempting to drag him across the street and she was having some success
and that's when he decided I gotta start going to the gym I gotta beef up if I'm
going to be yeah I think that was my mother [Laughter] well you know I know a term super cop loose Smith is
certainly a super cop in his career he worked on more than 200 murder cases in which a suspect had been arrested and
tried for their crimes he was a detective with the Colorado Springs Police Department he joined the force
way back in 1966 and worked his way all the way up to the rank of detective Lou helped to get the arrest and conviction
of spree killer Freddie Glenn in his accomplice Michael Corbett Glenn was found guilty of murdering three people
in 1975. yeah one of them being uh Karen grammar that's correct this included the
killing of Karen grammar younger sister of actor Kelsey Grammer he was also involved in the arrest and
conviction of Michael Corbett this was Freddie Glenn's accomplice so together we have Glenn who was found
guilty of murdering three people 1975 Glenn and Corbett together were responsible for a total of five deaths
in and around Colorado Springs back in 1975. so now I would like to introduce you to
another man John Anderson now I'm not talking about money in the bank and seminal wind John Anderson no
I'm talking about the John Anderson who I will deem to be another Super cop Anderson was sworn in in January of 1995
as El Paso County's new sheriff and with him came Lou Smith Anderson wanted two things one for Lou
Smith to take over as Captain of detectives in El Paso County and two to solve Heather Church's case which by
this time 1995 was looking like it would never be solved in the over three years of the case law
enforcement really only developed per the evidence in interviews a few suspects some of the members of Heather's church
at one point turned on one another 's Sunday school teacher and a family friend were questioned extensively
as were Heather's parents everyone police in the FBI looked at either had an iron-clad alibi passed a polygraph
test or both again this included Heather's parents Diane and Mike definitely a lot of Suspicion towards
the parents I think when you have a case like this where you have no leads no clues
that's kind of where the direction that it just naturally takes on yeah now in 1995 Lou Smith took over as Captain of
detectives and he took over the Heather Church investigation Lou is pretty old school and he said
that regardless of what other people thought that they knew about the case Mike and Diane Church were not suspects
he said he knew very early on in his investigation that they together nor separate were involved in any way
after meeting them both and speaking with them separately Smith believed they were truly victims and far too good of
people to do something so terrible it's not clear whether or not they took polygraph tests
in the past or not right the information I have that came from the sheriff's department states that they did okay
now Smit also offered up after speaking with the parents he offered up some of his expert
opinions on the case to the parents of Heather he told them he would catch the man that
killed her he said he believed the perpetrator was an intelligent male and that his name was already in the case
File he also believed unlike the FBI that the motive behind why the perp entered the
church home may not have been sexual Smith wanted to start his investigation at the very beginning in reviewing the
case he noted the recovery of fingerprints from the crime scene Captain Schmidt recognized that although
the prince had been forwarded to both the FBI and the CBI he was aware that there were in fact 92 separate automated
fingerprint identification systems or aphis for short so here we are once more captain at the Leighton fingerprints
left on the master bedroom window screen from inside Heather Church's house yeah
it seems like that's the biggest piece of evidence we have forensics expert Thomas Carney was the
man who educated Smith on the trouble with the fingerprint systems in fact Carney he came from Miami he worked in
law enforcement in Miami he was the first person to compile a list of the aphis systems in the United States
Canada and Mexico in Short North America as said this number as of 1995 was 92 of these
systems Kearney put together 92 sets of black and white photographs of the prints that
they found on the window screen and this was to be mailed off to all 92 automated finger printing identification
systems in March of 1995 they got the call they were waiting on for years so sound the trumpets captain
we're still working on the trumpets near the garage that was good taking lessons
that was good but I mean we we need some actual real trumpets uh they got a match in fact they got two
matches one in California and one in Louisiana so 92 of these different places they send off these photographs
two of them call back and say hey we got a match for you on those fingerprints that you sent us the fingerprints were
matched to 42 year old Phelan Robert Charles Brown who lived at 16660 eastonville Road and he was one of the
church's nearest Neighbors he lived in a double wide about a half a mile from the Church's home where he
lived with his wife Brown worked a tree farm located on his property where he lived
Brown was arrested for a burglary and vehicle theft in Louisiana where he served 10 months
he was also charged with something in California and I believe he may have served a little bit of time there but
his record he has a record but it's for nothing nearly as heinous as abduction or murder
in 1987 his parole was transferred from Louisiana to the state of Colorado the fingerprints found inside the crime
