The Night of the Idaho Student Murders | Full Episode + Post Mortem | Forensic Files

[Music] Moscow will forever be known as a scene of one of the most tragic crimes in
American history there's still sort of a a Darkness whenever you talk to people it will be ever part of the
University's history and the town's history there are four very very important names in this case Kaye
gonzalves Madison Mogan Zanna kodal and Ethan chapen and if you're going to remember
any names from this case I ask that it be all four my name is Olivia Gonzalez and Kaye was my little
sister everybody's going to work and you look out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and
you're just like how can you be out there playing my daughter's dead you know KY Galis is
gone stop everything everybody in the whole world stop and everything just keeps
going my sister Zanna kodal is one of the happiest funniest people I've ever met and I had the
awesome privilege of growing up with her and I still have a hard time coming to terms with the facts that did
happen bran cerg is accused of stabbing these four University of Idaho students in the preon hours on November 13th 2022
uh the murder weapon which was a knife has never been found this is type of survival knife Brian coburger did not
make his own plea the judge entered a plea for him of not guilty maximum penalties life in prison or the death
penalty due to the nature of the crimes the state of Idaho is seeking the death penalty he was there to kill he came in
with a kit I believe he had to kill kit and you believe that everything right down to the Implement of Destruction
this large Marine knife that was all planned all planned was inhumane you wouldn't do these type of things to any
living creature let alone an innocent human being the star piece of evidence in the
prosecution case is the DNA that was found on the knife sheath that was left at the crime scene that there's so much
other evidence that's also pointing towards nobody else that we're aware of how was Brian cober's car spotted
leaving the scene why was his cell phone seen there 12 times including the morning after the offense prosecution
would like everyone to believe that it's an open and shut case but I think the facts they have make the case more open
than open and shut according to the defense there is no connection whatsoever between Brian
koberger and the victims and if there is no connection then there is no motive and if there is no motive then it
becomes very hard to make the case that he is the Killer and this is a graduate student not a trained assassin it's more
so about putting these pieces together because I know what the puzzle looks like at the end I have the box in front
of me but I'm missing so many pieces how did all of these pieces fall to create what I'm living in right now
where did where did this come from [Music] [Music] it was not the news Steve and Christy
gonzalves wanted to hear in August of 2023 just 6 weeks before the murder trial of Brian coburger was set to begin
he waved his right to a speedy trial sure you want to be absolutely they would have to wait indefinitely for
their day in court I was really hoping that um we could get this show on the road because
uh the not knowing it just it's Agony it's [Music] Agony Steve and Christie the parents of
Kaylee haven't left anything to chance after the judge issued a gag order to attorneys and law enforcement quote to
preserve the right to a fair trial they drilled down on their own investigation and are now sharing what they believe
that investigation found Steve says he believes transparency is the best path to Justice we're not going to just sit
back and cross our fingers and pray that we're going to get [Music] Justice it has been a long and painful
Journey for the families of kayy Galvis Maddie Mogan Zanna kotal and Ethan chapen the four po University of Idaho
students who were savagely murdered by a knife wielding a salent in the we hours
of November 13th 2022 as they settled down to sleep in their off-campus house on King Road do
you ever dream of your sister yeah I've had some dreams of her there's times where I prayed and ask
God to see her another time and I did and just gives me some people knowing that I know she's
[Music] okay Jasmine kotal who is speaking for the first time was a senior at Washington State University and lived
only 15 minutes away from her younger sister Zanna often mistaken as twins growing up she says they were best
friends she was always fun she was uplifting and she took any bad situation and turned it into a good one Jee what
did you love most about your daughter everything she cared about people she was a people person she sced
about her friends just as much as like her family for the first time in her life Zanna had fallen in love with
fellow student Ethan chapen a triplet who loved his siblings boats and working on a tulip farm the sweetest kid ever
they were just too happy people and they're just seeing the videos and photos of them you can just like tell
how happy they are they're just amazing together sadly they will now forever be linked in
death on Sunday morning November 13th zanna's friends started calling Jasmine saying something bad had happened on
King Road Jasmine rushed over to zanna's house and while you're driving that 8 n
miles over to the house are you trying to reach your sister then mhm how many times did you call her a lot I called
her a lot called Ethan a lot her next call was to her father Jeffrey had been visiting Jasmine for Dad's weekend and
was on his way home so you answer the phone what do you hear I hear her kind of crying and just telling me to get
back to Moscow and meet me at Santa's house and you know my heart drop instantly race back down
there the house was cordoned off and swarming with investigators as soon as Jeffrey said he was zanna's father he
and Jasmine were escorted to the Moscow police department and Jasmine what does the officer say to you and your father I
I don't remember exactly just that four people passed away and that one was Hanah
the worst day of your life just your worst nightmare it just happened you know what
do you do you can't do a damn thing 100 miles away the gonzalves family also had been getting frantic
calls saying something bad had happened to their daughter KY but no one knew what I just kept saying over and what do
I do what do we do what do we do finally at around 4: in the afternoon a deputy appeared at their door and we said
what's going on I can confirm your daughters died passed away point he said there were four victims and we and I
said four and he said yes ma'am I said can you tell us if one of the victims was
Manny Mogan and he said yes ma'am Maddie Mogan Kaylee's best friend from childhood give us a sense of just
how close uh Kaye and Maddie were in life I think that they had a very amazing relationship the epitome of true best
friends from very early I mean they were sisters through and through they were um completely
Inseparable as soon as the news hit Olivia the eldest of the five gonzalves children and her parents went into
detective mode we had zero details we just knew they were gone Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically
started cold calling recent numbers she says a friend told her that Kaylee had been at the corner Club bar around 1:07
a.m. and later texted a ride share driver who Olivia managed to track down the ride share dri said around 145
Kaylee had texted him requesting a ride from the grub truck which is the local Mac she's food truck to take her back
home to 1122 King and she had with her another female Olivia then uncovered one of the
most important leads in the case the ride share driver told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck so I
was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw the girl that she
was with was Maddie so at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together they got into the car to go home together and
alone the driver told her the exact time Kaylee and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King Road 1:56 a.m. a
timeline she says she confirmed before the police I immediately took it to the police officers here's her phone
information here's the right share driver's name Olivia says Kaylee made a call to her boyfriend at 2:56 a.m.
