American Murderer /// Part 2 /// 624 | Forensic Files

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good the FBI and Arizona police are still looking for a wanted man Jason Derek Brown who is Accused in respons
responsible for a 2004 armed robbery that resulted in a homicide this guy has been on the run for 18 years now and as
we discussed yesterday Captain we brought up the fact that we covered the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives list back
in 2017 and I pointed out that the list has changed considerably since then there's
only one individual still on the list that I believe was on the list when we discussed it 5 years ago
and in fact our episode may have done some good because there was change to the list within days of us releasing our
episode so if you go to True Crim garage.com and you check out our blog most weeks when we put out an episode we
put up a a Blog on that case and you can get on there and you could submit a tip
you could ask a question about that week's shows you could provide some information a lot of times we get locals
people that are local to the case that we just covered that they get on there with some somewhat Insider information
that you would kind of have to be a local to know and they give us a little more details about the crime or the
person that we might be looking for if it's a missing person's case but if you go to our blog and you check back from
2017 on the Most Wanted episodes you'll see that we had some good people get on there and comment and one of the
individuals was a Kylie from New Jersey who posted that just 3 days after we released our episodes Walter yavan Gomez
was apprehended he was somebody that was on the list New Jersey gang member Walter yovani Gomez wanted in connection
with a brutal murder was arrested without incident August 11th 2017 they found him in Woodbridge Virginia and
then a week later a little more than a week later Lou maso was apprehended August 26th in Mexico and Sarah from
Parts Unknown says I like to think that it was because someone heard this episode and checked out the list yeah
and we're still waiting on our checks from the FBI yeah yeah there would have been rewards in both of those cases and
so good to see that the quick apprehension of some of these people that were on the list as we stated
yesterday Jason Derrick Brown is no longer on the list but they're going to have a spot opening up so I'm hoping
that they use the excuse of this movie to place him back on the list and to really put him back into the eyes of the
media and it was this case being in the media that led to a bunch of sightings you know everybody wants to know where
could this guy be where is he there were several sightings we mentioned yesterday
that he speaks fluent French and there were possible sightings in Canada he's also somebody that was raised in the
Mormon community and for a while at least there were they were getting sightings of Jason Derrick Brown in the
greater Salt Lake City area investigators even went so far to say publicly that they believe that Jason
Derek Brown may have been hiding in plain sight among the Mormon Community under an assumed identity and then there
were locations as far away as Quebec and Thailand that have been referenced in the Jason Derek Brown case as well one
thing that I found in my research here captain that I found fascinating was an article from April 20th
2020 from the Richland source and the title of their article was authorities Arizona fugitive sought
for murder may have been spotted in Mansfield Ashland Ohio area there's a picture of Jason Derek Brown in the
article and the article is coming out of Mansfield Ohio and it says authorities are seeking an Arizona man s for murder
that has possibly been spotted in the Mansfield Ashland area of Ohio Jason dererk Brown 50 he would have been 50 in
April of 2020 of Phoenix Arizona headlines this week's list of most wanted fugitives compiled by the
Northern Ohio violent fugitive task force in Richland County division for the week of April 20th Brown is 5 fo 10
in tall 175 lbs approximately with green eyes and blonde hair he is wanted for murder and armed robbery and Phoenix
authorities did not say where or when he may have been spotted in this Richland County area of Ohio but urge citizens to
not engage with him but call for help immediately well and based off his age I mean at this point his hair might not be
blonde it might be gray and and you would think that the stress of running from the law
enforcement for the last 14 years would maybe add to those gray hairs but I'm going to just put this out
there a con man maybe the job gets a little easier as you get older because you wouldn't be
suspecting a older gentleman to try to con you well and let's let the experts weigh in on the possibilities of where
he could be too so going back to Lance leasing special agent Lance leasing who was the agent in charge of this Manhunt
and portions of the investigation that led to this Manhunt when he's asked he was asked you know not just where could
he be but also do you think that Jason dererk Brown may have committed suicide that maybe he's no longer alive and Lon
goes on to say quote it's a possibility there are some family members that will and friends that say that they think
that happened Lon goes on to say quote it's a possibility there are some family members that will and friends that say
that that is what they think happened he goes on to say I don't know why he fled
for a while he planned the flight the agent says that he believes Jason Derrick Brown was ready for this that
that he could run at a moment's notice which is what he did obviously and so he said that based off of that information
that he does not believe that suicide would be something that Jason would do and he says I'm not a psychologist but
he doesn't want to get into the minds of all of that stuff too much but he says if you think of yourself that much that
