True crime cases that made it to Hollywood | "48 Hours" Full Episodes | Forensic Files

real people real crimes real life drama in the mid 1980s a young funeral home director named Bernie
Titi came to the little East Texas town of [Music] Carthage it's beautiful yes I love the
people here in Carthage Carthage is just a small town of 6,000 people a lot of people got very wealthy on oil fall in
gas there's a lot of little widows in town who have a lot of money none more so than Mrs margorie
Nan Bernie Titi was running a con on my grandmother they picked up a gun shot her four times in the back and
then he buried her in her own deep freeze my name is Bernie TAA you may have heard about me this is my story
they did a movie about me called Bernie Jack Black who's going to play you yes Richard link later is my favorite
filmmaker I've ever worked with all right cut I'm Rick linklater and I directed the movie Bernie there was something
about this story that stayed with me and I think it was that relationship the Miss nent Bernie relationship and the
Bernie Tito that you know is he a good man he's the sweetest guy you know he's the a great
man very complex character is that part of what attracted you to this film The thing about playing Bernie is
that he's lovable and it's really important to Bernie that he be loved perf submiss and I can relate to that visions
of I have a little bit of that in me too you know this would be funny if it was so damn sad apparently marjerie was
tough she was vile and hateful and just mean wave hi hello she's very loving I miss her Bernie stole $3.8 million from
my grandmother and then he put four bullets in her back at close range how did this happen and that was what the
movie explored she didn't have a lot of friends she didn't have a lot of people around her to take care of her and to
love her and that's where Bernie came in did she ever look at you Bernie and say
Bernie I love you well we often told each other that yes she was a wonderful woman and didn't deserve to be executed
by Bernie Titi I have to live with this every day of my life and I don't like that I think the film is asking the
question can the nicest person in the world I don't like thinking ill of Mary be capable of the worst act
[Music] [Applause] [Music] let's go back and start the Bernie story from the beginning where'd you grow up well right
here in East Texas one way or another Bernie TAA has been dealing with death and darkness
since he was 3 years old my daddy and my mother they had a car accident and my mother was riding in the passenger side
of the car and uh um daddy never forgave himself for that his mother dead his father started drinking
hard and died when Bernie was just 15 so a lot of death had occurred in our in our family things only got worse for
Bernie he claims he was molested by his own Uncle Elmer ducet 12 when my uncle began molesting me ducet has always
denied Bernie's allegations did it darken your world in some way yes it did Bernie learned firsthand that the
wounded lonely and those the dead leave behind need comforting this was Bernie Tito's world I guess you could say
that's true yeah Carlton shamburger is the owner of Hawthorne Funeral Home where Bernie worked for 9 years he was
very successful here at Hawthorns and as a funeral director overall he could do everything he could he was talented
could do everything from makeup hair he could he could preach even out coloration then apply highlights it
would just be part of what inspired director Richard linklater and actor Jack Black to collaborate on the Darkly
comic movie Bernie too much color does not make one look more alive he was on a lot of people's list to literally sing
them to Heaven he knew how to take care of families he could connect that quick [Music]
exactly so it was wasn't long after 27-year-old Bernie arrived in Carthage back in
1985 that everyone seemed to know him from the dusty dirt roads one of his excellent qualities was he was a gourmet
cook where Jack Payne and Ira bounds live I think that he was well thought of amongst the little old ladies in
town and at Comer's famous barbecue he taught our Sunday school he preached a funeral for us even down at the
courthouse did you know know Bernie TAA yes where local Legend district attorney
Danny Buck Davidson ruled back then and still rules today everyone sense something good had come to town you
think Jay I'm glad this guy came here he's an asset to the community everybody love
Barney well I enjoyed singing in the choir and then I got active also in the school here in the drama Department I
was acting and and and doing in plays and you were often times the star often times often times yes did you feel loved
in this community very much so I felt very much loved local ladies Lisa and Susie cochrell sum it up simply he was a
God he God I mean almost people really s him like that yeah he's got a warmth got a magnetism
just a super generous sensitive guy and is is everybody's best friend Bernie TAA
always had had that human touch he knew just what to say to bring a smile to anyone who needed it so in a grieving
vulnerable Widow came here to the Hawthorne Funeral Home Bernie saw an opportunity to do what he did
best in 1990 the town's leading banker and oilman Rod Nan hard-nosed tough but fair
businessman dies skip Collingsworth covered the case Fort Texas monthly magazine and Bernie is in charge of his
funeral I am bombed his body and got him ready for the funeral and Mrs Nan arrives and I'd met with her about the
arrangements Margery nent would one day be portrayed by Oscar winning actress Shirley mlan I saw her to the grave site
we had the funeral service there and then I took her back to the car are you thinking to yourself well we parted ways
we did some business and never shall meet again well no cuz that's not how I I conduct funerals as I often do with
the widows widowers check on them uh go by the house make sure they're all right
did they appreciate your your dropping by oh very much so why don't you know that I was thinking about you you know
these times can be hard well Margie wasn't a Huggy typ person Ruth cochrell would come to know as much as anyone in
Carthage about the Friendship of Bernie and margorie well we are first cousins were you guys close we got pretty close
could margerie be difficult I think any of us can be difficult I mean as an old setting
handsom [Music] sometimes in small towns anywhere your reputation is not often defined by who
you are it's by what people think of you and so the reputation did get around that Mrs Nan could be C tankis could
Marjorie be mean yes sir she could and another thing newly widowed 74-year-old margerie nent was loaded
with cash she would kind of be a call of blue blood as much as $6 million some soaps and a little bubble bath to soo
the in the tub Bernie T wasn't about to be turned away come in oh that it would be my sure I felt sorry for margorie I
really [Music] did and soon Marjorie and Bernie were seen on the scene The Odd Couple of
Carthage we'd go to the Cherokee club we would go to the Jalapeno Tree here in Carthage yeah they were uh they were a
pair and it wasn't long before marjerie wanted more than a part-time dinner date
and Bernie complied she asked me to leave the funeral home she just wanted more and more and more of me around she
actually hired Bernie and paid him a salary there's this notion out there that you were attracted to margery's
money yes um I'm aware of that uh I that was not part of the deal that was not part of my wanting to be around
margorie there's members of margery's family that tell a different story Bernie TAA is what a thief
just 2 hours up the road in Dallas these are some of our old family photos of my
grandmother three proud granddaughters everything that has been said about her is not her have a very different take on
just why Bernie was befriending Margery he saw her as a mark he stole her money when he was about to be found
out he shot her and killed her that's the real story that is the real story [Music]
is this case about money yes it is how so I think that defends everything The Majestic Gates swung open
to a kingdom of riches and Bernie TAA rolled right in I think the Fatal mistake my grandmother made is she ended
up buying a $30,000 headstone from Bernie TTI from that moment he marked her within months of meeting at her
husband's funeral Bernie was full-time at marjerie n jent's i popping home helping her with anything that she
needed help with make her coffee make sure she was was up she was all right he was there he was there for her
they loved each other yeah Bernie loves everybody and I think he's the one person in the world in that era who
could feel that from Marge when no one else could I never thought of him as being lovey Dobies never just just just
together just friends I never saw him kiss you never did nope and da Danny Buck probably
never would because there was something about Bernie that made folks Wonder back
then I'm a gay man and it's hard to be a a gay man and being out in a small town
did margerie know you were gay we never discussed it never discussed no so what was the attraction she's 42 years older
than you right he was targeting wealthy women well I think the attraction for margerie was uh the same as it was for
everybody else in town he was just a a lovable guy when you spend time with them you want
to hang out with them less than a year after her husband's death Bernie and Margery
started hanging out big time trading in the back roads for Broadway we'd go up on Friday
morning and then come back on Sunday saw Broadway shows we had a lot of fun together Bernie TAA the mortician who
made about $24,000 a year now had access to Marjorie Nan's 10,000 square foot mansion in Carthage her checkbook and a
world of opportunity they went on great adventures together wave hi hello they had a ball together they traveled the
world we went to Washington Baltimore and then took a a cruise down the East Coast we went to uh Germany
England Scotland and Wales Egypt went to the pyramids we just went everywhere was
she having a good time she was having a great time he was her manservant is it too busy the guy hired
to take care of her every need clipped her toenails all the uh nitty-gritty and for Bernie the perks kept piling up
marjerie showered him with cash clothing cars even flying lessons and planes to go
with it and in turn Bernie gave gifts to the good people of Carthage he provided
money he provided scholarships doing good doing a lot of good in Carthage turns out he was generous with Miss
Nan's money he was kind of the conduit to her generosity to her better Angel she spoiled me rotten but the new jents
say their grandma never needed Bernie or anyone to teach her kindness my grandmother was a loving sweet woman and
she was kind she was she was kind and she loved telling stories this is really eye
opening guys to talk to you this is really eye opening in '93 like we went there and she opened
the door and she hugged me and she kissed me like eight times but whatever margery's affection for her
granddaughters the stakes were about to change marjerie nent filed a new will leaving everything to Bernie and nothing
to her family did you encourage her to do that no she brought that to me uh one day and it was in
1991 why would she do that well I felt like she could felt like she could trust me I guess it was on one of the next
family visits to Carthage that the nent women got a hint of How Deeply Bernie had moved into their grandmother's life
flash forward to 1994 we go to see her and she opens the door and she goes I don't know who you
are and I go what do you mean you don't know who we are and she goes I don't know who you are she's like you need to
leave and we went in and there were pictures of Bernie everywhere and we said who is this you know nanny who is
