Cleveland MetroParks Murders ////// 660 | Forensic Files

thank you [Music] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me today I have a very special guest all the way from the home of the
NFL champions Kansas City but before we get to that how about a little of this today we are very happy to be featuring
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and as the smart people say that is enough of the business so gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some
true crime [Music] laugh s [Music] I just I miss her so much Kim Brown back at the place where her daughter was
killed three months ago today I wish we'd have answers I just can't understand I just can't understand how
this could have happened Tuesday June 4th around 5 15 in the evening 33 year old Kate Brown and 40 year old friend
Carnell Sledge sitting on this park bench when they were shot in the heads the killer vanished Without a Trace and
has not been identified we have no idea who did it we have just no idea and that's upsetting it's horribly upsetting
because Kate and Carnell aren't here now as a result of this abrupt violent act I
mean and why Kim says she believes Metro Parks police and the FBI are doing all they can as they actively investigate it
does pose new difficulties so with each passing day FBI special agent Vicki Anderson says detectives want to hear
from anyone who was in the park that day or who has heard anything that may help
she says it's still unclear if the killer knew the victims the people that were in their circles you know who were
they talking to um who did they last speak with their family their friends people online the
we've run all those things we continue to work those angles but the stranger possibility still exists the Metro Park
says police have upped Patrols in the area Kate's family putting up signs pleading for tips as they await answers
this couldn't have happened totally in isolation somebody knows something and I'm hoping somebody will step forward
thank you [Music] a very special night here in the garage I'm very excited I'm joined here with my
longtime friend and host my favorite host of The Generation Y podcast Aaron how are you doing this evening man I'm
doing great because I'm hanging out with you and getting ready to discuss an important case there are very few places
better to be than in the garage and I welcome you and I'm glad that you are here with me this evening yes this is an
important case this is a scary case and and when I review this case I'm reminded that there simply are
cases that I think are more frightening than others and here what we are talking about
tonight is a double homicide that takes place in broad daylight in a public place
so it certainly makes one take pause and really acknowledge that unfortunately this terrifying situation could happen
to any of us at any time and unfortunately no one is immune to being a victim and we can't keep our
guard up everywhere all of the time now the story starts off like this it's a beautiful Tuesday afternoon at the
Rocky River Reservation this is a Metro Park in the Greater Cleveland Ohio area we have two good wholesome people who
were gunned down that evening now this has become one of the area's most infamous unsolved homicide cases and an
investigation that truly has no easily identifiable motive or suspect it happened just after 5 PM on June 4th
2019. in a parking lot area north of the Lorraine Road Bridge in the park according to authorities
our victims Cornell Sledge and Kate Brown arrived at the parking lot around 504 pm
they arrived separately they got out of their cars and they went and sat down together on a
nearby bench the two had been friends for more than a decade and from my understanding meeting
there at this location at the park anyway was not unusual now police say sometime between 508 and
5 15 p.m an unknown person or persons shot them Kate Brown's body was found in the water so this park bench
is right near the Rocky River it's it's directly in front of the Rocky River and her body is found in the water
she has been shot once in the head Carnell Sledge was found on the ground nearby he had been shot multiple times
in the head according to authorities just minutes later at 5 18 PM two kayakers are in the river they're
going Upstream Downstream what have you and they find these two bodies and they call 9-1-1 immediately now Aaron this is
crazy because think about that really short brief time frame that we're discussing
here the authorities have managed to narrow this down to parking in the lot at approximately 504 PM I do
want to State some things here first off right off the rip there's not a lot of information not a lot of details that
have come out about this case from the mouths of law enforcement since this case broke since this
unfortunate incident back in June of 2019 however online there are multiple reports from different Media news
outlets and some of these times do vary to a very small degree so I've seen it reported that they
parked there as early as 502. uh this report that I chose to use is saying 504 and then we have the kayakers
discovering the bodies at 5 18. I've also seen that it reported that the 911. so we all can agree though that we
are still talking about a very small window of time from the time that everything was fine everything was
normal everything was great just another beautiful sunny day in the Greater Cleveland area
and then unfortunately these two are gunned down in a Metro Park of all places yeah the timing of that it really
suggests this is just from my own analysis here of course that they were followed
that it has that feel do you know what I mean and the other thing the other thing that really strikes me
here is people often say well I need to meet with someone I'm going to meet with
them in public because it's safer this is a well-trafficed area yes and yet it didn't help the situation at all
whoever did the shooting was not afraid to do this uh with many people going by a well-trafficed area and that is so if
you look this up on a map we have Lorraine Road which goes over there's a Lorraine bridge that goes over
Rocky River they would have parked their vehicles in a parking lot that is very near and
underneath sort of that Lorraine Road bridge and then walked over to this bench sat down
and the way that the crime goes down the murders go down as explained by law enforcement and the news outlets
is that it is believed that they were both seated at this park bench when the first shot was fired
now what's crazy to me you say well trafficked area this is not just well trafficked area we're talking about cars
going over the bridge this there's multiple Lanes in both directions on this bridge
