Delphi Murders: Leaks & Deception /// Part 1 /// 726 | Forensic Files

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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
as always is a man who says that your New Year's resolution should not be to change yourself but to be yourself here
is the cap yeah don't call it a comeback it's good to be seen and good to see you
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sure you subscribe to our show off the record on patreon or apple subscription and Colonel that's enough of the
business all right everybody gather around grab a chair air grab a beer let's talk some true
crime Richard Allen is charged with killing Abby Williams and Libby German haagan ritualistic sacrifice tied
to odinism according to this court document Richard Allen's defense attorneys claimed there was quote an obscene
amount of evidence linking odinism to the crime scene where the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were
found according to Allen's defense attorneys evidence at the crime scene like sticks
and branches arranged in symbols around the girls bodies and another symbol on a
tree nearby point to Abby and Libby being sacrificed in quote some sort of pagan
[Music] ritual main deity is the god Odin today the beliefs have become popular with
white supremacy groups Richard Allen is charged with killing Abby Williams and Libby
German Alan confessed to murdering the girls to his wife while talking to her on the phone from prison from
prison Alan confessed from prison on Monday February 13th 2017 at 2:07 p.m. 14-year-old Liberty
German posted a picture of her best friend 13-year-old Abigail Williams to Snapchat the photo of Abigail best known
to friends and some relatives as Abby shows a youngster walking across the moanin High Bridge located in a rural
part of Carroll County Indiana Liberty fondly called Libby by many of those closest to her captured
the image of her friend and using her cell phone she posts the picture on social
media the two girls were not heard from again after that the family searched deep into the dark night looking for
their girls sadly it would not be until the next day a little after noon when the girl's bodies were found about a
half mile or so away from the moanin High Bridge someone had moved them from the
very public property of the bridge to one of the quiet rarely traveled corners of Ron Logan's large privately owned
property it was quickly ruled a double homicide and the search for the killer or Killers started in Carroll County and
then spread across the nation after many twists and a nearly six-year investigation involving several
law enforcement agencies which included the Indiana State Police and the FBI an arrest was announced it was on October
31st 200 22 that the Indiana State Police finally announced that local Carrol County
Indiana resident Richard Allen had been charged with two counts of Murder in the
case he was in his 40s at the time of the murders and worked at a deli Indiana CVS store he admitted to police
detectives that he was there at the monin High Bridge on the day that the girls were last
seen while he admits to being there at the scene around the time that the girls were last heard from he has pleaded not
guilty to the charges of murder the twist and turns continue in this case even after the arrest that
finally came after so many months years and prayers there's been questions of the
suspect's sanity and safety the introduction of a cult killer ritualistic murders Theory suspected
corruption within Indiana's correctional facilities and leaked to the public murder scene
photographs we are here to bring you up to speed this is true crime garage Richard Allen is charged with
killing Abby Williams and Libby German Allan confessed to murdering the girls to his wife while talking to her
on the phone from prison from prison Alan confessed from prison longtime listeners of off the
Record are already aware of the gentleman joining us here in the garage today he goes by the name fig we've
talked with him he's been one of our allies over the years in this very strange and bizarre Deli double murder
case that's been ongoing unfortunately since 2017 when Abby and Libby were killed and
now that we sit here all these years later with an arrest there's been many updates over the past few months and
some strange news coming out of the Indiana State regarding this case and we thought that we'd bring fig into the
garage with us to have a interesting discussion about all of the updates and things that have happened in this case
and some of it is a bit of a delay in in The Not So Speedy process of of the justice for these girls it's been
delayed for so long now some of it is worth diving into in in very interesting topics of discussion regarding this case
and for me a lot of these topics came about in September of 20203 and as we close out 2023 and
welcome in 2024 we also have some interesting Court proceedings that will be taking place
hopefully in January scheduled for January and I'm hoping for for no more delays in this case so welcome once
again into the garage fig hey thanks for for having me guys it's always a pleasure yeah lots lots of things going
on with this case right now and Captain one thing we wanted to talk about in this case that's been ongoing since the
or early goings in this case is the social media Madness and I know fig you're seeing certain things that maybe
we haven't seen and we've certainly seen our fair share or much more than we wanted to see throughout the years but
let's talk a little bit about the social media Madness that surrounds this case so yeah I think what happened with this
case people got into it with good intentions maybe wanting to help where people started trying to identify a
person of interest per se and then once the Richard Allen arrest happened and if
they've already stated who their Person of Interest was in public on social media or YouTube or a podcast then when
it didn't turn out that way I think what happened was they didn't want to lose maybe their listeners or credibility so
instead of just saying hey uh maybe we were wrong because we didn't have all the evidence seemed like they doubled
down on whoever that person of interest was so instead of them being wrong what they did was say nope it's law
