Terrifying Stalker Stories | 48 Hours Full Episodes | Forensic Files

[music] My mom said, "Scott shot Penny." [music] And I was like, "Is she okay?" And my mom [music]
was just like, "No, she's not okay." >> Penny was a bright and trusting 15-year-old.
>> She was neat. She's a neat little girl. But to Scott's brothers, a family friend, Penny became an obsession. He
started stalking her. There were threats. >> How many phone? >> Oh, >> 100 times a day.
>> Scott was arrested, hospitalized. >> He's in their psychiatric ward writing, "How cool will you look [music] when I
walk up and blow your brains out?" >> Then the unthinkable. [snorts] Aaron Morardi has some tough questions.
Are the doctors who treated him responsible for Penny's death? are her parents and they are the familiar faces
on your local news. Are they in danger? >> Nobody knows right now how many news anchors [music] get stalked.
>> A stalker chased this reporter out of town. >> Letters detailing about sexual
fantasies, ultimately ending with me being drowned in a bathtub. >> This reporter never had a chance to run.
>> 911, what's your emergency? >> Troy Roberts on being watched a little too closely.
>> What did you want from her? I don't know. >> 48 Hours investigates to catch a
stalker. Good evening and welcome to 48 Hours Investigates. I'm Leslie Stall. Penny
Chang knew and trusted Scott Strs. So did Penny's parents. Indeed, Scott Strs was like a member of the family and just
about the last person they would have ever suspected of posing a threat to their daughter. That's what makes this
case even harder to understand. There were warning signs that may have been missed, and there may have been
miscommunication, too. But there is also a question hanging over this case as to
whether the experts, the doctors are at all to blame. To Penny's family, the answer is clear. Aaron Morardi reports
on a story of misplaced trust that led to tragedy >> outside Cleveland, [music] Ohio. located
is a A21. >> Mathematician Seel Chang found what he couldn't in his native China academic
freedom and [music] a culturally rich and diverse neighborhood where he and his wife Yunwa could raise their four
[music] children. >> He wanted us to have a stable, happy family, you know, just for us to have a
better life. >> Joanne Chang, the oldest, loved growing up in Shaker Heights. You see children playing outside all the
time and it's just it's a comforting place to live. So you ready? >> I'm ready if you are.
>> Joanne is a medical student. Shawn is pursuing a master's degree in computer graphics.
>> You want to watch a football? >> Warren, the youngest, is a high school junior. And then there was Penny.
>> He's the most beautiful child we had. >> How did you name Penny? >> Penny is Pennsylvania. It's not
Pennsylvania. who was born in Pennsylvania. >> You must have really liked Pennsylvania.
>> And did she speak Chinese very well? >> So, so she was so so Americanized. >> Uncle,
>> she's definitely pretty much a typical American girl. I mean, talked on the phone for hours. She was neat. She's a
neat little girl. >> Hi. a child who thrived in her adopted community where no one would have
predicted what happened. >> Shaker Heights is is a an affluent suburb. Um it's very diverse. There's a
lot of old money. [music] Um and I think people don't like to think things like this happen in places like that. And uh
you know, we've learned they do. Mike Tobin, a reporter for the Cleveland Plane Dealer, says the problems began
for the Chang family in the summer of 1998. Penny had a summer job working alongside
Scott Strs, her brother's best friend since middle school. >> How would you describe Scott back then?
>> Very shy, very quiet, you know, really odd, really, you know, unorthodox sense
of humor that I just found hilarious. Scott had almost grown up at the Chang House [bell] and went on to become
Shaun's college roommate. >> He's just so nice and he's such a close friend of my brothers.
>> Which is why no one was too concerned when Scott and Penny spent a lot of time
together, [music] although Penny was only 15 and Scott was 21. Did your parents think anything of it that they
were spending a lot of time together? >> No. Why would they think a 21-year-old boy, friend of my brother, be a threat
to my 15-year-old sister? >> But the family didn't realize how serious Scott's feelings were.
>> Penny was pretty important to him. >> Yeah. And I think you see that in the journals where um Penny, at least for
that summer, was his life. >> Scott's brothers began a journal later that year that described his
relationship with Penny. In his journal, you see him talking about this girl is this wonderful thing and the object of
his affection. The times that I [music] had spent with Penny this summer when things were going good and she was nice
to me was like a dream come true. The weather was beautiful. So was she and I was at times happier than I had ever
been in [music] my life. >> There was only one problem. Penny didn't feel the same way. It seems like he
definitely read too much into it and really thought that, you know, she liked him and I just don't think that was the
case. When the summer ended and Penny began ignoring Scott, >> the Chang family phone began ringing off
the hook. >> How many phone calls? >> Oh, 100 times a year. >> Midnight. Midnight.
>> Midnight. >> Midnight. We We disconnect the phone. >> Yeah. But things got worse. He tried to burn
down the garage. He um put glue, my parents' gas tank. He threw like miscellaneous objects through the
window, like little rocks. >> They used the slim shut. >> This windows was broken. The front one,
the biggest front one, it was broken. >> Days later, the police arrested Scott Strs.
