Episode 704: The Kidnapping of Patty Hearst (Part 2) | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. [Music] It's our first exclusive episode with
Sirius. >> No. >> I am like the feeling in this room. >> Oh, it's wild. It's palpable. If you
guys were You guys are here. You can feel it. >> It's palpable. Like, we're cleaning the
pod lab. We're entering a new era. >> We're not just cleaning the pod lab. We are revitalizing and gutting it because
the energy in this place was [ __ ] rancid. >> Rank ass energy. >> It was rancid as hell. So, we said, "Get
the [ __ ] out of here energy." And we're bringing new wonderful >> happy energy into this room.
>> Yeah, it's insane. No particular reason for any of that. Just happy energy being
brought into the room. >> It's insane. Like the actual physical baggage, but also like the emotional
energetic baggage that you can accumulate over a few years. >> Yeah, it's true. You can It's And it
sounds like crazy, but it really is like you can feel the heaviness in this room.
That's why we were like every we opened the windows. We were like bye. >> Yeah. >> We got rid of everything. Like we're
starting a new. So this pod lab will look a little different when you see it on camera.
>> Yeah. And actually we're going to start doing listener tales like switching off
our sides of the room which I'm excited for. >> Um cuz like Elena's wall is so Elena and
mine I need to revamp mine a little bit. Like it's still very me but I need to kind of like
>> Well, we're we're revamping. >> We're gutt. >> Exactly. >> But yeah. So that'll be fun like
switching off. >> Yeah. It feel it feels like a new era and we're very excited. >> I can't express to you how happy I've
been like the last few days. >> Oh, we the three of us in this room have been literally laughing so hard the last
few days that we've been like crying. >> Yeah. >> Coughing, sputtering, falling on the
ground. Like we are just in a state of we're just we're very excited for Sirius and we're excit we really love the
people that we're working with at Sirius and we feel very at home. >> Yeah. Things are just [ __ ] awesome
right now. In fact, things are so awesome that we said, "Why not do another live show?"
>> Hey, >> you guys, you sold out the first one in under 3 minutes, which was um truly
insane. Picture frames are falling. >> There's a lot of uh >> there's a lot of things around.
>> There's a lot of hoo-ha. >> Like we said, we're unpacking. But um no, you guys sold out the Wilbur. You
helped us do that in under three minutes. So, we said, "Honey, we got to add another show. There's a lot of
weirdos that couldn't get tickets." >> Exactly. And you guys were saying like, "Shit, I wanted a ticket." and we were
like, >> "Let's get you one." >> We said, "We'll do what we can, doll, like not going on a nationwide tour by
any means, but >> you know, we'll add another show." And we did. So, that goes on sale uh
September 8th >> at like the Wilbur website, wherever you got tickets. >> Yeah. And the show will be the 28th. So,
the Sunday after the uh the first show, which is on the 26th. >> Yeah. We did the Friday and then a
Sunday. Give us a little break for our beauty rest. >> You know, revitalize. >> Exactly. I'm so excited.
>> So, yeah, get September 8th. Get those tickets. Same. It's at the Wilbur, so you can get them the same way you got
the first ones. >> Um, >> it'll be the same show, just so you know. >> Yep. Same show.
>> So, like if you got it, >> you got it. >> You might want to see I don't know if
you want to see it again, but just know going into it that it won't be a different show.
>> Yeah, it's not going to be a different show, but um we're very excited about it.
>> Yeah. >> And we'll get to meet some of you guys. There's some meet and greet tickets um
up there, too. There's going to be special merch for just for the show >> exclusive
>> and um for the merch that's going to be like special merch for the shows. Uh we
collabed with Matt at the Black Veil, our buddy Matt. We love Black Veil. >> Our good bud, our good bud. Uh and he
helped he designed our merch. So I'm very excited about that. >> And if you're familiar with Matt and
Ryan, please have no fear. We have Ryan working on some other stuff. >> We do. >> We are. We There are big things
happening. Hey, hey, hey. Big things happening. >> Big things happening. We're going to be
having a new uh season of the Rewatcher coming in a couple months. >> Going to be covering True Blood.
>> We're going to be covering True Blood. So, if you haven't join the Rewatcher crowd if you if you weren't, you know,
if Buffy wasn't your thing, that's okay. Um True Blood. It's going to be [ __ ] hilarious for True Blood.
>> I'm super excited. And we have some really cool things for True Blood. We have a new theme song that we can't say
what it is yet because we're gonna make it a surprise. >> But you know what? A friend helped us.
>> A friend helped us with the >> friend of the pod. >> So well, don't worry. You'll find out.
>> Yeah, you'll find out. >> Uh, but that's all very exciting things. >> What other Bid nasty do we have?
>> Is there any other >> We're both looking at Mikey like Michael, >> Michael, >> what do we have?
>> Tell me about my life. >> This isn't Bney Bney. What? >> This isn't Bney. This isn't bit nasty,
but I have discovered that I can drink cold brew now. >> Yeah, she has. >> It's made me a brand new [ __ ]
>> Yeah, >> I feel >> it gives her a high like I've never seen. >> That's the thing. And it's not like a
It's nice because I'm It's just like a nice smooth happiness. I used to drink cold brew and feel like my heart was
literally racing out of my chest and going to just like fall onto the floor. Now I'm just like I'm so happy. I love
everyone. She's been hilarious. She's always hilarious, but she's been extra hilarious.
>> Yeah, >> we're Oh my god. We're also working on So, like when you go to the Wilbur show,
obviously like we're not out on stage right away. It takes us a minute to get red eyee. So, you listen to a cool
playlist that we are >> we are curating this playlist and it goes so [ __ ] hard.
>> It's wild. >> It's very distinguishable who picked what song. Uh, and it goes again it goes
harder than any other playlist that I am aware of. >> It is a wild playlist. >> I got out of breath earlier dancing to
one of the songs and it fell onto my train. >> That is 100% the truth. >> Mikey threw a wig on and was dancing. It
was It was pretty intense. >> I can't laugh too hard. I don't Oh, yeah. It's my case today. We're doing
part two of Patty. Um, so this one's like a little bit of a shorter one, but I had to break it in a certain way. But
before we get into everything, um I just want to say sorry because my voice might
be like a little weird. I don't know if it's allergies. >> It's probably allergies
>> or if it's all the ling perhaps >> it could be a mixture. >> It's it's just a little bit weird just
so you know. >> Yeah. And and before we get into Patty, we just wanted to quickly say cuz you
know school is starting for a lot of parents and kids and all that fun stuff. Um, but it started off really poorly.
Um, because we are so sorry about the um the school shooting at the Enunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis. Yeah.