but he didn't answer the gun solices believe Kaye fell asleep shortly after according to the police affidavit Kaylee
and Maddie were stabbed to death between 4: and 4:25 a.m. just as they had done since they were little girls they were
sleeping in the same bed those two best friends since little girls I don't think there's anything
more terrifying than what they went through I really don't the killer took four lives in a
matter of minutes but he left behind two surviving roommates one of whom would provide a key description of the
Intruder he was dressed in black but muscular build and very bushy eyebrows [Music]
if there is one picture that speaks to the Idaho student murders it is this six smiling college students blissfully
unaware of the Carnage to come it's staged in a way that is almost in a strange way ominously
predicting investigative journalist Howard bloom has written extensively on the student murders for Gren Carter's
online magazine air mail he is now writing a book on the case on the ends of the picture are the two survivors in
the middle are are are the victims in their huddle together Kaye with a beaming Maddie on her shoulders friends
for life Ethan with his arm around Zanna Young Love In Full Bloom a moment that should have been a memory of the idilic
college Years would eternally be a reminder of the gruesome murders that put them in their
graves what makes it so tragic is they're forever preserved in this moment they'll never be able to
leave this moment hours after this photo was taken the four friends would be murdered their
deaths so violent even the house seemed to be bleeding there's literally blood oozing out from the home uh you could
see it on the exterior walls CBS News consultant Brianna Fox is a former FBI agent and professor of criminology at
the University of South Florida that's how Bloody and gruesome the crime scene is according to the affidavit which
outlines law enforcement's investigation the bodies of Zanna and Ethan who is sleeping over were found in or near her
bedroom on the second floor the bodies of Kaylee and Maddie were on the third floor in the same single bed in mty's
room how did your daughter die in that house what do you know we know the autopsy we know the means what is
officially how she died she was assaulted and stabbed several several times her death
certificate is the ugliest disgusting piece of paper that you will ever see in your life and every line is a horror
show every line cuz there's causes of death and then there's contributions to death Christie and Steve spoke to
coroner Kathy mbot before the gag order was issued and they say she told them how the two friends were positioned in
the bed the bed was up against the wall a headboard was touching the wall and the left side of the bed was touching
the wall and we believe that Maddie was on the outside and kayy was on the inside according to coroner mbit the
Killer's first victim was Maddie says Steve and then from Maddie he moved on to your daughter you believe she had
awakened at that point yes yeah there's evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get out of that situation the
way the bed was set up is what she was trapped she was trapped we know from the affidavit that cober's cell phone pinged
in the vicinity of the house 12 times prior to the murder Steve says before the gag order one of
the lead investigators told him they believe coburger had been scouting out the house you believe these visits were
like he was like on an intelligence Mission a scouting Mission looking at lifestyle patterns when they came and
went who came to the house methodical yeah he had to know when people were coming people were going it makes the
gonzaleses wonder if he'd ever gone inside the house I think that he at least had opened that door went in
tested the waters looked around Steve says the coroner told him the Killer's Rampage started on the third floor where
both Maddie and Kaylee had their bedrooms Christie thinks he wasn't expecting to find the two friends
together in the same bed I do think that his plan went arai I do think that you know he intended to kill one and killed
four Brianna FOX also believes Zanna and Ethan were collateral damage according to the affidavit Zanna received a door
Dash food delivery at 4 a.m. then went back to her room on the second floor it's possible says Fox that Zanna still
awake came face to face with the Killer and she sees somebody that she doesn't expect and I don't think he was
expecting to see her either one of the two surviving roommates Dylan Mortenson later told the police that she heard
what she thought was crying coming from zanna's room she heard a male voice say something to the effect it's okay I'm
going to help you not something a killer would likely say to an intended target says Fox he probably was trying to make
a split-second decision do I run away do I kill her what do I do and he decided to kill her at approximately 4:17 a.m.
