Asenath Dukat /// Part 2 /// Episode: 584 | Forensic Files

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>> With a Cseneth [music] Ducat missing and then found dead and murdered, we have a lot of eyewitnesses,
[music] we have a composite sketch. We're going to have all hands on deck with this case to get answers for this
murdered 8-year-old. There are many eyewitnesses, so there are many suspects, but we're going to go over
the most likely suspects here today. And you nailed it, Captain. This is a situation where we have everybody that's
coming out of the woodwork wanting to help, wanting to assist, wanting to find justice for this little girl and for
the girl's family. And the thing is we've said this a dozen times on this show and it rings true. It rings true
when you review these cases, no matter what year that they are from. When somebody kills a child, abducts a child
and kills them, it is not just a crime against that victim, the victim's family, it is ultimately a crime against
an entire community. And that's exactly what you see here, people that just want
to try to help in any shape or form that they can, small or large. So, we're going to have a lot of eyewitnesses.
We're going to have a lot of people come forward with some suspicions. And as you
know, Captain, when they release a composite sketch to the public, that's going to drum up even more tips and more
theories that will come about. We're going to see hundreds of people interviewed. We're going to see dozens
of people be rumored to be suspects. But at the end of the day, there's only a couple of good suspects. And we will
start with the ones of note, the more prominent ones, the ones that were mentioned in the newspapers, and we'll
work our way from the outside in, let's say. So, a name that will be familiar to
a lot of our long-time listeners is Robert Buell. Robert Buell was a child killer. He was a rapist. He was a
torturer. He was a horrible, despicable individual. Now, he's arrested in 1983. So, he's out and he's up to no good
during the time frame that Acina Ducat is killed in 1980. Kelly Anne Prosser is another name that our long-time
listeners might recognize. Kelly Anne Prosser was another 8-year-old girl who was abducted and killed 2 years later
after Acina Ducat. That case remained unsolved for a long time. That case is interesting to
Acina's case because it took place 2 years after, but just a short distance away.
Acina Ducat was killed in Upper Arlington, Ohio, and Kelly Anne Prosser was abducted from
her neighborhood, which was near the OSU campus in Columbus, Ohio. So, for a long time,
there were people that thought maybe these two cases could be connected because Acina's is still unsolved to
this day, and Kelly Anne Prosser's case took a long time to solve. And in fact, Robert
Buell was highly suspected in Kelly Anne Prosser's case. In fact, so much so that they he was considered
by many to be the prime suspect. Now, we told you in our episodes, which we titled When the Demons Came Out, it was
a four-part series that we did in January of 2021. Episodes 459 through 462. We cover Kelly Ann Prosser's case as
well as the cases against Robert Buell. Robert Buell didn't have anything to do with Kelly Ann Prosser. And in fact,
Columbus PD and the individuals investigating Robert Buell and his crimes said that they could find no
connection, nothing linking Robert Buell to Columbus, Ohio for 1982 or 1980 when
Kelly Ann and Asenath were killed. We now know all of these years later that it was in fact Harold Warren Jr. who
killed Kelly Ann Prosser. And that was announced in June of 2020. Again, if you want more information on those cases, go
back and listen to when the demons came out. This was the first person that was known to have killed somebody
and be mentioned in the paper and be We're being told, the public, this guy's being looked at in this case and this
other case. He's now being looked at in Columbus cases after they apprehend him in 1983.
Of course, we know that they move on from Robert Buell in these two cases. They can't move on from him in other
cases that took place in Northeast Ohio though cuz he was too busy up there to be down
here. If you check out that four-part series, you're going to find out that this guy is a absolute monster. And
anytime that you have a similar type of victim, he's going to be brought up, especially if the crime happened early
'80s in Ohio. Yes, instead of looking at somebody so far away, let's look at somebody closer to the crime scene,
closer to where all of this went down. And we're going to use that based off of a
profile that is put together of Asenath's killer. Now, this is directly from a website called
longwalkhomeua.com. And I recommend that you go there and check out what they've done on Acenas'
case because we are only going to be able to cover a fraction of what they cover on their website. They've been
looking at this case for a very long time, putting together very good work on this case. And rather than reinvent the
wheel here, I will read a portion of their website now. This is under chapter four titled a brutal rapist and killer
in Upper Arlington. And it says, "Almost immediately the UAPD believed Acenas' killer was local to Upper Arlington.
