Timeline of Idaho student murders case and tracking suspect Bryan Kohberger | "48 Hours" | Forensic Files

[Music] Moscow will forever be known as a scene of one of the most tragic crimes in
American history. There's still sort of a a darkness whenever you talk to people. It will be ever part of the
university's history and the town's history. There are four very very important names
in this case. Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Xan Kernodal, and Ethan Shapen. And if you're going to
remember any names from this case, I ask that it be all four. My name is Olivia Gonzalez, and Kaye was my little sister.
Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just
like, "How can you be out there playing? My daughter's dead." You know, Kaylee Gonzalez is
gone. Stop everything. Everybody in the whole world, stop. And everything just keeps going.
[Music] My sister Zanna Kernodal is one of the happiest, funniest people I've ever met. And I had
the awesome privilege of growing up with her. And I still have a hard time coming
to terms with the facts that did happen. Brian Cobberg is accused of stabbing these four University of Idaho students
in the pre-dawn hours on November 13th, 2022. Uh the murder weapon, which was a knife, has never been found. This is
type of survival knife. Brian Coberger did not make his own plea. The judge entered a plea for him of not guilty.
Maximum penalties, life in prison, or the death penalty. Due to the nature of the crimes, the state of Idaho is
seeking the death penalty. He was there to kill. He came in with the kit. I believe he had a kill kit. And you
believe that everything right down to the implement of destruction, this large marine knife, that was all planned. All
planned. It was inhumane. You wouldn't do these type of things to any living creature, let alone an innocent human
being. The star piece of evidence in the prosecution's case is the DNA that was found on the knife sheath that was left
at the crime scene that there's so much other evidence that's also pointing towards nobody else that we're aware
of. How was Brian Cobberger's car spotted leaving the scene? Why was his cell phone seen there 12 times,
including the morning after the offense? Prosecution would like everyone to believe that it's an open andsh shut
case. But I think the facts they have make the case more open than open and shut. According to the defense, there is
no connection whatsoever between Brian Cobberger and the victims. And if there is no connection, then there is no
motive. And if there is no motive, then it becomes very hard to make the case that he is the killer. And this is a
graduate student, not a trained assassin. It's more so about putting these pieces together because I know
what the puzzle looks like at the end. I have the box in front of me, but I'm missing so many
pieces. How did all of these pieces fall to create what I'm living in right now?
Where did Where did this come from? [Music] [Music] It was not the new Steve and Christy
Gonzalves wanted to hear. In August of 2023, just 6 weeks before the murder trial of Brian Coberger was set to
begin, he waved his right to a speedy trial. Should we begin? Absolutely. They would have to wait
indefinitely for their day in court. I was really hoping that um we could get this show on the road because uh the not
knowing it just it's agony. It's [Music] agony. Steve and Christy, the parents of
Kaye, haven't left anything to chance. After the judge issued a gag order to attorneys and law enforcement, quote, to
preserve the right to a fair trial, they drilled down on their own investigation
and are now sharing what they believe that investigation found. Steve says he believes transparency is the best path
to justice. We're not going to just sit back and cross our fingers and pray that
we're going to get justice. [Music] It has been a long and painful journey for the families of Kaylee Gonzalez,
Maddie Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen. the four University of Idaho students who were savagely murdered by a
knife wielding asalent in the wee hours of November 13th, 2022 as they settled down to sleep in their off-campus house
on King Road. Do you ever dream of your sister? Yeah, I've had some dreams of her. But there's times where I prayed
and asked God to see her another time and I did and just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's
[Music] okay. Jasmine Kernodal who is speaking for the first time was a senior at
Washington State University and lived only 15 minutes away from her younger sister Zana. Often mistaken as twins
growing up, she says they were best friends. She just was always fun and she was uplifting and she took any bad
situation and turned it into a good one. Jeeoff, what did you love most about your daughter?
Everything. She cared about people. She was a people person. She cared about her friends just as much as
like her family. For the first time in her life, Zana had fallen in love with fellow student Ethan Chapen, a triplet
who loved his siblings, boats, and working on a tulip farm. The sweetest kid ever. They were just two happy
people. And there's just seeing the videos and photos of them, you can just like tell how happy they are. They were
just amazing together. Sadly, they will now forever be linked in death. On Sunday morning, November 13th,
Zana's friends started calling Jasmine, saying something bad had happened on King Road. Jasmine rushed over to Zana's
house. And while you're driving that 8, 9 miles over to the house, are you trying to reach your sister then? Mhm.
How many times do you call her? A lot. I called her a lot. Called Ethan a lot. Her next call was to her father. Jeffrey
had been visiting Jasmine for dad's weekend and was on his way home. So, you answer the phone. What do you hear? I
hear her kind of crying and just telling me to get back to Moscow and meet me at
Santa's house and you know, my heart drops. He instantly raced back down there. The house was cordoned off and
swarming with investigators. As soon as Jeffree said he was Zana's father, he and Jasmine were escorted to the Moscow
Police Department. And Jasmine, what does the officer say to you and your father? Oh, I don't remember exactly.
Just that four people passed away and that one was Santa. The worst day of your life. just your
worst nightmare. It just happened. You know what do you do? You can't do a damn thing.
