Episode 707: The Tragic Death of Gloria Ramirez | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid with a side of refrigerator cigarette.
[Music] In case you don't know what that is, I don't promote smoking. I do promote Diet
Coke. Yeah, that's that's a thing. People call Diet Cokes a fridge cigarette. >> It's just a meme I saw once.
>> Yeah, that I think that's funny. >> Mhm. I think >> I too think it's funny. >> Strawberries and cream Dr. Pepper. My
fridge cigarettes. >> All right. Well, I think I think Diet Coke is disgusting. You know what? No.
You know which one I do like of the Dr. Pepper ones? >> Um the cream soda one. >> Oh, see. I think that's disgusting.
>> Disgusting. >> Disgusting. But that's funny cuz they were in your fridge when I tried them. You gave me
somebody else like them. >> No, you know why they were in my fridge? >> Tell me.
>> Cuz I think you thought that was the kind I liked and you got them for one of
your gettogethers and then you gave me the rest of them and I felt bad. >> It's my fault. You know why those are in
my refrigerat? Because my refri my refrigerat. >> You know why those are in my refrigerator? Because of you.
>> No. And that's No, cuz you were doing a kind you were doing a kindness and then
I did a kindness back >> by taking them and not saying like those are not the ones I like
>> until now. >> Until now like a year later. >> You little you little cuz I really don't
like those. But you you drank them. >> I like them. >> And I think Aiden drank some. So worked
out worked out for me. >> Drink drank drunk. >> Drank it. Uh yeah. What else is this new
brother man? Uh, you guys sold out the Sunday show in under four minutes. You're outrageous. I It's insane. Like,
who are you? Here's the thing. Um, there are tickets being resold. That has nothing to do with us. We get a proposal
with how many seats and we say, "Yeah, that price sounds fair." And then people can buy them and do whatever the [ __ ]
they want with them, which sucks. I realize >> it sucks a giant ass, >> but we have nothing to do with that.
Yeah. So, if you see tickets that are like >> astronomical priced, it's even on the
Wilbur website because you have to look under the thing and it'll say verified resale ticket. That tells you that
someone's trying to resell that ticket. >> Yeah. >> Uh cuz there's like balcony seats that
are sitting there right now for like $1,200. Whoever did that, go [ __ ] yourself.
>> But like that's that's not us, you know? We're not out here charging [ __ ] >> No. And that's how it works. We
literally get a proposal with each seat and how much money it should cost. And we actually went back a couple times and
were like, "Ah, let's be like a little more fair." >> We would never do that to you. No.
>> So, so anyway, but I there was just a couple people that were concerned that we were like trying to
>> concerned that we thought >> we were out here thinking we're like Sabrina Carpenter or something. So, I'm
not >> I wish. And also those like those tickets that people are concerned about,
those aren't like we're not >> like the resale tickets. >> Whoever's selling those tickets, if
somebody buys them, they get that money. So >> yeah, >> we're not profiting off of that in any
way. >> It's just crazy. >> It's a wild world. >> Yeah, people people are are getting
rougher and rougher out here in these streets. But you know what? You're all great. You're all that matters.
>> You're all fan freakingastic. Yeah, we just like it was only a couple people that like even noticed it and were so
and mentioned it, but we just didn't want anybody thinking that we were out here trying to sell tickets for like
$700 and [ __ ] >> No. >> Uh, that's crazy. [ __ ] crazy. Um, but yeah. So, so that's stupid um stupid of
people to do. >> I think that's really our only bit nasty though. >> I know. I think that is. I like that
I've officially named our business um segment Bid Nasty. >> That's pretty fun in my opinion. of
nasty >> and that commences been nasty. >> Yeah, cuz I don't think there's anything
else that really has come up. >> No, >> that that you guys need to [ __ ] know about.
>> You know, >> don't forget um we lied. Biden nasty over >> more nasty. >> Don't forget uh tomorrow actually cuz I
think this is Thursday's episode. >> I was going to say look at look at me. She looked at me she looked at me first
like I know I was just like she looked at me blankly and shook her head. I just went, "Oh, no. I don't I don't know
those things." >> So, today is Thursday for you. It's what? Tuesday for us. So, we're not even
that far apart. Don't worry. We're not getting back into craziness. But anyway, Friday is going to be our bonus episode
where we are going to talk about >> um Unknown Number, the high school catfish scandal, which I actually last
night me and Drew were watching TikTok together and people have been filming their reactions when they find out who
the catfish is. Oh, yeah. >> And I need you all to please do that if you don't know.
>> Oh, hell yeah. If you somehow don't know who the catfish is at this point, you
got to film yourself watching it because your reaction will be insane. >> I've been spoiled. I already know.
>> I got spoiled ahead of time. >> So, I won't do it, but you guys should definitely do it.
>> I got spoiled ahead of time, but even still >> still shocking. >> Well, even still shocking. And also, I
was like, well, I don't know, you know, I didn't know exactly. >> Yeah. >> But we won't we'll talk about it on
Friday. >> We'll talk about it on Friday. Yeah. Aka tomorrow if you're listening on
Thursday. >> Yeah. All right. So, that wraps up Bit Nasty. Uh now Bid nasty is done. Pinky
swear. Let's go girls. Uh today we are going to be talking about a very interesting case. Um and one that so
we're going to be talking about Gloria Ramirez. Um you might see her referred to sometimes as the toxic woman, which
is shitty. >> Not great to do that. Um, it's it's really not >> great to name somebody that.
>> After you hear the story, you'll understand why like that's, you know, and her family does not want her to be
>> known as the toxic woman. >> Yeah. >> Um, that's who who would want that, you
know? So, >> so we will not be calling her the toxic woman, but I just wanted in case you had
seen it that that's the same Gloria Ramirez. Um, this this story is wild. I know like I know of this story but I
don't know all the details. >> Very interesting. Very tragic. >> Yeah. >> Very scary.
>> Yeah. >> Uh so let's start. Uh within hours of Gloria Ramirez taking um an unexpected
visit to the ER in 1994, medical personnel who you know rushed to her aid that evening became sick with symptoms
that are typically associated with like insecticide poisoning. >> Oh [ __ ] like very strange like tremors,
apneoa, burning skin like randomly. So like if you like ingested like raid or something.