cars going over the bridge we have people that are going to the park going to and from the park
it's June in Ohio that day I believe it was mid 70s around the time that they were killed
it was a Tuesday which would give you a little bit less traffic that as far as the parks concerned but there's also the
Metro Police they're not housed too terribly far away from this location the thing that shocks me here and
they've done about four press conferences that I could View and listen to throughout the years on this case
they've opened up every one of those press conferences to questions from the media
and the Metro Parks police they're Fielding those questions and they don't offer much up in the way of a
details about the case or B information that they know and I get it it's a catch-22 situation
you're holding the press conference to ask the public for their help and for information from the public so
you can solve this case so you can get Justice for Kate and car now and their families
but then on the flip of that you got to hold this some information close to your vest
and what little information you probably have it's it's one of those situations where
they have some information that's confirming for them approximately what time they Park their cars they have
information something that's telling them that they were shot at approximately this time
now I get it you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out of course they had to be
shot before 522 or before 5 18 before the 9-1-1 call was placed by the kayakers but
I want to know where some of this information comes because you talk about heavily trafficked area both cars people
on foot we even got kayakers we got people walking their dogs in this area people on bikes
somebody at that time of day given that amount of traffic we have to have some ear Witnesses is what I'm thinking well
why don't we have those people coming forward because as far as we know there haven't been have there the information
that I was able to review states that they have received over a hundred tips on this case
and that was a statement given by the Metroparks police and the FBI I believe in 20 20 or 2021
so I would make the assumption that they've received some other tips since then I don't you know it's difficult to say
without knowing what that information is how many of that 100 or so tips were helpful
but that's what they're stating to us now I say that you got to have some ear Witnesses because
just the kayakers alone because we're being told that the police believe and have
likely have reason to believe if they're this specific about the times they're stating that sometime between 508 and 5
15 PM an unknown person shot both of them and then by 5 18 or 522 the 9-1-1 call is placed
so is it something just as simple I would think that at the very least those two kayakers would be potential ear
Witnesses before they stumble upon the this horrific scene and it's possible there are ear Witnesses
we just haven't been told about who they were and what they heard sometimes that information gets out in
this case like you're saying the Cleveland Metroparks police they've been very quiet
and they're not releasing much one thing we have been told here is that robbery does not seem to be a motive
and we're basing this off of the idea that Carnell's wallet was still on his person
Kate's purse was found where they were sitting and Carnell's laptop was still in his
car so items of value were not taken from the victims or from their vehicle yeah that tells us
something right away and when I was reading about this for the first time when I first learned of it from you
it really struck me as the kind of case where it felt like a targeted attack that's what's very odd about this case
because we have some statements from law enforcement they were very quick to say
we have no reason to believe the attacks were random that's one thing they were saying right
from Jump Street they were stating they believed it was an isolated incident and that the general public or people
going to the park were not in any danger or at a safety risk now again you want to know what they're
basing that off of or if they're basing it off of anything at all other than just sheer statistics
I mean more could it be something else Nick you've seen the movie Jaws I guess I have
and you know that was part of the film where someone gets attacked and killed and they're reassuring all the tourists
no it's fine you know don't worry about it it won't happen again exactly and that's what I wondered were they
basing that off of well the statistics will tell us that most homicides the overwhelming majority of
them are isolated incidents person a has a beef with person B and attacks or kills them
that's usually how these things play out but that's reasonable isn't it given the
timing of this I mean this one of the questions early on was was Kate headed towards the river just
because she was wandering away for a moment to look out that didn't seem likely because they
hadn't been there long enough right that's something that might happen if they had been there for 25 30 minutes
but not if only for what three four minutes no she was probably trying to get away I
agree with you and and you're exactly right Aaron that's that was the speculation or at least it wasn't law
enforcement statements but that was the speculation that was coming out earlier in in this case and in the investigation
there were people saying that Carnell was seated at the bench and the Kate was up either looking into
the river maybe skipping a rock or something of that nature Carnell is shot and killed and then Kate is shot and
killed and falls down the it's it's of course a little bit of a ravine like into the into the
river there so this River like like all fluctuates in depth but it's it's rather
wide and at the time of the homicides the water was pretty shallow and so when you see you can check out news
stories online news stories of this case and in the more recent ones the river's
quite higher at the time and the park bench looks like you're like two feet from the water
but when this when these homicides took place the river was rather low and it's my understanding that she fell
down into that that space into the dirt just before the water and so unfortunately
her body would be extremely obvious to those kayakers as they were coming by there are so many questions you can
literally come up with multiple scenarios of what could have happened uh just because I think she was trying to
get away because Carnell was suddenly shot doesn't mean that's exactly how it happened we don't know I'm just basing
it off of the timing of everything you also could question if she fell down and would be more exposed to other
people perhaps that meant the shooter didn't have time to do anything else and had to