scene at the church's house were submitted and resubmitted over the years to the Colorado Bureau of
Investigation but for whatever reason when Brown when his parole was transferred his
prints were never entered into the CBI system so even though they're checking them
there's nothing there to match them to four days after they got the match they arrested Brown outside of a store in
town and brought him to the station for questioning the first thing that they wanted to know
of course did Brown know the churches he said no in fact he said he was a loner and he and his wife did not
socialize much but we know their neighbors yeah but he lives a half a mile away right
so again it's when we talk about these different cases it's important to always kind of keep in mind the lay of the land
they own that big property he owned a decent sized property as well he was what I believe is reported to be their
nearest neighbor but that's half a mile away they really wanted to know had he ever
been to the church's house and this would be for any reason at all right no he said in fact the closest to their
home that he had ever been was when he assisted a delivery truck that broke down on the side of the road near the
church's long driveway out to the road that is exactly what they wanted to hear got him got him Captain right got him
yeah because if if this guy was known if Robert Brown was known to do like handiwork in the area
and they go hey were you ever in their house oh yeah well I was I wasn't friends with them but I I did some
painting for them wow where did you do the painting oh master bedroom the other bit you know I mean right like then it
put it gives you it gives a reason why the fingerprint should be there or could be there
yeah and really so key to this case as you just stated he has given no reason at all for his
fingerprints to be there let alone be inside of the home well mind you this is a dumbass where where the prints were
found were found technically inside the home yeah because of the here's the thing is they ask you about your
neighbors you you know that this girl was abducted right so if you just start lying and saying well yeah you know I
went over there a couple times and I'm sure they asked the family and and I'm sure they didn't but
I don't know that'd be covering your ass a little bit let's get into that a bit because this part of the story is quite
interesting I think really when they arrested him at this store that was not their intention
they actually wanted to set up um they wanted to catch him meaning they wanted to get him in a conversation
asking him questions about the church homicide and and catch him that way but catch him
off guard meaning that that he doesn't know that they are looking specifically at him right so once they get the match
on the fingerprints their idea is okay let's send a handful of officers and detectives out into the area and let's
knock on everybody's door again and let's ask these sets of questions that way he thinks it's all this is just all
routine you know we're we're doing a return routine questioning of everybody in the
area we're not specifically looking at you right this is where they were hoping that he would say I've never been to
their house and the problem was when they sent all the officers out into the area he was
already under surveillance at that point he left to go shopping and at some point they got nervous the
law enforcement got nervous and said we have to arrest this guy they were really
worried that when they Place him in cuffs and say look you're being arrested for the murder of Heather Dawn church
right that as you said he's a dumbass that he would wise up and go oh yeah I I was there to do yard work or whatever
yeah I babysit him yeah because even even if the churches said no that's not the truth now he said she said you yeah
you have his word against theirs yeah now the reason why police believe that he wasn't smart enough to come up with
something like that yeah no actually they think that that he was so convinced that he never
left his fingerprints there meaning they believed that he was wearing gloves during the abduction and he may have
taken them off very briefly to replace the the screen right and very likely he's being questioned about this three
years later he remembers that he wore gloves to the crime scene but doesn't remember taking them off for a very
brief time yeah that makes a lot of sense so he's so surprised by this whole deal of him leaving fingerprints there
that he tells them straight up he's he's without a lawyer at this point in the questioning and he's telling them
there's no way possible that those are my fingerprints he said I don't doubt that you found fingerprints there I
doubt that they're mine and they say well we have your fingerprints back from when you were arrested in Louisiana and
we we checked them they got a match in Louisiana we got a match with your old fingerprints in California he goes well
that's well and good but people make mistakes my fingerprints could have been mixed up with somebody else's you know
what you put your testing or pictures he's saying take my fingerprints right now and test them again because I'm
telling you my fingerprints were not there right that's how adamant he was and they did so and they checked it
again right so now you have that in your back pocket as the detectives are questioning uh Robert Charles Brown yeah
and during all of this remember he's he's asking for everything to be tested again take new fingerprints
they're doing all this stuff test it again and while they're doing this they talk him into a polygraph test yeah and
