FULL EPISODE: Luke Rynderman is Crime Junkie AF | Forensic Files

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[Music] advised crime junk hi everyone and welcome back to the show made by the crime junk Ashley flowers for those who
are crime junkie AF I am so excited because I am back again with another special guest and a special case
especially to me for you guys today the Burger Chef murders is one of the most Infamous and mysterious cold cases here
in Indiana it has remained unsolved for over 40 years and crime junkies specifically might know it because of a
short little series I did very early on in my podcasting days called red ball that only covered Burger Chef and while
I was kind of like reporting is not the right word because M mine was a story more about what does it take to like
relook at a cold case but while I was there reporting for my story I ran into a group who was filming for a
documentary at the same time about Burgers chef and that documentary has just come out I am so excited to be
joined today by one of the co-writers co-directors Luke renderman hi hi Ashley I'm so excited to be here as well this
is amazing I it feels like a lifetime ago and I it's so funny because at the time again you guys were filming
podcasting moves so fast and mine was just like four short episodes but I kep waiting and I kep W and I was
like am iing it up I know there was a film crew there but there's a lot of reasons that your guys film took a long
time you guys have some incredible information so I don't want to waste another minute yeah let's jump in yeah
so look before we jump in for people who are not familiar with the Burger Chef murders or what in your documentary your
documentary is called the speedway murders can you give them the rundown what is this story that you told yeah um
the speedway murders is about um The Disappearance and subsequent murder of four employees at the Burger Chef
Restaurant in 1978 where um the four employees Ruth Shelton Jane fre Mark flemens and Danny
Davis were all taken out of the back door at closing time um and then found uh about 48 hours later in Johnson
County which was a forested area about 40 minutes away all murdered um in sort of different ways and um yeah our film
um covers the the 2 hours or whatever that you know the mystery of what happened in that time it was is still a
mystery all these years later and there's been so much talk and so many different theories and you cover a lot
of them in the documentary and it wasn't just you so you have a partner in all this yes so yeah my partner Adam camon
who is more of the investigative side let's say and I'm you know bit more kind of I guess storytelling slash visual
sort of my background is primarily in production design so yeah so we sort of but I am the True Crime junkie I must
say that so we worked very well together and yeah and and he couldn't make it cuz
he is in Australia you were happened to be here for a little bit you you stayed a little longer just to do this so thank
you yeah and you are obviously our listeners can hear from Australia as well yes very begs the question how on
Earth it was the question I had the first time I I saw you guys how on Earth do two guys from Australia end up at
this case in a small town in Indiana from 19 19 78 I initially learned about it um I think it was the Unsolved
Mysteries website or a very old episode of Unsolved Mysteries really yeah and I was in China at the time yeah like
classic um Robert say it a Robert Stack episode Robert Stack I was going to say classic Robert Stack um and yeah just
kind of saw I think it was initially the four photos of the the yearbook photos which isort are widely put out there
and it just kind of captured my imagination and I remember it um sending it to Adam and we'd just come off like a
we written a script for a horror film that was getting that was kicking around that wasn't sort of going anywhere and
we were sort of looking for the next thing and we and I sent it to him and he just was like I said oh you know do you
think this has got anything has it got legs and he wrote back straight away just being like [ __ ] yeah you know and
so um and yeah and so there from there we you know like it just captured us and we haven't really come up for air since
mhm is this the first True Crime doc you guys have done together it's the first anything we've done that's it's the
first film that we've done so yeah you picked a difficult one yeah yeah we don't yeah what was it like trying to
get ACC like I mean I just know what it was like for me to try and get a couple of interviews and I'm like a local
person from Indianapolis who worked with Crim Stoppers and I can't imagine emailing someone or calling someone from
the other side of the world being like do you mind if we show up and look at what you got I to be honest I think the
Australian thing and coming from an outside perspective was really helpful really yeah really I feel like it opened
doors for us like an example of that is the press conference where I do remember
you there and I I don't know if we actually met I don't think we I don't think we actually spoke yeah which was
just crazy um but I remember we were running five minutes late for the press conference for some reason because we
got lost or something and I remember we walked in and somebody was like okay we're ready to start they're here so
like the whole press conference kind of waited for us to get there wow yeah um and you'd come a long way yeah so um
yeah so to go back initially Adam found a Facebook group and there's quite a lot
of them I don't know as you probably know there's quite a lot and they're very vocal vocal Community um and Adam
originally got in with one of the groups and then I think we first reached out to
Teresa Shelton who's Ruth's sister um and she was the first person that agreed to do an interview okay and I think we
did a pre interview on Zoom well this is pre Zoom so however there was some way we were communicating yeah that was it I
got forgotten about Skype they really like dropped the ball from Co yeah Zoom really took took it um so she was s of
the first one and then we um initially I think we saved $10,000 and hired a d and just got on a
plane and and came here and started to interview people and that was for the 40th anniversary and we knew that we
wanted to be there for that cuz there was the tree planting ceremony as well as the the sort of famous press
conference with the you know the knife and stuff like that so so you guys just got on a plane and came yeah we just
came on a wing in a prayer how long have you and Adam known each other to to be in and like this together yeah we're
been friends besties for about 35 years oh is that all yeah just a lazy 35 um and yeah I mean we were friends at
school and we were both kind of nerds and Adam initially kind of took me under his wing he was the more confident one
um and then you know we were kind of into Dungeons and Dragons before it was cool before stranger things um yeah so I
mean we had that kind of relationship and trust and yeah and it just was an organic thing and we started writing
scripts together and then that never went anywhere and then this came along and we just went for it you can get lost
in True Crime yes did you guys find yourself cly getting lost in this case did it like did it become all consuming
it's still hasn't let go of us really yeah like even now still we kind of we were sitting down on I think we're in LA
on a Saturday night still arguing about how the crime scene was Mark's Body in particular which you know was found and
what happened and all that so yeah well let's get into it a little bit more like
in detail so we can kind of explain for our listeners the case itself and then we can kind of go into because your
documentary explores these couple of very prominent theories on what could have happened yeah and and then I also
want to get into the way that you portrayed those and the way you did your documentary was I haven't seen anything
else like it and I loved it I fell in love with it yes it was so beautiful so so let's just talk about the case yeah
so I mean you kind of gave everyone a high level they are closing up this Burger Chef in November of 1978 it's
closing time Danny asked if he can stay late he wasn't supposed to close that night and someone ends up coming by the
restaurant later that evening who worked there and saw that the lights were still
on they weren't supposed to be and that's what kind of starts setting off alarm bells and they go inside and there
was some stuff remaining right from the kids yeah there was um the ran um Jane's
handbags um and then obviously there was like the safe was open and some and money was missing so but no signs of the
kids no signs really of a struggle either the back door was open is that correct there's different different