this this and she said well he's my friend and the thing that Disturbed me was that all of the pictures of my
grandfather were gone for shanana Alexandria and Susan Grandma margery's new Behavior was disturbing she was like
a school girl in love and the motives of her new companion deeply suspect we believe that my grandmother was in love
with Bernie and believed that he was in love with her when was the last time you
guys saw your grandmother alive that visit in 1994 and now they worried that Bernie
was well on the way to tricking Marjorie out of millions I think it's the perfect
example of a sweetheart scam um that I have ever seen my grandmother believed he loved her how do you know that cuz I
saw her but Bernie tells a different story claiming that after 5 years attending to Marjorie the relationship
had soured and that even though he had his own modest home he felt trapped by marjerie and wanted out Bernie claims
margery's 247 demands had turned into an abusive relationship she was very uh mean-spirited very um uh abrupt with me
very um could she be abusive yes very much so in some ways would was her place his gilded cage and she closed the door
on that cage yeah we were uh in a heated discussion about um I I I told her I said I just I've got
to I can't do this anymore and I said I I I can't be your friend anymore I just can't do this go ahead you H me she was
very distraught uh you can't leave me you're not going to leave me no one has ever left me I know you're a so I backed
my car out of the garage and other time I got out there she had locked the gate on me until I finally just I said okay I
won't leave you I won't leave well just park your car jump over the gate run you know whatever but Bernie is
not one built for conflict I think he takes it as his fate I can't get away from this woman the door's right there
Bernie but it's not as simple as that uh people get trapped people get trapped no exit no way out and at least
according to Bernie feeling like margorie Nan's prisoner reminded him of the abuse he says he suffered as a boy
and in some ways did you feel trapped in this relationship just as you had been trapped with your uncle
yes yes I did I think he is a killer I think he has no remorse I don't believe a word
that comes out of the man's mouth [Music] [Applause] you Bernie TAA claims it pains him to recall how
controlling and contener margorie nent could be I don't like the things that she did
but I don't like talking about him either personally and I think he's pure evil let's moved now to November 19th
1996 tell me about that day and what from your perspective led to the tragedy I had gone out to the house to
make coffee early 7:30 got her up that's enough of that ex I don't want you to talk about the
shooting this is attorney jod Cole she would eventually become a big part of Bernie tita's life this is all public
records I do not want him to talk about the shooting and how his story would be told that's enough yet when we spoke
with Bernie jod Cole stopped him from telling those Grizzly details hard facts everyone from Carthage to
Hollywood now knows shot her in the back four times shot her dead with this 22 caliber
rifle the first bullet in her back makes her paralyzed so she falls straight down
onto the concrete he shoots her again he then walks straight up to her body puts
the nuzzle to the gun to the back of her and shoots it two more times those graphic details would be missing
from the movie I remember right before we shot that scene I went up to Jack Black and I said have you ever killed
anyone in a movie like this yeah that was one of the hardest scenes in the movie Mary you see a scene like that in
a script and you Circle it in the calendar when you're going to shoot that and you think about it a lot marrey can
you say something oh no no no no Jesus no no no what have I done I'm sorry that that happened my
life I caused the death of somebody that I loved days turned into months as Bernie
kept his awful secret and marjorie's family they began to wonder what had become of Grandma I started asking my
dad have you heard from Nanny I can't get her and you know maybe she's on another trip she'll call you when she
gets back and the nent women all busy college students at the time this was Christmas my grandparents admit there
was a reluctance to reach out to Grandma Marjorie we had the strange encounter in
1994 where we didn't feel welcome and every Sunday he'd come sit right beside me and give me a full report on Margie
and what were you thinking to yourself I'm thinking you're lying that's what I'm thinking and I just made up one
thing or another you told one she had Alzheimer's another she was in the hospital such a a difficult ult time and
Mama would tell us what he had been saying and and it's like Mama are you crazy he's either got her locked up in
the house poisoning her or he's already killed her if I had gone to the police and then been proven
wrong I would have been left out of Carthage because people thought so much of Bernie so week after week month after
month passes marjor is nowhere to be seen nine months nine months it was August 18th
1997 the nents had finally shared their concerns with the local sheriff I get a call from my dad he and
I drive [Music] down and it's clear that no one's been there for a very long time
so where was marjerie nent I wanted to check the freezer my grandmother was a child of the depression so you didn't
waste food turning back up the hallway so when Alexandria and the sheriff's deputies got to the house she knew
exactly where she wanted to go she walked down this hallway Alexandria knew that if her grandmother had left the
house she would have put everything she kept in the refrigerator in a freezer located inside this Pantry she opened
the door and there it was it was so quick it was like I walked in and I said there's tape on the freezer and this is
freezer she untaped it and raised it up and threw the lid open and there was the top of Miss n's
head and I looked at my dad and I said they found her and he just kind of did this and all I wanted at that moment
was my mom do I regret the fact that I didn't rush down there to stop him from doing
this yes because that's what you do when you love someone and you find out that the person that they were in love with
shot them four times in the back as you think how could I have saved them while a motive remained unclear there was Zero
mystery about the prime suspect Barney's name was top of Bernie was easy to find he was right in
Carthage at home when the sheriff's depuy showed up and brought him in for questioning I was so relieved when they
came for me and arrested me it felt like this big weight had been lifted off my shoulder how could you
come to my house eat my food and sing hymns and my cousin over there in the Deep Freeze
it's Grim when you know you see an old lady on video being pulled out of a freezer those are images that stay with
you and I think it took two days to th out and for them to do an autopsy strange yes that same day Bernie TAA
confessed to Penola County sheriff's deputies that he murdered marjerie nent there wasn't a question in anybody's
mind everybody knew I think you're right Danny Buck Davidson would charge Bernie
with first-degree premeditated murder and seek the ultimate penalty laugh life in prison maximum sentence and that's
when this Twisted Texas tail really got strange people in the community were coming in saying Berney was a real good
guy if he killed her he had a reason for doing poor Bernie he had his groupies Bernie had his groupies yep some people
are saying hey let him go some people are saying no put them away for life you just have never seen a story
like this come across your desk ever and people still want to talk about it they're still mystified about what
really happened on that November afternoon that led Bernie to shoot her four [Applause]
times I'd stay in in the garden with Bernie TAA had preached and comforted and sang his way into this
proud small Town's everyday life he held a special place in the hearts of many people in Carthage Texas
some folks even suggested Bernie was next door to the angels and I said he's an angel all right he's an angel of
death your job as a prosecutor you got a man who's admitted he put four bullets in
the back of a little old lady put her in a preure and kept spending her money while he was dead and you have a
community saying leave him alone that's what would they say go easy on Barney it happened so often he asked
for a change of venue and he got one the trial of Bernie TAA for murdering margerie nent was moved 50 Mi away and
in February of 1999 Danny Buck told his tale to a jury who had never heard about
Bernie I thought it was greed and betrayal that's what I sold to the jury Bernie's defense was that he killed
marjerie in an act of passion that her murder was not premeditated I don't know what happened that morning
the jury did not relate to him the they related to me the trial lasted less than a week how
long did it take this jury to make its decision I think it took them maybe 20 minutes to find him
guilty 9 years after he met Marjorie newon at her husband's funeral Bernie was sentenced to life in prison which is
the top Max sentence and I felt pretty good about it I deserve time I've done a particularly horrible thing the
worst thing in my life Case Closed except for this Richard linklater couldn't get the tale of
Bernie TAA out of his head I ended up attending the trial and started thinking of this maybe there's a movie here Rick
and Skip Hollingsworth wrote The Bernie screenplay and brought it to Jack Black and he said hey I never told you about
this thing that I've been obsessed with this story about this fellow Bernie TAA and so I said let me read this
thing Jack Black became so intrigued he agreed to play the lead role but not before he and Link later
paid a visit to a Texas Maximum Security Prison to try and understand just who Bernie TAA really was I wanted to come
and uh meet you as still think it's important if uh if I want to play a real person that I that I should meet you
love be around people I'm just a person black wanted to know what made Bernie tick right down to what he felt in the
days after he murdered marjerie that must have been incredibly stressful that period with the walls closing in have no
Earth idea it was absolutely horrendous if you're playing a person and you have access to them you got to go see them
it's just one of the rules of the game I'm very appreciative of of them coming to meet me and I have to stay here
unless something changes oh there's one man in particular I can think of I you like to talk to the movie Bernie also
featured Matthew mccon as Danny Buck Danny Buck's coming to get you first here please in April 2012 it
premiered in Rick's hometown of Austin critics loved it I know you at this idea that my grandmother was a monster is
ludicrous the nen family thought it was beyond offensive it was a complete lie it was devastating to us I mean they
took the most awful part of our lives and just laughed about it and joked about it it's like he' cast a spell over
the entire area and now the Bernie TAA story was about to take yet another bizarre twist that began right at the
movie premiere a little feisty lady comes up to me and says I bet there was some you know crazy stuff going on at
the trial she's appeals lawyer jod Cole and after watching the movie she got a hunch that the trial of Bernie TAA had
been a miscarriage of Justice I want the world to know that Bernie TAA is a good
person and that this outcome is unacceptable I said look at that he snaps and so I thought why did he get a
life sentence she asked link later if he had the transcripts from Tia's 1999 murder trial he came with his boxes of