He, the killer, is very familiar with the area. If he's not a local, he lives very close
to the area. This is based off of statements given by the Upper Arlington police chief in June of 1980 to the
newspaper." Just think about how eerily similar that sounds to the words from Doug Carter in the Delphi case. This
belief was bolstered by two psychological profiles the police received in July of 1980. The profiles
described a young man 17 to 19 years old who lives within 2 miles of the scene of
the slaying. This is based off of a retired New York City homicide detective who prepared one
of these profiles. The thing here is additionally, Captain, it did not take long for the Upper
Arlington Police Department to believe that Acenas' murder was the same man who attacked the 9-year-old girl on May 7th,
1980, that other attack that we've referenced a couple of times. And police and the media noted the following
similarities between the two crimes. Acenath Ducat was an 8-year-old girl with brown hair. The victim in the May
7th attack was a 9-year-old girl with brown hair. Both crimes happened at similar times of the day when both girls
were walking home from school. The crimes occurred just slightly more than 2 miles from each other. According to
one account, both crimes occurred within a half mile of Route 33 in forested areas. Similarly, another account stated
both crimes happened in large open areas sheltered from view and less than a half
block from Route 33. Route 33 is also that Riverside Drive. Both girls were choked or strangled. A red 10-speed
bicycle was seen in the vicinity of both crimes. Both girls were near their homes
when the crimes occurred. Police believe both girls were attacked near the street
and then moved to a location several hundred feet away. Both attacks were sexually motivated. An
unsuccessful attempt was made to assault the May 7th victim, and Asenath was raped.
The description and sketch of Asenath Dukat's murder was similar to the sketch from the May 7th attack. Because of
these similarities, the chief of police said the best suspect police have in Asenath's slaying
is an unknown man who is also being sought for the assault May 7th of a 10-year-old girl who was attacked when
she returned home from Tremont Elementary School. >> This murder is going to disrupt the
local landscape, and we're going to get other departments involved. One of them being the FBI, and
we're going to be able to get a profile of who they think the killer is. >> Yeah, there's several done over the
years. We have the FBI with probably the most definitive profile, which is received by Upper Arlington police in
1990. According to this profile, Asenath's killer was a loner in his early 20s with few
friends, was from a family with a strict, abusive father and protective mother, had one or more sisters who were more
successful and received more recognition from their parents. Failed in school or work because he was
not accepted by fellow students and employees. May have sought treatment for depression. Has attacked others but not
necessarily killed them. Is physically strong and tends to choke or hit his victims. What makes the most sense to me
and I don't know if you agree with this Colonel, but to put together both of these profiles. So we look for some of
these characteristics in this individual, but also local law enforcement believes this person is
local within 2 miles of the murder scene. >> Yeah, and I'm going to go just beyond
that 2 miles there, but keep in mind we also have if in fact the Aciena's killer
and the attacker from the May 7th attack are one in the same, then we actually have crime scenes that are a couple
miles apart anyway. So that we have to create a radius around both of those crime scenes, which will
balloon us out a little bit further than just that straight-up 2-mile radius from
Aciena's murder scene. What we have here, what we just reviewed is to me, you know, we've been told this
by John Douglas. When you go into profile a killer, really the best way to do that is you
have to profile everything. You have to profile the killer, you profile the victim, you profile the area and the
situation. Well, here when I review those profiles, I'm seeing two different things.
One where we have somebody profiling the actual crimes. The the crimes that took place and
coming up with an assessment and a hypothesis based off of what they see from the known facts of those crimes.
The other what we have is a psychological makeup of what our killer is or who our killer is and his
background. And so we want to look for somebody that fits that psychological profile, but
also fits the physical proximity profile that was put together in the other cases. So, to do that, unfortunately, we
have to bring up a disgusting individual that we've never I don't believe we talked about him before on this show.
Yeah, I don't want to keep making fun of Bob Ruff publicly. And that would be child killer David Elliott Penton.
Now, David Elliott Penton is a serial child killer. And unfortunately, his address at the time when Asenath
Dukat was killed was roughly 4 to 5 mi from the crime scene. Now, this individual, if in fact he did
kill Asenath, it likely would be his first murder because his murders all took place
later. Now, the thing that scares the hell out of me about the date of the attack on Asenath
is around this same time, David Elliott Penton, who was in the military, was shipped off to
Korea. Well, why does that scare me? It scares me for two reasons. One, it could take him completely out of the
area and he's not here. He did not have the physical ability to be here to commit the crime. So, then he's not a
suspect. The flip side of that coin is a very dangerous sick individual knew he was going away to a place far away for a
long period of time and likely fantasized about these types of crimes for a long period of his life before he
started committing them and may have seen an opportunity to, "Hey, I can act on some of these fantasies, and guess
what? Within days, I'm out of dodge, baby. I'm on the other side of the planet." Now, I could not confirm the
exact date of when he was transferred overseas. That would be very important. Now, his physical makeup, his
psychological makeup, I should say, does fit with the psychological profile of a
scene of Ducat's killer. Penton was a loner. Penton did live in a situation where his
sister was more successful than he was. In fact, he was held back a grade and decided, "I'm going to drop out of high
school because it would be embarrassing if I'm in the same grade as my younger sister."