enforcement is wrong they're corrupt they're the problem not me I'm the all knowing one so it just turned into this
almost this game and it just it's been nasty ever since the Richard Allen arrest I don't know what you guys have
noticed well me and you have talked about it several times to have this position as a a spectator really to say
that you know more than law law enforcement knows in this case is just absolutely ridiculous yeah there's no
sense to it I think we talked about kind of The Wheel of Fortune analogy on the phone where if you're looking at the
letter board there as a Outsider looking in we only have one or two letters up on
that Wheel of Fortune board and law enforcement's going to have a lot more than us now could they guess wrong could
they make mistakes sure but they have a lot more information than we do so sometimes we have to drop the ego and
just follow their lead but also if they are making a mistake you know we could we could realize that well and the other
thing too you guys are both spoton there yes law enforcement does have more than
we have will they have they made mistakes yeah I think we've seen mistakes or errors that they've made
along the way but you know one of my favorite quotes is an an error only becomes a mistake when one fails to
correct it and so we ended up with an arrest in this case and I think it's a lot of what you're saying fig as far as
the motivation behind some of these really loud voices and frankly loud annoying voices to me it's we we begged
and we're pleading for an arrest for all of these years and we finally get one and you're right
and it's like I think that for some people and this is not the only case that I've seen this type of behavior
this type of behavior is Amplified times 10 but I think that it's one of those situations where you have this
polarizing case this case that captivates uh a town a city a region even parts of the nation and because it
BEC such a big case on that front I think that there are are a small very small percentage of people out
there that think that this case has to be something incredibly complicated it has to be there must be a reason why it
took forever for there to to be an arrest that was made frankly this is not the movies okay yes are there
complicated cases out there yes are there complicated complex perpetrators murder suspects out there yes the the
Zodiac Killer comes to mind right away complete off the rails complex individual that's that's making a game
out of his killings this unfortunately is and I say unfortunately just simply because it happened because
the loss of life here but it's we said this from from Jump Street this case to me never appeared to be that complicated
the investigation was going to be complicated but the case itself never appeared to be that complicated it it
from day one it appeared to me to be a sexually motivated homicide and likely I thought given the
location the venue if you will that it was probably a stranger on Stranger crime and and I say that not because I
felt that right away but after days of this thing within days of this thing not being solved not having a hot lead on a
good suspect that felt to me like we're charting into the Waters of stranger on Stranger crime and I think that the
general public need to pump the brakes a little bit and understand how complicated that is for law enforcement
so if you wanted a complicated case if you wanted a complicated suspect good news you got one you got one stranger on
Stranger crimes are incredibly difficult for law enforcement to to crack and for
for reasons that are both obvious and not so obvious to the general public but you know the thing that drives me mad is
the the leaps that some people are willing to make to support their argument this is not your
case this is not your birden to bear this is not your Great War that you are fighting okay this you you want to tell
me the the a dead man who who and this this is going to start to lead into our next topic here but you want to tell me
that a dead man that was financially uh not sound that was had Rough Around the Edges uh personality difficulties with
relationships you want to tell me that he had such a he has such a grip and a power hold on so many people of this
community that we got to start getting into some weird and bizarre crazy conspiracy theories it
just doesn't add up man it doesn't add up I think that's what happens when you start with a conclusion you start with
yep Ron Logan did this and then you try and fill in as many blanks to make it point that direction instead of just
looking at it holistically and seeing or taking a new evidence to me the Richard
Allen arrest that is new evidence that needs to go into your your uh you know your whole dot process where remember
the day that Richard Allen was arrested I thought it was awesome how Becky posted that that image of the old bridge
guy sketch like we got him and then I saw other people posting nope it's absolutely not him it's still Ron Logan
it's not Richard Allen on the day one of his arrest when it was announced like how would you even know that no one knew
if he was guilty or innocent at that point let's take a step back let some information come in and then we can make
decisions so like when the the probable cause affidavit for his arrest came out there I got some more information then
wow this guy was on the bridge and there was a picture of a man on the bridge that day right then you could start
logically piecing things together and making a decision well in a sad State of Affairs and really some bizarre and
disgusting Behavior as far as I'm concerned you know before even before Richard Allen was arrested I spoke to
several people in the Carol County that lived in Carrol County and they told me Nick you won't believe what's going on
here there are we we have you know Flyers still up justice for the girls Seeking Justice for the girls help
wanted information wanted do you know these this man those type of Flyers posted up around Deli and throughout
Carroll County and I had several individual independently of one another tell me the exact same thing can you
believe that there are people in this community that are going around and taking down the flyers before the arrest
of Richard a mind you taking down these flyers because they are telling everyone
I'm taking it down because the real killer is dead and here here's from where I sit though fig and and
