Could These 1969 Murders Be Tied to Hollywood’s Most Infamous Cult? | Forensic Files

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brett. >> And this is Maggie.
>> She has a name. >> She has a name. She also is comfortable and has more energy. So, unlike last
time, I don't know if she's going to zonk out for the whole episode. [laughter] And it is an episode that is a perfect
example of why we need to keep cold cases alive, [music] why we need to keep revisiting them with
fresh eyes. Because when a detective went the extra mile to name a victim who couldn't speak for herself, his work led
to a break in a [music] case that seemed impossible to solve for decades. And it
led him to another [music] case that could be connected. But police still need more information to solve these
once and [music] for all. And so we need you, crime junkies, to listen closely and share these details
far and wide in case someone out there is sitting on answers. This is the story of the Mahulland Drive murders.
It's January 2003 and homicide detective Cliff Shepard is kicking off his year digging through boxes of paperwork in
the LAPD's archive unit. Detective Shepard's an almost three decade vet of the department and he's recently been
assigned to the cold case unit. though he's reviewing cases from the late 1960s, especially ones with evidence
that can be tested with new technology. But the archives are a disaster. I mean,
over the years, files have gone missing or haven't been logged correctly. Some case materials haven't been [music]
touched in decades. And as he's sorting through it all, trying to make sense of a backlog that's gathered dust, like
skimming case [music] summaries, trying to figure out which files are even complete. But when he pulls one box off
the shelf and lifts the lid, he sees something that should never ever be in these boxes. A tan lace bra stained with
blood, not sealed, not tagged, just like shoved in this box with yellowing case files. And this is not how he should be
finding evidence. But like on the other hand, it like >> it's evidence. >> It's still evidence. It's like evidence
with blood on it that may still be testable, which is like kind of exactly what he's looking for, right? So, he
sees the file it's in belongs to the case of someone known only as Jane Doe 59 because she was LA County's [music]
59th Jane Doe found in 1969. Even if the blood just belongs to this victim, like he sees huge potential to
be able to use it to give her a name, which might actually kickstart an investigation that,
>> as he goes on to read, didn't make it very far. So what he sees is that on November 16th, 1969, a 15-year-old boy
was hiking Mhulland Drive to go bird watching when he found the woman's body in a ravine tangled up in branches and
brush about 15 [music] ft down the hillside. LAPD arrived on the scene by nightfall and determined that the victim
was white, about 23 years old, 5'9, and she had been stabbed in the neck over 150 times with what police thought was
likely a small knife. Now, to them, it looked like she'd been stabbed while laying on her back, like maybe her
killer like sat on top of her to like subdue her, and she had her head turned to one side because most of her wounds
were on the side of her neck. But she fought back, or at least tried to block the blade from coming down on her
because she had defensive wounds on her hands. Now, police didn't find the murder weapon at the scene, but they
were pretty sure of one thing. This wasn't where she was killed. There were bloody drag marks left on Mhalland
Drive, like her killer had parked there, dragged her across the road, and then put her body over the edge of the ravine
until it like fell down the hillside. >> Were there any tire tracks nearby? >> None were mentioned in the case file,
but you can see faint tire marks in some of the crime scene photos. Like, problem
is police wouldn't have known how relevant they actually were because this was a busy road, so like it could have
nothing to do with this. Okay. If this was a busy road, like how did no one see someone dumping a body here?
>> Well, Mahalland Drive had or still has probably some stretches with like houses
right by the road and then stretches [music] that just like hills and ravines on both sides. So, the area where this
woman was found was more secluded, like still near some houses, but like none of
them like overlooked this specific [music] stretch. So, no one would have seen this car stop from their window or
anything like that. And it's very possible they dumped her in the overnight hours when traffic and
activity in the homes would have been light. >> Mhm. >> There's not an exact time of death,
though. All the coroner could tell during her autopsy was that she had been dead like 24 to 48 hours and she had
eaten about 2 hours before she died. And there were no signs of sexual assault. Her clothes, a sweater, corduroy jacket,
jeans, boots, and that tan lace bra, those were all still intact. And not much else is found at the scene until a
few days later when a road worker turned in a pair of prescription glasses found
nearby. Now, these were either missed by the investigators who did the initial search or they were left there after and
like so therefore might not even be relevant. But either way, they looked like men's glasses and therefore
theoretically could be connected to their killer. Definitely not their victims. Now, the CBC reported that work
had already been done on this lead back in the day, and all that police really got to was that the prescription was for
a very nearsighted man, but the brand was pretty common, so like it wasn't something they could actually trace.