>> Uh, horrifying. >> They were literally >> two kids were killed. 17, I believe, are
injured. A couple in critical. >> Yeah. 17 were injured and I think it was 14 of those 17 are children.
>> Yeah. And two of them are in critical condition. It's [ __ ] terrible. >> The kids killed uh they said were eight
and 10. >> Eight and 10. babies and they were only in school for a couple of days. I mean,
the school year hasn't even started for all of us. >> The mass itself was celebrating the
first week of school that they were in. >> It's horrifying. Um, we need to do better than thoughts and prayers. We
need to do something. Uh, so contact whoever you can contact to get some [ __ ] moving because this just can't stand
anymore. This is insane. >> Um, it it's just so upsetting. And also, teachers need raises. We need we need to
pay teachers better. It's what are we doing here? >> That's what you That's what we were
talking about earlier and Elena said she's like we're asking so much of teachers.
>> We are literally asking teachers like I when I sit in front of my kids teachers
at like before school starts for like the parent teacher thing. I every I'm like I am asking you to throw yourself
in front of my child >> to be a human in the unthinkable event. >> Yeah. >> Like I'm literally I'm asking you this
right now. And the wild thing is that like like that we are putting so much faith in these teachers and they are
they're putting that on themselves. >> Oh, they're willing they're doing it. >> That's the thing. They're willing to be
[ __ ] >> and they're often treated like [ __ ] >> and it's like I'm I mean we we've been
very lucky that we've had amazing teachers. Like my kids have had just the best teachers. Oh,
>> they really have. And but it's like I it it just makes me I I can't believe what
we ask of them and what they have to take on and then they're given just [ __ ] >> bare classrooms and they have to pay out
of their own pocket >> and they do >> and they do to make it colorful to make it fun to make it engaging like that's
why we were just talking about it every now like whenever I see like on TikTok sometimes if I see a teacher talking
about like their wish lists a lot of times they have Amazon on wish list or something. Um, and when I can, I try to
>> buy off of the wish list because I just I I can't I can't believe that teachers
have to pay out of pocket to do anything for their students. >> So many other jobs you are given the
tools to do that job. >> Like just given a bare room like that's wild. So we just want to say like um our
listeners who are teachers, if you have wish lists and you need them cleared, you need some stuff off of them like you
can please send them into us. you can send them to morbidpodcast@gmail.com. Um, we we obviously can't clear
everybody's list, but we would love to start trying to help out as much as we can. Um, because [ __ ] that sucks. And
>> as soon as we've barely started the school year and there's already a school shooting, it really makes it hit a
little harder how much faith and how much pressure we are putting on teachers, especially parents. Like we
should all be sitting there thinking about it that like as we send our kid off to school, we're we're assuming that
that teacher is willing to risk their entire self for your kid. >> And they will.
>> Yeah. >> We've seen it time and time again. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, if you want to send us your
lists, morbidgmail.com, just put in the title that it's a teacher list. Yeah. >> Um so yeah, so so do that. We'll do our
best and hope you teachers, we love you and >> I know that that's a horrifying beginning to the school year for
teachers and parents alike. So, >> thinking of all of you in solidarity. >> Look out for each other, y'all.
>> Yeah, for sure. >> All right, so with all of that being said, I think it is time to get into
Patty part two. >> Patty part two. >> Patty part two. Um, this is like a little bit of a shorter part, too. And I
didn't do that for any other reason other than the way that the story goes. There's so much that happens that you
kind of just have to break at certain points. >> Yeah. Like >> just so you can understand the whole
narrative. >> Yeah. Exactly. Um, so I think this is probably going to end up being four
parts unless it's just a really long part three, but I'm I think I'm leaning towards four parts just to make it all
kind of palatable. >> Okay. So, just to go over part one really quickly, we covered a lot of the
background of this era that were in, you know, like very late 60s, early 70s, mostly how the youths of the time were
trying to start a revolution. >> A revolution. >> Yeah. For change. And how some groups
were doing it very peacefully, very kumbayaike. >> Hell yeah. >> And others, the Siman Liberation Army,
>> they were doing things like kidnapping Patty Hurst. >> Yeah. A little bit different.
>> Stuff like that. >> Yeah. Um, so if for some reason you're just tuning in to part two and skipping
part one, that's crazy. What are you doing? Whoa. >> I'll help you out. >> That's reckless.
>> Patty Hurst was low-key the daughter belonging to one of the richest families
in the world. So, that wasn't awesome that she got kidnapped. >> No. >> We ended part one with Patty's family
getting a tape from her where she basically said that her kidnappers hadn't hurt her that badly. They were
being nice enough. She just asked her parents to comply with their wishes. and Patty's family, her dad especially
Randph Hurst, set up that food distrib uh distribution center and all of them around California just trying to comply
with the demands of the SLA. So, let's get into part two. >> Let's do it. >> While Randolph Hurst and FBI agents were
working to get Patty back from the SLA, Patty herself was going through a pretty
emotionally trying time and a pretty bizarre experience of her own. >> Yeah. At first, the SLA was keeping her
inside of a closet. >> Wow. >> This closet was 6 and 1/2 ft deep, a little over 2 feet wide, and 8 ft high.
>> What? >> And she was there like 24/7 for a while. >> What the [ __ ] >> At night, she slept on a dirty foam
mattress that they had cut to fit into the closet. >> Yeah. So, at all times, she was in total
darkness and she barely remember 2 and 1/2 ft wide. So, she didn't even have enough room to turn around most of the
time. >> Oh my god. >> The claustrophobia must have been next level. >> Now, things obviously weren't quite as
dire as she had worried when she was thinking about the kidnapping of Barbara Markle, who was buried alive.
>> Yeah. >> But in the pitch dark of that closet, it was kind of hard to tell the difference.
>> Yeah, it's pretty similar. >> Yeah. So, she was doing her best to stay calm, but the early days were very
scary. Eventually, though, she kind of started tapping into the sounds around her. She was trying to listen to the
voices of her kidnappers when they were talking near the closet and trying to figure out what the [ __ ] was going on
here. And whenever she was outside the closet for any reason, they kept her blindfolded so she couldn't see their
faces. But she really tapped into listening and realized that there were big differences in dealing with each of
them. >> Like Donald Dreeze, for example, he was the head of the operation. He was
commanding. He was gruff. He didn't there didn't seem to be like a lot of intelligence or compassion behind his
personality. >> He was just intense. >> Ew. >> In the early days, he told Patty that
she had been quote arrested, not kidnapped. No. >> Because her father was a corporate enemy
of the people. >> Do you know what arrested means? >> He had a different definition.
