What the Neighbors Saw | Full Episode + Post Mortem | Forensic Files

As a career detective, this case is very unique. Little did I know that this would lead
to one of the most fascinating cold case homicides that I'd ever been a part of.
How did this case begin for you? So, on December 3rd of 2017, the Sheriff's Department received a 911
call from a homeowner reporting that their family dog brought back a human skull.
It came back with a human skull. Yes. And it had an obvious gunshot wound to the
back of the head. We kind of organized a grid search and within minutes located the clandestine grave right off in this
area. So, Peter, this is the area right up here. Sure. I'll follow you. Now, this is quite a thicket, isn't it?
It's a little thicket. If you see this little indentation in the soil right here, that's where the
skeletal remains were found. We had a very circumstantial case. We literally have human bones, human
remains, uh with a gunshot wound to the head, and at that point, is this a murder? Is this
a suicide? We have a model of a human skull. Can you show us where that wound was? It's pretty much uh towards the
back rear of the skull. When you look at these scattered bones, are they telling you a story?
Yes, it tells me that it's most likely the story of murder. We were reviewing missing persons cases
throughout the Midwest, but nothing was definitive to who this victim was. When the cases come to the DNA Doe
Project, everything's already been exhausted. Genetic genealogy is the last resort.
So, we use the DNA to look at the matches, and we can build family trees that way and figure out the identities
of people. In this case, that person is Gary Albert Herpst. The victim, Gary, was from Scott County,
Minnesota. We located the home where Gary had last lived. Some of the neighbors who still lived in
the neighborhood had reported some remembering some activity uh back in 2013 that they found
suspicious. It's pouring down rain. It's probably 11:30 at night. It's pitch black dark.
Something catches your eye across at the Herpst house. Chad, what do you see? I see the neighbors scrubbing the floors.
I see them scrubbing the walls. We saw them bringing out black garbage bags. They eventually brought out a
rolled-up carpet. I didn't know what I was looking at. I had no idea. And I turned to Chad, and I was like,
"What is going on?" And Chad looked at me, and he said, "Kaya, I think they finally killed him."
It was in June of 2020 when Linda Dane learned the disturbing circumstances of how her long-lost brother Gary's skull
had been found by a dog in rural Barron County, Wisconsin. Yeah, it's kind of a eerie type thing to think of,
but it still led to finding out what happened, the truth. Linda says Gary, who was 57 when he went
missing, was a loner with a difficult personality who rarely saw his own extended family, which is why pictures
that exist of him are from his younger years, seen here with his wife, Connie. He could be stubborn. He could be
crabby. It had been years since Linda and Gary had spoken, and in 2013, she learned from Connie that he had
vanished, walking out on her and their son, Austin, seen here as a teenager. What did you think of that?
>> I was shocked. I I didn't know what to think. Linda says she found it strange
that Connie had not reported his disappearance to police. And it's like, "Okay. Uh did you file a missing
person's report? Did you report it? Did you do anything?" And they did nothing. What was her reason for not reporting
that her husband was missing? She didn't give us a reason. At Linda and her family's urging, Connie
filed this missing person's report with the Elko New Market Police Department in
Minnesota, where the Herpsts lived. In the report, Connie said Gary grabbed a suitcase and left in an older gray
Honda vehicle, but she claimed she did not get a look at who was driving. Six years would pass before an
investigative genetic genealogist, Robin Espinson, would be able to construct a family tree that led to identifying the
skull. We knew that we had found the identity of our Doe as Gary Albert Herpst. Gary Herpst was originally born in North
Central Wisconsin. We located family members of his in South Central Minnesota. That's when Detective Jeff Nelson from
the Barron County Sheriff's Office tracked down Austin and Connie at the retirement community where they both
worked. I think it was a little bit of a of a surprise to them because we actually found out that both Connie
Herpst and her son, Austin, worked at a nursing home. We basically walked in unannounced and
met with both Connie and Austin. When you told Connie that you had found her missing husband, likely had found
him, was she excited about the news, or was she stoic about it? Both of them were very stoic.
Never never even commented, "Well, at least we we know it's him." Uh it it's like it it they just glossed
over it. Brent Peterson, a special agent with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, joined Jeff Nelson to
interview Connie. She was not uncooperative. She was just trying to be helpful. Um
at least that was the appearance. Did you get into the issue about why she didn't report her husband
uh as being missing? Yeah, that that was um a red flag from the beginning. Here's
Connie's answer about why she didn't report it. Oh, okay. >> He just left on his own. I said I didn't
think I had to. Connie told investigators she wasn't surprised Gary walked out on them because he had a
troubled lifestyle. She described Gary as a drug user. He would use drugs and spend all their money. He just was
described to us as just being a generally kind of a volatile, angry, unpleasant person. How was he with
Austin? Um Austin till the age of 10, great. But at the age of 10, when Gary would start his
yelling and screaming at me, Yeah. Austin would step in between. Okay. >> "Don't you yell at my mom."
Did he ever hit you in the 30-plus years you guys were married? Once or twice. Yeah.
One time he hit me pretty hard and black and blue in my shoulder. The other time he actually hit me, he
pushed me and broke my toe. In his interview, Austin told investigators his father had become
enraged the day he left, and later learned he had stolen $5,000 in cash and his mother's wedding ring. I heard him
banging around in the master bedroom. I'm like, "Okay, what's going on?" Looked in, he was packing a suitcase.