>> Could there be any DNA still on the glasses? >> So, Detective Shepard told us that the
glasses weren't in evidence when he picked up the file. So, like I don't know if they're lost. I don't know if
they were destroyed over time, but there's no trace of them. And so, like when he
>> There's no trace of them. There's no DNA to test, >> right? >> Did they try to test her bra or anything
else at the time? >> Well, detective told us that back then all the bra could have been tested for
was blood type, but he didn't even know for sure if they did that or not. He also said that no one scraped under her
fingernails or anything. So, like, you know, there were definitely missed opportunities for sure. And when no one
came forward to claim this woman's body, that's when she became known as Jane Do
59. They tried IDing her using the clothing that she was found in. They thought that basically what she was
wearing was a little heavy for LA even in November. Plus, some of the clothes were made outside of the US. So, they
started contacting law enforcement in Canada. They were contacting Interpol, checked with police throughout the US,
ran her fingerprints, but nothing came up. And after that, the case just went real cold real fast. So, this is what
Detective Shepard starts out with. This isn't the kind of case he usually looks for. Like no ID, no suspects, all the
evidence is basically gone. And on top of it, Jane do 59 was cremated by the coroner's office because her body was
never claimed. But there is this bloody bra, which at this point is like a north
star for him. Now, Detective Shepard told us that LAPD was a little behind other departments on when they started
testing DNA, but they finally got it going at around 2001 when the cold case unit was formed. So, this is like 2
years before he picks up the case file. So, right away, he submits the bra to the state's missing person's DNA
program. But even that was lagging behind. And this is really what he needs because he's looking to ID the victim
first and foremost. So, results are going to take a while. And Detective Shepard has to put any investigation
kind of on the back burner until he has something to investigate, >> right? >> But even with 133 cold cases on his
plate, this one stays in the back of his mind. And he doesn't know what it is [music] that jogs his memory or why it
happens one random day in 2005. But he starts thinking about the book Helter Skelter by Vincent Boliosce. It was a
book that he read back in 1976, like very early on in his career. The author was the prosecutor in one of the most
infamous murder trials in American history, the Tate Labianca case, which I'm sure like a lot of crime junkies
know about. >> And Helter Skelter was basically like the first definitive account of the
Manson family and their crimes. Anyway, for some reason, he feels compelled to pick this book up again. And what do you
know? In the epilogue, there is a paragraph about Jane Do59. In it, Bulliosce floats his theory that Jane
do59's murder might have been linked to the Manson family because of when she died. Her body was found a week and a
half after the mysterious death of a Manson follower. By that time, the Manson family was under investigation
for multiple murders. So, Bulliosce wonders whether she may have like witnessed the follower's death and then
was killed to keep her from talking about it. Now, Boliosi is clear that he doesn't have any evidence to back this
theory up, but honestly, it's not even all the Manson stuff that catches this detective's attention most. I mean, yes,
it's interesting. Yes, it's how he got here. But it's another detail in that paragraph that stands out to Detective
Shepard. Boliosi mentions the name of another young woman, 17-year-old Marina Haba, who was also brutally stabbed to
death just 10 months before Jane do 59. And her body was found within 2 miles of
Janeo 59's in a different ravine off Mhalland Drive. And now Detective Shepard is thinking, what if these two
young women are connected? And if so, are they really connected to the Manson family? Or does he have a different
serial killer on his hands? [music] [music] When Detective Shepard looks into Marina's case, he learns that it wasn't
investigated by LAPD. It was in a different jurisdiction, so the sheriff's department took it, [music] which may be
why neither department made any connections initially, even though Boliosi eventually did. But because
Detective Shepard doesn't have the case file, he starts by reading through old news coverage. He learns that in
December of 1968, Marina, a college freshman and aspiring artist, was home for winter break after her first
semester at the University of Hawaii. She was staying at her mom's house off Sunset Boulevard, right where West
Hollywood borders Beverly Hills. On the night of December 29th, Marina went out with friends to celebrate New Year's a
little early. And around 3:30 a.m., her mom finally heard her sports car pull into the driveway. And then seconds
later, she heard another car outside, [music] one with loud pipes. It sounded kind of like an older model. It's been
reported that she told detectives she looked out her window and she saw Marina's car parked in the driveway
[music] with a man standing next to it. And then another car, a black sedan, was
also parked in the driveway. Now, I'm sure this all happens fast, but the black sedan starts backing out, and the
man runs toward it, yelling something like, "Go!" before jumping in. And they speed off just as Marina's mom goes
outside. But when she's out there, there's no sign of Marina. Even though when her mom checked her car, the keys
are like still in the ignition. And in an instant, this bad feeling [music] just courses through her mom. And by
3:45, she was on the phone with police reporting her daughter missing. When they arrive at the house, all she could
tell them about the man she saw was that he was young, like not super helpful. Police do check out Marina's car and
they made note that the glasses her mom said that she needed for driving and likely kept in her car, those were
missing. They also noticed that the emergency brake was pulled all the way up, like as far as it can go. And I
don't know exactly how they got to this from that, but they thought whoever pulled it used more force than Marina
could have. They say because she was a smaller girl and like I don't know what this car is, but like I can fully pull
up my emergency brakes. Like I'm think even thinking of like the trucks that I used to drive in high school like
>> this. I don't know how accurate this is. Maybe we don't know the cars at the time
or maybe men didn't know women at the time. That's probably that one. Yeah. So even though police were quick to dismiss
missing teen girls as runaways at the time, that didn't happen here. They actually took Marina's disappearance
seriously right away. And that might have been because Marina's mom told them that they had a close relationship.
