David Carpenter: The Trailside Killer (Part 2) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is [Music] Morbid. This is morbid. Oh, that's like Trixie and Kata
show. A yeah, cuz it's their show and not yours. Oh, they're so funny. I love them a lot. They make me laugh. They're
kind of like us, actually. They are. I saw I don't know if it's recent or not. I saw a clip of their show the other day
and I think Katia was housesitting for Trixie and Trixie was like a little intense and Katia was like, I can't
handle this. And I was like, that is us. Yes. Not that you're intense about your
home, but you're just intense period. Just intense period. Period. And I feel like the aesthetic is very
Yes. similar. But you're Katya in that sense. Exactly. And I'm a Trixie. Trixie. Trixie. Oh, yeah. I don't think
um I mean we got we got some good stuff happening, but it's in the background and will be something you guys know
about in a little while. Yeah. Like like months. So, but like Well, but be psyched about that. Yeah. It's pretty
cool. My water is loud. It's loud. My water is loud. Covering it is loud, but if I leave it uncovered, I'll throw it.
There's cool stuff happening that we'll be, you know, we'll let you know about. Don't worry. Soon enough. Um, it's it's
like the Tobias thing. Don't worry, you'll find out. Yeah, we'll always tell you. TLDDR, don't worry. Also, how cool
was that? I know that weeks ago said, I'm just gonna slide that in there. Still very
cool face of How cool was that? How cool was that? Check that out. Uh, no, that was pretty cool. But um yeah, I'm trying
to think of any other updates that could be coming your way. I can't think of anything right now. Anything to talk
about? Um I was going to apologize cuz I'm a little bit sick, so my voice might be a little bit annoying, but also I
find it kind of sultry. I was just going to say you're sultry. Thank you. So, I'm
sure everyone will agree. Thank you. Yeah, that is a plane landing on my house right now. I apologize. She said,
she really said I'm saying, are you okay up there? Hello. Are you all right? Yellow jackets. How's
everyone doing flying? How you guys doing? I'm just not period. Um, I'm still scared. Remain scared. I remain
scared. Drew scared her. I don't know if I am. Drew and I are going on a trip in
a couple weeks and I will not fly. We're driving. But how are you guys doing? Is
anybody else anybody have any tips, tricks, anything that's making you feel better about it right now? No. Um, one
thing I can tell you in case anybody else shares, which I know you do, shares my fear of flying and this uh, you know,
gestures broadly at the world has made it worse lately. Uh, follow some some pilots on TikTok. Okay. Uh, I'll start.
You know what I'm going to do for you guys? Because it's helped me and I want to share the love. Wow, look at you. I'm
gonna start sharing on my story some pilots that I follow uh in case anybody needs some like help getting through it
because Mikey's just playing music over there. He's like, "Shut the [ __ ] up, Elena. No one cares."
No, but I'll start sharing it because they have helped me. Um they they kind of bring you back to reality. Yeah. For
the situation because right now it's so scary. Um, but they'll bring you back to
a place of at least being able to be like, "Okay, someday I will step on a plane again." Yeah. Well, I think it
might be helpful. Right now is obviously scary, but it's also like being so Well, it's it's among everything. It's
so prominent right now. And it's just among all the chaos. So, I think it's it's definitely cuz it's a problem.
That's for sure. But I think it's it can pilots like actual people who do this all the time. If you're listening and
you're a pilot, like we're pouring one out for you. Superhero shout out superhero. Uh but they can bring you to
a place of like, okay, like this isn't where we're going to be okay. So I'll start sharing them on my stories if you
need you're so kind if you need some help because it it's helpful. That's one thing I love Tik Tok for is like that
kind of [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] I love Tik Tok. That's the one streaming thing I keep.
Yeah, I do love a Tik Tok thing. I love it for the recipes, for the pilots that tell me everything's going to be okay. I
love and organizations. What did you say? I said organizations like organ organizing.
Those are organizations. I got too much sleep last night. Sometimes that is detrimental. No, I actually believe
sometimes that I perform better on less sleep and then I'll get more sleep and I'm like, "Oh, maybe don't talk to me
today." Yeah, we went to we actually went to bed at like a decent time like upstairs to sleep because like we always
just try to get like as much time like when the when the kids go to sleep, we try to like make the most of the time
between then and when we have to go to bed, like get things done that we can't get done while the kids are awake. So,
it's like it's hard cuz you want to like use up all that time. Like we'll try to
watch the shows we can't watch when they're awake, you know, like all that stuff. Mhm. Um, but it's not really
great when I'm going up to bed at like midnight every night. So, and then waking up like super duper cuz then you
wake up early with kids. So, it's like whatever. But we went up a little early last night and I have um my little watch
that like tracks sleep and it told me I got like 5 and 1/2 hours of core sleep. Damn. Which I think is like pretty
[ __ ] rad. The competition girly in me just wants to start wearing a watch when
I sleep to be like, I got more sleep than you. You probably would. I would. Yeah, but I'd win. So, yeah, you would.
At least I win that. Would it feel like a win? Yeah. Would I feel like a I'll take that win. You got to take your W's
where you can get that. It's true. Right now, especially, we got to take all the
W's we can. I'll I'll scoop that W right up. Um, speaking of W's and the opposite
of them, which is an L. Um, wait, what? Yeah, like like a lo. The way you looked at me like what? I
was like, "How is that an L?" That's fair. Wow. That's That's I'm sick. Okay. She's on that
cold medicine. Hey, so speaking of scissor pin like uh losers, we're talking about David Carpenter. Oh, the
uh trailside killer here. Yikes. Uh he's a he's a big L. He's a M maniac. There you go. How about that? There you go. Uh
yeah, he's definitely an M. He's an L. He's nothing good. Uh and when we last talked to you about him, he had been
released on parole, which was crazy. Cuz one thing about this case is it's a prime example of the system failing on
an extraordinary level. Yikes. I mean, failing superbly into oblivion. I have one of those coming up, too. Yeah.
Several times they should have kept this guy behind bars, and they just kept letting him out. kept giving him slaps
on the wrist and like he would keep reoffending and that kind of thing like yeah and he kept escalating too. It's
like what are you doing? And um when we when we last talked about this we talked
about Eda Kaine and John Kaine the couple who were very established hikers. Eda had gone out by herself and she
hadn't returned home. Um, they had eventually found Eda dead, unfortunately. And when we last talked
about it, poor John had just kind of like withered away after she died. Um, it's very, very sad. Now, that had
happened in um like early fall. Now, a few weeks later on September 6th, David Carpenter was discharged from the
halfway house cuz remember he had been parrolled to a halfway house where he was being like conditioned to kind of go
out back into society. It was a specific halfway house that was for like felons who were being reintroduced into
society. He never should have been among them. He should have been kept in jail.
Yeah. No, he's not the kind of person that can be reformed. No. So, he was discharged from the halfway house and
returned to his parents' house, which I was like, "Ooh." His former probation officer, Rich Woods, said, "I'd gone