theories about how wide it was open but the back door was definitely cracked open um and yeah and they and they
weren't there and Jane she was the only one who had a car at the time but her car was gone is that right or Danny had
a car Danny had a car as well Danny's was there so Danny had a station wagon which is interesting as well cuz it
would have been a bigger car um Jane had a 1973 Chevrolet Vega MH um or is it 74
anyway um so her car was uh was taken right so that's missing so initially they're like oh these there there's
thoughts that these kids like ran off that they did this that they did they take the money I don't know did they run
and take off they're just going to show back up so much so that they ended up cleaning the restaurant yeah like
nothing happened there which is so frustrating maddening they end up finding Jane's car
though and this is a part that like makes my brain itch because they find her car just a couple blocks away from
the restaurant yeah so uh West 15th Street which is it's a 5 minute drive maybe 25 minute walk but they it's part
across the street from a police station yeah do you think what's your theory around that I mean we have so many and
this is another point that me and Adam constantly talk about so uh there's a few things that we've
looked into so the facts are that the car was found it's just it's a park called Leonard Park as well on one side
there's houses on the other police station is kind of almost around the corner but still very close um we are
one you know we've looked into whether it was dropped off for someone that owned an illegal Chop Shop that was
going to pick it up the other interesting fact is that the keys were found in Jane's
pocket um and then the driver side door was locked but the passenger side door was
open um so I mean whether she was with the car you know there's just so many different things that we've looked into
about how or why it was there do you have a favorite Theory oh we've ruminated so long over it and I
tend to think potentially she was with the car when it went there whether she drove it or not I don't know but the
fact that the keys were in her pocket and then that her door was locked apparently she always locked her doors
um and then whether someone picked them up from there and then went back to the restaurant but and there's a handprint
found on our car right yeah there was a palm print who it belonged to one of um Mark's brother's friends who was cleared
apparently okay so they it ends up they don't just show back up they didn't just run off and
people get more concerned and then do you want to talk about their bodies being found yeah um so as far as I know
that Danny and Ruth were found pretty close together and they were almost touching like their legs kind of and
facing each other um and they were both shot pretty close range um and then Jane
was found a few meters away with two stab wounds to essentially the chest heart area and Mark was found further
away uh and almost his body was had almost fallen back on himself and subsequently choked on his own blood
which is also something that we've talked and tried to theorize and Mark is the one that I could just like Spiral on
because a lot of people say that oh so they think think that maybe the kids were driven out there because Johnson
County is a ways away Johnson County is in the middle of nowhere like where they're found there are long driveways
leading to Residents though I mean if you if you know the area but it's the middle of the woods 1978 it would have
been pitch black yeah the the theory is or the thinking is is they were taken out of the van for some reason and so
many people say like the intention wasn't to kill them we again we don't think so at that stage like we don't
think they would have driven all you know like and again we always are like why not just kill them there if you if
that's your intention take them into the office or the store room right yeah so we believe that at that point this they
were just they were trying to buy time or whatever that it wasn't like their intention to kill them so but something
goes south and it looks like Jane tries to run yeah and she's caught and then so
many times I've heard people say Mark runs and people say he he he ran into a tree and fell backwards and that's what
killed him but do you think that's true I mean this is again what's maddening for us and this is something that I
really was like waiting almost my 5 years to talk to you about I mean I listen to Red Ball and is someone that
has seen the the the crime scene photos um so and again it depends on who you ask
which investigator were spoken to subsequent they've all got different thoughts yeah um we've spoken to two in
particular who have both seen the crime scene photos one of them describes it in
our film and the the different uh the with with Jane the different I mean we just sort of heard
recently from one of the investigators that he thinks Jane didn't even know what was coming that she was just
walking she wasn't even running yeah and that someone and they came over her should her shoulder and which is totally
possible because they have no idea there's nothing is that I've ever heard that proves she was running or anything
and she was stabbed not in the back but in the chest so someone chasing her doesn't make a whole lot of sense I mean
it's suggested that they came over her right shoulder and stabbed her twice and she fell either with the perpetrator and
fell onto the knife and that's how the handle broke which makes logical sense um but Mark is you know just so it's
just maddening as to what happened to him and and the different investigators sort of say that you know it was a
baseball bat or he ran into a tree um another investigator says that it was brass knuckles cuz there because of
there was like ligature marks around the eye area um I think the thing for me more than Mark running tree or however
his injuries happen I the only reason I don't really believe the tree theory is cuz he didn't
die from Impact he died from choking on his own blood and they made sure the other kids were dead yeah so if if he
ran to a tree and then just fell backwards why didn't they go why didn't they shoot him how would they know that
he wasn't going to wake up and tell people exactly what happened like that's the part that doesn't line up for me
that's the question and that's what doesn't make sense to us we know from our theor from the questions that we've
asked is that it was a frenzied attack so Dany both Danny and Ruth were shot multiple times I think twice each um the
the Chamber of the gun was emptied um whether they fired at Jane if she was runny or Mark we don't know but
um it just you know there's just so many questions around Mark's injuries and and
what happened and why didn't they go up why didn't they look for him yeah um did they did they find him yeah did
they wait for him to die did did it happen first you we've theorized on that as well did Mark run away and then
that's what caused the chain of events and then we don't know you know somebody one of the investigators says that he
was found next to a tree right close to it another one says that it wasn't near a tree it was a forested area there
would have been a lot of trees around well that's where like that's where I'm like there's the the area they were
found in has a ton of trees so honestly I don't I'm sure you could again I like clearing wise I don't know if any of
them if you could say any of them were found in a clearing but there's trees everywhere like they're not like on the
side of the road and they're in the middle of these these trees yeah so it's always been said too because you know
you've got a knife you have Mark who ran to a tree or maybe was beaten you have Ruth and Danny who were shot there's
always been this theory of multiple perpetrators I don't think there's anyone who thinks one person this I mean
we we diff Ely believe that it was at least two people MH at yeah at least it would have had to have been
um whether there was three it depends on which Theory you kind of like subscribe
to yeah oh I was going to say one other thing as well so there was sort of um one other the uh suggestion that he was
actually beaten with a chain apart that came from the Char broer which was the machine that cooked the burgers and the
Buns that we've also heard that as well why though like was that was that was that missing uh I don't think so I don't
it's actually a good question cuz I've heard chain too but I didn't I didn't know where that came from yeah um yeah I
just got sent and I you know just by speaking to so many people on it that apparently like there was a part of the
Char Broiler that was significant with that kind of injury that was whether it was missing I don't know but interesting