100 miles away, the Gonzalez family also had been getting frantic calls saying something bad had happened to their
daughter Kaye, but no one knew what. I just kept saying over and "What do I do? What do we do? What do we do?" Finally,
at around 4:00 in the afternoon, a deputy appeared at their door and we said, "What's going on? I can confirm
your daughter's died. It's passed away." That point. He said, "There were four victims." And we and I said,
"Four?" And he said, "Yes, ma'am." I said, "Can you tell us if one of the victims was Mattie Mogan?" And he said,
"Yes, ma'am." Maddie Mogan, Kayle's best friend from childhood. give us a sense of just how
close uh Kaye and Maddie were in life. I think that they had a very amazing relationship. The epitome of true best
friends from very early. I mean, they were sisters through and through. They were um completely
inseparable. As soon as the news hit, Olivia, the eldest of the five Gonzalez children,
and her parents went into detective mode. We had zero details. We just knew they were gone. Olivia got into her
sister's call log and frantically started cold calling recent numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaye had
been at the corner club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a rid share driver
who Olivia managed to track down. The ride share driver said around 1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a
ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take her back home to 1122 King. and she had
with her another female. Olivia then uncovered one of the most important leads in the case. The ride share driver
told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck. So I was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw
the girl that she was with was Maddie. So at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together. They got into the car to
go home together and alone. The driver told her the exact time Kaye and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King
Road, 1:56 a.m. A timeline she says she confirmed before the police. I immediately took it to the police
officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the ride share driver's name. Olivia says Kaye made a call to her
boyfriend at 2:56 a.m., but he didn't answer. The Gonzalves believe Kaye fell asleep shortly after. According to the
police affidavit, Kaye and Maddie were stabbed to death between 4 and 4:25 a.m. Just as they had done since they were
little girls, they were sleeping in the same bed. Those two best friends since little
girls, I don't think there's anything more terrifying than what they went through. I really don't.
The killer took four lives in a matter of minutes, but he left behind two surviving roommates, one of whom would
provide a key description of the intruder. He was dressed in black, muscular build, and very bushy eyebrows.
[Music] If there is one picture that speaks to the Idaho student murders, it is this.
Six smiling college students blissfully unaware of the carnage to come. It's staged in a way that is
almost in a strange way ominously predicting. Investigative journalist Howard Bloom has written extensively on
the student murders for Graden Carter's online magazine Air Mail. He is now writing a book on the case. On the ends
of the picture are the two survivors. In the middle are are are the victims and they're huddled together.
Kaye with a beaming Maddie on her shoulders. Friends for life. Ethan with his arm around Zana. Young love in full
bloom. A moment that should have been a memory of their idyllic college years would eternally be a reminder of the
gruesome murders that put them in their graves. What makes it so tragic is they're forever preserved in
this moment. They'll never be able to leave this moment. Hours after this photo was taken, the
four friends would be murdered. Their deaths so violent, even the house seemed to be bleeding. There was literally
blood oozing out from the home. Uh you could see it on the exterior walls. CBS News consultant Brianna Fox is a former
FBI agent and professor of criminology at the University of South Florida. That's how bloody and gruesome the crime
scene is. According to the affidavit, which outlines law enforcement's investigation, the bodies of Zana and
Ethan, who was sleeping over, were found in or near her bedroom on the second floor. The bodies of Kaye and Maddie
were on the third floor in the same single bed in Mattiey's room. How did your daughter die in that house? What do
you know? We know the autopsy. We know the means of what is officially how she died. She was assaulted and stabbed
several several times. Her death certificate is the ugliest, disgusting piece of paper that you will ever see in
your life. And every line is a horror show. Every line. Cuz there's causes of death and then there's contributions to
death. Christy and Steve spoke to coroner Kathy Mbott before the gag order was issued
and they say she told them how the two friends were positioned in the bed. The bed was up against the wall. The
headboard was touching the wall and the left side of the bed was touching the wall and we believe that Maddie was on
the outside and Kaye was on the inside. According to coroner Mbott, the killer's
first victim was Maddie, says Steve. And then from Maddie, he moved on to your daughter. You believe she had awakened
at that point? Yes. Yeah. There's evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation. The
way the bed was set up is what she was trapped. She was trapped. We know from the affidavit that Coberger's cell phone
pinged in the vicinity of the house 12 times prior to the murders. Steve says before the gag order, one of the lead
investigators told him they believe Coberger had been scouting out the house. You believe these visits were
like he was like on an intelligence mission, a scouting mission, looking at lifestyle patterns, when they came and
went, who came to the house? Yeah, he had to know when people were coming, people were going. It makes the Gonzalez
wonder if he'd ever gone inside the house. I think that he at least had opened that door, went in, tested the
waters, looked around. Steve says the coroner told him the killer's rampage started on the third floor where both
Maddie and Kaye had their bedrooms. Christy thinks he wasn't expecting to find the two friends together in the
same bed. I do think that his plan went ary. I do think that, you know, he intended to kill one and killed four.
Brianna Fox also believes Zana and Ethan were collateral damage. According to the
affidavit, Zana received a Door Dash food delivery at 400 a.m. then went back to her room on the second floor. It's
possible, says Fox, that Zana, still awake, came face to face with the killer. And she sees somebody that she
doesn't expect. And I don't think he was expecting to see her either. One of the
two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortonson, later told the police that she heard what she thought was crying
coming from Zana's room. She heard a male voice say something to the effect, "It's okay. I'm going to help you." Not
something a killer would likely say to an intended target, says Fox. He probably was trying to make a
split-second decision. Do I run away? Do I kill her? What do I do? And he decided
to kill her. At approximately 4:17 a.m., police say an outside security camera less than 50 ft from Zana's room, picked
up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. Shortly after, Dylan, the
surviving roommate whose bedroom was near Zanna's, opened the door. According to the police affidavit, when Dylan
opens the door, she saw a man dressed in black with a black mask and she says he
has bushy eyebrows. Those bushy eyebrows become very important when the police are making their identification.
The man with the bushy eyebrows kept walking to the rear of the house without harming Dylan. Why was Dylan not killed?