He was raised by a mother and a stepfather. And again, they were just very close to this area.
But unfortunately, we can't pinpoint exactly when he was transferred. His crimes
are almost identical to one another, his future crimes. He would abduct a child in his vehicle, take them to another
location where they would be killed. So, if I'm picking up what you're putting down, what you're saying is if he is
responsible for this murder, for Ducat's murder, this would actually be his first
murder based on his known criminal activity. That's correct. The thing is, I believe that this method
that he used he used it time and time again, and probably every single time. And a large
portion of that statement is true based off of his known criminal activity. We know it to be
fact. Where I have a problem with him being a suspect is I see some movements of the real
suspect, of of of what I think the suspect and who I think the suspect is. And the movements of the victim
don't really ring true with David Penton's other crimes and murders. Because I've said this here before,
Captain, and I'll say it again. I have never seen a sexually motivated child abduction and
murder where the perpetrator comes into an area, removes the victim, and kills them or brings them back and
then kills them and leaves them in the same area where they're abducted from. We can go based off of witness
statements and the scent dog that traced her movements that day, that she was roughly
killed in very close proximity to where the abduction took place. Right. It wouldn't make any sense
for David Penton to come into this area, abduct her, and then bring her right back.
He would have taken her elsewhere and dumped her in an area where there was nobody out there, where he couldn't
be seen, his vehicle couldn't be identified. Well, this location where she's found, it it's very strange
anyways because it it's very close to a major road when just a block away, if this person was
local and and knew the area well, lived within 2 miles, within a couple blocks is a little bit
of a wooded area. You'd think you'd think if they're going to leave her body somewhere, maybe that's where
they would leave it. >> Yeah, again, it doesn't make any sense to me for anyone, including David
Elliott Penton, to have a vehicle and be able to abduct someone and then take them with him
only to return them later. It just it just doesn't ring true. That's not typically how these crimes are
committed. Now, I know I said the same statement in our Lynn Harper episodes and someone said, "Well,
what about the Lindbergh baby?" Well, that's not a sexually motivated abduction. That was a money motivated
abduction, where the killers were idiots and dropped the baby off of the ladder.
So, it's not anywhere in the same neighborhood of the same type of crime. David Elliott Penton's
crimes are in the same neighborhood, but he is not from the same neighborhood and
would never have returned a victim back to the neighborhood in which he took the
victim. So, I think we have to look at some individuals that A are closer in proximity to
Jacina Ducat and the crime scene. And also individuals or an individual that may have not had the same means,
may not have had a vehicle to transport the victim. And that is why she is found so close to
where the abduction took place. >> [music] [music] >> All right, we're back. Clap at the base. Cheers, Captain. You
guys want to do me a solid, do me a big solid, go to Spotify and look up our show True Crime Garage. You can listen
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Go to the artist page and click follow. That would be lovely. And smoochy. Smoochy. You can jam the garage music at
the gym or in your car. How about that? All right, back to the case here, Captain. We're going to move rather
quickly cuz we got a lot of ground to cover here in the second half of today's show. And that is because we're going to
get into some very good suspects. Now, why are they very good suspects? Because they fit some of the physical evidence
that we know to be in this murder case. Now, the first individual, his name is Brett Strutner. And I've heard it
pronounced Strutner or Strootner. I say potato, you say potato. For the For the sake of argument, let's
continue with Strutner. I say potato. So, Brett Strutner, he gets onto police radar because of a tip, actually a
couple tips that come in that say, "Hey, you might want to look at this guy. He's
been behaving very strange since the murder took place." Now, interestingly enough, at the time of the murder, he
lives about a mile and a half from the corner of Waltham and Hillside. So, he's very close in proximity. He fits the
proximity of the first profile and he fits the profile, the the psychological profile that we see as well. And this is
how he gets onto the radar of police. The night of the murder, Brett is at a bar with some of his friends. This bar
is near the Ohio State University campus. And at the bar, he's seen crying or weeping. And he told other people at the
bar that he was afraid to go back to his apartment, that he could not go home because they are after me.