Marina didn't need to keep secrets from her. And because her mom was an actress and her dad, a writer in Switzerland,
was in the industry, too, police wondered right off the bat if Marina may have been kidnapped for ransom.
>> So, while her mom waited by the phone for a ransom call, police worked on building a timeline of Marina's last
known [music] movements, pieced together by questioning the friend she went out with the night before, and her date, a
family friend named John, who she had known since she was little. And John told police that Marina came over to his
house in Belair on Sunday afternoon around 8:30 p.m. They got in a limo with this group of friends. One of their dads
had like arranged it and they went to a club called Trouador, which is still in West Hollywood today. The group left at
around 11:30 p.m. and the limo dropped Marina and John back off at his house. He says they hang out until like 3:15 in
the morning when Marina left to make the 20-minute drive from his house back to hers. So, that timeline would put her
back at around 3:30 in the morning, exactly when her mom heard her car pull in. [music] And we asked Detective
Shepard what he thought about all of that, like if he thought Marina drove herself. And he said yes. He didn't
think that whoever took Marina would go to the trouble of like driving her car back to her house, parking it in the
driveway. >> He thinks it's more likely that she made it home and then was just taken as she
pulled in. >> Okay. And [music] we totally believe John, right? Like I know anyone
theoretically could have followed her, but can anyone confirm that Marina was actually there for those 4 hours where
he said she was? >> So that's the thing. It seems like John was cooperative with police when they
talked to him, but we don't know if anyone [music] backed up his story or if police just kind of took him at his
word. I would love to ask John, but we just missed our window. He passed [music] away in 2024.
>> And what did any of the other friends say? Like how was Marina that night? it
was anything like off. >> So, this is the good news. So, we actually did get a hold of someone who
was with her that night, like in that group, and it's Marina's best friend's boyfriend. And he told us the same thing
he told police back then. Like, everyone had a good time. Everyone seemed to be in a good mood. There was no drama that
he noticed. But, and this hasn't been reported as far as we know, he said that there was a rumor going around that
night that Marina's boyfriend was [music] married. John. >> So, this is the catch. He didn't know
the guy's name, but it was whatever guy she was with that night. And that night,
her date was introduced to them as her boyfriend. So, like, we think so. I can't prove it.
>> Yeah. We don't have anything saying definitively. Yes. >> Yeah. And we showed him a photo of John
and he said John's face looked familiar, but all these years later, like he couldn't be sure if that is the person
who was with them that night. Now, he did remember that the man she was with seemed a little older than the rest of
the group. Most of them were around 18 to 21. I know John was 23, which you know, and at that age, it can feel
older. And I had our reporter try and find out whether or not John was married at the time.
>> Turns out John was. He and his wife got married and had a child in 1967. [music]
So, why was he out on a date with a 17-year-old? And I don't know if his wife was asking the same question, but
they got divorced in 1970, a little over a year and a half after Marina's murder,
but then they remarried in 72 and then split for good a few years after that. >> So scandalous if it was him. I say if
because again, we don't have 100% confirmation that John was the one with Marina. And according to the Chicago
Tribune, Marina's family said she and John were just friends and she had a different boyfriend who they didn't
name. Then a college friend of Marinas told the Honolulu Star Advertiser that Marina had decided not to come back to
the University of Hawaii after winter break because apparently her boyfriend was going to be discharged from the army
soon and they planned to get engaged over the holidays. So Marina wanted to transfer to a school in California to be
closer to him. Now John wasn't serving in the army before the holidays, but he just graduated from college in 1968. So
maybe Marina was talking about him, but for whatever reason, like she like fudged some details. Like it's the only
thing I if she's talking about him, like some of the details are wrong, right? Like
>> Right. And does the family know who the other guy is and they just like weren't
saying? Is he real? Could she have made up a fake boyfriend cuz she was dating this older guy? She knew it'd be a
little bit scandalous. >> I don't know. Marina's parents have passed away. Friends we reached out to
haven't gotten back to us. Like I said, we got that one person who was there that night and our FOYA request was
denied. So, we haven't seen the case files. >> That being said, if anyone out there
does know anything about this or you were there or friends or connected to the family, email me tips audio check.