Again, there is no definitive answer. He He didn't kill her because he didn't see
her. He was sort of transfixed on getting out. He didn't kill her because he was satiated. Or he was simply too
depleted to kill again, says Fox. Even stabbing somebody for a minute and a half. Not only is that overkill, but it
actually would become rather exhausting. The police believe the murder weapon, which has not been found, was a
militarystyle KBAR knife similar to this one. The details are disturbing. This is
not a civilian knife. It was actually meant to tear apart bone, ligaments, organs. So this is a extremely brutal
and something that you would never expect a person to walk in and want to commit unless they took some pleasure
out of the brutality of it. After seeing the intruder, Dylan, the surviving roommate, told investigators she locked
herself in her room. It would be almost 8 hours before 911 was called, causing an uproar on social media criticizing
Dylan's alleged inaction. But Brianna Fox says it's not unusual for people to freeze or be too afraid to intervene.
She had no reason to, you know, know how to handle herself in that moment. According to the affidavit, the male
walked towards the backsliding glass door and presumably left the scene. But committing murder and getting away with
it are two different things, says Fox. For an offender to get away with a crime, a murder, they have to bat a
thousand. They have to be absolutely perfect. They make one singular mistake. That's all it takes.
And that one possible mistake in this case may have been the sheath to the KBAR knife. One like this was found on
the bed next to Mattie Mogan. It would lead investigators to the door of a man studying for a career in
criminology. Brian Cobberger, the alleged killer. To see a timeline of the case,
go to 48 hours.com. [Music] [Music] Day after day and week after week pass and there is no suspect that is
arrested. What was that time like for you? That was the worst. For 47 days after
the murders, the families of Kaye, Maddie, Zana, and Ethan, and the country waited. We do not have a suspect at this
time and wept and weighed in. The people of Idaho and those throughout our nation who
provided information has been very impressive. We've received over 19,000 tips. Then on December 30th, 2022, Brian
Cobberger was arrested in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. At the time, his attorney
said Coberger looked forward to being exonerated. What goes through your mind when you see
the face of the alleged killer? Oh, I wonder why. Who? Who is this? Why? You know, never heard of the person before.
It still is confusing. Why? At this point, the families knew as much about Coberger as the public did. A PhD
candidate studying criminology just 10 miles away at Washington State University in Pullman.
I remember thinking, I only have a few minutes to look up this individual and to try to get any credible information
before things start getting wonky. Some of Olivia Gonzalez's online discoveries of Coberger made her uneasy. He had made
a few posts on Reddit in which he was conducting seems like a questionnaire to uh people in prison or jail who had
committed crimes. How did you pick your victim or your target? For 7 weeks, the families and the country were left
wondering. I think for this type of an investigation, 47 days is actually quick. Criminologist and CBS News
consultant Brianna Fox says the Moscow police kept things moving. Starting with a video canvas which
produced footage from those early morning hours showing a white car making three
passes by the girl's house starting around 3:30 a.m. Less than an hour later. Investigators say the killer struck.
They noticed that this car approached King Road, left, came back, uh almost did a U-turn, finally went there around
4:06 in the morning, and that car then departed in about 25 minutes and sped off.
Multiple surveillance cameras then captured that white car as it traveled what appeared to be a less direct route
back to Pullman, Washington, arriving around 5:30 a.m. That information helped investigators identify the make and
model of the vehicle. And we're looking for a 2011 to a 2013 Hyundai Elantre. Washington State Police find the car
parked outside graduate housing. Uh they get the license plate and they get Brian
Coberger's name. They then get the driver's license and they see the bushy eyebrows that in the eyes of one of the
Moscow detectives must be the eyebrows of the killer. Now armed with a warrant, investigators retrieved cell tower data
from that morning, which captured Coberger's phone around 2:47 a.m. in Pullman when it suddenly stopped
connecting to the network. According to the affidavit, this was also around the time cameras caught a white Alantra
leaving his apartment complex. There was an indication that he turned off his cell phone, which is something that a
lot of people do when they want to avoid law enforcement knowing their whereabouts. His cell phone signal was
picked up again 2 hours later south of Moscow as it traveled back toward his apartment building. The affidavit
described a deeper dive into Coberger's phone history that revealed this was a familiar neighborhood to him going back
several months. Cell phone records indicated that he has traveled past and was very near the vicinity of this crime
scene on 12 separate occasions. And towers actually captured a 13th trip just hours after the murders.
Anecdotally, a lot of killers, they like revisiting the memory of the crime. You
know, I won. I was able to get away with this and you guys won't catch me. But they had one secret weapon to make their
case. They had the knife sheath and there was a microscopic spot of DNA on this. Could they tie this DNA to Coberg?
According to the affidavit, the DNA was found on the button snap of the sheath, but when investigators ran it through
the national database, there were no matches. It's unclear if Brian Coberger knew law enforcement was watching when
he left Washington in mid December. Coberger and his father, who had flown in from Pennsylvania, drove back home
together in his white elantra. Coberger, from what I've heard, tells the father that he's in trouble with his his job.
He's concerned enough about his son to want to make the drive back with him. On the 2500 mile journey from Washington,
they are stopped twice for traffic violations. Hello. What's also interesting is
Coberger's reaction to the police. Is this your car? Okay, cool. He's pretty calm and cool.
Father and son made it home to Alrightesville, Pennsylvania, where Bloom says investigators initiated a
stealth operation. What they did is they sent a team of Pennsylvania state troopers to Coberger's family's house.
Law enforcement recovered Coberger's father's DNA from the trash outside their home, which tested as a high
probability it was the biological father of whoever left DNA on the knife sheath.
So that was the Eureka moment which they decided they could get an arrest warrant. At that point, they made the
arrest of Brian Cobberger and they got a separate essentially search warrant for
his DNA. And when investigators compared his DNA to the DNA on the knife sheath,
they say it was a statistical match. At least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Coberers than anyone else.