over to the house a number of times before he got home from work. I talked to the parents to see how he was doing,
and as far as anyone would say, him moving back into the house had really not caused any problems, and things
seemed to be going well." That's really all they could go on at that point. Yeah. Uh, a few months later in February
1980, David found work in a keychain distributor and seemed to be meeting all the requirements for his parole. Okay.
But this is kind of what he does. He meets all the points that he has to and then something happens and he just flips
a switch. Yeah. Like veers completely. That's the problem. Now, on the morning of March 8th, 1980, Barbara Schwarz went
out for a jog on the trails of Mount Tam. That afternoon, another hiker on the trail spotted um 23-year-old Barbara
arguing with a man who appeared to be in his 20s, according to this person. Then
the man pulled a knife from his belt and started stabbing Barbara out of nowhere.
By the time the police arrived to the spot, because they immediately called the police. Yeah. By the time they got
to the spot where Barbara had been last seen, her attacker was nowhere to be seen and Barbara had bled to death from
multiple stab wounds. Oh my god. where she was stabbed. Yeah. Barbara Schwarz's death was the second murder on the
mountain in a pretty short period of time. And like we had talked about before, there had been deaths on this
mountain, of course, but as far as they knew, there wasn't any murders before this, right? Um, but unlike Edain's
murder, this time there was evidence recovered at the scene. In addition to finding a butcher knife that
investigators were virtually certain was the kill um the murder weapon. Yeah. They also found a pair of blood stained
eyelasses. Oh [ __ ] that'll tell you a lot. Always wild when they like are in such a frenzy that they leave something
that important. Now, there's no way of knowing who these glasses belonged to, but the
prescription very heavy bif focal. Oh. That if matched to the right person could be a very compelling evidence if
it was in a trial. Like this is this is not a regular bif focal. a very thick, heavy bifocal. Now, in their first
examination of the body, it looked like Barbara had gone to great lengths to fight back. Um, Sergeant Keading said
she was repeatedly stabbed, but she put up a hell of a fight. Now, based on her defensive wounds, sheriff's detectives
actually strongly suspected that Barbara's killer had most likely, very likely, been wounded in this attack.
Good. Yeah. Now, that night, a little past 700 p.m., David Carpenter arrived at the emergency room. Oh, imagine that.
In Peninsula Hospital in San Mateo, about 35 miles from where Barbara Schwarz's body had been discovered.
Stupid ass. He had a deep cut on his right hand and his thumb. When the attending doctor asked how he got this
injury, David said, quote, "There was an attempted robbery at a 7-Eleven store in
Birmingham, Burling, excuse me. I was attacked and injured by the holdup man. Now, so he's claiming I tried to stop a
holdup. I am a hero. I'm a hero and I got hurt there. So, the hospital policy was that any injuries sustained during
an illegal act had to be reported to police. The doctor did that. Despite no report of a robbery ever having been
received in that area, the officers that interviewed David Carpenter just accepted his story and they allowed him
to go on his way after being stitched up. What? So they saw that there was no reports of a robbery there and they just
said, "Okay, he said it though. They could have stopped him right now." Yeah, of course.
Like this could have been When I tell you the failures at every single layer here, that's also just wild. Like you
would think that that would hold him up for a little while at the Yeah, you would think. No, they just let him go.
He got stitched up, let him go. And the doctor did his job. He called them to try to figure out what was going on,
[Music] right? So, it wasn't until the next day that San Mateo police received the All
Points Bulletin about Barbara's murder. And by then, the interviewing officers had completely forgotten about him.
Like, they just didn't even they didn't even put the pieces together. Come on. So, things were relatively quiet in the
months after Barbara Schwarz's murder. Uh, detectives continued investigating her murder and the murder of Eteka, but
without any new information or evidence, they really weren't going to be able to
get anywhere. Then in October, the sheriff's department got another call about someone having gone missing at
Mount Tam. This time it was a couple. Oh. 19-year-old Rick Stoers and his girlfriend, 18-year-old Cindy Morland.
Okay. So, the couple had just been they had just gotten engaged. Oh. And Rick had gotten his orders from the Coast
Guard that were going to require him to report for his latest position at Point Reyes, which was a small coastal village
about, you know, an hour outside of San Francisco. Okay. On the morning of October
8th, Rick had picked up Cindy and they were headed out to Point Reyes to kind of check out the area to see where they
were going to be staying. Yeah. So later that afternoon they were shopping in that area and um another couple saw them
at a bookstore in town. Then they were seen a little bit later than that by two hikers, Sharon Melnik and Larry Drapkin.
They saw them on Bear Valley Trail. A little later, Melnik and Drapkin were hiking when they heard a succession of
loud booms. Um later they said they sounded like noises in rapid succession from a backfiring motorcycle. Um but
they couldn't really tell where it was coming from. They were having trouble like pinpointing it cuz sometimes when
you're in an area like that sounds sound like they're coming from either one place when it's a totally opposite one
or they sound like they're coming from everywhere. Even certain sounds I feel like do that. Like even we'll be
watching TV sometimes and it's a sound on TV that sounds like it's coming from like the back of our house. Yes, that
happens to us all the time too. I'll I think it's the girls like coming down or like ask yelling my name or something
and we'll always be pausing and like listening or going upstairs. There's so many times where I'm like was that our
alarm? Yeah. I'm like what the [ __ ] was that? So that evening Rick and Cindy had
plans to meet Cindy's sister Alice for dinner and when they didn't show up, she got very worried and around 9:00 p.m.
she called her brother and explained the situation. But he was like, "I don't know. Don't overreact." He was like,
"Maybe wait until tomorrow. see if Cindy shows up for work, which I was like, okay. Um, I don't really understand
that. But Alice said Cindy was supposed to work at her job on Sunday morning. I was a little overprotective, I think,
and I didn't want to worry anyone, which like I get that. Yeah. But the next day,
Cindy didn't show up to work, and she wasn't heard from from anybody. So, Alice and the rest of the family started
taking everything a little more seriously, and they reported both of them missing. A few days later on
October 15th, a third body of a w of a murdered woman was discovered on Mount Tam. Damn. A research scientist and
former Peace Corps consultant, 26-year-old Ann Alderson. So, she was visiting her parents in San Raphael over
the holiday weekend when on October 13th, she just decided to go for a solo hike on Mount Tam. So, she was literally
visiting like wouldn't have been there otherwise. And again, a research scientist and Peacecore consultant.
That's crazy. Like, come on. Um, so she had she had just wanted to go out for a solo hike on Mount Tam. And days later,
a witness named John Henry told police he'd seen an sitting alone in the amphitheater around 5:00 p.m. and had
considered warning her about the recent attacks that had occurred on the mountain. He just wanted to be like, you
should just be a little careful here, especially like being alone, he said. But she was so deep in introspection.
and I didn't want to bother or scare her. Oh man. Yeah. So Anne was one of two people that Henry saw in the