He's like, "I'm leaving." And yeah, he got in, some guy pulled up, picked him up. Connie told investigators she was at
the library that day and remembered getting a frantic call from her son. He was, "Dad left. Dad left. He got in a
vehicle with somebody." Investigators soon realized that Connie may have lied to them. Why? Because in
her missing person's report, Connie had said she was home when Gary walked out. We're suspicious of their stories right
away. So, there's a lot of things that didn't match up. Connie added to investigators' suspicions when she gave
yet another new detail. The .40 caliber gun was gone. And that was my Connie had never mentioned Gary had
stolen her gun when she first reported him missing. So, there's a lot of oddities that she's
telling Had she said something in your mind that was particularly incriminating?
I wouldn't say incriminating, but I strongly felt she had certainly knowledge of his murder. I
figured she had some form of involvement. So, investigators redoubled their efforts to try to learn more. So,
there's a lot of working pieces going on. Several months passed before investigators were ready to interview
Connie and Austin a second time. This time, they dug deeper into Connie's claims of abuse.
So, I you know, your mom talked of some abuse issues in the family. Uh uh I knew you were very protective of her.
Yeah. Can you elaborate? I we understand that. But, it was more the fact that I hated when he would sit
there and yell at her and it would upset her. And the more investigators questioned
Austin, the more he began to blame his father for his own demise. Yeah, he was an angry guy and stuff, but I never
expected that it'd get to the point that someone would want to kill him. Directing attention toward a mysterious
man with tattoos, he says his father drove away with. Do you remember a guy with a black shirt, tattoos?
That's about it. That's as far as I can get and then I got a really uneasy sense
about it. That was it. Gary Herps went missing in 2013. A dog found his skull in 2017.
And by June of 2020, investigators suspected his own family, his wife Connie and son Austin Herps, were
somehow involved in Gary's disappearance and murder. There's some some follow-up
questions and information we we need to gather to try to piece all this together.
And during their second interview, they consented to a polygraph. The investigators from Wisconsin had
arranged with the FBI. They both agreed to take polygraphs. Lie detector tests are generally not admissible in court,
but investigators will use them as a tool to judge an individual's credibility. What were the results? Connie did not
show any signs of deception, but Austin did. An investigator from the FBI confronted Austin. So,
I'm I'm very convinced that you clearly know what happened. I don't. I'm telling you Austin,
you can't walk away here saying you don't know anything because you clearly know something.
No. Whatever it is, you got to tell me. I suspected that the guy in the truck wasn't exactly
friendly. I just the look I got from him was a little sketchy. Either you're involved with your mom
in killing your father or you're involved with someone else in killing your father. I'm not involved with it.
I'm just going to tell you that saying my mom's involved with that is pretty out of this world. Detectives say
Austin continued to draw the investigators' attention toward the man with tattoos he says picked up his
father that day. Tell me what Describe what you're talking about when you talk about the look of him. Tats
came out with a black Asian. That was all red belt. That doesn't make sense. None of this makes sense.
The first interview, he recalls his dad getting into a vehicle and leaving. Then
that changed to he remembered some heavily tattooed man that looked, in his words, to be some sort of criminal
that was the driver of the vehicle that his dad got into. So, the story changed and morphed each time you talked with
him. Investigators suspected Austin's story was pure fiction. I just find way too
many inconsistencies in your stories. I mean, with your story, with your mom's story.
And did you feel that the story was rehearsed? Certainly. That he was trying to recall
a script. Script. But, a feeling isn't evidence and investigators had no choice but to let
Connie and Austin go. Next, they headed to the family's old neighborhood and former home.
Ironically, to a T, all the neighbors remembered Gary very well. Detective Nelson says that to a person, they
described Gary as a mean, horrible human being. We repeatedly heard the term the
biggest that you'll ever meet. If he was mad at a neighbor, apparently he had a pipe
organ and he would set up big speakers in the windows and he would blast pipe organ music into the neighbor's house.
In the wintertime, when he would get mad at a neighbor, he would take a snow blower over and purposely blow and fill
people's yards up in the middle of the night. With snow? With snow. He was just a
evil person. Neighbors Kaya and Chad Kramel's house was right behind the Herps house.
They say Gary often yelled at their two daughters and was caught secretly recording them on video.
I looked in in their back window, you could see the red light from the camera on. And I walked out there and I could
see the camera and Gary behind the camera. >> video camera. Video camera, like camcorder.
And he was just staring at me blatantly, like on purpose, wanting to you know, almost show me up and be like,
"Yeah, I'm recording." And I sat there and I was raising my head like, "Are you kidding me?" Chad filed an incident
report with police. It sounds like this has a psychological component to it, like he was messing with your mind.
>> Absolutely. I feel like he wanted power and he wanted everyone to know that he
had that power. He most definitely tried to exercise that power by messing with people, neighbors.
Another neighbor, Jason Grimm, says he experienced that first hand when Gary complained about the time he was snow
blowing. He came out and uh started screaming and shouting at me, telling me I was going
to going to flood his his basement. >> Did you feel like he was a little dangerous? I never feared him just
purely because it was all bark, no bite. Did you feel he was a dangerous man? Absolutely. And did you the same way?
Absolutely. And when investigators interviewed Dee Hamlin, the new owner of the house where
Gary and his family lived, they learned something that would confirm their suspicions about Connie and Austin. Over
in this area right here, before the closets were put in, somewhere over here, there was a big red stain.
When investigators canvassed Gary Herps' old neighborhood, they uncovered a trove
of new clues from the time around his disappearance. People didn't like him, were afraid
because he was very confrontational. Neighbors Chad and Kaya Kramel recalled a storm. Thunder, lightning, everything.