police say an outside security camera less than 50 ft from zanna's room picked up distorted audio of what sounded like
voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud shortly after Dylan the surviving roommate whose bedroom was near zanna's
open the door according to the police affidavit when Dylan opens the door she saw a man dressed in black with a black
mask and she says he has bushy eyebrows those bushy eyebrows become very important when the police
are making their identification the man with the bushy eyebrows kept walking to the rear of the
house without harming Dylan why was Dylan not killed again there's no definitive answer he he didn't kill her
because he didn't see her he was sort of transfixed on getting out he didn't kill
her because he was satiated or he was simply too depleted to kill again says Fox even stabbing somebody for a minute
and a half not only is that Overkill but it actually would become rather exhausting the police believe the murder
weapon which has not been found was a military style Kar knife similar to this one the details are disturbing this is
not a civilian knife it was actually meant to tear apart bone ligaments organs so this is a extremely brutal and
something that you would never expect a person to walk in and want to commit unless they took some pleasure out of
the brutality of it after seeing the Intruder Dylan the surviving roommate told investigators she locked herself in
her room it would be almost 8 hours before 911 was called causing an uproar on social media criticizing Dylan's
alleged inaction but Brianna fox says It's Not Unusual for people to freeze or be too afraid to
intervene she had no reason to you know know how to handle herself in that moment according to the affidavit the
male walked towards the backsliding glass door and presumably left the scene but committing murder and getting away
with it are two different things says Fox for an offender to get away with a crime a murder they have to bat a
thousand they have to be absolutely perfect they make One Singular mistake that's all it takes and that one
possible mistake in this case may have been the sheath to the kar knife one like this was found on the bed next to
Maddie Mogan it would lead investigators to the door of a man studying for a career in
criminology Brian coburger the alleged killer to see a timeline of the case go to 48 hours.com
[Music] [Music] day after day and week after week pass and there is no suspect that is arrested
what was that time like for you that was the worst for 47 days after the murders the families of Kaye Maddie
Zanna and Ethan and the country waited we do not have a suspect at this time and
wept and weighed in people of Idaho and those throughout our nation Who provided
information has been very impressive we've received over 19,000 tips then on December 30th 2022 Brian
coburger was arrested in albrightsville Pennsylvania at the time his attorney said coburger looked forward to being
exonerated what goes through your mind when you see the face of the alleged killer oh wonder why who who is this why
you know never heard of the person before it still is confusing why at this point the families knew as much about
cob Berger as the public did a PhD candidate studying criminology just 10 miles away at Washington State
University in pman I remember thinking I only have a few minutes to look up this individual and
to try to get any credible information before things start getting wonky some of Olivia Gonzalez's online discoveries
of coburger made her uneasy he had made a few posts on Reddit in which he was conducting seems like a questionnaire to
uh people in prison or jail who had committed crimes how did you pick your victim or your target for 7 weeks the
families and the country were left wondering I think for this type of an investigation 47 days is actually quick
criminologist and CBS News consultant Brianna fox says the Moscow police kept things
moving starting with a video canvas which produced footage from those early morning
hours showing a white car making three passes by the girl's house starting around 3:30
a.m. less than an hour later investigators say the killer struck they noticed that this car
approached King Road left came back uh almost did a u-turn finally went there around 4:06 in the morning and that car
then departed in about 25 minutes and sped off multiple surveillance cameras then captured that white car as it
traveled what appeared to be a less direct route back to pulman Washington arriving around 5:30
a.m. that information helped investigators identify the make and model of the vehicle and we're looking
for a 2011 to a 2013 Hye Elantra Washington State Police find the car parked outside graduate housing uh they
get the license plate and they get Brian cober's name they then get the driver's
license and they see the bushy eyebrows that in the eyes of one of the Moscow detectives must be the eyebrows of the
killer now armed with a warrant investigators retrieved cell tower data from that morning which captured
coburg's phone around 2:47 a.m. in pman when it suddenly stopped connecting to the network according to the affidavit
this was also around the time cameras caught a white Elantra leaving his apartment complex there was an
indication that he turned off his cell phone which is something that a lot of people do when they want to avoid law
enforcement knowing their whereabouts his cell phone signal was picked up again 2 hours later south of Moscow as
it traveled back toward his apartment building the affidavit described a deeper dive into cob Berger's phone
history that revealed this was a familiar neighborhood to him going back several months cell phone records
indicated that he has traveled past and was very near the vicinity of this crime
scene on 12 separate occasions and Towers actually captured a 13th trip just hours after the murders anecdotally
a lot of killers they like revisiting the memory of the crime you know I won I was able to get away with this and you
guys won't catch me but they had one secret weapon to make their case they had the knife sheath and there was a
microscopic spot of DNA on this could they tie this DNA to coburger according to the affidavit the DNA was found on
the button snap of the sheath but when investigators ran it through the National Database there were no
matches it's unclear if Brian cerg knew law enforcement was watching when he left Washington in mid December
koberger and his father who had flown in from Pennsylvania drove back home together in his white Elantra cobber
from what I've heard tells the father that he's in trouble with his his job he's concerned enough about his son to
want to make the drive back with him on the 2500 mile Journey from Washington they are stopped twice for traffic
violations hello what's also interesting is cober's reaction to the police is this your car okay Co he's pretty calm
and cool father and son made it home to albrightsville Pennsylvania where Bloom says investigators initiated a stealth
operation what they did is they sent a team of Pennsylvania state troopers to cob Berger's family's house law
enforcement recovered cober's father's DNA from the trash outside their home which tested as a high high probability