Captain what I see as far as the social media Madness goes the it seems like the
loudest most aggressive behavior is coming from those that are that don't know the families that are not from Deli
that are not from Caroll County that are from other states in fact are you guys seeing the same thing yeah uh for sure
it it's weird that that's happening and it's another way of saying it it's all the people who guessed wrong on who the
killer was I would say that they're very vocal and they're making the noise they're trying to prove that corruption
took place place and it's just it's appalling I don't know what your thoughts are Captain yeah I I think I
differ from you guys a little bit because I I do think these voices on the Internet or through YouTube's whether
it's through podcast or it's just people making posts online I I think initially
all this came from because law enforcement was asking the public for help so people felt invested into this
case and then I I think also law enforcement has made a couple missteps we have the change we have they release
one sketch we have a change in sketch they don't give us really much of an explanation doesn't seem like they give
the family much of an explanation of why the the sketch changed and then when they do make arrest I think they made a
misstep by saying well there also might be somebody else involved so anybody that made a predic
or said you know there's a bunch of evidence that points to to to Ron Logan or to some other individual that was
there that day that's their argument well hey law enforcement told us it could be Richard Allen plus somebody
else you know now are people going about it the wrong way or or speaking about it
the wrong way possibly but I I I do think initially all this came from a place of wanting to help and to to want
to find Justice for Abby and Libby and that's where my head was too I thought that's how I explained away or
rationalized some of that behavior away for the longest time these are people that just want to help and but
but then it continued after the arrest and it actually it changed in and morphed into something
different and that was surprising it's shocking some of the behav and I don't want to really
get to a point where we start singling out certain types of behavior I think that the people that are super dialed
into this case know what we're talking about and and we need to kind of stay with a a broad brush here because
there's some pretty hardcore people in different Realms of the internet being incredibly aggressive
some talks of even persons spying on people close to the case documenting their movements via pictures and journals and
and time cards and things of that nature and and I don't know that we've been I know that some podcasters and YouTubers
have been kind of s singled out I don't know that we have or we've been mentioned in that group I don't I don't
want to frankly I don't want to fall out of favor or become a target of of any of
these groups because they're they're who know who knows what they they would be capable of but it it's just surprising
to me to see that people so far away geographically to the case are spending this much time and trying to discredit
so many people that are close to the case and frankly the most appalling part is the still the the disgusting
rumors that they're trying to create about some of the family members of the victims I for me I I will never ever be
able to understand how anybody could could do that could say those things it's I guess that they they must have
lived such a nerfy life and never have experienced any kind of tragedy at all that they that because of that maybe
they completely lack compassion for their fellow man right and and Captain said maybe it did start off with
trying to help but then it eventually became about these individuals and and themselves and their ego them being
right but I think what what we're alluding to here is there's a line that could be crossed when you're meddling
into a case and you live in a different County different state I mean it doesn't
matter you you really shouldn't just meddle with with any case don't interfere let law enforcement do their
job if you have tips tip them in but to go in and contact either the prosecution or the defense just to try
and you know sway a decision or or just to meddle with the case when you really don't understand it it just becomes very
problematic and look what happened the the trial got delayed a year now fig you you I think you know more about this
than I do and maybe I'm misspeaking so correct me if I'm wrong but these voices these ideas
these other suspects is it is it true that defense reached out to different content
creators to basically try to create a narrative for their defense yeah I don't know who reached out to who first so it
could have been the content the content creators reaching out to them but yeah there was definitely um some contracts
put in place and some some content creators that were helping out with the defense team I had it verified and I
even knew knew that the defense team was going to be removed about a week before
it actually happened because someone let me know that they got a cease and assist
letter they are one of these content creators I'm talking about so they got the cease and assist before it was
announced that they were gonna that the attorneys were going to be removed from the case so I I'm I'm pretty sure they
were working with them I don't know if I have a big issue with that and and here's why this is my understanding of
that situ sitation it see it does seem bizarre I want I want to throw that out there but my understanding of that
situation is this and this is pretty simplistic here but that you know one one defense can always be an alternate
suspect or a complete alternate Theory presented by the defense opposing the theory or and suspect put forward by the
state that's not unheard of from my understanding of it the defense team the original defense team and we'll get into
more of that in a minute they were reaching out to not just content creators but but also I
believe even chat rooms chat groups and to kind of collectively what I should say is organize and collect and catalog
all of the other discussed theories and suspects out there along the way leading
