Finding Sarah and Philip | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

Phoebe Judge: The beginning of this episode has depictions of violence and may not be suitable
for everyone. Teri Knight: Hi, I'm Teri Knight, and two years ago my children Sarah and Philip Gehring,
I don't know if you remember the case? They were murdered. They don't deserve to be buried
on the side of a road. I don't deserve to have them buried on the side of the road,
and we need to find them and bring them home. Phoebe Judge: In 2003, Teri Knight's children,
14-year-old Sarah and 11-year-old Philip, were murdered by their father, Manuel Gehring.
Teri Knight and Manuel Gehring were divorced and in the middle of a custody dispute. The two
children were spending Fourth of July with their father in Concord, New Hampshire.
Instead of returning the children to their mother at the end of the visitation, Manuel Gehring shot
them and crossed several states before burying their bodies. He was arrested one week later in
California and confessed to the murders. He began to try to help investigators find the
children's bodies, but he didn't appear to know exactly where he'd buried them. Law enforcement
transported him in a van across the Midwest, and Gehring tried to describe visual markers,
but they weren't specific. Really just 'somewhere along the Ohio turnpike.' The search was unsuccessful, and Manuel Gehring killed himself awaiting trial.
Teri Knight continued searching for the bodies of Sarah and Philip. She drove 650 miles on Midwestern roads through Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, and Illinois, pleading
with the public along the way to help her. Stephanie Dietrich: She was asking for the
public's help in any type, any way they could do it. Whether they were psychic,
whether they could pour over maps, whether they could drive that route... She would take any help she could get. Phoebe Judge: This is Stephanie Dietrich.
Stephanie has lived in Northeastern Ohio her whole life. She knows the roads and
intersections. And back in 2005, she read about Teri Knight's press conference in her
local paper. It was on the front page. And right then, Stephanie decided she would try to help.
[Music comes in.] Stephanie Dietrich: I didn't know I was supposed to sign up for a search group. I just thought you do what you can,
where you can. And that's what I did. Phoebe Judge: Stephanie Dietrich speaks very practically about the whole thing. Teri Knight asked for the public's help. And as
Stephanie put it, "Am I not the public?" Her own kids were grown and had moved out of the house.
She'd been at her job at Acme Grocery for a long time, and was starting to cut back on her hours.
I asked if she told Teri Knight she was going to start searching, and Stephanie said, "No,
I didn't want to disappoint her." I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. [Music up to full volume for a few seconds.]
Initially, the FBI didn't release a lot of information to the public about where
Manuel Gehring said he'd buried his children's bodies. But when years passed and Teri Knight
had taken her plea directly to the public for help, the FBI decided to release as much of
that information as possible, including a crude map that Gehring had drawn of the location.
Stephanie Dietrich: Well, he gave them a list of about 10 things that they would
find on the property. [Music fades out.] Like a pile of dried firewood. Some slabs of irregular cement. Six-foot tall grass. There
was a pump with a green handle. There was a chain link fence. And when you get out and
start looking for this stuff, it's amazing. The places that have all these same things.
Phoebe Judge: Stephanie thought these markers sounded like they could be in a part of the woods outside Akron she knew pretty well, off Copley Road. She'd often
take her dog out there and walk around. Stephanie Dietrich: Oh my God, this dog.
Phoebe Judge: What was the dog's name? Stephanie Dietrich: Ricco. He was a boxer Rottweiler. Phoebe Judge: Big, or —?
Stephanie Dietrich: Big. 116 pounds of pure muscle. Phoebe Judge: She convinced her family and friends to go out with her and Ricco whenever
they could to help look. And she would call the local police departments often,
giving them tips on where to investigate, pieces of land that she thought looked right.
Stephanie Dietrich: In fact, the FBI did send an evidence recovery team down there.
And we went back that afternoon. I didn't know they'd been there. And I was like,
man, Ricco didn't run through here and make all these tracks through here. And so I called them and they were like, "Yeah, we were there today. It's not the right place."
And I was like, "But did you see this? And did you see this?" And the lady was real snotty. And she
said, "We're telling you it's not the right place. You're welcome to check it yourself." Click.
And then I was pissed. I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. So — Phoebe Judge: The police were giving you a hard time. Why are you doing this, ma'am? This is —
Stephanie Dietrich: Right, right. I mean, they weren't telling me to get off of anybody's
property. There was never any incidents like that. But when you get a man detective they're like,
"Why are you doing this? Are you a prison junkie? Did you write to him in prison? What interest do you have in doing this?" They just didn't understand it.
A lot of people don't understand it. I just think it's the way that some people are wired.
[Music comes in.] People that understand it, understand it. And people that don't, never will. Phoebe Judge:
She started seeking out tips and information from the internet, and would print out any articles she
could find. She put them in a folder and kept them in her car. And these tips, combined with
her knowledge of the area, guided her search. Stephanie Dietrich: I went out to what I thought
was going to be the place and pulled in. And I looked around and see these no trespassing
signs. And that didn't really bother me, and got out with Ricco and just started
walking around because it was property that was owned by a construction company. And
it was just, there was nothing on at the time. We could just poke straight in there.
And basically, I was there so often that the man from the towing company across the