Like it was crazy. And unusual activity in Gary's backyard. It was maybe midnight-ish and we looked
out the window. I see a truck backed in the backyard. The truck was pulled right up to the sliding glass
door, which we knew was super strange because Gary was very particular with his yard. He did not like anything out
of order. Chad and Kaya told investigators they remembered seeing Austin and Connie
scrubbing the floors in the middle of the night. You could see directly from those windows into their house.
Absolutely. And loading large garbage bags into Gary's truck. They were also carrying out a carpet or
some sort of rug and also throwing it in the back of the truck. So, we were watching the scene and I turned to Chad
and I was like, "What is going on?" And Chad looked at me and he said, "Kaya, I think they finally killed him."
And did the two of you ever think what we should share what we've witnessed with the police? Absolutely not. No, and
as a matter of fact, he was horrible. And soon after that night, they say Connie and Austin seemed completely
different. It was good. It was fun to see them actually happy. A few weeks later, their neighbors saw
them setting up a yard sale. So, everybody started filtering over there, myself included, and we were looking at
all of the things that they had for sale. And what was for sale? Men's clothing, men's shoes,
um there were tools, ammo boxes. Now, did you ask her, "Where's Gary?" Yes. And the answer was
that he didn't want to be married anymore and he left. Jason says he scored a bargain. I did. Bought a riding
lawn tractor. Neighbors say Austin and Connie began happily walking the neighborhood offering up baked cookies.
And do you think his disappearance in some ways liberated their lives? Absolutely.
Their steps were lighter. It was nice not to have him around. All of a sudden, Connie and Austin, they
would be out in the yard stopping and greeting people, where none of that happened prior to the date that Gary
allegedly left. The next break in the case came when investigators obtained a search warrant
for the former Herpst house and notified the new owner, Dee Hamlin, that they would be bringing in a cadaver dog along
with her handler, police officer Dan Moldenhauer, to see if she could detect the scent of human remains. So, this
officer said there may have been someone killed inside the house and they wanted
a dog to come in to see if they picked up any odor of death. >> I go, "Absolutely."
When you got that call and you brought Radar out here, this is the very house you came to, correct?
>> Correct. Radar is the cadaver dog who searched Dee's house. She came back to the scene along with
her handler to show us what she did that day. Well, Radar wants to get inside, I'll
tell you. Yep, and I follow her. I was present when the dog originally came in. I was there for the first sniff
around. Hamlin says something in the garage caught Radar's attention. Radar concentrated heavily against this wall
and on the brick um behind the drywall pieces and the boxes. Radar, find it. Radar's search continued inside the
house. Radar would um run from space to space and room to room and almost like he had a pattern. And then we went
downstairs and that's where he slowed down. According to Radar's handler, the dog
detected the odor of human remains around that red stain Dee had seen. She went straight to this room, ignored
every other thing else, came back, went along the wall and then came to the corner where that closet door is. That
wasn't the only area that Radar was interested in. She had a lot of odor here. I mean, she checked all the walls
before she came back and and sat. So, there was definitely a a presence of some sort of material, um the guess is
blood, around this sliding door. Yes. Crime scene investigators tested the spots with Luminol, which indicated the
presence of blood in the areas where the cadaver dog alerted. When you have the Luminol literally lighting up, what is
it suggesting to you? Well, it's certainly consistent and corroborates what the neighbor saw. We
believe Gary was most likely murdered inside that particular house. That's when they called Connie and Austin in
for a third interview. So, we went to your old house. My way or your way? And just had a look. Trying to piece
together Gary's kind of last movements. And um there was some blood Okay. Connie said Gary, who
was a machinist, often worked on projects and sometimes accidentally cut himself.
Usually it was his fingers. This blood that we're finding um is a bit more significant than just a little cut on
the finger. Oh, yeah, that I wouldn't know. Investigators also questioned Connie about what the neighbors reported
seeing. Some witnesses saw what they thought was a rolled-up rug being loaded in the back of the pickup. Um
no. I don't know. We didn't have any carpet. Just up in the living room. Her body
language was to me was like she was defeated. Phil Narocki, a captain with the Scott County Sheriff's Office, was
also present at the interrogation. Like, as long as I can continue to deny everything, I'm going to be okay.
Um but she didn't get rattled. Very soft-spoken. Did she sense she was in real trouble,
do you think? Yes. I think she knew at that point that all the evidence was starting to gather up
uh against her and Austin. Investigators continued to press Connie. So, it sounds like
Gary was a little psychologically abusive with you guys. Yeah. What about physical abuse? One time he
um well, he hit me. Yeah. Not that I didn't probably deserve it cuz I got pushed too far. For Austin's
interview, cameras were rolling as he was grilled by Detective Jeff Nelson. Do you feel that he was the husband that he
should have been to your mother? No. And you stepped in and intervened in several times, did you not? Yeah. Okay.
You became her protector. Yeah. Okay. Which I would have to believe culminated in July of 2013 when you took action
to protect your mom. Did you pull the trigger and put the round in the back of your father's head?
But no matter how many times Austin was asked that question, he never answered it.
Once again, Connie and Austin were allowed to leave the police station. And that was a strategic plan that we had
come up with knowing full well that if we needed to arrest them, we'd be able to find them later. Now, investigators
believed they had enough evidence to bring the case to prosecutors. There was some reluctance. There was no
confession. It's simply a circumstantial case. Albeit we felt it was a very good
one. And on November 19th, 2020, around 7:00 a.m., Connie, then 62 years old, and
Austin, 26, were taken into custody. I tell Austin that he is under arrest for the murder of his father.