transcripts put it on her desk and like I don't know have at it jod poured over the files knowing that Bernie's life
sentence hinged on Danny Buck's argument that the murder was premeditated and within a couple of
weeks she had come to see me is there a miracle that's about to occur yes and jod Cole did a lot of work toward that
Miracle happening all right Mar Mary are you okay that morning I felt like I wasn't a
part of the shooting 16 years after he shot margerie nent dead Bernie painted a picture for defense attorney Jody Cole
about how he felt that awful morning I felt like I wasn't even there and I have learned that that is called a
dissociative episode I think it's a classic case of a kind of disassociated moment that's what this whole case
hinges on a dissociative episode The New Age psychological term would break the case against Bernie TAA wide open when
they are overwhelmed with stress and emotion they actually disassociate which is leave their
body and Bernie's body the theory goes killed marjerie without his mind taking part and he shot her yes involuntarily
the nen family would have their own take on Jody's ideas not connected with reality thoroughly confused this woman
had been abusing him for a very long time and his body acted in a way to end that abuse Bernie also confided in Jody
what he says is his darkest secret about that childhood sexual abuse he claims he
suffered at the hands of that Uncle jod brought the findings to the DA and he was sold what do you conclude in
terms of why this murder occurred the child abuse and the beauty relationship I think that he did not plan on killing
her Denny Buck says if he had to do it all over again he would have sought a much lighter sentence 20 years would
have been the maximum sentence not because Danny Buck wants 20 it's what the law is Danny Buck then
went to bat for the killer he had once helped convict and on May 6th 2014 Bernie titi's life sentence thrown out a
new sentencing trial is ordered and Bernie is released from prison for the time being lots of Miracles have
happened in my life the next miracle was in the parking lot Mr linklater picked me up and we drove to Austin the real
life Bernie Titi just got out of an East Texas present uh this is Bernie's little
apartment he lived down here he put me up in his apartment at his home in some ways did Bernie become part of the
family yeah very much I mean did you ever babysit your kids yeah in Austin Bernie went about creating a new life
all on borrowed time he joined the Gay Men's Choir in the time of King Herod he became a regular at Pastor Sid Hall's
Church our folks surrounded him like mother hens just loving him he was definitely feeling the uh Ecstasy of
[Applause] Freedom well my first thought is how is this happening the nent granddaughters
found it all beyond belief Richard linklater con Richard Linker is just as con as my grandmother
was I think I'm pretty uncontable I think Danny bet got enthralled with Hollywood i' say that's
BS before the sentencing trial Danny Buck recused himself he was replaced by two prosecutors determined to put Bernie
TAA back Behind Bars this was just a straightup execution I think he's conned Hollywood and he's conned the whole
Judicial System Jane stars and Assistant Attorney General Lisa Tanner weren't buying it Bernie didn't have a
dissociative episode this case is about abusing elderly vulnerable people it's about abusing margorie nent financially
and it's about just coldblooded murder what do we have in front of us here we have just small portions of the paper
trail Lisa Tanner would allege Bernie regularly forged margerie Nan's signature he was very good at signing
her signature manually manipulated her bank accounts this is what he showed Marjorie but this is what he really
deposited we had 14 of these altered her brokerage statements the original of this document is literally a cut and
pasted dummied up statement all of this he's pocketing her money both while marjerie was alive and after Bernie had
killed her and stuffed her in her freezer the numbers ended up being approximately $3.8 million total
Bernie's motive for murder came into Focus he was about to be found out [Music] about in April
2016 after 2 years of Freedom Bernie Tia's new sentencing trial began as the jury here and ready to go it was moved
to Henderson Texas because Bernie still had so many friends and fans in Carthage
what began with State Miss Tanner Lisa Tanner put Bernie in her sights this is a real case with a real murderer he did
that and Hollywood so we're going to talk about that in a non- fictionalized non hollywoodized kind of way Hollywood
means you know lack of morality thank you guys but I took that really personal cuz I
don't live in Hollywood I'm an indie Texas director Rick link later was called to the stand to defend his friend
I think he's a incredibly nice generous man who you know did a horrible thing the
director and those who love Bernie argued he had paid his dues with time already served 16
years yeah I'd say he served enough time and Bernie's Uncle under oath denied ever having molested Bernie you say
never but did admit writing him a letter sexual in nature Bernie did not testify
at the trial I mean I just there they're just some questions that don't have any
answers two dramatic versions of margerie Nan's murder have now been told one on the big screen the other in a
courtroom in Henderson Texas the question now is who will the jurors believe sudden
passion dissociative episode snapping when he took that gun and pointed it down straight to the ground and put it
in her back that justified a life sentence then Bernie are you a danger to society no sir not at
all the jury goes out to deliberate Alexandria what's going through your mind you know at that moment all you can
do is pray on April 2nd 2016 some 26 years after he met marjerie nent the jury once again sentenced
Bernie TAA to 99 years in prison for 99 years alive everyone in that courtroom knew that my
grandmother was not mean she did not deserve to die and that this man deserved to go away for the rest of his
life when I heard 99 years I mean it was just it was devastating he back in prison for life
it's very discouraging now what's as certain as his life sentence is this deep in the Heart of Texas Bernie
TAA is [Music] loved even today is there a Bernie TAA fan club in Carthage yes not as big as it once was
but it's here [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] I was out doing my patrol we just
started our shift that day and I was driving down Sunset Boulevard and I had received a call uh beige color car with
no license plates following this uh little girl in Los Angeles in 1968 8-year-old tally Shapiro was walking to
school when a car pulled up alongside her a good samarit and a witness sees a little girl the little 8-year-old T get
in the car thinks it's suspicious follows him and puts a call into LAPD former Los Angeles police officer
Chris kamacho reached the location and knocked on the door and I said police officer open the door I need to talk to
you this male appeared at the door I will always remember that face at that door very evil
face and he says I I'm in the shower I got to get dressed and I told him okay you got 10 seconds finally I kicked the
door in [Music] the image will be with me forever we could see in the kitchen that
there was a body on the floor a lot of blood they say A picture says a thousand words in that image of those little
white Mary Janes on that floor with that metal bar that he used to strangle her with and that puddle of blood it just
looks like too much blood to come out of a tiny little 8-year-old like that there was no breathing we all thought
she was dead kamacho began frantically searching the house for her attacker moments later he walked back
into the kitchen and witnessed a miracle she was gagging and trying to breathe and I thought one for the good
guys she's going to make it clinging to life tally was rushed to the hospital he
it hadn't not been for that police officer tly Shapiro would have died on rot alcohol's kitchen
floor we started searching the residence there was a lot of photograph equipment
and all of us were amazed at the amount of photographs that he had there of young girls very young
girls we found lot of ID picture ID of AR Rodney aala he was a student at UCLA the
suspect 25-year-old Rodney aala had slipped through the officer's fingers when I kicked in the front door the
suspect went out the back door with alala in the wind former detective Steve hodell was grasping at thin air but we
kept coming up empty back then you know we didn't have a lot of the forensics you have today he was a snake charmer I
went and talked to his professor at UCLA he says Rod Alcala wouldn't hurt anybody
he's a great guy he truly believed that you know and and a lot of people did [Music]
[Music] Rodney alala was born in San Antonio Texas in 1943 his father abandoned the
family when he was young at 17 aala enlisted in the Army but there were problems allegations of sexual
misconduct nervous breakdown the Army discharged him the military realized in 1963 that they had him that he was a
sexual deviant in 1969 the FBI put Rodney alala on its most wanted list but finding alala was going to be
no simple matter R alala after raping and and almost killing T Shapiro he fled to New
York he made friends he he Charmed people he got into NYU Film School none of his fellow students suspected that
their popular classmate had a double life which had the makings of a film itself a horror
film 3 years after his attack on T Shapiro aa's Dark Side once again emerged a beautiful face she carried
herself extremely sophisticatedly his next victim Cornelia Michael krly a 23-year-old flight attendant for tww I
was living with her temporarily while she was getting her own apartment uh ready around the corner uh to share with
another stewardess krly had spent the day moving in when Borstein came home from work he
was surprised to find her door locked and no one answered the phone when her boyfriend was trying to reach her and
was unable the police came in a horrible scene prosecutor Melissa morus was struck by the Ferocious nature of the
killing she had been stripped naked she was uh strangled with a uh nylon stocking and there was a bite mark on
her breast well obviously the cause of death is strangulation she's bound she's held there something stuffed in her
mouth obviously to keep her from screaming the police focused in on cornelia's murder but with almost 2,000
killings in New York in 1971 investigators could not close the case they had no real leads we didn't have
the forensic uh tools that we have uh today so they did what they could but it never went any place and the case just
went cold and it stayed cold for 40 years Rodney alala wasn't even a suspect after after the murder he changed his
name to John Berger and moved to New Hampshire he landed a job as a counselor at an arts and drama camp for girls
there he made a lasting impression on the campers two girls went to their local post office and they looked and
there was Rodney alcala's photo on the FBI 10 most wanted list and they looked up and said oh my
gosh that's Mr Burger they report it to the dean he calls the authorities they arrest him
take him into custody I get a phone call from the FBI saying we've got your man in custody he's ready to be picked up
police in California were eager to charge him for tally Shapiro's brutal assault but her family had left the
country with no main witness prosecutors had no choice but to offer Alcala a deal
plead guilty to a lesser charge of child molestation and register as a sex offender he took
the deal but the judge's sentence stunned those working the case he received one year to life and the Pearl
board let him go after 34 months after what he did to tell Shapiro so less than three years later Rodney alala was a
