Brian Shaffer: Revisited /// Part 2 /// 291 | Forensic Files

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[Music] crime so we should probably just jump right into some of the possible theories
here right so one of the theories that we discussed when we covered the case back in
2016 was the possibility that somehow Brian did leave the bar without being seen without his friends seeing him
decides to walk home now mind you this could be 3:00 a.m. on a weekend and this area it's while it's not a bad area it's
certainly better today than it was back then I wouldn't label it like a crime ridden trouble area however it's you
know there there are a lot of smart people that say nothing good happens after 2 a.m. and so one of the theories
that we kicked around when we discussed this was the possibility of and this is a pretty simple theory that he leaves
the bar and during the course of that six blocks walking home somebody he he's either involved in some type of
altercation with someone or him walking alone and and I want to point something out here I'm I'm not an expert at
many things but I am an expert at drinking and I do believe from the footage that I saw of him outside of the
Ugly Tuna that night I believe him to be quite intoxicated and therefore him being by
himself walking alone in the dark visibly intoxicated he's an easy target for someone if you just want to rob
somebody real quick and so one thought and theory that we kicked around was that could this
have been a robbery that went bad or a fight that went wrong somehow he's killed or snatched up and pulled into a
vehicle the likely scenario of disposing of the body might be one of the many dumpsters that are throughout that
entire area so we kicked that around for a little bit when we discussed this case
in 2016 it seems pretty plausible but again we have the issue of him getting out of
the bar yeah without knowing where the surveillance uh camera frames are as far as the the the screen you know he would
have had he almost would have had to have accidentally not appeared in those surveillance uh
videos but I do I do think uh the chance that he got jumped if he was able to get
out of there and not picked up on surveillance think I think that's possible absolutely so the scenario that
you're Pres presing is that he's walked a bit of a distance away from the Ugly Tuna because we have to get away from
any cameras that are on buildings to pick up any sort of activity involving a mugging or him being snatched up and
pulled into a car so yeah I could see that happen I could see where someone or some budies would be driving and
following him briefly before making a quick decision to pull him in the car clearly drunk and we're going to see
what we can get off of him well and it's also an interesting area too because it's it is a college area it's a college
town so then things get ramped up I had a buddy that was walking home from a bar
ends up getting jumped by four guys for no reason they didn't like talk trash to
him they just got out of the car and fight was on and he lost uh all his front teeth um we also had a friend that
I went to high school with that was leaving work crossing a street almost hit by a car just kind of says hey guys
what the hell are you doing those guys turned back around and shot the guy to death and that was on 11th Avenue which
if you look at Google Maps 11th Avenue and it's pretty close close and this is uh within a few years of that shooting
so there's those possibilities did something like that happen and then they shoot the guy and put him in a car and
drive off and never to be seen again because this is a lot of people that are in their early 20s not drinking experts
going out to these bars drinking and then doing stupid [ __ ] afterwards no gunshots F heard and uh
you know it wouldn't have the murder weapon if that's what happened couldn't have been a knife either there wasn't
any blood on the street certainly not in the bar or anything like that well it's
such a big area and it's so high it's so heavily populated that I think even if there was blood on the street nobody it
wouldn't throw up any red flags you know what I mean because there's hundreds of
thousands of people up on campus every week drinking and partying and there's probably puke on every street and
there's probably puke and piss between yeah behind every uh Alleyway but not blood possibly blood I'm just saying
that you're saying you're I think what you're saying is that it could go unnoticed right that's what I'm saying
it potentially could go unnoticed the other thing too is if he's not doing a straight shot walking along the roads or
sidewalks if you're going to do a straight shot you're cutting through some areas to get from that bar to his
apartment and I mean it could be as simple as someone follows him into a dark a dark area where he's alone and
and very much so just wants his wallet you know here you see a preppy looking drunk guy walking in the middle of the
night by himself that's an easy target to me well I hate to bring up the psychic kids but you know psychic kids
did a episode on the schaer case and one of the kids were was picking up this vibe that Brian was being watched by
somebody that was on the balcony of the bar so if you're out on the balcony you could see into the club but like I said
any corner of the club you're at you'd be able to see everybody and was Brian a little drunk confident and being
the good time guy and flirting with girls and was there some pissed off guy going man this guy's talking to all
these girls and you know or he talked to my girl right or right and then you go I
got an issue with this guy or you know the guy that's too shy to talk to girls and he sees this guy and
he's angry with him uh cuz I do find we were kind of talking earlier like I find the
Psychic conversations interesting I don't hold a lot of weight to them but in the conversation with those psychic
kids they claim that they felt that Brian was at the bar at one point left and came back and we know that to be
true and that information wasn't out there to the public that that often so the fact that they picked up on
that I thought was interesting I would have a much easier time swallowing the scenario that
somebody saw him flirting with all the girls or flirting with his particular girlfriend this like mystery person
right if there was a a body or some blood or something people and maybe I'm totally wrong about this this this is
even relatable to anyone who would have picked him up dragged him into a car to mug him like I am I wrong in thinking
that most people just wouldn't know how to dispose of a body so cleanly you no you're not wrong I mean
so you're you're now talking about someone who's got the capability to spontaneously kill and also the
wherewithal to cover it up so so perfectly my original thought would have been that if let's say a group of thugs
ended up shooting him for some reason or killing him as a result of a robbery having gone bad that the the quick easy
disposal would be to somehow hoist him up into one of those dumpsters the tricky thing with that is we do know the
family was searching dumpsters in that area as early as Sunday night Sunday evening and they did a grid search on
the local landfill right which is something I don't think we were totally aware of or or knew the details of when
we covered it back in 2016 but the uh the difficult thing with that is you have to wonder could any of those
dumpsters been emptied on Saturday or Sunday before the search was before they were actively searching for him one two
there was as Captain points out there was that grid search at the landfill that that did occur and I can't remember
if it occurred the Thursday or Friday after he went missing or if it was the following week but it was relatively
