Amy Mihalijevic /// Off The Record /// Episode 24 | Forensic Files

All right, did you uh happen to see the the fight? Yeah. to fight the big fight? I didn't watch
the fight. They They come asking me if I want to fight the big fight. Yeah, I'll fight
the big fight. Let's see me get my face kicked in. Conor was stopped at uh fourth round.
I think they claimed that it was a rear naked choke. It was basically just the dude cranking on his neck. Mhm.
And right when he gave it up, too, like he You could almost see like he put himself in position like just take my
neck. Which the guy the whole you know uh the Russian Khabib um kept saying all you
know the whole time this this guy gets tired and he uh gives up his neck. Mhm. And he quits. And that's his way of
quitting and but was what was interesting was he would not let go of the you know once you tap Mhm. you're
supposed to let go and he would not. And then the referee had to pull him off while he still then starts talking all
this trash to Conor while Conor's just kind of sitting there and the next thing you know
the guy that won Khabib jumps over the fence. Mhm. And goes and tries to attack somebody
from Conor's team and then this whole almost this whole riot breaks out. And then you have
three guys from Khabib's team that jumps in the ring and starts punching Conor. Uh which they claim that the three guys
that jumped in the ring were arrested but then released because Conor wouldn't press charges.
And I thought maybe the the the arena could press charges. Mhm. You know what I mean? Like
the individual shouldn't Let's let's leave this up to Conor. So Yeah, I I don't know I saw um
I didn't see the fight but I did see the highlights if you want to call them that.
I mean, really when it when the room breaks into a brawl, I don't know if you call that a highlight. It's it's it's
something um uh that of course I like some action but it's also like come on guys like it's
kind of um uh depressing sign of of some of the individuals in that room. I don't know
the way that that works though but you bring up an interesting thing because had uh you would think UFC or whoever
was in charge of the fighter or at least the arena would want some kind of charges
to be held even if it just results in a fine because you you don't want to you know
we saw this with the NBA years ago. You don't want to let this slide or it will happen again you would think you know
these these are um high high intense individuals and they get worked up. Dude shouldn't have flown
over the fence and come at anybody but um you know And you got to see it, too, cuz when he
goes jumping off the mat I mean he looks he looks very similar to like one of the
like flying monkeys in the Wizard of Oz. Mhm. Like just like the way he pounced.
I mean he looked as if he was flying in air. Right. and it he almost it was a flying kick.
He almost landed the flying kick against the guy he's trying to land against and
and it's a tough situation, too, cuz I've followed Conor's rise of Conor McGregor and
always um I think I I appreciated the fact that he came from nothing. He was trying to make
something of himself. Uh and he would always talk about the times that he wasn't something and now he is
something. And this this whole leading up to everything was just kind of disappointing
uh in the way he talked and the way his actions um and the other guy I think as much as I've never been a big fan of
Khabib um I started becoming more of a fan of him. Mhm. Oh, you're going to show up
late to the press conference? I show up on time. I'm professional. Mhm. And then
I leave. And uh even Dana White said it was one of the best counter to the mind war that
you play was I'm not going to play your games. You don't show up on time, I leave.
Right. And um he even stated a couple times, "Hey, I understand that we have to talk trash
to each other but when every other word is a curse word and you have some kids watching
you know again now people could say look this sport's not for everybody and maybe it's not for kids
but I respected that idea. So here's this guy that remains calm, stays in control
fights his fight. It's not a perfect fight. I That's the other thing that's been driving me nuts
is how many people have said how much he's dominated the fight. Like no uh the first round was boring.
Second round he dominated. Third round I think Conor won that round. And then in
the fourth round obviously he gets the the tap out but but at that moment you have a chance to
be champion not just um of the UFC but champion of your people. He's from uh Gannistan um
Kazakhstan. And every from what I've heard since he's Just outside of Utah, right? Yeah, yeah.
Right outside Michigan. It's It's the If you put your hand up, it's over here by
the index finger. Um but he was a wrestler he a national champion. He won grappling
events and but because he got so big in the UFC pretty much any building from where he's from that has a basement
is now you know a wrestling um uh what do you I don't know class or whatever. You know they have all these
classes. So these have been popping up all over his country. And it would just it would have been uh
he you know and even both these individuals said they're not going to shake hands and they're not going to
shake hands after and I get it sometimes people just hate each other but what you
normally see is people say that Mhm. and then at the end they hug it out. And they
sometimes they raise both each you know both hands or or you know give some respect and that's kind of what the
sport is about. And it's just such a being a boxing fan and all this stuff and trying to get buddies of mine that
like boxing to be like oh man MMA is just as good and then you see this and you go ah such a
uh depressing way to end this awesome event. So it was uh but whatever. I mean what can you do?
Your your your heroes are going to fall eventually. Well, I like this the idea of the new
champion that you said that he uh tries to hold himself and carry himself a little differently than uh McGregor and
that's interesting. Like you said it's it's debatable if if children should be watching this at all but you know
sometimes parents reward their children for uh you know getting good grades or or being an awesome kid or helping mom
or dad with something and and sometimes kids really want to I remember I was like
I don't know like 15 I wanted to go to Megadeth concert. Um that's probably not a great place for a 15-year-old to go.
Or it's the best place in the world. Right. But but had I got like you know all A's or something I think it
would have been a nice trade-off uh for mom and dad to to let me go to something like that. So hopefully
you know it is a violent sport but if there are kids of a of a decent age if there are younger people watching it
certainly will help. It's definitely better for the sport and the longevity of it.
And what you just said though it it is a sport. It's supposed to be you're supposed to have sportsmanship.
Right. And yeah for somebody and and I think Dana White handled himself amazing and and
and that actually as as sad as you could tell he was it was supposed to be the biggest
thing that he ever did in his career. Mhm. Dana White, you know, and they're asking him questions at the end and I
think you could just see how sad he was it like it made me actually like go. And somebody said, "Look, this sport's a
good sport it just because these you know um this thing happened that this is a reflection on these individuals." Mhm.
And so so at the end of the day like you said could there be something that happens? Well
what's nice about the UFC is it's kind of like a dictatorship. They're going to do
whatever they want to do. Mhm. Right? So these three guys that jumped in the ring and
attacked a fighter after he fought pretty much four rounds. Um these guys are fighters.
