The Lindbergh Conspiracies | Post Mortem | Forensic Files

In March 1932, the whole world was captivated and terrified by the kidnapping of 20-month-old Charles
Lindbergh Jr. the baby son of the famed aviator. >> And there's a chance that somebody might
notice one of the posters who'd recognize little Charles Lindbergh and so furnish a valuable clue.
>> He was mysteriously taken from his nursery on the second floor of the family's home in New Jersey while his
parents were downstairs. >> Meanwhile, the child is still gone and the parents are suffering tortures that
only fathers and mothers can suffer. >> Little Lindy's disappearance, along with
the discovery of his body, the arrest and prosecution of Bruno Hauptmann, was the original true crime story of the
modern media age, yielding countless theories about what really happened to the baby
of the most famous man in America. I'm CBS News Correspondent Jim Axelrod and welcome to a special episode of the 48
Hours podcast. I'm joined today by Free Press Senior Editor and Writer Jonas Sarakho who's out with a new six-part
podcast series about the kidnapping called The Lindbergh Conspiracy and we welcome in
Jonas Sarakho. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> Great for you to be here. 94 years since
this kidnapping. So much news has developed and unfolded since then. So why this? Why does the Lindbergh
kidnapping still claim so much interest? >> Um because it's a 94-year-old mystery
that many people feel has never been solved. I think there's two other aspects to it, though. Um one is
it's the original true crime story. I mean, it really is and we're a culture that's obsessed with true crime now. And
secondly, I think it gives a snapshot of a different America. >> Mhm. >> A more innocent country where a man like
Charles Lindbergh could be almost godlike in in the admiration Americans had for him, which doesn't
really exist anymore. >> Lindbergh was the first person to prove that flight could be more than um
daredevils or um war machines. >> Lucky Lindy, the first man to fly alone across the Atlantic.
>> It was an American hero kind of thing. It was like only an American could have
done this. >> But in terms of Lindbergh as this enormous world hero, he's also a deeply flawed man.
>> He was a um believer in eugenics. As as many upper class white people were at the time.
>> Which is the sort of selective breeding to promote certain traits. >> And he made trips to Germany
before the war and um they gave him some medal at one point. And he became part of the America First
movement, which was an effort to persuade the country not to go to war. He was also He also was shown to be during this
period of his life >> anti-Semitic. All right, so take us to March 1st, 1932. By Hopewell, New
Jersey, what happens? >> Well, it was a Tuesday night. The Lindberghs were never at Hopewell,
which was really their weekend retreat on a Tuesday night. >> And Charles Lindbergh was married to
Anne Morrow Lindbergh, who was an heiress and >> That's right. Very wealthy. They spent a
lot of their time in Englewood. Dwight Morrow, her father, who was a financier and a diplomat, uh lived in Englewood.
They would spend the week in Englewood and then they would go Hopewell for the for the weekend. But the baby had a
cold. And Anne was feeling pretty run down, too. So, nursemaid Betty Gow, she puts the
baby to bed at 10:00. Betty Gow goes upstairs, opens the door, looks into the baby's bedroom, he's gone. Anne would
later write, "At first I thought maybe Charles was playing a prank." Believe it or not, believe it or not, he
had once before hid the baby for 20 minutes from Anne and Betty as a prank. He did weird things.
>> He's bizarre. >> Yeah. >> But that's the first thought. Maybe he's playing a prank.
>> Maybe he's playing a prank. So, they go downstairs, Betty and Anne, and they say, "Charles, the baby's missing."
And he runs up the stairs and even before he gets in the room, he says, "They've kidnapped our baby."
Now, here's another little quirky thing. When Anne and Betty were in the room, they did not see an envelope.
When Charles gets in the room, now maybe it was there and they just didn't notice
it cuz then they were panicked. Charles gets in the room and he sees an envelope,
which is obviously the ransom note. So, he takes the ransom note and uh he says, "Don't open it. We're going to let
the police do that." He takes a gun, he takes a rifle, he runs outside, um can't find anything. He sees a ladder
that has been dragged 60 or 75 ft away. Um and then they call the police. >> So, quick question about the ransom note
because I I know there was some reporting not only didn't they see the ransom note, but then they found it on the
window sill. Is that right? >> Windows open, ransom note's on the sill. >> Windy night.