highly of yourself is what he's saying suicide is probably not at the top of the list of things that he's going to do
well we know what he got from the robbery but we also don't know what other robberies he might have been
involved in so we don't really know how much like like they said FBI the FBI believes that this individual could have
ran at any time and maybe was planning for that how long was he planning that for and how much money did he have
stashed back to do so and did he have other resources that he already had set up did he set up other accounts did he
already come up with an alias did he already establish an identity alternative identity these are I mean he
was a con man for so long and I don't believe that Jason was a dumb individual I believe he he did have a a brain in
him well a big enough brain that he was able to con people out of money right and continually steal from people and
commit fraud over and over again and one thing that I thought was interesting too
is that the reporter asked the agent well what about plastic surgery do you think that that's
something that he Jason Derrick Brown may consider to change his look very dramatically the agent's answer is look
the pictures we have of him are old so he's going to change look and appearance just in age alone but also
um that that plastic surgery was something that Jason Dereck Brown may have discussed with family at some point
and that that would of course change potentially change his look dramatically right and that yes Jason would have
every reason to want to continue to hide from the FBI and hide from the authorities so he of
course does not want to look anything like the pictures out there the pictures of him
that are out there another thing that's very fascinating to me is like I was saying before this guy gets his
validation from outside sources but he did live a pretty normal life up until some
point when there was a switch that was flipped and so could an individual go back to that again you see a guy just
working a regular job driving a pickup truck you know change his hair color maybe changed his nose and you go that
that does it doesn't look like the same guy it doesn't act like the same guy and
maybe that's why we haven't caught him yet but it's also super fast thing because he's not the only individual in
the family that's missing that's correct his father's been missing for even longer than Jason has been missing so
that then that makes you wonder was he able and and let's just go over his father's story real quickly it seems
like his father was a a little bit of a con man got into some gambling and things of that
nature maybe even some gang activity right and and so some people go well he's he's not alive anymore he was taken
out by people and then other people say well he's on the run from those people not law enforcement but
maybe gangs or or organized crime so is it possible that he had some contact with his father and was they
they're on the run together yeah it's really interesting because his sister of course is portrayed in the movie
American murder and and plays a large role in this overall story this true crime story but she's on record as
saying that she believes or at least at one time did believe that the disappear parents of Jason Derek Brown's father
and Jason himself being on the Run were were completely tied and completely connected and she believed that it could
be connected in one of two ways either the father their father has stayed on the Run successfully for all of these
years and somehow Jason learned how to stay a ghost based off of his father being a
ghost or the other way that it could be connected in her mind was she said that there are days that she thinks that
maybe Jason Dereck Brown is responsible for The Disappearance of his father that
and the way that she worded it captain and her tone doesn't make it sound like he helped his father to disappear in
this sense that maybe he killed his father and made him disappear right that right the the murder of the Armed Guard
is not his first murder look we know he's capable of a heinous murder does that make him capable of
murdering his father absolutely and then is that the only two or there are other
murders that are involved because of Jason Brown constantly trying to con people and probably getting into some
sticky situations and maybe sometimes murdering somebody is the way out of that sticky situation the FBI has also
stated that they have reason to believe that at some point and they don't give it clear information like the more the
public knows the more the public has the chance to help you guys here but they state that they have information that at
some point while Jon Derrick Brown was on the run that he likely visited people he knew in the Salt Lake City area but
then an agent goes on and this is interesting too this is something for I hope the listeners ears per up a little
bit and they pay extra attention to this because again our purpose of us covering
Jason dererk Brown again is for the purpose of apprehending him just like when we covered the list five years ago
but an agent says quote it's very hard for individuals to change the way they live the way they behave this is a guy
who stays in shape likes Fitness likes to look good we are hoping that he is seen at a nightclub or a fitness club
and then they go on to say that he Jason Derrick Brown is an outdoorsy type as well so he would be very comfortable
Outdoors well one of the people listening to our coverage of the most wanted list in 2017 was writer and
director Matthew Gentile who is responsible for putting out this fine film American murder which is in
theaters now I'll give a little description of the movie Here Captain it's obviously based on a true story
they say this riveting Thriller follows murder an American fugitive Jason Derek Brown a charismatic con man bankrolling
his extravagant lifestyle through a series of scams Jason Dereck Brown is played by Tom
Pelfrey on Brown's Trail is Lance leasing a dogged FBI special agent played by Ryan Philippe Lance leing is