Right. So, they're done. I mean, and that's the that's the interesting thing about the
UFC is they don't really need you. But, uh I mean Well, that that's right though. I mean,
it and you know, we might be talking about some stuff that maybe not a lot of people know about,
but um it the thing is and I think this is a complaint shared by most of the public, general public anyway, that a
lot of these athletes are paid very well and um some of them are are not. Um so,
I think that gets skewed a little bit. We see, you know, somebody like Peyton Manning making I don't know, 15 million,
20 million a year and we think they're all paid that that handsomely. There's a lot of professional athletes
that are making 100 grand, 200 grand, 300 grand and sacrificing quite a bit of their body and maybe their future to do
so. But, you the thing there is it is and should be considered a privilege to be able to
perform at that high of a level, to to work with an organization like the UFC, the NFL, NBA,
have the opportunity to make that much money. Right. And and and so, I applaud them if they're saying, "Hey, you you
people that people that don't behave inside the lines, then they have no business with our organization." Because
there are so many young people out there that are striving, that are are working
their butts off to try to get to that level. And if that's the case, if we if the supply and demand if the supply is
so much more than, you know, the the actual numbers that can get in there, then it should be the good people that
make it in there, the ones that can play inside the lines. Well, and I think the
thing too is there's just people that think that one, they can do whatever they want and two, that they're bigger
than the actual organization. Mhm. And that's not the case. I mean, we've seen it time and
time again with the NBA or the NFL. And you're going to see it with the UFC, you
know, so. Uh but, yeah, it was it was one of those things where that the fight wasn't that
exciting and then you then you go you're like, "Ah, man." I mean, it was a good,
you know, pay-per-view overall. But, you go, "Ah, man." And then 2 seconds later this brawl
happens and you just go, "This is just, you know, it's this is not a tough man contest. This is not,
you know, let's have a bunch of beers and punch each other in the face." Mhm. This is you know, it's supposed to be a
sport. It's supposed to be um mixed mixed martial arts. And when you think of where that kind of stems from,
somebody like Bruce Lee and the respect that he had and to hold yourself accountable and all this stuff. And
that's the other thing that really pissed me off is then the post-fight conference, which
probably most people don't watch, uh Khabib comes out and I'll go, "Okay, here's his chance to say something." And
he apologizes to the commission. He apologizes to all these people. The people he apologized to are the people
that are going to determine whether or not he gets to fight again. Mhm. That's who he apologized to.
He didn't apologize I don't think he apologized to the fans. I don't think he apologized to the people in the arena
that he put at danger. Right. Um because for whatever reason, UFC had more officers on staff and if they want to
control that, it could have been really bad. I mean, there was the Mike Tyson fight that they had a riot. And there
was just fights all over the arena. So, um you know, he comes out and apologizes.
I thought the funniest thing was how he's uh his father, which is his trainer, uh which isn't able to have a visa.
That's another problem. You jump out of the ring and you attack people, you might not get a visa. You might not even
So, at that point, the UFC's just going to strip your title. Cuz you can't fight in the United
States, so um but, he even said, "I know when I get home, I my father's going to smash me." And I
thought, yeah, I hope he smashes you twice because you should apologize to that and all the
young fans of his um looking up at him and it's just it's it's actually really sad. Uh cuz you go
here here's a moment that this um this guy that seems to have good intentions at least, you know, and wants
to show that you can win and be respectful and not talk trash. Um and do everything the right way and he
did everything the right way. And then he won the fight. And then after that, it was like, "What?" So,
but yeah, but on a on a better note of the UFC fight, uh there was a guy Derrick Lewis that fought.
And he got his ass kicked for ba- basically three rounds. He was getting his ass kicked. He looked
tired. And out of nowhere, he knocks the dude out. Mhm. And uh you know, they wear little shorts and he
and Derrick pulled off his shorts. So, he didn't he didn't he just had his underwear
Mhm. And Joe Rogan always interviews the fighters afterwards and he said, "Derrick, why did you pull off your
shorts?" Right. He said, "My balls were hot." Oh. Okay. Well, that's not great for the younger
viewers, I thought. Well, no, no, no, but, you know, ah, come on, it's a you know, it's it's a fart joke, you know,
basically. All right. So, what's what's happening in your world? Um the Browns are 500. That's what's
happened. Yeah. Barely. Well, Barely. They're 500. That's That's better than some other teams out
there. That's true. Baker Mayfield coming through. Three overtimes in five games. I was at a
Browns backer's party yesterday. We're trying to give you uh your money's worth. Like, "Hey, we
know we haven't won in the last like 2 years, so we're going to we're going to play extra
minutes for you." Right. I was I was terrified yesterday that we were going to play another overtime and lose.
But, um Mhm. So, we I I last week I spoke with Bill Huffman. Okay, so Bill is uh someone I consider a friend of the
show, somebody that I was lucky enough to meet within the last year. He's working on a fantastic project. He's
doing a podcast called Who Killed Amy Mihaljevic? I don't know how many episodes it's
scheduled to be. It it I think it started off as like a 10 deal, but it might go longer than that. Uh you and I
know this, Captain. Sometimes after we cover a case, we end up getting you know, a bunch of people will reach out
to us with some new information and things like that and that's why we've been lucky to have this extra show off
the record and able to put some information there. So, Bill and I were we have sat down a
couple times and discussed the unsolved murder of Amy Mihaljevic. She was abducted from a Bay Village, which is
northeastern Ohio, um nice community. She was abducted from a shopping plaza there on Friday, October 27th, 1989
and her body was found in um a couple counties away, about a 50-minute drive from where she was abducted. Her body
was found a few months later. And Well, one of the scariest thing about that case is when you find out
that Amy received a phone call at her at her house Mhm. and that this individual
basically talked Amy into, "Hey, come to the shopping plaza. We're going to get a
gift for your mother." I believe that's correct. The mother mother got a promotion at her job or something.