>> Windy night. >> Yeah. >> I mean >> So, you just So, you just stumbled on You've just hit upon
the first of many many many oddities. >> Mhm. >> Strange [clears throat] things that
happen that don't add up. And this is part of the reason the case so fixates people because once you start to dig in,
it's like, "Oh my god, that happened. Oh my god, that happened. Oh my god, that happened." I'll tell you the next one.
They could find no fingerprints anywhere in the room. Anywhere. On the walls. >> All right.
>> On the On the On the drawers. On the bed. No fingerprints. >> So, what kind of evidence was there?
>> The ransom note, obviously. >> Okay, so they had the rans- There was the ransom note.
There were footprints at the base of the of the window. >> Okay. That's probably helpful.
>> It would be if somebody took a mold, but nobody did. Because um the two cops that came were local cops.
They By the time the state police showed up, the grounds had been trampled to death
by journalists. Somebody had leaked the fact that the Lindbergh baby had been kidnapped, and
journalists just swarmed all over the place. >> Now, the New Jersey state police at that
point, uh run by and this is a sort of famous last name in American history, Schwarzkopf.
>> For famous first name, too. >> Norman Schwarzkopf. >> Father of Stormin' Norman. And it turns
out he worships the ground Charles Lindbergh walks on. So, not only does he not investigate the
possibility that the parents could be involved, he lets Lindbergh manage the investigation of his own child.
>> So, you have one of the people involved as as the parent of this victim dictating to all the
investigators what they can and can't do. You mentioned the note, the ransom note.
Whether whether it's legit or not, what does it say? >> In very broken English, it says, "Give us $50,000 and you'll get
your baby back." >> Broken English. >> Well, it was written It was clearly written by somebody who did not speak um
for whom English was not their first language. So, it had misspellings and not just vocabulary problems, but um
grammar problems. But then >> [gasps] >> Lindbergh then went on to make a series
of idiotic decisions. >> Well, take me through them though in terms of the decisions he made that
Sure. you might be critical of. >> Well, um the first decision he made was to give
the ransom note or a version of it at you know to uh a couple of mobsters because the mob thought uh
>> Because we needed another element to make it even weirder. >> Yeah. So, uh because the mob was known to kidnap
people once in a while. Um although as one of our experts on the podcast says, you know, this was such He said, "If the
mob had done it, it would be a professional kidnapping. This was This was clearly not a professional
kidnapping." But once the ransom note was out there, anybody could copy it. It It also had a
little red mark. And then future ransom notes also had the little red mark, so >> Sure. Well, then the whole thing's
compromised at that point. >> So, they could have been anybody. Extortionists, mobsters.
>> Let me ask you about Dr. John Condon. >> Jafsie, as he was known. Yeah. >> How does he get involved?
>> So, uh >> Who is he? >> Uh He writes a letter to his local paper, the Bronx Home News.
And he basically says he's a very pompous, full of himself, 70-plus year guy. And he basically says, "I'm going to add
a thousand dollars to the ransom money that I will contribute for myself." And And the kidnappers
put a note in the Bronx Home News saying basically, "Huh, get in touch with us." But what
happens is because the kidnappers give Jafsie a letter to give to Lindbergh, Lindbergh reads the letter and says,
"Okay, you obviously have some contact with these guys or this guy, so you're going
to be my intermediary." >> So Lindbergh's all in with Jafsie. >> So Lindbergh becomes all in with Jafsie.
That's exactly what happens. >> And they end up or Jafsie at least ends up having meetings with these guys?
>> Well, with somebody. He has two meetings in two different cemeteries. >> Jafsie's conducting all of his business
in cemeteries. >> Yes, that's right. In the first meeting, supposedly, and and by the way, I should
just say for the record, Jafsie is a major bullshitter. But he's the only person that you have
who's on record, so you have to at some point assume he's not completely making it up.