soon well again what's Difficult about this too is it's it's a very it's a condensed area but there's a lot of
dumpsters there's there's a dumpster around every corner yes that's why that was kind of my go-to but but the but the
thing is for if Brian let's say got out of the bar and walked 15 minutes north he he there wouldn't be enough
people to check all those dumpsters around that area during the search was there
any uh result of did we talk about like uh search dogs cab dogs did they they at
the landfill yeah did they do any searches with dogs in the bar they did outside of the bar regarding the
landfill search other than it being a a grid search that was conducted by law enforcement with the city's
help I don't know know much about it other than that and that it occurred relatively soon after he went missing
okay it might be pretty tough for cadav dogs to work in a dump uh location anyway and there was video footage of
the uh parking garage right yeah okay because my head immediately went to well he he probably tried to walk back to
Clint and Meritt this vehicle in the parking garage and then maybe you had somebody pick up in the parking garage
and and take off with him for some reason but if there's no account video account of him entering the garage then
I guess that checks that one off the list what bothers me and maybe this is going to come off very arrogant but to
me the cops are saying we check this and we check this footage and we check the back uh exit footage to me it's I didn't
check the footage so I don't know it was how well it was checked yeah that's very
true I mean some somebody missed something somewhere because he's not in the building anymore well I just don't
understand why you can't say if if you've looked at the footage from the garage the footage from the escalator
the footage from the the back hallway why not release that to the public other than what Tim was saying is that the
other patrons of that night to protect them but it's like well who cares you know and and the footage is not like
the clearest footage in the world anyways well when you walk into a place that has video surveillance you walk by
a sign that says you're subject to being right to to being uh your likeness is being taped I really think because the
the main detective retired I believe in January on this case and there's a new detective on the case now and I wish the
first thing they did was to compile this footage and either put it on a website or to release it onto YouTube for people
to analyze oh I have a uh kind of a random question I haven't seen anything about
any drug use for Brian and I don't want to attach a stigma um because we know that can happen a missing person cases
but was he did he ever dabble in like some kind of upper or speed in order to study I I did see somewhere that he
stayed up uh all night at times stud and I know that's kind of common and Aderall
was big back then yeah yeah and and well pills in general during that time were were pretty big so was he taking ader
roll and instead of just taking it was he sniffing it was he was he a Coke usage I have not heard any rumors about
this I know he went through a period where he was uh a little more um living the hippie like lifestyle and so smoking
pot but I wouldn't put put it past somebody that is in school to be a doctor and and
spending long nights studying and and long shifts and and everything else he had going on yeah to to use a upper I
wouldn't put it past him but I I don't know if there's any evidence of that or even rumors of it I also just want to
point out that he was grieving still his mom had died three weeks before so that
is definitely a period of time in a person's life where they're not really thinking clearly probably not even
really remembering uh too much of that time so in that in that scenario he's grieving he's got the pressures of
school he's got the pressures of uh being financially um in debt he's got his maybe his girlfriend that he's
feeling pressure to marry and in that moment he's drank just enough to say [ __ ] it I'm done I'm walking out of here
and he chooses to walk away from his life at at 2 in the morning without any indication and and after being wait and
he's the luckiest man in the world yeah that chose to leave a bar to leave his life and by the way there's no footage
of him leaving the bar I mean unless he like beautifully orchestrated this elaborate scenario to
pretend to be that intoxicated analyzed all of the cameras in the neighborhood so bought the plane
ticket bought the plane ticket to Florida to fool everybody that he was going to Florida voicemail to his
girlfriend y so that's all playing into his hand he he probably scouted out the area to say I can't walk down that
street or that street because of these security cameras but I know that I can walk past the construction site because
there's no security cameras and then he yeah gets into a boat on the Little River and paddles away I mean so even
him running away doesn't make any sense here's what's tough about some of these cases I mean even look at like the mar
case one of the things that you you go did did he did Brian schaer analyze all this
stuff one was he the most lucky guy that decided to go missing on his own accord
ever or did he plan any of this and it seems so farfetched but then you come back to the idea of well this guy was
intelligent I mean he was clever so is it possible yes I think it's highly unlikely and same way with like the mara
case was she clever enough to do that possibly it just seems so highly unlikely that you would
decide to as you're drinking and hitting on girls to be like H this life is too much I'm going to go away and move to a
you know some community and and uh meditate all day long yeah it seems very very unlikely and really this the
surveillance video is is the part that makes it seem the most unlikely to me because again I he he would have had to
have accidentally been not seen on those surveillance videos there's no way for him to have known what the frame was on
all those cameras throughout that walk home or in the in that building right but I think again I this contradicts the
the police but I think it goes back to the security guards telling me how unbelievably easy it would be to leave
the building and not be seen and if you base everything off of what they're saying then he just left and went home
we we don't if he let's say he got home he didn't get jumped no robbery he gets home he wakes up the next day and says
yeah yeah now I'm going to go missing the difficult thing there is we have no activity with ATM and we have no
movement of his car and nothing's ever been touched as far as his bank account any credit card
activity correct okay so well so that would mean that if he if he managed to get home and and he
slept and woke up and the next morning he said well this is going to be the day he would have had to have planned for
months before to get a new credit card probably under a different name right because if he's that smart to disappear
then he's going to know that he has to come up with a new identity or he had all those pieces in place was there any
search of a computer did he ever have any searches on on things like this on how to fake your identity or uh the
police did take his computer yeah at some point um I don't know what was learned from I don't think there was
ever a report that I heard that I'm aware of do you know being of anything of concern being on his
computer right yeah that I I have not heard that either and we do know that the police had his computer and I
believe they held it for quite some time and eventually released it to Brian's father and I think the family still has
even though his father's passed the family still has that computer but it seems to me like if there was anything