And then she goes missing and and and that's one of the scariest part the scariest details of the in the case to
me. Yeah, and in 2016, remember the press conference, Captain? The Bay Village Police Department, along
with some help from the FBI, they had a press conference stating that, you know,
look, there there were some other items that were found in the field where her body was found and we think that they
may uh well, actually now we know that they were linked to Amy. Uh it's believed there was a curtain.
Um and I reference this because what we're going to hear here shortly is just a conversation that Bill and I had
regarding the unsolved case and we do reference this curtain and you and I have talked about this before. The
interesting thing about Amy's case as far as the way it plays to True Crime Garage is
we we've talked about this case. I don't know that you mentioned this last week and I thought it was an interesting
take. We've discussed this case many, many times on the show, uh on True Crime Garage, on Off the Record, as everybody
here knows. But, you said, "Well, we've not really covered it." And I thought that's an
interesting take because that's that's not wrong, you know, um It's the truth. Right.
It's a interesting truth that I took. Yeah. So, Yeah, cuz when we covered have to cover it someday. Yeah, when
wha- what happened was So, I when we had James Renner come down the first time, he was so nice to come
down, didn't know who we were. Told the story a million times, blah blah blah blah blah.
But, anyways, the the nice thing was you're like well, the funny thing was you're like, "Me and James are going to
talk about this Amy Mihaljevic case." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, Nick and James are in the other room
talking and me and the engineer turn down the we can't hear you. Mhm. So we just turn
it off and we just kind of catch up cuz we recorded at my old work. So then I edit the show later
to put out the episode. Mhm. And it was taking me forever because I was listening.
Instead of just editing. So eventually I was like, "Okay, I'll just edit." I edited the show
put it out I hit play right away and I sit there and listen and to this day I still think it's
one of our best episodes cuz I'm one not cuz I'm not on it because nobody wants to listen themselves anyways, but
but it's just a really fascinating case um and that's the first time that we really
you know, quote unquote covered it was just a conversation between you and James Renner.
Yeah, and the the fun thing for me um is this is a case that I've followed for for a long time. It's one
of my top five cases I would say that's always uh hanging around. But Mhm. James and Bill are the only two
individuals that I've ever spoke to that know more about the case than myself. And so for me, you know, you know how I
am Captain, that's fascinating to me. Like it's there's only one Amy Mihaljevic book out there about the
case. There's not you know, it's not Jack the Ripper where there's dozens and dozens and dozens of books
out there and you can there's a wealth of knowledge that you can just keep finding things out. So
anytime I have the opportunity to talk to James or Bill, um it's it's exciting for me because I get to
learn some new things about the case that I was not aware of. And you'll hear that in some of our conversation here
with Bill Huffman. So I've been listening to the podcast. I love it. Um I think it's great what
you're doing. It's The case itself is large enough with details and of course the time span
and the characters and players involved that it it's really the perfect format to have you know,
how many shows you intend on doing? 10? A total of 10, yes. I'll tell you what, why don't we you
know, you and I have talked about Amy's case several times. You're one of my favorite people to discuss the case
with. Last time we talked about it, I did a lot of the talking cuz you wanted to
hear my thoughts and theories and I got a bazillion of them. Um So I I've been listening to your show
and I know that you are kind of inching your way or at least from conversations you and I had I know that you have some
thoughts and theories um that I was wondering if you would share with us here today.
Sure. Yeah, I mean I the way that I look at the case is that uh you know the people that know the Amy Mihaljevic
case, you know, the the ruse that was used to set up uh the kidnapping uh was something of the nature of I work with
your mother and we're going to buy a gift for her recent promotion at work. I've always believed that
the or at least with my investigation that I've you know, been doing over the last eight
to 10 months is that that was probably more of a misdirection than anything, you know
concrete like obviously the police looked into the the you know, where Margaret worked.
There was nobody there that fit any of those descriptions. She had not received a promotion
but she did go from part-time to full-time. So you know, that is a in some families that is a promotion.
And basically I think as far as the Margaret ruse, I think it honestly, you know, just to
cut right to the chase is that I think it stems from Mark's background. So somebody using the mother as a
misdirection. Okay, so if Amy does tell somebody about this phone call or as I believe multiple phone calls um
if she does tell somebody then I can back off. I can I just won't take the child and they'll think that some
creep from her mother's work was calling. And it what's interesting here is do you have an idea of I was aware that
Margaret went from part-time to full-time and in a child's eyes and a child's mind, that would feel
like a promotion. That might make sense to a child because you know, you're getting told, "Hey, mom's going to be
working more." Well, you could assume that was some kind of promotion especially when somebody especially when
somebody's telling you on the phone that she received a promotion. Do you have an idea of about
the time frame between when she went from part-time to full-time and when the abduction took place? Was it weeks?
That's you know, that's a good question. I I don't have an exact time frame. I do
believe it was in the within the month of when the phone calls occurred. But as far as
you know of course a kid is going to think that that is I mean, it is a promotion to to
any family who's you know, needs more money. Like every family every family needs
more money. So to go from part-time to full-time in a kid's mind, absolutely it's a promotion
to them. Sure, it may not feel that way to the mom or for to the father, but at the bottom the bottom line is you're
getting more money. So to the child, yeah. If somebody calls you and says, "Your
mom received a promotion at work." who is she to say that she didn't? Right. Well, and one thing that I'm loving
about your show is that there are so many you know, I've been looking at this case
since on and off since 1989, you know, and it's rare for me to find a new detail
that's concrete. And one thing that I heard on your show which is concrete, um I know it to be from listening
is the added detail about the phone call that the abductor or the man who called
her claims, "Hey, we're going to go buy your mom a gift. I need you to help me pick it out. I have $40 to spend and
whatever's left over, you can keep." Yeah, the that was one of the interesting details that I learned when
I was interviewing uh Chief Spetzel and that was that in the details that they learned from you know, the girls who
came forward to tell about the uh the meeting that Amy was having was that it believe it was $45, but it was one of
those yeah, it was $45, but it was one of those dollar amounts that I had never heard
before. And I was you know, I'd never even heard him mention a dollar amount up until that point. So I thought that
was pretty pretty interesting and you know, for a kid, again, let's say you spend 25 bucks on a gift, you get
$20. That's that's pretty rewarding. Oh, yeah. And incentive to to go about things.