So he has his first meeting with the kidnapper, they have a long discussion. Jafsie says, "You got to prove to me
that you have the baby. You have to send me the um uh the baby's um uh nightgown that he
had the night he was kidnapped." Um he sent the nightgown to the Lindberghs. Um so that happens. So then uh Jafsie
meets again at a second cemetery in the in the Bronx. And this time Lindbergh goes with him, but Lindbergh stays in
the car. And um Jafsie has the the ransom money in a box. >> How much? >> 50,000.
As he's going to meet um the kidnap the kidnapper or extortioner, whoever he was. The guy says, "Hey
doctor." And even though Lindbergh is sort of around the corner in a car, Lindbergh
claims to have heard that and that and also claims that it was in a German accent.
He takes the 50,000. He disappears. >> Now, wait a minute. This claim was intriguing to you.
>> Well, we tried to replicate it. I I I sat in a car in the same position that Lindbergh was in and and Poppy, my
producer, was um at the cemetery and we couldn't get in there, so you have to stand outside. So, she was actually
closer than than Jafsy would have been. And so, she yells out, "Hey doctor." And
I couldn't hear a thing. I even even with the no traffic. >> Is this So, it it essentially
undercuts this part of Lindbergh's story that he heard somebody in a German with
a German accent >> say, "Hey doctor." >> from the cemetery. >> Right. >> So, all of this is unfolding. I'm sure
folks are looking for little Lindy's either the baby alive or >> Right. >> sadly a body and eventually
a body is >> A body is found 6 weeks later. >> Where? >> In the woods about 4 miles from
um the house in Hopewell. And the only reason it was found is because a um a truck driver had to take a leak
and walked into the woods and saw this uh this partially decomposed body. And they the coroner basically concluded
that that he had died from blunt force trauma. >> Let's talk about Bruno Richard
Hauptmann. >> Right. >> So, one of the great three-named notorious people in American history,
John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Bruno Richard Hauptmann. >> Yeah. >> Who is he?
>> He is a itinerant carpenter, an immigrant who's been in the US for about a decade.
The first time he came, um, illegally, he got caught and sent back. The second time he he managed to sneak through.
Um, >> But this is no Boy Scout. This is somebody who has a record. >> He He's been He was jailed in in
Germany. He didn't have a record in the US. Um, he he he seemed to be making an honest living. Uh, his wife worked at a
bakery. She made an honest living. They had a child. Um, they rented a house in the Bronx.
Needless to say, uh, yeah, rented a house in the Bronx. >> the Bronx. >> Yeah, that was uh
um, >> Why did he very quickly become the sole suspect? >> Well, because he had ransom money on him.
There was a certain kind of money called gold certificates that was about to go out of circulation.
The Treasury Department knew this, and so they insisted that a whole bunch of the ransom money be made in gold in gold
certificates, knowing that if somebody tried to to pass it off, >> it would be a tell.
>> It would be a tell. So, 2 years later, um, Hauptmann goes to a gas station, gives
the gas station attendant a bill and and uh >> And a gold certificate. >> certificate. And the the attendant
writes down the the plate number on the gold certificate. >> That is traced >> That is traced to Hauptmann.
They go into his house, and they do a search, and they find $14,000 worth of the $50,000 ransom.
>> So, that's a smoking gun. >> Well, it is and it isn't. It is and [laughter] it isn't.
Depends on who you ask. Hauptmann had a friend and business partner named Isidor
Fisch. He says Isidor Fisch gave him this box and said, "Please store this for me. I'm
going to go to Germany right now." So, he takes it home, he puts it up. Isidor Fisch does go to Germany and then Isidor
Fisch dies of tuberculosis. At which point Hauptmann says, "Okay, he's dead now. I'm going to take a look
at what's in here. Oh, wow, there's money in here. I'm going to take it." >> Were there any other suspects who were
ever seriously considered as having taken part in the kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh Jr.?