yeah interesting yeah well let's talk about the theories because there are a lot that have come up over the four
decades and some new stuff that you have found yes yeah so walk us through some of the theories you had because there
were how many main theories four right in our documentary we explore four but ultimately there's you know many more as
well but we hope we decided to kind of hone in on the four that you hear the most so the first theory is the robber
gang Theory um and that is a prominent theory that includes a group of guys who were going around robbing Burger chefs
and Kentucky Fried Chickens at the time which had a similar MMO to what happened
where they would come in they would park their vehicle a little way away and then
come in on foot and then go in the back door and Rob the restaurant of the takings and then which so far is like it
lines up right back back door yeah is open yeah yeah so far so good so they would um and then they would leave on
foot and then um they'd either take one of the employees cars to their getaway car or they'd hot tail it to their car
um but and you've got Jane's car that's been moved so that kind of works and the
thing we didn't talk about were the two witnesses and that's where they kind of come in you want to explain that part so
there was two witnesses that one of them was work at the Duncan Donuts which was
shed the car park which was maybe let's say 20 M what do you guys use feet but me 20 ft let's say 20 ft away so they
shared the car park there was a view from The Duncan Donuts to the Burger Chef um one of the employees who was
working had knocked off and she with her along with one of her friends was sitting
behind the Dunkin Donuts close to the railway tracks the geography of thought of this has always been a bit iffy to me
we've sort of had we've actually been to the site um and they were waiting for her dad to pick her up and smoking a
joint yeah and two men came up to them and told them someone was graffiti in the area and to move along and they like
they they made it seem like they were police officers right yeah they made them seem yeah like they thought it was
a police officer so cuz they asked them for ID or something like that yeah um someone authorative right um and then
so through that I don't know if I'm going on a tangent but that's where the composits and the busts end up coming
from the crazy the bearded man and the clean shaven man is who you'll always hear about in this case yeah and it
comes from those Witnesses and in the um other robbery gang theory in these other
robberies that had happened was it always two guys was it more than two guys yeah um usually it was two or three
but there was other members of the robber gang that were they were interchangeable okay um usually they
came in with stockings over their faces okay um in this instance for some reason they didn't um
and then well and they didn't for the they they were didn't have the stockings on in the parking lot that doesn't
necessarily mean someone didn't have stockings on and they came into the burger yeah that's true um but then the
theory is that why kill them if they could well that Jane potentially recognized one of them from when she
worked at the Playfield Burger Chef and one of them potentially was someone that
would frequent that and then she recognized them and then the situation escalated that's when everything went so
yeah okay and they were this group they know who these this these men are they're all um named they were and again
depending on the theory but the investigators of that theory um actually got like cleanup statements from them I
want to say and um so they were known and they were spoken to yeah and the other part that fits is they're
supposedly from Johns Johnson County where the kids bodies are eventually found where they were taken yes one of
them lived or had a had a had a house out there and they were very familiar with that area which to me is seems
really important and I think it's it's really important to investigators now I don't know how important it was back
then it seems like back in the 70s and 80s they spent a lot of time looking at the Burger Chef itself and maybe where
Jane's car was found and really now everyone I've talked to has said no it's where their bodies are found that is
important that is probably tied to whoever took them there or did this yeah so what about the robber Theory doesn't
fit so for me the biggest the biggest Hang-Ups with it is that so the car being parked let's say they parked their
car on West 15th Street it's a 25 at least a 25 minute walk me and Adam have walked a it's a long way to park and
then walk to the restaurant to Rob um and then the other one is and why would you park so close to a police station
true that's always so weird to me I unless you didn't know the area yeah but I mean yeah that's true I mean would
they have not not yeah I mean if they' scoped it out though they would have done their homework um and then the
other big kind of question mark is how did they get Janes vager is a fairly small car I don't know if you've ever
seen one it's a twodo like how do you get at least two or three grown men and four kids into that car and leave in it
where Danny's station wagon yeah why don't take the station wagon um and then you know going from they'd never hurt
anybody before other than there was an incident where I think one of their guns actually went off accidentally and they
shot someone in a in a convenience store who didn't die like how do you go from never hurting anybody to a quadruple hom
side it's a huge leap it's a huge L it is like if you're working it out in your head the only thing that makes sense to
me is that they do what they've always done and they get Jane again I don't know how they expect all the kids to
stay back I don't know if someone stayed with them but they get Jane to take one
maybe one of them to their car and then that's when maybe Jane you know if the theory is Right Jane recognizes the
person and they're like okay well you're coming back with me now but nobody ever
saw another car there that suggests another car which they've never known never has
been another car has never been part of this there's plenty about a van yes so you want go to the next Theory yeah um
so yeah the next theory is the Forester conundrum um which involves a guy called
Donald Forester who was prevalent in the area at the time who was known a known bad guy who was in actually in jail for
a violent rape he was doing 95 years um and he confessed twice and then recounted twice
um and then uh with the second confession they couldn't get a conviction and so it was
so it went that one went all the way to actually trying to get yeah a prosecution on him yes yeah um and then
it was uh the I think at the time they were um sort of like well he was doing n you know he's not getting out anyway so
Mel wiy one of the investigators you know they wanted to obviously get a um you know solve it so for the
families and that sort of thing so and I think that where they kind of like landed on that right was that he he got
some time out from prison basically you know when he was confessing when he was talking to investigators like he got to
come he got to leave the maximum security right so his whole thing was that he was being traded pretty badly in
maximum security wherever he was and I think the deal that they would give him was that they were going to move him to
a different prison MH a less you know like a a bouier prison prison indana um and that he was
um yeah so that you know he would and the theories as they go is that you know he was sort of walked through some of
the investigative areas and saw some of the the you know saw the um crime scene Bo stuff so the stuff that he knew
intentionally or unintentionally he actually learned yes through through his interviews with law en yeah and you can
say I mean I'm sure have you seen the confession yeah so you can see that he's kind of being led yeah yeah um which is
not an uncommon thing that you see in false confessions and again he comes out and recants was there anything that was
like that really tied him to it you know he knew some things um I don't you know
on there was the the shell casings thing that they um so they went to to his house and they drained his he had a
septic tank where so apparently he went back to the crime scene with his girlfriend
and found shell casings that he took from there and then the investigators drained his septics and they found the
shell casings but they didn't match right the gun and so you know there was a lot of like the you know there was a
lot of what you say enough to make them look suspicious yeah enough to get police to take it seriously yeah but
nothing that tied him yeah nothing that like physically tied him so yeah um and you know and it and he knew things and