>> Yeah. And like several of these people, several of these like medical personnel
required hospitalization themselves because of it. >> Oh. And in the days and weeks after
this, the doctors and nurses who came into direct contact with Ramirez continued to experience these crazy
bizarre symptoms. They were defying logical explanation at this point and they were leaving everyone wondering how
had this seemingly ordinary woman's body been transformed into some kind of like
Trojan horse of toxicity. That's what that's essentially what they were saying. Like what happened here? Like
>> cuz initially they had no idea. >> They had no idea. They didn't know what they had gotten into. And honestly the
the symptoms and things that were happening were like associated with chemical warfare essentially.
>> What? >> Yeah. It's wild. So, let's start at the beginning. >> It's the best place to start.
>> It always is. On the evening of February 19th, 1994, Gloria Ramirez complained to
her boyfriend Johnny Estrada that she was having some trouble breathing, which is scary.
>> Yeah. >> She was only 31 years old. She was a mother of two, but she had been
diagnosed with advanced stage cervical cancer about 6 weeks before this. >> Oh, wow. So, she was actually scheduled
to begin some pretty aggressive chemotherapy the following Tuesday, but obviously this night things took a
pretty alarming turn. And so, when she started to say, "I'm having trouble breathing." This was It should never be
something that's ignored, but getting that diagnosis, it made it even scarier. >> Yeah, of course.
>> Um, and she actually ended up collapsing. Like, she told her boyfriend, "I h something's wrong." And
then she collapsed. >> Oh, that's so scary. Johnny called the paramedics and they got there really
quickly and she was very quickly transported to Riverside General Hospital and this is in California.
>> Okay. >> Uh she was admitted at about 8:15 p.m. and taken to trauma unit 1. Emergency
staff assessed the whole situation. Everybody was moving at a rapid pace, but by the time she arrived there, her
breathing had gotten way worse. It was super shallow, really quick, and it was causing her blood pressure to fall
really, really rapidly. >> That's so scary. >> So, in just trying to determine what the
cause of all of this was, doctors and nurses questioned Gloria as best they could, right?
>> Uh, but by this point, she was barely conscious and she was only able to really provide some short answers and
most of them were kind of unintelligible and frankly unhelpful at this point. >> Yeah. She's not like totally with it at
this point. >> Yeah. So the doctors and nurses, the whole staff were questioning the
paramedics as well who transported Gloria. All they knew was that they had been told by Johnny Estrada that her
name is Gloria Ramirez. She's 31 years old and she was recently diagnosed with cervical cancer. So the attending
medical staff started treatment and they started by injecting a combination of bzzoazipines,
Valium, Versid, and Adavan. >> Oh wow. >> That was to sedate Gloria. >> Yeah, I would think so.
>> Obviously. and followed by more injections of lidocaine and an anti-arithmic called bratilium to
stabilize the irregular heartbeat that was happening. >> Okay. >> Um so the drugs started working their
way through her system and in the in the meanwhile nurse Moren Welch began performing mouthto-mouth resuscitation
with an ambu bag. This is >> cuz she was starting to really go >> intense. >> It is it it's like one of those intense
medical scenes that you're picturing in your head. It was like something from the pit.
>> Exactly. That's exactly what it is. And the combination of the drugs and this
forced air should have been enough to stabilize Gloria's situation at least for a brief period of time. Um, you
know, just trying to so they could collect some more information even just to move forward.
>> But when it became clear she wasn't responding to the treatment at all, medical staff began preparing to shock
Gloria's heart back into a normal rhythm with a defibrill. >> [ __ ] >> It was just going to hell. like
everything was going haywire. >> And she's 31 years old. >> 31 years old. >> Jesus.
>> 31 years old. And the first indication that something was a miss came when the
nurse cut away Gloria's t-shirt to try to apply the electro electrodes. And she found that the woman's body was like
covered in what looked like an oily sheen, like an oily substance, >> like you put like Vicks on your chest or
something. >> Yeah. Like But one nurse described it as like an oil slick. Um, she said like you
see on the ground of a gas station. >> Oh, you know, like that kind of sheen, which is different.
>> Yeah. I was like, so not like on your chest. >> Yeah. It was then that the medical staff
noticed a faint odor coming from Gloria's body. What they thought was probably coming from Gloria's body that
some would later describe as fruity, while others said it smelled more like garlic.
>> It's always sickly sweet. to me how people can smell things differently or see things differently
>> or it's like just different notes of this odor >> hit someone different >> someone more like like someone's going
to sit there and say well it was sickly sweet like garlic and it's like they get
the note of garlic somebody else is like fruit >> it's like when you see people do like a
wine tasting and they're like I'm getting notes of sandalwood >> yeah it's like and then you're drinking
it and you're like I'm getting notes of uh grape >> grape sour grape grape >> now by the time by the time this was all
going on, Gloria was in full cardiac arrest. Full cardiac arrest. And there was no time to linger over this kind of
odd discovery that they had all just come across. >> Yeah. They're like, "We'll get
>> put a pin in that." So medical staff continued the life-saving protocols and following the defibrillation, nurse
Susan Kaine swabbed Gloria's arm and inserted the catheter, then attached the syringe to try to draw blood. Once the
vial was filled, Cain handed it to Morin Welch. It's important that you're getting this um transfer of like the
chain of custody essentially of everything so you can it'll be important later. Um so again, Susan Kane swabbed
Gloria's arm, inserted the catheter, >> took the syringe, drew the blood, and then she handed it to Moren Welch, the
nurse, who immediately noticed that the blood smelled of ammonia. >> Oh. Welch passed the vial off to medical
resident Julie Gorchinski, who in addition to the unusual ammonia smell, noticed there appeared to be quote
manila colored particles floating in the blood. >> Oh, >> they were probably all like, "What the
[ __ ] is going on?" >> Yeah. >> So, moments after the blood sample was collected, trauma unit one was plunged
further into chaos, if you can even believe it. >> I was like, "Yeah, how?" As he continued
his attempt to stabilize Gloria Ramirez, Dr. Alberto Ooa heard someone shout, "Catch her. Catch her. Catch her." Okay.