leave yeah so one thing that's come into question here is the nature of the wounds and we do have some information
from the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner this is Dr Tom Gilson Dr Thomas Gilson I've personally met Dr
Gilson on a couple of occasions so the non-profit that I work for the porch light project we have worked hand in
hand with the Cuyahoga County medical examiner's office on a couple of cases this dude is a stand-up guy you know we
we look at these cases you and Justin the captain and I we look at these cases a new one every week sometimes they're
unsolved cases and when you have a case that goes unsolved for a year two three this one coming up on four years now
you do question the investigation and I think that's fair to do so I mean citizens do why can't podcasters do it
so I think it's fair to do so I will give my humble garage opinion here on this gentleman
if there is a problem with this investigation it's not coming from Dr Gilson I've as said I've met with them several
times when you talk about level of give a [ __ ] go ahead and put that at 100 for
Dr Gilson because he has personally taken out time of his busy work day and and spent time and resources from his
office to meet with the porch light project on several cases that being of some unidentified person's unidentified
remains and even a homicide a couple homicide cases so this is somebody that is willing to go the extra mile in
and meet with with some people that are eager to help and assist in some of these unsolved cases so uh
coming from his office the reports that I've seen state that Carnell Sledge unfortunately
died of multiple gunshot wounds To The Head And to be a little more detailed about that
most of the reports state two shots to the Head Catherine brown or Kate Brown the reports are that she suffered one
gunshot wound which killed her and some of the reports state that it was a singular gun shop to the Head
yes and so when you and I had spoken about this uh about a week ago you thought that that told you something
that Kate was shot once while Carnell was shot at least twice yes I did and I the thing was that when
we spoke about it I was a little unclear about the where on the person they were shot
and it sounded to me like if if we were talking one gunshot to the female victim
in multiple to the male victim my suspicion on that for for a period of time anyway was that maybe she was taken
out first and then he had an opportunity to respond now what we can say is it's obvious that they were attacked from
behind now can I say that they didn't see the killer approaching them no we can't say that but what we do know is
based off of information that's come out Carnell was in the seated position or or
seated at the bench just before the gunshot started and I think you're spot on with your statement there Aaron of of
the belief of possibly Kate was attempting to to flee you know uh this all went down very quickly and
I'm basing and backing up what you stated off of some information that I discovered recently this is from
uh Cleveland news 13. in a statement that says the family of the victims said that
Kate was shot running for her life so that Cardell would have been shot while still seated at the park bench
and I don't think she was up by the water I think she was sitting right next to him had
a split second to react she got up and started to go and it's still a shot at relatively close range the momentum
carrying her forward and pushing her close to the river falling over that that that it's a maybe a few feet a bit
of a ledge there leading down to the Rocky River yeah so once again I think we need to talk a bit more about
the timing because one of the things I learned was that this was after five o'clock and Carnell wasn't supposed to
be at this location at least according to his family he was supposed to be at his grandmother's house and no I haven't
and Aaron I do want to apologize it was Cleveland 19 news I think I said Cleveland 13 there just a second ago
this is interesting to me right because given the time period five o'clock that's the time when we think okay
you're just recently off of work uh what is this meet up here for and there there's been a lot of speculation
by the public as to what this Meetup or Rendezvous would be for and law enforcement has been pretty clear
and the families both families have been very clear these two knew each other they knew each other for an
extended period of time had known each other for 10 plus years I've even seen statements that it was
not uncommon for them to meet at this the statements are this location but can we say this very park bench no
um I think we we should probably generalize generalize that a little bit more and simply say it was probably not
uncommon for them to meet at this park what's interesting to me though is a statement from
Kate's family that said that she frequented the park uh with other people as well
so that would lead me to believe possibly this was a location of her choosing right so if we put that
together with again this is just speculation but if Carnell was supposed to be over
at his grandmother's place and people were trying to reach out to him asking where he was why are you not
over here this might have been something set up not too long prior to when they got
there this might have been a last minute thing and that would make you question why were they suddenly meeting at this
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hintwater.com today [Music] so for those that unfamiliar with the case Cardell Sledge age 40 when he's killed
he is an African-American man Kate Brown was age 33 when she was killed and she is a Caucasian woman
this has caused some to speculate could this be a hate crime or or something that is race related or or a racist
motivation because I think what's weird about this case to me it feels like while we have very few details
and limited information I look at this thing and from from the first couple of weeks till
where we sit today I still feel like we're talking about only a few scenarios that are that are likely here
that if it was somebody on foot or on bike or some random person in the park I see it it would have to be
some kind of racially motivated homicide or some kind of Thrill Kill or if they were targeted as we're led to
believe by statements from the FBI and the Metro Parks Police Department then I'm with you given the short window
there I mean they're only there they're by law enforcement as little as they're telling us the one thing they are
telling us is they were there for uh let me pull this up right in front of me because I want to make sure I hit this
out of the park they were only there between 502 and at the at the greatest 502 to 5 15.