Now, her missing person's case only stayed a missing person's case for 2 days because on New Year's Day, Marina's
body was found. It was actually her purse that was found first at a Mullen Vista point. Nothing seemed to be
missing. There's still money, credit cards, some kind of ID inside. And then her body was found a few hours later at
around 400 p.m. Not far away. Police knew it was her right away because she was still wearing the outfit John
described to them. Brown capries, a white turtleneck, and [music] a fur trimmed coat. She'd been stabbed at
least twice in the neck, had six or seven stab wounds on the front and back of her torso, and there were signs that
she had been strangled as well, and she had what looked like a cigarette burn on
her skin. And along with two black eyes, her body was badly bruised. Now, the coroner couldn't confirm sexual assault
at the time, but we spoke with detectives who said that Marina had been sexually assaulted, and it seemed like a
sexual assault kit was done. But we are still unclear what happened to that kit based on our reporting. Now, here's the
part that really stands out. When Marina was found, rigger mortise was still setting in [music]
and fresh blood found in her lungs and airways hadn't clotted. Blood usually dries in clots pretty quickly. So that
combined with the rigor meant that she likely died within 8 to 12 hours of being found. So probably between 4:00
[music] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on January 1st. Right. And very interesting, she had eaten recently and the food had
moved to her small intestine, which happens about 2 to 5 hours after a meal. So that narrowed down her time of death
to just a few hours after she ate. And just as an interesting flag, Jane Doe also ate two hours before she had died.
Like almost like someone had had a meal with both of them, like they had both eaten a meal with possibly their killer
before being killed. Yes. And it could have been multiple people >> because that's an idea that was
entertained because they believe more than one knife was used to kill Marina. The coroner noted some of the stab
wounds had two sharp edges. Other ones had one sharp and one rounded. Caveat here is yes that could mean different
types of knives. But it also apparently can also just mean different angles of entry. So could be multiple, could just
be one. But two makes sense like at least to me knowing that Marina's mom saw like a guy by the car and then
another guy who yelled go >> right >> clearly to another person that he was with
>> driving probably right. Yeah. But the question still is who and why. >> It didn't seem like a ransom plot to
police anymore though. I mean they never got any demands before finding her. But
they quickly find a new angle to explore. They said there had been multiple sexual assault attempts in
Marina's neighborhood before she went missing. And they started to consider whether her kidnapping might have been
[music] connected to those. So they put word out about this, even questioned at least one guy that they suspected in
another abduction, but nothing [music] ever stuck to him relating to Marina. In August 1969, they investigated the
Michigan co-ed killer, John Collins, because he'd allegedly killed girls from Northern California earlier that year.
But John didn't even arrive in California until June of 1969, which is months after Marina's murder. So, he
gets ruled out. Then came the Manson murders later that August. Then Jane do 59 was found dead that November. And in
December, state officials sent LAPD a list of unsolved cases that might match the Manson family memo, particularly
violent stabbing deaths. And that list included Marinas and Jane do 59s. Initially, they thought maybe Marina was
stabbed with the same knife used in the tape murders by the Manson family, but that couldn't be proven. And then there
was nothing else physically connecting the [music] cases. So, even though more was able to happen in Marina's case than
in Jane do 59, they both ended up in the same spot by 2005, cold as ice, until Detective Shepard gets that bee in his
bonnet and rereads Helter Skelter. But he has the benefit of hindsight. So he knows investigators in 1969 were eager
to tie almost every unsolved stabbing murder to the Manson family at the time. And he's taking Boliosi's theory with a
grain of salt. Like to him, yeah, okay, the Manson angle is possible. But without proof of that, anything is
really possible. So Manson stuff aside, does he think that the two are connected
for sure though? He thinks there are a lot of similarities worth looking into and he wants to see if Marina's sexual
assault kit still exists so he can run DNA tests because if Marina and Jane do 59 were killed by the same person, the
answer to both cases might lie in one piece of evidence. So soon after he contacts the sheriff's department about
Marina's case, >> but he can't get much out of them. No one there seems to be actively working
her case or even knows much about it. And it's not like he can go over there. Like he has no jurisdiction there. He
can't go banging down doors. So he just like ends up not being able to get answers on her [music] case or answers
as to where that kit is or if it still exists. >> Right. It could [music] just be like
stuffed in a box somewhere >> like the bra he found. Exactly. And he ends up hitting another wall even in his
own case because the DNA that he does have isn't the slam dunk he was hoping for in May 2006. So, this is 3 years
after he submitted that bloody bra for testing. Detective Shepard gets word that the lab was able to recover a
female DNA profile. But the only national database they can put it into right now is Cotus, which isn't showing
any matches. So, this is great if you can ever find a family member to compare it to,
>> but until then, she's going to still be Jane Do 59. [music] So, Detective Shepard has no choice at the time but to
shift focus and tackle other cases with more promising leads. Over the next few years, his work helps bring down serial
killers like I don't know if you've heard of him, Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer, Lonie Franklin, and Chester
Turner. In early 2012, he is set to retire. But still, in the months before he does, like he just wants to see Jane
Do's case solved. So, he reaches out to media outlets while he's like wrapping things up, hoping someone's going to run
her story. And someone out there will see it. Someone out there is looking for her. But almost everyone he turns to
turns him down, telling him to call back when he has a suspect [music] and a better story.