up to the arrest of Richard Allen is that is that about right fig yeah I'm not saying it it wasn't smart to do
because yeah one of the defense strategies that we'll get into is alternative theories and good
storytelling and that's what they were looking for they were looking for people who could tell a story and who frankly
know the case better than them so it gets into how we were saying these people who follow the case so closely
they've told their lies they've told stories and maybe some of them seem pretty credible so they've already done
some groundwork filling in these gaps where some seem plausible so the defense is was contacting them or getting
contacted by them and said yeah help us weave a story together I think that's kind of what
[Music] [Music] happened I never did anything to harm my daughter or my granddaughter the test is
about to begin please remain still oh man Casey Anthony's parents the lie detector t
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rosettastone.com Garay well and for for those that that like you said f latched on to a suspect fell
head over heels in love with one particular suspect and then when the arrest of Richard Allen came out and it
wasn't their suspect and they now they they can't they can't go through the breakup they they are a complete wreck
and mess and they have to convince everybody that no they were right their suspect is is the one look it's the most
simple thing in the world we've said it since day one in the garage the first thing that you don't do as an armchair
sleuth a web a web detective whatever you want to call us you don't you don't find your suspect and attempt to
build the case around them you I mean we we spoke with John Anderson last month about the John B Rams case because he
was so close to Lou Smith who we admire and respect his career so much unfortunately rip L SMI is no longer
with us and he worked The John Bay Ramsey case as good as anybody in my opinion he had a list two pages long of
suspects in that case that's what that's what a real detective does you you you don't exclude anybody until you can
exclude them you always make the mistake always make the greatest of Errors when
you hone in on a specific individual and then you want to put together a PowerPoint presentation of why he's the
best suspect you know I'm not trying to to Pat myself on the back here too much but we talked about the deli case on
True Crime garage for five years and I wrote a damn book about it never mentioned anybody by name ever ever once
because that's the biggest harm and foul you can make in any of these investigations people would ask me who's
your guy and after the arrest well were you aware that they that Richard Allen was a good suspect no no I wasn't hell
no the police weren't even aware that he was a good suspect and and I I agree with the captain 100% I think that I
don't think that that was I don't think it's law enforcement's fault for saying that other people could still we've not
ruled out the possibility that players could still be involved I don't think it's their fault I agree with what he
says I think that that is is a bit of the Genesis of some of of the people that are still barking and honking as
loud as they can about their suspect opposed to Richard Allen but I think that that was a reality that maybe
people weren't willing to accept but the science of it and their investigation leading up to the day that they arrested
Richard Allen it was an incomplete investigation it was an incomplete narrative that Richard Allen killed two
girls in the woods that day it was an incomplete theory that they had they had a lot of blanks still in that theory it
wasn't that they locked in on Richard Allen and that they they they built a case against him no they decided to go
and get a search warrant and found evidence that said he had to have been he he was either there or he killed them
there there's no ifs ANS or buts about it he was either there or he killed them now we have to make an arrest and so I
think that's why they say that that was a variation to me of saying that our investigation into this specific
individual is incomplete yeah and there's there's reasons that we could definitely get into I I think they say
that I I've seen prosecutors say it in other cases too that there there might be other actors involved even in the
Steven Avery case even after they arrested him and his nephew I read that the prosecutor they still said hey hey
there might still be other people involved there reasons why they want to keep it open and not just saying right
when they make an arrest yep that's it we knew it was him and it's no one else thank you goodbye right they they still
want to keep the door open and I think sometimes that phrasing is confusing for the public because it makes it seem
like there's another individual that's responsible for the murders or was there and when they say there might be another
actor involved could just be that somebody knew this information that Richard Allen told maybe he told his
daughter maybe he told one of his friends there could be another actor involved as far as maybe not so much the
the the killings themselves but maybe covering up and and helping protect Richard Allen so he doesn't get arrested
and there's some people out there that are scratching their heads and they say captain how does that work well U let me
give a a prime example and a real life true example of how that works how another player could be
involved in the April Tinsley murder before they finally found her killer they were looking for and trying to
crowdsource and using the public to try to help find the murderer of April Tinsley and I like I like examining it
from this angle because it's it before before the murders of liby and Abby I think one could make a strong
argument that the murder of ail Tinsley and probably the Burger Chef murders were the two or two of the most infamous
unsolved homicide cases in the state of Indiana so later they would arrest an individual and this was only after doing
the familial DNA which was not something that was that they were typically doing in
Indiana in the state of Indiana prior to this so when they finally make the arrest we learn a couple of things that
were possibilities in in this case so John Miller is the one who was arrested and he's arrested in July of