And when he is finally returned to his home via a friend's vehicle, he says he does not want to enter his
apartment because, again, they are after me. So, we have an anonymous phone call
that makes its way to the Upper Arlington Police Department that is telling them about this suspect's
behavior on that night. Why is this guy acting so weird, so strange, so paranoid
the night after a murder takes place in the area. Keep in mind this is a safe area where they don't have they don't
commonly have murders taking place. Like you said he lives within the vicinity of
what the profile says that this killer possibly could live in. Once this guy's on the radar, we have
eyewitnesses coming forward saying he could have been there as early as 2:00 p.m. Yeah, in the direct area of the
crime scene. And keep in mind here when we talk about crime scene, there are multiple crime scenes in an abduction
and murder case, right? So we have the crime scene of where the abduction took place. We know that there was some type
of sexual assault in this case. So we have a location, another crime scene, where that assault took place. And then
later we have the scene of where the body is located. So we have multiple crime scenes that we're dealing with,
but we also have witnesses that are saying this guy could have been as close as the corner in which I believe that
she was later abducted on the same day that she was abducted. So now we got this guy who's behaving
oddly, and we can put him in the area with some different witnesses, but we also learn another interesting fact
about this individual. He owns a red 10-speed bicycle, and it's reported that at some point in the
summer of 1980 he decides to quit riding it. He doesn't want to ride it anymore according to some of his friends'
statements that are later given to police. Which is similar to the idea that a killer will change their
appearance. Maybe they shave their beard, maybe they grow a beard. Maybe or if a vehicle is involved in a crime,
hey, they stop driving that vehicle, they sell it, they get a new one. They get a paint job is pretty common as
well. Right. Our suspect, Brett Streutker, on June 5th, 1980, so this is 2 days after the homicide,
he is out with some friends and he's again dropping these strange lines of are the cops coming after me? If these
cops don't quit harassing me, I'm going to kill them. And then he goes home to his home, his
parents' home, actually, that same night and he takes his parents' vehicle and then he flees the area driving north
toward Cleveland. The following morning at 7:45 a.m. police find him stranded on
the side of the road in this vehicle in Willoughby, Ohio. >> He is losing his mind. He is telling
people, hey, people are after me. He takes his parents' car, he heads north to Willoughby. That's a good 2 and
1/2 hours away. If that's not suspicious, I don't know what is. When we reviewed Ed Kemper and
when we reviewed BTK, both of them said the same thing about their early murders. That when they first committed
them, they thought just within minutes the police would be on their way. That they would hear sirens, that everybody
knew exactly what they did, who was guilty, and that they were going to be on their way to lock them up as quickly
as possible. And in both cases, we know that didn't happen. In fact, Ed Kemper called the police after he killed his
grandparents. This behavior is not unlike that, where this guy was involved in something and
he's saying to everybody that's willing to listen, I think the cops are after me. I think the police are harassing me.
They are going to get me. I can't go back to my house." Flees the area to get out of dodge.
When the police find him, and I'll read from the description of what went down here
in Willoughby, Ohio, because you can't make this stuff up. The truth is stranger than fiction, my friends.
So, the report from the Long Walk Home reads as follows: On the morning of June 6th at approximately 7:40 a.m., police
received a call from a nearby Sunoco station that a car was in a ditch on the Saint Clair exit between Lost Nation and
Erie Road. Upon arrival, the first patrolman discovered a 1979 Cadillac in a ditch with Brett Sutnar
lying across the front seat. After he wakes up the subject, I guess this is from knocking on the window,
he then asked Brett to open up the door or the window to the vehicle. Brett would not open either. In fact, he
tries to flee again. He's trying to start the vehicle so he can get out of this location, get away from this police
officer. At this time, the police officer's vehicle was in a position that would block any type of escape from
Brett as he's in the vehicle. Now, we have the patrolman who's trying to get the
vehicle unlocked so he can get to Brett, the driver. At this time, the suspect produced a hypo syringe
or hypodermic needle, I guess, and took out his testicles and began stabbing the
syringe into them. Sounds like a delightful afternoon. At this time, we have another patrolman who's trying to
break the window of the vehicle with his nightstick, and he eventually is successful.
Now, we have our suspect Brett who begins screaming and fighting with the officers.
It takes about four officers to bring this guy in, right? They spray him with mace that has no effect at all.
Eventually, after a real brouhaha, they're on the side of the road, they eventually apprehend Brett Shotner and
they take him into their custody and they're going to have a whole list of charges to hit this guy with, right?
He's assaulted basically all four of these police officers and he's also in possession of
this hypodermic needle. There's all kinds of things going on here. And he assaulted his testicles. Now, what we
have happen is the Upper Arlington Police Department they're going to send two of their
detectives up to interview Brett Shotner who is sitting at the Lake County Sheriff's Office. He's probably
not sitting too comfortably. >> This, mind you, is after a statement from one of the correction officers at the
jail that says that he overheard Shotner say, quote, I killed an 8-year-old girl.
So, we have the Upper Arlington Police Department, they're asking questions to Brett. And during the course of the
questioning, the detectives tell him we are simply trying to figure out where you were on June 3rd, 1980.