>> But he won't have a suspect until he gets an ID, which he can't do without press, which you giving him.
>> Exactly. One person hears him, though. Michelle McNamera. >> Michelle. So, for those of you who don't
know, she was an incredible true crime journalist who wrote like infamous book, [music] I'll be gone in the dark. It's
incredible. Highly recommend. >> Yeah, she's she's pretty big in like the true crime space, right? And she is kind
of like us, right? She's like doing her blog. You're not like tied down by like these big organizations above you like
telling you what you have to get. >> You kind of pick and choose what she's going to cover.
>> And she's like, I'll absolutely take this on. But unfortunately, right then, that's not what moves the needle.
>> So, no one comes forward with new information by February 2012 when Detective Shepard retires after 37 years
with LAPD. He hands the case off to another detective, Lewis Rivera, and hopes that someone someday will bring
Janeo 59's name to light. But his work wasn't for nothing. Because in 2015, Detective Rivera gets a call from the
coroner's office. They've just heard from a woman in Canada who thinks Jane do 59 may be her sister Reit. And guess
how she made the connection? Michelle's blog. She ends up telling Detective Rivera that she learned about the case
from a friend. She came across the blog post which had a picture of Jane Doe 59's face taken during her autopsy and
she thought the woman in the picture looked like this woman, Reit Yervson. She was only 19 when she left Toronto
for LA in late 1969. Her friends and family lost contact with her after that and no one had seen or
heard from her since. So, Detective Rivera asks for photos of Reed, descriptions of her jewelry, anything
that he can compare. I mean, you know, DNA is going to be like the ultimate judge. But before they can even get to
talking about that, the description this woman gives of her sister's jewelry seals the deal for him. She says her dad
had two rings made from an old pair of cufflings, one for each of his daughters. And a ring found on his Jane
Doe matches the one Reit's sister has. So after all these years, they finally know who she is. Jane Doe 59 is Reit
Yervson, and DNA ends up confirming it. I can't imagine that like what it must be like to find out that your sister who
you thought was just gone >> like her life like was actually murdered >> and not being able to claim her body is
heartbreaking. And because so much evidence was destroyed even though Detective Rivera knows who Re is he has
to start his investigation from scratch [music] to figure out who would want her
dead. Hector Rivera travels to Montreal [music] to interview Reed's family and friends. He learns that Reed was the
youngest daughter of prominent Estonian refugees. [music] Her mom's uncle was actually the last president of Estonia
before the Soviets took power. And Reed was the free spirit of the family. She spoke [music] three languages, loved to
make art, and she even sewed her own clothes. And after she graduated from high school, she moved in with her
grandmother in Toronto and got a job at a [music] post office. But before she left Montreal, she met a guy there in a
cafe named Jean or John. >> John, like Marina's friend, John, I realize it's a common name, but like
>> even though it is a wild coincidence, police say it is just a coincidence. >> Okay.
>> Now, this John, I'm going to call him Jean as was a John. This Jean might have
had a French accent. So, he was probably French Canadian and he had like long feathered like ' 60s rocker hair,
whereas Marina's John was cleancut. So, anyways, it seems like Reed fell hard for this guy. Sometime around September
of 1969, she followed him to LA, likely by bus, where he was thought to be staying with another friend of his, also
named, wait for it, Jean or John, also from Montreal. >> My god, >> I'm going to call him roommate Jean. And
then I'll call the other guy boyfriend John. >> And then there's also John with Marina.