determined to put Brown Behind Bars when Brown's funds run low and his past catches up with him he plots his most
elaborate scheme yet pitting himself against the special agent in a deadly game of cat and mouse and becoming the
most unlikely and Elusive fugitive on the FBI's most wanted list we'll get to that interview with Matthew right after
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shopify.com [Music] free joining us here in the garage for the very first time we have screenwriter
and director Matthew genel who is here to talk about his new true crime movie that is coming out based all on a true
story or mostly on a true story and we'll get into reasons why here in a bit Matthew introduce yourself to the
audience tell us a little bit who you are and tell us about this wonderful film that's coming out hi Nick hi
Captain thank you so much for having me um as you said my name is Matthew jentle
I'm a filmmaker and this is my first feature film American murderer it's a true crime Thriller about Jason Derek
Brown charismatic conman who became the FBI's most likely an elusive top 10 fugitive it'll be coming out in theaters
October 21st on demanded digital October 28th and I'm here to talk about it with
this movie the case it's based on and uh with you and your with you and the captain and your incredible audience and
I'm excited to connect I'm a fan of the podcast so I'm very grateful to you guys
for having me on this will be my first True Crime podcast as we recording it so I'm excited to to chat with you well
welcome in and we covered a little bit of the J in Derrick Brown story years ago when
we explored the FBI's top 10 most wanted fugative list with our listeners and at
the time Jason Derek Brown was one of the criminals that was on that list the FBI was seeking this individual and this
is very much a an FBI case as well as a local case for the local police there in
the greater Phoenix Arizona area now this is still a bit of an unsolved case because Jason Derek Brown while he has
been removed from the top 10 he is still a wanted fugitive the FBI and authorities are still looking for
him because he is wanted for murder and other crimes how do you how does a Matthew
Gentile how do you get involved in this story how how did you become aware of Jason derck Brown his crimes
and and then you have to to write this you have to almost live in the mind of this individual or at least have him on
your mind for quite some time well first off it's a great question thank you for
asking me that Captain Nick um the way I became the story came to me was when I was between the ages of 10 and 14 uh
before I wanted to be a filmmaker I wanted to be an FBI agent so I used to have a habit of going on the FBI's top
10 most wanted list on their website and looking at it to see you know if I could
help them catch a fugitive for the reward money it was a foolish naive dream I had as a kid um I learned about
the top 10 list from watching the movie Silence of the Lambs and then it's less good squel Hannibal where they showed
the FBI to 10 list on a computer so my 10 year my 11-y old brain ran with that and we go on the list and look at the
fugitives and on the FBI top 10 list as you two know from your episode and your coverage on the FBI top 10 list that
there's a lot of there's a sea of pretty menacing mean faces you know you've got
woody buer Osama Bin Laden and quite sophisticated high level and high operating criminals and then you have on
that list this surfer dude from Southern California with spiky blonde hair who looks so much like Shawn Penn that as
I'm sure you know from what you've read about the case Shan Pen's body double was arrested twice in the Years Jason's
been missing so you know the first thing I think when anyone sees any image of Jason dererk Brown regardless of my film
or before it you know they think this guy you know it's always been there was always a little bit of that so his face
stood out to me age 14 uh when I I was 14 years old when the crime was committed he became a top 10 fugitive a
few years later in 2007 but I remembered his face on the on the fbi.gov site so cut to you know about 12 years later I
graduated from film school at AFI American Film Institute and you know I was lucky two short films I had made I
made a western and a film about a rockstar losing his hearing those two films were playing a lot over the
festival circuit I was getting a lot of attention for them and I was trying to figure out what would be my first
feature as a filmmaker and you that's kind of always the big thing when someone when you graduate film school or
you have a short film that does well as everyone says what's your feature and I was kicking around a couple different
ideas attached to various projects I've always liked films in the crime Thriller
drama space you know the movie that made me want to be a filmmaker is a classic true crime film talk Day Afternoon you
know I've read that when I was 12 and became obsessed with it my father showed it to me and I my mom bought me the
screenplay as a Hanukkah gift because they used to sell screenplays on Street stands in New York City and she saw me
eyeing and she bought it for me for $10 and that was the first time I read a script so for me I always love films
about anti-heroes um you know criminals you know for me like a lot of my kids might
age R into Pokemon and uh you know whatever it was at the time time for me it was gangsters conmen criminals that
was that was my that those are my Pokemon so you know I'm I'm out of school I'm figuring out what my next you
know what my first feature is going to be and I'm storyboarding for a shoot I was shooting a commercial at the time
and I'm I'm drawing on my images and whenever I storyboard I uh I always have something on in the background usually
it's a it's a true crime docu series of some kind and all of a sudden out of nowhere Jason's face popped onto my t