>> Do you know what kidnapped means? >> Like sir, >> no, it's definitely kidnapping.
>> Sir, what? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. when he was talking about the mission and the message, it didn't
really seem to Patty like he was experienced in any way at what he was doing. It just kind of sounded like he
was a kid playing war. >> Yeah, it it does sound like that. >> Yeah. Some of the other members, they
seemed to Patty entirely out of place among the more hardened members. Like Bill Harris, the one who had grabbed her
hand. >> I was going to say, yeah, >> he spoke in a very soft, generally respectful tone. And he and a few of the
other uh in the group reminded Patty actually of kids that she went to school with. It was like these kids, like the
softer ones, had gotten caught up in the movement. Things had gone too far and now they didn't know how to get out.
>> Yeah, that makes sense. >> But even though she was like, "Okay, these people are like, you know, kind of
like peers and it seems like they're a little lost here." It was still a serious situation that wasn't lost on
her. >> She didn't know a lot about these people, but she did know that they claimed responsibility for the murder of
Marcus Foster, so that was reason enough to take them seriously. Yeah, that's terrifying.
>> Yeah. So, in the early days, Donald Def and some of the others were really trying to interrogate her about her
dad's financial situation and they wanted to know about like his business dealings, what was going on there,
>> which it's like how much does she actually know? >> Well, like >> exactly, you know, so she didn't know a
lot about it. She didn't really know a ton about where her f she knew that they were wealthy.
>> She knew like generally what maybe what he does but like >> kind of but she didn't know like where
everything came from and she like she was like yeah I think we're richer than most people but she was like I don't
know how we spend it. I don't know his colleagues. I don't know a lot about this.
>> So they were getting frustrated with her >> and also Patty it was like Patty was
like why are you asking me all of this? Like this is very strange and bizarre. >> Yeah. But what was more disturbing was
the fact that DeFreeze and others already seemed to know a lot. Like they were they wereing her with questions,
but at the same time it seemed like they had info, not just about her father or her family wealth, but about her
specifically. >> A few days into keeping her, Patty was asking when she was going to be able to
go home and Donald Dere just looked at her and was like, "What? You want to go home for your birthday?"
>> Ew. >> Like, but he knew it was her birthday. >> Yeah. I hate that a lot. Yeah. Scary.
She said later that she remembered this as one of the most chilling moments of the whole thing
>> because for so many reasons. For one, he knows it's your birthday. >> Yeah. >> And then two, just being like, "Oh, you
want to go home for your birthday?" Like, that's so dehumanizing. Like, you just don't give a [ __ ]
>> He definitely did it. >> And also, it made her realize, too, that she wasn't just the victim of a random
kidnapping. This was coordinated. This was well researched. And her kidnappers knew way more than she thought they did.
Now, within a few days, it occurred to everybody in the safe house that not knowing how long these negotiations were
going to go on with the Hurst family, they couldn't just keep Patty in that small ass closet with no contact with
anybody for the whole duration of her captivity. So, instead, Donald Dere kind of put together this schedule where only
three members would engage with her. That way, she couldn't identify the entire group because this is a big
group. He knew that he didn't have any kind of rapport with her. Like they weren't driving at all.
>> I wonder why. >> Yeah, it's crazy. So, he assigned Nancy Lang, uh, Angela Atwood, and Willie
Wolf, which is an iconic name, I have to say. >> Willy Wolf is a great name. >> Willy Wolf.
>> I kind of wanted Bill Harris to be in there. >> I I too was >> I feel like she would be a good fit.
>> Yeah. But Willie Wolf Willie Wolf stepped in. >> So, they were kind of like her handlers.
And he said he figured Donald DFreeze since the three of them came from upper middle class backgrounds, they would be
better positioned to get information out of her. She could kind of relate to them. Yeah.
>> So there was some thought thought and put into >> So in the days that followed, she didn't
really have a lot of communication with her kidnappers. Most of the time that she did spend them spend with them was
just to record the communications that they were sending to her family and to the radio station. But when Patty wasn't
making recordings, she was just sitting there listening in on conversations between everybody. Most of what she was
saying in recordings was written down for her to say. But as she was doing more and more of these recordings and
listening in more, she was starting to understand what they were saying. And sometimes she was starting to understand
why they were saying it. >> Like she she got the message. >> Oh. >> Which is a little scary.
>> Yeah. That's interesting. >> Yeah. And with each communication that the family was getting, that the radio
stations were getting, there seemed to be a noticeable shift in her voice, it was something like confidence. Like she
didn't seem as scared to be being held anymore. And it almost seemed like she was starting to agree with what they
were saying. >> Like their what their whole message behind what they were doing was.
>> Yeah. author Jeffrey Tubin pointed out and we linked to his book in the um first set of show notes and we'll link
it in this one too. But he said it was kind of an impatience in her voice. He said not with her captors but with her
parents. >> Yeah, that would be scary. >> Yeah, >> especially for her parents to hear like
they probably notice. >> Yeah, that's the thing. Oh, they definitely did. So, in time the rigid
schedule and the structure of the only three members handling Patty started to relax because she's spending more time
there. They can probably see that she's starting to kind of hear what they're saying.
>> No one lost sight of the larger goals and nobody forgot that Patty was captive. But it also at the same time
was kind of impossible to keep up these prisonesque formalities >> no matter how much Donald Dere thought
that he was running a [ __ ] military operation thought. >> So by by early March after a full month
being held captive, another recording was delivered to the Hurst home. In this one, it didn't seem actually like the
message was written out. It seemed like Patty herself was talking and she sounded genu genuinely frustrated with
her parents. She told them, "I don't believe you're doing anything at all." >> Ooh, that would kill me.
>> And also, they were >> That's the thing. They were trying as hard as they possibly could.
>> In part one, we talked about how her father, Randph Hurst, set up those food distribution centers and his
organization, Pin People in Need immediately. Yeah. >> And how like obviously it didn't go
perfectly fine with the startup and >> not a lot does. >> It never does with a startup. And it
went pretty well all things considered. Just being her parents and going through
this ordeal first of all and then hearing her say, "I don't think you're doing anything at all." That would kill
me. >> Yeah. >> Like knowing my my child thought I wasn't doing anything to save them might
kill me where I stand. Like I think I would die. >> Yeah. I >> that would be gut-wrenching.
>> I feel so hard for her parents. >> Yeah, that's just gut-wrenching to see. I don't believe that you're doing
anything at all. >> Yeah, that would ruin my entire ex. I would never recover from that.
>> I don't know how you how you listen to that. And >> and also know that you're doing
everything you possibly can. >> Yeah, that's the thing. Like, you know, but she doesn't. Why is she realizing?