>> Marina's John. [laughter] >> Got it. You got it. >> So on October 31st, 1969, this is
Halloween. Reit [music] sent a final postcard to her family from LA and she wrote that she was happy. She was going
to the beach a lot and the people were super nice. But this was the last anyone ever heard from her. Years later, a
friend of [music] Ree ran into roommate Jean back in Montreal long before Reit was ever identified and asked him about
her. [music] And roommate Jean said, "Yeah, she stayed with us for a couple of weeks. Everything was good, but then
she just left." Now, Reit did plan to visit her brother in Arizona. LA was always supposed to be just like a pit
stop, but we know she never made it to Arizona. So her friend asked roommate Jean if he had any idea where Reed could
have gone, but he's like, "No, all I know is that she left." At the time, Reed's friend didn't speak French well,
and roommate Jean didn't speak English well. So, it is also possible something was lost in translation, or maybe he
knew more, but like she didn't know how to get it out of him. I don't know. Okay. But if she disappeared in LA and
her brother was, I assume, expecting her in Arizona, why didn't anyone report her
missing or like wouldn't be the first time, did they? And the police missed it. Her family never filed the missing
person's report. Detective Rivera told us that because Reit was so independent and her family, we found out, was like
very religious and strict, everyone kind of just assumed she'd [music] chosen to
cut ties and just start over in LA. And they did actually send a friend living down there to check on her at the
address written on the postcard. But when the friend rang the buzzer, a caretaker answered and told her that
Reit moved out a while ago, didn't leave a forwarding address. [music] So this friend never went inside and knocked on
Reed's door or anything. And at one point, it's not like her family wasn't looking for her. Like they even hired a
PI to find her, but nothing came of it. And they said that the sketches police circulated of Jane do 59 didn't look
anything [music] like Reed. So they wouldn't have recognized her through those. And by the way, Reed's family was
okay with us covering her story, but they wanted privacy and they didn't want to speak for it. But in an inmemoriam,
her sister said they always believed Reed would [music] reconnect with them someday. Like they never imagined, even
in all their searching, that [music] she was actually dead. And the CBC found a note written by Reed's mom asking anyone
with information about her daughter to call her collect. So all those years, they never stopped looking for answers,
even before her mom died. And in 2006, Detective Rivera was fully ready to like pick up that baton that she had been
carrying before her death. And he starts with the address on the postcard Reed sent, hoping somebody like a neighbor
could give him information about Reed's last days [music] and about these Jean guys. But the
apartment building, which in ' 69 stood right next to Paramount Studios, [music]
it had been demolished by then. Now, he does eventually find a former owner, but
they don't have any records from [music] the time. And we're sure that roommate John isn't Merina's John or that
Marino's boyfriend. There's so many John's and like there's >> Yes. >> It feels so unlikely.
>> Yeah, I know. We've talked about boyfriend John was very different. The roommate Jean didn't match Marina's John
either. >> Okay, >> so just as like a quick description, boyfriend John, he's taller. He's like
over 5'9, has long dark hair, dark eyes. Roommate Jean, shorter, around 5'6. He had short black hair, blue eyes.
Marina's John didn't look like either of those guys. Okay. At least not in the black and white photos I've seen. It
seems like he had short, lighter hair, light eyes. Even though, interesting fact, her John, Marina's John did spend
time in Europe growing up. Like I don't know if he ever lived in France specifically. And it seemed like he
moved out of California pretty soon after Marina's murder, like probably before even got there. and then never
lived anywhere near her apartment or had any ties to Canada as far as we know. >> Okay. So, why haven't either of the Jean
guys come forward if they have nothing to hide? >> Exactly. >> And they'd be like what in their 70s
now? Yeah. >> I mean, they or someone who knew them >> should still be out there.
>> Yeah. Have to still be out there. >> So, yeah, that's how Detective Rivera feels. The problem is nobody seems to
remember these guys' last names after all these years. And tracking [music] down two guys named Jean from Montreal
who were in LA in ' 69 feels like looking for a needle in a hay stack. >> But Canadian media outlets do manage to
track down a painter who said that he remembered boyfriend Jean back then. This painter was a waiter in Montreal
and saw him with Reit a few times. And he thinks boyfriend Jean was a maybe a medical student. Maybe his name was
Pierre, but still no last name. So, this painter and a friend of Reeds eventually
sit down with a forensic artist to create sketches of both of these genres, which LAPD releases to the public. But
even having sketches, [music] those haven't led anywhere. We're going to put them in the show notes in case anyone
recognizes these guys all these years later. But like, who are they? >> So, I won't bring up the John's again,
but is there even a solid connection between these two cases? Detective Rivera doesn't really get to dive into
Marina's case right away, right? Like that didn't happen for him because we know they didn't have the files. They
didn't have anything. It doesn't happen for him till like 2016. This time, even though there's still no one actively
working the case, the sheriff's do pull those case files that Detective Shepard couldn't get access to. And he told us
that after kind of looking at everything, his gut feeling is that these are actually separate cases. He's
not closing the door on a connection between Marina's case and Reed's case. There's always a chance they were killed
by the same person, but with everything he knows, it feels unlikely to him. >> And maybe trying to connect these cases
to the Manson family and like then each other led to like blind spots for police
over the years. So, if we look at them separately, >> what are each of their like individual
theories for each case? if they aren't connected and they are standalone, like what does that what does that even look
like? >> So, in Marina's case, we're for sure side eyeing John. Okay? >> Right? Like, but there are other roads
to go down. Detective Shepard told us Marina's dad apparently had ties to the OSS, like the early version of the CIA
during World War II. And Detective Shepard said that he'd heard rumors or theories that the dad's work might have
somehow led to her murder. >> Uh, what was his work? So I asked our reporter Malikica Dollywal to find out.