mountain that day. He also saw a man in the parking lot. He later said he was just hanging around. He was in his late
40s, early 50s, but there was something different about him. He was simply standing there all but motionless and
wearing street clothing, slacks, and a Hawaiianike shirt. The man would later be identified as David Carpenter. It
reminds you of that thing where it's like, would you rather run into a bear in the woods or a man? A bear. The next
day, two park rangers were out on the mountain looking for some wild ridgeback hogs that had been spotted in the area
when they received an APB about a young woman and Alderson who had gone missing on the mountain. According to the
bulletin, Anne had told her parents she'd be back by 6 that night, but they waited until the following day to report
her missing. Search and rescue teams along with family and friends had combed the mountain that night looking for
Anne, but found no sign of her. It wasn't until the next day, October 15th, that Anne's body was discovered in an
area of overgrowth about a/4 mile from the amphitheater where she had last been seen by John Henry. Oh, that's awful.
Unlike the other two victims, none of Anne's clothing or jewelry had been taken except for one gold
earring. Yeah, that's so chilling. She had been sexually assaulted and the cause of death was a gunshot wound to
the right side of her head. And it was from a quote high-powered weapon like a rifle. Yeah. Although she was clothed
when her body was discovered, investigators believe that her attacker redressed her after. So she was
undressed and scarier. Yeah. That afternoon, the sheriff's department shut down Mount Tam to the public, and
detectives searched the area for evidence and found, among other things, a metal fragment from the bullet jacket
and Anne's underwear, which appeared to contain semen that the investigators believed
was likely left by her killer. Right. Although DNA testing was obviously not available at the time, this sample was
analyzed by lab technicians and determined to be quote a type consistent with about 6 to 8% of the general
population. Well, at least that's small. That's a small something. But it's like
uh now on December 2nd, 1980, about 6 weeks after Anne's murder, teams of park rangers were searching the mountain
looking for 25-year-old Shauna May and 22-year-old Diane O' Connell who had been reported missing a few days
earlier. My god. When so many missing people when they made So they're looking for Shauna May and Diane O'Connell and
they made a horrific discovery. So Okonnell and May had gone out for a walk along the national seashore at Point
Reyes on November 28th. And when the they failed to return home that afternoon, they were tourists. So people
were like, "Where the [ __ ] would they have gone, right? They were immediately reported missing." It was in a heavily
wooded and sparsely traveled area on Mount Tam where they were found. Uh they were both unfortunately murdered. They
were nude and had been shot in the head, both of them. Gosh. Based on the initial
evaluation, it looked like Diane O'Connell had been strangled by quote, "Something like a narrow piece of cord
of wire, and a pair of women's underwear had been shoved in her mouth." Oh my. There was no evidence to indicate that
O'Connell had been raped. Shauna May, on the other hand, had been sexually assaulted before being shot, and there
were ligature marks around one one of her wrists which indicated she had been bound at some point.
Now, the discovery of two more murder victims on Mount Tam was bad enough, but less than an hour later, rangers
discovered the decomposed remains of Cindy Morland and Rick Stoers. Oh. About 200 yards from where they found Okonnell
and May. Jesus. Both bodies were found lying face down in what appeared to be a shallow, very crudely dug grave. bullet
wounds were um in both of the back of their heads. Um they had been in the woods for about seven weeks at this
point. So Wow. They had undergone a lot of decomposition and Cindy's remains had
to be identified through dental records. That's always so sad. Yeah. When they left Morland's house on the day they
went missing, neither Cindy nor Rick had said anything about going hiking. That's
the problem. So when they reported missing, they just never thought to look in the area of Mount Tam cuz no one knew
they were hiking, right? It was like a it was just like they just spontaneous thing. Now the body count now is at
seven. Jesus. And the sheriff's office finally started, you know, we're like, you know what? I think there is one
killer that's responsible for all these victims. This doesn't feel like just a coincidence, right? Um, Sheriff Al
Alenstein told reporters the two most recent victims may have been slain by the killer to draw attention to the
earlier killings. Um, he said, "We're looking, we believe, at an individual who has strong feelings about women."
And he also said, "Sometimes the Slayer can control his feelings and other times
he cannot." Would you do that? When you think of it, like he killed Diane O'Connell and Shauna
May just to draw attention because he left them right he did it and left them right near where Rick and Cindy were.
For him to do that just so that they to be like, "Oh, you haven't found them yet." Right. So I'll just take two other
people's lives. Like that is so [ __ ] chilling. That line of thinking is just that's so chilling. Wild. And it's very
him. Yeah. Uh, so the news that there was yet another serial killer because remember we're in that time period and
in that in that place that location where serial killers were running a [ __ ] muck around here. They were
confusing the cases, confusing the victims. Like they were overlapping. They were working in the same kind of
areas. Like it was a wild time. It was I can't imagine being in this time this place in the United States at this time.
Especially as a woman. I really can't imagine it. No. Horrifying. So this just the news that there was yet another one
of these [ __ ] operating in the San Francisco area was met with a lot of justifiable fear and anxiety from
residents. Howenstein said in a warning to the residents in the area, "Without question, this individual is capable of
striking again," which must have been horrifying to hear. That's very scary. He said, "He commits his acts in an
effort to achieve psychological relief, but the murders will not satisfy him, and the problem will get worse." And in
the same statement, he released a sketch of the man they believe was responsible.
And he was described as quote, "A cleancut man in his late 20s or early 30s dressed in hiking clothes with a
knapsack on his back." Okay. And according to witness statements, he's beginning to fall apart psychologically.
And so Howenstein said, "Hikers especially, remain vigilant and do not go on solo hikes." Yeah. Like no more
solo hiking, everybody. But it's what's even worse is you're not safe even with two. Well, yeah, because look, Cindy and
Rick were together. Cindy and Rick and Diane and Shauna. Yeah. And like you do inherently, I think as a woman sometimes
feel a little bit more defended when you're with like a man. But that didn't even matter either. Yeah. Like that's
very genuinely scary. It's horrifying. Now, investigators checked the local sex offender registry for anyone who might
match these descriptions, but because Carpenter was still technically a federal prisoner on probation, he was
not yet required to sign up for the registry, and so he hadn't. If you're out, you should have to sign up for
that. Agreed. Like, what? Another fail. Yep. Also, at the time, this is even worse. At the time, California's sex
offender registry program was woefully underfunded. Really? And overworked. And it was run by three people. That
department. What? Yeah. It lacked even the basic resources to operate as a department, much less operate as like a
functional arm of law enforcement. Like three people are having to deal with all