The two would eventually be charged with second-degree murder. Connie had already
declined the final interview with us and had been taken away to the jail. But this time, Austin was ready to explain
everything to investigators. Do you remember where you shot him? Yeah. And later to 48 Hours.
And what do you do with his body? I sling him over my shoulder and I walk into the forest.
Was it you or your mom that pulled the trigger? For more than 4 hours, Austin Herpst was
grilled about his role in his father's murder. What's it going to be, Austin? Was it you or your mom?
Did you get the gun, Austin? Yes or no? Is that fair to say that you think that you protected her and you feel that you
protected her that day? Yes or no? Finally, Austin broke. He said something to the effect of,
"I might as well tell you what I did." I said, "Austin, that's what we've been asking for."
On that day when my mom came home, he flew off the handle, so I grabbed the gun out of the phone.
Austin would tell investigators all about what happened that day. And now, for the first time, he is sharing his
story with 48 Hours. My father, Gary Herpst, was vindictive to an extreme that I have never
seen in anybody else. He was cruel. He was petty. He was violent. Did you reach an age in
which you came to fear your father or you felt like you were walking on eggshells? Very early. Uh I'd say by 6,
7 years old that fear was present. Austin says the emotional road he traveled that led to killing his own
father was filled with acts of violence and abuse beginning when he was a boy. Details he didn't share in earlier
interviews with investigators. He proceeded to put a cigarette out on my arm and I screamed and cried and ran
and I did something wrong, picked me up by my throat and threw me like down a flight of stairs.
Austin says his mother was treated even more brutally. Terribly. Unbelievably so. Physical
abuse on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. Uh always demeaning, always negative. Did you ever see a time in which he drew
blood from your mother from striking her? Yes. He punched her right in the face. Pure black and blue the next day.
She had blood leaking from her mouth. Psychological abuse, physical abuse. Yeah.
You swear on everything you believe in and you're telling me the truth. >> Absolutely.
Austin, just 19 years old when he murdered his father, recalls that tragic day, July 8th, 2013.
The start of the day seemed very normal to me. Austin remembers playing video games that afternoon when his dad
returned home from work. Had he been drinking that day? Yeah. He drank regularly. Around about, I'd say,
I think it was like 2:00 or 3:00, my mom came home and she and him got into an argument about
money. There was yelling. I tried my best to protect her. I am a wall. I will not let this
continue. Austin says his mom went to the public library. My father at this point was
laying on the couch half asleep. And as I walked out, I noticed that that skirting was like crumpled up. I lifted
up the skirting and I saw the firearm. It's a pistol. Yes. Austin says his father had never brought
a gun into the living room before. In my heart of hearts, I knew that my mother's life was in danger and by
extension my own. It all just culminated like, "Oh my god, he's going to kill her."
All these thoughts ran through my head almost instantaneously. And I reached underneath the couch. I
grabbed the gun. I pointed it at him and I pulled the trigger. You know, it it was surreal almost,
right? Like the bang went off. My hearing popped and it was just immediately There was almost
like a numbness. I've never asked this question, you know, in my years on 48 Hours.
What was it like to pick up that pistol, point it at your father's head and pull the trigger?
It broke me. It It changed who I am irrevocably. I can never be the person I was or even
the person I would have become had that never happened. But that moment, are you anguished over what you
had done? Are you horrified? I There was a level of relief knowing that I would never again have to have
that fear. Having to worry about my mother's life, having to worry about my life.
>> Austin says he called his mother at the library and told her to come home. And how does your mom react to this
scene? Uh sort of the same way I did. Sort of just stunned. Austin says he placed his
father's body, wrapped in a rug, in the trunk of their car. They drove into neighboring Wisconsin.
What are you and your mom talking about? We aren't. At that point, the you know, the
adrenaline's still rushing. It's still fear. About 2 hours later, Austin and his mom
pulled onto a field next to a patch of trees. He says they dumped Gary's body at this
spot and then fled. I figured that wildlife would take care of the rest. What do you mean wildlife take care of
the Bears, foxes, they would devour the body, the bones would be scattered, nobody would know.
That seems a bit barbaric. Absolutely. I was not in the state of mind that I ever want to revisit.
I was at the lowest I'd ever been. Both in my emotions and in my humanity. We do have information that he was not a
pleasant person to be around, but being an unpleasant person does not rise to the level of being a domestic abuser.
With no evidence Austin acted in self-defense. Prosecutors Mike Grow and Sarah Windorff said Austin and Connie
would be charged with second-degree murder. What Austin described as happening was not an emergency
situation. It did not rise to a self-defense offense. Your life while he was sleeping
there on the couch was not under imminent threat. You didn't have to shoot him. This wasn't
legally self-defense. This was murder. Correct. And as prosecutors prepared for trial,
they questioned whether there was more to Connie's role in Gary's killing than Austin had admitted. Do you at times
wonder to yourself, could Connie have pulled that trigger? As prosecutor, of course, I wonder about that.
I shot my father because if I hadn't, I would have been dead. My mother would have been dead.
What are the options that his son could have done other than kill Gary? He could have grabbed the gun and
left the house and told the police what had been going on. Prosecutor Mike Grow.