Turning to see what >> is on a table. >> So turning to see where the [ __ ] that's
coming from. Ooa just barely managed to catch Susan Kain. >> Okay. >> Under the arms as her legs gave out and
she dropped to the floor. >> She like lost consciousness. >> Yeah. just like passed out.
>> Okay. >> Kane had just been removed from the room on a gurnie when Gorchinsky began to
feel nauseous. And these are all the people that were doing all the medical. Yeah.
>> Feeling as though she was going to be sick, she excused herself from the room
and went to sit down at the nurses station. But she wasn't there for long before she too slumped to the floor and
started exhibiting symptoms of apnea. >> She was intermittently twitching and shaking. Oh my god. And then she would
stop breathing for several seconds. What the [ __ ] Like picturing this scene from beginning
to now even. And it's it's going to keep going. >> It feels like something out of a
television show. >> It doesn't You would see this happening in a show and be like, "Calm the [ __ ]
down everybody." Like something out of like er like so dramatized, you know? >> But even er you'd be like,
>> "No." I know. Exactly. >> Like you'd be like, "Guys, this is not this doesn't make sense."
>> Yeah. >> This is No. No. It actually feels like something out of house. Yeah.
>> You know when like crazy [ __ ] goes down in House and they're like and then he
goes to the bottom >> diseases. This is a house episode >> which I [ __ ] love that show. House is
a great I haven't seen that in forever. >> Great show. >> Yeah. This is cuz like we're going from
and it's all so sudden. That's the thing. It's like all happening very quickly. Like
>> poor Gloria. >> It's just six weeks ago diagnosed and then immediately feels a little
shortness of breath. passes out cold at her house, is rushed to the hospital, and right when she gets there, she goes
into cardiac arrest. They're trying to do like mouthto mouth trying to defi defibrillate her heart back
>> and now everybody starts dropping like flies. Like >> it just won't stop. I don't I feel like
I would run out of that hospital crying. I don't like that's a lot. Now, back in
trauma unit one, Moren Welch, >> another person who handled the vial, was the third person affected.
>> She later said, "I remember hearing someone scream." And she said, "And then she passed out."
>> When Welch regained consciousness, she no longer had control over her arms and
legs. >> What? >> Yep. >> Yep. No. >> Moments after that, the entire emergency room at Riverside General was evacuated.
>> Yeah. I was waiting for that >> cuz like what the [ __ ] going on? And medical staff continued treating
patients in the parking lot. Holy canoli. Well, and I quote, "Hazardous materials materials collectors dressed
in protective clothing tested the air in the emergency room for dangerous gases."
Cuz that would be my first thought. I'd be like, "This is a gas leak." Like something's up here
>> really bad is in this ventilation system and we're all [ __ ] breathing it in
right now. [Music] So, in trauma unit one, Gloria's condition continued to worsen as all
this was going on with her blood pressure dropping at an alarming rate. And despite their efforts to stabilize
her, and this is just so tragic, amid all of this, Gloria Ramirez died at 8:50 p.m. from what an autopsy would later
identify as kidney failure brought on by cervical cancer. >> Oh wow. So she died as a result of that
>> six weeks earlier and died. >> That is wild. >> And it's like she got in there at 8:15
p.m. and was dead by 8:50. >> Wow. >> When as all around her people are just chaos,
>> but they're also at the same time their absolute best. >> Oh, it's awful. It's so tragic all the
way around. >> Oh, she's so young. And she you said she had two children. >> She's a mother.
>> That's awful. >> Now, once Dr. Ooaha had pronounced Gloria dead, her body was sealed into an
airtight um bag and moved to an isolated room in the hospital because again, they
don't know what's Yeah. >> Among those who helped move the body was ER nurse Sally Baldderas, who had been
in trauma unit one and helped to collect the blood sample from Gloria. Once she'd
returned to the parking lot after moving Gloria to where she needed to be, Baldderas felt ill and then started
wretching and complaining of quote a burning sensation on her skin. >> Oh, >> and then she too needed emergency
medical attention. >> This is like the fourth or fifth person at this point. In total, 23 of the 37 members of the
emergency department who worked the night Ramirez was brought in complained of experiencing at least one symptom.
Whoa. 23 of the 37 members of the emergency department. Is that like mass hysteria? Like Well, that's one of the
that was one of the thoughts that people had, >> but cuz I'm like that's an insane amount
of people who weren't even in the room. This is also too though, >> it's like >> people are experiencing real symptoms.
Yeah. >> Like this, you know, they're not just like, >> you know, Salem witch trial style like
throwing themselves saying they see like monkeys on the wall and stuff like >> they're experiencing like actual medical
emergencies, >> which is wild. >> Yeah. Now, Baldderez, whose symptoms were initially described as little more
than a headache, required a 10day hospital stay to treat the symptoms of apnea she began experiencing after
exposure. >> So, that's another person with apnea. >> Yeah. Susan Kaine also continued to
experience apnea in the days following and was hospitalized at Corona Regional Medical Center until her uh symptoms
subsided 3 days later. >> I wonder if they renamed that place. >> I know. I was thinking that, too. I was
like, woof. But also, holy [ __ ] Yeah, by far the most the most affected from the exposure to Gloria Ramirez was Dr.
Julie Gorgjinsky who suffered a number of serious symptoms and even underwent surgery on her knees several weeks later
to treat avascular necrosis >> which is a condition where the bones that make up the joints begin d
basically dying for lack of blood circulation. >> Like necrosis what the [ __ ] Gorchinsk's
other symptoms included hepatitis, pancreatitis, and quote chest seizing muscle spasms and breathing relapses
that necessitated use of a respirator. Holy [ __ ] I just keep saying that, but like
>> she was only 33 >> experiencing all this and she couldn't draw a full breath for like months after
exposure. >> And so the what was the thing called that she was had the necrosis thing?
avascular necrosis. So like her the nerves in her knees were dying off. The bones that make up the joints start
dying from lack of blood circulation. Holy. And she's 30 something years old. >> 33.
Like is she going to be able to use her legs? >> Mhm. Now among the more baffling
elements of the case, at least in the earlier days of this whole investigation, because now they're like,
"What the [ __ ] happened here?" >> Yeah. was that the paramedics who transported Glory to Riverside General,
who'd presumably been in close contact with her body, experienced none of the symptoms present among the ER staff.