interesting or of interest to the police on there they may not have released it um the thing though too that's weird and
and Captain you really hit on something in the sense of of one thing if if he if
he chose to walk away be it if it were on purpose that it worked out this way or just on by happen stance it's kind of
a it's a very theatrical departure one two it would make him the luckiest man to disappear not being picked up on
camera but if if we could go the opposite direction and say he met with Foul Play somehow well now we have the
luckiest killer luckiest criminals right the luckiest criminal because now we don't have anything pointing police in
their direction right and we certainly don't have the public being pointed in any direction because you you if you P
if you pull the public half of them are going to question the the building and if he ever left the building to begin
with we had a really interesting conversation last night where we ranked we did yeah a couple interesting
conversations but we said what's what's more likely with the cases that we have been looking at like Brandon Lawson
Brian Schaefer Mo Murray and Brianna Matlin which one of those has more of a criminal activity element to it or
strikes you as having the highest percentage of Foul Play Right which I think that's a great great experiment
because if if you're if we're going to do this I'm Banna matlin's would stand out as so
obviously related to Foul Play just due to where her car was found and how her car was found but on the on the contrary
you could say that that might look like the the highest percentage of a runaway and she's just staging the car to look
like that so I was just thinking about like how frustrating this case is because it didn't happen in area like
MOA or Briana or Brandon Lawson those are isolated single person incidents yeah almost in the middle of nowhere
almost in the middle of nowhere and this is in the middle of everywhere in front
of a a crowded bar in the middle of a crowded bar and security cameras and there were two police officers there
right outside of the bar in the building but outside the bar or security people well no there were police officers Poli
a whole security team that rounds that whole area so here's a little piece of information
that hasn't not um been released to the public that often this breaking news so the situation where when he goes to eat
with his father that day that that wasn't some hey let's just get together for lunch that was kind of to get
together to see if we're going to be able to keep having a relationship so that to me is a little
strange and then the fact that he was also supposed to hang out with his brother that night now his brother does
have an alibi they went to the funny bone and with his girlfriend people saw them there and then afterwards they were
supposed to meet up with Brian and they never did and then they said okay well we're going to go to a bar I believe
it's in Pickerington and they have a bar there they have a couple drinks there and some people see them there so that's
kind of their Al by but we were talking a little bit earlier there was money that was going to come to
Brian his father and his brother from his mother's death not a lot of money but I still
think that has to be put on the table and that's part of the conversation that has never been but he didn't get the
money right no he never received the money because he went missing but without Brian the other two remaining
family members now receive a larger sum because they're splitting they're splitting that sum three ways do we know
how much I the way that I've heard it reported is that it would have been approximately between 20 to
$30,000 that Brian would have received so carrying that a step further assuming that it was an even split right um it
we're talking about you know $80 to $100,000 that they would be splitting now who knows know maybe the father was
going to receive a larger portion that's not uncommon but the the the tricky thing
with with this with the events of that day is you can really kind of look at him in a under two different lights so
one the having a steak dinner with your father planning to have your brother meet up with you afterwards after he
goes out to the funny bone with with his girlfriend or or friends or whomever calling your girlfriend leaving a very
nice voicemail hanging out with one of your quote unquote we you we'll use quotes
there because depending on who you talk to the the relationship between Clint and Brian
vares but but under this scenario though under this scenario you look at it two ways some people have suggested is that
him making an effort to have a a final goodbye with the ones that are still close to him right and then there's
other people that say well could the answer to why Brian is no longer with us be within that Circle within that
Network so you said that he went to dinner with his father and in Reynoldsburg and that was them having
sort of a come to terms moment of in regards to their relationship did they have a rocky relationship well it seems
like they had a decent relationship ship but why his mother was sick I think it came out that his father was seeing
somebody and it's not clear if his mom knew about that there's I've heard of several cases where somebody gets sick
and they become terminal and they actually push their spouse or significant other to find a companion
yeah not the most unusual thing so that's a possibility but so the speculation is that this really upset
Brian and the money that they were were getting through the mother's death was actually awarded to or not awarded but
was granted to the remaining siblings and and the father right okay so so how much would it take for a family to plan
to off well I don't know that anybody's saying that's the suspicion I think I think it needs to be on the
table or at least discuss I mean if you're investigating a case like this you have to go every nooking CR
so one thing that would stand out to me if we're like actually investigating it is his brother and girlfriend have aliis
and they plan to meet him later on and they didn't meet him later on that's that's correct right right okay so you
could have a scenario where they've hired somebody to do something to him and they knew that they weren't going to
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visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that yeah and then I think the other
step in this equation that I just think should be discussed and put on the table
that gets often left out is what two years later the father dies in a very mysterious way an incredibly
tragic bizarre accident involving a a tree branch F coming ripping being ripped off the tree in a windstorm right
right and and hitting him and killing him and so then now what is left because the family is this simple
Mother Father two sons so now you have the mom's died the one son's missing then the
father dies mysterious and now you're left with one son and so he's he in turn inherits
everything so maybe the little bit of money that he's going to get from his mother is not that much but you can B
Theo the total that that's been uh a motive in a lot of cases so thinking about Brian knowing
that he was going to get something from his mother's death even further makes me
think that he didn't run away right might as well might as well stay get some money that'll give me a little
relief it's not life changing money but it could be for him for someone that that old you know I can I can start
paying back some of my stud loans even 20 $30,000 that's a pretty significant amount of money especially for someone
that young a lot of those medical loans too will be forgiven because they'll go they can work in hospitals and certain