The the thing that we you know, so odd about the case is well, one the phone call, that's obvious
because that's just putting yourself out there. But the way that he was able to get her to lie to her parents. I mean,
she had never really been one to lie and on this day she made up a lie about having to stay after school
for a choir practice and there was no such thing. Mhm. So not only did this guy get her
comfortable enough to meet you know he got her comfortable enough to lie. Right. So this person had to have had
experience talking to children. And that is you know, that that leads you to a bunch
of different you know, avenues. Right. Now you think or at least in conversations
you and I have had you think one possibility is that maybe the perpetrator would be
younger than some of the suspects that I've always thought of. Um And you and I had a conversation about a
young individual. Was it Was this man 20, 21? I believe he was I want to say he was
21. Okay. And the thing that makes his you know, we're just going to you know what makes him interesting is the fact
that uh what brought brought him to my attention was I did some uh FOIA requests with uh the service departments
around the area because I thought in my mind, you know, people who have time to drive around work on city
streets and you know, they could have time to you know, maybe stalk a girl or see a girl that they
that might catch their eye and then you know, boom, they know where they live. Oh, she's walking home from school or
riding her bike, let's just drive the truck you know, it's it's just was it it was something that just crossed my mind
because I worked for the city in college and uh just you know, there's some shady characters that work in those
uh departments, but in my requests, I uncovered a guy who had been hired by the city of Rocky River on
October 26th and then fired on October 28th. And there aren't many reasons that you get
fired within a day. Yeah, say those dates again. Uh the date was October 26th, 1989 that
he was hired. He was fired October 28th, 1989. Okay, so she was abducted on the 27th?
She was abducted on October 27th, 1989. So the guy he was hired and he may have worked that
Thursday, may have worked that Friday. He's fired by Saturday. Yeah, and so the the interesting part about it that
is that there aren't many things that get you fired in a day. So the thought process, at least my thought
process is that he left either left early or just didn't even show up for work. Yeah, you and I both agreed when
we had that conversation was really the I mean, of course, he could have stolen something. He could have
exposed himself. He could have done any number of things to get fired in a day, but the first thing that jumps to your
mind is no call, no show or just walked out. Exactly. And and and another interesting thing. So
that was the one thing that jumped out to me. Okay, the the dates are weird. So then I started looking into, you know,
looked into his record. And it turned out that he had had some charge in the metro parks. Now it did not specify
which metro parks, but in the city of Bay Village there is what can considered, you know, the
Cleveland metro parks, which is Huntington Beach area, the Huntington Woods area, as well as the Lake Erie
Nature and Science Center. And in those areas you have walking paths and you know, woods and soccer fields and and
just a variety of different things. So what is weird about is that there was this charge from I believe it was in
April of '89 that has been I well, I guess I'd say expunged, but it's still there. I mean, it's it's
there's some record of something that happened. I don't know if it would could could have been drunk and, you know,
public intoxication, but why would you get that expunged? And there was a time in
you know, you can't basically you can basically get you can't get anything expunged anymore.
It's very difficult, yeah. But back then there was just like a few you know, you you had to wait a few
years and boom, you could have your lawyer sending a letter and get that off of your record.
Yeah. So that happened in April. Then he gets hired at the city of Rocky River, doesn't show up for work or
leaves early. Amy goes missing. idea of proximity from Rocky River to Bay Village.
So Rocky River is literally the city directly to the east of Bay Village. Next door.
Next door. Okay. We share We're both lakeside communities. And the the interesting thing about this
individual is that he he lived he lived in Bay Village. But he worked for Rocky River.
Where he lived in Bay Village was just about a quarter mile from where Amy Mihaljevic lived.
And she walked and rode her bike from time to time to and from school. Um Yeah, it was very common back then.
at any time. And in fact, the day she was abducted, she rode her bike to school.
Yeah, she definitely, you know, the day that she was taken was abnormally warm. It was one of those
uh you know, Indian summer type days where I think it even was close to 70°. So kids were out playing. It was It wasn't
your typical late October Cleveland day where it was kind of like it is today where
it's gloomy and ugly. It was really a beautiful day and you know, obviously ended with
you know, in tragedy, but um But yeah, that that one individual, he he's somebody that I've uh
I've kind of focused in on. I don't know if I'm going to say that that is the person that I
believe did it, but I do believe that there's a lot of smoke there. Okay. And you know, and it as as
anybody knows, you know, where there's smoke there's fire. So Would this and he later went
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. No, no. I I keep cutting you off,
but I got um would he have happened to have lived alone? Do you know? You know, at that time I think he
probably would have lived with his parents. Okay. So and I don't know if I'm still trying to find the connection
between him and Ashland County. I think that's that's where I'm kind of running into
roadblocks, but you know, one of the things that the FBI always states is that people who commit crimes
generally will have uh adverse reaction to that behavior and they'll end up either
going to drugs or drinking. And this particular individual had multiple DUIs in the '90s, you know,
shortly after uh the abduction. So, you know, there was there was stuff there that just made me
think there might be something more to this guy than meets the eye. So you're not you're not to the point where
you say, you know, cuz James is named James Renner has named some suspects um or people he believes to be possible
suspects. Um I agree with some of his list. I think there's a lot of questionable behavior
in there, but you're not ready to say uh Bill Hoffman, I put my stamp on this guy
as I think he should be a person of interest. You're just saying at this point from what you can tell from
tracking this individual's history, there's nothing to take him off your list. Yeah, that's exactly where I
stand. And that's I'm kind of you know, I'm not going I don't want to go the James Renner
route in the sense that I'm going to say I have a top three or a top five. I'm just going to you know, cuz I don't want
to give anybody more credence than the other, but you know, he's one that definitely stands out to me
as somebody that could possibly be uh you know, the perpetrator. Just because of the fact that the description of the
of the guy came from two 10-year-olds. And when 10-year-old when you're a 10-year-old and somebody is 21 could
you know, easily be misconstrued for 25. I mean, what's the difference? Especially since they say
the age, you know, is 25 to 35. So Well, and that's where I think we've you and I vary a little bit is that
you know, the the one child who gives a description of the man that he believes he saw talking to
Amy uh has or has been quoted as saying something to the effect that I thought it was Amy's father.