To which his response is, I didn't hurt anyone. Okay, they're not asking him about the
murder. They've not told him that they are there investigating a murder or an abduction. They're simply asking him
where he was on that day and his response is, I did not hurt anyone. This suspect is what I like to call a
whack-a-doo, but if we took the time to go through every crazy statement he made
we'd have to do like a six-part series on this. I mean, this guy is a real whack-a-doo. Yeah, and if you review his
statement and his interview with police, we learn a few things. He admits to owning a red bicycle.
He also admits that he knows where Frankenstein's cave is located. In fact, he says that he had been there on
multiple occasions. And without giving a pinpointed time here, he basically admits to being in the
general area of where the crime took place on June 3rd, 1980. So, we have a guy that's behaving oddly. He puts
himself near or at the crime scene on the day that the crime took place. This is a good suspect, and he doesn't look
unlike the sketch, the composite that they've already released to the public. We also have eyewitnesses that say they
see somebody matching his description in this area around the time that Asenath went missing.
So, this guy's a good suspect. Now, we need to go back to the timeline. We talked about the timeline that was put
together by Detective Time. Let's expand that timeline out days, rather than just the minute-by-minute
that Detective Time gave us. So, let's go to September 27th, 1980. This is just a couple months after the
murder. On this date, we have another attack, an abduction attempt, that takes place at Olentangy Commons apartment
complex, which is not terribly far from the Asenath Ducat crime scene. In this situation, we have a victim who
is pulled from her bike. The suspect attempted to drag her toward a secluded field,
but the suspect dropped the victim and ran away when a passerby saw the abduction and screamed for help.
The victim assisted the police by having a sketch made of the suspect. The sketch
was very similar to the sketch provided by the witness to the Acina Ducat suspect.
Okay. We have to then back up to the first attack, the May 7th, 1980 attack that took place just 1 month
before Acina's attack. On this date, an unidentified victim took the bus from Tremont Elementary School
at the end of her school day. After exiting the bus on Canterbury Lane, she started on her walk home with another
female friend. A boy or a young man riding a red bicycle passed by them back and forth a few times.
When the female friend eventually had to start walking in a different direction to her own home,
the 11-year-old girl was suddenly attacked and strangled into unconsciousness. However,
she was never raped. When she regained consciousness, the suspect was gone. It is believed that the suspect was
scared off by the victim's friend or someone else. I've also seen reports that state he may have been scared off
by a neighbor dog. >> It's uh pretty scary to imagine to know that there's this horrible people out
there. Correct. So, one of these attacks takes place before Acina's attack, and the other takes place afterward. And in
both situations, police have reason to believe that the attacker was scared off. Now, in the September 27th
attack, an individual named Robert Chris Winchester was convicted of the attempted kidnapping. Robert Chris
Winchester was sentenced to 3 to 10 years at Mansfield Prison in order to undergo psychiatric evaluation.
Let's go back to the May 7th, 1980 attack. That crime went unsolved, but the victim
of that crime picked out Robert Chris Winchester from a lineup related to the September 27th, 1980 abduction case.
Winchester was never charged or prosecuted for that case. However, we must note that the victim picks him out of a
lineup. So, we have this Robert Chris Winchester who is convicted of a very similar crime
that takes place just months after Asenath's murder. And also the number one prime suspect in
a crime that took place in a very similar crime that took place in a similar location
just 1 month before Asenath's attack. >> Maybe we could get Strutner to take a syringe to this guy's testicles as well.
So, here's what the problem ends up being, Captain. You hear the old statement from the old football coaches
that say, "When you have two quarterbacks, you have zero quarterbacks." Right. Well, this is a
similar situation, but the flip side of that. Where in June, we have one suspect
that they like a lot, this Brett Strutner. Well, now in September of 1980, we have another suspect that they
like a lot, this Robert Chris Winchester. And oh, as it turns out, he too owns a
red bicycle. He too matches the description of a man or men in their 20s, early 20s, seen in the area of the
Asenath Ducot crime scene on June 3rd, 1980. So, now we have two really good suspects. The thing here is that doesn't
mean that they cancel each other out or that one should cancel out the other because what is later learned is that
these two went to school together. They grew up together. They lived on the same
street. They were neighbors. It's not out of bounds to make the assumption that these two were friends.
We know that they knew each other. Is there a chance that the two of them were up to no good
together on the day that Asenath was abducted? They both match the description. They both have a criminal history.
Winchester's crimes almost mirror the Ducat abduction. And they're both were believed to
possibly be in the area. So, one of these suspects is deranged. The other suspect is a pedophile.
It's very possible because these two individuals live close together that they would hang out together at some
point. Not only that, we have Winchester who's convicted of a very similar crime.