later he's told he failed the test and he's told again it doesn't matter how many times we
fingerprint you and run the test they're still matching the set that we found on
the window screen at the Church's home right the other thing too Captain is during
these interviews while they're being conducted the police were at Brown's home they're searching the place they
already had a search warrant before they arrested him there they found girls clothing and
girls jewelry stuffed into a pillowcase he has no children [Music] this is a bit unexplained what this
stuff was or where it came from what is explained is that none of it belonged to
Heather they also go it's probably trophies of some kind yeah so they found stolen items from another
home that was another residence that was kind of nearby so these could have just been things
that they don't have to be from another murder victim they could be things that he stole from somebody's home
they found this is just straight up bizarre I've never heard of this before but I do know
people steal these types of things I've just never found one in any of the cases
we've covered they found a stolen Bobcat earth mover machine worth eighteen thousand dollars
now Captain you and I both know that is not a small machine that's a large thing to have stolen from
someone apparently I don't know why he stole it he must have used it for some kind of work keep
in mind he had that tree farm he had a big plot of land there's some suspicions as to what he
could have used it for but his his wife was aware that he stole this large machine she said he used it the only
thing that she knew that he used it for was he dug a big hole with it drove the machine into the hole and then attempted
to cover it up attempted to bury it or just cover it up bury the machine uh as said he they found stolen items
from another house or other residences in the area this is uh you know some of the more alarming stuff they found
newspaper clippings a lot of them regarding Heather Church's case he was in fact arrested that day and
charged with murder he would be offered eventually eventually pretty quickly after the arrest he was offered a deal
an offer to his public defender this would be so he could avoid the death penalty
and this likely may have been the best case scenario for the investigator seeing that
at this point when they make this offer all they have as far as evidence goes is
his fingerprints right later on they did get Brown's wife to admit that he was not home the night
Heather vanished so we have a fingerprint and we have no solid Alibi correct now he Brown maintained his innocence
when he spoke with the police but he did ultimately end up pleading guilty to murder this so he could avoid the death
penalty and trade he got life in prison this move was quite interesting the prosecutor
they didn't really think that that brown or his attorney would take the bait take
the plea deal right because again such little evidence they really made a strong push and what
they did was they were vetting this guy they were calling where they knew he was
from this guy had moved around a lot they called his hometown where he lived for a long period of time and realized
that former neighbors of his one of them had gone missing and one of them was murdered oh great both of those
cases unsolved in fact the missing woman on top of on top of Heather Church's case correct yeah and so what their
threat was we'll call it a threat their threat to the the defense attorney was he he should probably hurry up and plead
guilty to this before we find another body right so ultimately that's what took place the
prosecutor did check with Heather's parents first to make sure that they were okay with them making an offer
Heather's mother Diane said if he is willing to plead guilty she is willing to let him sit in prison for the rest of
his life thank you all right welcome back cheers everybody cheers crispy Colonel
oh cheers to you through the glass the crispiest they've separated us I feel like I'm in solitary confinement well
that's where you belong oh I I can't see you all I do is hear voices so while Robert Brown never confessed to the
detectives and never confessed in court it's believed that he confessed to Susan
Lawrence this was his placement counselor and what he told her she passed along to authorities so let's go
through this what what she told the authorities he said to her she said that he Brown enjoyed roaming
his neighborhood at night looking for houses to burglarize sometimes he would take things sometimes
he wouldn't when he went to the church's residence there were two lights on inside the
house and no cars in the driveway and he did not think that anyone was home he was surprised by Heather Church
inside the house and killing her he says was unintentional Brown said that he did Kill Heather
inside the home he placed one hand over her mouth and one hand on her neck he demonstrated this to Miss Lawrence
when he's telling her this story and said he recalled doing this for only a couple of seconds he thought but now
believes it must have been for a longer period of time he assumed that he had strangled her
because she was dead when it was over now Mrs Lawrence asked Brown if it was possible that he had broke her neck
and to which he replied that that was a possibility yeah because I mean Brown's a pretty big guy he's like six three
roughly yeah yeah Robert Brown said he placed Heather Church's body in the back of his pickup
truck and drove to the mountains where he disposed of the body he denied having any sexual contact with Heather Church