It turns out he was training US soldiers in psychological warfare. >> Okay. >> Yes. So he was a journalist and his main
job was to make and distribute Allied propaganda to demoralize Germans, but he also interrogated German PS in one case
for 3 days straight. So he probably made some dangerous enemies along the way. And I would love to go all the way down
this rabbit hole. >> I mean, you see my face, >> but this is this is all we know, though.
Like, again, props to Malikica because you can't even just Google this stuff. Like the CIA started to declassify OSS
records in the 80s and now they're stored in the National Archives like in person.
>> Oh, so you have to like be there to access them, >> right? Which like we are not located
there and we didn't have time to go for the reporting. So, she got creative. I guess some antique dealers sell World
War II letters. And she found an online antique store selling a letter Marina's dad wrote to his superiors detailing
some [music] of his post-war work, which is like wild. Yeah. But here's the thing. All of
that said, according to Detective Shepard, it is probably unrelated cuz to him, and I understand what he's saying,
to him, Marina's murder seems more like a random act of violence, possibly sexually motivated, rather than like a
targeted attack >> to like get to someone else. >> Yes. Now, Marina's stepbrother actually
mentioned one possible suspect that fits in a 1988 LA magazine piece. He claimed
that a detective believed Marina might have been killed by a biker and a drug dealer named Spanky. Cuz interesting
fact, police actually when they found her body, they found an old motorcycle frame at the crime scene and they
actually took the whole thing into evidence. And [music] could they tie this guy to that motorcycle frame?
>> I don't know. Marina's brother didn't say why the detective suspected him. Like in my mind that's like, "Oh, I I
heard motorcycle gang and I know there's that piece there." Like I'm tying that together, but no one
>> ever really does. >> Now, we were able to identify Spanky as a man named Kirk Smith who has a
criminal record a mile long. He would have been about 18 in ' 69 when Marina was murdered. [music] And the first
charge we found on his record was from just a year later in 1970 when he was arrested for narcotics possession
[music] after an LAPD raid. In 1976, this guy escaped prison while serving a 10-year sentence. Don't know what for.
[music] And then he went on to rob 17 banks before being caught and charged with armed robbery. By 1980, he'd escape
again. And while he was in jail, awaiting trial for the attempted murder of other inmates in 1981, he became a
suspect [music] in a beating murder and a stabbing. But wait, there's more. While in prison, he joined the Aryan
Brotherhood. In 1987, he got involved in their conspiracy to murder correctional
officers as revenge for the shooting of another member. Now, we don't know if those were all the charges he faced. We
submitted a foyer request for his full file, but we haven't received that yet. And then he died in 1998, so we can't go
and try and talk to him. One of the most frustrating things kind of across the board that I've felt while
you've been telling me about this is like how we can't get access to anything, but also I feel [laughter]
like we wouldn't need to spiral as much if someone could just get their hands on
her sexual assault kit, which we might. So, from what Detective Rivera remembers, like there is physical
evidence in her case that hasn't [music] been tested yet. Now, is that the sexual
assault kit? Is it something else? I don't know. And I don't know what if anything has been done, will be done, or
could be done. And the question is, do they still have it? >> Because I do know that at some point
there was a pipe burst at the evidence facility. >> And so it's possible that the reason we
haven't seen or heard anything about this is that there's been water damage. Like, we haven't confirmed that with the
sheriff's department because it seems like somehow there still isn't anyone working Marina's case. So, like that's
[music] bad news, but also good news because maybe it is just sitting there and nobody's gone looking for it, but
like we're running out of time and like if someone in the sheriff's office is hearing this, like even just going down
and knowing that that was there that this could be solved, like I [music] beg of you to take 20 minutes. Now, we know
most of the evidence in Reed's case is long gone. Detective Rivera told us that the bloodstained bra has been tested to
death and only Reed's DNA profile has been pulled from it. And he said that Reed's murder, going back to like are
they connected? He just said Reeds felt different. [music] Like it was so personal and so full of rage. Like you
have to be angry to stab someone 150 times. And that's usually the kind of violence Detective Rivera sees when the
attacker is like an intimate partner. Now, both detectives believe the key to solving Reed's case lies in finding
those two Jeans, especially the one that she followed to LA. But maybe like Michelle McNamera's blog, one day this