All of those things are possible and uh very doable except shooting him in the head, which is the last thing that a
civilized person would supposedly do. Once Austin Herbs confessed to killing his father, he agreed to plead guilty to
second-degree murder. It was what we call a straight plea, which means there was no promises made by the state as to
what you would get. Connie Herbs pleaded guilty to aiding an offender, accomplice
after the fact. Austin said, "Yes, I was the one that killed my dad." And then that's when we decided Connie would be
charged with the aiding an offender after the fact. Without a trial, prosecutor Sarah
Windorff says there were many unanswered questions about Austin and Connie's claims of physical abuse. We have never
seen any information to suggest that there was any abuse um that Gary had committed against Austin or his wife.
They never said anything until they were in trouble and then they told these reasons why they were abused. The
prosecutors in this case say, "Well, there's no real evidence that any of this happened." Of course. And
I can't I can't refute that. I can't refute that there is no evidence that occurred. It is all hearsay. Austin told
48 Hours he and his mom had never reported abuse to the police, friends, or extended family members because they
feared for their lives at the hands of Gary. As I've been told, "If you try to have me arrested, if you try to flee, if
you try to, you know, go your own way, I will find you and kill you." Another question for prosecutors
involves Connie's whereabouts on the day of the murder. You said that your mom was at the
library at the time that your father was shot, correct? The prosecutors say investigators were
never able to find evidence that that's true, that she was there. And they wonder if your mother
was the one who killed your father and that you, as her protector, have told a story where you're taking
the responsibility for something that she did. My mom would never allow me to take a fall like that
if she had done that. And I need to ask you that question. Did your mother, Connie,
shoot and kill your father? I'm telling you right now on everything I hold dear.
My mother did not shoot my father. Prosecutors said a potential motive for Gary's murder was hate, illustrated by
how Austin left his father's corpse in these woods to be eaten. That is inhuman and that is barbaric.
Inhumanity that at the time seemed to have left Austin overjoyed. I experienced more happiness
afterwards than I had for my entire 18 years of living with him. You're having cookies with the neighbors
while your father's corpse is being eaten by animals. Yeah. It was It was a strange dichotomy. It
actually brought me a sense of almost shame that my happiness is on the on the feet of
the ultimate act of violence. It still makes me wonder what kind of person I am that that could have
happened. At Austin Herbs' June 2021 sentencing hearing at the Scott County District
Court in Minnesota, prosecutors asked that he be sentenced to 30 years in prison.
I made it clear to the judge that he deserved the uh highest sentence because of the callous way that he was killed
and the body was treated. But Judge Carolyn Lennon said she found Austin's claims believable. In her ruling, she
said, "I find it credible that you believed that he was going to kill your mom." And later said Austin felt an
underlying obligation to protect his mother. He was sentenced to 12 years, 6 months
and will be eligible for release in 2029. It's horrendous because if we allow that
kind of justice to go, uh nobody's safe because they'll say that I have been abused, that's why I did this.
Gary Herb's sister, Linda, seemed a bit overwhelmed. 12 and 1/2. That does not seem
very relevant to someone's life. It seems very very light. 8 months later, Connie Herbs was back in court for her
sentencing. We also recommended for Connie um the highest end of the guideline sentence,
which was 57 months. That would have been almost 5 years in prison. Yes. But the judge decided Connie would get 2
years and 3 months. Under Minnesota sentencing guidelines, she served just 3 months behind bars and
was released in May of 2022. I think that he was psychotic. And back in the small town of Elko New
Market, Minnesota, where the murder took place, a few of Gary Herb's former neighbors had hoped Austin and his
mother, Connie, wouldn't do any hard time for eliminating a man they considered a monster.
I felt sad because I didn't really want them to be caught. I don't feel that they were a
danger to society. Jason Grimm even had a message for Austin. I hope he's doing well and when he gets out, please look
us up. I'd like to help him in any way I can. Really? Yeah. Do you feel in a way though he got a 12
and a half year sentence? Was that too much? I think it's a little bit excessive.
Hopefully he can pick up the pieces and move on with his life. Do you believe that what you did was justified?
I believe that there are a lot of reasons why the act was justifiable. So under the same circumstances
you would still shoot him again. I believe so. And when you get out what do you want people to know about
whether you will be a potential danger to society or a contributor to society? My only goal in life is to leave
something behind that's worth remembering. This isn't it. This isn't it. I want to leave behind a legacy
other than I killed my father. Welcome to Postmortem. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales filling in
today for Anne Marie Green and today we are discussing the case of Gary Herpst who was reported missing by his wife in
2014. Three years later a dog discovered his skull in rural Wisconsin with a gunshot
wound in the back of the head. Joining me today to discuss this fascinating report is 48 Hours correspondent Peter
Van Zandt. Thanks for joining us Peter. Hey Natalie, how are you? I'm good, thank you. And this one really
was riveting. Absolutely. And the notion that this man in in rural Wisconsin, he
goes out, sees his dog gnawing on something in the driveway, comes up and checks it out and sees a human skull and
calls police. It was just incredible. Now Peter, this hour also features your exclusive interview with a convicted
killer and it And this is one of the most revealing conversations about a murder that I've heard here on 48 Hours.
Yeah, over the years I was trying to add it up. I've I've talked to about 19 accused killers.
None of them has ever admitted it. Uh we've had very confrontational interviews and things and gotten very
close to getting them to to admit, but in this case uh Austin Herpst, uh Gary's son, not
only admits it, but he gives us details step by step of how he murdered his own father and left his corpse in the woods
for animals to eat to destroy the evidence. He he delivers that matter-of-factly and it's uh it's
chilling and yet fascinating. So in 2017, after that dog dug up an unidentified human skull, police then
went to the woods in Wisconsin. They found additional human remains there, but investigators were unable to
identify the victim until three years later and that's when genetic genealogists got involved and they were
able to use DNA to trace a family tree which then led them to identifying the victim as Gary Herpst. Gary's wife
Connie had filed a missing person's report for him back in 2014. Peter, what was her story back then?