2018 prior to that they had done they had gone to everywhere you could think of to try to get help in solving this
little girl's murder okay so this was investigated by the FBI there were brought in they went to America's Most
Wanted crime watch Daily the genetic detective uh show was was after the fact after the arrest but they reached out to
to everyone that they could to try to crowdsource this thing the America's Most Wanted on the April Tinsley case is
fascinating to watch that is when they start really telling the public like here's all a bunch of new information
that's new to the public but not new to our investigation we've been holding on all of this stuff for for years hoping
that something would come of it and now we've decided Last Resort public please help us so in one
of the the bits of information that was new to the public was a picture so th this criminal this murderer John Miller
he took a picture of himself exposing his the lower half of his body and left it with a threatening note to a little
girl years later they knew based off of scient ific evidence that that note that
threatening note was written and left by the same person that killed April Tinsley in the background of that
photograph you could see a bed spread police were were honing in on that and telling the public look either identify
the man in this Photograph or could you identify this bed spread that you can see behind the individual another player
involved and we do not know because John Miller has never expanded on this and his mother is dead she passed
before he was arrested but it later came out that it's believed that his mother recognized the
bed spread in the picture on the news and called him not knowing we we cannot say 100% conclusively that she knew that
that he killed April Tinsley but what we can say is know based off of several sources she told John Miller if you
still got that bed spread you should probably get rid of it so that would be an example of
players involved without having 100% direct knowledge that the person was the actual
killer right so you guys are making great points it's because there's other bad actor doesn't mean it's there's a
murderer another person involved in the murders there's accessory after the fact
there's there's other criminal activity such as obstruction of justice uh failure to report a crime aiding and
abetting tampering with evidence withholding information such as the mom and even financial support if someone
helped um you know with with money so that they could get away or hide out or you know some logistical support there's
things like that that that are crimes and that are you're participating in the murders but not by doing the actual
murdering doing the actual murdering and they also say Bad actors because they want to keep the investigation open
which is smart because you don't want to get told as we alluded to earlier about
uh saying that there was tunnel vision and they didn't do due diligence on all these other suspects right that they
were locked in that law enforcement were locked in on on Ron Logan and they didn't look at anyone else because the
defense will use that against you later on in court but also while you say there's other Bad actors involved
because it keeps investig a open like you said it it could open up more tips uh more witnesses might come forward
when you give out certain information like in the case that you mentioned um resource allocations money
uh know law enforcement it's a it's a business and if you say the case is closed well they're going to take out
funding they're going to think that no n you no longer need funding to support this case so you don't want that uh you
want to keep getting funds to keep doing investigations keep going through tips sometimes you might need even more
resources once once an arrest is made um and yeah so those are kind of reasons to
say that there are other Bad actors involved and that you want to keep the investigation open and all those other
possibilities that you just mentioned there fig makes me wonder about a very specific item that the state would love
to have in this case and I'm basing this off of the search warrants that were for
Ron Logan's property and the search War warrant for Richard Allen's house if you
read through if you read word for word through those search warrants through those affidavits you will find that
police were looking for a specific electronic device yeah yeah do you agree with me on that fig a specific
electronic device that they did not find at Ron Logan's house or they would have
arrested him to my knowledge they have not found that item at Richard Allen's house either
and so where we say there could be somebody who's done something in this case I here we sit we wonder what's up
with that electronic device and is that something that we'll we will hear about and I hate to phrase it this way
but should this thing ever get to trial yeah and that's the thing we don't know yet what they found at Richard Allen's
house that's that's what I would that's what I want to know is what what items did they actually find we know
what was put out there was the items that they took but what did they find on those that's still unknown they took
hard drives they took computers they took flash drives uh they took a bunch of cell phones knives but we don't know
yet if one of those were the murder weapon if maybe the electronic device you know they found some evidence on um
on one of those flash drives or even in his car that they looked at they I know they swabbed seat belt
I think they swabbed in the trunk of his car maybe he put the murder weapon in there and they Ed luminol and they you
know got a hit and they found something we still don't know well I'd love to hear the confession to his wife yeah to
his wife and his mom and I mean yes con context matters for sure I want to hear it too so I'm trying not to make too
much judgment but as I sit and try to think how do you say it five and six times you know the defense acknowledg
this and and the prosecution acknowledge this like how do you do that five or six
times like without being incriminating like is it a are you joking five to six times are you being sarcastic five to
six times like how does that go down without being incriminating of yourself Without Really Trying to confess to it
and I'll hear well false confessions happen all the time well I don't know about all the time but that's usually