all right so bamboom Bang case closed get my coat time to tip my hat and ride nope you're you're locked up you're
right captain that is not it because there's much more to the story in 1996 Robert Charles Brown who is supposed to
be rotting away in his cell in Colorado Street State Corrections he receives a letter this is an
anonymous letter the letter says you got screwed and here's why there was something wrong with Colorado
state law and from July 9th to September 20th of 1999. [ __ ] I was good up to September 20th
of 1991 Colorado was without a death penalty this is truly bizarre we've never come
across anything like this in any of our cases so what that means is when the night
when she was abducted when Heather was removed from the home technically the state of Colorado for
that very brief time period less than 90 days didn't have the death penalt does not
have the death penalty so the offer then of hey plead guilty and we take the death penalty off the table it was never
on the table because it didn't exist during the the time frame in which she disappeared [ __ ] offer
yeah so this gets pointed out to him and now we have the appeals process but who
whoever's pointed it out to this scumbag yeah why is this is also a scumbag Let It Be we got screwed well good right
unless it was one of those things where um the guy was trying to rub it in his face you know like you're so stupid he
didn't know this oh yeah I mean but you know what you got screwed because the case took so many years to apprehend
somebody right I don't think that the prosecutors did anything malicious here I don't think they were aware either no
like you said it was a small window like a 90-day window yeah it's just one of these weird inconsistencies one of these
weird little glitches that was that was going on they're unaware of it so any anyway now we have
the appeals process he's got a pretty damn good appeal when you think about it hey I pled guilty to something that only
because the death penalty was being thrown in my face in the face in the face well
the current prosecutor the the one that now has to face these Appeals comes up with a great plan
he says to the court system look she was abducted on the 17th this whole thing with with the no death penalty
expired on the 20th that's just a couple days later he's also saying it took us all this
time to solve the case she was found over 20 miles away from her home where she was abducted
we the prosecutor's office believe that the crime was sexual nature that the motive was sexual nature
and based off of all of that evidence in theory and thought it is our argument that we cannot say
for certain that her murder occurred on the 17th that it's very likely he may have kept her for a couple of days and
the murder occurred on the 20th or even later to this the appeals Courts at least two
of them that I could find they agreed with that they said look you can't prove the date of when she was
killed and if you do you know he's in all kinds of trouble and all kinds of mess here because now if you go back to
um he proves what day she was killed then he proves that he killed her and he boom he still ends up with life in
prison right so I I think that's just truly fascinating and the prosecutor later came out said
look I thought my argument was a good one but a weak one it was intelligent argument but it was a very weak one he
thought that they would lose turns out that they win this thing got all the way up to I believe the Colorado
Supreme Court state supreme court to which I think they tossed it out and said we don't even want to look at this
thing truly when you have a child killer nobody wants this guy to get out on some kind
of technicality well yeah and on top of that you think he's possibly linked to other crimes
that's correct and that's still not the end of our story Captain because on March 30th 2000
Robert Brown sent an unsolicited letter to the Fourth Judicial District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs
the letter was addressed to whom it may concern inside this letter and I don't have the
full letter itself I don't know if the full letter has ever been released to the public
but there is within this letter a statement from Brown this says this is very cryptic
seven sacred virgins entombed side by side those less worthy are scattered wide the letter taunted investigators
claiming the score is you won the other team 48. the obvious reference here being that
he was arrested tried and convicted of the murder of Heather Dawn church right they scored
one the other team must be him Robert Brown he's got a score of 48. so obviously
he's implying that he's involved in other crimes possibly other murders another statement included in this
letter says if you were to drive to the end zone in a white Trans Am the score could be 9 to 48. that would complete
your home court sphere oh this guy's a real dumbass Brown closed the letter by demanding that he
not be contacted now there was a second letter that was sent so he sent a letter and then then he
said don't contact me and here's another letter they sent another letter yeah the second letter from my
understanding I believe even less of that letter has been uh uh reported over the years maybe maybe
even some of the statements I just read could have been from the second letter itself it's all very cryptic his
writings and what has been released is it's not clear if it's if some of the letters are just short
and they were released in their entirety and then other letters were longer and only bits and pieces were actually
released but what we do know with the second letter there that one included a map
and we would later learn that the map was he took a piece of paper put it over over a map like in an atlas and
