The Wavering Witness | "Candyman" | "48 Hours" Podcast (Episode 5) | Forensic Files

Ruthie May McCoy died in the spring of 1987 a month later just as summer was heating up hondras and Turner were
indicted they were charged with murder armed robbery home invasion residential burglary and armed
violence it took three years for Edward Turner and John Hond to go on trial after their arrest for the murder of
Ruthie May McCoy they don't have physical evidence to help them no useful fingerprints were found at the scene
Ruthie May's medicine cabinet was missing plus investigators never recovered the gun and got a late start
securing the crime scene another problem with the police not going in to the apartment originally is that by the time
they got back there the place had been wiped clean the case largely hinged oning the
prosecution star witness Tim brown brown told police that he saw hondras and Turner go into Ruthie May's
apartment the two suspects spent all three years waiting behind bars Steve begira found out that hondras lost three
relatives while he was waiting for his trial in this case first his grandfather then his mother died of
cancer and just 2 days after her funeral a police officer shot and killed hr's 16-year-old brother authorities told
hr's family that he was too dangerous to be released for the funerals so he never
got to say goodbye John hondras was in his mid-20s and he'd been in prison before he was
convicted of auto theft and robbery detectives were told he had only been a free man for less than a week when
Ruthie May was shot Edward Turner was just 18 when Ruthie May was killed in the past Turner
a high school senior had been charged with unlawful use of a weapon his mother Al the Turner said
that he liked to listen to the radio with friends and never gave in when other young men pressured him to join a
gang she said Turner never would have hurt Ruthie may they knew her and used to live in the same
highrise the two suspects chose to have their Fates decided differently Turner went to the jury of his peers while hres
went with the bench trial so a judge would decide whether he was guilty or innocent when they finally went to trial
report Steve beira was still on the case even though Turner had opted for a jury
and hondras was going to have his fate determined by the judge Michael Getty but they're going on at the same time so
you have a lot going on they both had judge Michael Getty and each suspect had pleaded not guilty the court decided to
have both trials at the same time in the same room now if there was a moment that
was specific to only hr's case they would escort Turner's jury out of the courtroom
temporarily there were some relatives and Friends of the defendants the only person there on
behalf of Ruthie May was her brother Willie willly McCoy step Willie often talked while Court was in recess I
really enjoyed talking with willly McCoy he was a born again Christian who said he had had his problems before he was
born again he was messing with drugs at the time of the trials Willie was 57 even though he was Ruthie May's older
brother he said sometimes she would help him with his school work back in the day
he said his sister was generous Willie told Steve that she would have given you the shoe strings off her shoes if you
needed them he clearly loved Ruthie May and that came across and he was like a lot of people who do come and support of
the victim he was not all about vengeance like we got to get these people convicted Steve said Willie had mellowed
out with age he witnessed an example of this in the courtroom a friend of Edward
Turner's family asked Willie Point Blank if he thought Turner had really killed Ruthie May McCoy Shrugged and the friend
said I'll tell you truthfully I don't believe he did but if he did do this I hope he burns because if someone did
this to my mother they wouldn't be here in court I'll tell you that Steve is reading from his own reporting and
Willie McCoy then smiled and he said I know what you mean I used to feel that way too but I've grown
some I understand the friend said and then McCoy told me that he wasn't always as forgiving as he is
today had his sister been murdered like this when he was younger he told me I would have gone over and tore the whole
West Side Up I didn't found the people who did it and blew their brains out and kept
walking Willie came to almost every day of the trials I liked what he had to say
because he was ambivalent uh because he knew how the world worked Steve and Willie understood
there was no guarantee these suspects would be convicted he was not naive and yet he also had this compassion this
understanding of what life is like how people can get messed up in things that they don't want to get messed up in no
one not Steve not the loved ones of the suspects and certainly not the prosecution could have predicted what
would happen next the prosecution was hanging this case on the statement that Tim Brown had given them the
prosecution's star witness changed his story I'm Doma Pungo from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the
bathroom mirror [Music] murder episode 5 the wavering witness no other reporter has followed
what happened to Ruthie May McCoy more closely than Steve buira I feel like I got to know Ruthie May somewhat in spite
of her death Steve and I spent hours on a zoom one Wednesday afternoon she came here from Arkansas when he was young
Steve was thin with white hair and was wearing a button-up shirt just off screen he had several stacks of his old
notes occasionally he'd pause the interview grab his glasses and read through his reporting to make sure he
was getting the story right in his decad spent reporting in Chicago he'd covered
plenty of Trials the Kook County criminal courthouse now known as the Leighton courthouse is commonly known as 26 in
California that's where it is on the southwest side of the city and it's the biggest and busiest felony courthouse in
the country the courthouse stood seven stories adorned with cement colored neoclassical stone columns and the place
had a chill to it fluorescent lighting Gruff security guards a tense screening process there was a sense of for booting
in there just thinking about the decisions happening behind each set of doors course it's not a pleasant place
to be it's a courthouse where white people if they experience it at all it's because they got jury duty whereas a lot
of poor black people know the place pretty intimately they know where the coke machines are thankfully I can count