And so that's where we vary cuz I tend to lean more towards that 30 to 35 range putting the individual closer to
the actual age of her father. Um uh but with this particular individual that you're
talking about, he you say is probably 21 at this time in October of '89. And what's interesting about that
though, there were after she was found, there were newspaper reports where we have witnesses in that Ashland County
area that say look, I think I saw some some guy in his early 20s uh with a with a car with the trunk open
uh in the area just days or nights before she was found. And I don't I'm not going to sit here and pretend to
think or believe that she was dumped days before she was found. I think she was there
quite a bit more time than that, but who knows? Did the individual come back and look at the site? Did Did he come
back and wonder why they haven't found her? Or is there any way that I can better conceal her? Um
and return to the area or was this an individual that lived somewhat near the area and
would drive by periodically to check on it? The The interesting thing there though, if
would you think that the guy that you're talking about would he And I know it's a pretty
general description they give of the man that's in his early 20s Mhm. seen in that area, would he fit Can you rule him
out from that I cannot rule him No, I cannot rule him out with that description. Now, the one
thing that I can say is that a lot of those claims of seen people or you know, the witnesses who have said that they
have saw somebody you know, authorities kind of downplayed that because of the fact that they do believe her body was
there for so long. Right. I do like your idea that he may have been going back and, you know,
Ted Bundy style, you know, appreciating his you know, that's a terrible word to use,
but uh We know what you mean. Returning to the scene. Returning to the scene, but
maybe to maybe not for the same reasons that Ted Bundy returned. Yeah, we're not going to go I'm not
going to go into what Ted Bundy did, but exactly, returning to the scene, getting that feel for uh you know, like
the rush maybe. But the the idea that she was there the whole time, you know, that
I don't know. That there is still some debate. James believes that you know, with
his belief is that she was there basically the whole time. Yeah, I think he says
and he said this to me too is that I he I think he thinks maybe sometime that Sunday night or the Monday morning that
somebody placed her body there. She was taken Friday afternoon. Mhm. Now, one thing that I find interesting regarding
that, you know, in a and he kind of clued us in on something. I don't know if he spoke too much. I
don't know if he said some things that he uh wishes he wouldn't have said, but one thing that was interesting when you
guys were talking about this exact topic on your show was that he had but he had
been told that the body likely was stored or kept somewhere for some amount of time. They don't they
didn't sounds like they didn't give him a good idea of what they feel is some amount of time, but
what's interesting on that thought is I had read years ago and I believe it was a quote from an FBI
agent that had stated we believe she could have been kept for a period of time and that could have been anywhere
from 2 days to 2 weeks. Mhm. Okay, so now where I roll with that is I had always thought that that meant kept
alive for as little as 2 days or as long as 2 weeks. Now hearing that information
that from your show, I'm starting to wonder does that mean might have been kept alive for a day or
two uh or I mean, you know, anywhere from from a couple hours after being abducted to a
day or two being held alive and then the body was kept from anywhere for two to two two days to two weeks before being
placed in that field. Right. And the one thing that would would back your uh statement up would be that her
stomach contents. You know, she did not have anything to eat. If she was, you know, she most likely
you can live without food for 2 weeks, but the fact that she only had what she had for lunch that
Friday in her stomach doesn't bode well for her being alive for much longer than
more, you know, for more than maybe 24 to 48 hours. Right. But the idea of her being stored
somewhere, now that is something that I do think James I don't know if he hinted at it or not.
I don't know if that's what you're referring to, but when he was talking about what was on the autopsy report
and that the police from Bay had told him not to discuss one thing that was on there. And I tried to get him to discuss
that one thing. but you you dog. You dog. Yeah, you know, uh he um he wouldn't, but you know, you have to let your
you can let your mind wander what that one thing is and maybe it is that. Maybe it is the fact
that she was kept in a cooler, you know, I mean we've all seen the Iceman tapes. Anybody
who knows true crime uh you know, the ice kill, you know, the ice pick killer whatever the Mhm.
Krzenski guy uh Yeah. But you know, they can and in Ashland, you know, it's major
hunting territory. So a lot of these places are outfitted with giant coolers. So who's to say that she
wasn't just kept for the weekend and then just put into a freezer for or not even necessarily a
freezer, but a cooler freezer type thing and then transported to where she was eventually found. Yeah.
And there's nothing that says that that couldn't have been the case. And maybe that is one of the keys that they're
holding back. Yeah, and and that's leads me to this. Something that I, you know,
when you and I had our discussion and I've voiced this several times even on True Crime Garage that
you know, when they release that information about the curtain or blanket or quilt or whatever you want to call
it. So many years, you know, over 20 years later they show that to the public and then
they ask for the public's assistance. And I and I've kind of criticized that move, but I I do want to say something
and I want to kind of clean that up that thought up quite a bit because where I where I
take issue with that particular method that they used there with that evidence that that they're
asking for people that have seen this item before. We have so many people that could have
passed, moved away, or just simply forgotten that they've actually seen that item before.
Where I've criticized that move, one thing I want to be clear on is when your interviews with Spetzl
I like that he refuses, he stops himself from referring to Amy Mihaljevic's case
as a cold case. And what he means by that when he says that is that it's very much active in the eyes of his
department. Meaning that they are actively pursuing this case when they, you know, when there is information to
review or when they have time to continue to pursue it. So I I want to be clear that I I'm
criticizing that particular method, that one item, but I'm not I don't want to come off as criticizing the police
department. I I don't think that this has not been solved because of a lack of effort. I think there's been an extreme
good, strong effort from the Bay Village Police Department. They've they've set aside ego multiple times, which we've
which we've seen flaw other cases when they can't set aside their ego. They've set aside their ego, brought experts in,
brought in FBI, brought in anybody from anywhere that's willing to help. So it's not for a lack of effort. The
thing here is that we got to keep in mind and and people are quick to criticize police departments when cases
go unsolved. It's not not always is it their fault that it's unsolved. This in this particular case
this wasn't I this was not a dumb man that abducted and killed Amy Mihaljevic. This is somebody that put some thought
into what they were doing. And I back that up by saying the ruse of talking to the child on the
phone luring her to a public place. He abducts a child and the nobody knows that an abduction
occurred. You know, she doesn't scream, she doesn't yell, she doesn't fight back. If she would have done any of
those things we would have we would have immediately known that that the poor girl was
abducted. He he was able to conceal his car or vehicle. You know, we don't have an eyewitness saying, "Oh, I saw a green
truck or I saw a blue van." We don't have a description of a vehicle. And so this person
I'm not I don't want to say he's, you know, highly intelligent. I can't speak to that, but what I can say is this is
not a dumb man. This is somebody that put a lot of thought and planning into what occurred.