this. Insane. So the fact that he fell through the cracks in that scenario, not surprising at all. awful. I would have
been surprised if they actually found him on the registry. Truly. Now, as for David Carpenter, the sheriff was more or
less kind of accurate with what he said. He was starting to fall apart psychologically, or you know, he was
becoming more reckless at the very least. [Music] Now, on March 29th, 1981, 20-year-old Ellen Hansen and her
boyfriend Steven Herold were camping near Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz, not far from Point Reyes. Okay. This was
a popular area at the time, and it had about 90 other campers on site at the time. If Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz
sounds a little familiar, kind of did. This is the same camping area that Herbert Mullen took um solitary hikes
in. Oh. And brutally ended up murdering 18-year-old David Oler, 18-year-old Robert Spectre, 19-year-old Brian Scott
Card, and 15year-old Mark Draelbus in their tent. Oh, wow. This is the same place. And around the same time. Yep.
And this is where um Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend Steven Herold were camping. Oh man. So that morning, Hansen
and Herold woke up early and went for a walk along the beach. Um, for much of the walk, they were alone, but
eventually Steve spotted another person on the beach. This was a man wearing what looked to be a backpack and very
heav he heavy bif focal glasses. We got them replaced. And he was walking towards them. No thanks. So as they got
closer, Steve and Ellen could hear what Steve later described as quote shuffling
steps and then heavy breathing and cursing. But they thought like whatever and they
just kind of like because they were walking towards each other but like going past each other. So you're just
going to say like hey. So he said they nodded a hello that impeded too and then they just kept walking. Now later that
afternoon and nothing came of that. Yeah. So they were just like whatever. Later that afternoon, Steven Ellen ran
into that same man from the beach again. This time while they were hiking Ridge Trail on Mount Tam when he saw them, he
said, "Oh, I see we run into each other again." So, they just kind of were like,
"Huh? Yeah, like weird." And then as they're being like, "Oh, yeah, that's like funny." As they're saying that, he
reached into the waistband of his pants and produced a revolver. Can you imagine? You just see this man again and
he's like, "Oh, funny. We run into each other again." And you're like, "Yeah." And he's just puts a gun in your face.
Like what the like the fear? The fear and just like the split second change there cuz he just pointed it right at
them. My god. Like that would just destroyed me. Like what the [ __ ] the universe? Like why did I cross this
man's path again? Now, at the time, Steve was fixated on his the man's hands, which he later described as
extraordinarily white and clean, which is strange. He also noticed the strange way that the man was holding the gun. He
said it was like very specific. He said he had pulled back the hammer, but had his thumb between the hammer and the
firing pin cuz he's injured. Yeah. So, if the hammer slipped, it would hit his thumb rather than discharging a bullet,
too. Right. Like, which is strange. Um the man said, "If you don't want to get hurt, do what I say. Put your hands on
your head and you won't get hurt." So he was like, "This is weird." So he's thinking we're just being robbed. Also,
him putting his finger his thumb between that. Probably just armed him. Probably
made him think like, "Okay, even if he pulls the trigger, we're not being fired at." So to me, that would probably make
me be like, "Okay, this guy's bluffing, right?" Like this is [ __ ] up. Let's just do what he says. And I think that's
why Steve was like, "Okay, I think he's just robbing us and he's trying to threaten us with a with a gun thing." So
Steve pushed Ellen out of the way and thrust his wallet at this man, but the man was like, "No." And this is one of
the most chilling things I have ever heard. Oh no. He said to him, "I don't want any money. I want something else."
You know what I mean? All I want to do is rape her. Oh my god. said this to her boyfriend. Steve was probably like,
"What the actual fuck?" And what do you And imagine Ellen being like like what the [ __ ] Like I What do you do in that
scenario? I have no idea. I have no idea. And it didn't It's so scary. It's like so scary. And apparently it didn't
occur to Steve in the moment, but he later said that the man was slowly pushing them back off the trail and into
the woods as this was happening. and Steve and Ellen were moving backwards and he was just kind of like advancing
them space and and like that he's like getting them out of the way. Mhm. Now eventually Steve and Ellen made a move
to run and things just erupted into chaos. Uh Steve said I heard two shots and then I felt like somebody hit my
neck with a sledgehammer. I remember falling to the ground with a buzzing sensation in my arm and everything was
slowing down. The bullet had ripped through Steve's neck and severed an artery in his arm and then had settled
in his sternum. Oh my god. So, he went unconscious. I'm sure. When he regained consciousness a few moments later, the
first thing he saw was Ellen laying beside him and her head was resting in a pool of blood. The man who who had shot
them both looked like he was walking away. And Steve knew if he didn't stop him, they might never find him and he
might hurt someone else. So despite being incredibly injured, Steve forced himself to his feet. Oh my god. He's
been shot in the neck and an artery has been severed. Not only the fact that he's gravely injured, but the fact that
he knows that this man still has a gun and could shoot him again. He's still going up against because he doesn't want
somebody else to get hurt. Wow. He forces himself to his feet and slowly starts walking after him, walking up the
trail in the direction of the observation deck. And he hadn't made it very far before he found a father and
son hiking the trail. And he's like hysterical and he's slipping into like shock at this point. Yeah. And Steve did
his best to explain to them what happened, but he wasn't making a lot of sense. And Lee Fritz, who was one of the
guys, said he told us that he and his girlfriend had been shot and he thought she was dead. Oh. which like I can't
even imagine having to say that. No. So, with the help of some other hikers, Fritz managed to get Steve to
the observation deck where they called the police and later several witnesses on the trail that day recalled hearing
the gunshots and passing a man in a gold jacket as they rushed to see what the commotion was about. It's also just so
crazy to think that like so many people that day were just out for hikes. Like that guy that Steve ran into is just on
a hike with his son. Yeah. And like think of like the head space that they're in. Like they were like, "Oh,
nature. Beautiful." Yeah. And this guy woke up from being shot next to his girlfriend, seeing his girlfriend next
to him. So, two of the hikers from the observation deck ventured out into the woods and found Ellen's body. She was
dead. Um, she had been killed by a gunshot wound to her head. The two men sat with her body until the rescue team
arrived, which I'm glad they did that. In the meantime, Steve was loaded into Lee Fritz's camper van and they started
their way down to the hospital. So, like all these campers are like helping each
other out. When they reached the parking lot, Fritz spotted a man driving a Volkswagen Beetle that appeared to be
stuck in the mud. Good. Um Fritz said, "Something about the rearview mirror caught my eye. It was extra large for
the car." Like, so it was just a very specific thing. As they passed, Lee and the other driver made direct eye contact
with one another. And it occurred to him that it was the same man that he passed
on the trail just before he found Steve. God, can you imagine? And he said, he said he yelled, "There's there goes the
