Bloodlines | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

Criminal is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX. And before we start, the episode you're about to hear contains
descriptions of violence, so please use discretion. >> Um, they need to call her and uh, Bonnie and
Clyde because she would love to hang with me. For what reason? I don't know. Because of the public. Every time I went
to a liquor house, look house, you you hear the juice and stuff like that. We would go there and where I would take
pistols with me and she would want to take one too and she would take it and we get drunk together and we was real
tight. >> Julius Robinson is describing his sister Carolyn Hemingway. They grew up very
close in age and were always getting into trouble. Now in their 60s, Carolyn was raising several of her grandchildren
in an apartment complex in Durham, North Carolina. >> And Trayvon, her grandson,
he lived with her. He raised him from a little bit of little baby and and um he come over here, he'll talk to him every
time he do something bad, she would call me and I would call him over here and take him in the back room and put him
around the round table and talk to him about what's the right thing to do. >> 17-year-old Trayvon Evans had dropped
out of school and was constantly in trouble with the law. He fought with his grandmother all the time, and it was
just getting to be more than she could handle, especially since she was also caring for Trayvon's 4-year-old brother
and baby sister. Eventually, things in the house got so bad that Carolyn told her grandson to pack his things and move
out of her apartment. >> Thanks for joining us. We are following a developing story out of Durham. A
woman is dead, her four-year-old grandson recovering after a stabbing. >> Police say it all started with an
argument. 17-year-old Trayvon Evans has been taken to jail, photographed, and booked.
>> He is accused of a violent act against his family, and a 911 call reveals that
he may have tried to cover up what police say he did. The autopsy found 26 stab wounds on
Carolyn Hemingway's body, on her neck, chest, and abdomen. There appeared to be defensive wounds on her arms. She was
declared dead at the scene. Trayvon's 4-year-old brother had also been stabbed and was rushed to the hospital. He
survived. The baby was in the apartment. She was unharmed. Trayvon Evans was charged with murdering his grandmother
and the attempted murder of his little brother. He's currently awaiting trial in jail with no bond.
Julius remembers the day he found out his sister had been killed. He was home when Trayvon's stepfather came over with
the news. >> And he kneel down right there and put his head on the end of the chair and
start crying. And I looked at my niece. I said, "Where in the world going on?" And he looked back up. He said, "She's
dead, pumpkin." I said, "Dead?" I said, "You mean my sister Carolyn?" He said, "Yeah, man. She did." I said, "Come on,
man. Stop lying." I said, "Don't be talking about that." And immediate right then, I said, "Wow,
who did it?" Because I'm going to get whoever did that. I'm going to get him. >> This wasn't just his grief talking.
Julius was serious. He'd hurt people before. He says that in his family, he was the guy you called when you needed
something fixed. One way he put it was that he tried to stick up for the underdog. And that, not surprisingly,
had gotten him in a lot of trouble with the law. He'd gotten comfortable using violence to get revenge a long time ago,
back when he was a teenager. Back when he was the exact same age as his nephew, Trayvon, 17. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is
Criminal. In 1970, Julius Robinson was engaged. His fiance was six months pregnant with
their son and he was working in the O at Duke University Hospital. >> And I did that for 2 years and I loved
it. And we went to a party one night dance party that the community was giving and um the senior citizen gave
that dance and I went there and I let some friends of mine in that worked at Duke Hospital. uh five guys um
they brought in brown badge which was alcohol and um they got kind of like intoxicated and um I drunk some of
theirs too and um they got kind of like too excited and got um very violent into
the dance and the um senior citizen asked me to action them out that they couldn't be there anymore because they
were serving the peace and I actioned them out and They got mad with me and my uh fiance and they jumped on me and her
and she was 6 months pregnant. >> His fiance was rushed to the hospital and Julius went home. He says he didn't
know how beaten up he actually was until he got home and looked at himself in the
mirror. He called the hospital to check on his fiance. She was fine. The baby had died.
He packed two rifles, a 22 and a 3030 Winchester, and walked back to the senior center.
>> So when I seen them down there, I took my rifle down there with me and the um
330 Winchester and I shot one guy six times and um he died and um shot the other guy one time in the neck and shot
well actually shot all five of them, but then one of them died. Did you know walking
back down there was the thought, I don't care what happens to me, I'm going to kill him?
>> When I went there, I say, well, Lord, I don't know what going to happen, but I'm
going to do what they did to her and my son and me. And uh my intention was not to kill anybody, but my intention was to
hurt them as well as they had hurt. I guess for me, for someone who who hasn't shot
a gun before, shooting the the man who died six times, was it something like you you took that
first shot and you just couldn't stop? >> Um, yes. When I shot the first shot, it
felt like I could not stop and because I kept shooting until the bullets ran out
of that gun. And then I went to the telegram post and got the other gun and ran the other four guys down and shot
them as well. And I didn't run out of bullets on the second gun. And my brother came up to me and grabbed me and
my nickname is pumpkin. And he said, "Punkin, pumpkin, you can kill one guy and it's enough." So I remember um
taking the gun, hitting him in the chin with it and he fall down on the ground and I point at my brother and said,