>> No. Here's the thing. Up until the moment they caught Hauptmann, they were all they had always assumed it was more
than one person. Because for the logically >> Because how are you going to pull all of
that off if if you don't have more than one person? >> Right. But once they got Hauptmann, it was like
we're done. >> You know, it's it's interesting to hear you say this, Joe, about the idea cuz
cuz what the the prosecution's case essentially relied on was that Bruno Richard Hauptmann, acting alone, drove
from the Bronx on a random night with no idea or he he really should have had no
capacity to have any confidence about it that the baby was going to be there, the
window was going to be open >> And how did he know which window led to the baby's room? How did
he know that was the only window in the house that could that could not be locked shut? So, could could Hauptmann
have been involved as part of a gang or something? Absolutely. Absolutely. But could he have done it by himself? I I
just find that implausible. >> And yet, Bruno Richard Hauptmann is tried and it is the trial of the
century. >> Right. So, don't forget this was called the crime of the century and once the
trial happened, it was the trial of the century. Now, I want to ask you something.
>> Yeah. >> So, rumor has it that you had uh your your relatives, your ancestors lived uh
>> So, growing up my grandfather and grandmother lived in Flemington, New Jersey.
And for years, in the 1930s, they had Axelrod's Pharmacy on Main Street across from the Hunterdon County
Courthouse. My grandfather had a lunch counter and I can remember as a kid him telling me stories of Damon Runyon
coming in. Walter Winchell would set up shop in my grandfather's pharmacy, Axelrod's Pharmacy on Main Street,
commandeer the phone, and Winchell was really establishing himself for the first time as this sort of he became
this monster media figure, but he put himself on the map with his reporting from the Hauptmann trial.
>> Right. Someone else from Flemington who was a source for our um he said, "You know, it's a town of 3,000
people. And the first week of the trial, there were 50,000 people there." He said, "The cars were backed up for like
10 miles." >> So, inside the courtroom, what was going on that that shaped and influenced the
proceedings? Because, if I understand you correctly, there is no way Bruno Richard Hauptmann had a fair trial.
>> That is correct. Uh by today's standards, it was an absolute travesty. And the fact of the matter is, even by
the standards of the 1930s, it was an unfair trial. >> How so? >> Um well, to start with, um
let's just take let's just take something simple like handwriting. So, obviously, um the prosecution is
going to have handwriting experts who are going to say that the handwriting is the same as Hauptmann's.
But Hauptmann says, when the police got him in the room, they said, "Okay." They
didn't just say, "Write some stuff." They said, "Look at this note." And they showed him the ransom note.
"We want you to write this exactly the same way that this that this ransom note is.
Exactly the same way. Same spelling, same, you know, you know, curvatures." >> Try to copy it.
>> Try to copy it. Then he gets into trial and they say, "Well, well, look, look, it's the same.
It's the same." Um >> Didn't he have a lawyer? >> Oh, he had a terrible lawyer. >> [sighs and gasps]
>> We had a lawyer on our show who said he became a lawyer because when he read about the Lindbergh
trial, and he was like 14 years old, he said, "You know, I could have done better than this." But, having said
that, it wasn't just the defense, it was also the prosecution. Um The handwriting analysis is just one
example. Um >> I understand there was something critically important about the ladder
>> Uh >> itself. >> Yes. Well, that is in dispute to this day. Um >> What was it?
>> Well, the prosecution said as definitive proof that Hauptmann did it, that a piece of wood
from his attic had been cut out and made part of the ladder. It is a handmade ladder. It was not a
ladder you go into Home Depot and buy. >> You've seen the ladder? >> Oh, yeah, it's at the New Jersey State
Police Museum. Yeah, anybody can see it. You can see it. It's um It's a really interesting ladder. I know
that's going to sound weird. It's an unusual ladder. >> But, this became a big >> Yes.
>> important piece of evidence for the jury to >> Right. And and this is this is some of
the stuff that I just find so unbelievable. That attic had been looked at, you know, dozen a dozen times
by by investigators after after Hauptmann was arrested. The home that the Hauptmanns were living
in was taken over by a police lieutenant who moved in. He He was living in the house
>> in the house. >> Yes. And he's the one who comes to them and says, "Hey, look at this hole in the
attic." So, um let me give you the denouement, as they say. >> Please. >> David Wilentz, the prosecutor, gets up
and he's going through his closing statement and he says, "And then, Hauptmann took a instrument and he hit
the baby over the head and crushed his skull." Now, there had not been one word of testimony
to this effect. The testimony had always been, "Well, the baby must have fallen and
cracked his head on the ground." To bring up a new allegation in a in a in a closing argument, that is
like against every rule in the book. Yet, neither the defense attorney nor the judge
said, >> Hang on here. >> You know, we we can't allow this. >> Did Hauptmann take the stand himself?