>> I just pulled my head back and went to the side like, huh? >> This led investigators from Riverside
County agencies and Cal OSHA to focus their attention on the hospital itself, believing that something was circulating
in the hospital, possibly in the ventilation system. Because a lot of times like in the and I don't know
obviously what happened here but like a lot of times they're like putting oxygen
on you like that close that close. >> I mean they were doing all the things she was in full
>> Yeah. >> Like >> she was in very much stress on her way to cardiac arrest in the in the
ambulance. So they were doing a hell of a lot. >> And think about a trauma unit compared
to the like the size of that compared to an ambulance back of an ambulance and a
closedin probably not that well ventilated space. That's why they're thinking it has to do with the
ventilation in the hospital. >> Yeah. >> In fact, this wasn't the first time Riverside General had trouble with toxic
fumes. >> That's like not something you want on your Yelp reviews. >> You don't want like one that says toxic
fumes, let alone multiple. One time having toxic fumes is like >> too many. Yeah.
>> You know? >> Yeah. In 1991, so only a couple of years before this, two employees required
treatment for exposure to what was believed to be a toxic gas leak from a sterilizer. The [ __ ] Not a sterilizer
leaking toxic fumes. >> Just one year later, a federal inspection discovered that algae growing
in the water in a water reservoir >> was also causing issues. >> Babe, we got algae.
>> We got algae. And a year after that, an inspection found the emergency room was
permeated with sewer gas from a drain. >> That can kill you. >> Sewer gas will [ __ ] kill you.
>> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Not sewer gas in the Don't you tell me there's more. Is there another comma
there? >> No. >> Okay. I mean, let alone Jesus Christ. >> We got enough commas. J. So, the hazmat
team began by searching for a variety of toxins capable of causing the symptoms that the hospital staff were dealing
with, particularly hydrogen sulfide, which is an insidious poison that smells like rotten eggs and at high
concentrations can kill a person after one or two whiffs. >> Insidious. >> Insidious. People who go into hazmat are
just like straight up heroes. >> Yeah. >> Like imagine like risking your [ __ ] like
that. >> I know. and fast gene, a chemical commonly used in the creation of organic chemical
compounds, but one that can also be used to create um a chemical weapon. >> Oh, good.
>> Yeah. Don't write that down. Uh it tears open capillaries in the lungs, drowning
its victims in their own blood. >> Oh, that is like chemical warfare. >> Chemical weapons
>> are the scariest thing in the entire universe. sound made up. >> No, they do. It sounds like something
out of like a futuristic novel. >> I'm horrified right now. >> So, where Hazmat team is looking for
hydrogen sulfide, insidious poison that smells like rotten eggs and can kill you
with a couple whips uh whips or faz gene, which is literally something that will tear open capillaries in your lungs
and drown you in your blood. >> Fortunately, neither was found at the hospital. >> Well, that's that's uh really fantastic
news. So, in addition to the negative results from the tests looking for toxins in the air, the theory that those
affected had been exposed to something circulating in the vents or other hospital symptoms, while certainly like
a reasonable theory, was undermined by other obvious factors. For one, Dr. Ooa, who'd probably spent more time with
Gloria Ramirez than anyone else, >> was totally fine, never experienced any ill effects from exposure to Gloria's
body. >> Interesting. And that is like something you need to understand. He was closest,
probably spent the most time and he did not experience anything from Gloria Ramirez's body.
>> Also, if something had been circulating in the vents or the water supply there,
>> it almost certainly would have affected more than just those working in the ER.
It would have also affected patients and visitors >> because it's not just like the only
people in the ER are the people working there. There's a ton of civilians walking around.
>> Well, and even probably other areas of the hospital, too. It's not always just
one building. I don't know, maybe it is in this case. >> So, because of that, investigators
returned to the only lead they had, which was Gloria Ramirez's body, might have had something going on,
>> which I understand needing to like check all the boxes. >> Oh, yeah. I don't think anybody faults
them for having to look at that as an option. So, after several delays, the autopsy of Gloria Ramirez took place on
February 25th, and from the start, it was clear that it was going to be anything but a typical autopsy.
>> Okay. Working in a specially sealed room, the 90-minute autopsy was conducted by a team of four
pathologists, all dressed in airtight toxinproof safety suits. >> How long does a typical autopsy take?
>> Honestly, it can take it varies. That's the thing. 90 minutes is like sure. >> Like it really depends on like
>> so many factors in an autopsy. If it's a complete autopsy, if it's a keep, if
it's a return, like keep the organs for research or you're returning them to the body. Uh if it's
if it includes the the head, like if it's a neuro case, if they want, you know, the spinal cord taken out, if they
want, you know, uh bone marrow taken, say they want >> so many things, >> for lack of a better term, like the
works. How long does that take? >> That could take hours. >> Okay, so this one isn't really insanely
long. This is this is pretty this is a pretty decent one I would say. Like this is and again somebody very skilled and
capable can probably do a complete one in in less time than I probably could. >> And like when you were performing them
how many people were working at the same time is four people working on the same
body kind of crazy. >> Pathologists is a lot of pathologists to have in the room but I understand why
they did it in this case because if it's a I've never worked with four pathologists on an autopsy. How many
would you typically >> Usually I was only alongside one and if it was a neuro case maybe two because it
was like a neuropathologist with us >> and is like the doctor, right? Like they're like the medical examiner.
>> They're the the specialists. >> I see. >> Um so four pathologists like that's a
lot. >> Yeah. Unless it's like they unless they you know maybe confuse four pathologists
with a couple of texts too, but I could see why they would have four pathologists here cuz what the [ __ ]
going on, you know? Like that. >> But also at the same time, I'm like, if this is coming from Gloria's body, which
it sounds like it's probably not, uh, for pathologist, like you want to take all those people out.
>> I know. >> You want to take out all those pathologist? >> Well, they're wearing their safety
suits. They're wearing the PE required, I guess. So, that's good. They're wearing like like
>> airtight toxinproof safety suits. >> Kind of like what you wore during during
CO. >> Well, I was just going to say during CO, we wore those. >> I remember seeing you in your full garb.