person I think committed the crime." But he said at the moment I had to get Steve
to a hospital. I was worried he was going to die. Like I couldn't stop and try to apprehend this man. Like you have
to weigh out what is more important. He's like, "So I just had to get Steve to where he needed to go." Now, despite
the serious physical and psychological trauma that he'd endured, Steve was able to provide a very detailed description
of the killer. That's incredible. Um, and he used that description to refine the existing composite of the sketch of
the suspect. Nice. The problem though was that they still had no one to match the drawing to. Um, and unfortunately,
it was going to take one more murder before this man was finally identified as David Carpenter. Jesus Christ. Now,
with the exception of the attack on Lois Deandradi in 1960, all of David Carpenters's victims were completely
unknown to him and were just kind of like victims of opportunity. Unfortunately, for that reason, it's
really strange that in choosing his last victim here, he chose someone that he knew like pretty well and could easily
be traced back to him with very minimal effort. Cuz again, psychologically, he's
un unwinding. He's unwinding. Now, on May 2nd, 1981, just one month after the murder of Alan Hansen and the attempted
murder of Steve Herdle, 20-year-old Heather Skaggs was attending the same trade school where David Carpenter was
working as a printer. And she mentioned that she was looking to buy a used car since hers had finally broken down for
good. Well, as it happened, Carpenter told her he had a friend in Santa Cruz who had a car for sale at a pretty good
price, and he was happy to drive her over there after they both finished their shifts.
Okay, if she could get the car, Carpenter pointed out he could help her get a job at the school. Heather agreed,
you know, there. But there were two things she did find unusual about this whole thing. Carpenter had told her to
bring cash and not tell anyone when she was going. Okay, that's strange. Yeah. So, Heather's mother, Mary Jones Scaggs,
said that Heather called her that afternoon and seemed upset and was like, "I feel like something's weird about
this." She actually broke into tears at one point. I mean, she said it didn't it
doesn't feel right. Yeah. So, her mother begged her like, "Trust your instincts.
Don't go with this guy." But Heather was like, "I can't pass up the opportunity for a job." Which is so sad. I know. And
so, she told her mom, "Don't worry. Don't worry about it, Mom. You just wish that somebody else could have given her
a ride." I know. And that was the last time Mary Jones Scaggs talked to her daughter. Oh my god. Now, later that
night, when no one had heard from Heather, some of her friends reached out to David Carpenter for information,
actually, because they knew the two had plans that afternoon because some people
were there when they made these plans. Yeah. But David claimed that they hadn't met up as planned because, quote, he
overslept and had car trouble. Okay. So, because multiple people knew she had plans to go look at a car with David
Carpenter, when Heather Heather was reported missing to police, his name came up repeatedly. Yeah. But when
investigators interviewed him, he just said, "I overslept and my card wouldn't work." Like, "I didn't see her that
day." You know, it's just a coincidence that I'm a violent criminal. And it's it's easy alibi. Just I overslept. I
didn't see her. Now, at the same time that investigators were looking into his background in the context of the Heather
Scaggs case, the composite sketch that had been updated with the help of Steve was finally starting to get some
traction. Nice. And the first tip came in from a 69year-old woman in Benlman, California named Robera Patterson. She
reported recognizing the man in the sketch as a man she'd been on a cruise with 26 years old earlier. Patterson
wouldn't have remembered someone from that long ago, she said normally, but she recalled being very disturbed by
Carpenter, and it was David Carpenter, because he was making her teenage daughter very uncomfortable because he
wouldn't stop touching her shoulders. Ew. Um Patterson told a reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle, "I just
didn't like the guy." It turned out this was not the first time that Patterson had reported this particular man to the
police. Years earlier, she called police after seeing a sketch of the Zodiac on TV. Oh [ __ ] Yeah, we're about to cover
that. [Music] Now, by the time they called him in for an interview about the disappearance of
Heather Scaggs, investigators already suspected him of being involved in the murders at Mount Tam, but in person, he
was much less believable as a threat to anyone. Um, Detective Walt Robinson said, "When he sat down and started
talking to Carpenter, the first time he opened his mouth, I thought, my god, this guy can't possibly be involved in
the Santa Cruz homicide." In addition to just appearing pretty meek, according to
them, like he just didn't seem like a, you know, judging a book by its cover, I suppose. They were also saying he was
struggling to get a single sentence out without stuttering. Uh when they asked about Heather, his response caught their
detectives off guard because he said, "I hope she hasn't been killed. I hope she
hasn't been raped." But they said he stuttered very hard on the words killed and raped. Oh. So that's why it like
really hit them. They were like, first of all, why would you say that? That's just bizarre. And second of all, like
why are those words hitting so hard? Yikes. The more he talked, the more investigators started seeing the facade
of a mild, awkward man to someone who was clearly very more controlling, manipulative, and cunning. To Robinson
and his partner, Carpenter's alibi seemed way too perfect. His descriptions were too well rehearsed. Everything was
too much. So, sensing he would need to establish some kind of rapport with the suspect, Robin. Robinson told Carpenter
that like David, he had also been forced to take dance classes as a kid and would
often get made fun of by his peers. At that, David calmly rose from his chair and for nearly 10 minutes, he went
through all the dance positions he could remember, moving fluidly around this little interrogation room as the
detectives just watched him without any emotion. That he needs to be hospitalized. You
would see that in a movie and be like that's too much. Be like that's a lot. Like that was crazy. No, that is it's
also like he did weirdly sad. Yeah, but like I don't feel bad for him but Yeah. Like the entire performance from you
know the awkward, you know, weird embarrassment and the the dance routine. It all felt very planned though to them
cuz at first when you hear that you're like oh that's like he's just really like he's really going out there you
know he's trying to make it seem like he's but to them they felt like this is part of it. They said he was playing a
game with them. Yeah. Uh as he danced David said I know you guys think I'm the number one suspect as he's dancing. Oh.
And they reminded him that they were from missing persons not homicide. Uhhuh. And but all David said was, "Hey,
I'm the number one suspect. I should if I should be if I'm not." What the [ __ ] And the detectives
concluded their interview and took three Polaroid photos of Carpenter, then allowed him to leave. That's so bizarre.
They said it was all It's all felt very rehearsed, like he planned all of it. It's he literally did a dance rehearsal.
Yeah. In the days that after that, FBI agents working with the Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Office ran a 247 tail
on David Carpenter. Oh, I always love that. And during that time, they witnessed him attempting to sell his .38
pistol, among other things. And in the meantime, Santa Cruz homicide detectives continued to investigate the Hansen
murder, focusing on David Carpenter. It was during an interview with his former girlfriend, Candy Townsen, that the