>> He did. >> Did he help himself? >> Yeah, not really. He kind of got chewed up. They caught him in a lie about the
gold certificates. His lack of language skills, you know, hurt him badly. His lawyer hurt him badly.
Um >> His lawyer was being hurt paid for by Hearst, the Hearst newspaper chain. I mean,
>> which had a vested >> which had a vested interest in wanting a salacious trial, which they certainly
got. >> Did he >> Wow. I didn't I've never heard that before that Did the defense lawyer
write for Hearst or >> No, they were paying Anna Anna Hauptmann for her quote unquote exclusive story.
So, in the least surprising verdict imaginable, Bruno Richard Hauptmann is found guilty.
>> That's right. And this is '35, correct? >> He [snorts] is executed in 1936. The Lindberghs as a couple, this whole
thing just engenders some sympathy for them, I would imagine to be fair, right? But they take off.
>> Well, yeah, they take off that for England for a while because, you know, um they want to get away from the press,
basically. They'd like to be a little more anonymous. It's I mean Charles Lindbergh hated the press. He'd
been dealing with it since his since he flew to Paris. >> In fact, we have a a clip from
[clears throat] Anne Lindbergh talking to Morley Safer in a 60 Minutes interview.
>> He really couldn't bear invasions on his privacy. Now, there I think there was something irrational.
He had an irrational feeling about the news. About new news newsmen. He felt they intruded on him. I don't
think he was quite rational. He had reasons not to be. I mean, we were terribly pursued and at the time of the baby's
kidnapping, the newsmen, some of them behaved absolutely terribly. Broke into the
morgue and took pictures of the baby and he never forgave them. >> You hear Anne Lindbergh describe
how much Charles Lindbergh hated the media. What did What does it What does that leave you?
>> I have some sympathy for him, to be honest. I mean, you know, so it's one thing to be, you know,
chased by the media cuz you did something amazing, you know, and and uh but there's another thing to be chased
by the media because your kid was kidnapped and killed. >> But it's only after this that he becomes
a less sympathetic figure. >> Very very true. Very true. As Hitler begins [clears throat] invading
Poland and other countries in Europe and he is the leading spokesman for the America First movement.
>> Did it cost Lindbergh in terms of popularity? >> It it sure it sure did. >> What a complicated man.
>> Totally. >> The complications don't end there either. >> Yes. Well, that's true.
He dies at the age of 74 in Hawaii. Very tiny funeral. 15 people, something like that.
And it comes out years later, many years later, that he has fathered seven children in
Germany with three different women. >> None of whom are his wife. >> None of whom are his wife. Two sisters.
First of all, he had he has five other children. He had five other children with Anne.
But then he, you know, he's always spent a lot of time in Germany. And so he fathered seven children
with three women, two two sisters and his secretary. And um and basically a German magazine at some
point um in the late '90s, early 2000s, breaks the story. They do DNA testing and they're his.
They're real. It's real. It's for real. >> He had adopted a a new name, a double
>> Yes. >> Carrot Kent? >> Carrot Kent. Like Clark Kent. Like the German version of of of Clark Kent.
>> I mean, the story just keeps If you're into bizarre, this just keeps the story
that keeps giving and giving and giving. >> Now, let me ask you this. It may not have been part of American
culture in the 1930s to think about conspiracy theories. But certainly after the Kennedy
assassination and certainly part of our modern life is, you know, you can't have two people
looking at the sky and agreeing it's blue. There's always some sort of other angle to be considered.
Were there any conspiracy theories about the Lindbergh kidnapping or did any develop later?