and they're shot and killed or the shorter part of that would be 504 to 508. and they're shot and killed
has to mean that that one of them were followed there we know that they arrived in in two separate vehicles
I'm making a guess here that they were coming from two different locations somebody had to be watching one of these
individuals and and track them there and not only track them there but went undetected you would think they would
had to have gone undetected to Cornell or Kate right it I really believe that they arranged to meet there last
minute because he didn't inform anyone he was changing his plans uh his grandmother
was Audrey Corey and by all accounts that's where he was supposed to be was with her he took good care of her this
guy was known to be very caring [Music] um I mean he worked with special needs kids at Empower Sports
and it was all about letting anyone play sports you know when I was younger I would try to play sports and I was
always the last one picked because I was so scrawny and I wasn't very good at sports but uh you know at his program it
didn't matter who you were you could play basketball you know what I mean everybody could participate and so with
as caring as he was I even his own mother said uh that he was a loving man he was a God-fearing man he wasn't
perfect but they were proud of him and and Kate Brown everyone vouches for how wonderful she was these are like you
said wholesome people long time friends what would cause them at the last minute
to decide to meet at the park like that were they just going to meet and talk for a few minutes because maybe Kate had
something she wanted to tell him maybe she was feeling emotional maybe something happened and she needed to
talk to someone he said why don't we stop by the park and we can talk about it before I head on to my grandma's
house right we don't know what it was uh the speculation could take us many places but what we do know is they were
good enough friends that if one of them said hey could you meet me at the park I
want to talk about some stuff or whatever they would both go to the park that wouldn't even be a question right no it
wouldn't be a question I don't think so given what we've heard from Kate's family that she frequented the park
um her father said that it was a place that she would often go to meet her mother
and what where my inquisitive mind starts to go is well what what would it be that they needed to discuss in person
and in this setting rather than over the phone or through text and the other thing too given the timeline
of what we're being told of hey we've narrowed down the time of death to this short little window here we're not
telling you that we have any eyewitnesses because if we had an eyewitness what we would have is a
a suspect description and I know what you're about to jump in and say and we can Circle back to that here in a minute
but but to be Frank here in the early goings of this case an investigation we're not told
that there is any eyewitness right and so to have this very short little time window of approximately seven minutes
or 10 minutes depending on what timeline you go by of this is when the shots occurred this is when they were killed
I start to wonder was there some form of communication was there you know a text
sent out by Carnell at 507 uh to to a family member to a friend or a co-worker and so they know okay Carnell was alive
and well at 507 because he sent out this text message the the thing is I did not
know that he was supposed to be going to his grandmother's house that evening but what is interesting and
what I I think makes it easy for me to believe that is his grandmother said something so cute and you knew that they
were close and and he was very close with his parents and close with his grandmother but one of her
statements was talking about her grandson was he loved to eat and I love to cook and she said it with with this
beautiful smile and um so it makes perfect sense that Carnell was on his way to see Grandma
that evening uh who knows did he need to be there at 5 30 did he need to be there
at five we do know one thing I do know based off of some statements uh he was working as a an audio
technician audio visual technician for a company croissant yes Creston thank you and he a person
that he worked with who he interacted with that day the day that he was killed said we spoke
everything seemed normal he was his happy-go-lucky self uh he was always a joy to be around no different on that
day we discussed uh an expense report or something of that nature something very
much work related and that person went on to say Carnell would have left work that day sometime
between four and five pm this is at Crescent digital yes so I you know so he may have gone
from work to meet up with Kate Brown that's what we're guessing here right mm-hmm
I don't know if knowing why they were meeting would tell us anything or not because as we know if if someone if
someone is targeting you it may have been someone who didn't understand the relationship that Carnell
had with Kate that's just one possibility right exactly and that I think that is
underlined and should be easily understood by everybody and easily believed because as soon as these two
poor people were killed people that didn't know them that were reading about this in the newspaper or
watching it on the news were questioning what is the relationship between Carnell
and Kate and we have family telling us they were friends now does do what I expect
parents out there everywhere to know what type of relationship that their 40 year old son or 33 year old daughter has
with other adults the details and the specifics of those of the of that relationship or dynamics
of that relationship no but again I think that you could have those two theories that we're discussing here
tonight fit based off of what you just said a misunderstanding of what it is they're
really what their relationship was or the nature of their relationship on this given day yeah it's one thing to try and
figure out what happened it's another to try and look at the people involved to see if there were any clues along the
way and when I was reading up on Kate it was said that her dad was talking about how she had lost 100
pounds she was exercising regularly doing yoga and he said she was just better than ever
better than ever so at least as far as the Brown family was con concerned Kate seemed to have everything going her
way everything was looking up because she just was uh you know from what I was reading she had a real zest
for life and she was motivated and then if you look at Carnell's life he took great joy in taking it Taking
Care of other people making them feel good so again I don't look at this and think
they were up to no good at this park I just think I think it's what everyone's saying they
were really good friends they decided to meet at the park for some reason and like I said if I had to put
I don't know a guess on this it would be one of them maybe needed to talk about something and who better to talk about
it with than one of their very best friends a trusted friend a trusted long time
friend you know and sometimes when you're going through something or sometimes when you're faced
with something the best person to talk to is one of those I I know that I have a couple
buddies that I've had to deliver the hard truth to them once or twice and they've had to
deliver the hard truth to me once or twice throughout the decades that we've known each other and