screen the same and I just all like you it had been 12 years since I'd maybe even thought of him or her you know but
it just it came rushing back I just saw and I was like that's weird and so I started watching it neglected my story
boards and I said to myself oh my God this guy is still missing he's still out there how what happened how did that and
so I became you know pretty enraptured and you know I have a mentor named Billy Ray who's a top screen writer he's
written films like Captain Phillips and the hunger Gam and a great great writer and great guy and he said to me like his
rule of if he should write a script is if I don't if I wake up thinking about the project that's the project I should
do it's a great barometer I think for any you know anyone in any field and I I couldn't stop thinking about this movie
I just you know watching the story about Jason but you see you know it goes back
to what we were talking about earlier for me the movie is as much about Jason Derek Brown as it is about the web and
the people who knew him and who loved him and you know that the ious lenses through which we see Jason throughout
the film so for me you know at first it was like okay cool this has a lot of elements of like a fun pulpy crime
Thriller you know an armored car Heist you know a con man I love conman stories but what ultimately became the emotional
engine for me and my way in as a filmmaker you know because to me American murder is a movie about family
that's the theme uh every movie to me as a theme in for American murder its family um but you know that came through
you know multiple rewrites and drafts and so you know basically the the process of how it went
about getting makes I'm assuming you from your question you want to know about that as well you know the the way
it came from an idea of okay here's this guy Jason Dereck Brown who interested me
when I wanted to be an FBI agent to how does this become a movie at first I began writing the script you know on
spec which means just you know on my own on my own time thinking maybe you know I
could try to sell the script because it felt ambitious for a firsttime director you know to do it's a big you a pretty
big movie for that but as I started writing it I just began to research the case you know I started I did begin
interviewing some people I'm not going to name exactly who because I don't want to out them but I did interview people
who knew Jason and were associated or Associates of Associates and I began to gather a lot of Intel and information in
addition to reading everything I could get my hands on that was out there which on this case there is a lot of stuff um
so I became pretty upset I resembled Jake janal's character in zodiac just want to know everything I could and then
I began to write a script um and you know the first versions of the script were actually like just really going
with Jason's point of view but what It ultimately became as the movie progressed was an ensemble film where
it's really about seeing Jason through all these various perspectives and you know we um you know at first the way the
thing that really got it going was I made proof of concept short of the film I shot one scene from it which was
actually the climactic squad Invasion um in the movie I did completely differently and I shot a you know five
minute scene we had this great actor Jonathan graph in it who was attached at the time and once that uh short went
around and his show mind Hunter dropped a lot of people were you know interested
in it and this company traveling picture show and G2 companies traveling picture
show ran by Kevin Madison Carissa Pell and GG films ran by Gio Walsh these three producers at various points in the
process came together and banded and they really backed me and supported me and really loved the script and were you
know it helped me develop it into something much better than it initially was and you know we came together and we
made this thing in the at the height of the pandemic so it was quite a journey but you know at the end of the day it
was really Jason's Story and it began by just seeing the image of his face on this top 10 list you know to really
trying to see him as a full fleshed out character um who I could talk a lot about and you were kind enough to send
us a screener so we've been able to view it before this our sitdown here today and of course the movie is about Jason
Derek Brown his crimes but it's also about his family and then his fugitive status so tell everybody about your you
know you did a lot of research on this guy and tell us about Jason Brown and what you learned about him in your
resch well Jason you know there's as I said earlier there's a lot written about him and part of the you know challenge
of making a true crime film I would consider my genre it's true crime but I do True Crime fiction meaning that this
is based on a true story there was a lot of research but also in the process of making a movie one you know a director
and screenwriter and actors too everybody has to take creative Liberties to make it you know work as a film um so
you know what's in there there's the line between fiction and Truth is quite blurry in a movie like this but you know
there was an extensive research process while I was writing the screenplay what I learned about Jason Derek Brown was
you know and a lot of this is in the film or vaguely covered in the film um you know is that he was a con man um you
know first and foremost that was his profession you know Jason was not a guy who liked to work a nin to-5 you know he
was somebody who you know would would come into a neighborhood with lots of toys Cadillacs BMWs you know and he
presented him himself really is like a rich frat guy you know um in a in a Suburban neighborhood and we show that
in the film as there's a relationship with his his land lady love interest played by Adina Manel and uh her son um
you know so he's he's somebody who had that Larger than Life personality would buy you a drink at the bar you know