areas where you know parts of their loan are forgiven and if he planned to run away why didn't he why wouldn't he wait
for the money and then run away because he had money well and what a I mean what
a very nice gesture and what a very nice nod to the legacy of your mother to finish school
right yeah we we she wanted him to she you know she was very proud of of Brian but on the flip side of that um there
could be some relief um if he really didn't want to become a doctor right his mom his father wanted him to do it more
than he did his mom passes away maybe that's a burden off of his shoulders as far as school goes right the very tricky
thing and we were talking about drugs or and and substance abuse stay on this one point
real quick because so like you were saying to to meet up with your father to meet up with
your brother to meet up with a friend that you haven't seen in a while is this a sign of
reconnecting to move your life forward after your mom passed away or is this like you said a sign of
goodbye does does anybody have a feeling of it leaning towards one way or the other no I don't I don't see that as
being something a sign of a goodbye for someone that's smart if he was going to run away this successfully and not a
trace just feels like he would want to make the day he runs away be as average as any other day right and I I think the
same thing too and the speculation that he's trying to reconnect with his father some people could say well he's
trying to reconnect with his father before he leaves but it's like wouldn't it be that the mo wouldn't that be part
of the motivation for you leaving in the first place right right so to me it's it's a it it makes it become a lot more
odd that he goes missing on that day because it seems like he was trying to reconnect to me and wouldn't it make it
more difficult if you're visiting with all of the people that you care about and then you try to reconnect with your
father who you it's the relationship is becoming sort of estranged right and then you're you're connecting with these
people that care about you you care about them you're trying to get back in good graces with your father wouldn't
that just almost make it impossible for you to leave I mean you're trying to make your life better yeah well and I
think that there's very good cause for people to believe that this possibly could be the final goodbye and what what
really sets the table for one to believe that this is a perfect storm because what we have here is the known facts are
we know he's leaving for vacation on Monday morning what is the closest person to him doing his girlfriend
visiting with her family before they leave to go on this spring break trip what is Brian doing visiting with his
father wants to hang out with his brother his brother says that look we we may have drifted apart in our teenage
years in early 20s but but we got closer as mom got more sick we got even closer
after she passed his words are it was almost as if Brian was trying to get tighter with me to help me through this
tragic event that occurred in our lives so we have a situation where it may be what some perceive it to be it may be a
goodbye and some look at it as a final goodbye I think it looks so much that way because it's a temporary goodbye
because he is planning to leave he's planning to leave for a week Y and look I've I've been stressed out I'm trying
to get through school I got I mean it's not easy to be a doctor right what if he
was so I'm told what if he was planning on proposing to his girlfriend during that trip and he wanted to make sure
that things were good with him his family because there's going to be a wedding soon and he wants to make sure
that you know we have a good a good wedding and we have a good a good showing at the wedding with with the
family right and one would argue then we have evidence of him hitting on these girls but I would say look that could be
more due to the alcohol yeah I would say so yeah cuz there and there's just also
some guys and you guys would know this I mean sometimes when you're hanging out with
guys that even are in relationships the start of the evening is f fine and then after a certain point
after their fifth beer or after the six beer they're like let's go find girls and you're like uh you're married or or
you have a girlfriend like what how's this coming over you now it's almost like they couldn't handle their liquor
they're not experts like the colal some guys just like to uh flirt I think though and not take it further right and
that you know and it could have been as as simple as him giving them their number and just thinking I still got it
yes I won't answer the phone when they call me but I still got it have you guys ever heard the story of Christopher
Knight The Hermit in Maine no no so this man he was early 20s I want to say 20 or
21 he just out of the blue one day thought I can't live in this world this this type of world is not for me MH so
it's the middle of Maine and he drives his car down a down a back road and drives it as far into the woods as as he
can before he can't go any further right and then he gets out walks into the woods and he lives there for 27 years
and he he builds his little uh area in between Boulders was he stealing food from the neighboring
houses that's how he was caught he was stealing food from the from the cabins and then there was a um sort of like a
recreation uh almost like a camp that uh would get these shipments of food right
before their season would start so he knew how to break into that place and that's how he was caught after 27 years
his family provided for themselves like they lived sort of Off the Grid they were
very smart they were very smart uh with Agriculture and all of the people like you know it's the middle of Maine so
there was hardly any neighbors but anybody who knew them knew well they keep to themselves and they're nice
enough but we know that they're they want to be off the grid mhm when the when the press and law
enforcement questioned them about uh Christopher about their son they they said what you've never filed a missing
person report and they said no we just figured that he just wandered off that he just didn't want to you know he just
went away right we didn't think that he was like there was any danger and you know and then you look at Brian I keep
thinking of Christopher Knight and how no one really thought that he would just he
didn't think that he would go do it he didn't he he just got overwhelmed at that moment and was like this world's
not for me and he just wandered into the woods and that's where his world was and
he was much more comfortable in there mhm is that is that a possibility with Brian that he was just like you know
it's it's not for me and then he miraculously walks down away from the bar not around any surveillance videos
and that's that just happens to be something yeah that yeah he just locked out right there
well that's the conversation or the speculation and it's a leap and I know it's a leap but here's this guy with a
Pearl Jam tattoo okay around this time you would have known that they're working on the movie
Into The Wild okay yeah you have the book it's about Alexander Super [ __ ] that basically disappeared from his
family and went to live in Alaska and so the idea was and then Eddie veter was going to be doing the soundtrack for it
so there's a there was some speculation again it's this huge leap that you'd have to just assume that he knew that
Eddie was doing this and then he got wrapped up into this book and just went okay I'll just take a off and we we've
had we have seen this happen I I mean there was they made a movie about it you know so but to me that's a pretty big