And prime suspect in another crime that almost mirrors Asenath's abduction. Now,
we have Strutner who is blabbing to everybody that he at least believes that he is guilty of
something. He's telling everybody that the police are after him. He says when he's in lockup that he
killed an 8-year-old girl. So, I'm starting to see something that maybe the police didn't fully see. I
think that they did eventually, but maybe not in 1980. I think some of the confusion and some of the
problems with this case and with this investigation is that it just wasn't so simple. It
wasn't as simple as man abducts girl, kills girl, flees the area. I think that we have a situation where
we may have more than one individual involved. And because they won't rat on each other, or because that they may
even help each other in some form or fashion on these uh on covering up this crime, that it's
not so easy to detect what exactly happened that day. Both of these suspects are good suspects. Both live
close to the crime scene. Both fit the profile in different ways and both not cooperative with police.
The other problem here too, Captain, is we have Brett who seems to have been in the area based off of eyewitness
accounts and he puts himself in the area at the time of the crime. And then the flip of that is we have Winchester who
again not cooperative but is coming up with potential alibis for his whereabouts that day and
none of them check out. So, he's lying about his whereabouts on that day. Well, why would he do that? Clearly he's got
something to cover up. One of the things that you were talking about earlier is the eyewitnesses seeing the red bike.
So, then police have this one suspect and they go, "Well, he has a red bike." And then this other suspect, he has a
red bike. Well, at some point in my life when I was a child, I had probably two bikes. One was probably a older bike
that maybe I outgrew and then the kind of mountain bike or something like that. But, red isn't a uncommon color
for a bicycle. So, I'll start to try to paint a picture of what I think possibly
happened on that afternoon within that 4-hour time window that we started off with on yesterday's episode. I want to
be clear here. I'm not the first to come up with a theory that is similar to this. There
have been a lot of good people that have done gangbusters work on this case. Most
of them, the people from the Long Walk Home website. This is a theory, my theory is similar
to theirs and to other theories that have been recently suggested. And when you look at the crime scenes
along with the physical evidence that we have, you will see that theory carries some
weight. First off, let's go back to Sini's route that she was taking home. When she got onto Waltham
Road, she would have simply made a right to travel north up Malvern and go directly to her home. However, when the
scent dog tried to retrace Sini's footsteps, the dog went south instead of turning right onto Malvern,
made a left and went south of Waltham. Now, even more south of that later, some of Sini's
papers from school and her umbrella were found were found in this general area. This is a concealed area,
a wooded area, forest area forested area. I believe that they found her belongings
there because instead of making a right onto Malvern, something made her change her direction.
And I believe that's when they tried to grab her. Somebody tried to grab her or started to approach her. She didn't like
the situation and she turned and she started to head south away from her home simply to get away from whoever this
was. She's out by herself. I think that at some point she gets chased down and where she is apprehended
by these individuals is where we find some of her belongings later. I think that we probably are dealing with more
than one abductor. And I don't think that our abductor had a vehicle. He [snorts] may have had a
bicycle. His partner in crime may have had a bicycle as well. One could have been on foot.
It's hard to say, but we have several witnesses that see a red bicycle near this crime scene.
Now, the reason why I don't think that the abductor had a vehicle is because if they did, they simply would have taken
her, put her in the vehicle, and drove to a location that would provide whatever
privacy that they wanted for whatever they intended to do. That would make sense if we would find
her body later at a location far from her neighborhood. Yeah, I agree. But what we do know takes place is that
within that 4-hour window at the end of it, her body is found in her neighborhood.
And actually, just about 100 ft, maybe a football field away from where I believe she was abducted.
Well, why would anybody place her there? We know that she was killed at that location where she was found based off
of all of the police reports and the police findings. But what I think happened here, Captain,
there were always rumors, there were always stories, there were always theories that maybe she was attacked
in that forested area, in that wooded area. Maybe she was attacked on the other side
of 33, of Riverside Drive. The problem with that, with those theories, is that if she was attacked in
those areas and assaulted in those areas, the individual who decided to kill her
would have just killed her and simply left her there. There would be no need to transport
the victim anywhere. It's only adding to the risk level of the criminal's behavior.
>> Yeah, I agree because once you go to move that victim, more eyewitnesses could see you. But what we do have is
witnesses that say that we see or may have seen a male white carrying an unconscious girl or an injured girl.
Or an injured little kid. I think what we have here is a situation where she was
she was attacked and grabbed and transported to a secluded area, but that secluded area was either a home or
someone's backyard. And I believe that it was probably a home very close to where she was abducted from. The reason
why somebody would then transport her body later is because she is attacked in an area
assaulted in an area where they needed to get her out of there. We've talked about on this show so many times what a
big problem it is for the criminal to have an abducted victim alive or otherwise in
their vehicle. That's a big problem for the criminal. It's also a big problem to have an
individual abducted alive or otherwise in their home or in their backyard. And so when the search started going
down for Cini and people started looking for her, somebody or somebody's knew, I
have to get this out of here and get this away from my property or from this area that I
took her to or the property that I took her to. Why? Because all roads lead back
to me or my helper. And I think unfortunately what happened here, Captain, is I don't think
that the police were wrong. It's so obvious that unfortunately she was killed where she was found.