Connie said that Gary just walked out on them. Packed some clothing, took $5,000
in cash, but he left his cell phone behind. That seemed very strange. Connie said that he left in a gray Honda
vehicle that was driven by an unknown person. And Connie says that she was at home, and this is important later. She
was at home when Gary left her and only reported him missing when Gary's sister asked them to many months later when
there'd been a death in the family and they wanted to notify Gary. That's when they learned that he was missing and
they urged Connie to file that report. So there was a gap in the timing from when he went missing to then when they
actually reported it. And then when investigators were able to finally track down Gary's wife Connie and their adult
son Austin in 2020 they said as you did that Gary walked out on the family seven years earlier
and described him as being volatile and abusive. But investigators were immediately suspicious about the stories
they were telling because some of the details weren't really adding up, right Peter? That's absolutely right. In 2020,
Connie told cops she was at the library when he left, not at home. Remember her first story, she said she was at home.
Also in 2020, Connie said that her 40 caliber gun had been taken, but she didn't mention anything about her pistol
being taken before. And Austin's version of events changed throughout his interviews. His first police interview,
he claimed a stranger picked Gary up and drove away, but in a second interview, he said the driver was a mysterious man
with tattoos who was sketchy. And during the second interview, they both consented, Austin and his mother Connie,
to a polygraph test. Now Connie didn't show any signs of deception, but Austin did.
And by this point investigators had a hunch they were lying, but there was no other evidence, so they had to let
Connie and Austin go even though their their instincts told them, gosh, they must have been involved in in Gary's
disappearance. Well, the investigators then continue on with their work trying to put the case together. They then go
canvas the neighborhood and that's when they were able to get clues from the neighbors who said he was a
confrontational and retaliatory guy. So the neighbors, Chad and Kaya, told them back in 2013 they remembered seeing
Austin and Connie scrubbing the floors in the middle of the night. They were loading large garbage bags and what
appeared to be a rolled up rug or a carpet into Gary's truck. Yet they didn't report any of this to the police.
Why not Peter? Yeah, and and Kaya recalls that when they had observed them loading up the
garbage bags, her husband Chad said, Kaya, I think they finally killed him, but they were going off on a hunch. Since
they did not see the body or any blood, they thought Gary, as the whole neighborhood did, was a horrible man and
in some ways potentially dangerous. The neighbors also told investigators that, look, murder is never the answer and
that no one deserves to be murdered, but they also hoped that these two would not
be punished in any way because they felt Gary was just that terrible of a human being.
So they speculated from the get-go then it was Connie and Austin who killed Gary
and that he didn't just walk out on the family as, you know, Connie and Austin were telling people back then. Yeah,
it's like that scene out of The Wizard of Oz, you know, ding dong the witch is dead, the wicked old witch. That's the
way it was in that neighborhood. And uh when they were watching Austin and Connie after he had disappeared, they
were so happy. You know, they were walking around with cookies and offering them to neighbors that they hadn't
really spoken to much cuz they said Gary always kept them indoors. And um neighbors also saw Austin and Connie, if
you're ready for this, setting up for a yard sale. And what was for sale? Well, it was men's clothing, Gary's clothing
obviously. Men's shoes, ammo boxes, tools, uh Gary's favorite ride along a lawn mower. And when Kaya asked Connie
where Gary was, she replied uh he just didn't want to be married anymore and he left. Yeah, but the real
crack in the case was when a cadaver dog Radar then searched the former Herpst house in 2020 and detected the scent of
human remains. Now as a dog lover, I love that you have two dogs that really helped be the key in helping solve this
case. Yeah, the handler, Dan Moldenhauer, told us that Radar is a German Shepherd rescue from Wisconsin.
And when she detects the presence of human decomposition, she will turn around, sit and look right at
Moldenhauer. And I witnessed this myself. After all these years, Radar went through the Herpst house and
alerted at the very spot where the new owner said that she had seen this red stain on the floor. And at the time
Radar alerted and when we were there, she did it again, which was really something to see. The dog also alerted
at the basement sliding door that led outside, which is where of course the neighbors had seen the the two of them
bringing out bags and what appeared to be this rolled up rug, which when they were talking to each other, they
thought, gosh, could there be a body inside that? And all of the areas that Radar detected
were also areas where the Luminol glowed. 48 Hours people know very well, you spray this chemical Luminol, it
detects blood and turn off the lights and they put a special uh light that causes that chemical to
glow and all over that house it was glowing. Uh it looked like um you know, Times
Square and that told them this was definitely the murder scene. So even though Peter, this was largely a
circumstantial case back in November 2020, police then arrested Connie and Austin for Gary Herp's murder. And when
Austin was interviewed then for the fourth time, that is when he finally said he shot his father and he alleged
he did it because of years of physical and psychological abuse. Now you Peter were able to sit face to face with
Austin. You spoke to him at length. What was it like sitting across from him hearing all that detail? He was one of
the most fascinating killers I have ever met and I can call him that cuz he admitted to it. He was charming,
articulate, intelligent, a a great storyteller and a man who's spent all this time in prison. He's really thought
about this story and he has readymade answers for whatever you ask. He believes the killing of his father
was justified and he told me with with without any emotion that if he could go back in time and the circumstances were
the same, he'd shoot him again. He tells one story during the course of the interview that there was this bloody
mess down there on the floor. We didn't put any of this in the show itself. His mother comes home and she sees it and
they were both just matter-of-fact about we need to clean this up. Uh but despite
all of those years passing, Austin never came forward, remember this, to tell the
truth about what had occurred inside that house until he had to, until basically he was confronted with we know
you did this. There's a really interesting exchange that I had with Austin that wasn't in
the show that I want people to hear. It's about his thought process leading up to his confession because it suggests
that there was a possible cover-up here. About 4 and 1/2 hours into the questioning, you finally do speak up and
you say, "I would like to tell the truth, but I need to talk to my mom first." Why did you have to talk to her? Was
that to fabricate another story? I think it was partially that. Part of my brain was thinking, well, I
need to talk to my mom and you know, figure out what to say to get away with this.