on one hand the number of times I've been to 26 in California and none were pleasant the most recent was in 2018
when I was reporting on the trial of a white police officer found guilty of fatally shooting a black teenager 16
times a lot of people also just want to stay away from 26 in California if they can't bad things happen down there
that's how people look at it so as odd as it might sound I'm not surprised only a small group watched the Turner in Hond
trials very few people were spectating watching or or there in support of the defendants were there for the victim
Edward Turner's mother Altha was there and Ruthie May's brother Willie too no other reporters covered the trial
according to Steve there wasn't broad interest in this case in public were you struck at
all that it was just Willie who attended on the part of Ruthie May yes absolutely
was Ruthie May's daughter Berita for whatever reason did not attend I have seen situations where sometimes just to
relive in the court case the the pain of it all can be a lot for people but you know yeah I think a lot of people can
think what good is going to do uh for me to see what happens in the trial might not be what I'd like to have happen then
I'll just get hurt worse on March 27th 1990 the two defendants Turner and hondras arrived in
court wearing dark suits Turner 21 by then was clean shaven with a short haircut Steve wrote that he sat stiff
and expressionless at the defense table by then hondras was 25 he wore wire rimed glasses and had his hair
pulled back into a ponytail because HR had three prior felonies he faced up to 80 years if convicted Turner faced an
even more serious punishment the State's Attorneys had a little bit more evidence
against Turner so they made it technically a death penalty case multiple people told detectives that
Turner had admitted he shot a woman the night Ruthie May was killed now he hadn't said out right it
was Ruthie may but his alleged confession was the reason Turner faced the death penalty Turner's lawyers argue
that he didn't shoot anyone and that he was just a teenager lying to impress someone
[Music] Willie McCoy was called To The Stand he identified his sister's TV and rocking
chair after him the Chicago Housing Authority project manager who finally opened Ruthie May's door
testified she didn't know why the key the police were given for Ruthie May's apartment hadn't worked the prosecution
also brought Sonia Moore up to the stand she had lived in Abbot homes and at the
time of the trial she told Steve she was turning girlfriend she testified that Turner came to her place the night
Ruthie May was murdered at around 10:30 that evening he sat in her living room with her her sister and her sister's
boyfriend they were just hanging out when Turner started confessing that he shot a lady who had a daughter that's
what moris said on the stand this alleged confession was notable because it happened before anyone had opened the
door to Ruthie May's apartment or found her bullet riddled body that night Moore said she pressed Turner
she testified that she asked Turner where this woman lived and did she have any kids he told her that she had a daughter
but then as fast as he made the claim Turner backtracked and said that he wasn't
serious in court Turner's attorney argued that he'd only made that claim to try to impress more and he says that he
saw that it wouldn't impress her then he said no I didn't really shoot anybody and his testimony was that he really
didn't shoot anybody he was just bragging but Turner hadn't just boasted Moore also said that hondras and Turner
came back to her apartment and asked her to hide a black handgun she refused now if Turner was only joking
about shooting a woman why did he need help hi a gun on top of that other Witnesses claimed they' seen both of the
alleged accompli after the shooting the pair of them detectives talked to a couple of women who lived on the sixth
floor of the same building who said that hress and Turner came to them with the TV and the rocking chair one of those
women was Lynette Fitch Tim Brown's girlfriend Fitch said that hondras wanted them to
stash the stolen items at her place she refused and she suggested that they try another woman who lived on the first
floor of another Avid hrus and they ultimately took the TV and rocking chair to This Woman's
apartment Hound's attorney was a man named Alan senx he admitted that his client did move the rocking chair to
another apartment apartment but argued that hress was only offering Turner a helping hand in other words he was
trying to say hress the excon might look like he was in charge but actually the high schooler was according to sencx and
in an effort to take suspicion off his client sincox argued the obvious saying that any of the people who hung out in
the vacant apartment 1108 could have murdered ruie May McCoy including in his words quote some of those will
testify what he's basically suggesting here is that Tim Brown the state's star witness could be pointing the finger at
hress and Turner to hide the identity of the real killer or Killers the police did not get a confession from anyone and
so the prosecution was stuck with the statement of Tim Brown the prosecution needed Tim Brown to take the stand and
reiterate everything he said in his signed statement and he did not that's when the case against Turner
and hondras fell apart it was Tim Brown's word against the accused and brown would no longer say they did it in
fact he would make a damning allegation against the [Music] police prosecutors often say we don't
choose our Witnesses you know we have to go with what we got that's Steve again talking about Tim Brown he isn't the
kind of guy we choose as a witness but that doesn't mean he wasn't telling the [Music]
truth Brown was 24 years old and a key witness for the prosecution 3 years before he would testify in court Brown
had signed a six-page statement the state's attorney noted that it was taken in the dead of night at 4:00 a.m. on
April 26th 1987 just four days after Ruthie May called 911 there were challenges to Brown's
credibility as a witness Tim Brown had a couple of felony convictions which were
relatively minor as I recall I think they were possession of a controlled substance with intent to deliver but
that's the kind of thing that's defense lawyers can make a lot of saying oh he's
a drug Peddler you can't trust him when prosecutors called him to the stand they