Yeah, I I absolutely agree with you on that one 100%. The fact that he would set this up. He obviously scoped out the
the scene. You know, he knew where to park the car where he wouldn't be seen taking her.
Obviously he knew the police station was across the street. I mean, I know James has said, "Well,
there likely but you know, there are police cars in the parking lot. It may not he may have thought it was a city
hall." I could see that. But again, if he's this familiar with Bay and this familiar with Amy or Amy's background
I don't know. It doesn't it wouldn't surprise me if he he knew it was there and this was sort of like a
you know um look how smart I am. Well, yeah, I don't think it was a middle finger to
the police. I think that it was the police station happened to be located where it is and for him to get
Amy. And this is what I want to be very clear on it. I've been I've been very up
front about this the entire time. Anytime anybody asked me about this case this was not a random abduction. This
individual targeted her for some reason. And the thing with the police department
being across the street, I think it was just it's an added risk factor for him. But
you say he knew Bay Village and people out there listening are going to go, "Well, how do you know that he knew Bay
Village, Bill?" And I and and and let's talk about that. He he obviously knew Bay Village because of several
things. One, he called a girl that he knew had the ability to af- after school leave on her own.
This was not a child that was being picked up every day by a parent. This was not a child that was hopping on a
school bus every day after school. This is not somebody that needed to be accounted for the minute
that school let out. This was a child that had the ability to go to another location after school by their own means
without without using a vehicle and and choosing the plaza, a place where it was
known that children went to after school on occasion. And knowing the proximity of the plaza to her school was so damn
close, he knew she would have the ability to get there without telling her brother,
without needing a ride from mom or dad, without anybody else's assistance. She could walk there, ride her bike there,
what have you, be there on her own. And all he has to do is show up and wait to see her. And if she doesn't show,
you call off your call off your plan and maybe you try try another girl at another time.
But if she does show up, it's full go. And Yeah. And so he he for him to have had abducted her from
the plaza, I think it's very likely that he suggested meeting at that location. And
if he did, that means he knew Bay Village. He knew he knew the area. Well, that's a
you know, people listeners majority of people don't know what Bay Village is like.
Bay Village is a very you know, it's mostly residential homes. There is very little commerce as far as
stores and you know, the traditional strip malls or anything like that. This really at that time in 1989 was the only
place that kids really did go to after school because of the location of Wolf Road
being, you know, right there by the middle school. I mean, it was literally a quarter mile from there. So, it the
difference being you know, Amy would have had to go the opposite direction. You you brought up this is something
that I just thought of and that you brought up on your show when you discussed Amy. And it was an interesting
thought and it was why did she leave her bike? Right. Maybe she thought that they would go to the wherever they
were going to go, do whatever, you know, buy this gift, and then she would just get dropped back off at
the plaza and she would walk back to school, get her bike and ride home because it was
on the way. Right. To me, that makes the most sense as far as why she would have left her bike.
But again, Yeah. this person this person did not just randomly pick Amy Maholovic. Now, when
you and I spoke, I did throw out something that popped in my head. So, James Renner and I drove around Bay
Village uh for a couple of hours just really just spitballing. I mean, we were literally just throwing every wild thing
up in the air and seeing, you know, if any of it made any sense. But one thing that that popped into to my tiny little
brain while we were driving around was I said to him, I said, you know, cuz he um
you know, the the thought was that and this is just a bunch of outsiders' perspectives looking in on a family
dynamic and we don't fully know or understand that family dynamic. But but one thing that has been speculated by
more people than just myself is that Amy may have been seeking attention or affection from a mother that was
might have been um strict, might have been difficult, and definitely had some issues with alcohol.
And she may have been seeking attention and affection from this mother who could
have been distant. And if she if she was, and one thing that I tossed out to James
and tossed it out to you was and I know this is pretty far-fetched. It's a big giant leap. But what if what
if this this jerk says to Amy, "Go ahead and leave your bike at the school. Uh I'll pick you up at the plaza. We'll
go pick up the gift. We'll go shopping and then afterward, we're going to do a cake and punch
at at your mom's office where we're going to give her this gift and you can be there
to give your mom this gift that you helped me pick out." And I think I think if he came up with that, she would have
fell for it. If if Yeah, cuz that sounds very convincing and definitely would let the guard down
on And how safe would you feel if you say, "Hey, yeah, I'm meeting this person that
I don't know, but they're going to drop me off at my mom's work afterwards." to meet my mom. That
The biggest thing again, we go back to this. They had a secret code that they would tell one another, the you know,
between Jason, Margaret, and Amy Do you know what it is? Now, Mark has I have to go he doesn't Mark doesn't
remember a lot of stuff. Yeah. fair to say? And I like Mark. I I I my heart my heart is
goes out to him a million ti- I cannot imagine the hell that his life has been because of this terrible
event. Um so but so I'm not accusing him of anything, but it it's frustrating for
me to listen to Mark because I'm like, "Damn it, man, remember something." You know, um but but I think
Do you think it's you think it's post-traumatic So, you know, do you think it's PTSD
because his child was taken and murdered? I I I would think so. Yeah, I I honestly do believe that
there's a lot of Yeah, I'm a big big proponent of therapy and the you know, psychology and psychiatry
and all the you know, the means and methods of you know, treating that type of thing.
I do believe that there's a lot of PTSD. I can't fathom what it would be like to
lose a child. I can't fathom what his life has been like, you know, the living literally living hell that he's had to
go through. Well, let's throw this out there for the listeners and I'll let you get back to this thought. Uh but
just so they know, this is what Mark has had to endure. He he his child is abducted and
missing for a couple of months. The the I mean, the the hurt that that does to you in
that time frame day after day, ridiculous. And then when they do find her, she's been murdered.