Now, later on in my life here, I think I was looking for an excuse to tell the truth.
I think I was looking for a way to to confess what I had done. Because even though
I had had these years of happiness and freedom, it's a weight. It truly is a weight
having something like that and knowing that nobody knows. Hm. So interesting Peter. Yeah, to have
a discussion on how to get away with this murder. >> Yeah. Wow. He is a he is a contradiction all the
time. You you feel sorry for him in one moment and then others there's this cold
calculation that's going on. Um so that's what makes him so fascinating. Yeah. Well, Austin did say on the day of
the murder that Gary and Connie had gotten into some sort of argument. Connie then left. He said she went to
the library. Gary then fell asleep on the couch and that's when Austin said he saw the gun
under the skirt of the couch. He said that's when he sort of went into this mode where he started to fear for his
life, for his mother's life. He picked up the gun and then he shot Gary while Gary was asleep laying on that couch. I
want to play more of your interview when you grilled Austin about his actions. What do you say that
your life while he was sleeping there on the couch was not under imminent threat
and that you could have picked up the gun and left the house and gone to the police.
You didn't have to shoot him. This wasn't legally self-defense. This was murder.
Correct. What do you say to all that? I have to refer back to again, 18 years I've been told, "If you try to have me
arrested, if you try to flee, if you try to, you know, go your own way, I will find you and
kill you." You believe you have no doubt in fact that when he woke up, he would have been the one to
pick up that firearm. He would have been the one to pull the trigger. Absolutely.
100%. Kill or be killed. >> Exactly. And it's a terrible it's a terrible situation to have been put in.
Kill my father or accept that my death is on its way. The question I still have to this day,
was it kill or be killed or was it kill and we'll be happy the rest of our lives
by eliminating this man who by many accounts was a nasty personality with a mean disposition?
And he says that he suffered abuse. He's asking others to understand that he was
protecting his and his mom's lives. Keep in mind, he always said, "I was my mother's protector." and he really did
believe she would be shot. But prosecutors said there's a lot of ways of protecting people these days and that
Austin should have picked up the gun, gone to cops, but we've seen of course in other cases where victims of domestic
abuse did all the right steps and they still ended up being killed by their abusers.
Prosecutors argued however, you can't let someone off easy for murder just because they claimed that
they were abused or else anyone could say that and as they told me off camera, you could have a million people murdered
a year if that was a legitimate basis for killing someone. Welcome back. Now Austin Herp's claimed
that he shot his father Gary after he alleges Gary abused him and his mother for years. But Peter, despite all those
allegations, did police ever get any reports of abuse or did family members become aware of any such claims of
abuse? Prosecutors say there was no reported evidence of abuse and that the first time Austin and Connie talk about
abuse is after Gary's body is identified and a murder investigation is launched.
And Gary's the victim's sister Linda and her husband uh hung out with them many many times before there was this sort of
breakup in the family and they never saw any evidence of abuse, not a bruise, not
a scratch, a cut. In fact, uh Linda's husband was a veteran cop of 30 years trained to to to look for signs of abuse
and he said whenever he saw Austin and his father Gary together that it was a loving relationship and they had a great
time together. But remember, and this is important, Linda was estranged from Gary
and hadn't seen him for years. And over time, who knows, the abuse may have gotten worse. Yeah, and I mean of course
the other side of that Peter, we know with domestic abuse victims that they usually suffer in silence or they fear
that if they tell someone the abuse will just get worse for them. And psychological abuse, well, you can't
necessarily see it. That it doesn't give you bruises or a black eye. So this is what's made my head spin around during
the course of this of this investigation and it it spins to this day. You raised the issue with Austin. We
have a little bit more of your exchange. Prosecutors also say that there was no what they call real
evidence that either you or your mother were ever physically abused by Gary. You never called police. You
didn't seek help from the court system. You didn't seek help from any social agencies.
And what do you say to that? For as many abuse cases that are reported to police,
for as many people who contact them and receive restraining orders against other
people due to domestic abuse and violence, I don't know the statistics, but I can
guarantee you there are just as many that go unreported. Not everybody has the freedom or the courage or the
ability to call the cops, to receive a restraining order. Why didn't you ever share with
a friend, "My father is abusing me and my mother. We we fear him." They could find no one to back up
your story. I had to hide it. I had attempted to when I was younger and it brought me either being bullied
because I was a weird child or just apathy. Wasn't their problem. And I I mean that I'm talking
kindergarten, first, second grade. As a child I was like, okay, nobody cares. So I'll just keep this to myself.