>> I agree. But we've also covered this plenty of times on this show. And we've reviewed the comments and the
statements of victims who survived an attempted murder as well as murderers who say, "You know what? It's more
difficult to strangle someone to death than you realize." Or I have attempted to strangle somebody
and then eventually they came to. I think wherever she was assaulted, someone strangled her and believed that
they had successfully killed her. She was then moved away from that person's property or their friend's
property with the attempt to conceal her body by removing it from that location to try to
put her place her inside that culvert to conceal the body. When she was placed on the rocks before
they could move her in there, she wakes up. She comes to. They weren't successful strangling her.
And it was in that moment that one individual picked up that rock and unfortunately they killed this
little girl. >> Yeah, animals. >> The crime scene suggests a couple of things. One, we would learn that there is
scientific physical evidence that proves that Stutler was involved. That he had contact with the victim on
the day that she was killed. That places him with the victim. That places him at the crime scene. Now,
there were footprints that were found in this area. These footprints do not eliminate our other suspect,
Winchester, from being at the crime scene, at the murder scene. However, that would probably leave us
with a potential third or fourth perpetrator. If these two guys did this together,
they had to take her somewhere nearby. And they had to take her somewhere that they would want to not leave her there.
And therefore, the most sensible, reasonable answer, the most logical answer would be that they took
her to someone's home, to someone's property nearby. And probably rather close to where she
was ultimately found just before 7:30 p.m. So your thought is that is at least these two individuals, maybe possibly
one more individual involved in this crime. With the way that the movements of the victim and her belongings where
they're found and then some of the physical evidence that we know to be true in this case, yes, that's what I
see here as being the most likely scenario to play out. Again, I think where the problem was is that
we have a crime scene that the police just did not understand. They didn't understand that we might be looking for
two perpetrators or more. We didn't understand that she may have been moved to a other to another location. They
understood that. That's their own words. So we believe that she was moved elsewhere. Right. But again, why would
you move to a vehicle? If you move to a vehicle, you're simply going to be parked on the side of the road somewhere
in this neighborhood. I feel like that's awfully difficult to happen. And I also
feel like the best suspects per the newspaper reports of 1980 and even after that, both of these guys
are on bicycles. And so didn't have the means to be using a vehicle. We also have statements from
other witnesses later that would come forward saying things like what one of the suspects that we named,
his bike was seen in a garage in a home that was within walking distance of where
the body was found. Yeah, and when you look at it on a map, you're like, "Wow, that's
extremely close." There are witnesses that came forward that said that one of these suspects, if
not both of them, were hanging out with somebody that lived very close to where the body was found. So, when you compile
all of this information and you look at the totality of it, all put together, it starts to you start to see a picture
and you start to see how this thing could have played out. And it's a rather simple answer. And again, I'm not the
first one to come up with this and I know that my theory is not exactly spot-on with some others that have been
released. But, that's why you'll want to review some more information at the longwalkhomeua.com
and form your own opinion. Take a look at the maps. Take a look at the physical evidence.
>> Or just listen and believe everything we say. That works, too. With all this time, with all this evidence, with all
these eyewitnesses, with all this demand for answers, why don't we have somebody locked up and
held responsible for these crimes? >> This case gets complicated and I know that there are people out there that
say, "Hey, the cops really screwed this one up." That was even the title of a newspaper article that said, "Experts
say police bungled this case." And maybe they did. Maybe they did. I can only tell you what I have seen. What I see is
a rather complicated case where there were several people involved that it would be
difficult to it would be difficult to figure out that there were multiple people involved.
It's kind it reminds me a lot of the Martha Moxley case where you had all of these years go by,
decades go by. This girl's killed in her own neighborhood. There were multiple people that were suspected. And in the
end, when you really put the pieces together, it's a much simpler case than you would think. Right.
When you look at Seena's case, I feel it's the same thing. Once you know all of the pieces and the moving parts, it's
actually a much more simple case than it would appear on June 3rd, 1980, and June
4th, 1980, and June 5th, 1980. There going to be things that the officers that the detectives saw at this
location, at the crime scene, that just didn't make sense. And it made it hard for them to put
together the complete story. Why didn't they make sense? Well, because there were more people involved
than they thought. And once you put it together, now it seems like it's it's pretty clear.