Again, we can't even fathom the thought of having to deal with that. And then he's
divorced, his his wife ex-wife moves to another state where the thought is that she's going she was
the driving force behind finding Amy by but for looking for Amy. And then she moves to another state and it's did she
give up? Did she did she um succumb to illness? She dies. Uh it wasn't terribly long after Amy,
right? Within maybe 10 years or so? Yeah, it was uh 2001 that she passed away. And yeah, it was a combination of, you
know, from the autopsy reporter from the coroner's reporter, it was, you know, a
combination of lupus and alcoholism. Do you get the vibe that Mark and his son are not extremely close
these days? Well, no, actually I I know exactly the I know that it's completely the
opposite. Oh, good. Good. They are super close these days. Good. I was hoping I was hoping for
that. I've been there I've been I've interviewed Mark on two occasions for three plus hours each time.
On the last time I was there, Jason called and, you know, they were setting up something to go I mean, they see each
other well, at least once a week now. And they go to different car races and car shows and
uh he's kind of I'm they're buddies, you know, they really are. And the really interesting thing about the
dynamic and I don't want to get into too much of the fi- family dynamic, but yes, the divorce was going to happen no
matter what even if Amy wouldn't have gone missing. They were already They were on the outs.
They were already past the point of no return. So, I asked Mark, "Did Amy was Amy aware of how unhappy everybody
was, you know, that you were and that, you know, obviously Margaret was cuz she drank so much?"
And his thought was the it's kind of hard for her not to have known that Right. things were so bad.
So, look, my my parents split up and it was the the couple years leading up to that,
it was obvious. It was I mean, it was like you know, they they were arguing all the
time. And they're both good people, both smart people, loving, caring people, you
know, there was no no violence or no um uh running around behind another's back.
It was just two people that had grown apart and and were not getting along. And so, I knew I I think I probably even
told some friends, "I wish they would just hurry up and get this divorce over with." But and then there's other
relationships where we and we see this on TV and in movies more often. And so, I don't know if it
actually happens in real life or not. But all of a sudden, mom or dad one day pulls the child aside and says,
"Honey, your father and I are splitting up and it's not your fault." And the kid is
like railroaded, you know, had no clue that there was problems between mom and dad, but she's Amy was old enough. If
there was if there was infighting going on within the household, she would have been aware that even if
she wasn't told directly, she would have had an idea. She wasn't an idiot. She would have had an idea. She was 10 going
on 11. I mean, you're not you are basically a teenager at 11. I know you're not technically, but Amy was not
dumb. Amy was very aware of what was going on around her. And I think that the person that
used Margaret as the you know, I use the word conduit, but you know, as the way to
to basically get to Amy's heart. I mean, he that is like the ultimate drop your guard. We're going to go do something
for your mom and you know your mom's unhappy and your mom has been sad and she's crying and you know, she's
drinking and you know, God knows what the you know, the atmosphere at at home at the time was like, but if this little
girl Amy thought, oh, if I buy a gift for her, you know, things will things will be better. And
that's one thing that you know, 10-year-olds can be super smart about some things, but they still have magical
thinking in that sense, too. That hey, maybe if I do something nice for my mom, things at home can get better. And
James has mentioned before that there was tension between Amy and you know, Margaret and he references a
story where and I believe it was on aired it on one of the episodes where she's getting dropped off for her riding
lesson and she's having a spat with her mom and she gets out of the car and her mom
throws her riding boots out the window. Now, that story is interesting, but doesn't correct me if I'm wrong, but
does does that story come from a person that the police looked at and questioned?
So, that yes, so what James the way James knows that story is that apparently that story is
involve you know, involves one of James' suspects that he wrote about in his book, Harold Bound. And I can say his
name because his name's been published before and you know, he's he's been investigated and
you know, there is a lot of interesting dynamics there. And what makes that story interesting is
that when he threw the boots out she threw the boots out the window, this guy apparently came up to Amy and was like,
can I put those on for you or do you need help putting those on? And so, it's just kind of that creep
factor. But James, you know, he he talks about how he went and you know, looked into the
place that he lived. He's he's spoken with Harold Bound. He doesn't actually believe it was was him, but
that also doesn't mean that it didn't necessarily come from somebody that may have been connected to the stables.
Right. Now, the individual that you and I discussed earlier, the the man that's 21 at the
time, Mhm. is he still alive? He is. He is. Is he still roughly in northeastern Ohio?
Yes, he is. He is in he lives in one of the western suburbs. And other than the drinking and driving,
no no red flags on the criminal record? No, I haven't you know, I was looking for you know, crimes against women,
violence against you know, domestic violence or anything like that and it I don't know if he's gotten sober and
things have gotten better in his life and again, this guy could have absolutely nothing to do with anything
to do with this case. It's just circumstantially a lot of things are weird and they line up and
just proximity wise and I'm not sure if this person's ever even been looked into as far as the
investigation goes. Cuz I did bring up his name to Chief Spetzel and you know, Spetzel's never one to comment
on names as most authorities all authorities are reluctant to do or won't do. But he did say that you know, I've
I honestly I couldn't even tell you if I there's so many names. And just so many names. I
often hope and I hate to say this out loud, but I often hope that the individual that did this is still alive,
unfortunately lived a long life. I say that mainly because I want to see them it's not so much for my own satisfaction
to see who did it because I do think this will get solved at some point and I don't I don't say that for my own
satisfaction. I say that because this person needs the embarrassment, needs the to be treated
like the individual that they are underneath the skin and and needs to be brought forth to everybody to be to be
judged by us and and judged by God. And I want that to happen to this individual. So,
where I'm going with this Bill is one thought that I think regarding this is that
this individual was attracted and and I said this when you and I did our interview for your show.
This person this individual was sexually attracted to a 10-year-old going on 11-year-old girl.