street from that property pulled in in his tow truck one day and asked me if we had
bought it, bought that property. Phoebe Judge: How big of an area were you searching? Stephanie Dietrich:
Well, it was probably an acre, a few acres. But I only stayed in, I mean, maybe a two-acre area. Phoebe Judge: And when you
would look, would you let Ricco lead you on the leash or would you be digging around?
[Music fades out.] Stephanie Dietrich: Ricco, when we would go for walks and stuff, not just looking for these kids, but — either he's watching out for me or I'm
watching out for him, but we don't ever both just wander off. I can't explain it, but I could just
wander anywhere I want to and know that dog had his eye on me. So, I felt safe where I was at.
I would follow anywhere he wanted to go to. Phoebe Judge: And when you were walking around,
would you carry a shovel with you? Would you be digging, or would you just be looking down at the ground? Stephanie Dietrich: I would only dig a
couple shovel-fulls. I mean, I have a note where I stuck it in a hole, that says, "Please don't fill in this hole." And then I gave them the website for,
"If you don't believe what I'm doing here, check this." And I came back and there was a dirt bike
had ridden over my note, but — Phoebe Judge: Because you didn't, you wanted to not have to retrace your steps. Stephanie Dietrich: Right. But I didn't want to
leave somebody's property with big holes in it either. But. Phoebe Judge: Why did you think that Ricco could search? [Chuckles.] I mean,
was he trained in any way to do this? Stephanie Dietrich: No, he just always went
everywhere with me. I mean, everywhere I went, Ricco went. And so, it just made sense that
if I was going to be out outside, you know... Phoebe Judge: You weren't hiding the fact that you
were looking. Your mother knew, your friends knew. Did everyone know that you were out doing this?
Stephanie Dietrich: Yes. Phoebe Judge: Did anyone ever say, "What in the world are you doing? Why are you spending so —?" Stephanie Dietrich: Well, I mean, I pretty much
do whatever I want to anyhow. And it works out for me. I don't get into too much trouble. But
I don't want to offend people. And I don't like, when I go stomping through, breaking down branches or climbing your fence or snipping your —
I try not to leave any trace I was here. Phoebe Judge: They didn't make, no one made
fun of you or got creeped out and said, "Hey, yeah, that's enough. Stop it." None of your family or friends? Stephanie Dietrich: Well,
they were a little worried I was obsessed with it, but... Phoebe Judge: Were you?
Stephanie Dietrich: Oh yeah. Yeah. [Music comes in.] Phoebe Judge: Stephanie began spending more and more time searching on Copley Road. Sometimes she
would take her book and a lawn chair out to a spot she was searching and just sit there for a while
in between her digging, letting Ricco roam around. She started giving away her work shifts at Acme
Grocery, so she'd have more time to search. Stephanie Dietrich: I can remember calling, I
would call... I was supposed to be at work at like 10 a.m. And we went out there eight
o'clock in the morning. I already had my work clothes on and stuff. I called my manager, Jeff,
I said, "Jeff I'm coming in, but I got to go down the FBI first. Okay?" And he's like, "Okay."
Phoebe Judge: By November, she'd been looking for four months, and she started to slow down.
Stephanie Dietrich: We had all been together for Thanksgiving the week before. And somebody asked
me at Thanksgiving if I was still looking for those kids. And I hadn't been out in a while.
And I said, "No, but I got to find them." Phoebe Judge: She'd exhausted every inch of
the woods off Copley Road. She searched other places in the area, but had no luck.
So she moved her search to a new location in Hudson, Ohio, off Terex Road. Stephanie Dietrich: This arctic air was moving in, and the ground was going to freeze,
and I remember my mom called and they were in the middle of a movie. She was like, "Can you
come help me?" I said, "No, mom. I've got to find these kids. Because the ground is going to freeze
and we won't be able to get to it." Phoebe Judge: And will you describe how the new location looked the same or different from Copley? Was it the same idea, a couple acres?
[Music fades out.] Stephanie Dietrich: They both had the six-foot, this grass that grows in Ohio. It's over six feet tall. And then as the fall comes on,
it gets brown at the top. And almost like wheat's in it or something. I don't know.
And I thought it looked pretty good, so I called Hudson Police Department and then the
next morning, I wondered if they were out there. Like, man, did they go out there and check that
out? That's why I went back up there, which was to see if they were doing it. And if they weren't
going to do it, I was going to do it myself. So, they weren't there, so we pull in and park
and whenever we go, we go back to a hundred yards and we start looking around and just the
look on his face. Like, dig right here. And so I went and just stood over him where he was at.
And I knew that the branches to the tree reached down toward the ground as opposed to stretching
up towards the sky. The father had said that. And I looked at this big branch over Ricco and
all the little branches on it were snapped off. And I thought, well, that's too high for
deer to have nibbled those off. Somebody broke those off so they could work in this spot.
And the father had said that there will just exactly room for one vehicle to have backed
in. And I was like, "Oh, Ricco." Just the way he laid down. So I get my little shovel and I dig
in once and my shovel breaks. So we go back the hundred yards to the car and I get another shovel,
and we go back there again. And I dug two good-size shovel-fulls of dirt out, and it was like clumped together. It was all real heavy clay. And I see black plastic and duct tape.
And I don't know if it goes to the left or if it goes to the right, so I move one to the left and
it's still going. There's still black plastic and duct tape. And I move one to the right,
and there's still black plastic and duct tape. [Music comes in.] And I was like, "Oh, Ricco. We got to go get help." I didn't look for anything else. It was