episode will find the right person who remembers Jean. Now, [music] by this point, Detective Rivera has retired,
too, but he still works Reit's case as a reserve officer on a part-time basis. All of Marina's family and most of
Reed's immediate family who knew her are gone now. So, Detective Rivera is relying on the public, you guys, to come
forward with tips. So, talk to your parents and grandparents. Share this episode, especially if they lived in LA
or Canada at the time. And, you know, like to jog people's memories, contact police [music] if you knew Marina, if
you have information about her boyfriends or anyone who drove a black sedan. If you were with her that night
at the Trouador or saw a black sedan in that area, contact them. If you were on a bus with Reit from Toronto to LA in
the late summer or fall of 1969, or if you worked with Reit at the post office in Toronto and saw her with John, if
you, this is a little bra, but like knew any French Canadian men named Jean or Pierre who lived in LA in ' 69, or if
you lived at the Hollywood Executive Apartments on Melrose Avenue near Paramount Studios in late 1969.
And then there's the option of like, did you go to medical school in Montreal or
Toronto in the late60s and knew somebody who you went to school with who moved to
LA soon after graduation? I know that's a lot, but I'm trying to like add little
nuggets to kind of just jog your memory. But if you have any tips about either of
these cases, I'm going to put the contact information for both jurisdictions in the show notes.
Remember, they're held by a sheriff's office and LAPD. So, please call if you have any information. You can find all
the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkypodcast.com. And if you want to listen to more
episodes like this and all of our episodes completely [music] adfree, be sure to join our fan club. We'll put a
link in the show notes. You'll also get early access to new [music] episodes every week. And you can follow us on
Instagram, Crimey Podcast. We'll be back next week with [music] a brand new episode.

In 1969, 17-year-old Marina Habe and 19-year-old Reet Jurvetson, known for decades only as Jane Doe 59, were murdered just miles apart in Los Angeles. Marina was abducted outside her home and later found stabbed. Reet, who had recently moved from Canada to L.A., was discovered stabbed over 150 times. She remained unidentified for more than 40 years.

When LAPD Detective Cliff Shepard reopened Reet’s case in 2003, he uncovered poorly stored evidence that ultimately led to her identification in 2015 through DNA. Despite chilling similarities between the two murders, investigators now believe Marina’s and Reet’s cases were separate incidents. Both remain unsolved.

Theories have swirled for decades, from possible connections to the Manson Family to elusive suspects known only as “Jean” or “John,” men linked to both Marina and Reet. Cold case detective, Cliff Richards, pitched this to us with a mission: to help surface new insights and hopefully spark new leads. Decades later, with evidence scarce and time slipping away, hope now hinges on the public to help bring answers to two unsolved tragedies.

For even more stories like this one, join the Crime Junkie Fan Club today: https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/fanclub?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=episode_description&utm_campaign=signupfanclub

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Check out these other great crime channels: @kallmekris The Plot Twist Murder No One Saw Coming... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYBF6CQ60DE @KendallRae Killed By Her BEST Friend!? The Unbelievable Case Of Taylor Wright https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWFzCdOwSAs&t=6s @bellafiori The Chilling Case of Michelle Young https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpT9q_5s30&t=5s @annieelise Rampage Ends in Triple Murder | Christian “Kit” Martin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=343hoDX1qfc

Brief Summary

Detective Cliff Shepard investigates the Mahulland Drive murders, linking Jane Doe 59 and Marina Haba's cases while seeking public assistance for cold cases.

Key points

The Mahulland Drive Murders. A detective uncovers a cold case linked to a victim known only as Jane Doe 59.
Detective's Discovery. Detective Shepard finds a bloody bra in the archives, sparking new hope for the case.
The Connection to the Manson Family. Detective Shepard considers a theory linking Jane Doe 59 to the infamous Manson family.
Marina's Mysterious Disappearance. Marina Haba goes missing after a night out, leading to a frantic search.
The Time of Death. Jane Doe's time of death was narrowed down to just hours after her last meal.
The Manson Connection. Investigators explored links between Marina's murder and the Manson family, but found no solid evidence.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This wasn't where she was killed.

Detective's realization about the crime scene.

3:24WatchSep 17, 2025

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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