And like are they >> why doesn't she believe that I would do anything to save her? Like did I not
instill that into her enough? Like >> well then they're probably looking back on the relationship they did have with
her where, you know, she was the tougher one of the five daughters. >> Did we somehow make her think we
wouldn't move like you know mountains for her? >> Exactly. >> Exactly. I think there was probably a
lot of I was just going to say a lot of guilt like ruminating which like not you
know not valid guilt as in like they did something wrong but like they're probably putting it on themselves.
>> Exactly. So by that point the restrictions that the SLA placed on Patty were pretty much gone altogether.
There was never any question of the power dynamics at play and she didn't forget that she was a prisoner. But in
time, she started to see her kidnappers as something more and something different than a group of terrorists,
which is what they were. But there wasn't a lot else to do other than sit around and talk. So Patty and the SLA
members, several of them in particular, would have these long conversations. They just sit around and talk about all
kinds of [ __ ] And they ended up finding out that they had a lot more in common
than they originally thought they did. A lot of these people came from educated backgrounds. They had interests in art,
in literature, in politics obviously, and she did too. Not really in politics, but in like arts and literature.
>> And when you start feeling like you're connecting on a human level with people,
it's hard to to see anything else >> and to to see the situation for what it is.
>> That's the thing, like she's sitting there genuinely connecting with other human beings. That's really hard to then
be like, "Oh, wait. These are bad people. >> You broke it in the middle of the night."
carried me away and shoved me in a trunk. >> Yeah. And like kept me in a closet for
how long? And it's like you just start seeing people that you get along with and that you probably genuinely are
like, "Fuck, we might have hung out like outside of this whole thing." >> That must be so weird because I do feel
like whenever we talk about a kidnapping situation, it's usually a younger person
being kidnapped by like an older person. In this case, >> these are her peers. >> These are her peers. Exactly. And
they're from the same area. They're from the same background. Now they have the same interests.
>> That's the thing. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Now sometimes, especially when it came
to Donald Dreeze though, he would kind of talk at Patty rather than have a conversation with her. He would just
ramble on about Revolution and the message and >> what they had to do and yada yada. But
other times when she was talking to the other members, like we were just saying,
it felt like she was chatting with her friends or at the very least just well-meaning activists.
>> Yeah. >> And after a while, she realized that it didn't seem like they actually had any
intention of killing her. and she thought they genuinely just wanted her father's money to help the poor.
>> Yeah. >> So, it wasn't long before she started gaining a lot of new perspectives on the
world. From the first day she was born, she had spent every day in luxury. She really didn't have to struggle for much.
Like, obviously, she had her struggles, but >> she could have whatever she wanted in a
material sense. >> And the people around her at school, at home, at her father's company, they all
lived similarly to that, too. And even though a lot of the members of the SLA had lived, like I've been saying, these
somewhat privileged lives, they still knew that the same was not true for everybody. Yeah. Especially when it came
to minorities, to the poor. And they felt, and oftentimes were correct, that these people were put down and ignored
by capitalist systems. >> Yeah. >> So talks like that made Patty think about Steve, remember her fiance Steve?
>> Oh, yes. >> Who she was already initially angry with on the night of the kidnapping.
>> Yeah. But at one point she told Willie Wolf that even before the kidnapping she
was thinking of breaking things off with Steve. >> Oh damn. >> Which I do believe because they were
already struggling before they got engaged. >> She said she saw him as too rigid, too
proper. It bothered her that he seemed kind of incapable of just taking things on as they came and he needed to
schedule everything out. And obviously there was the night of the kidnapping when rather than trying to stop them
from taking her, she felt he told them, "Take anything you want," which kind of only confirmed her growing feelings of
resentment. >> Yeah, I could see that. >> It's a tough situation. >> I was going to say, and I think maybe he
was being like, "Take anything you want. Just things >> things like don't take my fiance."
>> You can't really get mad at him for that for being like, "Take anything in this
house you want. Just don't hurt her." I guess also on the other side of it, if I
had spent like a month in a closet after being kidnapped and like my mans hadn't
really like done a whole lot, I I might be a little angry. >> Yeah. You know, >> I mean, I can't imagine this situation.
So, >> you're not in your right frame of mind. I would say >> definitely not. >> But unlike her relationship with Steve,
Patty was starting to find it a lot easier to talk to Willie Wolf. They would sit around, the two of them, and
chat for hours about everything under the sun. She learned that just like her, he came from a wealthy family. He had
actually grown up in like the high society of Connecticut, which is wild because now he's literally in a
liberation army. >> Damn. >> Yeah. Uh he knew what it was like to go to boarding schools just like she did.
How hard it was to feel like you could never meet your parents' expectations. Like, you know, rich kid problems.
>> And he also shared Patty's love of animals and being outdoors. >> A cute. >> Now, his path to radicalization, which
is kind of fun. >> Radicalization. >> I just like that word. >> The path to radicalization.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's fun to say. I don't know why, but his path to radicalization
came in 1973. And that was his first year of grad school. >> He accepted a position as a tutor at a
prison, which is where he met Romero and Little, those two SLA members who were arrested and serving time in part one.
>> And then they kidnapped Patty and were demanding Romero and Little's release.
>> Oh, damn. >> Remember? >> Yep. >> So, now we're going back a little bit. This is where Willie met them. Oh,
>> they were in prison. They got out at a certain point because they escaped. Remember?
>> Damn. >> Yeah. >> Speaking of prison. >> Yeah. >> Um, what am I done? I'm so >> I'm so sorry. Starting off a
conversation. >> Speaking of prison with Speaking of prison is diabolic. >> I just had to take this little side
tangent cuz you guys will think it's funny. >> I love it. >> Blanch, my dog, >> is um she's like a counter counter
surfer. She always jumps up to try to eat food. We cannot get her to stop. Sydney, she's living her best life,
>> but Blanch just she's a dingus. >> And so the other day she went to go grab something off the counter and John just
looked at her and said, cuz she did get something. >> She got a whole waffle. >> She did. She got a whole waffle, but we
got it back. Don't worry. Um like we we got rid of it. But >> yeah, she got like a bite.
>> Um but John just looked at her and said, "Prison, >> prison." >> And it was the funniest thing in the
entire world. And now every time she jumps up, we're just saying prison. I'm hoping that that will be a command
that makes her stop. >> Wouldn't it be so funny if what you had to say to her to get her to get off the
counter was prison prison prison. Now we're trying it. Prison blanch >> prison blanch. I witnessed that happen
and I almost cried. I was laughing so hard. >> I thought that was a fun little >> out of absolutely nowhere. John just
goes and he said it so exacerbated just like >> prison. >> He was just like prison Blanch prison.