leap but that guy was found right yeah he ate something poisonous yeah and he was found by died yeah yeah yeah but a
lot of them are not found because they die in the wilderness and then animals get to their body so in that
circumstance did Brian hitchhike somewhere he didn't take his guitar like he didn't take yeah so when they when
they to his apartment there was nothing that the family or law enforcement perceived to be missing from the
apartment or from his car strangely enough though someone broke into that apartment what was it Weeks Later four
or five weeks later right and they police said that by that time they had removed there were still items in the
apartment at that time but they had removed things of value or of interest to the
investigation and they've never caught the person or or know who it was and so a lot of people speculate well that
might have been Brian returning the thing is police have have were very quick to say one the locks were not
changed so if he still had his keys he wouldn't have had to break into his own apartment right
two they firmly believe that it was just uh an opportunist someone that that that
saw on the news read in the newspaper that this guy is missing nobody knows where he is and decided to bust in and
see if there was anything worth taking did they publicize his address I don't know that they publicized his address
but but the I they probably did would be my guess because I don't think they said
the address but I believe they said King Avenue mhm probably six blocks away on King Avenue MH but here here's the other
thing though too then you can lean on the idea of well of course if I if if I'm going to go
missing but all [ __ ] I got to go back to my apartment and get a couple things why wouldn't I break in right
because you don't want to show investigators that you still have your keys I wonder if they they fingerprinted
the door where it was broken into and maybe that's why police think that Brian is still out there somewhere alive yeah
so that's the weird and that again that's all speculation but from people that I've
talked to and I I don't want to put words into Nicholas West's mouth he was a guy
investigating this case but he has always kind of felt that law enforcement believes he's still that Brian schaer is
still alive yeah it does seem to uh to lead that way in my research as well that that police do feel that way I do
want to point out something though too I see that it can be easy for someone to go well we're going to get this lump sum
of money amongst these individuals Brian disappears 2 and 1/2 years later the father
dies I I can see how some people can say on the surface that looks a little strange and a little fishy but I think
we should point out where you could call the death of Randy schaer mysterious or not normal or
whatever whatever words you want to use we should point out that in that very same Windstorm there were five other
people there were five other fatalities so it's not like this is a a very unique
situation no I understand that I just think if you look at this case as a whole you have to put that on the table
doesn't mean that you can't eliminate that eventually I just think it has to be on the table initially the other
thing that this this has not been talked about in The public's eyes is let's look at the players of
that night so we have Brian he eats with his father now we got Brian and his father he's supposed to meet up with his
brother brother's girlfriend so that's a player in the story you have his buddy Clint and Meredith they go to the bar
with then of course you have everybody in the bar but we don't know them let's just
focus on the two girls that he talked to at the bar so we have a total of seven players roughly and one of the
things that they haven't been they haven't talked about and in the public is in Brian's program there was
other people from Brian's program at Ohio State University that were in that bar that
night and we know that that the cops talk to Clint and we know they talk to Meredith and they we don't know what the
answers that they gave but we know whether or not cops believe them to be telling the truth or not but
you have a group of other students he went to school with that were at the bar that night that he went
missing and they have never been talked about and we're going on how many years so I'd really like to know who they were
were they questioned were they cleared reading in an article that everyone who saw Brian that night was
given a lie detector test except for Clint who didn't who who refused it so that would be the two girls that he
talked to and got the phone number I would assume members of the band were given lie detector tests is that for
real like everybody that saw Brian that night I don't think the band was so in regards to when they say everyone that
that saw Brian that night they're Pro they're probably meaning everyone that had like an
interaction with ction or lengthy interaction with him the the what I was able to find was the the two ladies that
he spoke with were can they did Li detector test okay um I believe his father Randy Andi Meredith but not Clint
but not well Clint was asked his attorney and he advised him not to he had already given um he cooperating he
was cooperating but he he had already uh got got an attorney mhm well soon well and he he yeah so the attorney advised
him not to to do the lie detector which is perfectly Fair because I don't know it's not going to if if they don't
consider him a suspect at that point it's not going to you know not make him less of a suspect I guess right but and
and I want to give credit to Nicholas West for really hitting this home because he talked with the family
members because because he thought it was strange that here you have a guy Clint that is cooperating with the
police and showing up to searches and then all the sudden stops conversation with the family and basically lawyers up
and says leave me alone well coming from the uncles they were saying that during the search that
Clint was there after he's already talked to police officers that Randy Brian's father was loud and adamant and
rude towards Clint basically his feeling was that Clint knew more than he was saying but he was being so vocal about
it in a public forum that I think Clint probably went back to his parents and said this is
what happened and his parents probably said you need to lawyer up and I think that's not out of bounds right no not at
all and I don't know what I would do if I was in that circumstance and someone were to ask me to take a light detector
test because what if my heart's beating a little too fast I'm nervous and it's inconclusive it doesn't matter if it's
inconclusive people people look at inconclusive almost as they'll look at you failed but if you say no that stigma
is attached too yeah but mind you but you can never say that it failed right right but mind you that he he did
interviews with the police and still to this day you can submit questions to his
lawyer and that and they would answer some of them I guess well well and to clear something up I may have said
something that is not correct so do you want to point that out well I don't know
if it's the the article or or uh or not but um we should mention it yeah so we're not sure this article says the two
women Brian was seen talking to were identified in 2009 and claimed that they had never been asked to take the test
okay yeah we should put throw that out there just so it to be clear yeah um it's a possibility that either they were
never asked to take a test or the the test was conducted after the the you know after that article was written but
really hard to believe that uh those two women did something to Brian right but here's what we do and that might be the
reason for not asking them to submit to a lie detector test because you you have