would take you out you know it just was a lot of fun to be around that kind of charismatic guy you know of his crimes
were pretty Petty for the most part bank fraud things of that nature you know but
he was always basically traveling around place to place never staying one place for too long so that he could you know
stay off the trail of creditors and people who were on to him as his crimes escalated his his pet his Petty cons you
know he started to basically lose the ability to do it he he became desperate in his own mind and decided to rob an
armored truck and that became you know what was the central crime that put him on the FBI's top 10 list so you know his
upbringing which there is quite a bit written about and one of you know the craziest Mysteries of the movie is also
about how his father um who was a con man himself um you know the the background of Jason's interesting
because he actually came from very it looked like on Sur was a strict Mormon upbringing they were a Mormon family the
Browns but um Jason's father was a con man himself and had criminal ties and he his father disappeared off the grid in
1994 10 years before Jason did so there's a bit of an odd mystery around that in terms of the research process
there was a lot written about these characters you know which was my main source of information was from there
were a lot of documentaries made about them there were a lot of articles there was even a book at one point there's a
lot a couple books so there was a lot of information out there which you know I read a news and I like I said I did
interview people there's a couple of characters in the film who are what we call composite characters meaning
they're based on one or two folks some of whom were interview to give me as much information about Jason as possible
but then I ultimately take all that information of which there is a lot and there are some amazing true things that
happened that unfortunately can't make the movie I I find doing research extremely important one key part of my
research process I will can talk in death about was my um I have I was very lucky to work with a detective named
Adam Richardson who actually runs a podcast called uh the writer detectives Bureau writer detectives Bureau um he
consults a lot of screenwriters and directors in Hollywood and he actually I'm sure you guys are aware of the Jesse
James Hollywood case MH yes he actually was the detective who worked that case and I believe he arrested Jesse James
Hollywood if not had a key role in in getting him back here so he was he worked the case of Jesse James Hollywood
and he worked very closely with me and gave me a lot of incredible and valuable insight into the police procedural
process um because you know we were not able to consult with the FBI on the film
because the FBI it is an open case still um even though Jason was taken off the top 10 list it's the case is still open
Jason technically still is reported missing so you know it the FBI can't Co cooperate with filmmakers or authors on
a case on an open investigation but you know we were able to use the FBI in the film and all that but yeah this
detective Adam Richardson was phenomenal he really helped me you know make sure I
our process was interesting he read a couple drafts of a screenplay and after I consulted with him
I definitely made some things better and more accurate um but while I was even on
set shooting you know when we were staging the crime scene and all those elements I was showing at him you know I
was FaceTiming him from the set I couldn't have him there because it was Co and or the amount of people we could
have on set was limited but he was face on me for all the things like The swad Invasion you know to the car you know to
every police element in the script the the stake out and the uh storage units all those you know action set pieces
this gentleman adamon was very generous with this time and really helped me uh you know know as much about police
procedure as I could so that we were portraying it accurately and authentically as possible it's
interesting though too because I look at somebody like Jason Derek Brown and I I
cannot help but Wonder was it the divorce that spawned this kind of wild behavior that led into
a lot of criminal activity Petty leading up to this execution style murder or was it
his personality that led to his divorce or you know the the chicken or the egg we don't know what happened first or
what led to one thing led to another but yeah he has a very bizarre upbringing to
me almost you know raised by by a criminal like father but also goes off on this
missionary adventure and he's talked very highly of by a lot of people that were very close to him
and then he is accused of this execution style murder which I mean this is one of
the most coldblooded homicides that I can think of right like right Jason Derrick Brown
knew he was killing someone that day when he woke up and when he went to the AMC theater that day the thing the thing
that is so horrific about this to me is he didn't know the individual's name it didn't matter the individual's name it
didn't matter who that person was he was going to rob that armored car that day and he was going to flee and whoever
happened to be holding the bag was going to be catching bullets from Jason Derek
Brown and in your movie one thing that I want to give you big Kudos on here Matthew is I've read pretty detailed
descriptions of that crime right the way that it is in your movie I don't know that anybody could have done any better
of a job playing that out for the viewers I mean it I think you got it as accurate as you as one possibly could
well thank you for saying that you know and like I said you know just like what you guys do in making True Crime podcast
know research and authenticity is important you know and you want to capture it as authentically as possible
you know um yeah and that that you know there was a lot to research because it was a very it was actually a much more