But let's add to the fact some other complexities that take place in this case. You have one of the main suspects,
Brett Swartner, who committed suicide 4 years after the Ducat murder. And yes, he was in and out of jail for
some time. He continued to have problems. But ultimately, he jumps out of a window. I believe it was the sixth floor
at the YMCA building downtown Columbus. Not high enough. In 1984, they find the door to his room
locked, the window wide open, and his body outside on the ground. They don't find anything of importance
to this case. You know, when when they're responding to this, when law enforcement are responding to this call,
you know they're hoping that he wrote out a written confession before he jumped out the window. Right. Or find
evidence of the victim or that crime or other crimes in his room. That didn't happen.
Well, then the problem then becomes that one of your prime suspects is now gone.
He wasn't cooperating before, but now you're going to get zero cooperation out of this individual.
>> more ball stabbing. >> Winchester ended up serving time for that September 1980 attack.
And he did over a year, I believe about 2 years or so on that attack. Obviously, he's not cooperated as well.
And there may be another individual or two out there that played a role in this.
And we just don't have all the facts from them, either. It's really truly a sad case
for the neighborhood, for the Ducat family. There has been no justice in this case.
And I wouldn't go so far to blame police. Had a monster not taken this girl's life
or monsters, we would never have this discussion to begin with. I think that there were some
people that worked very hard on this case and cared a lot about Asenath and her family and tried and did everything
they possibly could. I don't see a situation where the police put on blinders. They called in the FBI. They
sent physical evidence to the FBI. They asked for people with better resources for their help.
And unfortunately, I think it's just one of those cases that I I'm not very confident that this
thing gets solved or solved the right way. Anytime there's a crime where we think there's multiple people involved,
it's more likely that somebody's going to talk or we're going to hear rumors, rumblings.
But in this case, we have one of the suspects, he's dead. One of the suspects is incarcerated.
If there's another individual, then what happened to them? But I I because of those reasons is probably why we
haven't heard more rumors about these people being connected. As you heard in these episodes, the Ducats, the family,
are wonderful people. They're some of the kindest, bravest people that I have seen, specially based off of Alexander
Ducat's statements in the months after his little daughter was killed. There's been no justice for the Ducats.
There's been no justice for the people of this neighborhood. And it's something that I hope changes. And we can only
hope and pray that something happens, that there is a break in this case to lead to some form of justice. I know
that I, along with many other people, think of Asenath this time of year, every year, as we're
letting out school, getting ready for the summer break. We think about her, we think about her
case, and we think about the things that could have been done differently in this
investigation. We also think about the suspects and people that are capable of this type of horrific crime.
Seenie is not to be forgotten. The Ducats are not to be forgotten. This crime is not to be forgotten. This is
something that I hope stays with everybody until this thing can be solved. And one day, somebody can be
locked up and put away for what they did a long time ago. >> [music] >> I want to thank you guys so much for the
support [music] in keeping the lights on. I love you like I love Hank Mardukas. Colonel, do we have any recommended
reading? We do, Captain. This week we are recommending that everybody go to the longwalkhomeua.com
website. It's a website dedicated to the case that we covered this week and show
your support. Read what they have there. They have more than we could cover on this case this week. And also, support
the Asenath Ducat project. And you can find that information at longwalkhomeua.com.
And we will have that listed on our recommended page at truecrimegarage.com. >> And until next week, be good, be kind,
and [music] don't litter.

Asenath Dukat /// Part 2 /// Episode: 584

Original Release: 5-31-2022 Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

This week we are taking a look at a local Cold Case. 3rd grader Asenath Dukat was abducted and murdered on a short walk home through her neighborhood in 1980. This all took place in a very safe neighborhood or so we thought. What was learned was that Asenath’s case was just one of several attempted abductions and assaults of similar victims. Now forty two years later, there is still no justice for this little girl and her family. A special thanks goes out to the good people of The Long Walk Home. This is a local project dedicated to Asenath, the Dukat family, the UAPD and the good people of Upper Arlington, Ohio. Their extensive and brilliant work on Asenath’s case has helped to keep this case alive and the investigation “active.” For a complete case review and study please visit them at www.LongWalkHomeUA.com

Beer of the Week - Uni-Chrome by Pipeworks Brewing Co.

Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved murder of Asenath Ducat and key suspects in the case.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Welcome to True Crime Garage, where we dive into the world of crime stories.
Eyewitnesses and Suspects. A case involving an 8-year-old murder brings many eyewitnesses and suspects to light.
The Profile of a Killer. Exploring the psychological profile of Asenath's killer based on past cases.
Brett Strutner's Strange Behavior. Brett Strutner becomes a suspect after behaving strangely following the murder.
Anonymous Call to Police. An anonymous call alerts police about a suspicious individual after a murder.
Eyewitness Accounts. Witnesses place the suspect near the crime scene on the day of the abduction.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

When somebody kills a child, it’s a crime against an entire community.

3:31WatchApr 20, 2026

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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