it was the biological father of whoever left DNA on the knife sheath so that was
the Eureka moment which they decided they could get an arrest warrant at that point they made the arrest of Brian
cobber and they got a separate essentially search warrant for his DNA and when investigators compared his DNA
to the DNA on the knife sheath they say it was a statistical match at least 5.37
octillion times more more likely to be cers than anyone [Music] [Music] else where you sit today are you certain
that Brian Colberg is the killer with what you know I don't trust anybody or anything so I have to see it myself I
have to see everything as the months pass Steve even chrisy Gonzales remain a united front in
wanting justice but their weight has brought different perspectives your mind is still open to the potential of course
that it could have been someone else of course yep I go into that 100% yep of course that's not where you are you know
yeah that's fine I don't think there's any slam dunk criminologist Brianna fox says says with
the gag order in place any hint of C Burger's defense has come from court documents it seems that the defense is
alleging there was a rush to judgment law enforcement an arrest too fast and they focus on their client too
quickly a defense filing did reveal cob Berger's Alibi for the night of the murders it simply stated Mr coburger was
out driving alone the defense is not necessarily having to prove that he's innocent they just have to raise out
both Fox and Howard Bloom think the defense can find ways to poke holes in the prosecution's case challenging some
of the key evidence presented in the affidavit including the cell phone location data and the white Elantra
there's other concerns such as whether Brian cober's car was accurately identified at the onset or if that was
revised after knowing what Brian coburger drove the cell phone data makes one suspicious of Co Burger but it's not
convincing it's not putting someone at someone's doorstep it's putting someone in someone's
neighborhood if you can raise doubts about the validity and the accuracy of the cell phone data I think you're
halfway there to getting the case against coburger either a hung jury or a not guilty
verdict and there's more according to the defense that there there was no DNA or forensic evidence found from the
crime scene at the apartment car office or on Brian cober's person so they were basically alleging how could he have
committed such a brutal murder and yet have no evidence found on him of that after Consulting their own investigators
Christy and Steve theorize that coburger likely brought what they call a kill kit
with him what do you mean by a kill kit I think he had a backpack clothes we don't know if it was cover pants we
don't know a defense filing also claimed the presence of other unidentified male DNA
was found on the premises three separate and distinct male DNA profiles were found from the crime scene two were
inside the house one was outside on a glove the defense wants to know who are these people and what role could they
have played in this whole story so what the defense is doing now is trying to look for other narratives that Mak sense
Howard Bloom has written extensively about this case including a piece on a possible alternative defense Theory
involving drugs maybe someone had reneged on a drug payment and this was a retribution of Vengeance for people not
paying for drugs they had ordered I want you guys to respond to one thing that's
out there because speculation that somehow drugs were involved in this attack that's just Hollywood nonsense I
I just dismiss that because I I understand our society wants to believe in some of these movies that they watch
they don't have these crazy lives where they're crossing paths with people like that that storyline of it being drugs
gives people a reason to think why it happened because nobody knows why and the reason I think it happened is
because he wanted to that's what he wanted to do he wanted to commit a murder Brian cober's defense attorneys
argue there's a lack of evidence linking their client to the students the defense
is claiming that the defendant Brian cobber and the victims have absolutely no connection there's no motive in the
minutes after Brian cobber was publicly named the Gonzales family went online they just told us the name and we immedi
started Googling they believe they had found a possible connection through Instagram
and immediately took these screenshots from our investigation of the account it appeared to be the real Brian cerg
account among the people this account was following were Maddie Mogan and Kaylee gonzalves in addition to several
people with the name cerg but when we looked through those it appeared to have other family members that were related
to him at first Steve who works in it was skeptical thinking someone created a fake account immediately following
cober's arrest but according to the family they uncovered more possible connections you would go to Maddie's
Instagram account and look at her pictures and he liked them Brian's name was under a lot of Maddie's pictures
like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture so he was actively
looking at the Instagram accounts and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this particular
account had some type of connection with the with the victims 48 Hours has not confirmed the
authenticity of this account which has since been deleted and the gag order prevents investigators from
[Music] commenting after dedicating months looking for their own answers the gonzalves
say they are mentally prepared for trial no matter when it begins I think he's done he's going to feel all of us just
staring at the back of his head and he's going to know that we are the gonal ofis
family and he knows what he did to our daughter [Music] how could this happen two the group of
kids that are doing everything the way they're supposed to do to not known is what keeps you awake
at night and it's every day all day it never stops why why why there is no why it is as unexplainable today as a
was the day Kaylee gonzalves Maddie Mogan Zanna kotal and Ethan chapen were murdered I wish I wish we knew they were
all four of them were just such a great people and made such of an impact on the
lives around them for now the families are left with thoughts of what might have been
Kaye Jade Gonzalez has been recommended to receive a postumus bachelor's degree her family will receive the diploma of
the University of Idaho on May 13th 2023 exactly 6 months from the day of the murders an occasion
that would have been a cause for celebration graduation was instead another reminder of what was lost
seeing all those graduation photos it just they should be here graduation is just one of many
Milestones that will be missed she would have been my maid of honor and I probably would have been
hers and it's like sad to have to go through those life moments without her Jasmine kotal planned to work side
by side with her sister Zanna creating their own marketing business it's just not the same without
her because she just brought like such a crazy different energy than anybody else
I've ever met Kaye gonal this's future was in sight she had accepted a job in Austin