um there's been times when I've had to tell them they're wrong or tell them to move on from something that's not good
for them and they've had to do the same for me there's been other times too where you just say look I'm not I'm not
in a sticky situation here nothing's bad with Nick I just need to talk I need some advice I gotta bounce something off
of you and those are the people you go to and I think that's exactly what was probably
Happening Here what I think is less likely out of the two scenarios that I think
are the most probable is I would go 1A and one b one b being the racially motivated homicide and look
it's not something that's comfortable that's comfortable to talk about but it happens
right it it has happened and unfortunately it continues to happen there will always be hateful people
in every country everywhere but we also have people that do kill for the thrill of it I don't think with with
giving such little information I don't think it's easy for us to rule out those possibilities
I have spoke to some of the people that are from that area grew up in that area uh and and have lived there for for many
years they agree that that would be the second most likely Theory here that that they would put
forward the first being that somebody as you said uh was either jealous wanted some kind
of Revenge or did not understand the nature of their relationship and for that to be the case I'm with you
Aaron I think somebody had to have fallen had to have to follow one of these individuals to the park that day
that evening and then that makes you wonder and take it a step further was the intention to
take them both out or was one of the victims just collateral damage right did they even know there was going
to be a second person there or was this going to be a planned confrontation and that second person through their
plans awry before we get into the and I'm using air quotes here you can't see me but you can
feel it with your air with your ear balls out there people air quotes before we get into the eyewitness
Aaron is it okay if I throw out two of the rumors that were going around I always I always when when there's a
case that has so many open-ended questions as this one does I do like to put my ear to the ground
and hear what some of the locals are saying and I I know that it's a bit of Reckless
speculation but in more than one case where cases went unsolved for 10 years eight years
in more than one occasion there has been a local rumor that many were talking about and then later it turns out to be
well that's exactly how it went down um so in this case I don't know if these rumors have
reached you I'm I'm obviously proximity wise quite a bit closer to the case being here in Ohio than than you are in
beautiful Kansas City home of the the greatest quarterback known to man Patrick Mahomes but uh the what I heard
from the locals is one of two possibilities that it was either an X of carnels or that Kate had met somebody via a
dating app and either Cardinal had offered her some advice or maybe had discovered that the
Suitor or potential Suitor that she was talking to may have not been who he says he was rumors there's
no way for us to know until uh like you said it could take years and if this thing is solved perhaps one
of those rumors will have been proven to be true I do think it's possible that an ex
would be involved just because they still are in a certain place emotionally that the other person isn't
and so uh while they're haunted the other person has moved on and they don't even know that there's a plot against
them before we get to that eyewitness let's I want to talk about something that that does bother me about the case
and you know what it's weird because we do these cases and sometimes I get accused of being too
much of a blue blood and then go ahead and tune in next week and you go all right well sounds like Nick doesn't like
the police at all I think you look at the yeah I think you have to look at these situations on a
case-by-case basis and one thing that I try to say and remind people is every one of these cases is unique
none of them fit in any particular size or shape box they're all very unique cases because
we're talking about Unique Individuals victims suspects locations circumstances everything is very unique with every
case same as the people that are investigating the case and just like any career or any Walk of Life or any work
any job out there there are people that are good at their jobs and people that straight up suck at their jobs and guess
what that means there are bad doctors out there there are bad people in law enforcement but they're also great
people in law law enforcement most of them are great most of them are fantastic now I'm not accusing anybody in this
particular case of not being great at their job because I don't know what information they do or don't have or or
maybe there's simply no information out there but one thing I one thing that always kind of bothers me about these
press conferences where us the public we rely so heavily on what we're being told
by the experts and by the authorities but then they're coming back to us during this press conferences and asking
us for help but then when the media starts to raise their hand and ask questions at the end of your conference
and your your answer for everything is well because this is an ongoing investigation
I I can't answer that question or that you're referencing right now police chief Katherine Dolan she's the
one that was uh how's genius media briefings yeah and that that has been her answer for everything so where all
these investigations and cases are unique that answer certainly is not new unique to any case and not unique to
this case because that's the answer I've heard every darn time that a question is
asked the thing that drives me nuts is often in John Q public may not know this or
may not have put much interest into it to figure it out but a lot of times these press
conferences are led by either a police chief or in a larger Department you'll have
like a public information officer typically that person that's giving the press conference standing at
the podium they've not actually actively worked the investigation themselves that holds true most of the time I can't
say that it's true in this case but I get the vibe that that's what we're getting here Aaron we do it makes
sense that the chief would be the one to come forward and talk to the public but
does the chief have the ability to answer these questions it is she choosing to stand up there and make make
a strategic decision as far as her her investigation goes and says well I can't answer that
because it pertains to an investigation or is it I can't answer that because I don't know the answer to that question
and this is my fallback because the question that that I wanted to hear the most is
a very astute reporter says look there's got to be surveillance cameras on this road and that road and this road
how many surveillance cameras are there in this location and were you able to access them you know what time the
victims arrived at the parking lot so you must have some information did you get that from surveillance footage
answer well that pertains to our investigation so I cannot answer that question somebody followed them there and and
I would be willing to to slap down a Benjamin Franklin right now on the table and wager that somebody followed one of