>> It's crazy. And it sucks. like you're sweat very necessary won't ever knock it
but damn you sweat in those you sweat and it's hard to do things and it's like you don't get to be as precise as you
want to be cuz you're in this really bulky thing and >> we had like special like bubbles like
plastic bubbles that would go over the person's head so you had to like reach into the bubble to do the the brain
removal and it was not great. >> Wow. >> Yeah. CO was a [ __ ] time for for uh autopsies. It's a [ __ ] time for
autopsies. And you're also just a wild [ __ ] >> This is the moral wild [ __ ] You're
like, we'd have to reach into the bubble to do the brain. Like she's just like, I'll take a medium iced regular. Like,
oh, okay. Totally. It was crazy. >> Damn. I know. Like I said, you're a wild bridge.
>> It's pretty standard otherwise, but like you're not. >> You had a bubble in some crazy suit and
it's harder. >> Uh, but yeah. So although the situation that occurred in the year was highly
unusual, it was in fact not the first time it had happened also. Um so like everybody going down like that. Well,
several years earlier, emergency room workers in Perth, Australia were kind of similarly affected to a less dramatic
extent, I will say. Uh during the examination of a man who had uh killed himself by ingesting weevil poison.
>> Oh [ __ ] >> Yeah. With that in mind, so there there was some kind of precedent for this. I
won't say it's a direct >> precedent, but there is some kind of precedent. Yeah,
>> with that in mind, the pathologists expected to find something in Gloria Ramirez's body that could wreak similar
havoc, like an organo phosphate pest pesticide, but neither the search of her apartment or the autopsy turned up any
chemicals like that. >> Okay. Also, although she had been diagnosed with the advanced stage cancer
only recently, she hadn't started chemotherapy and had only been taking copazine, a drug used to control nausea.
>> Okay. >> So, she wasn't even on any like the crazy like chemo drugs, you know what I
mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> As the evidence collected during the autopsy was being analyzed, Gloria's
body was put back into airtight storage and county officials continued the investigation. The family, meanwhile,
was left in kind of a limbo state, which must have been really hard. They still had no explanation for what the [ __ ] had
happened. >> And with the investigation still open, they couldn't bury Gloria and and start
the grieving process. >> That was tough. And I imagine that like somebody was like close by when all the
chaos was happening in the ER. And that must have been really traumatic. >> That must have been really traumatic.
Now, by midappril, the Ramirez family hired an attorney and filed a request for a court order that would allow for
an independent pathologist to conduct another autopsy. Good for them. >> Also, others in the Riverside community
started to wonder whether the county's refusal to release their findings or update the public was perhaps an
indication of a cover up. >> That was them wondering that, saying that's what it was.
>> I could see why people would be curious like that. Uh, Robert Schwarz, an environmental attorney, told the LA
Times, "The county is destroying the single most important piece of evidence. They're destroying Gloria Ramirez's
remains by having delayed things this long." Tom Dantis, a representative from Riverside County, responded to the
public pressure and said, "This investigation isn't as simple as testing a hypothesis by checking for the
presence of a particular chemical. The testing that is being performed is designed to rule out the thousands of
possible chemical compounds and narrow the focus of the investigation. You can kind of see both sides here.
>> Yeah, you really can. But he and but he couldn't provide any additional information at that time.
>> But it's also like if you don't have the answer, what do you have to say? Yeah.
Now, while the county struggled under increasing pressure from the public, the evidence and samples collected from the
autopsy were sent to the forensic science center at the Lawrence Liverour National Laboratory, which is a former
nuclear weapons production and testings lab that was transformed and rebranded in the early 90s to focus on, you know,
areas of natural sciences. >> Okay. The technicians at the forensic science center had expected to find the
culprit in gases contained in the headsp space of the containers, if not in the liver itself. But all they found was
nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and argon. Normal constituents of air. >> Yeah.
>> Just nothing out of the ordinary. >> Right. Among the mysteries the technicians at the lab were able to
solve though was the ammonia smell that many of the emergency room personnel noticed emanating from Gloria's body and
the blood that was taken. >> According to Brian Anderson, a director at the forensic science center, the odor
was most likely caused by Gloria's body breaking down that anti-nausea medication that she was taking at the
time. >> Oh, okay. That's interesting. >> That is interesting. Ultimately, the team at the center was able to identify
and explain many of the unusual compounds found in the blood and tissue samples submitted by the county. In
fact, the only thing Anderson and his team couldn't explain was the heavy presence of dimethyl sulfone, which is a
naturally occurring chemical compound found in everything from plant and marine life to food and beauty products.
Oh, okay. As far as Anderson knew, this compound was a relatively harmless chemical, and it really couldn't have
caused the damaging effects that people in the ER were suffering from that night. So, he returned to the Riverside
Coroner's office and reported his findings, confirming that no toxins were found in Gloria Ramirez's body. So,
anyone calling her the toxic woman is [ __ ] stupid. >> It's not real. Exactly. [Music]
So the technicians at the forensic science center had done as thorough an analysis as possible in 1994. So
Anderson's findings were more or less the final word. Despite having no explanations for what had happened at
Riverside General, county officials were confident there was no existing threat at the hospital. And the strange case of
Gloria Ramirez was effectively clo closed, at least as far as the county was concerned.
>> Okay. >> The coroner's office released the body to the family in late April. And Gloria
Ramirez was buried at uh Olivewood Cemetery in Riverside on April 27th, 1994, >> almost two full months after she passed
away. Like that's tough on that family. So, if Riverside County officials had hoped that releasing Gloria's body would
put an end to the chaos and the mystery surrounding this case, they were definitely disappointed in the weeks
after that. >> Yeah, the family still pressed the coroner's office for answers, rightfully
so. That and they were unfortunately never going to really get any. And in August, Dr. Gorchinsky filed a $6
million lawsuit against Riverside General Hospital, alleging that conditions at the hospital and failure
of safety protocols had left her with more than one debilitating condition preventing her from working. And she was
a 33year-old doctor, >> right? >> According to her lawyer, Russell Cuzman, the suit was filed in part to compel the
hospital and the county to release whatever information they had related to the case. He said later to reporters,
"Clearly, she's the victim of some kind of toxic poisoning. The question is where did it come from and who is
responsible?" Now, officials from the county and Riverside Hospital immediately took a
defensive position, contracted contacting the California Department of Health and Human Services to undertake a
study to determine the cause of the symptoms. So, they were like, "We're going to try to figure this out." After
reviewing the medical information from most of those affected by it that night and interviewing 34 of the staff members
working at the hospital that evening, the DHS concluded the symptoms experienced by those who came in contact
with Gloria was a case of mass psychoggenic illness, a situation in which symptoms of physical illness are
experienced by large groups of people for psychological reasons. >> Right. That's kind of what I was
thinking. >> Exactly. Now, although the study allowed for the possibility that a small number
of those affected, particularly those who came in close contact with Gloria Ramirez's body, were quote exposed to a
poisonous substance, they did not know the origin of the poison. It's important to note that mass psychoggenic illness
tends to be applied with bias, though, and is ascribed far more often to women than it is to men.