free man again I I I was flabbergasted to say the least it just amazed me and alala had no trouble Charming his way
back into the swing of things he was hired by the Los Angeles Times to work as a as a typ Setter he took photos at
weddings and uh he was a registered sex offender during all of that and nobody ever checked even worse he was chosen to
be a contestant on The Dating Game it's the dating game The Bachelor of its day what no one knew was that Rodney Alcala
was already a serial killer please welcome Rodney alkala from all outward appearances R Al Cola
was a handsome I'm called the banana and I look really good charming smart young
man well I like bananas so I'll take one number one number one all right that wouldn't hurt a fly the woman who won a
date with him ended up backing out saying she found him creepy come on over here
[Applause] her intuition probably saved her life others would not be so fortunate we'll
never know how many women are lucky cuz every woman that crossed that guy's path
was a potential victim [Music] it was 1977 Rodney alala was out of prison and living in New York bad news for the New
York cops who already had their hands full a homegrown serial killer known as Son of Sam was terrorizing the city he
struck again over the weekend the Killer's sixth victim police say they are nowhere near solving the case by
this time the Cornelia Krill case had been called for 6 years with no suspect Rodney alala was only in the city a week
before adding to the New York crime wave his next victim a 23-year-old musician and artist
named Ellen hover Ellen was a sweet gentle soul Anita Feinberg and Ellen hover met as teenagers Ellen was a very
dear college friend we roomed together for some time she never confused what she had with who
she was Ellen hover came from a prominent Show Business family her father owned the famed Hollywood
nightclub cose her Godfathers were Sammy Davis Jr and Dean Martin her mom called
me and said Anita have you heard from Ellen and I said no she said think hard nobody can find Ellen and I didn't think
anything of it until it hit the newspapers her family's high-profile made the story front page
news as the NYPD kept up the hunt for her that detective did a great job for a missing person's case it was a lot of
calls he did a lot of work a lot of leg work detectives thought they were on to something when they found an important
clue in her apartment Ellen hover had marked on her calendar that she was going to see someone named John Burger
on the date that um she disappeared remember alala had been using the name John Berger but at the time the
connection was never made her body wasn't found until um a year later buried on the grounds of the
philps Memorial Hospital in Westchester um near the Rockefeller [Music] estate until they actually found her
there was always a glimmer of hope once they found her body that was it Ellen's body was so decomposed police
had to use dental records to identify her based on the autopsy they declared it a homicide there was a suspect in the
murder fellow that they believe was the last person that she was seen with could
that fellow have been alala Ellen had written his Alias John berer in her calendar Alcala meanwhile had left New
York and was on his Meandering road trip back to California he was constantly in
predatory mode that is behavior that involves hunting human beings and that's part of a serial sexual
killer that is often as exciting as the actual homicide and sexual sexual assault at the same time Rodney Alcala
was on the road a 29-year-old woman from Texas Christine Ruth Thorton was traveling through the West with her
boyfriend her sister Kathy was 11 years younger Chris was a free spirit kind of gal so she always was up for
anything in the spring of 1977 Christine was heading to Montana with her boyfriend to pan for gold and
she had big news she let my mom know that she was going to be having a baby and then nothing more Was Heard Kathy
immediately feared the worst Christine and her boyfriend had a stormy relationship she had been abused by him
we knew that I always thought that he had done something to her soon after Christine disappeared Kathy began
searching for answers she undertook a systematic effort to track Christine and her boyfriend's whereabouts that would
last almost 40 years through marriage motherhood divorce and a career Kathy contacted police
departments federal agencies hospitals and kept copies of every phone call and letter this was a letter I sent to the
FBI I contacted the Department of Health and Human Services they say a check at this
address failed to reveal any contact with Christine Ruth Thorton the Social Security Administration I contacted them
asking if there was any employment record and there has never been any employment
history you know I think the message was kind of clear everything was no we don't know we
have nothing looking back through this it's like yeah it was staring me in the face she was
not alive Kathy didn't know the name Rodney alala but one day she would hear more about the psychology of
a sexual serial killer now on Facebook at 48 hours [Music] it was the spring of 1979 Rodney alala had been back in
California for almost 2 years and a 12-year-old Robin samso was enjoying the Southern California beach life we just
liveed to to have fun Bridget wilvert was Robin's best friend everybody could be complaining about being bored and me
and Robin would find ourselves doing cartwheels and back walkovers the other love of Robin's life was her
mom Maryanne she was probably the most loving child a mother could have everything she did she did to
please me on June 20th 1979 Robin was going to start her first day of work answering
phones at the ballet studio in exchange for lessons but first she planned to play on the beach for a few hours
with Bridget I could definitely see a gentleman with dark hair I mean he he honed in on us like
really like a like a shark in the water honing in on a seal and he goes can I take your girl's pictures and Robin goes
sure and all of a sudden out of nowhere pops up Jackie young my neighbor you know know she goes Bridget
is everything okay are you girls all right and man he he took that camera turned his head
down and you could almost see like smoke coming off his dress shoes he just he was
gone Robin and Bridget turned to go back home and Robin had thrown her Beach toing everything into her bag and she's
like well I'm going to um get going [Music] and I go well take my bike and don't
stop that was the last time anyone saw Robin alive Robin's ballet teacher called when
she did not arrive for her lesson later that day her family immediately called 911 it was um probably the most
horrifying time of all you know not knowing police Contin question the one person they thought might know where
Robin could have gone her best friend Bridget and I I said I go it was the man that man that took our
picture on July 2nd 12 Days After Robin last said goodbye to her friend and rode
off on her bike detectives found the body of a child I said let's go see her he said we
can't do that I said that's my baby of course I here why not he said because it took us 3 days to identify
her said what's wrong with you people how many little girls with long blonde hair disappeared that it took her 3 days
he shook my shoulders and the tears were coming down his face to he says there was no
hair a fire crew conducting routine fire prevention maintenance found Robin's remains in a remote location more than
40 m from where she was last seen there were 12 days for the animals to scavenge
Robin's Remains by the time uh the fire crew actually found her body she was just
Bones the pressure was on to find the killer Bridget's description resulted in this composite sketch which was released
to the media all over Southern California his parole officer saw that and uh and called the detectives and
said look there's a guy that used to be on my case load uh you really need to take a look at him his name is Rodney
alala it had been nearly 11 years since Alcala had left 8-year-old Tali Shapiro for dead but alala was easy to find this
time he lived with his mother in Monterey Park a Stones Throw from the mountains where Robin's remains were
located they learned that he had no alibi that he nobody could account for his wor at the time he was the perfect
suspect Rodney alala was arrested on July 24th and charged with the kidnap and murder of Robin
samso Detective Pat Ellis said Huntington Beach Police got an unexpected tip when alcala's sister came
to visit her brother in jail the conversation was being recorded one point he mentions him having a storage
locker in Seattle Washington the cops don't know about say do me a favor get the stuff out of there get it get it
cleared out but what alala didn't know was that police had found a receipt for the locker during a search of his home
at the time of his arrest they beat her there okay and they get inside there's the mother
load hundreds if not thousands of the of these different images and there are dozens upon dozens of these young women
that in the in the pictures clearly are in position of supreme vulnerability with with Rodney alala police learned
alala had rented the storage facility and moved his belongings there 9 days after Robin Sam's remains were
discovered buried under all this stuff was this tiny little silk bag filled with earrings alala claimed those were
his earrings but when police showed the jewelry to Robin's mother she recognized
a pair of gold ball studs that she said often borrowed so at that point um those
are all the nuts and bullets that you need for a successful prosecution nearly one year after Robin Sam so's murder
prosecutors were ready it was February 1980 Rodney alala went on trial over the course of 2 and a half months there were
almost 50 witnesses that testified it was a very long very difficult case the jury convicted alala and sentenced him
to death it's a poor exchange for my daughter's life but maybe it'll save someone else is by him being gone but
the relief would be shortlived today in a 5 to1 decision the California state Supreme Court ruled that Rodney Alcala
did not receive a fair trial the jury had been improperly told about alcala's prior sex crimes
including the attack on tally the decision would devastate Robin's mother but the ordeal was just beginning you
know there's only one perpetrator that little Stone but the ripples keep going there's victims and victims and
victims and [Music] victims the samso family was steadfast in the face of a second trial for the
murder of Robin they demanded Justice and he killed my child my child 6 years after the first verdict a
clean-cut Rodney alala was convicted a second time and again the sentence was death we the jury find the defendant
Rodney James alala guilty of the crime of violation death that's the only penalty that could ever be rendered in
the case it is this aala had been on San Quentin's death row since since 1980 now with a second conviction and a
second death sentence he was prepared to appeal all over again it was never really feeling safe that he
was locked up because you always thought there was a chance to' go free in 2001 22 years after he killed Robin samso a
federal appeals court overturned Rodney alcala's sentence for a second time based on evidence he didn't get to
present there would be a new trial for alala now in his 60s for Robin Sam so's family it was unbearable we've gone
through a lot of hell because of that animal a lot of Hell a lot of H the path to justice for Robin samso
would take almost a decade more in New York City 39 years since the murder of Cornelia Krill and 33 years
since Ellen Hover was killed Cold Case detectives were finally able to identify Rodney alala as the killer of both women