these people to the park that day and then went in and shot and killed both of them
can we can you pull anything from that surveillance footage have you checked all of those bases and if so what is
that information telling you do you have a car of interest do you have a vehicle
of interest and that's what we're expecting that they know some things that they're just not letting us know
about and we wouldn't know until they make an arrest you had some brilliant information of
Carnell was intending to or was supposed to be going to Grandma's house and either at the last minute may have
changed his plans or this could have just been a brief stop along the way do you have any idea of where Kate was
coming from because we know we do know that that maybe Carnell did not go directly from work to the Metro Park
he may have given that we have a co-worker saying he could have left as late as 5 PM
but that gives us some idea or at least gives us a little bit of detail about his timeline for the day in
question do you know where Kate was coming from do we have any clue on that well real quick with Carnell they might
know based on interviews done with his co-workers uh what time he actually did leave maybe someone does know what time
he left as for Kate I actually do not know where she was coming from but she may have been at work as well
I would imagine if she because typically when she went to the park they said she
exercised at the park a lot but if she drove there to meet Carnell then obviously she wasn't there exercising I
could not find where Kate worked I found some information stating that she worked
at a jewelry store for approximately seven years and the way that it was worded made it sound like
she was probably still working there at the time of her death yes and that's what I assume is that she was still
working there because not only did they say where she worked but she said she considered her co-workers and boss
like family correct but if you look take a look at her obituary it seems as though
she is the kind of person that is good at making friends and is a loyal friend they said that and this is in her
obituary once she was your friend she would always be your friend she was very loyal well and something that backs that
up is what we do know her long-term friendship with Carnell if Carnell was coming from work
Aaron what I'm showing here is if he was at the home office uh this would have put him about a 12
mile drive from the home office to where his vehicle was parked so about a 20-minute drive if that was in fact
where he if he came directly from work it would it would appear to me given the statements of he would have left work
between 4 and 5 PM that only leaves a very short window of time for him to have stopped elsewhere
along the way so that's where this is at right I mean we know that the Metro Park
police have investigated this we know they have had assistance from the FBI we know that once the shootings occurred
that the park was checked for evidence but the only things that they admitted to binding were several shell casings
from a weapon and they didn't seem to really want to comment about the footage that would
have come from the cameras in the area they didn't want to talk about the footage that would have come from the
cameras the shell casings would tell us what because we we don't we don't have information about the gun that's
released to the public we're not told what caliber or if more than one gun was used
we can assume that it was not a revolver that given that they found shell casings
at the scene you had found a report that stated three shell casings that's what I've found in all my reading
it seemed the most consistent bit of information regarding the shooting as far as evidence found were several shell
casings which are three um or if you might say a few a few shell casings three shell casings found there
but um that goes along with some of the reports that he was shot twice and she sorry
that car now was shot twice and Kate shot once now right but I recall you saying you
wondered if he was the target yes and that he would be a witness who needed to be stopped
I I wondered that and I think you could argue both sides of the coin and people put in in dumb people like me put a lot
of psychology into the way that these crimes go down but a lot of people would suggest that that
one of two situations he would have been shot first because he was the target or you could argue because he's the man
imposes the bigger threat to the shooter that you eliminate the threat first and then take out the target
I would definitely suggest people look up pictures of Carnell Sledge that would give them some idea of why he
would have been shot first and that you're correct uh if you're well when perpetrators shoot people they often try
to take out the person who poses the biggest threat to them and I would say Carnell would have posed a threat and
keep in mind the way this goes down the way that we are kind of explained that it went down or the way
that we have to put these pieces together would lead you to believe that they that either he was seated at the
bench or they both were seated at the park bench when the first shot was fired and so if you are the perpetrator or
perpetrators and you have the ability to sneak up behind them you would unfortunately get to choose
who you're going to Target first and as you just said look up pictures of Cornell and and given his background too
I mean he's he's an athletic looking guy he's a guy that looks to be in good physical condition
now I know you're just you're just chopping at the bit right here aren't you Aaron you want to get to this this
eyewitness no I mean you've teased it a few times I think we should get to it now because uh
there are definitely people waiting to find out what else is gonna happen here because for many people I suspect this
will be the first time they're hearing of this case I'm not saying no one's covered it but I don't think it's gotten
as much press as much coverage as some other cases and I find that to be a little strange
with it being uh the nature of the crime itself and I I get it they don't think it's random
they think it was targeted nobody else should be afraid to go to the park I get all that but look I mean
okay then Metro Parks police solved the case prove it and I I'm not gonna look I not gonna hold back here Aaron
I'm a little concerned that the Metro Parks police I I reviewed something that stated that the FBI took over the case
at some point I don't believe that to be true that looked to be more to me to be somebody's speculation
on a message board somewhere it looks to me like the Metro Parks police are still the primary
investigators on this case and the FBI is assisting them there is a local office there in Cleveland so that is
helpful but the way that I see this going down and from other cases that I've reviewed
you typically have the primary and then the FBI who says they're assisting it's more of a hey we check in from time to
time and see if they need anything or we sit down and have a meeting every month
or every or quarterly and put our heads together and see what comes about I'm not going to lie and I feel bad
saying this on a microphone where it's being recorded I don't feel great that it's that the
primary on this is the Cleveland Metro the I'm sorry the uh the Metro Parks police
the police chief says it herself there in the in the conference in the first news conference