It's a compelling story. I can't tell you that it is untrue. It's just as as prosecutors who are
suspicious about all this say, it only came out when their lives were on the line and this was the only
defense in the prosecutor's minds that they could put forward that in some ways would create sympathy for them
and and the notion that they had was that that could lead to a a lesser sentence. You then asked Austin
how he and his mother Connie decided to dispose of Gary's body. I want to play a
little bit more of your interview. This part didn't make it into the hour. We drive for I'd say about 2 2 and 1/2
hours. I start taking county roads. And there is a like almost like a square of forest and
then a field. And then you try to dig a hole, a grave? Yeah. What happens? In the process of doing so,
cars, you know, I I can still see the lights on the road of vehicles that pass by.
And I saw a vehicle go by. And I heard the vehicle slow down. So, at that point I got nervous. And
I went back to the car. I figured that wildlife would take care of the rest. What do you mean wildlife take care of
the Bears, foxes, they would devour the body, the bones would be scattered. Nobody would know.
That seems a bit barbaric. Absolutely. I was not in a state of mind that I ever want to revisit.
I was at the lowest I'd ever been. Both in my emotions and in my humanity. Mhm. Dumped the body so animals would eat
him. And um he says it so matter-of-factly even now, there's no emotion behind those words.
It's a It's he's like he's delivering a report. It It became in a way the perfect cover-up. You know, evidence is
in the stomach of beasts. And they also ended up getting rid of other evidence according to Austin after they returned
home, they cut up the couch into pieces cuz there was blood all over the couch. They put the pieces in plastic bags and
placed them in Gary's truck along with the rug. That's the stuff that the neighbors believe actually saw and drove
to a campsite where he and his mother burned the remaining evidence. They also disposed of the gun used to kill him in
a lake that's that was nearby. And after the murder, they did everything possible
to cover up what they had done. They lied to cops. And I said to him, that's what criminals do. And he says, yeah,
that is. And did they ever tell you if they thought at all to call the cops and and
you know, to claim even that this they did this in self-defense instead of, you know, trying to cover up what was a
murder? Yeah, I was a little surprised by this. Austin said that he and his mother
didn't call the police because they believe that cops are evil. Austin told me that he was made to feel scared that
if he did call the cops, he would be locked away for life. So, they lied to cops uh for years. Let's talk more about
Connie Herpst because she pleaded guilty to aiding an offender and accomplice after the fact. She was sentenced to 2
years, 3 months without a trial, but under Minnesota sentencing guidelines, Connie ended up serving just 3 months
behind bars. She was released in May of 2022. Now, in your interview with Austin
Peter, you raised the prosecutor's speculation about whether Connie might have actually been the one to have shot
Gary Herpst and that Austin, as he said, he was always his mother's protector, was he perhaps the one who was then
taking the fall for it? Yeah, the prosecution really wanted to cross-examine Connie to challenge her
about uh her story if if if she was at the house or at the library. But because she took this plea deal, she didn't go
to trial and they never got that chance. And of course, we asked Connie for an interview and she turned us down. Well,
Austin ultimately pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and in 2021, a judge sentenced him to 12 years and 6
months. Now, Austin will be eligible for release in 2029. Peter, were you at all
surprised by the sentence? Yes, there's um you know, discretion with the judge. She heard his story. And uh people
who've listened to this podcast, you get a sense of of this young man, the intelligence. You don't sense there's
some demonic threatening thing in his personality. She believed his story of abuse. The prosecution, honestly, was
flabbergasted by how light a sentence um was given to both Connie and Austin. And consider this, in addition to the
murder, Connie and Austin, they'd obstructed an investigation. They lied to police officers. That's a crime. They
desecrated a corpse. And you would have thought those things would have been reflected in the length of their
sentences, but it was not. But as you report, Peter, which was so fascinating is
hearing from the neighbors again who, you know, they hated Gary Herpst. And they were actually hoping that Connie
and Austin would have to serve no time. They didn't want them to do any hard time. I don't think we ever hear people
being that empathetic and supportive to defendants in a case of murder. Yeah, the the neighbors, the former
neighbors were very supportive of of of the two of them. One said that she thinks Austin's sentence is is too much
time and that it's wrong considering the abuse. And another neighbor uh felt that
Austin's actions were justified. And he even offered to help him when he gets out. He told me, I might offer him a
job. And um they they they felt the Austin they got to know was not a threat to society in any way. Well, one can
hope that he's he's learned a lot from this experience and having the time to think about his actions. Um but thank
you again for great reporting and for joining us. Thanks, Natalie. And thank you all for
listening. Now, if you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Watch "What the Neighbors Saw" and then catch up with "48 Hours" correspondents Natalie Morales and Peter Van Sant on "Post Mortem" as they discuss the case of Gary Herbst, who was reported missing in 2014.

00:00 What the Neighbors Saw 41:45 Watch the "Post Mortem" podcast

True crime. Real justice. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Gary Herpst's murder case reveals family secrets, abuse claims, and a shocking confession by his son Austin after years of investigation.

Key points

A Dog's Discovery. A family dog finds a human skull, leading to a cold case investigation.
The Family's Reaction. Connie and Austin's stoic demeanor raises suspicions during the investigation.
Suspicious Activity. Neighbors witness Connie and Austin scrubbing floors and carrying out a rolled-up carpet.
Uncovering the Truth. Investigators find blood evidence in the Herpst home, suggesting foul play.
The Moment of Truth. Austin confesses to killing his father, revealing the emotional turmoil behind his actions.
A Troubling Defense. Prosecutors argue that Austin's actions do not constitute self-defense, leading to his conviction.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's like it they just glossed over it.

Detective's observation about Connie and Austin's reaction.

7:16WatchApr 12, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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