[Music] [Music] Where you sit today, are you certain that Brian Coberger is the killer with
what you know? I don't trust anybody or anything. So, I have to see it myself. I
have to see everything. As the months pass, Steve and Christy Gonzalez remain a united front in
wanting justice, but their weight has brought different perspectives. Your mind is still open to the potential of
course that it could have been someone else. Of course. Yep. I go into that 100%. Yep. Of course.
That's not where you are. No. No, that's fine. I don't think there's any slam dunk.
Criminologist Brianna Fox says with the gag order in place, any hint of Coberger's defense has come from court
documents. It seems that the defense is alleging there was a rush to judgement. Law enforcement made an arrest too fast
and they focused on their client too quickly. A defense filing did reveal Coberger's
alibi for the night of the murders. It simply stated Mr. Coberger was out driving alone. The defense is not
necessarily having to prove that he's innocent. They just have to raise doubt. Both Fox and Howard Bloom think the
defense can find ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case, challenging some of the key evidence presented in the
affidavit, including the cell phone location data and the white Elantra. There's other concerns such as whether
Brian Cobberger's car was accurately identified at the onset or if that was revised after knowing what Brian
Coberger drove. The cell phone data makes one suspicious of Coberger, but it's not
convincing. It's not putting someone at someone's doorstep. It's putting someone
in someone's neighborhood. If you can raise doubts about the validity and the accuracy of the
cell phone data, I think you're half way there to getting the case against Coberger. Either a hung jury or a
not-uilty verdict. And there's more. According to the defense, that there was no DNA or
forensic evidence found from the crime scene at the apartment, car, office, or on Brian Cobberger's person. So, they
were basically alleging how could he have committed such a brutal murder and yet have no evidence found on him of
that. After consulting their own investigators, Christy and Steve theorize that Coberger likely brought
what they call a kill kit with him. What do you mean by a kill kit? I think he had a backpack, change of clothes. We
don't know if it was covers, pants, hoodie. We don't know. A defense filing also claimed the
presence of other unidentified male DNA was found on the premises. Three separate and distinct male DNA profiles
were found from the crime scene. Two were inside the house. One was outside on a glove. The defense wants to know
who are these people and what role could they have played in this whole story. So
what the defense is doing now is trying to look for other narratives that make sense.
Howard Bloom has written extensively about this case, including a piece on a possible alternative defense theory
involving drugs. Maybe someone had renegged on a drug payment and this was a retribution of vengeance for people
not paying for drugs they had ordered. I want you guys to respond to one thing that's out there because speculation
that somehow drugs were involved in this attack. That's just Hollywood nonsense.
I I just dismiss that because I I understand our society wants to believe in some of these movies that they watch.
They don't have these crazy lives where they're crossing paths with people like that. That story line of it being drugs
gives people a reason to think why it happened because nobody knows why. And the reason I think it happened is
because he wanted to. That's what he wanted to do. He wanted to commit a murder. Brian Coberger's defense
attorneys argue there's a lack of evidence linking their client to the students. The defense is claiming that
the defendant, Brian Coberger, and the victims have absolutely no connection. There's no motive. In the minutes after
Brian Coberger was publicly named, the Gonzalez family went online. They just told us the name and we immediately
started googling. They believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram and
immediately took these screenshots. From our investigation of the account, it appeared to be the real Brian Cobberger
account. Among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee
Gonzalez. in addition to several people with the name Coberger. But when we looked through those, it appeared to
have other family members that were related to him. At first, Steve, who works in it, was skeptical, thinking
someone created a fake account immediately following Coberger's arrest. But according to the family, they
uncovered more possible connections. You would go to Mattiey's Instagram account
and look at her pictures and he liked them. Brian's name was under a lot of Mattie's pictures like that picture and
that picture and that picture and that picture. So, he was actively looking at the Instagram
accounts and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this particular account had some type of
connection with the with the victims. 48 hours has not confirmed the authenticity of this account, which has
since been deleted, and the gag order prevents investigators from [Music] commenting. After dedicating months
looking for their own answers, the Gonzalez say they are mentally prepared for trial, no matter when it begins. I
think he's done. He's going to feel all of us just staring at the back of his head. And
he's going to know that we are the Gonzalis family. And he knows what he did to our daughter.
[Music] How could this happen to a group of kids that are doing everything the way
they're supposed to do? To not known is what keeps you awake at night. And it's every day, all day. It
never stops. Why? Why? Why? There is no why. It is as unexplainable today as it was
the day Kaylee Gonzalez, Maddie Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen were murdered.
I wish I wish we knew. They were all four of them were just such great people and made such an impact on the lives
around them. For now, the families are left with thoughts of what might have been.
Kaylee Jade Gonzalez has been recommended to receive aostumous bachelor's degree. Her family will
receive the diploma of the University of Idaho. On May 13th, 2023, exactly 6 months from
the day of the murders, an occasion that would have been a cause for celebration,
graduation was instead another reminder of what was lost. Seeing all those graduation photos, it
just they should be here. Graduation is just one of many milestones that will be missed.
She would have been my maid of honor and I probably would have been hers and it's
like sad to have to go through those life moments without her. Jasmine Kernodal planned to work side by
side with her sister Zana creating their own marketing business. It's just not the same without her
because she just brought like such a crazy different energy than anybody else I've ever met.