working for an IT firm Kaylee not only pushed herself say her parents but push them we lost that person that would
force us to make new memories and force us to go and take on something that seems a little daunting at first you
guys for the gonalves amid all the loss there was an addition to the family when
in February Olivia gave birth to a baby girl so her name is Theodora MD Kay obviously MD Kay is after Maddie and
Kaye and if one were to believe in signs there were says Olivia several with Theodora MADD K's arrival in the
hospital her room number 1113 was the same as the date of the murders November 13th and eily the time of birth 4:21
a.m. is in the time frame that Kaye and Maddie are believed to have been killed to have birth and life and firsts
first Giggles first walks that they would be there somehow you know even if it's just in name's
sake this is the gonzalves family M has truly been a blessing in our lives I'm zanna's sister the families of Kaylee
Maddie Zanna and Ethan have all searched for ways sometimes together to cope with
a horrible New Normal we all are always going to be there for each other and it's just difficult we all we're all
going through it in our own ways for Ethan's parents Stacy and Jim chapen one way of coping involves creating a
foundation Ethan's smile Ethan just had a great smile he smiled all the time raising money for scholarships by
selling tul lips planted in honor of Ethan who had worked at a tulip farm so Ethan will live on through the
foundation that's what motivates us to to do this how do you live with this Jeff it's
not [Music] easy just got to keep going you know I think just like living our lives
like Zanna would want us to I know that she would want us to talk about the life
that she lived and to be her voice right now she had a beautiful smile her and Maddie the memories that we share we
don't do it lightly because they are very private memories and sometimes it feels like I'm giving away a part of
them but I do it for the importance to realize how great of a loss it is because nothing's going to bring them
back [Music] CBS next Saturday 48 Hours brings you back-to-back episodes all summer long
next week Beachside homicide How could a single mom be executed in Cape Cod I was
knocked unconscious I couldn't protect her 48 Hours Crime Time double feature next Saturday on CBS and streaming on
Paramount [Music] plus welcome to postmortem a new Companion podcast to 48 hours so I'm
your host CBS News correspondent an marie green and each week we will take you behind the scenes with
correspondents and producers who know these stories best we go deeper into each episode explaining how the
reporting came together and their personal experiences with investigating these crimes now not only do I report
for 48 hours but I am personally a huge fan of the show so I'm really excited to
take a closer look at these cases with the 48 Hours team to hear their stories including you know brand new details and
we're talking about details that never made it into the episodes we're to start though by answering some of your biggest
questions about the Idaho student murders this is a case that captivated and continues to Captivate the country
and joining me now is longtime 48 Hours correspondent Peter vanent and producer Liza Finley welcome guys so good to have
you guys here thanks amarie we're very happy to be here yeah this postmortem is is something we dream about because so
we have so much information particularly on this story that we can't get to in the limited time so this is a wonderful
opportunity to expand and and share with our our our viewers and listeners in this case uh some new details before we
get to our postmortem let's listen to an overview of this week's episode it's been a long and painful
Journey for the families of Kaylee gonzalves Madison Mogan Zanna kotal and Ethan chapen the four University of
Idaho students who were stabbed to death in the pre-dawn hours of November 13th 2022 do you ever dream of your
sister yeah I've had some dreams of her just gives me some peace knowing that I know she's okay zanak kotal
sister Jasmine and father Jeffrey are speaking out for the first time since Santa's
murder it just happened you know what do you do you can't do a damn thing everybody's going to work and you look
out the window and there's kids running down the street laughing and you're just
like how can you be out there playing my daughter's dead on the night of the murders christe and Steve Gonzalez's
daughter Kaylee was in the same bed as her childhood friend Maddie Mogan the gonzalves say coroner Kathy mbot told
them before a gag order the killer attacked Maddie first then moved on to Kaye there's evidence to show that she
awakened and tried to get out out of that situation the way the bed was set up is what she was trapped she was
trapped a judge has entered a plea of not guilty on Brian coburg's behalf the murders of college students
Ethan chapen Madison Mogan Zanna canot and Kaylee Gonzales shocked the country in November
of 20122 and really captured the attention of the country I think part of it had to do with
how that this is a time in your life that is supposed to be one of the best times in your life and every photo that
you saw of them was bursting with life so the idea that those lives were cut short I think really shook a lot of
people this is such a deeply personal story uh perhaps the most that I've ever been involved with I'm a father of six
six who've all gone to University I attended Washington State University 8 miles from where this murder scene was
located and when I went to school there the idea of crime might be a kid stealing a candy bar from a store it was
just simply unheard of so it's deeply personal and and to connect with with the family the gonzales's Christy and
Steve and to speak with Jasmine and Jeffrey kodal Jasmine is zanna's sister and Jeffrey her dad was the most
profound interviews I think I I have ever done and Liza was was in on this we were all so moved it was so emotional it
really was you know genuinely had tears in my eyes at times and as I watched this hour for the eighth time I still
get tears in my eyes because it's the sense of loss is profound and it is felt all over the world and you're right
anarie this time of Innocence the adventure of learning the Deep friendships formed at University and to
see it interrupted like this allegedly by a person they still don't have a motive for um just shocked everyone the
consolat they moved to the general area because they wanted a safe place to raise their kids yeah they it's talk
about ironic they lived in California it was getting kind of dangerous there they
felt they have five children so they went on a road trip and we were going to find America's best place to live the
safest place to raise our family and they settle on this beautiful beautiful little town in Idaho and lo and behold
just few hours away by car where where Kaylee went to school the worst crime imaginable happened and they regret
moving you know they go if only we hadn't moved there's also something else I wanted to mention at this point that
the gonzaleses shared with us that we weren't able to to to get into our broadcast their daughter Kaylee uh