first break came. During their conversation, Townsen mentioned a gold jacket of David's that had gone missing
in early April. Oh [ __ ] Which he told her had been stolen out of his car. I bet. Detective Stony Brook said, and his
name is Stony Brook. That's iconic. I just need to take Can we all just take hold space for that? He had to be That's
a great name. It is. Um he said, "Up to this point, we lacked the nexus, the connection. We had him fitting the
description, but we could not put him at the scene with the gun in his hand. That
jacket was it. The nexus. I love it. Only Stony Only Detective Stony Brook could say it like that. It's true. And
only Detective Stony Brook would say Nexus. Exactly. That's the only that only Stony. Now, along with the pistol
and the witness descriptions, the jacket put David Carpenter at the scene of the
Hansen murder the previous month. That afternoon, Brooke called the FBI surveillance team and reported what
they'd learned on the afternoon of May 15th. David Carpenter was arrested for the murder of Ellen Hansen. Following
his arrest and arraignment for the murder, seven witnesses, including Steve Herold, identified Carpenter as the man
who they'd seen fleeing Mount Tam on the day Ellen Hansen was murdered. About a week later, on May 24th, hikers walking
um along the railway at Big Basin State Park. unfortunately discovered the nude decomposing body of Heather Skaggs. Oh,
she had been sexually assaulted and shot in the face with a 38 caliber handgun. My god. The same gun used in the
shooting of Ellen Hansen and Steve Herold. During the trial, one of Carpenters's friends, Molly Pernell,
testified that she had purchased the gun at David's request. And two other witnesses testified to having been shown
the gun by David Carpenter at various points in the previous year. Yikes. During his interviews, Carpenter claimed
not to own a gun, but one of the former Halfway House residents David lived with
had turned on him and confessed to having been given the gun by Carpenter and asked to destroy it. Oh my god.
Yeah. You just like the fact that he thought that was never going to come back. You really think they're going to
have your back here? No. Like come on. That man led police to where he had thrown it and the weapon was recovered.
Whoa. Yep. In late July 1981, David Carpenter was charged with five counts of murder, rape, and attempted rape in
Santa Cruz County. Also, in his 1981 mugsh shot, he's wearing a [ __ ] monogrammed sweater. Yeah, he's he's
terrifyingly normal. He's wearing a straightup monogrammed sweater. I don't know what the monogram is because it's
not for his name. Yeah. But which is even scarier somehow. I don't know why. It's just it's just I'm like, whose is
that? I hate it. Yeah. Now, at a trial was scheduled, but in the months that followed, additional charges were added
for the murders in Marane County, and that complicated the case. Things were further complicated by multiple requests
for a change of venue. After Carpenters's lawyers argued that there had been too much press coverage in
Santa Cruz, and the jury was going to be biased. Yeah. Yeah. By the time the case
went to trial in April 1984, it took nearly 3 months to impanel a jury in Los Angeles where the case had been moved.
Now, in July 1984, after a three-month trial, David Carpenter was found guilty of all charges in the Santa Cruz cases.
And in November of that year, he was sentenced to death. Goodbye. Two years later, in September 1986, Carpenter was
tried for the murders committed in Maring County, where he was also found guilty of all charges. And in 1988, was
also sentenced to death for those as well. Damn, two times. You're going to die twice. Oof. Given the complexity of
the cases and the fact that death penalty cases are automatically appealed, y David Carpenter appealed
those convictions and sentences to the state supreme court several times. Although two of his convictions for the
Hansen and Skaggs murders were at one point overturned on a technicality. Oh, [ __ ] technicality. The
convictions and sentences for those murders were reinstated upon review. Uh David Carpenter has always denied
killing or sexually assaulting any of the individuals he was convicted of killing. Yeah. Yeah. Despite a wild
amount of forensic evidence linking him to the murders. Like there is no question whatsoever. Yeah. In the years
since he was incarcerated, he's been linked through DNA to the 1979 murder of Mary Bennett, who was killed while
jogging at Land's End. and he remains the prime suspect in the murders of Etica and Barbara Schwarz who they were
never able to pin him for. As of today, he remains incarcerated at San Quentin prison and he is 94 years old and he is
the oldest resident on California's death row. That's [ __ ] That is some [ __ ] that that man is allowed to
live be allowed to live that long. And I I hope that death row is just [ __ ] awful, though. Oh, I hope he's having
the worst time. I hope he's having the [ __ ] horse. I hope he can't dance. I hope they don't let him dance. Oh, yeah.
I hope they I hope they just Oh, I hope he lives with a constant hangail. Yeah. And I hope he always has a cut inside of
his nose. And I hope that heals it is always dripping. Always dripping. And that mice are in his cell. And I hope
his eye twitches and then it stops so he thinks it's gone, but then it just goes
for like a week straight. Yeah. And I hope he has a dull headache. And then um I hope he has an abscess in his tooth.
Several teeth actually. That's crazy. And a sore throat. Oh, definitely. I can never pinpoint why. And no cough drops
in prison. Nope. Except for Mucinx. And he's one of those people who Mucinx makes puke. Mucinex makes me nauseous.
Me, too. And I hope it makes him nauseous. And they only have that. You heard it here first. Yeah. Wow. That's a
really sad story. the fact that so many of those deaths never would have happened if the justice system had
actually prevailed. Can we tell we got to tell a story soon where the justice system like does good. Yeah, we
definitely need to find one of those because this was not one of those situations. David Carpenter's an
[ __ ] Those poor people just living their lives and they were just victims of opportunity. It's awful. It is. But a
lot of like civilians in this case, a lot of the detectives did a great job on this case and a lot of uh civilians
really pulled it together in this case. I feel like like um camping culture and like hiking culture, those people really
stick together. Yeah. They take care of each other, which like good for you guys. Whenever people go hiking on the
um like do like the crazy Pacific Coast Highway, what Pacific Coast Highway did you say? No. Why? Well, that's a thing.
Uh the Pacific Coast Trail, right? Is that it? In my head, I was thinking like the Appalachin Trail. Now I'm just
thinking Panama Pacific Crest Trail. That's not in my head, but I don't know what it's called. So, at least you had a
stab at it. The Reese Witherspoon uh movie where she throws her hiking boots. It's like a whole
thing. And they talk about it in uh Gilmore Girls, the new one. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Pacific
Crest Trail. I was right. Okay. I was like, I know I'm not totally off on here. Anyway, she was going to do wild.
So, that's what it is. It's wild. Yeah, the Pacific the Appalachin Trail I think
is part of that whole thing. Okay, so you were also correct. See, look at us both being great. Basically, my point
was just that when people do that big long trail and they and they go wild or they do wild, people take care of them.
Everybody takes care of each other during the wild going. They do. I think people who it's a community. people who
hike. I think that's just like in your bones and in your blood and like which makes you pretty [ __ ] great. I wish I
could hike. I get keep looking out for each other and please be careful. And with that being said, we hope you keep
listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you don't do and go wild.
Wild. Wild. Wild. [Music] [Music] [Music]