>> As you said, Kennedy assassination, RFK, Martin Luther King, Warren Commission,
um uh CIA uh secrets exposed on and on and on and Americans uh start to lose faith
in institutions and start to lose faith in government. >> [sighs and gasps] >> And so
around the around the late '70s, early '80s, books start to be written for the first
time that uh look at the trial and uh can make conjectures about what really happened.
And as America itself has become more conspiratorial, so has the belief in the Lindbergh
theories grown and grown and grown to the point that one of the people in our podcast said
you know, I think more people today believe Lindbergh has something to do with it than think Hauptmann had
something to do with it. What would the rationale be for that? >> So there there's a lot of theories that
that the child uh had rickets and had various other physical problems. >> Yeah, I'd read some delayed speech if if
there there were issues uh never proven. >> Correct. >> But this was uh sort of talked about later that Brett
>> that Lindbergh as a eugenicist could not abide. Let me add one other thing to
that. Uh uh Anne Lindbergh wrote a uh she published her diaries and letters from that era.
And in the diaries and letters about her son when he was alive and he's babbling and talking and playing
with his dad and playing with his mom and playing with Betty Gow. And you just read that and you just you
just like, "No, there's nothing wrong with this kid." I found it very hard to believe.
>> Is there a conspiracy theory that you encountered in your research that resonated, that perhaps true?
>> what resonates to me is the idea that more than one person did it. Whether Hauptmann was involved or
somebody else. I you know, there are there's one guy out there that that has a a name of a different person that he
believes did it. We don't need to get into that. It's too complicated. What I believe is that somebody inside the the
Lindbergh household was involved. >> Was there any part of this investigation that involved
DNA? >> They didn't have DNA back then. DNA didn't come till the late '80s, but there's a lawyer who is suing um the New
Jersey State Police Museum to have DNA tested on the ransom notes cuz the stamps probably still have DNA and the
envelopes the way you lick the envelopes probably still has DNA. New Jersey is resisting this like crazy.
Um but an an appeal >> Why? >> They say it'll damage the evidence. I don't really think that's the reason to
be honest. >> Can you imagine if there was DNA testing and it ruled out Richard Hauptmann.
>> Right. The point is that there is an appeal ongoing right now and we'll see what happens.
>> All right. So, sum up for for everyone listening, watching your series, your investigation in into
the Lindbergh kidnapping. The takeaway for you that you feel sort of most relevant for the day
in which we live is what? I connect it more than anything with the America we live in today.
That it teaches you so much about the judicial system. It teaches you so much about how we're
mired in conspiracies. Um it teaches you what the country was like back then versus what it's like
today. Um and it's a damn good story. I I I you know, this is what you and I live for.
>> Jonah Lehrer with a damn good story. Thanks for being here. >> Thanks for having me.
>> The Lindbergh Conspiracy's podcast is currently available wherever you get your podcasts.

"The Lindbergh Conspiracies" host Joe Nocera joins CBS News chief correspondent Jim Axelrod for a discussion about one of the most infamous true crime cases of the 20th century. The 1932 kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh's infant son captivated the world and became one of the first media frenzies of the modern era. But did convicted kidnapper Bruno Hauptmann act alone or was there more to the story? Learn why this case has been the subject of countless conspiracy theories.

True crime. Social justice. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

The episode covers the Lindbergh kidnapping, its investigation, Hauptmann's trial, and ongoing conspiracy theories surrounding the case.

Key points

The Kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh Jr.. In March 1932, the world was captivated by the kidnapping of the famous aviator's son.
Bruno Richard Hauptmann. Hauptmann, an immigrant carpenter, becomes the prime suspect in the kidnapping case.
The Discovery of the Body. Six weeks after the kidnapping, the body of Charles Lindbergh Jr. is found.
The Trial of the Century. Hauptmann's trial captivates America, raising questions about fairness and justice.
The Shocking Closing Argument. The prosecutor introduces a shocking new allegation in his closing statement.
Lindbergh's Complicated Legacy. Exploring Charles Lindbergh's controversial life and the media's impact on his family.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

He was a believer in eugenics.

Describing Lindbergh's controversial beliefs.

2:56WatchJun 3, 2026

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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