it was entirely possible that he had heard a story or you know that knew people that were involved because of
what he knew but whether he was there that's the sort of did you is there anyone that still believes it's him that
you ran into well we interviewed Mel wiy who and he still him yeah he was you know he's like we brought this to as
close to a conclusion as we could we for all intented purposes did our jobs you know we got a confession even though it
was recounted but you know we he he knew enough to suggest that he was there so what's the third Theory so the third is
the speedway bomber which is an interesting one it really is so you can't really look at it I
guess without looking at the speedway bomber which was you know the first thing I
think that I that came up when I was researching it was this this Theory the the speedway bomber um
and um you know there was a string of bombings s you know during six days in Speedway in 1978 prior to the murders
happening Bret kimblin was the lead suspect in the cave um he was a a main drug dealer in the
area at the time um there was a woman called Julia ciphers who was the mother of a woman he was seeing who was
murdered at a h at a home by an as salent um and you know you Vox pop anybody in the area and his name comes
up and you guys actually gotten interview with him I like when I saw that part my jaw dropped I was like oh
my God one of people still around from this story yeah um you know he's not someone I you know that does a lot of
interviews uh I think you know our film's you know primarily the only film that has an interview with him in it um
how'd you get him to agree to it uh it was through someone that we were working with at the time that was um one of our
executive producers on the film so yeah so he got us to he organized it for us and
yeah and we were very lucky I guess yeah yeah see very unassuming man yeah I mean
it's you know you go into his house and you see like the animals so many animals
yeah um and yeah like you know he's he has an air of you know charm like most I'd
imagine I don't want to say it but you know like you know ch there's a charm yeah um there's you know there's slight
Menace you know you kind of know who you're talking to but um you know and again like you know he claims he has had
no involvement with the bombings Julia ciphers or the burf murders so um what would what would be what is
like the theory that people put forward if they say he's involved yeah or what what what do you put forward in your
film so the theory is that there was a debt owed to him that others were to collect okay um for him okay um and then
things went South yeah and then things went South is there any connection to Johnson County there or or to assume
that if someone was sent maybe they had some kind of connection yeah I mean the only Theory with Johnson County is that
you know he probably knew he was probably in had a wide reach a lot of areas was doing you know like I know
that his dealings you know took him to a lot of different places so yeah is there
anyone that you talked to in the film that buys into this Theory very heavily cuz I didn't that was one I didn't run
into a lot I didn't run into a lot of people who thought that it was him so there's something towards the end of the
film that um so okay yeah so what is the fourth and final theory that you put forward so it's actually the sorry the
fourth and the fifth kind oh yeah so the fourth one that is well known and then you guys have a fifth one that's not so
well known yeah yeah um so the eyewitness account is a gentleman called Alan puit who this is a
pretty famous account and I know that you I think you looked into it uh only because I talked to Jim Kramer yes and
this was this was the one again every everyone I feel like had their pet theories a lot of people and this was
Jims that he I know just thought about a lot was Alan breit did you interview Alan as well no no no cuz my my story
wasn't necessarily trying to figure out what happened mine was like a short piece on what does it take to from
somebody who you know was very young when it happened had nothing to do with the original investigation how do you
come in and think about solving something like this so I didn't actually go and interview anyone other than some
of the law enforcement yeah fair enough yeah so Alan puit is a very interesting character um he's no longer alive um so
he died shortly after we actually interviewed him which is like incredible that you guys had that final interview
with him yeah um um and he's you know this story has follow like obviously followed him throughout his whole life
so The Story Goes that him and another guy they were looking for things to do it was a Friday night he just got his
paycheck and they went to go to the Galaxy which was the nightclub across the road didn't get in and then he was
hungry so they went to the Duncan Donuts which was across the way from the Burger
Chef uh he the guy that he was with went inside Allan went outside cuz he claims
that he felt sick and subsequently saw an orange van and two men loading well he saw a little bit more than this but
essentially saw the kids being loaded into the van um and then taken out of there and so and so the the his story
was then um so the police found him through a he was doing prison time and there was a guy called Jimmy Fred who
was Jane's brother and Jimmy was a known kind of bad actor in the area at the time as well um and that him and Alan pu
got into some sort of argument in prison and the prison staff alerted the police
that Allan might know something and then he was interviewed and questioned and then he through his questioning the his
account of what he saw came out um and the account is that he recognized two individuals Jeff Reed and Tim Willoughby
um and this is where it gets wild this is where it gets wild um and that they were putting the kids in the van and
that essentially Mark tried to fight back and was pushed up against the van and then maybe knocked out and then they
didn't know what to do it had sort of escalated so their idea was that they would take all of the kids and drive
drive them out of there to buy time and work out what to do yeah yeah and what's
so wild about this is at this point Tim Willoughby is a missing person right yeah so or thought to even be dead at
that point but so Tim and his girlfriend maryan higen Botham were missing since I
think it was June or July of 1978 and months at this point yeah so months and that they were um thought to
be dead and but then Tim was seen that night well identified by Alan puit yeah with Jeff Reed um and MaryAnn higin bams
her body eventually gets found in a barrel in Indianapolis to this day Tim Willoughby has never been found yes
correct so yeah so MaryAnn's um body was uh washed up on is it white lit Creek I
think so I think so anyway we know much as each other yeah um and it was brought
and so yeah her body was found but nothing about Tim Willoughby was ever seen again and so there was a apparently
a witness as well that saw Tim come into a Dairy Queen and said and he said to this person that he had a hide out
somewhere in Florida and you know that he was he could would never be found and you know that he was you know and that
was after the that he was supposedly missing and in Alan puits in this version of
events it's thought that maybe even maryan higgen Botham was there she was alive and and everything yeah and and
that maybe this is the reason that she's killed and that Tim has to abscond if he's somewhere yeah yeah
so his his theory or his sorry his story account goes over kind of two days so the night of the robbery of the murders
and then the next day where he claims that he was picked up in in the same van and um Jeff rid was driving Tim willby
was there and MaryAnn higen Botham was in the back and that she was sort of frantic and not making sense and and
that he they said to him they picked him up from I think it was either a white White Castle or a dairy something and so
then he was driven again into a forested area and they they said to him do you want to come and smoke some weed and he
got in and then they drove him out to this forested area and then apparently I'm just giving the short version of
this that um Maryanne Tau him to run and he ran out of there and then shots were
fired at him and he got away and nobody ever came back for him again yeah that and that was it yeah have you heard that
as well no that was the first time when I when I yeah so for yeah so that's all in his statement yeah
yeah any what do you like about it what do you not like about it as far as theories go so I think the like if you
look at it right so if you look at it from like a probability level like what is most likely to have taken place it