Kaylee Gonzalez's future was in sight. She had accepted a job in Austin working for an IT firm. Kaye not only pushed
herself, say her parents, but pushed them. We lost that person that would force us to make new memories and force
us to go and take on something that seems a little daunting at first. One of you guys, guys. For the Gonalves, amid
all the loss, there was an addition to the family. when in February Olivia gave birth to a baby girl. So her name is
Theodora Maddie K. Obviously Mattie Kay is after Maddie and Kaye. And if one were to believe in
signs, there were says Olivia several with Theodora Matt Kay's arrival. In the hospital, her room number
1113 was the same as the date of the murders, November 13th. and eerily the time of birth 4:21 a.m.
is in the time frame that Kaye and Maddie are believed to have been killed. To have birth and life and firsts, first
giggles, first walks that they would be there somehow, you know, even if it's just a namesake.
This is the Gonzalez family. Maddie has truly been a blessing in our lives. I'm Zana's sister. The families of Kaye,
Maddie, Zana, and Ethan have all searched for ways, sometimes together, to cope with a horrible new normal, and
we all are always going to be there for each other, and it's just difficult. We all We're all going through it in our
own ways. For Ethan's parents, Stacy and Jim Chapen, one way of coping involves creating a foundation. Ethan's smile.
Ethan just had a great smile. I mean, he smiled all the time. Raising money for scholarships by selling tulips planted
in honor of Ethan, who had worked at a tulip farm. So, Ethan will live on through the foundation. That's what
motivates us to to do this. How do you live with this, Jeff? It's not [Music] easy. Just got to keep going, you know?
I think just like living our lives like Zana would want us to. I know that she would want us to talk about the life
that she lived and to be her voice right now. She had a beautiful smile. Her and
Maddie, the memories that we shared, we don't do it lightly because they are very private memories and sometimes it
feels like I'm giving away a part of them. But I do it for the importance to realize how great of a loss it
is because nothing's going to bring them back. [Music] CBS next Saturday. 48 Hours brings you
backtoback episodes all summer long. Next week, Beachside Homicide. How could a single mom be executed in Cape Cod? I
was knocked unconscious. I couldn't protect her. 48 hours prime time double feature next
Saturday on CBS and streaming on Paramount [Music] Plus. Welcome to Postmortem, a new
companion podcast to 48 hours. So, I'm your host, CBS News correspondent Ann Marie Green, and each week, we will take
you behind the scenes with correspondents and producers who know these stories best. We go deeper into
each episode, explaining how the reporting came together and their personal experiences with investigating
these crimes. Now, not only do I report for 48 hours, but I am personally a huge
fan of the show. So, I'm really excited to take a closer look at these cases with the 48 Hours team to hear their
stories, including, you know, brand new details. And we're talking about details
that never made it into the episodes. We're going to start though by answering some of your biggest questions about the
Idaho student murders. This is a case that captivated and continues to captivate the country. And joining me
now is longtime 48 hours correspondent Peter Vans and producer Liza Finley. Welcome guys. So good to have you guys
here. Thanks Amarie. We're very happy to be here. Yeah, this postmortem is is something we dream about because so we
have so much information particularly on this story that we can't get to in the limited time. So, this is a wonderful
opportunity to expand and and share with our our our viewers and listeners in this case uh some new details. Before we
get to our postmortem, let's listen to an overview of this week's episode. It's been a long and painful journey for
the families of Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen,
the four University of Idaho students who were stabbed to death in the pre-dawn hours of November 13th, 2022.
Do you ever dream of your sister? Yeah, I've had some dreams of her. Just gives me some peace knowing
that I know she's okay. Zana Kernodal's sister Jasmine and father Jeffrey are speaking out for the
first time since Santa's murder. It just happened. You know what do you do? You can't do a damn thing.
Everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just
like, "How can you be out there playing? My daughter is dead." On the night of the murders, Christy and
Steve Gonzalez's daughter, Kaye, was in the same bed as her childhood friend, Maddie Mogan. The Gonzaleves say coroner
Kathy Mbott told them before a gag order the killer attacked Maddie first, then moved on to Kaye. There's evidence to
show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation. The way the bed was set up is what she was trapped. She
was trapped. A judge has entered a plea of not guilty on Brian Coberger's behalf.
The murders of college students Ethan Chapen, Madison Mogan, Zana Kernodal, and Kaylee
Gonzalez shocked the country in November of 2022 and really captured the attention of the country. I think part
of it had to do with how that this is a time in your life that is supposed to be
one of the best times in your life and every photo that you saw of them was bursting with
life. So the idea that those lives were cut short I think really shook a lot of people.
This is such a deeply personal story. uh perhaps the most that I've ever been involved with. I'm a father of six. Six
who have all gone to university. I attended Washington State University 8 miles from where this murder scene was
located. And when I went to school there, the idea of crime might be a kid stealing a candy bar from a store. It
was just simply unheard of. So, it's deeply personal. and and to connect with with the family, the Gonzalez's Christy
and Steve, and to speak with Jasmine and Jeffrey Kernodal. Jasmine is Zana's sister, and Jeffrey her dad was the most
profound interviews I think I I have ever done. And Liza was was in on this. We were all so moved. It was so
emotional. It really was. You know, genuinely had tears in my eyes at times. And as I watched this hour for the
eighth time, I still get tears in my eyes cuz it's the sense of loss is profound and it is felt all over the
world. And you're right, Anmarie, this time of innocence, the adventure of learning, the deep friendships formed at
university. And to see it interrupted like this allegedly by a person they still don't have a motive for um just
shocked everyone. The consolidates, they moved to the general area because they wanted a safe place to raise their kids.