made the outlines of several different states and so he outlined the state of Washington California Colorado New
Mexico Oklahoma Texas Arkansas Mississippi and Louisiana and inside each one of those states that
he outlined he put a number this number totaling up to 48. so almost indicating that
with inside this state for instance state of Washington he wrote the number one I've killed one person
in the state of Colorado he put the number nine in Louisiana the number being the
highest of all the numbers was 17. this Captain I believe probably would have went nowhere
because he's writing to the District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs they don't seem to have any interest in
corresponding with inmate Robert Brown turns out that about two years later A Man Named
Charlie Hess is going to send a letter to Robert Brown he doesn't know that Robert Brown has in fact sent these
letters already to the District Attorney's office Charlie Hess is a former CIA agent
and he was working with a guy and I say working they were kind of doing this as as a hobby
but Charlie hassle along with some other individuals were working with Lou Smith
all these guys were pretty much retired by this time what they would do is they would get together about once a week
they would hang out they would eat pastries drink coffee smoke cigarettes and they would talk about old cases
and really what they were focusing on was they were wanting to take on some cold cases all of these individuals were
involved in law enforcement or the CIA at some time this would be a good group of people to volunteer to take on a Cold
Case now during some of their discussions it comes up that one of the individuals
wants to know hey Lou or anybody here in our group has anybody worked in putting away a murderer that they
believe was truly a very dangerous person that was was a serial killer was one of these people that had
numbers you know multiple murders that they had committed Lou Smith says to his group
I always felt Robert Charles Brown was a serial killer and so much so that when we were working to put him away we were
aware that way back in Louisiana a neighbor of his one went missing and another neighbor was found dead was
found murdered so there's already a bit of a connection I I've seen a lot of people cover this
portion of the story and a lot of people have done a good job in doing so but what is usually lost in
this Heather Church's case is usually kind of a a by the way or a way to kick start the whole story of Robert Brown
and his Communications with these Cold Case volunteer investigators right and often it's reported that Lou Smith just
had some kind of sixth sense that he was uh it was a gut feeling that he had been
working the these types of cases so long that he just had a sixth sense that Robert Brown was a serial killer he had
he had a sense that Robert Brown was a serial killer because they were aware of a missing former neighbor of his and a
murdered former neighbor of his doesn't take much to you know you don't have to have a sixth sense to come up with that
Heather Dawn church was a neighbor of his as well so you see a similar type of Mo
it's really a bit of a shame that when we talk about these cases from Louisiana I find it strange that within just a
handful of months these two cases take place we have a murder somebody goes missing both of these individuals
were neighbors of his but they were neighbors within the same apartment complex as him
and further Robert Brown worked as the maintenance man for this apartment complex his brother I believe was the
owner or the landlord of these apartments it's really strange to me that they weren't able to make any type of
connection I think with the missing woman with her case that the husband was Under Suspicion and that would make an
obvious reason why you wouldn't connect them but with with the missing woman she
apparently had the doors had the locks on her doors changed the day before by the maintenance man of the apartment
complex who in fact was Robert Brown it seems like there would have been a connection to some of these individuals
yeah and even though Robert Brown claimed that he didn't want to be contacted there would be a bunch of
corresponding emails for years yeah well letters right and so it's almost like Charlie has kind of
befriended Robert Charles Brown and got him to open up we have a man who says he
doesn't want to talk it is in Charlie's Arsenal though that he is aware that look this is the guy that opened up the
dialogue he started the dialogue on some psychological level he does want to talk
and so I'm going to work that angle and see what I can get from him it's interesting that you have a guy a serial
killer locked up and I will I will say serial killer because I believe him to be just that but we have someone like
we've seen so many times before now he's coming out playing this game of I know more than you know and here's all the
other bad things that I've done but oh I'm not going to tell you all the bad things that I've done I'm going to hint
and nudge and wink you through it and you gotta figure it out on your own it's all really truly
I mean it's a lot of it I feel is [ __ ] and I don't really want to waste anybody's time here by going
through all of the correspondence because as you said this goes on for quite some time and really all Charles
Hess wants to do is he wants to sit down and speak with Robert Brown face to face
that's what Charlie Hess did in the CIA back in the day of the Vietnam War he was somebody that interviewed people
during wartime he gave lie detector tests during wartime he is extremely good at communicating with people