like you know, when you know, when you know. And so we go back down the hundred yards and now it's
getting dark and the snow is starting to come in. And as we get to the car, here comes the
Hudson police officer across the opening. And I was like, "Oh my God, an angel from heaven." And I'm trying to talk to him real fast, and I'm wiping snow off the
back of the trunk of my car. And I've got all these papers that I've copied on.
Phoebe Judge: They walked back to the site and the officer cut a hole in the bag,
which further confirmed what Stephanie thought. Stephanie Dietrich: He called for supervisors,
and they didn't want me to go back there again. And I didn't find it out until later,
but when the supervisors got there they cut the plastic a little more and they saw a little boy's boxers. Phoebe Judge: After five and a half
months of searching, Stephanie Dietrich had somehow managed to do what no one else had been
able to for the last two and a half years: she'd found the remains of Sarah and Philip Gehring.
How did you feel on that ride home — or when you knew that you had found them — how did you feel?
Stephanie Dietrich: I was probably just pretty at peace with it. It's the only thing in my life I've ever started out to do and finished. I swear to God,
I never finish anything. [Music fades out.] And it never occurred to me, I never got discouraged or disgusted, or — it never
occurred to me that I wouldn't find those kids. Ricco just — if I hadn't have had him,
I'd probably, I wouldn't have gone out like that. I mean, I give Ricco all the credit because
he was the reason I was outside, spending time with my dog. He was a little stressed out. In fact, he threw up in the car but — I always told him
what a good boy he was. [Music comes in.] I have a dog now, she's just a dog. It's terrible to have a good dog first and then
just have a dog. Jeff Strelzin: My name is Jeff Strelzin. I'm a senior assistant attorney general and chief of the homicide unit at
the New Hampshire Attorney General's Office. Phoebe Judge: He was the lead prosecutor on the case. Jeff Strelzin: I was able to
meet Stephanie out there at the spot where the children were buried. I have a picture in my
office I'm looking at right now, of myself and the dog Ricco and Detective Flanagan. And we're
both kneeling down at the spot where the children were found with Ricco. And I remember that day
extremely well. I was just, I was amazed that someone had that capability to carry through
with it like she did. And then when I met her, it really made perfect sense to me that she'd be the
person to help us bring Philip and Sarah home. Phoebe Judge: Have you ever heard of a citizen
committing this much time to finding a body? Jeff Strelzin: You know, I haven't. Typically,
people just read stuff online and don't really do things. This is — Stephanie did it. She got out there and then she put her feet to the ground.
She didn't just read stuff online. She actually got out there and looked at places,
and I think that's pretty unique. Phoebe Judge: Do you remember Teri Knight's reaction when the bodies were found? Jeff Strelzin: Relief. Relief because as terrible
as it sounds, people can tell you and we certainly told her why we very much believed that Philip and
Sarah were dead, but until you know for sure, there's that lagging lingering doubt in the
back of your mind: could they be somewhere else? Could he have taken them somewhere?
[Music fades out.] And as much as logic tells you that's not possible, giving her closure was important. We were able to bring her home some personal effects
from the children. And I think that really finally allowed her to have some measure of closure.
[Music comes in.] Phoebe Judge: After word got out that the Gehring children had finally been found, the national media
swooped down on Hudson, Ohio. Stephanie says news cameras were lining her street. Ricco was
given an official K-9 collar by the FBI. And Teri Knight, the children's mother, came to Ohio to
meet Stephanie. She brought a big rawhide bone for Ricco and sat down on the floor to greet him.
We reached out to Teri Knight, but she didn't respond. She did say at the time, "Stephanie Dietrich is the amazing spirit of what we hope people are."
She's now remarried with twin girls. As for Stephanie Dietrich, she still works at Acme
Grocery a couple of days a week. Ricco died two and a half years ago. Throughout our entire
conversation, I kept trying to understand what she was thinking all that time, but she doesn't
think she did anything that special. As she said, she knew the area and thought she could help.
Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer, Nadia Wilson, and me. Audio mix by Rob Byers. Alice
Wilder is our intern. Special thanks to Russ Henry. Julienne Alexander makes original
illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com, or on Facebook
and Twitter, @CriminalShow. Original music in this episode comes from Blue Dot Sessions.
Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We're a proud
member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collection of the best podcasts around. Shows like The
Heart. The Heart is a show about how love and intimacy intersect with our lives every single day. Right now, they're in the middle of a new
series about what exactly we're talking about when we say someone is feminine or
masculine. The series is called "Pansy." [Music fades out and new music fades in.]
[Montage.] Speaker 1: I love the idea of being able to, like on a hot summer's day, wear a skirt. Speaker 2: If I want to wear
a big chunky necklace one day, I will wear it. If I want to paint a nail, I'll do it.
Speaker 3: If it were socially acceptable for me to wear eyeliner, I would absolutely wear
eyeliner. I just like the way it looks. Speaker 4: I would describe myself as an impassioned mother hen who identifies very strongly as male.
Speaker 5: I do twirl. [End of montage.] [Music fades in.] Phoebe Judge: Go listen. Radiotopia from PRX is supported by the Knight Foundation and MailChimp,
celebrating creativity, chaos, and teamwork. And thanks to Adzerk for providing their
ad-serving platform to Radiotopia. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. [Music ends.] Jingle: Radiotopia, from PRX.