Yeah. They It's talk about ironic. They lived in California. It was getting kind
of dangerous there. They felt they have five children. So, they went on a road trip and we were going to find America's
best place to live, the safest place to raise our family. And they settle on this beautiful, beautiful little town in
Idaho. And lo and behold, just few hours away by car where where Kaye went to school, the worst crime imaginable
happened. And they regret moving. You know, they go, "If only we hadn't moved." There's also something else I
wanted to mention at this point that the Gonzalez shared with us that we weren't
able to to get into our broadcast. Their daughter Kaylee uh Gonzalez uh was a true crime fanatic. She watched
all these shows. She loved watching 48 hours and she was she was concerned enough about crime that she would take
notes. Her her mom said during the broadcast and she came up with a plan of action. Hey, if any of us are ever
assaulted, if we're ever in a crime situation like we've seen on 48 hours in these other shows, this is what we
should do. She actually typed it out. And the family had a nickname for her. They called her the protector because of
this. And I talked to Christy about it. Can you imagine the horror when the worst possible nightmare, in this case
it's not a cliche, is occurring. her best friend in life, Maddie, killed alongside her and now the asalent is
attacking her. You know what? One of the ironies though, which you were talking about her philosophy after being such a
true crime show fanatic was separate. I'll go you right, you go left, so one of us will survive and be
able to call the police and come to your rescue. Well, those two young women were
killed in the same bed. They didn't have a chance to separate. She was trapped. Kaylee was trapped.
There are so many components of this that sort of give you chills. Um, you focus on the families, which cannot be
easy. I can't imagine it was easy to get them to talk. We have a uh a a great um
colleague out in California named Greg Fiser who had uh established a relationship with the family when we did
our first hour uh earlier in in 2023. I did a a Zoom interview with Steve Gonzalez and I felt as though we had
really connected. You know, they said, "Okay, you've got five minutes." cuz he was going from reporter to reporter and
we really connected and we talked for 25 minutes and and when that story ran uh we understood that the family
appreciated how respectful we were. There was no sensationalism. This is 48 hours. This is CBS News. And that
connection continued. And so Greg Fischer was talking with with the family out there and said, "Peter would really
like to sit down and have a longer conversation with you." And because and Liza is really strong on on this, they
believe that transparency and getting these words out is important for them to find justice, they agreed to the
interview. Mhm. There's a gag order. Mhm. And that was issued by the judge and it basically uh prohibits attorneys,
law enforcement, officials from speaking. So Steve feels very strongly that that is not in the best interest of
justice because there have been so many rumors, so much false information out there that he believes that real
journalists, real officials should be dispelling these these false falsities. So he he agreed to this very
long interview, six, seven hours. Yeah, I heard Peter is legendary for his long interviews. He is famous for that in our
shop. We're going to go two more hours on this. Um, but it was great. It was they were extraordinary. And once you
know people families, everyone has to remember this. Families that have gone through this
this kind of shocking trauma. They don't interview one another, right? That's not
the way we talk. All of us have lost someone in our families. when that's happened in in my case, I don't
interview my sisters about how you're feeling in things. And so sometimes when when a person like myself comes into the
picture, it's such a catharsis for them. There's so much they want to say. What I
valued about it is their willingness to pull us into this moment in their life, which is the most painful moment that
they will ever experience. And it's going it's going it's not a moment, it's their life now. Um, but we often, you
know, sometimes when we tell these stories and 48 hours is an excellent job at being compassionate and fair, but it
is an hour and a whole case and we don't sort of get a chance to slow down and be
reminded of the human victims that are still alive. Zanna's sister Jasmine has never spoken before. Um, her father
Jeffrey never spoken before. Um, and in this case, you you didn't pre-in them. You didn't get a chance to talk to them
ahead of time. No, not not at all. Not with the Gonzalez's either. But, you know, I prefer I prefer that. I prefer
that we get to know each other in the course of this interview. You always begin very gently. You talk about the
the the sister that she loved, the daughter that he loved, and you work your way into the details. And I find
when we both are trying to sort each other out, if you can make that connection, it becomes a a profound
thing and they really open up. Jasmine Kernodal. Oh, Santa Z's sister. Amazing. She's just it gets me talking to right
now about it. She's the power of the grief inside her to be able to express some of that. And Jeffrey in in the what
you saw in the in the hour and and you'll see him in other uh interviews in the future too. He physically reacts
sometimes his body movement is even more powerful than his words. When I you know
when you talk about you know when they heard the words from police that their their his daughter her sister that she
was dead. Oh my god how it hits him. And that was such genuine so genu um when I
was getting ready to watch the hour I was sort of preparing myself for grief. I thought I will be so saddened by this.
But instead I found myself impressed with their strength, their power. There was sort of a
weight to that grief. Does that make any sense? Absolutely. Absolutely. it becomes, you know, for
for for those of us who work on these stories, uh we do so many of them and they're all so horrendous and there are
those moments where you're sitting across from somebody or looking at them in the edit room and you go, how real
this is and that was so real. These these families, you know, it's it's it's heartbreaking. the Gonzalez, you know,
it's as loving a family as you will ever meet. And right away, they they started
digging in. And as Steve has said, we were not going to sit back and just wait for justice. And when you realize what
his daughter Olivia accomplished in her deep dive, which we'll get into, but they they moved ahead instantly. They
channeled that grief into action. So, let's talk about a little bit the incredible amount of investigating that
the families did, especially uh Kayle's sister, Olivia. Uh she found the ride share driver who dropped Kaye off at the
home that night, something that she says even law enforcement had not discovered.