getting people to open up getting people to tell the story tell the truth and figuring out what are the truths and
what are the lies with inside their story he eventually threw befriending or at least letting Robert Charles Brown
believe that the two are friends got brown to allow him to speak with him face to face
and this all it did was open up correspondence because Brown was giving little hints and winks
and nudges saying I've killed roughly like you said Captain I've killed 48 people 47 of them you don't know about
and some of their talks and correspondence he had the number as high as 51. but he was really giving them nothing to
go off of he's like look I um they keep telling him you got to tell us more if you want us to clear any of
these cases we can't do anything with this and if you don't give us more information we don't think you're
serious we think that either you're making this [ __ ] up or you've lost it and you believe it to be true and it's
not true at all eventually they get him to talk and give more details on some of these cases
where he will go you know maybe give a nickname of an individual maybe give a spot where he uh dumped the body so on
and so forth and this leads them to throughout months and years of working on this this leads them to starting to
complete some of the story now mind you all of the states that he listed that he
drew on that map he did live in those States and they could find evidence that he in fact lived in those States at one
point and the three states that he listed as having the highest number of kills interestingly enough are the three
states where he spent the most time so there was some stuff there was some meat on the bone in the beginning for these
investigators to believe that there could be some truth to Robert Brown's story now we know with these Psychopaths and
these narcissists none of this would come without him getting something in return for offering up this information
he was unhappy with the way that he was being treated he did not like where he was being housed and he also didn't feel
that he was receiving proper medical treatment basically he wanted to transfer and again Charlie Hess pushed him and
said we can't help you unless you help us eventually through a lot of back and forth and through a lot of working and a
lot of hard work what we end up getting is we get another solved case because in
July of 2006 Brown pled guilty to the murder of Rocio Sperry this he was sentenced to life without
the possibility of parole for 40 years now unfortunately this did not come without brown getting something in
return Brown was then transferred to the state of Minnesota to serve out his time there
what's very weird here captain is I found an interview with Heather Church's father Mike
and I believe it was from 2015 or 16. where he had a complaint and a very valid complaint
he's saying because of Brown's manipulation of the system because he's working these deals to get
moved and and plead guilty to an unsolved case that he did not know where the killer of
his daughter was being housed and he felt that that was unfair and I agree 100 percent
because at some point Brown was moved and it wasn't public knowledge to know where he was located
I found a letter that is believed I have plenty of reason to believe that it was
written by Robert Brown where he states that at that time he was housed in Florida in the state of Florida
and there he is complaining that they reneged on the plea agreement that he was supposed to be in Minnesota
and after being in Minnesota for four years they transferred him to Florida where he does not want to be and I hope
he stays where he does not want to be welcome to Florida the thing captain that we have here and
I do want to say I am very um the thing that I want to say here Captain is that I think that is great
the work that Charlie has blue Smit and all of their little Cold Case volunteer work that they did is fantastic yeah I
don't want to say it's all [ __ ] and it's all for naught because they did get a conviction in the Rocio Sperry case
and that was so important not just to get another case off the books not just to get some answers but for so many
years her husband was thought to be the one that was guilty of her disappearance
and we now know that that's not true and that guy was a victim himself not just from being the husband of a of murder
victim but he was a victim of being thought of as being guilty of her disappearance and her murder for so many
years so I'm very glad and very happy that they got that one off the books I do think that a lot of Brown's
communication and a lot of what he hints at we talk about a number of 48 possible
victims I think that that's total bogus bogus I think it's a bogus number that he came up with we're talking about he's
saying this in the early 2000s and at the time I believe a number of 48 would put him at the highest number for
a serial killer that's who he wants to be he's never been anybody important he wants to be somebody important and he
does not mind the attention why because he is so guilty of Heather Dawn Church's
murder and now he's locked up in a place he does not want to be for life and he has nothing to do he is to put it quite
frankly he is Bored everything that he did when he was on the outside a lot of it being illegal a lot of of it being
perverted deviant Behavior he cannot do now and so he's come up with some kind of game to pass the time he's come up
with a number that makes him important when he is not I also think that part of this game is
he feels screwed by the prosecutor by the District Attorney's Office of Colorado