video footage of them leaving and maybe you have people to to vouch for their whereabouts and their actions after
leaving the bar the question that speaking of leaving the bar the the big question I have is what were the
intentions of Clint Meredith and Brian after leaving the bar I mean is it as simple as we were going to drop him off
at his house drugs drugs and orgy we were all going to go back to Clint's place we were all going to meet up with
some other people what what was the on the itinerary for after the Ugly Tuna well well here's what we do know we do
know that Clint uh I believe was a TA and and he was watching one of his Professor condos that night and so we
have uh him and Meredith leaving the parking garage and then going to this condo complex where you'd have to enter
in a code well if you look at when they left the parking garage and when they entered the code and you roughly figure
out how fast they were driving and traffic and all that stuff it makes sense like they didn't stop anywhere to
get there and then they spent the night at that condo woke up in the the next day and drove Meredith back to Brian's
place to get a vehicle but what but back to the light detector yes Clint didn't take a lie detector but Meredith did and
Meredith was with Clint the whole time so you know what I mean like if did he just slip out in the bathroom and and
and kill him and then put him in his pocket and then leave and she just didn't see anything I mean I think the
fact that she took a lie to detector clears CL CLE both of them you know what and that could have been uh something
that the lawyer told them like don't like she she she's already Tak she's taken it if you guys are in the clear
don't even don't even introduce the possibility it can only hurt you well let's go back to this idea too and I I
don't know this is a lot of hearsay right but the idea is that Clint and Meredith were
at the teacher condo the next day they go back to Brian's house now their story is basically we just picked up the other
vehicle and we left and went our separate ways the story for a many years was that both of them went into Brian's
apartment and were at Brian's apartment for about six hours the next day yeah okay those are
two way different stories well we did we didn't go into his apartment we just picked up the car and we both went our
separate ways and they both met up they met met each other back up that night so
Clinton and Meredith hung out again that night but the way it's been told by Randy and some other people is no they
actually went into Brian's apartment and they were in his apartment for 6 hours or so and I think those are you know
like I said completely different stories and I think some of the problem and I don't put like blame or
anything but I think some of the problem is like Randy didn't want to admit to the public that his son was drunk that
night like very intoxicated that night and and I think he was looking to point the finger at a lot of people and I
think he was also trying to create super you know fake narratives not in a bad way just because he cared
about his son and and maybe also cared about their reputation as their family is it
possible and it's gonna sound like a joke at first is it possible that Brian knowing that it was April Fool's
Day walked away and hid somewhere to play a joke thinking that he would just be gone for a little bit and got himself
into a bad physical situation maybe he was ducking into something and I'm GNA I'm going to hide out and make it seem
you know I'll pull this sort of prank on my friends right and you know sort of like uh Alisa lamb being found in the in
the water tank well no because I've always wondered this too like you know he was just at a funeral
for his mother comes up with the idea of well who would go to my funeral you know so again it's April
fools let me go missing for 24 hours and just see what kind of buzz it gets you know I know people that have
thought about that before I've thought about that before it's really not the most far-fetched
idea especially when you're under the influence of heavy drinking I didn't even think about him
coming back from his mom's funeral and then thinking I wonder what it would be like for people to miss me I wonder what
that would feel like can we talk a little bit more about the water the uh the the river yeah in
that area how deep was that uh was the water flow would you like to pronounce that theola Tangi I would not like to
Pickerington no isn't the scota by there yes well they they intersect at some point yeah they intersect a little
further south I think yeah from where he was but uh yeah I guess so so what about
that the river that was closest to him so regarding that this was this was searched and per the family and per
someone that worked close with the family and uh Searchers and law enforcement the the the reports that
that I've seen state that the water was searched extensively to the point where I think
it's his uncle that's on record saying he's not in the water he never was in the water right and and he's saying that
I believe again I believe it's the uncle he's whoever said that it's because they were they were part of this
these searches and even recall stories of being physically in the water himself there weren't just they weren't just
eyeballing this they were down in the water actively searching and so so the Searchers say that at the time of the
searches the water was roughly 2 to 3 feet deep now of course there there is going to be Pockets that might be
slightly deeper than that and some that will be more shallow but uh the general consensus is that it was about 2 to
three feet deep at that time okay so that's enough to drown in but not necessarily enough to be concealed in
probably right how far away is Lake Erie if you were to drive there um I don't I
I don't know how science works but I don't I don't think if either of those Rivers lead there I oh no I was thinking
if someone picked him up and oh took him to Lake year two two and a half science
right um two and a half two and a half hours roughly yeah so we we also Pres Ed this case to a retired detective when we
first covered it back in 2016 and his his main thought was and it was kind of just like a knee-jerk reaction but when
we when we shot out the idea of maybe is the body of water involved he said his immediately didn't miss a beat he goes
they would have found him now and and I know that that's not 100% all the time every time but to hear a seasoned
retired detective say immed immediately boom they would have found him if he was
in water they would have found him okay and unfortunately we lived through that same scenario when Joey labut went
missing and his body surfaced or was found approximately 30 or so days after he went
missing um with it being a river most of the time things get snagged in the river
and they they catch and they stay in in one spot at some point um so it's still a possibility but it seems like it seems
like the people involved in the searches people with a long history in law enforcement all seem to believe that
it's not likely yeah what about the train tracks I'm looking here and there's a it looks like the a commuter
rail or something is a train the transit station what what that's interesting I've never thought of that trains that
run all through the area I mean it's it's a pretty straight shot to the train track from the Ugly Tuna freight trains
though travel on that well you have the tracks but there an idea that I've always kind of wondered is if they check
the Greyhound stations because there's a Greyhound station downtown so what was it possible for Brian to just jump on a
bus and go somewhere Ive always wondered if they even check those I would have to