sophisticated crime than it looked like you know because exactly it was very calculated um is the word I would use to
describe the whole thing you know he scoped out the right Alleyway he scoped out you know he knew what street he
could go and you know look um you know I as a filmmaker I find it's very I cannot
make a movie with passing judgment on any character I'm portraying you know whether it's the antagonist the
protagonist and in this case you know your antagonist is your protagonist in this movie um you know and on the record
what Jason did is a horrendous horrific act as you you know as you point it out you know for me the power of of film and
Cinema is that you can look at characters like Jason Derek Brown and put them under a light so you know you
could shine a light on a dark soul and ultimately try to you know without being sentimental move the audience to
understand who this person was I'm not saying like and I'm not saying feel 54 but help them see him for who he was
and what he meant to be because you're right this man did a really horrifying monstrous act he was also loved by many
people and so that's what the movie ultimately is grappling with is like you know are we capable of having you know
of moving an audience to a place of compassion understanding for someone who is a soul someone who's rotten to the
core and did something so heinous and so that's what I'm you know as a filmmaker
and I'm not saying you can and I'm not saying you can't I'm just asking the question with the movie so you know
that's what the that's the ultimate central question of like why you know when people ask me in interviews you why
do you want to make this film what made you want to tell the story and that was it for me you know was can you take
someone like Jason and and moving on and you look we grew up in the era at least my generation did of you
know the TV shows Breaking Bad in The Sopranos you know and you watch Tony Soprano and he's he's a monster he's a
sociopath but you kind of can't help love him a little and so or same with you know Walter White and Breaking Bad
so I I think you know film and TV is becoming more and more sophisticated in this way especially with all the shows
that are out there and and the books and and the True Crime boom that we live in
right now you know thankfully um you know in in this true crime boom it's it's asking the questions of why why did
someone do this and I think you know there's a lot to unpack with this character um I don't know if that
answered your question I think somebody like a Jason Brown lands on on this top 10 list from the FBI for a multitude of
reasons but I I personally believe that it's probably because the trail for the FBI on Brown went completely cold
because he's not placed on that list until three years after the crime part of it I think is the crime itself when
you really try to dissect the elements of that crime and the crime that he committed one robbing an armored car is
not common that not a common crime at all bank robbery is far more common than right robbing an armored car now you rob
an armored car and what you see traditionally typically in those types of crimes they are much more violent
than a bank heist bank heist the majority of them it's some guy passing a note to the teller that's the way that
the majority of them work most of these armored car robberies involve a high level of violence Ence and in this case
murder and Jason Brown ambushed this this gentleman this guy was a guy just like the three of us who woke up this
morning went off to their work went off to their job we want to do a good job we
want to knock it out of the park here today and but at the end of the day our number one goal is to go home to our
homes and to our families and this individual was not able to do so because of the the cold calculated mind mind of
somebody like Jason Brown I mean we're talking about Robert Keith palomarez who was only 24 years old did not even get a
chance to pull his firearm when he's attacked by Brown because Brown ambushes him Brown manages to get off six shots
he's at close enough range we're not talking about a highly skilled Marksman here we're talking about a guy that
ambushed and and snuck up on this guy and and the closer he got the faster he was pulling that trip Trigger he hits
palomarez six five out of six shots hit above the neck on our victim and that's because Brown knows that that he is
going to be wearing bulletproof vest and he's going to go for parts on the the wouldbe victim that cannot be covered
cannot be protected this unfortunately this individual didn't stand a chance he he didn't have a chance there was no
fight because he was ambushed by Brown and then Brown this is how cold he is ice cold he he has to walk up to the
body and Pull and tug on the money bag to get it out of to pry it from the fingers of our
victim here to the point that he drops the bag he drops the gun and then he picks both of them up before before he
fleas but I and I think I think when you really kind of dissect this crime and there's a lot of thought put into it
there has to be it's so calculated you examine the mind in the personality of the type of criminal that would carry
out this type of crime and you see just how dangerous this person is to the general
public as a whole because he does not think of people the way that you and I think of people he does not think of
life or this Earth the way that the rest of us do he sees this as a grid as a giant chessboard and there's a lot of
Pawns out there and as far as he's concerned there's very few Kings Knights and queens and
he's one of the kings in his own mind and the rest of us are just fod we're we're we're pawns to be dismissed to be
done away with so that he can keep going and that and that always makes him dangerous and then on top of that while
he's on the run that makes him extremely dangerous as well because we've seen what he he will resort to in this
situation and now that he's On The Run who knows what he's capable of yeah it definitely makes Jason Derek Brown a