the parks are a very safe place we've not had a homicide in our Metro Parks for over two decades
well I don't know how much confidence I have in your experience in investigating
these matters these very serious matters now if it were a situation where I was worried
about if people were walking their dogs on a leash or off of a leash I feel very
confident that the Metro Parks police would straighten that situation out but this is that's not what we're
talking about here so do you want to play garage guy and lead us into this eyewitness and let me play
Generation Y guy or should we remain in our roles well let's just see what I say so
there was a letter that came into the media right and it went to Fox 8 news this Anonymous
letter was sent in and it went into detail about the person who had shot Carnell Sledge and Kate
Brown now they said it was a woman wearing a green hoodie cuffed jeans and black walking shoes
and it also said that this woman had words with Carnell before she opened fire so Fox 8 News got this letter
they turned it over to the FBI now this letter came in months after the murders but in May of 2021 that's when Fox 8
released that letter to the public and the FBI put out a plea saying if you wrote this please come forward we want
to talk with you and they got lucky because within a week a person showed up to talk to the police
about it now once again you're wondering what could we find out because the police
have been so tight-lipped so I would say take this with a grain of salt because we don't know what they're
doing here because in any investigation you have to be careful about what you release sometimes they release nothing
sometimes they release a lot but they hold a few things back the spokesperson for the police said
that individual told us it was a premonition that they'd had several times and they felt like it was coming
to them and they needed to report it it was nothing that they had seen yeah and so this got the area in quite a
stir right so when this news broke that they received an anonymous letter and and and in fact
the way that the news broke it almost implied that it was just an eyewitness that came forward and then then shortly
thereafter you learned that it come it came via Anonymous letter they yes did release that letter and
when I reviewed it the first thing that I thought was this doesn't sound like a an eyewitness
and I know you've reviewed these for the Generation Y in cases that you've reviewed
the words and the way that they were describing things and and in particular I'll read one statement that was in the
letter that kind of showed the cards to me that this was coming from a person that believes that they have psychic
abilities it says they ask a question to the investigators now yes this was sent to the media and
not to law enforcement so it says none of my business but none of my business by were sorry I'm reading
their exact words which gets difficult none of my business I believe they're trying to say but were the two talking
marriage meaning Carnell and Kate don't believe this was the motive and correct me if I'm wrong on on any of
these portions here Aaron then they go on to say I hit a snag I thought I had a name but
who said the name wasn't Cornell or Kate it was a white man sitting on the bench
with Sandy brown hair and glasses like Drew Carey he was looking behind the bench at the woman and he said quote for
God's sake Amy put down the gun but the more the woman was talked to the more agitated and irate she became
the I hit a snag was the telling part to me I thought I had a name you hear that often when psychics are
giving their reports you know I'm oh I'm I thought I was getting a name or I last
time I I had this vision I I saw a name or heard a name and so when immediately when I saw that
I thought I hope this psychic this air quotes witness comes forward to clear up that they weren't
actually there that day but how do people respond to this how does law enforcement respond to this
when someone is coming forward with a lot of information but then it turns out they dreamed it or had a vision of it
it's the whole Oh I thought I was getting a name or I thought I was getting more information then suddenly I
lost it but I do have this much well you want to know why they came forward and so you if you are this person you've
just opened yourself up to investigation and one thing you do have on your side one thing that I would say you have in
your favor as looking less guilty than more guilty would be that you did in fact come forward and say hey yes it was
me I was the person that wrote that letter and no I was not there at the park that day
but I'm just trying to help out and I've been having these dreams or visions or whatever and I can't shake them and I'm
I maybe I'm just a good person and I thought I could help out they look like good people I wanted to try to help
there's that possibility there's also the possibility that and I would think that this would be less likely I would I
would think that the person would likely not come forward if they were trying to
throw a wrench in the investigation um but if it was a a man of color who was responsible then
of course somebody would throw out the idea that well it was this woman that looked like Reba McIntyre uh with a
hoodie on uh so yeah it's it's one of the weird weirder ends of this case or weirder angles
anyway of this case and at first I didn't know what to to make of it and I know that the the news kind of ran
with this Anonymous letter for for a portion anyway for several months well I think
they had to right they were wanting to report on this case the police weren't giving them anything
this letter was the only thing really to report on at that point well the families wanted
more attention to and rightfully so to their loved ones case and I'm thankful to the media Outlets that
were choosing to run the story and remind the the people of this case one thing we should point out too is
there's a considerable award or sorry a considerable reward for money a money reward here in this case
one hundred thousand dollars my understanding Aaron is that 25 000 of that is being put up by the Federal
Bureau of Investigation and the other seventy five thousand is from the family yeah I know that at first the
FBI offered a twenty thousand dollar reward Crime Stoppers offer two thousand five hundred dollars for information
um later of course these amounts increased including money from uh the families so
yeah it's a hundred thousand dollars so when you have a crime like this that's so Brazen right
in full view of the public or you would imagine and this person got away with it so far
a hundred thousand dollars if you would think that would bring forth some more tips
someone would want to claim that if they knew something and what's Wild about that anonymous tip and then of
course later we learned that it it's not Anonymous the person comes forward but I remember on the news reports
that they were saying that there were some details that they believed that the anonymous tipster got correct
in in their in their letter and so it held a little bit of weight right it was holding water a little bit or at least
portions of it and so again that's just one of those I I don't know I I and there are people
out there that are shaking their head at me right now they're like why would you
put any um thought why would you waste your time on it as soon as you hear that it's a