So yeah, speaking of prison, um they were in prison and you know Willie was working there
>> prison >> and they started to talk to Willie about you know their message, their views on
politics, the current state of the world and >> yada yada yada. They were getting closer
and closer until eventually one day Willie found himself smuggling in books about the revolution for them and before
long he was a radicalized full-fledged member of the SLA. >> Wow. >> Yeah. That escalated quickly.
>> Yeah. from from prison tutor to full >> member of the symbion liberation army.
>> So that's good. So while Patty was getting to know her captors on a personal level, her dad was doing an
investigation of his own by holding regular meetings with Clifford Deathro Jefferson.
>> Oh, Clifford Death Row Jeff I forgot about him. Old Death Row. >> You can't forget about Clifford Death
Row Jefferson. >> You cannot forget about old death row. >> And you never you never hear the last of
Death Row Jefferson. >> Yeah, you never will. So he So I feel so bad for her father that he's just like a
media magnet like you know and he's just out here talking to death row Jefferson
>> and other incarcerated SLA members rough because remember when the SLA was created they they like reached out to a
lot of imprisoned people and had them join which was a little little cuck nuts >> little cuck nuts
>> cuz I don't know how much help they were going to be I don't know >> who knows
>> but so now Randolph is just having these meetings and he thought originally that
Death Row Jefferson was the leader of the group mostly because Death Row Jefferson himself also thought that.
>> I was going to say cuz Death Row Jefferson told him properly. >> Exactly. So that
>> so Randolph is sitting here like, "Okay, great. I'm talking to the head guy in
charge like I'm going to I'm going to get some movement here." >> Yeah. Who's not going to think that a
guy named Death Row Jefferson is not the leader of whatever group you're talking
about? If your name is Death Row Jefferson, I believe you're the leader of all. >> Yeah.
>> And I'll I'll assume >> whatever you tell me you're the leader of, I'll just probably assume you are.
>> I'll do what I can to to make things happen, to do your bidding. You know, it's fine.
>> So, he hoped, Randolph hoped that he might convince Deathro Jefferson to demand the release of his daughter.
>> And as a result, >> the name is just >> I'm never going to stop saying this name.
>> It never sounds right. >> Dave was writing Jefferson in the notes and I was like, "No, no, no. Jefferson.
So, as a result, Death Row Jefferson, Little and Romero, uh, and other incarcerated SLA members started sending
letters to the press indicating that because Randolph was complying with the demands, Patty would be released very
soon. And by that point, the organization that Patty's family had set up that I was just talking about, PIN,
or People in Need, they made their fifth and final food dist uh, distribution per
the terms of their agreement. So, one way or another, the situation had to come to an end.
>> Yeah. did what they were asked to do. >> Exactly. >> They did everything they were asked to
do. >> They did. They did the impossible. >> They really did. So, by the beginning of
April, Patty had been in captivity for almost 2 months at that point. And aside from just the small number of
recordings, nobody had any idea what she was going through while she was being held.
>> No. And they can and her parents can only think of the worst [ __ ] imaginable.
>> Exactly. But finally, on April 2nd, KSAN radio in San Francisco got another communication from the SLA. And this one
had specific details regarding Patty's release. It was finally happening. The statement indicated that Patty would be
released from captivity within the next 72 hours. And the letter should have been a cause for celebration.
But a second communication, this one in Patty's voice, a recording in Patty's voice came just one day later. And let's
just say that if there was any celebration, it was shortlived. >> Oh no. So on April 3rd, just one day after the
letter talking all about Patty's release, KPFA radio got a recording in Patty's voice. Unlike the other
recordings where she sounded concerned in the beginning, eventually maybe a little frustrated,
>> this voice on the recording was confident and firm and the message was unexpected and straight up bizarre.
>> Oh boy. She said, "Mom, Dad, tell the poor and oppressed people of this nation
what the corporate state is about to do. Warn black and poor people that they are
about to be murdered down to the last man, woman, and child. Tell the public that the energy crisis is nothing more
than a means to get public approval for a massive program to build nuclear power
plants all over the nation. Tell the people that the entire corporate state is with the aid of its massive power
supply about to totally automate the entire industrial state to the point that in the next 5 years all that will
be needed is a small class of button pushers. Tell the people dad that the removal of expendable access, the
removal of unneeded people has already started. I have been given the choice of one being released in a safe area or two
joining the forces of the Simbian Liberation Army and fighting for my freedom and the freedom of all oppressed
people. I have chosen to stay and to fight. I have been given the name Tanya after a comrade who fought alongside
Chay in Bolivia. It is in the spirit of Tanya that I say patria omeos which is uh translates to homeland or
death we shall overcome. Whoa, that's different. >> Super duper different. >> That's different.
>> And not what her parents expected. >> Imagine being like so excited that you did all the things and you've been
working so hard for 2 months to get your child back. >> I No, that's that's what we really need
to focus on for a second here. 60 days >> and they were working hard to get her back
>> and and realizing, okay, because as every single day went on, okay, she's and we were getting these tapes, she's
still alive. She's saying they're not hurting her. We're we're going to get her back. Maybe we'll get her back. And
then I'm sure they had their bad days where they thought they would never get her back. And they go through all of
this emotional turmoil for 60 days. And they get a communication. She's coming back. She's going to be released.
Awesome. And then one day later, she has completely flopped and is joining the army that
>> that kidnapped her in the middle of the night. >> Have no words for it. Like that would
just be >> how do you >> shattering? >> Also, this is the early '7s, so you weren't just calling up your your
therapist on speed dial. >> No. >> How do you cope with that? Like this is just that's shattering.
>> That's when you literally sit in your living room and stare at a wall for seven hours and just think how is my
life come to this >> truly. >> How is this my that's one of those moments you and I were talking about the
other day when you're just like >> how is this my life? >> How is this my what? Why is this
happening? Like what's going on? >> Why? >> Yeah. Like just like what the I I feel
for her family. >> Yeah. So for those working the case and those who had been close to Patty, the
latest recording was just about the last thing any of those people would have expected, she obviously had that
rebellious streak in her teen years. And she loved going against the grain. >> But this was a lot more serious than
dating an older man or messing around with the nuns at boarding school. >> Yeah,
>> the SLA was a known terrorist organization. And don't forget, they had murdered one person.