wanted him to share how Turner and and were in Ruthie May's apartment when he heard four shots and how the pair had
allegedly come back to the crime scene to collect the shell cases the statement that police and the State's Attorneys
had from Tim Brown was what's called a handri statement so at trial Tim Brown said I didn't really say that the police
abused me uh they grabbed me between the legs Brown didn't only backtrack he denied giving the police the statement
at all and accused them of forcing him into signing it it's clear that the case had fallen
apart for the state when Tim Brown did that he claimed police threatened him and they said they might charge me as an
accomplice former detective Anthony Manina one of the investigators Brown was accusing blew off the idea that
brown was coerced he said it was common for a witness to backtrack and accuse the police of misconduct that was a
standard procedure you got jail house lawyers that they're constantly trying to get K people off of their cases the
assistant States Attorney who took Brown's statement was Linda wesan she testified at the time that no officers
were in the room when she wrote down Brown's statement and that brown had said he was treated well by officers
when we talked to her 30 years later she told us she didn't remember this case but she did say that it was common
practice for her to ask officers and detectives to leave the room when she took a witness's
testimony Brown's new story shifted the blame away from Turner the teenager he now said that Turner didn't
even go through the bathroom mirror it was hondras but the other guy was a guy named Bo remember Bo was another one of
the friends at the apartment next door to Ruthie Mays he was never arrested for this crime and brown said that when he
heard the gunshot shots Turner was still in 11:08 sitting on the couch in the living
room Tim Brown and his friend Cy floi first told police they weren't even in apartment 1108 the one next to Ruthie
Mays the night of the murder one of them said that they stayed at somebody's house and the other one said they stayed
in a motel afterwards and so detectives used the inconsistency when they reined Brown
eventually Brown and floro admitted that they were actually in that apartment and
that's when they got the statement that yeah I was there and yeah HR Turner did ones who went into the apartment former
detective Manina described having to repeatedly rein witnesses as part of the job he said it was rare for someone to
tell the truth the first time around we told him what he said the first time and
he'd make a different line so by the time he got through with three or four he didn't remember what he said you
wound up with the truth so Brown gave at least three different stories his first
story to detectives His official statement and now this new one that he was giving in court but let's talk about
that handwritten statement for a second Steve pointed out that when you hear the
phrase handwritten statement the Assumption might be that brown handw wrote the statement but actually the person being
question in Chicago at least is just writing his signature it's a state's attorney who with felony review who was
called to the station when detectives feel they have somebody solid ready to give a
statement so Tim Brown only signed the statement once the prosecution finished their line of questioning the defense
got their [Music] turn there wasn't a lot that the defense lawyers really had to do because it was
clear they had enough to impeach Brown I mean he was saying one thing at one point and another at another Point while
we were talking through the case on Zoom Steve turned in one of his stacks of papers and grabbed a write out of when
John hr's attorney Alan sincox cross-examined Tim Brown originally Brown claimed a different friend named
Bo was involved in removing the medicine cabinet attorney Alan syx said did you tell any of the police off officers that
Bo was one of the ones who did this and Tim Brown says yes sinok says you told them that Bo was
the person who came through that hole and may have committed this crime yes how many times did you tell them
that Tim Brown says I don't know it might have been just once they asked so many questions day after day that I
don't remember Brown took his denial a step further and claimed he didn't even know
Ruthie May McCoy in his statement he said he had told hress that an old lady named Miss May lived in 1109 but on the
stand he said that besides his girlfriend he didn't know the names of any of the women Steve read from his
reporting how Brown contradicted even the most fundamental claims he made in his
statement he said he had no idea you could break into apartments in the building via the medicine cabinets until
the KN McCoy was killed which contradicted what he had in his statement he said that the music they were
listening to that night wasn't loud at all because quote we got neighbors up there we give our neighbors our respect
it's not fair to him to say that he flipped for sure because we don't know exactly what he told police and State's
Attorney but none of Steve's reporting suggested the police actually abused Brown the detectives who were involved
in this case investigating this case and the State's Attorneys who took the statement did not have a reputation
for coing confessions I think that's an important factor in this case even though it was a handwritten statement it
was a little more trustworthy than some other hand statement the so you say the these detectives in this state's
attorney don't have a history of of doing that kind of thing right to my knowledge that's true in the majority of
murder cases I don't think detectives are physically abusing suspects I think there's a lot of trickery that goes
around goes on and there's a lot of lean on people so you know Tim Brown said they grabbed them between the legs and
you know could have happened but I doubt it again the assistant State's attorney
said no officers were in the room when she took the statement and while coercion may not have happened in this
case the Chicago PD during this time did have a notorious reputation for abuse and even torture of black men and women
the United Nations has repeatedly condemn the US and Chicago for not doing more to fix the problem he said that
they were threatening that he might be in accomplice they might charge him as an accomplice that's more believable to
me leaning on a suspect that way now we don't know why Tim Brown might have changed his story but the damage was