very dangerous individual and people that think they might know where he's at should be very careful and contact law
enforcement immediately the one thing that the film doesn't get into dive into too much but I did want to get your
opinion on because you you you were you were busy writing and exploring this man
and his crimes and his in his personal life for such a long period of time you know one thing that a couple things that
he did that were very interesting I thought while he was on the run at first the police and the FBI even though they
knew who who had committed this crime they didn't come out and publicly announce that because they thought that
the The Manhunt would change there would be a giant shift in The Manhunt and in Jason's actions and
behaviors based off of the fact that he is under the assumption that nobody knows that he did this he may know that
people are looking for him or he knows he's on the run but for a period of time he doesn't know that they know that he's
the one that committed this crime at some point they have to publicly announce that and I think it was about a
month or so after um the crime was committed and then a few years later he his name is added to this 10 most wanted
list but well actually just to um just a little correction there so what what actually happened was in no so the
murder was committed November 29th and they figured it out quite fast uh because of the fingerprint left on the
bike they knew it was Jason or they knew Jason was at least very much involved right on December 6th I believe Jason
was staying at his sister's house and the Phoenix police did have a press conference where they released Jason's
image from taken from the gun store which became his top 10 fugitive image and that was put on TV and somebody
nobody knows who called or let Jason know that they were looking for him and that was how he was able to get out
before the police and FBI stormed his sister's house so he was aware that he was one and that's part of how he was
able to get away and then he actually drove his car down to allegedly down to San
Diego um they thought he was going to go across the border and then he apparently
got because they he swiped his credit card at a gas station near the San Diego Mexico border and then allegedly though
did not cross they had apbs out for him and disappeared Into The Ether and they found his car in Portland Oregon now
nobody knows if he actually went to Portland Oregon right he could have not yeah that's another one of the many many
Unsolved Mysteries you know he could have paid somebody to send the carb to Portland but um
you know but that's so that's just you know something to keep in mind was they did they did release um to the press
that was considered I think by many people to be a huge mistake to release his image to the Press when they did but
you know they had their Reasons I'm sure and that's uh that's that but yeah obviously we can only track so much of
his movements uh if we could track them all we wouldn't be having this conversation right right yeah
interesting to me I goes down to San Diego gives the impression that he might be headed for Mexico and then
finding and then some trace of him in Portland Oregon gives the impression of maybe he's going the other route to
Canada right you know it's like you know he's a con man you know that's who Jason
is at the core to me always was a con artist how do con artists get you they prey on one's confidence right so you
know I think he you know was and look he was also coached in the art of Disappearing you know part of you know
the storyline with his father is that he would you know they the father who used
to say to the kids apparently growing up if I if I'm gone for more than you know
two hours or 48 Hours get rid of everything so you know this was someone who knew how to you know probably work
under the black mark criminal Market get fake IDs whatever you needed to get on out and and disappear you know
so it was pretty he was pretty sophisticated in that way as a criminal and then he's remarkably unsophisticated
in other ways as a criminal so I think what again makes him so interesting I don't want to back you into the corner
here Matthew but uh where do you think back I'll get out where where do you think he where do you think he is you
know we had in the production office of the movie we had a running list on the window of all the places he might be um
you know for a while I I have thought he was out of the country that was always my guess during the writing of the film
I think there's a very good chance he's not alive anymore I think that's highly possible I don't know if that's true but
I think that could be the case if he is and he's still running my guesses somewhere either in like Australia or
southeast Asia would be my would be my best not you know I guess somewhat educated guess but it's a big mystery
but I don't think he could be in the country I me he was allegedly spotted in Salt Lake City in 2008 where we filmed
the movie and that was an area where he had tremendous ties to was City so I there were people on our crew who knew
him uh who who were very close to people who knew him there was you know he but he had Ser you know when we were
scouting pawn shops and gun stores for the movie there were people who would ask about be like oh yeah I knew I knew
Jason Dereck Brown um so there were you know he he he had a lot of ties um to many different areas you know he also
Jason's fluid in French I think he also speaks spoke Spanish so you know that's a lot of the world that he could get
through well and so you say if he is in your opinion if he's still alive probably outside of the
country somewhere if he's not still alive what's your speculation there are we do we think because his attitude his
personality to me does not in any shape or form suggest suicide right me neither what I what I
think could be a possibility here if he's not still around would be look you can only con so many people