the strongest link was the fingerprint there was a letter um that was lodged underneath Cornelia kill's body and
there was a fingerprint developed from the outside of that envelope which was unmatched for many years and finally
through the FBI's database there was a match it was a significant piece of evidence but not enough standing alone
equally incriminating was the evidence left on her body there was bite mark evidence where he had bit in her breast
it's his his Dental impression is the one that's on her body and of course we looked at all of his other cases to see
similarities in sexual murders he had committed he decided we had enough evidence in Ellen Hoover's case
investigators now knew John Berger was Rodney alala and he had been seen near the Rockefeller Estates where her body
was found I think she was abducted here in Manhattan and ultimately killed up there
we had a witness who saw somebody who looked like Rodney Alcala at that time period with a woman who looked like
Ellen hover the man was carrying a camera bag just like Alcala did but the Manhattan prosecutors would have to wait
for California's third trial for Robin Sam's murder in Orange County assistant DA Matt Murphy was ready to go to court
when there was a stunning development DNA linked alala to three Los Angeles murders Jill barkham Georgia
Wicked and Charlotte lamb the killing of a fourth LA Woman Jill parento was also
tied to him right at that moment we realized that not only is Rodney alala a vicious murderer in our case but in fact
he is the serial killer that we always suspected him to be in a highly unusual maneuver the
California prosecutors decide to try all five cases together a bizarr looking Rodney alala would serve as his own
attorney on June the 20th 1979 Robin samso left bridgid wilber's there is no better Forum than to be
center stage in court as your own attorney and you cross-examine the witnesses you're like God in that
courtroom alala even called Robin sams's mother to the stand that was one of the
hardest things I've ever had to do in my life having him ask me questions desperate to impeach MaryAnn's character
alala confronted her about how during the first trial she had reportedly brought a gun to court she didn't deny
it I was going to shoot him right between the eyes if I could have gotten a shot at him but then she felt Robin's
presence all of a sudden I smelled her shampoo and I felt this warmth in my hand and I couldn't get my hand out of
my purse for the third time Robin Sam so's family waited as a jury decided Rodney alcala's fate this time there
were four other families waiting with them one of the many things that hurts me is that that was the last face she
saw and that bothers me cuz he's so ugly and he's so evil when the jury reached a verdict it
was a relief to the families who had been waiting for justice for so long the SOS hoped that this would finally be the
end way the Cherry find the defendant Rodney James alala guilty of the crime of Murder in the first degree
victim Robin C samso Rodney absolutely 100% deserves to die for what he did in a separate
penalty phase the prosecution called to the stand a ghost from his past my name is t
Shapiro I'm one of uh Rodney aa's first victims and one of the only living victims it should have stopped with me
why in the world world are there so many other victims when it was a known fact what he did to me Rodney alala
addressing the same jury that convicted him of murder makes an unusual plea for clemency let me put the death penalty in
perspective for you if you desire to join in the killing of a human being you and the families of the victims will
have to wait at least 15 to 20 years while the case slowly turns through the appell process he wanted to play an Arlo
Guri song Alice's Restaurant and there's a a part in that song where he talks about wanting to kill people and he
played that incredibly for the jury ala's perverse closing argument did not sway the
jury we the jury determined that the penalty to be imposed upon defendant Rodney James alala to be
death Rodney alala had been on death row for more than 30 years now convicted of five murders it
was unlikely he could win another appeal with the California cases settled the New York prosecutors were ready for
him but they were not expecting what would happen next he came back to New York in June of 2012 and by December he
pled guilty it it was a surprise it was a surprise that he pled guilty because he had denied um every crime he was ever
accused of Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance Jr announced alcala's sentence two concurrent prison terms of
25 years to life for both families who had lost all hope that these cases would ever be solved the
pleas by Rodney Alcala and today's sentencing brings closure to painful chapters in their lives the judge cried
during the sentencing and and Martha and I have been in this business for over 35
years each and I've never seen a judge cry during uh a sentencing as was agreed upon alala was
returned to San quent's death row I got a telephone call from Robin sams's mother and she said she was so grateful
um that we were doing this it's such a comfort to know that regardless of what might happen to the California cases if
for some reason he should get out he's coming back to New York and he's going to serve 25 to Life both the New York
and California prosecutors are haunted by the question are there other victims out there he crisscrossed the country
west coast East Coast East Coast West Coast crossed through a lot of states and I'm sure there are victims in those
States they just have to be found how come she hasn't contacted us that's not like
her Rodney Okala had been convicted of seven murders and was facing five separate death
penalties Kathy Thorton who had spent the last 39 years trying to track down her missing Sister Christine had never
heard of alala but her son did it would change Kathy's Quest forever the killing
game tonight's 48 Hours mystery in 2013 Kathy's son had watched a 48 hour Story on alala that led him to its website and
a series of photos taken by alala of unidentified women I got an email from my son that
said I saw these pictures take a look if you'd like Kathy scrolled through the images she kept stopping at one of them
a picture of a beautiful woman on the back of a motorcycle I said yeah that sure looks like Chris and then I saw her
little toe her baby toe and and that's one thing I always remembered about Chris was her little baby
toe was different it it hooked I just saw that tone I said oh yeah that's Chris Googling the name Rodney alala
Cathy's heart almost stopped Kathy now believed her sister had been traveling with a notorious serial
killer fearing the worst but still wanting answers Kathy submitted her own DNA to a national databas base of
missing persons if her sister's DNA was ever submitted they could be matched hundreds of miles away Jeff
sheeman a Wyoming detective was working on a very tough cold case they referred to my case as Granger Greta because it
was an unidentified female that was found in Granger Wyoming back in 1982 there were a lot of aerial photos
and photos from the scene when the body was found it was a desolate area County prosecutor Daniel aramas recalled his
predecessors had tried everything to help identify the victim the skull was intact and so the Wyoming State Crime
Lab was able to have an artist come in and uh use the skull as a form of of recreating what this victim looked like
[Music] more than 30 years had passed without a lead all sheiman could do was study the
old files with a new set of eyes the bones were found next to clothing uh the bones had been pulled apart uh
presumably by scavengers animals she'd been out there about 5 to 6 years it was the body of a 25 to 35y old female they
also told investigators at that time that uh she was also approximately six-month pregnant
sheiman was blown away when he found the Wyoming crime lab had saved skin tissue
and Bone fragments and all we got to do is get the ball rolling with send it to the proper authorities to start
processing it for um any DNA specifically mitochondrial DNA that's DNA from the mother's side of the family
siblings would be revealed as a match I honestly thought I would be 10 20 years retired before I'd even receive a phone
call saying they I identified her less than a year later Jeff got the miraculous news there was a match
between Kathy thoron and the unidentified bones I believe there was a lot of luck that went into it to went
into this whole case I believe that's what solved it as a lot of luck after 39 years of searching Kathy found Christine
her hunt was finally over and the story of what happened to her sister began to unravel during the summer of
1977 Christine split with her boyfriend and had the tragic Misfortune of meeting
Rodney alala their trip through the lonely Granger Prairie would be Christine's Last Ride when you see that
photo there's no doubt that she was having fun I think she just had no clue what he he was thinking what he was
capable of doing so I think you're happy I'm until the point point where you're not and at that point there was no no
Escape where would she go the location where the photo was taken to the location where Christine's
remains were found were within probably just a few yards of each other I believe that Rodney alala killed
Christine thoron shortly after that photograph was taken but before he would indict Alcala for
Chris Thorton's murder prosecutor Aram mospi wanted to interview him in September 2016 he flew with the
two detectives to California frail and in ill health Rodney Alcala had been moved from San Quenton to the medical
unit of corkran prison outside of Fresno when when we first arrived at corkran we
talked to some of the security staff they said that he was uh borderline dementia whatever his condition he was
still being treated like the dangerous serial killer that he was we went through numerous doors numerous gates to
this peach colored uh prison cell that looked like something off of a horror movie paints coming off the walls flies
buzzing around alal is on a bed facing a wall his feet were sticking out out from
underneath the sheets and you know he had long toenails we started pulling out photographs of the crime
scene he took 2 seconds to look at that photo and he said I know that area that's my area how alala reacted to
Christine's photograph was something the detectives will never forget it almost clicked like that with them and you
could almost tell that he was reliving that that day eventually he took the photograph
set it on his lap and he used his index finger and just started tracing her body
tracing her body for probably 5 minutes and eventually he sat the paper down flat and he started tapping tapping
on the photograph of Christine right over Christine's body just tapping the photograph and eventually the tapping
got louder I got louder he eventually looked at me as he kept tapping on the photo
and at that point I I honestly thought he would provide us more information about Christine but it was a game
despite his age his infirmity his close to 40 years behind bars Alcala was still
the master manipulator he'd always been he was very even Keel very the only time
he would show any type of of fervor in his voice would be when we would Point Blank ask him did you kill her and he
would say no no you're crazy you're stupid and then when I asked him was she alive when you left her and he said yes
she was alive when I left that's all the prosecutor really needed to hear the fact that he admitted he was there just
cinched it for me if he could deny killing her all he wants but the fact that he admitted is as far as I'm
concerned as a confession I decided to charge him with first de murder there would be no extradition to