I want to play a little sound. Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically started cold calling recent
numbers. She says a friend told her that Kaye had been at the corner club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a rid
share driver who Olivia managed to track down. The ride share driver said around
1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a ride from the Grub Truck, which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take
her back home to 1122 King. and she had with her another female. Olivia then uncovered one of the most important
leads in the case. The ride share driver told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck. So I was able to look it up
and um find Kaye on the video and I saw the girl that she was with was Maddie. So at that point I knew Kaylee and
Maddie were together. They got into the car to go home together and alone. The driver told her the exact time Kaye and
Maddie were dropped off at their house on King Road, 1:56 a.m. A timeline she says she confirmed before the police. I
immediately took it to the police officers. Here's her phone information. Here's the ride share driver's name. You
know what's interesting about that right there is that a the police had the wrong
time when they returned home. They by 11 minutes. So she was able to put that timeline on track which which is sort of
you know a domino effect. They get the right time they get home they get this they get that they get that. And she was
able to correct that right off the bat which got them mobilized and moving in the right direction. There is still so
much to get into here. So, when we get back, we're going to talk about Brian Coberger's trial, what the defense might
say to poke holes in the case, new evidence the prosecution might present, and a possible link. Yeah, a link
between Coberger and the victims that the Gonzalez think that they've discovered on Instagram. Stick
[Music] around. All [Music] right, welcome back everyone. The trial of Brian Coberger had been set for
October 2nd of 2023, but it was postponed because he waved his right to a speedy trial. So, the question is,
what do we think we can expect once this kicks off? Liza, as we know, there's a der of information because of this gag
order, but the defense has hinted at what its case will be. In a court filing, they have come out and saying
essentially what they're going to challenge in in the prosecution's case. They're going to challenge one, the
collection of the DNA. There were uh three male other DNA samples found at the scene. two inside
the house, one in glove outside. They still don't know who those belong to. And the defense wants to know why. They
say there's no connection, none at all, between Cobberger and any of the four victims in that house. And if there's no
connection, there's no motive, why would he have done something like this? And then to me, one of the most intriguing
ones, if it's true, we don't know any of this because we don't it hasn't been litigated in in in ch hasn't been argued
in in court. They claim that there's absolutely now, mind you, this is one of the bloodiest crime scenes ever. I mean,
four people slaughtered with with a a military style. We saw the blood on side of the house. And it's I know you
probably went back and forth as to whether or not you should show that, but I think it really sort of gave you an
idea of of what went on in Yeah. And the and the family told us they want the world to know the and this is the word
they use, the ferocity of these murders. It's important uh the savagery that went
went into this, right? And as Peter said, that house was literally bleeding. If the house could talk, what would it
say? That's a wonderful question. But so back to this intriguing uh statement that the defense has put out there. They
say there's this bloody crime scene. We know how easily it is to get a hair or a
speck of blood. They say there's absolutely no DNA evidence of anyone from that house or that house in his
apartment, in his car, on his person. And if that's true, that is pretty intriguing. Mhm. So, let's talk
about a receipt from Walmart and a Dickiy's tag that was found at his apartment, though we don't know what
items were listed on the receipt. What does the Gonzalez family think this discovery really means? The family has a
has a u a theory. They believe that that he brought what what they call a kill kit. That he had a bag that had a change
of clothes in it. That's what they're calling it. What what they're calling it. And they said that um and we did do
not have this in did not have time for this in the hour, but that during the the course of the search warrant that
was done at Coberger's house, they have a receipt and that the receipt according
to the Gonzalez family is in evidence right now. And it may suggest that he bought a clothing that perhaps that he
wore during the course of this murder is what they're suggesting. and that that clothing was not found at his apartment
after when when the search was done. Um, but even so, as Liza said, cuz we have done so many of these stories, the
notion, you know, when you're using a knife, for instance, and there's called Castaway Blood, you know, as you raise
it up and then back down, the hair, skin, blood, the notion that nothing at all was found in that car, nothing at
all, is is really quite extraordinary. And they will, the defense is going to be playing that up. And remember they
say about his alibi for that night, Brian Coberger's. Yeah. He admits he was out driving late that night. He was
driving around. That's what he says. Mhm. That would explain the the cell phone in the vicinity and also seeing
that car on the, you know, surveillance cameras. Mhm. And among the things, of course, they're going to talk about in
in the prosecution of this case was the 12 visits prior to the murders in that neighborhood, but also there was a 13th
visit the day of the murder once it became publicized because this occurred, you know, in the early early morning
hours. Well, later that day, prosecutors say that Coberger's according to the affidavit, his car was in that area
again. But remember, he's studying criminology. And I'm sure he their people would argue yes, he was
fascinated by this horrible crime and as a criminologist uh he he drove over as many people did
into that area to see what was going on. But then there's always the theory that
the criminal returns to the scene of the crime because they want to see what's going on and they want to sort of get
the last laugh. Haha, I got away with this. Look at everybody running around. Look at everybody. Right. Yeah. Well,
one theory that is out there that the Gonzalez family has come to believe is the notion that Brian Coberger may have
been inside that house prior to the day of the murders. And they base that on the fact that the coroner in the case
told them that the asalent entered the house and the first people that were attacked were on the third floor of the
house. There were others on the second floor. And that suggested to the Gonzalez that the killer knew to go to
the third floor. How would he know that if he hadn't been in the house before? So this is the family's filling in the
blanks though. This is some information. They're trying to explain it, right? That is what that we have not had any
investigator tell us this. Of course, there's this gag order and we have not been able to verify that with any
investigator because of the gag order. But the Gonzalez's uh mom and dad, Christy and Steve, believe that he may
have been in that house prior to the murders. When you really think about this whole thing, how does this person
in this house that has three floors know where to go and how to do it and kill so
so rapidly? As one of our people said, he's a student. He's not an assassin, right? But it seemed like he was so
efficient, which is, I think, one of the reasons why the Consolves believe he had
to know where he was going when he got in there. He had to know who he was after and what he planned to do. Mhm.
Now, Christy Gonzalez says she thinks he went in to kill one, but he killed four.