done the prosecution was stuck with the statement of Tim Brown so when he backed
off of that statement the case was gone the defense had questioned Tim Brown and
made their point but at least Turner's attorneys thought hearing directly from the accused could help their case so
they called Turner himself to the stand he saw that the door to her apartment was open and so he peaked in and he saw
Ruthie May's body I can understand that from a detective's point of view that you would hone in on
the two people who are mentioned regularly but of course that doesn't mean that they did it just because their
names kept coming up Steve watched the defense called Edward Turner to the stand where the young men would make his
own case during the trial Steve hadn't only gotten to know Willie McCoy he also met relatives of the two accused men
hress and Turner his mother Altha Turner said that they in one of the recesses when I talked with her she said there
have been so many lies they take a truth and they wrap it up in a lie then they take a lie and they wrap it up in a
truth my son wouldn't be here if it weren't so many lies they said they were taking him for questioning they kept him
three years for questioning he read straight from his reporting she said I know he did not kill anyone he wouldn't
do something like that I know he wouldn't because I whooped his ass when he was coming up his last ass whooping I
gave him he was 18 years old Turner used to get into a lot of fights in school when he was younger
that's how he got his nickname monifi it was a reference to Mona fiori which used
to be an alternative school in Chicago for kids who struggled with learning and discipline Altha Turner did not want to
record an interview but we talked to her for over an hour she said her son knew her neighbor Ruthie may she said he
wouldn't hurt her and that she didn't let her son run the streets like other teens in the project she was especially
strict with Edward she said during those years I didn't like him having any dealings with the young men's in this
area he was in church [Music] mostly as she argued her son's innocence Altha said Turner didn't easily give in
to peer pressure they would always threaten him to join gang but he never did let that bother him every time they
asked him what he was riding what gang he was with he'd tell them he was riding Jesus Christ and they didn't understand
that Turner's mom said that when he turned 18 she loosened up a bit when police contacted her in April 87 and
told her they wanted to question her son she thought they might want him for pedaling drugs his mom Altha didn't
think that he could be connected to a murder in fact the week this all was happening was normally a happier time
for their family both Altha and Edward Turner's birthdays were coming up it didn't come up at trial but I think it
was according to a witness that Turner said that he called his mom and said he was going to give her a color TV after
he had taken the TV from either Miss May's apartment or the hallway upside of it when they did call turn it to the
stand he admitted that he was in Ruthie May's apartment that night she was killed but he said that he did not pull
the trigger Turner later testifies that yes he took the TV that he saw was sitting outside of
apartment 1109 later that night sitting next to the prosecution table was a 19in
RCA TV and the rocking chair that belonged to Ruthie May on the stand Turner claimed that
when he saw a light on in 1108 from outside he went back up to the 11th floor when
he got there he saw someone named belder you haven't heard him mentioned yet anyway Turner now said he saw belder
leaving apartment 11:08 the one next to Ruthie Mays belder had the rocking chair
and asked Turner to grab the TV turner testified that's when he noticed the door to Ruthie May's
apartment was slightly open he kicked open the door took a few steps in and could see Ruthie May's body in the
bedroom she saw a woman's body Ling in the apartment and then he left with the TV and went downstairs this is
inconsistent with what the cops saw when they showed up at Ruthie ma there were no signs of forced entry and the door
was locked but that was turn of story he admitted that he didn't call for help Altha acknowledged her son looked
into the apartment saw Ruthie May lying there and did nothing and he hadn't reported it to the police it just taken
the TV so she said where I live at in the projects the rule is and she put a finger to her lips Altha then turned and
pointed at Willie McCoy sitting on a bench behind her he knows about that projects at that point McCoy nodded and
saides I know about them projects they would have probably hurt him Steve told me that Altha walked up the
aisle of the courtroom to the bench where Willie McCoy was sitting and put her hand on his shoulder she said my son
should have done something about her meaning Ruthie May if he seen her laying like that but I understand why he just
left with that TV he did what he had to do if I see somebody shoot you I cannot run and tell police because you see I
got to live there if they can't see that they should come living the projects like we do I feel satisfied now she went
on I wanted to know did my son have anything to do with the killing and now I know he didn't to this day Altha
Turner says her son was innocent just as she felt back then the question was would a jury
agree coming up in the final episode of Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror
[Music] murder from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the bathroom
mirror murder I'm your host and co-executive producer domati Pungo Judy thagard is the executive
producer of 48 Hours Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount audio and
morira walls is the senior story editor development by 48 Hours field producer Morgan KY recording assistance from
Marlon polycarp and Alan pay special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan
Marcus Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was
reported written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan hirch
our associate producer is summer tamod theme and original music composed by Cedric Wilson he sound designed and
mixed the episodes with we also use music from APM fendle Fon is our fact Checker and
our production manager is Tama balance kassy we'll continue Ruthie May McCoy story next week until then leave a
rating or review of what you think so far and thanks for listening to this episode
[Music]