Wyoming he's been in prison since 1979 why should we give him a trip a good place for Mr alala is in the the
bed we left him in so alala was never tried for Christine's murder but Kathy Thorton has finally
learned what happened to her sister along with seven other families she has the answer to the question
none of them ever wanted to ask how many others are there that you know did did the same thing
Chris did I honestly believe in my mind in my heart that that there's going to be other
victims seeing how arrogant he is knowing how uh Charming he apparently was back in the day and knowing how
smart he is um I wouldn't doubt it if there's 150 maybe even 200 victims out there I'm hoping that with this being
back in the news that someone might recognize someone in one of those photos like we did
[Music] [Music] help identify other possible victims online at 48 [Music] hours.com CBS next a mother of three
alone in her home it was an execution this was somebody who was there with a purpose a shadowy figure seen on camera
puts a neighborhood on edge were people scared that there was a killer loose definitely 48 Hours Prime time double
feature continues next on [Music] CBS you have a prepaid call from Lyle Menendez my name is l Menendez I'm at RJ
Donovan State Prison in San Diego California and I am here for killing my parents my brother and I were convicted
together first-degree murder verdicts for both Eric and Lyall Menendez excuse us this is a special report from the van
Courthouse both Menendez brothers have been found K how big a deal was the Menendez case well when you think back
it was huge the Mendez family was very wealthy this was Beverly Hills murders just don't typically happen Kitty was my
baby sister there was a brutal murder everyone from the gardener to the president had a view of what happened
I'm Jackie Lacy I'm the former elected district attorney of Los Angeles County a couple was sitting around watching TV
when their adult sons came in with shotguns and slaughtered them what did these parents do to deserve them there
must be a reason I just never been a kid of guilt or innocence it was always about why it
happened Jose Menendez was the self-made millionaire he was very driven very demanding the prosecutions theory was
they got tired of their lives being micromanaged they wanted to spend the money the way they wanted to spend the
money they were buying Rolex watches they were buying real estate the way that they act was not like oh my
goodness my parents are dead it was soulless it was strictly Greed from day one you believe they wanted a portion of
the money they wanted it all my name is Cliff Gardner I represent Eric and L Menendez
it's not a complex case it's a simple case they abused their whole life my dad had been molesting me he Bak me
did you ask him not to yes the brothers were claiming that we were molested by our father when we
threatened to go public they threatened to kill us and so we had to go in and kill them before they killed us I
thought he was going to kill me that night I never saw anything in a home never I have got to think that it was
their attorney's ideas that if your only way you're going to save your ass is to
say that you were molested and that's what they did it's divided the family immensely I love my cousins they
shouldn't have gone through what they went through they're not lying they were being
abused as you sit there in prison there is some news now that could really impact you and your brother's case right
yes that's pretty just sort of shocking former manuto singer Roy roselo claims he was drugged and raped by Jose
Menendez in the mid s Mano had just signed with RCA records where Menendez was a top executive we now have evidence
that makes absolutely clear that those boys were molested and if those boys were molested it would have been
manslaughter and they would be out the judge in this case if he finds that the New Evidence is credible and
the conviction should be vacated do you think the DA's office would seek a new trial I think they would spend a lot of
time thinking about it for years of incarceration you wonder when will be a fair review of this so
maybe now my hope in the case is that they'll finally walk out of prison [Music]
[Music] Lyle and Eric Menendez have been behind bars in California for more than three
three decades for the 1989 killing of their parents Jose and kitty Menendez convicted of first-degree murder and
sentenced to life in prison I really can't comment in a case that captured the nation's
attention they had no hope of ever walking free but new evidence may change that Eric chose not to speak with us for
this broadcast but Lyall did you have a prepaid call from ly Menendez this call and your telephone number will
be monitored and recorded hi Lyle can you hear me hi yeah I can hear you what did you think when you heard about these
new claims and evidence I mean for me I just was happy just a burden to be telling what happened to you and just
have so much doubt in the public air the question is not whether the Menendez brothers killed their parents they admit
that they did instead the focus of the case has long been why they did it they insist that they killed out of fear and
in self-defense after a lifetime of physical emotional and sexual abuse suffered at the hands of their parents
one of their lawyers Cliff Gardner says the New Evidence corroborates those claims and lessens their culpability if
the judge finds this evidence credible I think it is sufficient to give them a new
trial but to understand how we got here here we have to go back to the beginning
the evening of August 20th 1989 when Lyall Menendez made this call to 911 from the family's Beverly Hills
mansion Bly Hills emergency yes pleas uh what's the problem Ione kill my parents
pardon me so after officers responded to the scene then 21-year-old Lyle and 18-year-old
Eric reported that they had arrived home home to find their parents shot to death
in the family room Jackie Lacy was a deputy district attorney in Los Angeles at the time I think one of the Beverly
Hills detective described it as one of the most brutal crime scene he had ever seen in his life I've been in this
business for over 33 years and I've heard of very few murders that were more Savage than this one was Jose Menendez a
former top executive at RCA records and his wife Kitty had been shot multi multiple times at close range with a
shotgun it was an expression of hatred for these two people and that was the last time I saw her alive Milton
Anderson Kitty's older brother still remembers receiving the news my brother called me and he said that kitty and
Jose were were dead I loved her sister Kitty was a very ambitious girl she was a very beautiful woman
Kitty and Jose met when they were in college in Illinois Jose had come to the US from Cuba they went on to marry and
start a family Lyall and Eric were their only children over the years with Kitty
by his side Jose excelled in his career working for RCA records among other major companies he was going right up
the ladder without any hesitation at the time of his death Jose was working for a
film Studio running their home video division investigators initially suspected that the killings may have
been tied to his business dealings Lyall sort of indicated you know my dad dealt
with Shady characters and once you say something like that detectives are going to start to look at okay what were his
business contacts family members and investigators wondered whether it may have been Mafia related at the time the
home video industry was known for having ties to the Mob everybody's said was a modit because it was so brutal it it
really was like a scene out of The Godfather movies initially Lyle and Eric Menendez were not even on investigators
radar they didn't do any gunshot residue test on their hands they let him go back
and get evidence without even thinking hey could it have been the kids but they didn't stay off investigator's radar for
long their behavior in the wake of the crime eventually Drew scrutiny the brothers appeared to be spending their
their parents' money and lots of it they were investing in businesses they acted like they had won
the lottery and their Behavior at their parents' Memorial Services raised some eyebrows at the podium L read a letter
from Jose that was filled with love and pride for his sons did you see Lyle get emotional as he was reading that letter
no l also made a statement that his father always said you can never fill my shoes and he jokingly said guess what
I'm wearing my father's shoes today struck you as odd that he would say something like that I was very odd while
all that may have seemed unusual it wasn't hard evidence but then about 6 months later police got a tip from an
unlikely Source the girlfriend of a psychologist who Lyle and Eric Menendez had been talking to she told police that
the brothers had confessed to the killings in therapy and there was an audio taped recording of it but for that
confession who knows whether they've ever been caught on March 8th 1990 after police got their hands on that tape Lyle
Menendez was taken into custody Eric Menendez who was out of the country at the time surrendered to police days
later not many Hollywood murder mysteries ever took a more dramatic turn than police are describing in a cple
couple of savage Beverly Hills killings police say the motive was apparently money a $14 million inheritance to be
shared by the brothers but years later when the case made its way to trial the brothers would
make it clear that it might not be so simple and August 20th 1989 did you and your brother kill your
mother and father why did you kill your parents cuz we were afraid [Music] in the summer of
1993 nearly 4 years after Jose and kitty Menendez were gunned down in their home their sons Lyle and Eric Menendez
went on trial they faced the death penalty good afternoon the only question in this case
is why did these killings occur why they were killed is what the focus of all of
our evidence will be on what the defense was arguing was that since this was a self-defense case the brothers were
deserving of a lesser charge and Punishment the defense attorneys who tried the case didn't respond to our
request for an interview Cliff Gardner represents Lyall and Eric Endz today they had the defense of imperfect
self-defense imperfect self-defense meaning the brothers honestly believe that they had to take action to save
their lives even though it might not seem rational and if it's honest but unreasonable you are coupable of
manslaughter not of murder both brothers took the stand ly Menendez spoke of sexual abuse at the hands of his mother
and father he said his father began sexually abusing him when he was only 6 years old he would uh fondle me and he
would ask me to do the same with him over time he said it became worse he right me but while Lyall said
his father stopped sexually abusing him when he was eight Eric said it never ended for him and that he finally
confided in his older brother days before the crime at age 18 I didn't know what to do at the time so I figured i'
tell Lyall and maybe he could help me he started telling me that one of the reasons he had never told me before was
cuz my dad had always threatened his life the brothers testified that Lyle soon confronted their parents and that
their mother indicated she knew about the abuse all along in Anger Lyle said he directed a threat at his father I
told him that I would tell everybody then he said we all make choices in life son Eric made his you've made yours what
did you think was going to happen I thought we were in danger I thought he had no he felt he had no
choice but to what that he would kill us the brothers testified that they got into another argument with their parents