>> That's the thing. >> And she's saying she's joining forces with them. understands their message and
wants to be part of it. >> Like, damn, >> that's horrifying. >> Yeah. >> So, in a statement to the press, Randph
Hurst emphatically stated that he and his wife did not believe Patty had joined the group willingly. He said,
"We've had her for 20 years. They've had her 60 days, and I don't believe she's going to change her philosophy that
quickly and that permanently, and I'll never believe it until she comes to me or her mother and is free to talk
without any interference whatsoever." At that time, if her choice is to become a
member of an organization like this, we will still love her and she's free to do
whatever she wants. >> I mean, that's some parent [ __ ] right there. >> That's some [ __ ] dad.
>> That's on some dad [ __ ] >> Just being like, I just want her to walk up to me and tell me with no
interference and then I will still love her >> and I will free to do what she want.
She's an adult. I love her. >> Like, like, wow. >> Wow. >> That's >> Wow. Wow. >> That's That man loves his daughter. Wow.
Whoa. Yeah. So, obviously in the 50 years since Patty's abduction, mental health professionals and law enforcement
have come a long way, and we've learned a lot about how a person can basically end up brainwashed in a pretty short
amount of time. >> Oh, yeah. Radicalization can happen pretty [ __ ] quick if it's intense
enough. And you know I she's sitting in a closet for a month and then she's around all of these people who are her
and she has she's not talking to any outside forces and it's just 24/7 >> echo chamber of what they want her to
hear. >> Mhm. >> And they're like endearing themselves to her. >> Yeah. >> Get getting on a level talking about
literature and art with her. That's really going to cement it right there. >> Absolutely. So now we know that she was
most likely brainwashed, but in 1974, the idea that in just 2 months somebody could trade in their own beliefs and
morality and join in on a terrorist organization seemed impossible. People were like, "What?" Like, "No,
>> no, of course not." >> Yeah. Patty clearly stated in her message, though, she said, "I have never
been forced to say anything on tape, nor have I been brainwashed, drugged, tortured, hypnotized, or in any way
confused. It's me the way I want it, the way I see it. >> I mean, like, that's not all true. You
were held in a closet for a little while. >> Yeah, exactly. I would >> I don't think we should say that it was
It's all been great. >> And I would probably think that you were confused when you first
>> I would say that's pretty confusing. Yeah, >> especially since they were keeping a
blindfold. Exactly. >> And not letting you see where you were talking to >> held in near total darkness for um a
long number of days. >> That's pretty confusing. >> Yeah. and torturous I would think
>> in my book. Yeah, everybody has different books. >> Yeah. >> Um I think you and I seem to have
similar books. >> Yeah, we have similar books, I think. >> So, we can agree on that.
>> But you can absolutely have your own book. >> I think her book might have been
different back then. I also think she was brainwashed. Yeah, >> personally. >> But the Hurst and the FBI were
convinced, much like myself, that Patty had been brainwashed into adopting the SLA's mission statement and that once
she was free from their grip, she could finally realize the error of her ways. But it would probably take some time.
>> If you know anything about this story, that's super duper correct. >> Yeah. So, so astutally, you know.
>> Yeah. >> So, you don't just snap out of that. >> She sure didn't. And we're going to talk
about that still. We're not done yet. >> We're not done. >> So, it wasn't just the family and just
the investigators that were very much caught off guard by Patty's statement and her quote unquote decision to join
the SLA. Her friends and her fiance. Oh yeah. >> Also uh pretty shocked at the news of
Tanya. >> Yeah. I mean that would be shocking. >> You know her new found personality and
and you know self. >> Yeah. >> According to friends up until her kidnapping Patty quote would have been
totally bored by something like the SLA. >> Totally bored. They said she quote intensely disliked rhetoric and
stridency especially in women and had no sympathy for true believers. >> Oh my god that's actually funny.
>> I just picture Emily Gilmore. >> What? Yeah. That really >> like just like shut up. Don't radicalize
me. >> I'm bored by that. [ __ ] that. Don't radicalize me. >> Gross. >> Ew. I I dislike especially.
>> I have no sympathy for that. >> Yeah. But in fact, as far as her friends and her fiance knew, she didn't even
read the newspaper and wasn't even particularly interested in politics at all. Especially not the the politics of
Bolivia and Cuba, >> which also makes her a perfect subject for radicalization. She's got nothing.
>> She is uninformed as [ __ ] And when someone has nothing, no foundation for something, you get to build the
foundation and then you get to build the whole house. And do you know how hard it
is to knock down a house and the foundation? >> Well, and you also build it with shock
and awe and that's how you get somebody to tell them all these big scary things.
>> You build that foundation strong. >> Yeah. Exactly. And that's why we should all be educated in politics. Just
saying. >> So years later when she published her own account of the abduction and the and
her time spent in captivity, Patty detailed her full experience and it put a lot of things into context and it put
her actions in a very different light. In addition to the long conversations where she learned about and, you know,
occasionally absorbed the SLA's philosophies, there were other terrible, awful things that she went through
during her time there, including coerced or forced sex, aka rape, with at least two of the men in the group.
>> Yeah, that paints it differently. >> Exactly. She had countless menacing interactions with Donald, which I can
only imagine were beyond terrifying. But at that time, all the press and the public had to go by was what Patty and
the others were saying in their communications. And those statements at that time were pretty direct because she
had been brainwashed. >> Yeah. >> Whether anybody believed that she was being held against her will or not, she
wasn't captive at this point. And by midappril, there wouldn't be much room left to doubt that. On the morning of
April 15th, Vincent Gley, a security officer at a bank in San Francisco, had just unlocked the doors to the bank for
the day, and he never even took notice of the small group of hippies standing around their car across the street.
>> Oh no. >> It was only about 45 minutes later that he saw them as Donald Dreeze, Patty
Hurst, Nancy Ling, Patricia Sultic, and Camila Hall rushed into the bank with guns drawn. So now she she's just she's
in it. >> She's in it. Defreeze pointed his gun around the room and at all 18 members in
the branch while he yelled to them, "This is a holdup. The first [ __ ] who don't lay down on the
floor gets shot in the head." >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. Obviously not wanting to get hurt,
all the employees hit the [ __ ] deck. >> Yeah. >> And laid face down. But upstairs on the
second floor, the bank manager, Jim Smith, was there and he heard all this [ __ ] wild ass noise. So he flipped on
the switch that turned the security cameras on. >> That's where you get those uh those
pictures. >> Yeah. Google Patty. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know. >> Yeah. >> So with Nancy Ling and Patty Hurst
controlling the crowd, the others jumped the counter and started filling their bags with cash from the drawers. Just
when they thought they had everything under control though, two new customers entered the bank completely unaware of
what was going on. Caught off guard by their arrival, Nancy Ling swung around and just fired wildly in their
direction. >> The [ __ ] >> She hit one of the man one of the men in the hand and the other in his rear.