gonzalves uh was a true crime fanatic she watched all these shows she loved watching 48
hours and she was she was concerned enough about crime that she would take notes her her mom said during the
broadcast and she came up with a plan of action hey if any of us are ever assaulted if we're ever in a crime
situation like we've seen on 48 hours in these other shows this is what we should
do she actually typed it out and the family had a nickname for her they called her the protector because of this
and I talked to Christy about it can you imagine the horror when then worst possible nightmare in this case it's not
a cliche is occurring her best friend in life Maddie killed alongside her and now
the as salent is attacking her you know what one the ironies though with which you were talking about her philosophy
after being such a true crime show fanatic was separate I'll go you right you go left
so one of us will survive and be able to call the police and come to your rescue
well those two young women were killed in the same bed they didn't have a chance to
separate she was trapped Kaylie was trapped there's so many components of this that sort of give you
chills um you focus on the families which cannot be easy I can't imagine it was easy to get them to talk we have a
uh a a great um colleague out in California named Greg fiser who had uh established a relationship with the
family when we did our first hour uh earlier in in 2023 I did a a zoom interview with Steve
Gonzales and felt as though we had really connected you know they said okay you've got five minutes cuz he was going
from reporter to reporter and we really connected we talked for 25 minutes and and when that story ran uh
we understood that the family appreciated how respectful we were there was no sensationalism this is 48 Hours
this is CBS News and that connection continued and so Greg fiser was talking with with the family out there and said
Peter would really like to sit down and have a longer conversation with you and because and Liza is really strong on on
this they believe that transparency in getting these words out is important for them to find Justice they agreed to the
interview there's a gag order and that was issued by the judge and it basically uh prohibits attorneys law enforcement
officials from speaking so Steve feels very strongly that that is not in the best best interest of Justice because
there have been so many rumors so much false information out there that he believes that real journalists real
officials should be dispelling these these false falsities so he he agreed to this very
long interview six seven hours yeah I heard Peter is legendary for his long interview he is famous for that in our
shop we're going to go two more hours on this um it was great it was they were extraordinary and once you know people
families everyone has to remember this families that have gone through this this kind of shocking trauma they don't
interview one another right that's not the way we talk all of us have lost someone in our families when that's
happened in my case I don't interview my sisters about how you're feeling in things and so sometimes when when a
person like myself comes into the picture it's such a catharsis for them there's so much they want to say what I
valued about it is their willingness to pull us into this moment in their life which is the most painful moment that
they will ever experience and it's going it's going it's not a moment it's their
life now um but we often you know sometimes when we tell these stories and 48 hours is an excellent job at being
compassionate and fair but it is an hour and a whole case and we don't sort of get a chance to slow slow down and be
reminded of the human victims that are still alive zanna's sister Jasmine has never spoken before um her father
Jeffrey never spoken before um and in this case you you didn't prein them you didn't get a chance to talk to them
ahead of time no not not at all not with the gun solices either but you know I prefer I prefer that I prefer that we
get to know each other in the course of this interview you always begin very Gent
you talk about the the the sister that she loved the daughter that he loved and you work your way into the details and I
find when we both are trying to sort each other out if you can make that connection it becomes a a profound thing
and they really open up Jasmine kodal Oh sanna's Sister amazing she's just it gets me talking to right now about it
she's the power of the grief inside her to be able to express some of that and Jeffrey in in the which you saw in the
in the hour and and you'll see him in other uh interviews in the future too he physically reacts sometimes his body
movement is even more powerful than his words when I you know when you talk about you know when they heard the words
from police that their their his daughter her sister that she was dead oh my God how it hits him and that was such
genuine so genuine um when I was getting ready to watch the hour I was sort of preparing myself for grief I thought I
will be so saddened by this but instead I found myself impressed with their strength
their power there was sort of a weight to that grief it does that make any sense absolutely
absolutely it becomes you know for for for those of us who work on these stories uh we do so many of them and
they're all so horrendous and there are those moments where you're sitting across from somebody or looking at them
in the edit room and you go how real this is and that was so real these these families you know it's a it's it's
heartbreaking the Galis is you know is as loving a family as you will ever meet and right away they they started digging
in and as Steve has said we were not going to sit back and just wait for justice and when you realize what his
daughter Olivia accomplished in her deep dive which we'll get into but they they
moved ahead instantly they channeled that grief into action so let's talk about a little bit the incredible amount
of investigating that the families did especially uh Kay's sister Olivia uh she found the ride chair driver who dropped
Kaylee off at the home that at night something that she says even law enforcement had not discovered I want to
play a little sound Olivia got into her sister's call log and frantically started cold calling recent numbers she
says a friend told her that Kaylee had been at the corner Club bar around 1:07 a.m. and later texted a ride share
driver who Olivia managed to track down the r chair driver said around 1:45 Kaye had texted him requesting a
ride from the grub truck which is the local mac and cheese food truck to take her back home to 1122 King and she had
with her another female Olivia then uncovered one of the most important leads in the case the ride share driver
told her about a camera mounted on the grub truck so I was able to look it up and um find Kaye on the video and I saw
the girl that she was with was Maddie so at that point I knew Kaye and Maddie were together they got into the car to
go home together and alone the driver told her the exact time Kaye and Maddie were dropped off at their house on King
Road 1:56 a.m. a timeline she says she confirmed before the police I immediately took it to the police