until until you con the wrong person and retribution takes place right um right and that that's kind of where where my
my thoughts go to but I mean he might not be on the top 10 list anymore but there's still a $200,000
reward out for right his for his capture and that's a lot more money than what he
made off in his armored car Heist right well that's the other thing you know people say a lot is
you know $60,000 isn't that much money so how did he get out and go about how did he disappear like that's not a ton
of money you know it's not like in Breaking Bad when Walter White has all that money to go disappear or you know
Bob Odenkirk right better you know s Goodman has all that money to disappear this is a different scenario so yeah you
know there there's endless speculation on where he can be and you know to be honest you know I got
like I don't feel backed into a corner by that question at all I think it's a totally legit question that I've been
asked before you know but I never really it's never been something that's been that much on my mind you know as a
filmmaker I you know felt like but for me the movie ends when he's gone you know and that's it and that's kind of
where the story ends you know I would be of course if someone updated me and told
me where he was or what actually happened I definitely be interested to hear but you know the film wasn't so
much about that to me cuz look even though and now maybe maybe we call this a spoiler section so for your listeners
if you haven't seen the movie maybe watch it before you listen to this very small part of the interview you know
maybe like for me the movie is about a loss of humanity in a human as well this this man really eroded his own Humanity
to get this money and he by the end of the film yes he does get away with the crime in theory what kind of life is
that you know he's he he can never talk to anyone he knows or loves again he has
to disappear he has to you know he can't go out much right he has to kind of stay
you know so it's like at the end of the day this man like has disappeared and it's is as
if he is dead you know the act of him sending a box of all of his things to his sister you know is in a way saying
goodbye forever Jason Derek Brown as far as you know him no longer exists right he's like erased his own identity pretty
much so you know while it is definitely not you know it's a it is a tragic ending and I think it's a tragic film
you the film is tragedy at at the core in terms of what how the story line plays out so yes he does get away but
this is this is no happy ending right for anybody involved and I think that he um he
[Music] disappeared is good is [Music] yeah want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage joining us every
week make sure you subscribe to the podcast one of the perks of having a true crime podcast is we got to watch
the screener of American murderer and that's this week's recommendation yes you can find that recommendation and
many more on our recommended page on our website true Crim garage.com go see American murderer it's
in Select theaters now or if you want to stay home and watch it on the comfort of
your own couch it is available on demand streaming on demand as well that's American murderer thank you to Matthew
Gentile for joining us this week in the garage and check us out again next week same bat Time same bat Channel until
then be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] look Shopify is the global Commerce platform
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American Murderer /// Part 2 /// 624

Part 2 of 2

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This week in the Garage we take another look at a Wanted Fugitive case. Jason Derek Brown has been on the run from the F.B.I. and the Phoenix Police now for almost 18 years. Currently Jason Derek Brown is 53 years of age. He is wanted for Unlawful flight to avoid prosecution, 1st degree murder and Armed robbery. Jason Brown is described as 5 foot 10 inches tall and 170 to 180 lbs. He is caucasian, with blond hair and green eyes. He speaks French fluently.

He is believed to be using aliases that include Jason D. Brown, Derek Brown, Greg Johnson, Harline Johnson, Greg Harline Johnson, John Brown and Jay Brown. Authorities urge citizens not to engage with him but call for help immediately. Jason is wanted for 1st degree murder and should be considered armed and extremely dangerous at all times.

If you have any information concerning Jason Derek Brown, please contact the FBI's Toll-Free tipline at 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324). You may also contact your local FBI office (http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field/) , the nearest American Embassy or Consulate (http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/legat/) , or you can submit a tip online at tips.fbi.gov (https://tips.fbi.gov/) .

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Brief Summary

Jason Derek Brown, a fugitive since 2004, is discussed along with the film "American Murder" by director Matthew Gentile.

Key points

Matthew Gentile's Film. Director Matthew Gentile discusses his film 'American Murder,' based on Jason Derrick Brown's story.
The Elusive Jason Derrick Brown. FBI and Arizona police are still searching for Jason Derrick Brown, wanted for a 2004 homicide.
True Crime Garage's Impact. The podcast's previous coverage may have contributed to the apprehension of fugitives.
The Face That Haunts. After years, a filmmaker sees Jason's face again and is drawn back into his story.
The Emotional Engine. The film delves into family themes intertwined with crime and the fugitive's life.
The Complexity of Crime. Exploring Jason Derek Brown's life reveals a blend of charisma and criminality.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and good to see you.

Nick's greeting to the audience.

1:55WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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