on the night of the crime and that they believed their parents were about to kill them to keep the family secret from
coming out so they said they grabbed shotguns that they had bought two days earlier for protection went into the
family room and started shooting their parents at one point even stopping to reload and what did you do after you
reloaded I ran around shot my mom the defense call us next witness to bolster their claims of abuse the
defense called to the stand numerous relatives friends and acquaintances of the family who described incidents of
physical and emotional abuse that they said they observed Alan Anderson Lyall and Eric's cousin was one of those
Witnesses growing up Allan would spend summers at the Mendez home he had a lot to say about Jose hitting the kids with
the belt never had a problem with that and kitty she wouldn't get up to consult the children nothing while none of the
witnesses including Alan ever saw Lyle or Eric Menendez being sexually abused Allan did recall something that struck
him as odd Jose would tell the boys in the bedroom and then he would close the door and then he'd take showers with him
he says during that time Kitty wouldn't let him go near the room so I was not allowed while the boys were alone with
Jose with the door closed in the master bedroom to go down the hall to probably not hear whatever I may hear another
cousin Diane vandermolen gave similar testimony and she also recounted a conversation she says she had with Lyle
when he was eight um he proceeded to indicate to me by touching himself uh down and and saying that his dad and him
had been touching each other down there and what did you do I went and got Kitty
and uh told her what was going on and what happened when Kitty came down she didn't believe me Andy Cano yet another
cousin also took the stand and testified about a conversation he says he had with
Eric when Eric was about 13 He told me his father was massaging his he told me never to reveal it to
anybody still prosecutors argued that even even if Lyall and Eric Mendez were abused it doesn't give them the right to
kill and they pointed out that when the brothers confessed to that psychologist they never mentioned abuse or
self-defense then the timing of disclosure was convenient the prosecutors who tried the case didn't
respond to our request for an interview former Los Angeles County DA Jackie Lacy
reviewed portions of the trial at our request and people do make things up when they're life is on the
line but all these years later ly Menendez maintains they are telling the truth and the reason they didn't come
forward then was complicated what was holding you back just shame just not wanting it to be public the pure nature
of the crime however says Lacy doesn't support the brother's claim that they acted in
self-defense prosecutors pointed out that Jose and kitty were watching TV at the time they were killed and they
weren't armed in order to get close enough to blow somebody away you would have been able to see that they didn't
have weapons ly Menendez is adant that he and his brother were in fear for their lives for me it was
just dark and confusing and total belief that there was danger you know it's f flight to a degree that was Panic the
prosecution argued the evidence proves the killings were premeditated when the brothers purchased those shotguns
prosecutors said that they took steps to cover their tracks like driving to a gun
store all the way in San Diego San Diego is not a Round the Corner Drive last time I checked it was
2 hours sometimes after they killed their parents they went around and picked up the expend
shotgun shell casings so that their fingerprints wouldn't be discovered on those shells there was a lot of thought
and a lot of deliberation that went into it they also got rid of the shotguns made that 911 call who is the person
that was shot my mom and my dad and misled the initial investigators prosecutors pointed to
money as the motive they said Jose man has told his sons he had removed them from his will and based on their
investigation they suggested that after the crime Lyall Menendez attempted to destroy a will on the family computer
Lyle denies doing that and insists money had nothing to do with what happened if
there was a new will it was never found we never had any financial problems with
my parents although the brothers were tried together there were two separate juries deciding their fate when
deliberations began they stretched on for weeks before both juries determined they were divided over whether Lyle and
Eric Mendez should be convicted of murder or manslaughter therefore I find that the jury is hopelessly
deadlocked a mistrial was declared it was just a devastating result I needed it to be over one way or
the other but it was far from over prosecutors would try the case again they needed a win the heat was
[Music] [Music] on nearly 2 years passed as Lyall and Eric Mendez sat in jail awaiting a
second trial some of their family members like Alan Anderson believed that they were justified in the killings I
know they did what they did because they were in fear of their life While others
like Kitty's brother Milton Anderson considered them coldblooded Killers I don't believe that Jose or Kitty would
do any of the things that they were accused of Jose was changing his will and that's when they went on bought the
shotguns at the retrial which began in October 1995 one jury instead of two would hear
the casee no video cameras were allowed in court and a new team of prosecutors would employ a different strategy the
first trial was okay there may have been abuse but we don't allow vigilantes in our society the second trial the
prosecution's case there was no abuse at all and what made it easier for prosecutors to argue that says attorney
Cliff Gardner is the fact that the prosecution raised new and successful objections to the admission of a large
amount of Defense evidence now the jury would hear from only some not all of the witnesses who knew the
Menendez family and helped corroborate the brother's claims of abuse the da was not going to take another loss they
could not take another loss the judge who had also presided over the first trial excluded the testimony on the
grounds that it was irrelevant repetitive and in some instances lacking in Foundation because this time Lyall
Menendez would not not take the stand Eric did testify why did you decide not to
speak uh for two reasons I was just done after the first trial and I didn't have
the attorney that I trusted so much to ask me these deep personal questions but Carol Nara the only surviving lead
prosecutor from the second trial who declined to speak with us suggested in a 1996 interview there might have been
another reason why Lyall didn't take the stand there were things that had been developed since the first trial that
would have damaged his credibility a great deal prosecutors said they had new evidence that Lyle had asked a friend
and a former girlfriend to fabricate testimony Lyle admits to 48 hours that he did do that but says he later
withdrew those requests because Lyall didn't take the stand his cousin Diane Vander Mullen was
prohibited from testifying about that conversation she says she had with Lyle when he was eight in which she says
Lyall told her that his father was touching him the jury did still hear from cousin Andy Cano about that similar
conversation he claimed to have had with a 13-year-old Eric but the prosecution attacked his credibility the state's
position was that Andy was a liar and when cousin Alan Anderson took the stand prosecutors attacked his credibility too
bringing up the fact that ly Menendez gave him money after the crime Anderson says it was to help pay for a medical
procedure he didn't say anything like well if I go to court know or no he it was just straight up between him and I
him being a nice cousin knowing I was in financial bind he knew he had the resources to help me at the second trial
prosecutors placed more of a focus on the brutality of the crime and they painted Jose as a restrained loving
father someone incapable of M leting his children prosecutors referred to the brother's defense as the abuse
excuse in the first trial the defense called more than 50 Witnesses this time they called about half it wasn't that
they didn't want to present them they were not allowed the jury deliberated for days
and then the verdicts are in in the retrial of Eric and ly Menendez guilty of first-degree murder
I hugged my brother we cried and I said look we're going to be okay I was not happy at all at the jury's
recommendation the brothers were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of
parole and you believe they deserved that oh what they did to my sister they should have gotten a death
penalty Lyle and Eric Mendez were sent to separate prisons more than two decades p and then around 2020 the case
made a surprising Resurgence on social media following a documentary that aired on the case in which Eric Menendez
repeated his claims of abuse droves of people took to Tik Tok and Instagram to express support for him and his brother
Dr Judy hoe is a neuroschistosomiasis I definitely think that our society has just become more knowledgeable about
trauma and the impact of sexual trauma Dr Ho says research shows that just because the brothers delayed reporting
abuse it doesn't mean they made it up that's all very consistent with people who have been through trauma and maybe
feel like it was even their own fault in some ways or they're ashamed of the trauma and there's a lot more
self-stigma and shame associated with male victims she also says that the abuse the brothers describe could even
help explain why the crime was so brutal it makes sense that in that moment it's
almost like a breakdown and that's not to make an excuse for anything that they've done but it's just to describe
the State of Mind of this is years and years of abuse where they couldn't act to protect themselves and once they
pulled the trigger it was like there was no turning back but could Lyall and Eric
Mendez have truly been in fear for their lives that night they're 18 and 21 why couldn't they leave right well
certainly there was a path that they could have taken is to try to get away from the family but it sounds like even
at that age they were very much under the control of their father still I think that often times what people are
not aware of is that trauma completely rewires the brain they probably did think at one point it was either them or
their parents that it was a fight ORF flight conditioning that had come up attorney Cliff Gardner believes the case
would be tried differently today the idea back then was a dads don't molest their children and if by chance it
happened these are 18 and 21 year old kids they're strapping young men they just leave and both those I think are
undercut in what we know today still a better understanding of the effects of sexual abuse and some social media
support would do little on their own to make a difference in the brother's case legally instead what their defense
needed was new evidence and eventually that's what it gone not did you or Eric think that another person would accuse
your father of child molestation I did not I could not believe [Music] it over the years Lyall and Eric Mendez
appealed their convictions but were unsuccessful it seemed unlikely that they would ever see beyond Prison Walls
but then new evidence began to surface the first piece in the form of a letter just kind of out of the blue one
of uh my father's sister found a letter in store pellet attorney Cliff Gardner says
the letter was written by Eric Menendez to his cousin Andy Cano in in December 1988 about 8 months before the crime
it's not dated but you were able to get a frame of reference of the timing of it