officers here's her phone information here's the ride share driver's name you know what's interesting about that right
there is that a the police had the wrong time when they returned home they by 11
minutes so she was able to put that timeline on track which which is sort of you know a domino effect yeah they get
the right time they get home they get this they get that they get that and she was able to correct that right off the
bat which got them mobilized and moving in the right direction there is still so
much to get into here so when we get back we're going to talk about Brian cober's trial what the defense might say
to poke holes in the case new evidence the prosecution might present and a possible link yeah a link between cobber
and the victims that the gonzaleses think that they've discovered on Instagram stick
[Music] around all right welcome back everyone the trial of Brian koberger had been set
for October 2nd of 2023 but it was postponed because he waved his right to a speedy trial so the
question is what do we think we can expect once this kicks off Liza as we know there's a dir of information
because of this gag order but the defense has hinted at what its case will be in a court filing they have come out
and saying essentially what they're going to challenge and in the prosecution's case they're going to
challenge one the collection of the DNA there were uh three male other DNA samples found at the scene two inside
the house one in glove outside they still don't know who those belong to and the defense wants to know why they say
there's no connection none at all between coburger and any of the four victims in that house and if there's no
connection there's no motive why would he have done something like this and then to me one of the most
intriguing ones if it's true we don't know any of this because we don't it hasn't been litigated in in in ch and
hasn't been argued in in court they claim that there's absolutely now mind you this is one of the bloodiest crime
scenes ever I mean four people slaughtered with a a military St we saw the blood on outside of the house and
it's I know you probably went back and forth as to whether or not you should show that but I think it really sort of
gave you an idea of of what went on in yeah and the family told us they want the world to know the and this is the
word they use the ferocity of these murders it's important uh the savagery that went went into this right and as
Peter said that house was literally bleeding if the house could talk what would it say that's a wonderful question
but so back to this intriguing uh statement that the defense has put out there they say there's this bloody crime
scene we know how easily it is to get a hair or a speck of blood they say there's absolutely no DNA evidence of
anyone from that house or that house in his apartment in his car on his person and if that's true that is pretty
intriguing so let's talk about a receipt from Walmart and a Dicky's tag that was
found at his apartment though we don't know what items were listed on the receipt what does the Galas family think
this discovery really means the family has a has a u a theory they believe that that he brought what what they call a
kill kit that he had a bag that had a change of clothes what they're calling it what they're calling it and they said
that um and we did do not have this in did not have time for this in the hour but that during the the course of the
search warrant that was done at C Berger's house they have a receipt and that the receipt according to the
gonzalves family is in evidence right now and it may suggest that he bought a clothing that perhaps that he wore
during the course of this murder is what they're suggesting and that that clothing was not found at his apartment
after when when the search was done um but even so as Liza said because we have done so many of these stories the notion
you know when you're using a knife for for instance and there's called castaway blood you know as you raise it up and
then back down the Hair Skin blood the notion that nothing at all was found in that car nothing at all is is really
quite extraordinary and they will the defense is going to be playing that up and remember they say about his Alibi
for that night Brian cerg yeah he admits he was out driving late that night he was driving around that's what he says m
M that would explain the the cell phone in the vicinity and also seeing that car
on the you know surveillance cameras and among the things of course they're going
to talk about in in the prosecution of this case was the 12 visits prior to the murders in that neighborhood but also
there was a 13th visit the day of the murder once it became publicized because this occurred you know in the early
early morning hours well later that day prosecutors say that cobber to the affidavit his car was in that
area again but remember he's studying criminology and I'm sure he their people would argue yes he was fascinated by
this horrible crime and as a criminologist uh he he drove over as many people did into that area to see
what was going on but then there's always the theory that the criminal returns to the scene of the crime
because they want to see what's going on and they want to sort of get the last laugh haha I got away with this look at
everybody running around look at everybody right yeah well one theory that is out there that the Gonzales
family has come to believe is the notion that Brian coburger may have been inside
that house prior to the day of the murders and they base that on the fact that the coroner in the case told them
that the as salent entered the house and the first people that were attacked were
on the third floor of the house there were others on on the second floor and that suggested to the gonalves that the
killer knew to go to the third floor how would he know that if he hadn't been in
the house before so this is the fam's filling in the blanks though this is information trying to explain it right
that is what that we have not had any investigator tell us this of course there's this gag order and we have not
been able to verify that with any investigator because of the gag order but the gonzales's
uh mom and dad christe and Steve believe that he may have been in that house prior to the murders when you really
think about this whole thing how does this person in this house that has three floors know where to go and how to do it
and kill so so rapidly as one of our people said he's a student he's not an assassin right but it seemed like he was
so efficient which is I think one of the reasons why the the cons solices believe
he had to know where he was going when he got in there he had to know who he was after and what he planned to Doh now
Christie galz says she thinks he went in to kill one but he killed four so that he was caught off guard by
the fact that there were two people in the first bedroom exactly and there was also the bit about Kay's dog right uh
Kaylee slept with that dog every night uh and uh that was just that was their routine and when officials uh got to the
house uh discovered the uh that horrible scene the dog was in a separate bedroom