Sexually attracted to her enough that he went to the risk of calling her home, went to the risk of grabbing her in
public, went to the risk of getting caught for for what he is. I feel that given those moves that he
made, that this attraction this thing inside of him is strong enough that I don't know that
it goes away. I don't I I would I would almost anticipate to that there would be
future molestations um of some sort. I think that this individual likely would be
attracted to young girls um preteen girls for the rest of their lives. It's hard
to imagine it's hard to imagine somebody being able to turn it off. Right. You know, they they always say that about
pedophiles. There is no cure. You know, you can put people in jail for 20, 30, 40 years, the
day they get out, they still have those same urges, the same feelings that they did before. Those things don't go away.
And that is one of the biggest problems that we face as a society with sex offenders is that there isn't a cure for
that disease of pedophilia. And if this person was attracted to to Amy in that way that
you just described, well, again, he would have and most likely done this again. And that's not to say that he
didn't, it's just to say let's say he did it and got away with it and nobody, you know, who maybe didn't kill this
person. It's just that he molested them and they didn't turn them in. Well, and You know, there's a lot of
weird things there. And I had a good debate about this a few years ago with somebody and and I said
the same thing, roughly the same thing that once once that attraction, likely always that attraction. It's just
something that's embedded in their DNA, I guess. Um and but my answer to I was asked, well, how how do you know?
How do you know? And I obviously we don't know that for sure. There's no I don't know if there will ever be a
scientific way to prove that, but my way of backing that up was my own experience. My own experience is this.
I'm a I'm attracted to adult women. Well, I I'm not saying that this individual or
or pedophiles wake up one day and decide, you know what? I'm going to be attracted to something that's illegal.
I'm going to be attracted to something that's wrong in in the eyes of society and well, just wrong. But
if I woke up one day and the laws all of the sudden said having a relationship or having romance
or sexual relationship with an adult woman is illegal, I I would be locked up and when they let
me out two years from now, I would still be attracted to adult women. You know what I mean? That's that's the
that's how I back that up saying that I think that for most if not all of these individuals, once the attraction, always
the attraction. I agree with that 100% and it's another society that's a a failure in
our society is that we send people to jail, we don't rehabilitate people. We don't make them ready to not to say that
there is a rehabilitation for a pedophile, but you know, again, you serve your sentence, you do your thing,
you follow the the guidelines, you have to register as a sex offender. There are there are ways to
you know, that we are able to keep track of these people. But the problem that everything boils down to is that 99% of
the time these crimes occur, nobody that person's not on a list. You know, they they don't they haven't
committed the crime yet. Right. It's just you know, with have you listened I've brought this up with James before, but
have you listened to In the Dark? I I know you don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but it's the Jacob Wetterling
yeah. And there you know, with you brought this up earlier in the episode where you talked about how it's not a failure
of the police and I don't I don't feel that way at all. Whereas in Jacob Wetterling's case, I feel like
there was a lot of failure. There was a There was breadcrumb trails back to the individual that we later
know killed Jacob Wetterling, yes. They freaking interviewed him. Right. They took They took one of his victims
to look at his car and the kids was like, "Yeah, I this looks like it." But the fact that it wasn't a hatchback,
they're like, "Ah, it's not him." That to me is a complete failure. Yes. But what what you said about the police
and how you mentioned Spetzl going out of his way to say that this is not a cold case.
And back to the blanket thing, you know, I You meant I just I'm just trying to like
about the blanket thing. I didn't explain what his thoughts were. It wasn't next to Amy.
But it would have been better if it they was released like 20 years ago. Right. Oh, yeah.
I mean, even if they didn't have a connection, even if they didn't have a scientific connection, you know, even if
the similar canine hairs didn't come up in their re-examination of the items, it's still would have been better to
just say, "Look, this is what we found. Does anybody recognize this?" Right. So, that's one aspect that I will say
cuz I can't remember what the hell my curtains looked like 29 years ago. Right. Right.
I mean, what the [ __ ] I mean, I'm sorry. But like, you know, honestly, what the hell did your curtains look
like 29 years ago? You tell me. No idea. No. And they weren't And they weren't mine. I mean, well, they weren't
mine. They were my parents, but um So, uh sad enough, Bill, looking at the calendar later this month, October 27th,
will be 29 years ago Amy Mihaljevic was abducted and killed. And we're still still waiting to find out
what happened. Well, the one thing I'll say about the We're coming up on the 29-year
anniversary, but the one thing that we do have going for us as far as the people who are out there hoping that
this case is solved and the people that are working on solving the case is that they are working on it and they do have
DNA that they are using to you know, run through all the tests that they've been able to
track down the April Tinsley killer and the Golden State killer, they are working
with those labs to do you know, the testing to try and find out who this individual is. And Phil Torres needs
said it's could happen in a week, a month, a year, but it it's going to happen. You
know, I found um an article and I think it might have been from the New York Times
a few months ago that stated that at the time 12 states were actively pursuing that type of DNA testing that that that
solved those cases. And and two others were getting on board. So, that's 14 out of 50. So, Right.
I I I encourage everyone out there, if you live in one of those states that does not, one of the 36 states that does
not uh ascribe to this method, contact your uh city council members, your congressmen, your congresswomen, your
senators, somebody and voice your opinion because there's a lot of cold cases out there, there's a lot of
justice still to be served, there's a lot of bad evil men out there that still need to be
apprehended.

Amy Mihalijevic /// Off The Record /// Episode 24 Recorded: 10-8-2018

Nic talks with Bill Huffman about his podcast Who Killed Amy Mihaljevic?

Brief Summary

This episode covers the UFC fight between McGregor and Nurmagomedov, the brawl that followed, and the implications for MMA culture.

Key points

Khabib vs. Conor Fight Breakdown. A detailed analysis of the fight's events and aftermath, including Khabib's controversial actions.
Derrick Lewis's Unexpected Knockout. Derrick Lewis surprises everyone with a last-minute knockout after a tough fight.
The Misdirection in Amy's Case. The ruse used in Amy's kidnapping involved a fake promotion for her mother.
The Child's Perspective. Children might interpret adult situations differently, affecting their decisions.
The Suspicious Timing of Employment. A man was hired and fired just days before Amy's abduction, raising questions.
Critique of Evidence Release. Criticism of the police's method of asking for public assistance with evidence after so many years.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Your heroes are going to fall eventually.

7:39WatchFeb 20, 2024

Tension

50/ 100Some tension

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