imagine they check the surveillance video but no uh activity on his card right well and he had cash on as far as
financials go one thing that I think is interesting and I don't know why I find it to be interesting but the report from
law enforcement is that Brian paid his tab that night with cash yeah and and here I I want to do a
little speculating on that I think that there might not be such a such a proof positive way of knowing that information
I think it's more of deducing what what didn't happen to deter determin that he paid the tab with cash okay so there's a
chance that he didn't pay at all and Clint Meredith could have paid it well but here's where I want to go with that
they would have asked Clint that they would have asked Meredith that right their their statement is Brian paid the
his tab with cash so where I think they arrive to that might be more of an assumption rather than proof positive
his father is on record saying Brian never carried cash he paid with everything for a credit card or a debit
card and but that's what's so confusing with this case is you hear one thing and
then it's almost like it's always contradicted by his father and that's a strange to me well I I think part of
that is that we have a father that likely believes his son was met with Foul Play and and he wants to point out
anything that doesn't seem right to him now having worked in several bars typically what would go down is it's
very easy obviously to to trace the credit card debit card transactions so we know he didn't pay with a credit card
or debit card regardless of what anyone says now regarding paying the the tab with cash that night that's very
difficult to prove that he physically paid his tab with cash most of the time it's not going to ring up under his name
it could be he could have been listed as anything he could have been paying as he
went paying as he went which is most likely I believe if you're paying in cash you're paying as you go and
typically if there are unpaid tabs every establishment that I've worked at there's a log book and any incident goes
in the log book and an unpaid tab is an incident and you have a corresponding credit card correct um by the way I was
on the bing machine again yes and I followed the train tracks and found a freight train on the train tracks so yes
that was a that that is a train track that carries uh Freight okay so so freight trains move a little slower than
commuter trains mhm so that that is something you could actually hop on to uh and and like run faster then in a lot
of cases mhm that's an interesting take yeah I don't think anybody's ever presented
that before and if you look at the where the train tracks are in relationship to
the Ugly Tuna you could almost put his apartment right in the middle that no way it was it was that direction no way
yeah so it it makes it even closer to another known point where he may have been or was attempting to go to I want
to get to two more things before we wrap this up first of all um you know there's
only one family member left that we can talk to and that's Derek Brian's brother
but a lot of people find it odd that he is not so forward with talking with media or podcasters or whoever but I I
want you to give your thoughts on that Nick if you could I personally don't find it to be
strange in this situation it is 13 years later and I know that he's kind of always had this
stance right uh or as far back as I could trace however it seems that he is willing to
communicate but it seems more to me I believe the statement that and I maybe I'm reading too much into this but in
regards to his reaction or turning down interviews or anything like that the vibe I'm getting from Derek is not so
much that he won't communicate regarding the case his brother's missing person's
case it's more so he it's a very emotional thing for him and he wishes not to do that on camera or on
microphone or to be recorded um and it might just be it might just be a proud dude that's like you know what I if if I
talk about this too much or if I think about this too much I'm going to get choked up right maybe I don't want to
cry on camera maybe I don't want to you know cry on mic or or whatever and and he's got to can you imagine first of all
let's let's touch on this for a second he lost his mom dad and brother in the course of in the course of three years
yeah it's crazy from four to one in three years and so it's almost a domino effect when
you think about the emotions in this man is maybe it's not so much just he doesn't want to talk about his brother's
case but it also triggers his father's tragic death his mother losing her life to cancer it's it's a [ __ ] load man
it's a load you can't leave those out of the equation when you're looking into this case um but I think you know that
being said all of us here when we're looking into these cases we're not trying to be disrespectful to a victim
or the victim's family we are just simply trying to come to some kind of understanding which would then help the
victim listen yeah that that this [ __ ] freaks me out I mean you don't have to be hooked on drugs you don't have to be
from a bad neighborhood you don't have to be poor or wealthy you don't have to stand out at all you can be a Pearl Jam
fan uh uh someone who's going you know in their six year of medical school in a crowded bar in a crowded bar and in in
Ohio and and you're You're gone right that that at the very least I say this because you
said we're we're not trying to be disrespectful to the family at the very least um a message you can take from
this is just always be aware of your surroundings just try to be aware of where you're at where your friends are
at because it can literally happen to anybody anywhere at any time right and I think the another interesting thing too
which I which is the way to handle it in my opinion Derek and the schaer family have been very consistent with saying
they believe that Clint knows more or could offer more assistance and I applaud them for that
because I think he he possibly could even if it's information that he doesn't know that could be important but I I
applaud them for not accusing him of anything other than right possibly knowing something in addition to what's
been provided I would be very interested in talking with Clint or or Derek and I
think it could be done in or Meredith yeah or Meredith um okay so it was great to listen to you guys talk about this
case as you know I I view you guys as Experts of missing person cases CU of how long you have dealt with the mar
Murray case um is there one thing that sticks out with this case that you would like to go
down that rabbit hole and spin more time on that would be the first question the
second question is you have a gut feeling of what you think happened this we'll start with Tim do do you mean uh
in investigating the case or do you mean in talking the case out do do I want to
revisit something no I'm just saying like if if you investigating this case if you are us and you and we're going to
spend more time on this case is there a is there something through this conversation or through your resarch
search that you'd go I would dive down this hole a little bit more if you could well I would love to I would love to
check out the roof of the of that building but I also think the um that the train tracks the the freight train
is a pretty good is a pretty good way to have uh gotten a little further away and
just you know right I got to say this conversation has been super enlightening because a round table discussion of a
case like this is really important because you you get to hear the other people the the other person's opinion
I'm I'm with you the the train tracks I'm looking at it now that those that goes up to Canada that that goes