by itself and so that was just that just raised questions with the gonzales's that um did he know there was a dog had
he seen a dog in a visit had he actually even maybe given the dog a treat where it wouldn't bark at him and did he put
the dog in that room it's just something that the gonzaleses uh have focused on and raised
with us so we've been talking a lot about the different theories about how coburger may have committed these
murders but what is also new in this hour is the Gonzales has discovered what they think is a possible connection
between him and the victims so the the the the gonalves family heard the name Brian coburger Olivia Googles his name
and they end up finding this Instagram account that the family uh believes was a genuine one I want to play a little
sound from the hour about the connection that the family feels might be there you
would go to Maddie's Instagram account and look at her pictures and he liked them Brian's name was under a lot of
Maddie's pictures like that picture and that picture and that picture and that picture so he was
actively looking at the Instagram accounts and the importance of that is what just digital evidence that this
particular account had some type of connection with the with the victims and if that's true that's huge because what
it does is it establishes a relationship a connection between coburger and the victims at least two of the victims yeah
and the defense is saying there's no connection so which is true that will be a very important point to be made at
trial as as been said by one of our experts in the hour if there's no connection there's no motive everyone
who watches 48 Hours who's listening to this right now knows you don't have to have a motive prosecutors will tell you
all the time you don't have to and serial killers you know Ted Bundy didn't have to have a motive for each of his
killings he just had a satisfaction in in killing someone and the gonzalves has believe that that uh cerer who again is
accused of this not convicted of anything thing as as yet of course that he did this in their opinion simply to
kill to murder to experience that rush they do it for pleasure that's one one of the theories by our
criminologist expert who said that a crime like this seems to be done by somebody the viciousness of it uh by
somebody who takes pleasure in it um or has a sense of arousal from it mhm did you reach out to the coburger family yes
we've done that many times and um we're still hoping that they will change their
mind and and talk about Brian um and we hope that happens what I'm hearing uh is
that the coburger family does not believe he did it but there there is something very very interesting that
Steve cons Sol this uh was very clear about that he's going into this trial with an open mind that he
he thinks they think that it looks like coburger did it however maybe he didn't and they have H an open mind about that
well Steve has an open mind about that I was surprised by that because that is typically not something that you hear um
after someone's been arrested usually families of the victims are convinced usually that you know that's the right
guy yeah yeah and uh he has an open mind and we as journalists also have to have
an open mind yeah uh because the the facts of the case are being held so tightly so closely there's a lot we
don't know and we have to remember that and uh that's that was another challenge
in doing this hour I think right Peter yeah and uh absolutely and cob Berger has said through an attorney when he was
arrested in Pennsylvania he looks forward to his exoneration there were others though that you reached out to
that also didn't want to talk uh Maddie mogan's family her parents they did not speak to you for this episode mattye
Mogan um Maddie was a only child of of of her parents and the they have spoken of course at these Memorial uh get
togethers and things but it is so devastating and you look at her face you look at Maddie's face and you see this
this bright and she's intelligent this big-hearted woman with everything in front of her uh and they invested
everything and all their love and wisdom in this one child and that child is taken from them under these
circumstances um we understand Ethan Chapin's family um who obviously are suffering enormous loss they have chosen
to to not do an interview with uh 48 hours for this perhaps one day you know the want to talk but we completely
understand uh that they don't want to and and of course we respect that well what a moving episode for the
first one of this season of 48 hours and for the first postmortem podcast I really want to thank you Peter and lies
up for being here thank you andar it's our honor to tell this story it's so profound absolutely it is it's touched
all of us thank you em be sure to join us next Tuesday day for another postmortem watch 48 hours Saturdays 109
Central on CBS and also streaming on Paramount plus and be sure to follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcast you
can also listen ad free on the Amazon music or wonder app [Music]

Kaylee Goncalves' family says they may have uncovered a connection between the Idaho student murders suspect, their daughter, and Madison "Maddie" Mogen.

As we await the upcoming trial of Bryan Kohberger, who has been charged with the fatal stabbings of four University of Idaho students and could face the death penalty if convicted, watch "The Night of the Idaho Student Murders" and then catch up with "48 Hours" correspondents Anne-Marie Green and Peter Van Sant and producer Liza Finley on "Post Mortem" as they take you inside their latest reporting on the murders of Kaylee Goncalves, Maddie Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin. You’ll also hear about "48 Hours"’ first national television interview with Xana Kernodle’s family, along with theories from the families about what may have happened the night of the murders.

00:01 The Night of the Idaho Student Murders 42:00 Listen to a post-mortem on the episode

Listen to "Post Mortem" wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/Z7Gat5hP?sid=YT

True crime. Real justice. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the Idaho student murders and Brian Kohberger's trial, highlighting family grief and key evidence in the case.

Key points

The Tragic Crime Scene. Moscow is forever marked by the tragic murders of four University of Idaho students.
The Families' Agony. Families of the victims express their pain and the agony of waiting for justice.
The Killer's Methodology. Investigators reveal the calculated nature of the killer's actions and the brutality of the crime.
The Discovery of Evidence. Key evidence, including a knife sheath, leads investigators to the alleged killer, Brian Coberger.
The Arrest of Brian Koberger. Investigators recovered DNA from a knife sheath linked to Koberger, leading to his arrest.
The Gonzalves Family's Journey. The Gonzalves family prepares for trial, mentally ready to confront Koberger.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The worst day of your life, just your worst nightmare.

Jasmine Kotal describing the news of the murders.

9:03WatchSep 6, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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