>> Oh my god. >> And sent them scurrying back out the door toward the sidewalk. >> They just come into the bank.
>> Yeah. So, they just she just shot two people. >> Cool. Despite NY's panic and wildfiring
though, Patty seemed to be exhilarated by the experience and was literally wielding a machine gun in full view of
the security camera, which like you just said, >> that single now iconic image of Patty
carrying a machine gun would come to represent the entire story. >> Yeah. >> In the minds of America for decades to
come, even now, people look at that and are like, >> "That's it." >> Yeah. Yeah. So, definitely Google that
picture if you haven't seen it. It's insane. So, after cleaning out the drawers of cash, um, which back then
was, uh, $10,660 in total, the group made their way toward the door with Patty shouting,
"This is Tanya, Patty Hurst." as they rushed outside of the bank. >> That's just dumb.
>> Yeah. >> Like, I I got to be real with you. I'd be like, "Well, that was stupid. That
was a dumb way to end it." >> It was super dumb. Outside, four other SLA members were waiting in the car.
They all piled in and they fled the scene back in the direction of their safe house. Later that afternoon, the
press broke the story of the bank robbery obviously, but there was no mention of Patty just yet. Instead,
police focused on the organization and the professionalism of the robbers and all that. But the next morning, more
news reports of the robbery started hitting. And this time, there wasn't a lot of attempt to minimize Patty's
involvement and the likely motive behind the robbery. Captain Mortimer Mckenry. >> Yeah.
>> Everybody say that with me. One, two, three. Mortimer McKinley. >> Yes. Correct.
>> All his only choice in life was to become a police captain. >> Yeah. Or the president of the United
States. >> Something very uh impressive. >> Mortimer is a great name. >> It also makes me think of Tinsley
Mortimer. >> There you go. Another important character. >> It's two ends of the spectrum.
>> Yeah, it is. So anyway, Mortimer Mckenry told the press, "We are discussing the
possibility very thoroughly that this was a stage job to show off Patty Hurst as a member of their ranks."
>> No, that makes sense. >> Which like >> I I can understand like why they would
think that. >> Yeah. I It probably was Yeah. >> a good amount of the motive. >> Like I Why would they put her in that if
they didn't want to show her off? >> Exactly. You know, and why And also why would she scream
>> I was just going to say >> it was me, Patty Hurst. Y'all >> what up y'all? Patty Hurst. Anya in the
house and then she just leaves. >> We got Patty Hurst on the track. Forget London.
>> Dude, that just makes me think of I can always bring it back to TV uh or parks
and wreck when the um DJ blunts >> and he's like Tom Hammerford is in the building.
>> Patty Hurst is in the building now. She's leaving. >> That's what it felt like.
>> That's what I was like, that's dumb. No, it really was. >> Like, not dumb as in like, oh no, you're
going to get caught. It's like, no, it's just dumb. >> It's just a dumb thing to say. Like,
stop it. >> Like, hey, so I hate that. >> It's tom foolery. >> It is. >> It's buffoonery.
>> Nonsense. >> Ridiculousness. >> Ridiculous. >> So, investigators were willing to
acknowledge that Patty was in the bank at the time of the robbery, but they still weren't willing to rule out the
possibility that she still might have been there against her will. And to back that up, it's a good point. An FBI agent
pointed out that in the security camera footage, there's somebody right behind her holding a gun. There sure is.
>> So, it's like like they've cropped. A lot of times you'll see that cropped photo of just her.
>> Yeah. >> Standing there. Right behind her in the full picture is a person in full get up
wearing a using a gun. >> And I'm pretty sure that's actually Donald Def. >> So, it's like
>> So, the leader of the SLA. >> Yeah. And the one that like scared the [ __ ] out of her the most.
>> Exactly. So, >> so, but regardless, US Attorney James Browning told the press, "If she was
involved and the investigation shows that, we're going to charge her as a bank robber."
>> I mean, yeah. >> Which, yeah, you were there, >> of course. >> So, until that point, the only evidence
that anybody had that Patty joined the SLA was her own voice on those recordings indicating as much. But the
camera footage from the bank was starting to make things harder for her friends and family. Yeah. Even they were
starting to wonder if she had really ingratiated herself into a terroristic group or a terrorist group, excuse me.
Randph Hurst said, "It's something that I think is one of the most vicious things I have ever seen or ever had
happen to me." >> Damn. >> Like that's so gut-wrenching. >> Imagine, and again, like we're going to
go through this. Your daughter's been held captive for 60 days. You think you're getting her back. She says, "Nah,
I've joined this army. My name's Tanya now." And then you see her holding a [ __ ] machine gun in the middle in
full like revolutionary garb >> holding up a bank. >> Yeah. And then she leaves being like
>> screaming proudly that she's Tanya. >> DJ Blunts is in the building. Like that's
>> direct quote. Like for the way he said that for him to say like I think it's one of the most vicious things I have
ever seen or ever had happen to me. Like that is like seeing your child like that.
>> Yeah. >> After you've been trying so hard for months and like just devastated that
they've been kidnapped. >> Yeah. >> Wondering what they're going through trying to get them back and then you see
them like that. That must just be like >> what do you even do? >> Because that's how you grieve that.
>> Well, that's the thing. It's like you think of two possible outcomes when I'm
sure you're like I'm sure you think of two possible outcomes when your kid is kidnapped. One, you're going to get them
back hopefully. Or two, unfortunately, they will be killed. >> Yeah. >> You never have it on your [ __ ] bingo
card that they're going to join a terrorist organization >> technically. >> They'll be free, quote unquote, but be
become a part of this horrible thing. >> Yeah. Like be indoctrinated into this awful situation.
>> I'm sure nobody ever saw that coming. >> No. But in the days that followed, the
FBI released wanted posters featuring photos of everybody who was involved in the in the bank robbery. But they were
clear that unlike the others who were wanted for armed robbery, Patty was simply considered a material witness at
that time. >> Between the news of the robbery, though, and the circulation of the posters, the
public was starting to question the official narrative that Patty had been brainwashed and was being held against
her will. >> Yeah, I I get why it's a little hard to >> Yeah. You see somebody holding a machine
gun in in the middle of a bank robbery. Absolutely. And remember that's not really something people were seeing all
the time back then. >> Exactly. >> So on April 20 honestly that's not really something we see all the time
now. >> Yeah. Not bank robberies. >> Well being kidnapped. >> No we don't see that a lot.
>> Joining in on >> No >> terrorist organizations like that's not common. >> No for sure.