person saying that they're getting visions I don't know that I'm betting much on what they're saying but
I do know that there are detectives that I've spoke to that would say nope throw it right out
it's a waste of time there are other detectives that will tell you you know what when you've run out of ideas you're
willing to take phone calls from anyone tell me something that's outside of the box tell me something that I haven't
thought of yet and oh by the way tell me why you think this or do you have any of any information to
to back that up I really believe you can't throw everything out can't throw anything out you might take something
that came in and say okay this isn't going to solve the case for us but maybe it's a puzzle piece
that you don't know how it fits into the whole thing but it's a piece so you can't throw it out
I think once you start uh getting tunnel vision in such an open-ended case like this
you could definitely make some mistakes you also have to wonder as a detective when you look at something like this why
did this person have such a strong desire to to the point of it becoming a need that they had to reach out
communicate this information to somebody even though it was a news Outlet instead of law
enforcement why why do they come forward and it may Simply Be they believe that their
psychic it also could be more of an emotional response they feel guilty because they know
something or they heard something or somebody they know knows something and that too goes back to this reward
money one hundred thousand dollars is not a reward that is put together for somebody
that was in the park that day that saw something and just decided not to come forward or forgot that they saw
something or heard something or did see something and they're too afraid no in my opinion
one hundred thousand dollars that reward is put together for somebody who has direct information
from the killer or one of the killers that somebody told somebody somebody made a threat
oh you know the you know that that thing that happened to those people in the Park oh you know I could do that to you
or maybe they were talking about one of those individuals beforehand talking about how upset they were with them and
then they were quiet after the murders exactly exactly I don't think that whoever did this and I again would bet a
Benjamin Franklin right now that it was a targeted attack just as we're being told
I can't figure out who was the target one the other or both but I don't believe for a second that 10
minutes before this happened this person decided to do this I think this likely was something that
was building and as you said they may have told somebody in advance maybe not that they
are planning to go to the park maybe not that they're planning to take somebody out
but that they had a beef with one of these people had a big problem with either Cornell or with Kate
and damn it they were going to do something about it and so that's what this reward money is
for um so if you're out there and you hear this stop sitting on your hands come forward
you know they have we have multiple law enforcement agencies that you can reach out to there's also a
dedicated tip line where you can be anonymous so anybody with information can call the
Cleveland Branch the Cleveland FBI Branch at 216-522-1400 or you could call that dedicated Metro
Parks police tip line at 440 331 -5219 is there anything that we missed Aaron or anything that we did not get to
yes definitely for people that want to know how this may have gone down they should check out an animation put
together by Scott Roeder he did this in 2021 he's a crime scene Reconstructionist with the evidence room
and he used the autopsy report and he also visited the crime scene to put this together so I think it's helpful to
actually see it and um I definitely hope that someone listening maybe can make a difference in this case
because that's why we're covering it we would like for people to think about this case keep
it alive because I would hate to think that Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown died and that
their families will not get Justice Aaron I want to thank you for joining me here in the garage it's always a
pleasure always a lot of fun um given the circumstances obviously we're talking about these real life
tragedies and the loss of these two great people and these two families are suffering a lot still and and need the
Public's help to get some form of in some sense of closure but I do want to thank you for
joining me and and taking the time out and I'm hoping we can do it again absolutely anytime man you just let me
know all right take care Cheers Cheers [Music] all right lots of great stuff from one
half of the great Generation Y podcast our recommendation this week if you haven't already go and check out the
Generation Y podcast your ear balls are going to love it and when you're there you just might find the captain if you
do tell him I said hi we will be back at it again next week so make sure you stop
by the garage and see us and until then be good be kind and don't live thank you

Cleveland MetroParks Murders ////// 660

Part 1of 1

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Carnell Sledge and Katherine Brown were longtime friends. On June 4, 2019 the two met at the Rocky River Reservation, one of Cleveland’s MetroParks. It was a beautiful day and many were out and about. The two arrived separately but at about the same time which was right around 5pm. They found a bench near the river to sit down and have some conversation. Just about twenty minutes later kayaker’s found the two dead. The killer or killers are still at large. If you have any information please contact the FBI’s Cleveland Field Office at 216-622-6842. Tips can also be submitted at tips.fbi.gov (http://tips.fbi.gov/)

A very big thank you to one of my very favorite podcasters - Aaron from the Generation Why podcast for joining me in the Garage this week to discuss this still unsolved case. The Generation Why podcast has been pumping out great podcast episodes since 2012. You can listen to them wherever you get your podcasts. For more information go to www.GenWhyPod.com (http://www.genwhypod.com/)

Beer of the Week - There’s No Crying in Baseball from Evil Genius Beer Company

Garage Grade - 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5

Brief Summary

Hosts discuss the unsolved double homicide of Kate Brown and Carnell Sledge, exploring details of the case and the ongoing investigation.

Key points

The Search for Answers. Kim Brown, mother of victim Kate, pleads for information as the investigation continues.
A Shocking Double Homicide. In broad daylight, two friends were gunned down in a public park, leaving the community in shock.
Speculation on a Meeting. The circumstances of a meeting between two long-time friends raises questions about their intentions.
Rumors Surrounding the Case. Local rumors suggest possible motives involving past relationships or dating apps.
Unique Cases. Each case is unique, with distinct victims, suspects, and circumstances.
Eyewitness Letter. An anonymous letter details a woman involved in the shooting, stirring public interest.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Somebody knows something and I'm hoping somebody will step forward.

Kim Brown pleads for information about her daughter's murder.

4:34WatchApr 7, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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