when you're confessing to law enforcement during an interrogation or a false confession is some Looney person
calling up saying that they did it now confessing over the phone to your wife and mother that's a lot different after
you've been arrested and incarcerated for that that specific crime and I I I love that you say F that uh you're
presented with this idea from others that false confessions happen all the time I'm I'm with you can you imagine if
they did happen all the time how messed up the the justice system would be we nothing would never get to court right
right I don't think people realize how many people get arrested for murder per year in the United States and you start
looking at the stats on false confessions it's probably smaller than people think so then we get this in
interesting information we're going to back up to September right so mid to late September this odinis Theory comes
out and what that leads into is some Discovery or photos that are leaked in early October so I'll give you the kind
of short of it and then we'll get into this mess here so the defense attorneys for Richard Allen they in September they
sent out this memorandum in support of a Frank's hearing that they were requesting so during this memorandum or
throughout this memorandum they are outlining an alternative murder theory that the girls were killed in
ritualistic fashion by members of a white supremist cult called odinism later prosecutor Nick mcleland
offered a comment to the media in which he called the theory quote fanciful defense for social media to devour end
quote he described the defense team's 136 page memorandum as quote colorful dramatic and highly unprofessional now
this the timing of this sucked on my end right because I went out to Crime con late September you know my book the deli
murders came out late April early May and so this this bit of information was not it was it was not in
in a form that was fully digestible I would say that's how I would like to catalog it at the time going into crime
con but this was the question that I think I got hit with the most while there was what do you think of this
odinism stuff and if I had to let's pretend that I was doing like a taking a poll right and I'm just simply basing
this off of very brief conversations because I did not want to have conversations with people about this
particular item of the case when as as said I had I cataloged it as not fully digestible at the time right and I do
not love to engage in depth conver in-depth conversation about something that I have not had the time or given
the information or materials to review beforehand but if I were to have taken a poll I would say that out of all the
people that I spoke to or that asked me a question about it I would say about 15% seem to believe in it maybe 20 25%
dismissed it and then everybody else was in the middle didn't really know what to
make of it and I was in a I was in a venue that that had over a thousand people that loved to talk True Crime so
I was in the right place just at the wrong time what were what were your guys's I guess first maybe your initial
reaction to this information when it came out and then how do you feel about it since then um fig you're
our guest so we'll start with you whenever there's new information I I take it in like all right let's let's
see I was just I understood that this was written by the defense and they obviously have motivation to make their
client look innocent so I kept that in the back of my mind but I read through it and it was it was a story and since I
kind of knew some of the people who might have been involved with this and heard some of their stories before it
seemed kind of some recycled things but I was just like well where's the evidence if there's multiple people
there then there should be more likely that DNA is left there could you place these people at the crime scene were
there Witnesses who saw multiple people um it just it didn't seem very likely because the more complex the more
people involved I think the probability of it being likely go down so I thought it was unprofessional
especially when they were they unnecessarily kept saying that know Abby was killed it slow and agonizing and
just things that didn't add any value to the motion that they were trying to write they didn't get to it until the
very end of the 136 pages and just the the title of it members of a pagan Norse religion called odinism hijacked by
white nationalist ritualistically sacrificed Libyan Abbey I just a national Inquirer just popped in my head
when I first read that and it's yeah you have to explain why would White nationalists kill two white girls you
have to explain that and if it was this uh ritual like how often do they do it is it when's the last time that it
happened uh was this their first time and since since we know the family spoken out and said that this trip that
the girls took to the trails was kind of spontaneous right it was they weren't really sure if they uh Libby wasn't sure
if she had a ride so they show up right so how if if it was this uh you know this ritual they didn't have the victims
planned out like how would they know that Libby and Abby were going to be there after they set everything up
they're just hoping that two girls two white girls would walk across I mean it just I don't know it it didn't pass the
BS meter uh for me it was a lot of BS well and fig could you explain to the audience this this was not the first
time that you've heard of this Theory right so there's been it's been talked about especially like the like the f
being on a tree is it an F is it blood spatter no one no one really knows but people's minds run wild um so before
this came out I heard about it and and this will kind of get into some of the leaks because the leaks that we talk
about it it wasn't just the photos of the crime scene that was leaked there was other leaks and this was the
beginning of it where I heard about this maybe starting in June or July and definitely a lot in September that the
Defence was riding the story and they're going to blame it on odinism and I thought it was a joke right we all
get sent lots of stuff and lots of things and rumors and I had to go back after the thing came out and look at
look at the emails and like wow okay they were right but yeah this is one thing that was made clear where I I