"This is a war." And said, "If you don't get out the way at a time like this, I kill you, too." Then all of a sudden, I
took the gun from point at him and shot the rest of the bullets up in the air. Then I got both guns and went back home
and my friends destroyed both of the guns. Were you scared that they would come and get you ever?
>> Um, I wouldn't say I was scared, but I felt that some they would try to hurt me
when they see me. >> And you understood why? >> Yeah, I understood why. And I always
would say, well, they get me before I get them, then that's the way it is. The man he killed was named Rabbit
Straoud. Julius managed to escape not only the scene of the crime, but the entire state of North Carolina. He fled
5 hours north to Baltimore to hide out at his brother's house. So, when you get to your brother's house, is the idea
that you're going to hide out, that you're going to go on the run? >> Yeah. The idea was that no, I don't want
to go to prison. and my brother. He said, "Well, as long as you're a brother of mine, I'll hide you out as long as
you want." He said, "But the police going to be looking for you for the rest of your life." He said, "But stay here a
while and think about it." And I stared up in the attic for like 2 weeks. >> Were Were you really just up there in
that attic hiding? >> Yes. um and his four daughters, which there was some most beautiful kids that
ever uh ever had a chance to really talk to and get to know my four nieces. And um they would bring the food upstairs or
would never come down. They had a bathroom up there as well. >> At the end of two weeks, Julius gave up
and turned himself in. He knew that eventually he'd be caught either by the police or by friends of the man he'd
killed, Rabbit Stout. He was found guilty and sentenced to 30 years in prison. >> Um, and did you experience any violence
in prison? I mean, when you were young, when you got in, you had people I assume
knew that you were in there for killing a man. Did you have to get strong or be tough
to protect yourself? >> I I really did. I learned more more violence and more crime in prison than I
did outside Scoo. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Shalom. >> We talked with Julius at the kitchen
table in his apartment, which he shares with a black and white pitbull named Shalom, who let us know she didn't like
being left out of the conversation. Um, but I did meet a lot of homosexual that would work for me and stuff like
that because they wanted protection and stuff like that. >> That that would work for you. You would
you would be running them? >> Yeah. Yeah, I would run them. I would tell them to do certain things and I
would make sure they didn't get jumped on or didn't get beaten and didn't get take advantage of.
>> So, you learned the system. >> I I definitely did. I learned the system so well. I end up catching two more
years in prison. >> As the years passed, his family came to visit less and less and stopped sending
money. Why did they stop coming to visit you? >> I guess it got old and I think they just
said, "Well, we just don't want to I felt that they didn't want to deal with me anymore and
that they didn't love me anymore because that was exactly what it felt like." And
the people inside the prison became my family. When he was released from prison in the
early 90s, Julius was more violent than ever. >> He was mean. I I have to say he was he
was mean. >> This is his sister, Doris Simmons. >> He had a very quick temper. I think um I'm trying to think of how I
can Nobody. He was what you would have called the black sheep in the family if you've ever heard that term.
>> Yes. That's how everybody regarded him. Nobody trusted him with anything. >> Julius admits he wasn't in good shape.
He had a bunch of DWI and was arrested for assault. He was a guy you called if you needed someone beat up. But he
thinks some of what he did, while maybe violent, was for good reason. >> My sisters was married, you know, five
of them, and all five of them had got married and they were husbands was abused to them. And every time they
would beat them, I would go beat them and then let my sister beat them back if they wanted to. And they would do it.
And and I always did that. And they always call me for that reason. Every time something like that would happen,
and they would call me, even my brothers as well, they would call me about their
um wives going out with another guy. And they want me to go take care of their wives boyfriend and stuff like that.
One night in 2011, Julius bought a bottle of Johnny Walker Red, drank the whole thing, and tried to end his life
by walking into traffic. He was arrested and eventually sent to a halfway house.
And now he's living independently. He quit drinking, and he's very religious now. But as he said earlier, when he
learned that someone had brutally murdered his sister and stabbed a 4-year-old, he felt stirrings of his old
self again. If she got to die like that by being murdered in her sleep, well then that
person need to be got somehow. Not necessarily killed, but got a lesson. >> So when he heard it was Trayvon who had
been arrested and charged with this crime, he didn't know what to do. It made absolutely no sense.
>> You know, he want the one I was going to go try to kill, which was my nephew. It
had to be somebody else because I knew him. He listened to me like you and I talking now. He he he listened to me
before he's listening to any other my brothers or his mom. So this is out of my mind that he did it. So I'm looking
for other solutions. So I want to know I go and out there where she got killed murder at and talk to all the public out
there to find out who really did it. And it led right back to him. Not only did Julius feel like he should,
as he says, "Go get the killer," but he also felt like members of his family expected him to do something to get
revenge. Even though Trayvon was locked up in jail, because that's what Julius had always done. How would you even do
that? >> I mean, do you know how you would do that? If you were a different person, do
you even know how you would do that? If I was a different person to most definite, I wouldn't.
>> You would know how to do because I I wouldn't know how to do that. But you would know.