>> Um, and >> a lot of women went down. >> That's kind of the case here. Yeah. Now,
so, so maybe it wasn't necessarily that is what you're kind of implying. >> Nobody. Yeah. Nobody really knows here.
So, as one would expect, the county's official explanation of mass psychoggenic illness was uh poorly
received. >> I bet, especially by those directly affected. When Riverside ER nurse Moren
Welch read the report, she went to the Forensic Science Center and implored Anderson to take a second look at the
case cuz she was like, "This is bullshit." Yeah. And I mean, you can kind of understand why people thought
that just because this is like such an insane case. >> Yeah, of course. But the people who
experienced it are pissed. >> Exactly what I was just going to say. Now, upon review, it was discovered that
what was initially identified as dimethyl sulfone, remember the like the thing that wouldn't have caused issues
in a lot of cosmetics and everything. Yeah. >> Was in fact dimethyl suloxide or DMSO.
The only difference between those two chemicals is that DMSO has one oxygen atom, not two. So that changes a
compound completely. >> Yeah. >> Oh god, not physics. >> Let's talk about it. >> Chemistry. Lol.
>> I was like, no, it's not. In fact, >> I was like I was like chemistry. I was bad at both.
>> Fortunately, it's not physic. But unfortunately, it is chemistry. >> Organic chemistry, in fact. Boo. So
since the 1960s, DMSO has been sold as a gel solvent used in industrial cleaning
products. >> What? >> But it's also used by some as a kind of folk remedy for pain relief
>> and its occasional use in the treatment of interstatial cyitis, excuse me, a condition causing painful urinary tract
lesions in women. >> Ouch. The presence of DMSO would explain the oily sheen discovered on Gloria
Ramirez's body, assuming that she may have used it for pain relief, >> like a topical pain relief,
>> right? Because she's >> This would also This would also explain the aroma of garlic described by several
of the workers present in the room with Ramirez because these are both hallmarks
of this product. >> Oh wow. I mean, I love the smell of garlic. >> I do too. But I don't love a toxic
thing. >> The presence of DMSO alone didn't explain the symptoms supposedly caused
by exposure to Gloria though. Okay, that alone. >> It was only when Anderson checked the
chemical index text to review DMSO that he noticed an adjacent entry for a different chemical that seemed the most
likely explanation for what had caused the medical mystery surrounding the death of Gloria Ramirez.
>> Okay. >> Dimethyl sulfate. We have we there's so many dimethyls. There is in most cases
dimethyl sulfate is used in small quantities in the manufacturing. You see I'm like you're nerding out so
hard over there. >> I have my finger up. She's like in most cases with her little pointer finger.
I'm like hey I just wanted to point out I have I could see your face immediately
when my finger went up. I was like think it's so funny. So in most cases, figure
it up again. Dimethyl sulfate is used in small quantities in the manufacturing of
dyes, perfumes, and certain drugs. But the chemical has an unpleasant history as one of the main components of this
thing called nerve gas used in chemical warfare. >> Not not more chemical warfare,
>> like dyes, perfumes, certain drugs. Oh, also nerve gas. >> Nerve gas. I'm thinking that whole thing
that the after experience or kind of legit, >> huh? >> Or >> Yeah. Uh kind of very unpleasant history
for sure. In vapor form, dimethyl sulfate can quote kill the cells in exposed tissues such as the eyes, mouth,
and lungs. >> Yeah. When absorbed into the body, dimethyl sulfate causes convulsions,
delirium, paralysis, coma, and delayed damage to the kidneys, liver, and heart. >> Did somebody have kidney failure?
>> Um uh Gloria did. >> Oh, Gloria did. Okay. Given its uses and the knowledge and skill required to
handle it, no one suspected dimethyl sulfate in the case of Gloria Ramirez cuz that's like [ __ ] chemical
warfare. Like no. After all, why would like a mother of two, housewife, just normal everyday human being? Why would
she have come in contact with such a volatile chemical? >> Yeah. >> Like where would she have come in
contact with that? >> I don't know. But just as dimethyl sulfone can be transformed into dimethyl
uh the DMSO yes compound with the addition of just one oxygen molecule doesn't take a lot to transform it.
Dimethyl sulfate can be created by adding one more oxygen model molecule to DMSO. Oh,
>> so it's very it's so delicate. Yeah. And it transforms a fairly innocuous chemical into a literal toxic gas
capable of killing a person >> like that. That's so scary. One extra oxygen molecule.
>> That reminds me of an uh episode of Below Deck where I forget which >> I'm very interested to see.
>> No, it's actually funny. I forget which Chief Stew it was and which like lower
stew it was, but she kept mixing cleaning products that they were telling her not to mix.
>> Oh, [ __ ] no. She was like, "You're literally going to create mustard gas and blow the boat up
and it's so easy to do." >> Yeah. They were like, and they told her a couple times and finally she had to go
to the captain. She was like, "Ah, hey." >> Yeah. It's like, "Sorry, >> you have to be," and I'm telling you
right now, be so careful with that [ __ ] >> When you are cleaning, do not mix [ __ ]
Have a open window. It's so easy for people to get so sick from that [ __ ] And I don't want any of you getting
sick, so be careful. >> No, we love you. Just use um Oh, [ __ ] I'm trying to think of the lady on the
commercials. I love her. >> What's the What's the floral start with P? I love that woman on the commercials.