Throughout the 1960s and 70s, from Los Angeles to San Francisco, Californians were terrorized by multiple killers including notorious serial killers like the Zodiac Killer, the Hillside Stranglers, Herbert Mullin, and Ed Kemper. While the decade may have ended with these killers disappearing or apprehended, the threat of violence and murder simply moved north.

Though less known than his contemporaries, David Carpenter was no less prolific and frightening a killer than those men mentioned above. Nicknamed “The Trailside Killer” by the press, Carpenter terrorized Point Reyes and Santa Cruz County for a decade, assaulting, kidnapping, and killing at least eight people, but he was suspected of more. Like those other killers, Carpenter had a long history of violent and antisocial behavior going back to his childhood, including multiple arrests and incarcerations. How was it that a man with such an alarming history of violence could go uncaught for a decade?

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References Associated Press. 1980. "Trail Killer will strike again." Santa Cruz Sentinel, December 1: 1.

Burkhardt, Bill. 1979. "Woman found murdered on Mt. Tam." San Francisco Examiner, August 21: 1.

Graysmith, Robert. 1990. The Sleeping Lady: The Trailside Murders Above the Golden Gate. New York, NY: Onyx.

Keraghosian, Greg. 2020. "'Do not hike alone': For 21 months, the Trailside Killer terrorized Bay Area's outdoors." San Francisco Chronicle, October 25.