based on the contents of the letter exactly he talks about the Christmas party we know the Christmas party that
they put on was in Christmas of 88 he talks about hiring a new tennis coach there's a number of things in the letter
that allow us to authenticate when it was written and it's a particular section of the letter that Gardner says
is key he says I've been trying to avoid Dad it's still happening Andy but it's worse
for me now every night I stay up thinking he might come in I'm afraid he's crazy he's warned me a hundred
times about telling anyone especially l no one knew about it a trial it was never
presented remember Andy Cano did testify at both trials he said that Eric Mendez
at age 13 confided in him that his dad had been touching him prosecutor suggested that Cano was lying he
explained to me that these massages that his father was giving him were beginning
to hurt the letter is significant why well the state's position was that Andy was a
liar Andy was making it up this shows that Andy wasn't making it up it's contemporaneous evidence from Eric to
his cousin Andy about what was happening but the letter was just the beginning more evidence has surfaced that Gardner
says further supports Lyall and Eric Mendes's long-standing claims that they were sexually
abused a man named Roy roselo has come forward claiming that he was sexually abused by Jose Menendez too well I was a
member of the boy band menudo which was big in late '70s mid 80s there a sensation in the Spanish
speaking world and throughout Latin America their appeal has caught on big menudo originated in Puerto Rico the
band is best known for producing bigname Talent like singer Ricky [Music] Martin the idea behind the band was to
keep it perpetually young few of the performers remained in the group beyond the age of 16 instead being rotated out
for younger talents it turns out Jose Menendez had ties to the group Jose Menendez was working at
RCA at the time and RCA signed mudo to a recording contract former menudo member
Roy roselo now 54 was not available for an interview with 48 hours but in a sworn affidavit filed just last year he
claims he went to Jose menendez's home in the early 80s at the direction of the band's then manager Edgardo Diaz marelo
would have been between 14 and 15 years old at the time he says he drank a glass
of wine then felt like he had no control over his body he says Jose Menendez took him to a
room and raped him roselo first spoke publicly about the allegations in a documentary
[Music] [Music] anymore roselo also alleges that he was sexually abused by Jose Menendez on two
other occasions right before and right after a performance at Radio City Music Hall in New York I met Roy and he talked
to me about it it was a difficult conversation for him it was difficult for me to hear but I thought Roy was
credible it can take years for people to recognize what happened to have the courage to come
forward when I first heard I cried for me it was very meaningful to just have things come out that caused
people to really realize okay at least this part of what it's about is true ly Menendez says he remembers mudo
band members coming over to the family home when they lived in New Jersey before moving to Beverly Hills he does
not recall all Rell specifically what do you remember about the mudo band members
going to your home only that my father had sort of intimate involvement with that particular group they usually would
not have too much involvement with groups other than negotiations but with Mano and Ardo Diaz he traveled with them
he went to their concerts he stayed in hotels that they stayed at ly Menendez says he didn't think much
of it until rumored began surfacing towards the end of he and his brother's first trial people in the industry were
talking about that maybe something had happen because there was a sex scandal in the
group Roso along with other former menudo members have long accused Edgardo Diaz the band's one-time manager of
sexual abuse Diaz has always denied the allegations and no charges have been filed against him the Los Angeles Police
Department recently investigated a specific incident in which Roso alleged Diaz raped him at this hotel in the
1980s the LA County DA's office is now reviewing the case but what does this new evidence mean in terms of Lyall and
Eric menendez's case importance of the New Evidence you have to look back and understand what the state's position was
at the second trial the state's position was that the sexual abuse never happened and the state's position as to
Jose Menendez was he wasn't the type of person who would molest a young boy this
new evidence takes both both those arguments and undercuts them entirely Gardner has filed a habous
petition asking that his clients convictions be vacated the boys were abused his children they were abused
their whole life and this is a manslaughter case not a murder case it's just that
simple and if they were convicted of manslaughter they would have received a much shorter sentence and been out a
long time ago but will a judge by Gardner's argument it is very very possible that Jose
Mendez was a child molester but you don't get to murder him and his wife in Cold
Blood what do you make of the New Evidence to see a timeline of how the case unfolded go to 48 hours.com
[Music] after attorney Cliff Gardner filed the habus petition in May 2023 asking that
Lyall and Eric Menendez convictions be vacated it turned into a waiting game for a judge to rule we ask former da
Jackie Lacy what she makes of the New Evidence starting with that letter one that appears to have been written by
Eric Menendez to his cousin Andy Cano months before the the crime the interesting thing about the letter is
that there are only two people who can authenticate it Andy Kano and Eric Mendez Andy Cano died in 2003 and Lacy
points out that he never mentioned the letter when he testified you would think when Andy was
on the stand twice he'd have brought that up and oh yeah he told me about it recently and here's the letter the
timing of that letter though you are able to sort of pin down because you know it was holidays because he writes
about his Christmas plans but Natalie look at it another way and you could include those details and get that
letter together after they were caught this letter for all we know could have been written by Eric Menendez shortly
after the murder given to Kano and Kano may have gotten cold feed about it and not submitted it but Gardner argues the
New Evidence is sound he says the reason the letter was not brought up at is likely because Eric Menendez and Andy
Cano forgot about it if you look at the letter it's not just about what Jose's been doing it's about all sorts of other
things it was just one of many letters that they wrote to each other there really shouldn't be any doubt about the
authenticity of the letter and as for Roy roselo the former menudo band member can you discount his claims Al together
no I think what the judge has to weigh and consider is is this new discovered evidence that would have changed the
verdict and Lacy says she does not believe it would have they're still stuck with the planning the cover up the
money that they spent afterwards I think that you could argue the sexual abuse occurred on the other hand at the moment
these men are driving down to San Diego paying for the murder weapons coming back and waiting for an opportune time
to go in and kill their parents the molestation is not occurring right then I do not believe that at the time they
murdered them that they were in danger at that particular minute of being murdered by those people I think they
hated them they might have had a good reason to hate them but we can't condone vigilantism when you calmly and
logically looked at the facts surrounding the killing it's a murder but Gardner believes the New Evidence
would have made a difference to the jurors he says evidence of abuse can mitigate a crime and that's why
prosecutors fought so hard to keep it out of the second trial sexual abuse physical abuse is relevant to your state
of mind uh and state of mind is the key in determining whether something's murder or whether something's
man what this evidence does is it puts you back in the situation that they were in with the first trial that there was
corroboration for the abuse and in the first trial remember two juries were divided over whether the brothers should
have been convicted of murder or manslaughter the court declares a mistrial Gardner thinks this new
evidence combined with that of the first trial rules out murder entirely My Hope
in the case is that the judge will realize that this new evidence is indeed credible and persuasive and he'll vacate
the convictions if that happens it would be up to the loss Angeles County District Attorney's Office whether to
retry the case in a statement the District Attorney's office said it is investigating the claims made in the
habus petition Alan Anderson wants to see his cousins released what I would say the prosecut the judge would be
please look at all of the evidence they are speaking the truth they shouldn't be in there as long as they've been but
still Kitty menendez's brother Milton Anderson feels just the opposite he says he doesn't believe the New Evidence is
credible I don't think it's evidence and he wants his nephews to stay put I think
they should die of old age in prison I loved my sister and I protected her in life and I will love my sister
and protect her in her death ly Menendez says he understands his uncle's Pain part of my remorse is for the pain that
calls people like him as they await a judge's decision ly and Eric Menendez who reside in the same prison since 2018
are focused on Rehabilitation and continuing their education I connect with other prisoners
that have sex abuse histories and work with them both brothers are married to women outside prison I think it has made
a huge difference to have love and support like that I try not to be defined by that one
night and sort of a life Journey not to be defined by that one [Music] night new CBS next a former state
trooper's wife found dead in her bathtub it was a gunshot but was it a cover up for murder Dan thought he was smart
enough to trick everybody the packed duffel bag wet towels it looks odd a new 48 hours next on CBS and streaming on
Paramount Plus [Music]

“48 Hours" reports on cases that were immortalized by Hollywood. Wach this YouTube marathon, which includes "The Mortician, The Murder, The Movie," "Rodney Alcala: The Killing Game" and "The Menendez Brothers’ Fight for Freedom."

00:00 The Mortician, The Murder, The Movie 41:57 Rodney Alcala: The Killing Game 1:25:05 The Menendez Brothers’ Fight for Freedom

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Bernie Titi, a funeral director, murdered wealthy widow Marjorie Nent, leading to a sensational trial and a film adaptation of the case.

Key points

A Love That Turned Deadly. The relationship between Bernie and Marjorie raises questions of trust and betrayal.
The Shocking Discovery. Marjorie Nent's body is found in a freezer, leading to a chilling revelation.
The Twisted Texas Tale. Bernie TAA's story captivates a community, raising questions about morality and justice.
A New Hope. Jod Cole believes in Bernie's innocence and seeks to overturn his conviction.
The Dating Game. Rodney Alcala, a convicted sex offender, appears on a dating show, charming contestants.
The Search for Christine Thorton. Kathy Thorton embarks on a decades-long search for her missing sister, Christine.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I think the film is asking the question can the nicest person in the world...

Exploring the complexity of Bernie's character in the film.

2:55WatchNov 9, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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