just makes sense that you know these two guys you know apparently they were on a
72-hour bender on you know whatever I don't know is it I don't know I I can't remember what the like
prevalent drug drug was at the time I can't remember either but I it was was something specific yeah and that they
you know were driving past they remembered that a debt was owed they go in there thinking that
they'll just you know you know shake down scare them get the money and they subsequently go there and things turn
sour you know whether you know we'd heard a lot of different people say that you know Mark
would protect Jane and that there was some connection between them and you know even he's you know we speak there
we found an we've got an excerpt in the film from his father saying the same thing that you know he was Jane's
protector and stuff like that so whether he rushed at them and then they put him
up against the van they you know had to stop him and you know things turned sour
and then you know things escalated from there like it just you know to me like broadly that makes I mean this is what's
maddening about the about pruit statement is like that makes sense you know then when you go further into it
and Tim Tim Willer be it becomes more fantastical you know and then especially the next day where maryanne's there you
know it wasn't like the way that he describes it it was like Maryanne but a zombie version or a different version of
Maran and it's like that's where it gets a bit crazy yeah and that's what sort of
Manny about it and also like you know the theory his story changed right over you know the years and he backed away
and the things that he never backed away from and even when we spoke to him was that it was an orange van and it was
Jeff Reed and Tim that he saw that eye do you think that is do you think he actually saw something do you think he
was involved in something and and like inserted himself that way what like what do you make of well that's the really
interesting thing as well because um so Jim Kramer who is an investigator that we worked very closely with who had the
case for 20 years and this is you know kind of his theory um he always said that PR so PR went home that night and
told his mother that something big was going down at the Burger Chef and that there was a witness and an independent
witness that was in the Duncan Donuts that saw puit there that's how they know he was definitely there that night and
that he was moving back and forward from the Dunkin Donuts stood behind the Burger Chef like kind of like he was on
Lookout so it's just so hard to know like is he is there any is he the one of the people
that was seen because we got two men that are seen the bearded man and the clean shaven man and then nobody talks
about seeing or do they talk about seeing kuit was the one that gave that initial account about seeing the two men
so I mean nobody oh right okay well I mean nobody else yeah I mean only that gentleman that was inside the Duncan Don
said that he saw him walking okay wild yeah so so those are and those are the the theories that for decades have kind
of prevailed have made their way to the surface but in you know uh like lifting up rocks and
talking to people you guys uncovered something new after 40 years after we present the four main theories um we
subsequently found a witness who through researching um Jeff Reed and his time at
the snake pit which was the I think it was on one of the turns at the yeah so Indie Indie has the Indie 500 and so
this Speedway is the area where that happens at and it the Snak Pit's like the big party area yeah and so Jeff Reed
was known there as the king of the snake pit and was this you know Larger than Life personality there and the sort of
guy that if anybody had any trouble you know they'd go to him and he'd sort it out and and so um doing some digging
into that we um were put on to somebody who um who had some details that had has
never come out before and that's until now until now that's really that's really what you end on is like hey there
even all these years later because you get this person to talk to you all these years later there's people who are
willing to speak there are stories that haven't been told a 100 times again and new theories that should be explored
yeah and you guys you guys kind of went down that road so it was I mean I can't recommend it enough and I people should
go watch it if you wanted to do you want to hear the new Theory because I'm not going to give it to you here you need to
watch the film So Adam and I would like to ask you a question okay after watching our film and knowing so much
about the case what would you think was the most what theories did you think kind of
worked for you what did you what was the most like you know what did you feel like you thought most
likely I think that you know it's been so long since I've been in it um I mean I still remember everything like it
wasn't a ton of years ago so I don't know the case as well as the two of you do so I really was trusting that like oh
my God they're way deeper in than I ever got but I think that I tend it's so easy
to get swayed by the people who who believe in it and so I was really what I what I was really interested in is like
I didn't spend hardly any time on the speedway bombings so I thought that that was like a really interesting angle that
a lot of it felt fresh to me just cuz I didn't spend a ton of time there because
no one in you know when I was doing it 2019 was spending a lot of time um I really like
the uh Jim Kramer Seri again I really like Jim Kramer and he man he can sell you that when you're sitting at his
kitchen table he can sell it to you and but I what I thought was so meaningful was not just hearing Kramer talk about
it or you know reading a report where he's mentioned but the fact that you guys actually got Alan puit was really
cool to see yeah um I I honestly don't know if there was a lot that I would do different because I think that as of
right now I would say you guys are like the foremost experts on this case um if you would have told me I think before
how you guys were planning on doing the Recreations and having them act I've been like oh my God like that could go
wrong in like 20 different ways but actually seeing the way you guys executed it was amazing I feel like you
know knowing what I know about cases is like you go in and there's all like all this stuff I know you have to leave out
so not that I would do anything differently but I I want to know what is the stuff that you guys left out I mean
this yeah it's such a good question as well there's there's a lot like initially you know we originally devised
this as a as a series um before Co that's what we were working towards so you know in terms of the research there
so much that you know like that you know get yeah well that we just also for time
them you know and I can sit here and name you know other theories like you know the you know the tossa I don't know
if you've heard that one that so a guy was pulled up almost exactly the same time by the police oh I do know this one
yeah yeah yeah so tossing a gun out of his car in a Burger Chef cup you know like that is incredible but like you
know it what can you do with it well it just didn't fit you know in terms of like where we would put it and how you
know anecdotally Kirk you know Kirk's the guy that was going to pick mark up Kirk Thompson and walk past and you know
initially found the door open and thought they were playing a trick on him he walked past the the guy being pulled
up you know so like we could have tied it in that way but like you know how do you do that we didn't you know so like
that was one and then you know there's like there's two brothers that lived in the same building as Mark that Mark was
friends with that you know have done you know that were like potentially dealing drugs and you know
and they were kind of prevalent at one point um there's the 812 letters I don't know I know actually that's so I I
haven't gotten anyone reach out about Burgers Chef in years and just a couple of months ago someone reached out about
the 812 letters to me and they were like my my mom's boyfriend he says that he was the one who drove them out there
that night we think he wrote the 812 we think his brother wrote the 812 letters and I I was like I like this is great
but like you got to tell someone who can do something about it but yeah I cuz it
was I mean what so it was um essentially someone wrote a letter they I don't know
what's in the letter do you um they did publish it in the P so basically what they did at the time was that they
didn't have any other way of kind of like being able this is precomputed so as far as I know and I
might get it wrong that they the person that wrote a letter to the police would tear a $5 note the serial number and