thought it was a joke and I didn't even pay much attention to it until it came out and there was rumors that there this
was possibly connected to uh a biker gang and and and that came out years ago and and I think some people then took
that theory and then morphed it into this odinism Theory yeah there's the biker gang stuff you know just people
they see stuff on TV because remember they did that that motorcycle run kind of um in tribute of the girls and people
like oh it's got to be a biker then just because they saw bikers on on TV and they tie in the meth because they
probably watch Sons of Anarchy and they think that bikers mean drugs and there's
a you know history of drug abuse in the area and so they just try to connect all
these things and it just there's no there's no evidence there's nothing that places those people at the crime scene
like it does Richard Allen's shell casing I and one thing you know I know the captain knows this because of his
lengthy music career and I know he's played in similar gigs uh that involve this kind of effort but I think that
something that one thing that the general public may not be fully aware of is that these these biker runs when
you're doing uh a fundraiser they're incredibly valuable it they are very charitable groups and if you're really
trying to raise money quick for for something that is a is a great way to Kickstart your fundraising efforts if
with these different different biker groups the biker runs and things of that nature yeah so it was the the odinist
theory is what the defense try to use to come up with a compelling story to create an alternative Theory and they
made it more like a press release because the very beginning of that memorandum the 136 page Manifesto as
they call it is uh says hey if you never heard of the case before like it starts
with a statement like that meaning it's obvious they were trying to get it out to the public because of course if it
was meant just to go strictly to the courts the people who were supposed to only read it they've heard of the case
before I believe the prosecutors podcast did a great job of breaking down what the motion was supposed to be
about but this was simply just for the defense to put out alternative narrative and I think one of the brilliant things
that they did was and you've seen this in in other biopics with like OJ Simpson and and other cases like that we don't
have to defend everything we have to tell a better story and I think one of the brilliant things that they did was
naming the names that they did name you start diving into Richard Allen online there's not a lot there some of
the people they named there's a lot there and there's a lot of weird stuff and there's a lot of weird online
activity by these individuals and so you get the public I mean they name names and then the public
then goes and looks into these individuals and goes well these guys seem a little crazy yeah yeah that's a
good point I think they named people that were weird and into this odinism stuff the main person that they named
I've heard of him before and always had an alibi and then they even mention it in the memorandum this person had an
alibi they were at work and I believe it was on video like at least her car was so then they brought up Charles Manson
after that well maybe if he wasn't there maybe he was you know the Mastermind behind it had other people do his
bidding for him so it just kind of got like they didn't even fully believe it that they knew he had an
alibi and then they said uh one of the other gentlemen I won't name names was had a really weak Alibi because he was
at home and home is a really weak Alibi and then they proceeded to give Rick Allen's Alibi stating that Rick Allen
was at home so it's like you're saying it's a weak Alibi for one guy but then The Alibi you give Rick Allen during the
time of the murders was he was at home so they kind of contradicted themselves a little bit in that memorandum well and
this whole idea I think was I here's where I think the seed was planted with some people way back when when the
previous prosecutor Robert IES in it several interviews he says that there were signatures at the crime scene the
crime scene was odd it seems like everybody not just honed in on but they they heard that
loud and clear that statement from Robert IES loud and clear what they didn't what they didn't hear or what a
lot of the people did failed to hear is he follows that statement up with saying
well at most murder scenes there's a lot of things that are odd and that that is
so true and given the venue given that this is an outdoor scenario we are going to one would
anticipate seeing different odd aspects of this crime scene than one would in an indoor
murder scene we we have that seed that is planted with some and now it's like holy [ __ ] these by the grace of God two
sticks fell on each other in a in in this form and landed on the ground and holy hell it must mean something and so
I I don't know I I'm with you fig I thought that and I agree with what prosecutor Nick mccleland is saying that
it's a fanciful defense for the social for social media to devour and devour they did um it was colorful as he said
it was dramatic as he said highly unprofessional I don't know it's it is their job to defend this individual it
is their job to to present other theories and maybe even other suspects and here's what's
weird like so if they you know they are reaching out they're talking and they're
kind of cataloging a collective of other theories and suspects and things like that what's interesting about this this
Theory and choosing this one because that's what they did ultimately they chose this Theory over several others
but this one also provides something that many of the other theories does not provide one it pro provides an
alternative suspect suspects and alternative motive and alternative narrative but it
also now tells the public not only did they get the wrong guy but the guy that they got locked up he's a victim too
he's a victim too in this find a little spot in your heart for this guy what here's what I think they did I think
they started going through every podcast every YouTube channel every online forum
and said what story what narrative can we tell that also will account for what our client has already done our client