So, that he was caught off guard by the fact that there were two people in the first bedroom. Exactly. And there was
also the bit about Kayle's dog, right? Uh Kaylee slept with that dog every night. Uh and uh that was just that was
their routine. And when officials uh got to the house uh discovered the uh that horrible scene. The dog was in a
separate bedroom by its cell. And so that was just that just raised questions with the Gonzalez that um did he know
there was a dog? Had he seen a dog in a visit? Had he actually even maybe given the dog a treat where it wouldn't bark
at him? And did he put the dog in that room? It's just something that the Gonzalez uh have focused on and raised
with us. So, we've been talking a lot about the different theories about how Kobberger may have committed these
murders, but what is also new in this hour is the Gonzalez discovered what they think is a possible connection
between him and the victims. So, the the the the Gonzalez family heard the name Brian Coberger. Olivia Googles his name
and they end up finding this Instagram account that the family uh believes was a genuine one. I want to play a little
sound from the hour about the connection that the family feels might be there. You would go to Mattie's Instagram
account and look at her pictures and he liked them. Brian's name was under a lot
of Mattie's pictures like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture. So he was
actively looking at the Instagram account and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this
particular account had some type of connection with the with the victims. And if that's true that's huge because
what it does is it establishes a relationship a connection between Kobar and the victims at least two of the
victims. and the defense is saying there's no connection. So, which is true. That will
be a very important point to be made at trial. As has been said by one of our experts in the hour, if there's no
connection, there's no motive. Everyone who watches 48 hours who's listening to this right now knows you don't have to
have a motive. Prosecutors will tell you all the time you don't have to. And serial killers, you know, Ted Bundy
didn't have to have a motive for each of his killings. he just had a satisfaction
in in killing someone. And the Gonzalez believe that that uh Coberger, who again
is accused of this, not convicted of anything as as yet of course that he did this in their opinion simply to kill, to
murder, to experience that rush. Mhm. They do it for pleasure. That's one one of the theories by our
criminologist expert who said that a crime like this seems to be done by somebody the viciousness of it uh by
somebody who takes pleasure in it um or has a sense of arousal from it. Mhm. Did
you reach out to the Coberger family? Yes, we've done that many times and um we're still hoping that they will change
their mind and and talk about Brian. Um, and we hope that happens. What I'm hearing, uh, is that the Kobberger
family does not believe he did it. But there there is something very very interesting that Steve Gonzalez, uh, was
very clear about that he's going into this trial with an open mind that he he thinks they think that it looks like
Coberger did it. However, maybe he didn't. and they have uh an open mind about that. Well, Steve has an open mind
about that. I was surprised by that because that is typically not something that you hear. Um is after someone's
been arrested, usually families of the victims are convinced usually that you know that's the right guy. Yeah. Yeah.
And uh he has an open mind and we as journalists also have to have an open mind. Yeah. uh because the the facts of
the case are being held so tightly so closely there's a lot we don't know and we have to remember that and uh that's
another that was another challenge in doing this hour I think right Peter yeah and uh absolutely and Coberger has said
through an attorney when he was arrested in Pennsylvania he looks forward to his
exoneration there were others though that you reached out to that also didn't want to talk uh Mattie Mogan's family
her parents They did not speak to you for this episode. Mattie Mogan. Um Maddie was a only child of of of her
parents and the they have spoken of course at these memorial uh gettogethers and things, but it is so
devastating. And you look at her face, you look at Mattie's face, and you see this this bright and she's intelligent,
this big-hearted woman with everything in front of her. uh and they invested everything and all their love and wisdom
in this one child and that child is taken from them under these circumstances. Um we understand Mhm.
Ethan Chapen's family um who obviously are suffering enormous loss. They have chosen to to not do an interview with uh
48 hours for this. Perhaps one day, you know, they'll want to talk, but we completely understand uh that they don't
want to. and and of course we respect that. Well, what a moving episode for the first one of this season of 48 hours and
for the first postmortem podcast. I really want to thank you Peter and Liza for being here. Thank you Anmarie. It's
our honor to tell this story. It's so profound. Absolutely. It is. It's touched all of us. Thank you Marie. Be
sure to join us next Tuesday for another postmortem. Watch 48 hours Saturdays 10:9 central on CBS and also streaming
on Paramount Plus. And be sure to follow 48 hours wherever you get your podcast.
You can also listen adree on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. [Music]

Watch "The Night of the Idaho Student Murders" and then catch up with "48 Hours" correspondents Anne-Marie Green and Peter Van Sant and producer Liza Finley on "Post Mortem" as they take you inside their latest reporting on the murders of Kaylee Goncalves, Maddie Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin. You’ll also hear about "48 Hours"’ first national television interview with Xana Kernodle’s family, along with theories from the families about what may have happened the night of the murders.

Case update: On July 23, 2025, Bryan Kohberger was sentenced to four life sentences without the possibility of parole after he pleaded guilty to the murders of four University of Idaho students in 2022.

00:01 The Night of the Idaho Student Murders 42:00 Listen to a post-mortem on the episode

Listen to "Post Mortem" wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/Z7Gat5hP?sid=YT

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Families of Idaho murder victims seek justice as trial of Brian Coberger approaches, revealing emotional struggles and investigative efforts.

Key points

The Tragic Crime in Moscow. The case of four University of Idaho students murdered in 2022 remains haunting.
The Accused Killer. Brian Coberger is accused of the brutal stabbing of four students, with the death penalty sought.
The Investigation Unfolds. Families take matters into their own hands as they seek justice for their loved ones.
The Painful Wait. Families endure 47 days without a suspect after the murders, filled with uncertainty and fear.
The Arrest of Brian Coberger. Law enforcement arrested Brian Coberger after DNA evidence linked him to the crime.
The Gonzalez Family's Journey. The Gonzalez family reflects on their loss and the ongoing search for justice.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The worst day of your life. Just your worst nightmare.

A father's reaction to the news of his daughter's murder.

9:00WatchMay 9, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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