>> Palm Olive. >> No, Pinesaw. >> Pineaw. >> I love pineaw. >> I was thinking pine saw, but I said palm
olive. >> No, that's actually funny because my brain was doing the same thing. >> I smell pines while I said palm olive.
>> [ __ ] I love pineaw. I mix it with warm water. Do you think that's okay? >> That's fine. Okay.
>> Yeah, you're okay there. >> All right, cool. Um, so yeah, be careful everybody. But because they had taken
the case pro bono, >> which is pretty great, Anderson and his team had to work nights and weekends
over an extended period of time before they finally arrived at the best possible explanation for what the [ __ ]
had happened at Riverside General. >> Yeah. The team theorized that like many cancer patients, Gloria Ramirez had
turned to DMSO, the one that wasn't okay. Yeah. To help manage her cancer related pain, which would account for
the oily sheen on her skin. >> And you said that was okay. >> That was okay. When the paramedics
placed the oxygen mask on her in the ambulance, >> it added a >> Gloria's bloodstream was flooded with
oxygen. >> Oh. creating the highly unusual set of [ __ ] circumstances required to
transform the DMSO into dimethyl sulfate. >> Holy >> blew my [ __ ] mind when I heard that.
>> No, my mind is Wow. >> Because they did exactly what they were supposed to do. They put oxygen on her
cuz she wasn't breathing. They did nothing wrong. Yeah, cuz they didn't how would they
>> would have no idea that that is not a common question that you have to ask someone like, "Do you have DMSO on you?"
And also, she wasn't able to really respond to a lot anyways. >> Yeah. >> So, they didn't do anything wrong. This
was not them being like negligent. >> No. >> But it's just a wildly unusual and freak
[ __ ] set of circumstanced as many people as it did because it's Did it like spread through the How does
that work actually? Well, her like so many of the ER staff went down because her her blood was now
filled with toxic gas essentially because her bloodstream was now flooded with oxygen
>> and that added the extra oxygen molecule to DMSO to turn it into that essential
nerve death. So like even holding a vial of her blood, it could kind of like go through the vial.
>> Well, it it's going to be exposed to the air somehow because it's going to be
transferred into the vial. So there is going to be some kind of >> I see >> you know and she's even just from that
little pin prick to insert the catheter to put the syringe in. >> It went into the air
>> exposure to the air like that it's vapor essentially like it can travel >> but I it just blew my [ __ ] mind
shocking. >> What are the goddamn odds of this? >> I would say they're very um insane.
>> Yeah. So the chemical reaction well pushed. They're they're I was like in my head I would just say they're low and
then I was like yeah no they're not high but I questioned myself if they are. I was like they're crazy.
>> So the chemical reaction would also explain the presence of the white or off-white like manila is what they
described crystals observed in the blood samples taken in the ER. When the blood
sample was drawn, small amounts of the lethal gas, like I said, leaked from the syringe, which explains why those
closest in proximity, Kain, Welch, and Gorchinsky were the most affected. Oh, cuz they all had and as they went out
further, people experienced considerably less symptoms of exposure. >> So, it would be the same as chemical
warfare. >> This is horrible, but incredibly fascinating. And just what the [ __ ] are
the odds that all this would happen? It's just like it really is wild. >> It really is an episode of [ __ ]
House. I'm like, has House done an episode on this? >> I'm about to Google it. I'll let you
know. >> It would be impossible for Anderson and his team to recreate the exact circumstances necessary to like
concretely prove this theory. So, when they submitted the report to the coroner in the case, it was only so they could
get the county's feedback. Nevertheless, the county the Riverside County coroner's office accepted the Forensic
Science C Center's explanation because it makes so much [ __ ] sense and released the report as the final word on
the matter. Although some people were skeptical of the results, pointing out that a reaction like that would have
required an enormous amount of DMSO, Oregon State toxicologist Frank Dos pointed out in that stage of fighting
for her life, Ramirez may have really overloaded on it. >> Yeah. creating the precise set of
circumstances under which the chain reaction could occur. And I fully believe that. I think this is just a
freak >> set of circumstances that absolutely no one is at fault for. Totally. I mean,
you think of like the products that are available that you don't realize how like dangerous they can be. I just I'm
29 years old. I just found out that you can't put Vicks under your nose overnight.
>> Yeah. That's honestly idea like that is something we used to do when we were like younger. Yeah. And and it's these
home remedy things, >> but when you start looking into them, you realize how dangerous this [ __ ] can
be. >> Yeah. I mean, >> I'm so glad I'm related to you because you're so sciency.
>> I would have no idea. >> It's scary. And even things like um like dry shampoo, aerosol dry shampoo.
>> I know >> the fact that that's been connected to so much cancer and different like stuff.
>> It's so scary. >> You're better off with like the really natural like pump powder ones,
>> but you also have to be careful of those. So like be really careful when you're picking this [ __ ] cuz you just
don't want to put yourself in that position you know. >> Now for the last you know over 25 years
Gloria Ramirez has been called the toxic lady. Someone whose existence was only significant in death essentially
>> because of like what people said about her. >> The curiosity of course is only natural.
I mean >> it's a fascinating like I just said >> the circumstances of her death are
bizarre. They're incredibly complex, easily lending themselves to fantastical interpretations of it. But from the
moment she died, Gloria's family had to face a seemingly endless stream of reporters, media personalities, and
headlines that accused Gloria, who was not here to defend herself, of everything from PCP addiction to being
an alien. I'm sorry. Are you [ __ ] kidding me? >> Yeah. If you're rolling up to somebody's
house as a reporter, like listen, I get it. Reporters are a thing. If you're rolling up to somebody's house who has
just lost their family member and asking if they're a [ __ ] alien, you >> go [ __ ] yourself.
>> Re-evaluate your [ __ ] life choices. >> Re-evaluate your entire existence as a
human. Are you joking? And PCP addiction. Like, what? >> Where do we even get that from?