In 2010, Michael McIntosh’s son was incarcerated at the Walnut Grove Youth Correctional Facility in the small town of Walnut Grove, Mississippi. One Sunday, Michael McIntosh went to visit his son and was turned away because, he was told, prison officials “did not know” where his son was. He spent the next six weeks searching for his son, only to find him in the hospital with severe injuries. And Michael McIntosh’s son wasn’t the only one who had been hurt at the facility.

Jody Owens, of the Southern Poverty Law Center (https://www.splcenter.org/), launched an investigation and found that Walnut Grove was such a violent prison that one Federal Judge called it “a cesspool of unconstitutional and inhuman acts.” Today, we have the story of an especially troubled youth prison, the for-profit corporation, Cornell Companies, that managed it, and the small town that relied on it.

The U.S. Department of Justice Investigation of the Walnut Grove Youth Correctional Facility: https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2012/04/09/walnutgrovefl.pdf

The Southern Poverty Law Center Lawsuit: https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/d6_legacy_files/downloads/case/cb_v_walnut_grove_complaint.pdf

The U.S. Department of Justice Memo Re: Reducing the Use of Private Prisons: https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/886311/download

Music in the episode: “Highway to the Stars” by Kai Engel “Dropped Ticket” by Blue Dot Sessions “Old Bernie Blues” by David Szesztay “The Caspian Sea” by Blue Dot Sessions “A Calendar Spread” by Blue Dot Sessions “Lacquer Groove” by Blue Dot Sessions “Under the Stairs Instrumental Version” by Josh Woodward “Wahre” by Blue Dot Sessions “In Passage” by Blue Dot Sessions

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. https://link.chtbl.com/n33u0HsA

Say hello on Twitter (@CriminalShow), Instagram (@criminal_podcast), and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ThisIsCriminal/.

Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice https://bit.ly/accomplicenewsletter.

We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery.

Artwork by Julienne Alexander http://www.yssrs.com/.

Check out our online shop https://store.dftba.com/collections/criminal.

Episode transcripts are posted on our website https://thisiscriminal.com/.

Episode 58 originally published 1/6/2017 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-59-in-plain-sight-1-20-2017

Brief Summary

Teri Knight's children were murdered, and Stephanie Dietrich helped find their remains after a long search.

Key points

The Tragic Case of Sarah and Philip Gehring. In 2003, Teri Knight's children were murdered by their father, leading to a desperate search.
Stephanie Dietrich's Determination. A local woman dedicates herself to finding the missing children, driven by compassion and resolve.
The Discovery of the Children's Remains. After months of searching, Stephanie Dietrich uncovers the remains of Sarah and Philip Gehring.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

They don't deserve to be buried on the side of a road.

Teri Knight expressing her grief over her children's burial.

0:07WatchDec 6, 2022

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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