The two young men arrested for Ruthie Mae McCoy's murder go on trial three years after their arrest. Prosecutors planned to rely on the testimony of a star witness, but everything changed once he took the stand. Steve Bogira spoke to the relatives of both suspects for his 1990 Chicago Reader article: https://shorturl.at/xMQ77

Get early, ad-free access to episodes of Candyman: The True Story Behind the Bathroom Mirror Murder by subscribing to 48 Hours+ on Apple Podcasts or Wondery+ on the Wondery app. The series is widely available everywhere else you get your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/candyman-the-true-story-behind-the-bathroom-mirror-murder/id1769281333

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Ruthie May McCoy's murder trial reveals witness inconsistencies and family struggles amid a lack of evidence against the accused.

Key points

The Tragic Death of Ruthie May McCoy. Ruthie May McCoy was murdered in 1987, leading to a complex legal battle.
The Indictment of Hondras and Turner. Hondras and Turner were indicted on multiple charges, including murder.
Willie McCoy's Journey of Forgiveness. Willie McCoy reflects on his sister's kindness and his own growth in forgiveness.
Witness Testimony Changes Everything. The prosecution's star witness, Tim Brown, changed his story, jeopardizing the case.
The Turning Point in Court. Tim Brown's testimony shifts blame away from Turner, unraveling the prosecution's case.
The Notorious Reputation of Chicago PD. The Chicago PD had a notorious reputation for abuse and torture of black individuals.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

She would have given you the shoe strings off her shoes if you needed them.

Willie McCoy on his sister Ruthie May's generosity

3:48WatchOct 31, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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