>> But I would Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah, I most definitely would know how to do that. >> So, the rest of your family thinks that
you have the capability to kill again? >> Yes, indeed. They they really do. And they don't believe
that I have really turned a new leaf or a new 360° around. No, they don't believe that 100% at all.
Because I tell you why they don't believe it. Because on through the years, I would try to get right and and
straight my life up and bam, soon as something happened, I'm back there. And it happened so many times where they
said, "Oh, no. He he he's going to come. We going to give him y'all get so long."
But now I think this is a this is a turning point for them that they know that I'm real real because now um here's
I guess picked up my four year sobriety chip like month two months ago and um they never seen me stay straight and
sober and and focusing on persevering the right thing for the right reason in their life. It's only been like 6 months
or two, 9 months. >> For the first time in his life, Julius didn't go for revenge. In fact, he did
the opposite. He went and visited and talked with Trayvon. He goes all the time. He knows what it's like to be
locked up at 17. He doesn't want Trayvon to feel abandoned like he did. How can you even look at him?
>> Wow, man. That was hurting. Um, wow. Okay. When I uh first went there, I really had to pray. I really had to pray
before I even went there. And then even when I went there, I wanted to jump through the glass. I really did. I
wanted to jump through the glass because the first thing I saw was smile. He never say, "Punkin, I'm so sorry. I
miss my mommy. I I missed her. I wish I never done this. Can you forgive me? Or can anybody forgive me?" It's always
game play of man I need some money man I'm doing this man they get the gang ignorant talk where young guys do that
like he haven't done nothing in the world >> because he goes to see Trayvon in jail
and brings him money Julius has offended some members of his family some aren't speaking to him because he's sober now
and goes to church others make fun of him >> they said well mom you must man wow you
must be gay Hey, as you turn, I mean, dag, you sugar, you sweet. And that does hurt me when they say that because that
kind of life that I were living, that kind of life that I was in, it is one of the most cruel, ugliest
um most um difficult way to live that anybody can live. One person who stood by him is a sister
Doris who says that their relationship is now stronger than ever. But Julius Robinson is in this kind of impossible
spot. He talked to us about it so much. One might think that cleaning up your act would solve most of your problems.
That's why people do it. So, it's a strange thing if you change your life and not everyone likes the new you.
>> Will you go see Trayvon again soon? Mind if I get saw him Friday? >> You you are seeing or you just saw him?
>> I just saw him last this past Friday and took him some money. Took him $30. Uh
the 12th was his birthday. >> Um how is he ch has he changed at all in prison? >> No. I I was upset again. It seemed like
every time I go get him, my spirit falls, but it don't go away. You know, my spirit just falls now. and
I shakes my head every time I go see him. But the Ventioner, I know for a fact that it's going to come a time in
his life if he don't get killed that he's going he's he's going to be sorry. Trayvon Evans trial date hasn't been
scheduled yet. Julius says he'll be there. He plans to testify as a character witness on his nephew's
behalf. Criminal is produced by Lauren Sporer and me. Eric Menel helped with sound.
Julianne Alexander does our episode art. Special thanks to Carol Jackson. Some of
the music in this episode is by Elephant Micah. and we're excited to announce that they'll be joining us in Brooklyn
for our live show on July 15th. Learn more at thisiscriminal.com. If you're interested in supporting us
and other shows like ours, email sponsor at prx.org. Check out all the other Radiotopia shows
at radiotopia.fm. Great shows like Radio Diaries. In their latest episode, they gave tape recorders
to a juvenile court judge and to a 16-year-old repeat offender to get the same story from two different sides of
the bench. You understand? I'll make a promise to you right now that if you come back before me and you're
adjudicated on any offense, you'll spend 18 months. I'm going to give you one chance in life. You understand? This is
your last chance. Any questions? Release. Take the handcuffs off. >> That's Radio Diaries. Go listen.
Radiotopia from PRX is made possible with support from the Knight Foundation and Mailchimp. Celebrating creativity,
chaos, and teamwork. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal >> radiotopia >> from PRX.

Julius Robinson had killed for revenge before, and so when his sister was brutally murdered in her sleep last year, he says he planned to “get” the killer. He felt like his family expected him to get revenge, because that’s what he’d always done, both in and out of prison. But when his 17-year-old nephew was charged with the crime, Robinson struggled against his family’s expectations and his own.

Thanks to Elephant Micah for allowing us to use their music (http://www.elephantmicah.com/).

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode 21 originally published June 5, 2015. https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-21-bloodlines-6-5-2015/

Brief Summary

Julius Robinson confronts his violent past while dealing with the murder of his sister by his nephew Trayvon Evans.

Key points

A Family's Tragedy. Julius Robinson learns of his sister's brutal murder at the hands of his nephew, Trayvon.
The Cycle of Violence. Julius recalls his own violent past and the impact it had on his family.
Seeking Revenge. Julius grapples with the urge for revenge against Trayvon after his sister's death.
A New Path. Julius chooses to visit Trayvon in jail instead of seeking revenge, marking a turning point.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Wow, who did it?

Julius reacts to the news of his sister's death.

3:08WatchJul 15, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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