has now arrested our client has now confessed to multiple individuals how can we we need to find a
narrative that also will account for why he did this why did he confess well he only confessed because these members of
the odinism are connected with law enforcement and connected with prison guards and the prison guards basically
forced him to confess and it's it's a you know the the story is lunacy but they had to find a narrative like you said
they had to do their job and they found a Outlander story that basically connects all the dots you have to really
go out on a limb to believe all this stuff they probably realize that people don't pay much attention to detail
because in that statement about in the memorandum about the prison guards kind of threatening Rick Allen there's a
footnote on that page fit note 15 that basically says well this never actually happened but it could it could have
happened so people skip that footnote over and they're just like oh see the guards threatened him like no read the
whole page read the footnote at the bottom they're sneaky it says that that didn't actually happen but it it it
could have happened well and if we want to go down the road of every time that a a member of the
corrections or an inmate or somebody else being housed in a jail threaten somebody being accused of killing a
child or children that there must be some greater conspiracy involved uh that's a commonplace thing
that happens in not just Carol County Indiana it happens everywhere in damn near every country on this planet when
you have a person accused of these types of crimes it's not terribly uncommon for
them to be threatened or maybe even harassed I I look I can't control the inmate
population I wish that Corrections members of Corrections would not do it but look it happens it's it
it's and it's going to continue to happen and I love what you said there fake because that's the thing when I
thought okay right after crime con con I I told several people there that if they
really poked the bear enough I said look this is all I I've not had time to 100%
go through every everything that is out there at the moment because I think this
actually came out on the day that I was traveling to Orlando and so I'm trying to pick up bits and pieces of it at best
that I can because I kept getting asked questions about it but I when digging into it I same thing it's like okay cool
you guys released three 136 pages that are supposed to be in support of this Theory and while why you should get this
Frank's hearing which which initially correct me if I'm wrong fig that the Frank's hearing was
to dispute that they should have ever gotten the uh search warrant for Richard Allen in the first place and so but
within this 130 page document you multiple times you contradict yourself and also say like it is our
belief and we found reason to believe this but oh there's also no evidence to support this like what like so we're
just going to pull [ __ ] out of thin air now and and present it in in a a court
document yeah I mean and kind of worse than that is when they said that they were they tried to connect them to the
crime scene the the odinist folks and the one guy looked like they were placing the most blame on um who had the
mental capacity of a seven or eight-year-old who lived 130 miles away and didn't have a car that person it
just seemed like like they didn't have enough on them so what they did was they they said that there were horns placed
at the at the crime scene because this individual said that he helped Place horns on one of the victim's heads so
horns or antlers something like that and that we'll get into the crime scene photo stuff but that just not
true there were there weren't any horns or antlers want to thank everybody for joining us
here in the garage for this Deli murders update join us back here in the garage for part two and you know what to do be
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Delphi Murders: Leaks & Deception /// Part 1 /// 726

Part 1 of 2

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On Monday, February 13th, 2017 @ 2:07PM, 14 year old Liberty German posted a picture of her best friend 13 year old Abigail Williams to snap chat. The photo of Abigail shows the youngster walking across the Monon High Bridge located in a rural part of Carroll County, Indiana. The two girls were not heard from again after that. Sadly the next day, the girls bodies were found about a half mile or so away from the bridge. It was quickly ruled a double homicide and the search for the killer or killers started in Carroll County and then spread across the nation.

On October 31st 2022, the Indiana State Police announced that local Carrol County, Indiana resident Richard Allen had been charged with two counts of murder in the case. He has pleaded not guilty to the charges of murder.

The twists and turns continue in this case. There’s been questions of the suspect’s sanity and safety, the introduction of a cult ritualistic murders theory, suspected corruption within Indiana’s correctional facilities, and leaked murder scene photographs. This week we bring everyone up to speed about the on going Delphi Murders case.

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Brief Summary

Richard Allen's arrest in the Abby and Libby case sparks debate over social media theories and the defense's Odinism claims.

Key points

Richard Allen Charged with Murder. Richard Allen is charged with killing Abby Williams and Libby German, with shocking evidence linked to pagan rituals.
The Search for Justice. The search for the killer of Abby and Libby has captivated the nation, leading to a complex investigation.
The Role of Content Creators. Defense teams reached out to content creators to shape narratives for their cases.
The Incomplete Investigation. Discussion on the investigation leading to Richard Allen's arrest and its gaps.
The Mystery of the Electronic Device. Speculation about a specific electronic device sought by police in the investigation.
Odinism Defense Theory. The defense outlines an alternative theory involving a white supremacist cult, Odinism.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and good to see you.

A warm greeting from the host.

2:00WatchJan 2, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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