they would hold on to it and then they'd stick it stick the other half to the letter and if the letter led to
something then they would get the reward if they could match the the note back to
the serial number got it yeah so the 812 the reason it's called 812 is because that that was the last three I KN I knew
it was the last couple numbers of something they said it was written in blue ink they really want to talk to the
person who wrote it and it was basically a claim that they were there that night
and they saw it but they were like forcefully there yeah um not under like under their own free will and they saw
the people that did it and they were at the place I think there was two letters that came and that yeah they never could
out whoot figure out who wrote them and then the theory that that we had was that it was
the cell's brothers that wrote them one of them being forcefully or his brother one wrote it for his brother that was
made to be there I mean and then there's like you know there's you know there was
a guy that came back home one night with water and blood all over him and um you
know and he had like blood and water in his van and his wife um and he I don't know what he said to his wife but um you
know but then the story goes his story was that he got into a bar fight and got blood on him um that was sort of looked
into then you know there's obviously like again without naming but crime families in the area that you know were
quite prominent that potentially LED back to it so there was so many things there was also an employee that was uh
working at the restaurant at the time that apparently was going to be fired that night by Jane that didn't turn up
he was supposed to be there that night and that's the reason that Dany had to call his mom and say can I stay back cuz
that person didn't turn up and then apparently rang Jane later like almost at the time of closing and then Jane and
then he's like you know I've had car trouble I can't come in and Jane he was like do you still want me to come in and
Jane was like yeah I want you to come in because the theory is that she was going
to fire him that night um did he come in yeah so well he came in so at the time when Ryan creen got there first and then
found the door open and then this other guy shows up shows up and is like oh I was supposed to be there that night but
I had car trouble and then as soon as Brian rang the police he kind of left High tailed it out there but I want to
talk about what they're going to experience when they watch it because you guys did something that I had never
seen where you recreated the entire Burger Chef yeah and you actually had these four actors playing
Danny and Ruth and Mark and Jane and the interesting part to me it wasn't just like a recreation they were an active
part of the documentary and they would actually pull the narrative Along by talking about the theories and it was it
was like such like a strange experience to watch them talk about what happened what could have happened to them yeah
and I thought it was super powerful like again I hadn't seen it done before I thought you did it in a really good way
what made you guys want to do that yeah um there was a few things I mean initially we wanted to give the kids
agency in their story and not just have them as footnotes in this you know in this story that involves you know like
we you know as Theresa sort of says in the film like we talk about potential suspects and perpetrators and we name
them and the kids are usually just left as a footnote in their own story and so like doing all of the research and
speaking to families and you know like especially Theresa where we had like Ruth formed as a character like we knew
who she was as a person you know we had so much information that we just like we
thought like it just wouldn't have done the story Justice without having them and so initially you know Co set us on
this path I won't lie because we couldn't get back over to Indie the world had shut down and it was like you
know all of these things and production companies and no one knew whether thing you know films were going to get back up
so we initially had the idea to build the restaurant and and kind of look at it forensically like the restaurant
hadn't existed in 40 years you know nobody had ever seen you know nobody that we' ever spoken to had ever seen a
Burger Chef or what it looked like or where you know where any of these things took place and what potentially would
have happened in the office and where the safe was and the and so we kind of like had that idea that we'd build it
and document the build and look at it like that and then potentially put them in there and have them you know for lack
of a better reference Scooby Do the [ __ ] out of it because of that seven you know
we we we had so we we wanted it to be like you know the kind of pitch after that point was like it was link later
met zodiac you know so it was like that 70s you know sort of um Dazed and Confused and see them as you know their
personalities and what they would have looked like together and the workplace relations and stuff like that and then
you know and then kind of have them do the whole mystery and have them solve it what kind of undertaking was it to
actually do that I mean truly you had the entire restaurant you had the uniforms like yeah that seems like a
massive undertaking and how I know it was I mean a lot of research and a lot of work so I come from production design
before this and and when that opportunity came up and we were going to do it like I think I spent maybe about a
year just researching it on the internet just finding pictures just I was you know buying things on E there was so
much on eBay that you could buy like cups and paraphernalia and oh really yeah so I ended up buying a lot like I
was like the Burger Chef guy I was just going to say you're like now the world's
like foremost leader in Burger Chef with like your own collection I I seriously think I probably know the most in the
one of the most in the world about what a Burger Chef that's unbelievable yeah I
I knew you know like the different because the it changed a lot as well over that period in terms of branding
and stuff so like the one that we had in 78 was the orange and brown striped uniforms which had only just come in at
that time before that they were like blue and white um and yeah and then eventually I found a guy on eBay that
was selling a deceased estate that had the form still in packets that I ended up buying them off him like one at a
time and then eventually we sort of became friends and he was like what are you doing with these things in Australia
yeah it's kind of it's kind of a different ending yeah and then I sort of explained it to him and then we ended up
buying everything that he had like boxes of it so that the costume designers were
totally legit yeah so there was no way to replicate that uniform I found out as well they couldn't replicate that fabric
cuz it was so probably 1978 would like go up in flame with like the the like thought of a cigarette it's completely
synthetic as soon as you go near a naked flame you're like up yeah oh my god um and then the only thing that we couldn't
buy with the hats or we did buy one of those like paper hats that the boys would wear and then replicated that and
then the girls hats we had to make out of cutting up a uniform um but we were able to find like some pretty good
pictures on the internet of what there was two Styles so there was a peaked one and then there was one that was like a
beret and um and then yeah just you know ginger for example I'd like ginger who used to work at the restaurant at the
time um I'd ask her questions about where was this and what did the drive and she would draw it for me and like
wow yeah and so and then I worked with our production designer a guy called Jonah boo remers who is incredible um
and we were able to kind of get all of the details in there like nothing El like I've never seen anything else was
this the most expensive under taking in the world it sounds like it that well it
was one set so initially what they would want to do with a film is shoot in a studio so they' do the interior in a
studio because then you can control the lighting move walls if you need to and stuff like that but then we ended up
finding this building in Adelaide in Australia that geography wise was almost perfect to what the actual restaurant on
yeah and it had um another restaurant like another building that was sort of like you know kind of a few feet away
the dun yeah and they were both on sort of like and it had like a essentially a parking lot area wow how perfect yeah so
we um put an offer so that building was about to be knocked down and it was an an abandoned Chinese restaurant and so