straight up to Canada well and like you said Tim I have never heard any talk anything about a roof in this case and
i' like I said I've talked about this case to a thousand people and nobody's ever said what about the roof I have to
imagine the police uh search that though yeah I'm I'm sure they did I would I would hate it if the police are
listening to this and they're like oh yeah they never saw the hangover so yeah but the train tracks yeah I would love
to I would love to look into that cuz could you imagine that scenario he he is walking back I didn't know that he was
walking back it's in the direction of his apartment and he's like I'll just I'll just I'll just you know I'll just
duck down right here maybe sit by the train tracks the train trugs along a couple hours later so check a schedule I
guess that if if if you can track down a schedule I I think that would be valuable
information I know that the the the family what they've said publicly would disagree with this but I where I once
believed the most likely simplest scenario was that somehow he made it out of the bar he was attacked on his way
home placed in a dumpster ended up in the landfill and they just missed it I still think that's that's likely however
I I'm telling you man two years later I'm sitting here in this chair and looking back into this this case again
I'm I'm now completely changed my viewpoint of I I now actually believe the opposite it and believe that more
than ever that that he could still be out there and he could still be alive and the captain hit on something very
interesting that we talked about quite a bit and and and I was you know pushed it
off the table discussion wise but I want to Circle back to it real quick before we finish up is the the footage of that
back hallway of people leaving now we all agreed that if they beli they had proof of Brian leaving they would have
public stated that law they being law enforcement and I still stand by that statement however I'm curious if there
are one or two or however many multiple individuals on that footage that maybe they can't identify they don't believe
them to be Brian for whatever reason but they have not been identified um I think that's somewhat of
a possibility as the captain pointed out multiple times security has mentioned there are other ways there were other
ways in and out of that building um I I think I think the the when we discuss drug use
substance abuse we discuss behaviors mental makeup all that all that stuff the the key thing here to remind
ourselves of is it it doesn't necessarily matter so much who Brian was how he was before a
month before he disappeared because his mother dying is a trigger that could have sent someone in any different
direction lifestyle-wise and choices wise absolutely yeah and I've had friends that were the most talkative
person you ever met and a parent passed away and they just became quiet but I'd really love
to if I could like in a perfect world sit down Clint and talk with him or sit down Derek and talk with them and not
and not even record it just be on the phone and and ask some questions and you know if if either one of them hear this
and you know would like to even grab a beer you know just to go you drink beer how's your hangover so uh anyways uh we
should be getting out of here because you guys got to get back to the airport so you can get back to Boston back to
wormtown well and I do want to go on record saying this too this is one of few cases that we've circled back to
that we've looked into for a second or third time we've talked about it on our other show off the Record several times
we very likely will Circle back to this one again and again and again and I want
to be very vocal with with these words saying that we want to help in any way shape or form if the Sha schaer family
or friends of Brian need anything think we can offer anything our information is
is on true Crim garage.com we want to help in any shape or form the other thing that I want to help with is
directing um a lot of the people that tuned in and joined us in the garage today to our very good friends that took
time out of their very busy lives to join us in the garage Tim and Lance tell us briefly again about the podcast about
the your projects and where to find you great thank you yeah uh check us out at crawl space- media.com that's kind of
the main landing spot for everything we do we host the missing Mora Murray podcast you can find that on Stitcher on
Apple podcasts um we actually also have a sort of a revisiting of the Mora Murray case that we are doing up for
Stitcher premium and we're calling that creators commentary so it's actually us talking over the old episodes and
updating uh with new information and making fun of our a fair share of self effacing it's a really cool project that
uh Stitcher uh allowed us to do um and we're having a blast putting it together where're delivering the episodes in
batches of 10 so we'll do these Marathon sessions where we listen to ourselves from you know three years ago two years
ago and we talk over it one like Tim said we update information so it's super informative I mean if we said something
and since the factors or the circumstance circumstances have changed then we we update that so if you're
looking for new updated case information you get the parallel right there it's it's a really really cool project really
fortunate to be a part of it yeah and uh and crawl space is also available on Stitcher Apple podcast and everywhere we
uh have the full archive uh on Stitcher premium and check out finding morea Murray on Amazon Prime I can speak for
the colonel when I say uh the captain the colonel we had a lot of fun having you come visit us and drink with us and
um I'm sure Nick will be paying for it for the next couple days well and we will see you guys at crime con can't
wait yep and thanks everybody for joining us this weekend in the garage we will see you back here in the garage
next week until then be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter the Angie's List you know and trust is
now Angie and we're so much more than just a list we still connect you with top local pros and show you ratings and
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Brian Shaffer /// Part 2 /// 291

Part 2 of 2

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This week we are joined in the Garage with long time friends of the show and missing persons experts Tim and Lance from the Missing Maura Murray and Crawlspace podcasts. Join us for some cold ones and an in-depth round table discussion regarding the disappearance of Brian Shaffer. Was Brian met with foul play or is Brian living out his days in Parts Unknown? Beer of the Week - Seventh Son American Strong Ale Garage Grade - 4 and 3/4 bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

The episode examines Brian Schaefer's disappearance, theories of foul play, and the emotional context of his last night out.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Join hosts Nick and Captain as they dive into true crime discussions.
Theories on Brian's Disappearance. Exploring theories about Brian's last moments and potential foul play.
The Mysterious Dinner. Brian's dinner with his father raises questions about their relationship and his disappearance.
The Family Tragedy. A series of family deaths leaves one son behind, raising suspicions about motives.
Speculation on Brian's Fate. Discussion on whether Brian's actions indicate he planned to disappear.
The Intriguing Break-In. A break-in at Brian's apartment adds mystery to his disappearance.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Nothing good happens after 2 a.m.!

Discussion about late-night safety

4:34WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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