>> No. I think we can all say that with Gustau. So on April 24th, Patty herself chimed in on the question of her
particip participation. >> Patricia pressure >> of her participation in the activities
and yet another recording. >> What did she have to say about her participation? >> Her participation. Oh, she said about my
participation. >> About my participation. >> She's a great people. This is Tanya. On
April 15th, my comrades and I expropriated. >> It's the comrades for me. >> One thing one thing about me is that I
just think the word comrades is wild. It's well that's it's the comrades for me that I'm like comrades
>> like what's going on >> friends loved ones on a guest comrades >> like when she said like a former comrade
I was like oh no where are we >> cuz she's using it in like the soldier term >> yeah it's not not feeling great
>> not like my my good girl J >> my camaraderie like Sabrina Carpenter >> yes you know
>> exactly so she anyway she said on April 15th my comrades and I expropriated $10,6602
two cents from the Sunset branch of Hibernia Bank. I was positioned so that I could hold the customers and bank
personnel who were on the floor. My gun was loaded and at no time did any of my comrades intentionally point their guns
at me. I am obviously alive as and well. As for being brainwashed, the idea is ridiculous to the point of being beyond
belief to the It's really not. >> I don't know about that. >> To those people who still believe that I
am brainwashed or dead, I see no reason to further defend my position. I am a soldier in the people's army. Patria
Omeeramos, which is the whole thing that she said earlier. >> And then she said >> Patty Hurst is leaving the build. She
said DJ blunts on the track. >> It's never going to get old. >> It's not. Now, so even still with that,
there was still debate about whether or not she was willing to be part of this because it this is a multi-layered onion
here that I don't think will ever really be understood because it's like >> you can be brainwashed and still believe
>> that you're not >> in the brainwashing. Like you can still believe in like that's kind of what
brainwashing is all about is making you believe that you believe the things that
they want you to believe which is brainwashing. >> It's a cult. Look at that. >> So it's all a vicious cycle.
>> Yeah. >> Of like >> Yeah. She could be brainwashed and acting completely outside of herself or
she's brainw she could be brainwashed and acting willfully because she believes the things she's been
brainwashed by. >> Exactly. So there's so many different levels here. >> It really is an onion
>> that it's like it's this is by no means in my personal opinion a black and white
>> no >> situation that we can just be like nope she was acting like this and that's why
like >> I think there's so many things going on here >> to bring it back to the early days of
morbid. It's an evil onion. >> It is an evil onion. This one's most evil onions.
>> It's a very evil onion. So yeah, like people were like, I don't know what's going on here. Brainwashed, no valid.
Brainwashed, yes. Brainwashed, brainwashed. I don't know. But her parents were still unconvinced. And they
argued that she was suffering the effects of quote prolonged stress, fatigue, and demoralization, which
>> which I think they are very valid in that. >> And also, they know their daughter.
That's the thing. And also, yeah, prolonged stress, lack of sleep, and demoralization, being held in a closet,
being raped, that'll do it. Yeah. >> So, it's like they are 100% correct in that assertion.
>> Mhm. >> But by MidMay, there would no longer be any doubt. And that we're going to talk
about in part three. >> [ __ ] We're going to talk about the events of Midmay and part three. This is
a very interesting case. I knew the name Patty Hurst. I knew I knew the general like idea that there's like a Stockholm
cinder kind of vibe to this. >> I didn't know all the details. >> I had no idea. I had never read further
into it. So, >> I hadn't either. >> I'm now admonishing myself for not breathing further into it, but
>> Well, don't because here >> too interesting. I know. I'm finding it out in the best way possible. So,
>> oh my god, I love that. >> This is very interesting. >> It really is. >> And wow, I can't wait to see what
happens next. >> Stay tuned for part three. Go get your tickets for >> Go get your tickets
>> the second morbid show. Send us your teacher list. We're going to do our best
to work on those. Go get the the butcher game. It's out now. >> You can put it in your pocket.
>> You can. I demonstrated. So, >> she literally did if it's pretty great. >> She put it in her pants. You should put
it in your pockets. But >> yeah, you you'll want to keep up with the story because
>> you know, you just do. You want to keep up with that story. >> You know that um Tik Tok t You know that
Tik Tok trend right now that everybody's like, "Why do you write like you're running out of time?" Alina writes like
she's running out of time. >> That we need to do that trend. >> I I'd like to. You could be Alexander
Hamilton. >> Yeah. >> I'll be Eliza. >> Eliza. >> Okay. So, we hope you keep listening
>> and we hope you >> keep it weird. >> Keep it as weird as us. We're so weird. >> Yeah,
>> we're so weird. >> We're so weird. >> We're so random. Bye-bye. [Music] [Music]
[Music]

When nineteen-year-old Patty Hearst was kidnapped from her apartment in February 1974, everyone assumed the heiress had been abducted for the purposes of ransom. However, in the days that followed, Hearst’s kidnappers, the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA), made themselves known when they sent a letter demanding the Hearst family provide food to every needy family in California.

For nearly two months, the SLA held Patty Hearts captive, or so it seemed to the public. But when the group’s demands were met and Hearst was given the opportunity to leave, the teenager shocked the world when, rather than flee her captors, she joined their ranks in support of their cause. Hearst’s decision set in motion a chain of events that resulted in several acts of explosive violence and forever changed the way we think about victims of kidnapping. Yet in all the analysis of the case over the last fifty years, one question remains unanswered, and possibly unanswerable: Was Patty Hearst a willing accomplice to the SLA or was she a brainwashed victim trying to survive a traumatic ordeal?

Thank you to Dave White ( @thatqueerwolf ) of @bringmetheaxepod for research and writing assistance!

Brief Summary

Elena and Ash discuss their new podcast era, Patty Hearst's kidnapping, and her radicalization into the SLA, culminating in a bank robbery.

Key points

New Era at Morbid. Elena and Ash discuss revitalizing their podcast space and bringing in positive energy.
Patty Hurst's Captivity. Patty Hurst is kept in a small closet, facing emotional turmoil and fear.
Chilling Birthday Revelation. Patty realizes her kidnappers know personal details about her, heightening her fear.
Patty's Frustration. Patty expresses disbelief in her parents' efforts to rescue her, saying, 'I don't believe you're doing anything at all.'
Unexpected Turn. Patty's recorded message takes a shocking political turn, urging her parents to warn the oppressed.
Patty's Shocking Transformation. After 60 days of captivity, Patty Hurst shocks everyone by joining her captors, the SLA.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Things are just [ __ ] awesome right now.

Elena expresses excitement about their current situation.

2:18WatchSep 9, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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