then we ended up putting in an offer to this the um what do you called it the agent not to sell it and give it to us
for 3 weeks um the building was then sort of subsequently sold and then they made the offer to the people that bought
it to not knock it down and so then we had C blanch to like go in and knock down walls and do whatever we needed to
because because when it's when when they're done when you were done it just got that was it oh my yeah so then they
we ended up getting an engineer and going in there and the building was subdivided so they needed the kind of
subdivision walls to sort of still be there somehow but then we ended up like knocking it down and making it
structure with the counter and sort of the counter had like sort of could hold it up and then we sort of knocked down
the front of it and built those the big windows and everything but the problem was that it was on a main road so you
know you could kind of hear the sound of car so we we shot at night um so it was
like four which was perfect anyways yeah yeah just hard for like a crew yeah and
a really young cast um so yeah and so we ended instead of doing the studio we did
inside and outside all in the one area so we were you know able to build it as a film set almost exactly the same as
what it would have been in 1978 wow yeah so in rebuilding everything did you also rebuild the
stuff that was outside as well CU I it's so funny I literally remember watching and seeing the Duncan sign seeing the
burgers Chef sign and I'm like did like did you actually rebuild the signs so we
so it was a bit of a point of contention early on so we um they were going to do
it digitally in post and build the Burger Chef sign and apparently I was pretty adamant that I wasn't going to
move forward with the film if we didn't what do you mean apparently I keep were you not there for it I think I had like
it wasn't my finest moment I think I had some sort of like tantrum about like building the sign the sign so what's
interesting about it is that we had to get permission from har hard's own the copyright of burgers Chef so it's
actually owned you know they bought it out in the I think it was the late ' 80s and then you know Burger Chef was sort
of Gone by the '90s um and but when we were researching it we found out that Hardy still own the IP
okay and so we had to get permission from Hardies to be able to use it and that was a whole process in itself
because obviously you know like it's a fairly dark to have happened yeah but it's not like they're still out there
making Burger shfs yeah but I think the reason that they do is so that they can kind of you know make t-shirts and I
don't want anybody just kind of doing that so anyway we worked very closely with them and there was definitely
guidelines that we could and couldn't do with it but then um with the sign like you know we sort of we only kind of got
it really over the line that we had permission to use it after we were building everything like which is crazy
like so what does it ask for forgiveness not permission it was down to the wire and
it was so nerve-wracking that you know that whether we were going to be able to you you know we were literally building
signs that were like you know 15t tall you know so Anna ended up like agen to do the sign and what the sign entailed
was like building the whole like the structure which was the light box and then the pole and it was yeah it was
about 15 ft and it lit up and so essentially I had to get a crane drill into the ground pour concrete put the
sign up for 3 weeks and then knock it down and did you keep any part of it so the sign itself actually exists the
distributor is this you know interesting guy that lives in Melbourne who has a massive house and
he's got all this eclectic [ __ ] and like so you would love his house there's so
much like True Crime stuff there like he's it's almost done like a museum he invited me there to have a look and he's
kept the sign and the Burger Chef letters so at his house cuz we didn't really what do you do with it you know
wait so this guy just has a true crime museum in his house basically he's got a bit of everything like he's really into
sort of cultural history so each room is kind of dedicated to a different sort of
thing and so like he'll have like a be he's got a Beatles room you know where he's got like beetles memorabilia
autographs and then he's got like a room dedicated to some history or like you know he's got a room that's dedicated to
you know like P the history of pornography and you know is it just him like is this does he
have tickets to walk through his for him yeah it's just his thing he's just kind
of wait how big was the sign the sign is like 15t tall I think like where is it in his house I didn't it's in the garage
like I didn't see it on display but there's sort of like talk that we're going to bring it to the premiere in
Melbourne and kind of put it up so would I hope that happens yeah I do too I do too what did everyone in town think did
they think that this restaurant called Chef was popping up and then disappeared like 3 days later so they literally
thought it was a new restaurant and they were getting really excited and people were like lining up trying to come in
shut up yeah even though we had like fences around it and all that sort of thing they thought oh my God this is so
cool there's a new burger restaurant and a dut shop oh my God it's like the double whammy like we're so and so
people were like trying to come in and and then also it was on the radio that there was like a new burger place yeah
in the area and then they found out that it was a film and then it was on you know then they were like it's not it's
film set and so there was like buzz around it in that way we have so many Australian crime junkies so they're
going to love that but they're not going to they they might recognize people in the film cu the all the actors were
Australian right even though I would did not know that because they did their Indiana dialect very well yeah I mean we
were so lucky to get thank you for that by the way but we were so lucky to get um these actors like just on the way to
you know hitting big um so yeah they're all Australian and New Zealand um and we
have we had an amazing dialect coach that you know kind of did the research and you know nailed IND the you know
Midwest which would hear like what they said about our di yeah so specific and some of the research was I think we
ended up like contacting the library and finding they had police fire and ambulance phone calls that they kept oh
and then also race like all of the race calls from like the different you know from over the years so we sort of had
that as well but yeah I mean the actors just did an incredible job cuz like no you know I had a friend that's American
and he was like I didn't know I had no idea and I knew you guys had been here so much that I I was like oh they must
have just like I don't know why I just thought you did this here I mean that was such a great young cast and we were
also lucky with one of our actors um V Davey her mom is an amazing drama so we were lucky enough because she was under
15 she had to be accompanied by guard so we were lucky enough to have her as well
so she worked really closely with us and you know we had the time before to kind
of really delve into it and get them to bond and you know do sort of like a lot of um you know like work together and
stuff like that to really form the relationships and the Dynamics and how you know because they weren't
necessarily friends but they were Co co-workers and what was the Dynamics and how well did they know each other
outside of work so like we really kind of had the time to do that as well and delve into it which was really good
that's amazing yeah when you cuz you guys came back you had a Premiere actually here in the place that it
happened what was the reception um it was really good so we always wanted to bring it to the
families and people that were involved in the case um we were tossing up like kind of you know initially whether to
send links so you know like someone like Theresa could watch it you know you know
with her family and stuff like that which we did do but then luckily enough she agreed to come along and yeah we
always wanted to make a an a thing of it and an event and bring it to everybody here and present it and you know and be
there and have the discussion and you know we we you know the film is essentially a presentation of everything
that we learned you know that the these are the theories this is what you know we have you know
we're presenting it as our research kind of thing and so we were really open and
we wanted to have the discussion and you know we had a Q&A afterwards we were really lucky that you know we had it
moderated by you know local news reporter and everybody you know that came along that was in the film and we