>> It's just grasping at sensational headlines. That's all it is. >> So shitty. It's outrageous. I mean, the
speculation was ridiculous and it obscured her humanity. >> Uh, truly, >> Gloria Ramirez was a single mother of
two young children. She was described as quote, "A simple homemaker." According to Reverend Brian Taylor, who spoke at
her graveside, >> she was also a sister, a girlfriend, and a member of the community whose life was
tragically cut short very quickly by cancer. >> Yeah. Like so many of us, her life was
just ordinary. Hard like just a just a life. >> Yeah. >> Hardly befitting the science fiction
narrative that she is so often involuntarily inserted into. >> Yeah. When Gloria was finally laid to
rest on April 27th, more than two months after her death, it was under the invasive eye of journalists,
photographers, a whole host of people who were shouting questions at the grieving family
>> at the funeral, >> setting a disrespectful and thoughtless tone that honestly permeated her legacy
for more than two decades at this point. >> Yeah. Get the [ __ ] away from people's
gravesides unless you're related or people like get out of here. In a brief article for the Los Angeles Times, Peter
King's summation of the funeral is something that we should probably all keep in mind today, they wrote,
"Speaking well of the dead, allowing them a final dignity is a basic human courtesy. Gloria Ramirez just got
cheated." Yeah, she absolutely did. And it's so true because I fully believe the theory that the
forensic science center came up with anderson and his team. >> It makes so much sense
>> just from a scientific freak set of circumstances that can happen but obviously don't happen often.
>> Yeah. No, right. >> And no one is at fault. It was no one was doing anything that they shouldn't
have been doing. >> No. >> Gloria was in pain. She was doing what she was probably she might have been who
knows maybe she was grown up with that remedy. You know what I mean? Like was just like [ __ ] Vicks under my nose.
>> Yeah. Like she was just doing what she had to do to get relief which any of us
none of us who have not experienced cancer like personally >> can speak to because I can't imagine
that. >> No. >> And the paramedics were just doing their job getting oxygen to her brain and her
lungs when she was losing it rapidly. >> Right. doing their job and the ER staff
was doing their job and it's like and it just nobody did anything wrong. Every it
just was a [ __ ] set of circumstances that happened to fall into an even shittier one.
>> Yeah. 100%. >> But Gloria Ramirez is not the toxic lady. No, she's a like you just said,
she was like a family member of many people and a friend, >> a friend, a sister, a girlfriend, a
community member, and somebody who got sick in a [ __ ] set of circumstances happened.
>> Yeah, that's it. But it's >> Let's give people dignity. Yeah, it's more fascinating what happened to make
all of that occur than it is to sit here and call her the toxic woman and say that it was something
>> ask if she alen or like things >> like something naturally occurring in her body or something like that. Like
it's just [ __ ] organic chemistry really. >> Gone arai. >> Wow. >> But that's the tale of Gloria Ramirez
and I hope her family has gotten some kind of relief over the the past couple of decades here.
>> Yeah. >> Because I would hope so. And here we are to set the record straight. She's not a
toxic woman. >> She's not a toxic woman. >> Get the [ __ ] out. >> She's Gloria Ramirez.
>> That really was a fascinating case that had heard of it like but I did not know
everything that went into that. >> Yeah. I had only heard her called toxic lady.
>> Me too. So >> yeah. Wow. All right. Well, thanks for listening. We hope you keep listening
and we hope you keep it weird. I'm not so that you're rolling up to people's houses or their grave sites asking
stupid questions. I had to sing during the episode and here it is. Yeah. Don't do that. Don't do that. I'll punch you.
Don't do that. I won't actually punch you, but I'll like metaphorically punch you.
>> Yeah. [Music] [Music] [Music]

Just after 8:00 pm on the evening of February 19, 1994, thirty-one-year-old Gloria Ramirez was admitted to Riverside General Hospital with what Emergency Room staff believed were symptoms of a heart attack. When Ramirez failed to respond to the medications and emergency treatments, medical staff began preparations for defibrillation; however, when they removed the woman’s shirt, they were surprised to find her skin covered in an oily sheen and her body seemed to be emitting an odd fruity odor. Stranger still, when a nurse took a blood sample from the woman’s arm, the blood smelled of ammonia and appeared to have slightly yellow particles floating in it. The nurse turned to leave the room, intending to take the sample for immediate analysis, but she didn’t even make it to the door before she lost consciousness and was caught by a coworker before her limp body hit the floor. Less than an hour after she was admitted to the Riverside General Emergency Room, Gloria Ramirez was pronounced dead, but her story was far from over. Thank you to the Amazing Dave White (of BRING ME THE AXE PODCAST) for research and writing assistance!

References Ayers, B. Drummon. 1994. "Elaborate precautions taken for autopsy in mystery fumes case." New York Times, February 25: A17. Ayers, B. Drummond. 1994. "After airtight autopsy, mystery lingers in case of hospital fumes." New York Times, February 26: 10. Boodman, Sandra G. 1994. "Was it a case of mass hysteria or poisoning by toxic chemical?" Washington Post, September 13. Gorman, Tom. 1994. "Victims of fumes still ill, and still seeking answers." Los Angeles Times, April 14: 1. King, Peter H. 1994. "Another funeral of note." Los Angeles Times, April 27: 3. Kolata, Gina. 1994. "Fumes at hospital baffle officials." New York Times, February 22: A12. New York Times. 1994. "Doctor faults state report on faintings." New York Times, September 4. —. 1994. "Doctor files lawsuit over mystery fumes in emergency room." New York Times, August 10: A14. —. 1994. "Kidney failure killed woman in fumes case." New York Times, May 1. Stone, Richard. 1995. "Analysis of a Toxic Death." Discover Magazine, April 1.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from @ Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

Gloria Ramirez's case reveals a bizarre medical mystery involving toxic reactions and media sensationalism surrounding her death.

Key points

Unexpected Hospital Chaos. Gloria Ramirez's visit to the ER leads to bizarre symptoms among medical staff.
Tragic Turn of Events. Gloria Ramirez, diagnosed with cancer, collapses and is rushed to the hospital.
Mass Illness in the ER. 23 of 37 emergency department staff experience symptoms after Gloria's arrival.
Dr. Gorgjinsky's Struggles. Dr. Julie Gorgjinsky suffered severe symptoms after exposure, including surgery for necrosis.
Investigation into Hospital Conditions. Investigators focused on Riverside General Hospital, suspecting toxic exposure from the ventilation system.
Mass Psychogenic Illness Theory. A study concluded that symptoms experienced were likely due to mass psychogenic illness.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This story is wild.

6:10WatchSep 11, 2025

Tension

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