that because he as you said was dumb enough to one not give a good reason why he would have been at the church's house
two didn't lawyer up three agreed to the polygraph test in which he failed and then four
pleads guilty so he can avoid the death penalty yet there was no death penalty yeah so welcome to Florida dumbass I
think he feels tricked because he was he was an idiot he was stupid he was a [ __ ] he feels tricked
and now his way of retaliating is to send them on this wild goose chase keep in mind who did he direct his letter to
he didn't send it to the media he didn't send it to the El Paso County Sheriff's
Office he sent it to the district attorney's office the same district attorney's office that was able to put
him in prison for life for the death for the murder of Heather Dawn Church now I do believe with inside this 48
this magical number of 48 Captain I do believe that there are some other victims in there of note of of
of note of ones that he actually provided some detailed information this would be the uh murder of Catherine
Hayes from Louisiana Wanda Hudson and Faye self also of Louisiana Melody bush and Nadia Mendoza both from Texas
and then Lisa Lowe who was killed in Arkansas so while I do feel that a lot of his stuff
is probably [ __ ] I would love to see some further movement on some of these other cases where there was some
detailed information provided by Robert Brown unfortunately Lou Smith has passed away
he passed away he had cancer and by the time the cancer was founded it spread to
his entire body yeah but I agree a lot of good work here and Robert Charles Brown
deserves any bad thing that's coming his way the other thing about his if you want to try to call them
confessions regarding these murders even the ones where he offers detailed information what you will see is
him minimizing his involvement him minimizing his role in the murder of these individuals I personally believe
that most of his murders if not all of them were sexual in nature they they seem to
be that that was the motive the driving force for his actions I don't know about when he set out to
enter the home to Heather Dawn Church's house but what I will say here regarding his
[ __ ] confession that he offered up to his placement counselor what do you see there straight up
minimizes his involvement in the whole situation it makes it it's all so confusing to him
he killed her he didn't even really know why he killed her he didn't he didn't intend to kill her
and I think that is absolute BS I think that there's a lot of evidence that will
show that there was no reason for him to remove her from that house his confession somewhat makes it sound like
she surprised him and he reacted and before he could realize what was going on she was dead
there's evidence to suggest that she may have been sleeping when he came upon her
that night right and if he was afraid or got scared all of a sudden because he entered a home that he thought was empty
and he reacted and that was the result you just can't believe that because if she was sleeping he had the opportunity
to be afraid and then leave the home after he was in the home and when he left there the only thing that was
missing from that home was that little girl [Music] a lot of really good sources for this case here Captain one
of the better ones is the newspaper The Gazette they covered this case pretty extensively over the years and did a
very good job one of the best sources is this week's recommended reading it's a book titled the devil's right-hand man
the true story of serial killer Robert Charles Brown you can write that title down now so you can pick that up and
find out more if you're busy just go to our website later go to our recommended page go to truecrime garage.com we will
have that title there for you so you can make that selection and add that to your
library we want to thank everybody for listening we want to thank everybody for the wonderful five star reviews and we
want to thank you all for telling your friends about True Crime garage until next time be good be kind and don't live
foreign [Music]

Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

September 17th, 1991 Heather Dawn Church vanishes. She was abducted from her home in Black Forest, Colorado. Join as we go year by year through the investigation. Beer of the Week - Killer Cupcake Panda by Flying Monkey Craft Brewery Garage Grade 4 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

The episode details Heather Church's murder, Robert Charles Brown's arrest, and implications of his potential serial killer status.

Key points

The Discovery of Heather Church's Remains. It took almost two years to find the remains of Heather Church, leading to a homicide investigation.
Lou Smith Takes Over the Case. Detective Lou Smith, known for his old-school methods, believes in the innocence of Heather's parents.
Fingerprints Lead to Arrest. Fingerprints found at the crime scene match Phelan Robert Charles Brown, leading to his arrest.
Bizarre Evidence Found. Police discover girls' clothing and jewelry at Brown's home, raising suspicions about his past.
Plea Deal Offered to Brown. Faced with mounting evidence, Brown pleads guilty to avoid the death penalty, receiving life in prison instead.
Brown's Confession. Robert Brown admits to killing Heather Church, claiming it was unintentional.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Normal is weird and that's why this week we are drinking killer cupcake Panda.

Introduction of the beer for the week.

1:14WatchNov 21, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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