were able to talk about it and you know people in the crowd were very uh enthusiastic and one guy even got up and
you know knew Jeff Reed and had so much to say and almost took over the Q&A so it was yeah it was really good wow yeah
is there anyone that wasn't like it wasn't happy or it wasn't what they expected it's so hard I know with True
Crime cases pleasing everyone's almost impossible I mean there's definitely chatter in the groups about people that
aren't happy that certain people were named in the film M um or you know things were used but I mean again like
you know we presented what we've learned in you know like the best way that we felt we
could yeah did it's been out for how long now while we're recording this uh it came out on the 20th of June here so
okay for almost a month yeah has there been a lot of people coming to you afterwards like I mean again I know the
stuff that you can kick up while you're just like talking to people around town and now this has a global stage yeah
have you been getting information since then has anything changed have there been new tips um yeah there has been and
people definitely come forward um you know not all of it ends up being you know relevant um but we usually will you
know Point them in the direction of you know the right people to go to whether it be you know the ISP or you know we
we'll you know we'll filter it through so we can get it you know and everything along the way we've done the same so
anybody do you really view yourself at this point like you're like the tips are great we're going to pass them on but
we're moving on to new projects or are you always going to continue to follow up on those like are you it's such a
good question I don't think you can ever really get this out of you like I think
that you know it will be part of us forever and you know certainly people come forward we'll always give them the
time and and also pass it on if it if need be so you know I mean we're both working on different things and we've
got our next projects as well but you know like this is still our you know baby and our Obsession and our first
love so yeah what is next for you both um Adam's working on a documentary in Australia that's um a pretty uh
well-known kind of case that's happening out there um and I'm looking at doing and we've
got a few projects together and then separate and I'm looking at doing something that's pretty scripted but
sort of involves a lot of this stuff that I'm into as well that's very crime junky love it I can't get it out of me
so yeah we're do you guys think you'll do another documentary or like what was the takeaway from this it's like yes we
would love to do this again or oh my God this consumed our lives and one is enough and we'll be obsessed with this
case forever I mean we love it and we'd never say no we we love you know we definitely want to do both yeah we love
scripted and we love doc so um you know we've got a few things as well that we're working on that a documentary as
well so yeah we're we're here you know we're we're still going and you know we'd always like to do it somewhat
differently you know I think the what we were lucky with with this one was that we got to do it you know a little bit
differently M and it had a very different angle so you know we we'd definitely like to kind of hone our
skills and yeah and do it again remind people where they can go watch this yeah so
in the states it's um it's on at the moment it's on Apple Plus Apple TV plus Amazon Prime and On Demand um and then
in Australia it will be out on Apple TV Amazon and on demand and limited theatrical uh from the 7th of August and
then New Zealand Film Festival on the 10th of August there is again it we talked about a lot of
theories but there is new information a new Theory at the end people need to go watch and I'm not going to spoil it
either but I especially love the way that you guys did the ending it was talking about like making it really
bringing it home making the kids real it was like such a beautiful touching ending so make sure if you're in the US
you can go watch it now Apple TV plus Amazon Prime and if you're in Australia it's coming out very soon August 7th
Apple TV plus and Prime make sure you go watch um yeah I just want to say as well
that if there's anything um any uh tips or any info that people have um you know
wouldd love them to come forward and we can either pass it on to authorities or they can go straight to the authorities
with any promising leads or information would' encourage anyone to come forward what would be the best way to get in
touch with you if they wanted us to talk about something Instagram Instagram yeah
Instagram or Facebook perfect and then we'll put the information for the Indiana State Police who have the case
in the show notes don't forget to follow this show and add it to your library and
don't forget to follow crime junkie we have a brand new episode of crime junkie AF the last Friday of every month but if
you can't wait till then you can head to Crime junkie radio on SiriusXM in their
app for your 247 True Crime fix and you can follow me Ashley flowers on Instagram Ashley flowers and you can
follow me Ashley flowers crime junkie on Tik Tok stick around we're going to be playing you a special clip from the
speedway murders right after this I will see you right back here next month the fact that no one has been held
responsible Burns a hole right through [Applause] me usually when I start having
nightmares it's it's getting colder and it's just my heart just sinks and and I remember that she's gone
[Music] on November 17th 1978 four employees of the Burger Chef Restaurant in Speedway
Indiana were abducted two days later on Sunday afternoon a person found their bodies in rural Johnson County Indiana
where they had been murdered Ruth and Danny were both shot face down execution style Jane was
stabbed twice in the chest and then Mark was beaten the bodies of jam C freed Mark lemens
Daniel R Davis and Ruthie Shelton have been discovered late this afternoon in Johnson County the crime still remains
unsolved 1978 just hours after closing time four employees ages 16 to 20 they were found murdered a few days later in
Johnson County no one has been charged with a crime about one of the most infamous crimes in State
history somewhere somebody knows what happened

Ashley sits down with Luke Rynderman, co-writer and co-director of The Speedway Murders.

THE SPEEDWAY MURDERS is out NOW, on Prime Video, Apple TV and more. Watch it from home by buying it here.

If you have any tips about the murders of Jayne Friedt, Mark Flemmonds, Ruth Shelton, and Daniel Davis at the Burger Chef in Speedway, Indiana, in 1978, please contact the Indiana State Police hotline at 317-899-8510, or Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana at 317-232-TIPS (8477).

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Crime Junkie AF is hosted by Ashley Flowers.

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Ashley Flowers is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of audiochuck, an Indiana-based, award-winning, independent media company with 10+ chart-topping podcasts and over 2 billion listener downloads. Best known for her inaugural podcast Crime Junkie, named Apple Podcasts’ #1 show of 2022 and 2023, Flowers also hosts and executive produces The Deck and The Deck Investigates and Crime Junkie AF. In 2022 she authored her first novel, All Good People Here, which became an instant #1 New York Times Bestseller. She is committed to giving back and is the founder of nonprofit Season of Justice, which is dedicated to solving cold cases.

0:00:00-0:01:45 : Meet Luke Rynderman 0:01:45-0:08:08 : How the Doc came to be 0:08:35-0:11:14 : Case Summary

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved Burger Chef murders and the documentary "The Speedway Murders" with co-director Luke Renderman.

Key points

The Burger Chef Murders. A chilling cold case that has remained unsolved for over 40 years.
Documentary Insights. Exploring the making of a documentary about the Burger Chef murders.
Theories on the Murders. Delving into various theories surrounding the mysterious murders.
The Bearded Man and the Clean Shaven Man. Witnesses describe two key suspects in the case, adding layers to the investigation.
Alan Puit's Eyewitness Account. Alan Puit claims to have seen the kids being loaded into a van, identifying suspects.
Uncovering New Theories. After decades, new witnesses and theories about the case emerge, challenging long-held beliefs.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It just captured my imagination.

Describing the initial interest in the case.

4:31WatchAug 2, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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