Leader, Lewis. 1980. "Identification ends dad's long quest." San Francisco Examiner, December 2: 2.

San Francisco Examiner. 1960. "MP's shots foil attack on woman." San Francisco Examiner, July 13: 1.

—. 1961. "Presidio attacker gets 14 yrs." San Francisco Examiner, March 10: 11.

—. 1960. "Sex case insanity plea." San Francisco Examiner, October 8: 5.

Santa Cruz Sentinel. 1970. "Boulder Creek girl attacked." Santa Cruz Sentinel, January 29: 22.

—. 1970. "Grand jury indicts con." Santa Cruz Sentinel, July 17: 7.

—. 1970. "SLV kidnap suspect flees Calaveras jail." Santa Cruz Sentinel, April 27: 1.

The People v. Carpenter. 1997. S004654 (Superior Court of Los Angeles County, April 28).

The People vs. David Carpenter. 1999. S006547 (Superior Court of San Diego County, November 29).

Todd, John. 1980. "Tam closed in hunt for clues." San Francisco Examiner, October 16: 1.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

David Carpenter's release led to multiple murders, highlighting systemic failures in the justice system.

Key points

Introducing Morbid. Ash and Elena introduce their podcast, sharing their humor and connection to Trixie and Katya.
David Carpenter's Release. David Carpenter, a dangerous criminal, is released on parole, highlighting systemic failures.
Barbara Schwarz's Murder. Barbara Schwarz is brutally murdered while jogging, marking a chilling escalation in violence.
Anne Alderson's Tragic Fate. Anne Alderson goes missing during a hike and is later found murdered, raising alarms.
Chilling Discovery of Victims. The discovery of two more murder victims raises the body count to seven, indicating a serial killer's presence.
A Terrifying Encounter. Ellen Hansen and Steven Herold encounter a man on the beach who later attacks them with a gun.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I find it kind of sultry.

Elena comments on her sick voice.

2:04WatchApr 17, 2025

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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