Shaker Heights Police Chief Walter Ugrrenic. >> Would you describe Scotts as a stalker?
>> Yes. Yes, he was following her. He was uh keeping an eye on her. >> He seemed like a shy, kind young boy.
Well, guess not so much. >> Were you worried that Scott would ever hurt her? >> I was a little, but it wasn't
overwhelming. >> Did she seem scared of him at all? >> She didn't. She didn't. She was 15. STRS
was charged with telephone harassment and misdemeanor arson, but right before sentencing, he voluntarily admitted
himself to this hospital for observation. >> Do you think Scott Strawthers went to
the Cleveland Clinic cuz he really wanted help? >> No, I think it was a legal tactic to to
show the court, you know, I'm sorry and I'm I'm taking steps to correct my behavior and I'm I'm sick and I'm
getting help. Whatever his motive, Stru stayed here for five weeks. He was released on Thanksgiving Day 1998 after
doctors determined he was no longer a threat. Even though the journal that Strs began as part of his therapy here
contains some very threatening entries. >> It's it's scary. You know, it's it's just frightening because he he
>> [snorts] >> lays out what he's going to do. And you see this progression, this evolution in
his mind of of her as this sweet little girl to this evil object that has to be made to pay.
>> The tone of Scott's writing becomes increasingly menacing. >> I think that my actions were a way to
force myself to be an important part of her life, even though it was in a negative way. [music] I once thought,
"Forget about me, [ __ ] I will make you remember me forever." And and then the one that just I still to this day can't
get over. How cool and superior will you look when I blow your brains out into the ground?
He's at the Cleveland Clinic in their psychiatric ward writing, "How cool will you look when I walk up and blow your
brains out?" And 5 months later, in broad daylight across the street from the police station, it's exactly what he
did. Three and a half months after being released from the Cleveland Clinic at 7:30 on a cold March morning, Scotts
stalked Penny Chang one more time as she walked to school. He approached her from behind and shot
her three times in the back of the head. blood pressure. >> Penny was rushed to the emergency room,
>> but it was too late. >> They bring me to the to see to see Penny. I saw Penny sleep on the bed. And
if I read the flower >> flower and all the blood >> blood, >> I know what what happens.
I check her puss. I found nothing. >> My mom said, "Scott shot Penny." And I was like, "Is she okay?"
And my mom was just like, "No, she's not okay." Oh my gosh. Those words were, "She's not okay." Well, how bad off is
she? She's dead. This had been a best friend. What was your reaction to that? >> Oh, shock, of course. You know, it's
just this out of this world shock. It's just unbelievable. >> 6 months after the shooting, Scott's
brothers plead guilty to murder. He's now serving a sentence of 23 years to life.
>> I mean, I'm glad that he's not going to see like the sun come up really. And I'm
going to make sure of that, too. I just keep >> But for the Chang family, Scott isn't
the only guilty party. >> Do you blame someone for Penny's death? >> The first of all, brand of course is
Scott Strather. The second person is the person took care of Scott Strother. >> For the entire five months prior to
Penny's death, Scott Strs was receiving psychiatric care. first as a patient here at the Cleveland Clinic and then
when he was released from a private therapist, the Changens believe these professionals could and should have
stopped others from killing their daughter. They're suing them for $20 million. >> I fear they made so much mistake.
>> The case is pursued as a wrongful death case. >> Paul Kaufman is a Chang attorney.
>> What do you see as the biggest failing on the part of Cleveland Clinic? I think
their biggest failing was in in discharging him when they did. I mean, it's our position he still needed to be
hospitalized. >> Everyone agrees that when Strers first arrived at the Cleveland Clinic after
stalking Penny and facing charges of harassment, he was a severely troubled young man.
>> Do you remember meeting Scott? >> Yes, I do. >> Forensic psychiatrist Kathleen Quinn. So
in many ways he looked quite ordinary although the concerns were extraordinary about him.
>> What do you mean? >> Well that there was an issue of dangerousness. >> Dr. Quinn says Strers exhibited a number
of behaviors which made him a significant risk for violence including severe anger, homicidal thoughts, and a
desire to obtain a gun. >> That resulted in an immediate hospitalization uh and there being a a commitment paper
uh drawn up. What's more, STRS made no secret of his desire to kill Penny in his journal. But Strs appeared to
improve and after just five weeks of treatment, he was discharged. Even though hospital records show doctors
still had some concerns. >> Two days before he was discharged, they didn't believe him and they they doubted
his credibility and he was he was showing no remorse and he was having no emotional reaction. I I don't see how
anybody could think that this young man was ready to be discharged. >> I had some concerns about his veracity.
>> George Tessar was the attending psychiatrist who authorized Str's release. >> They weren't consistent concerns from
day to day and by the end of the evaluation, I was quite convinced that he was telling us the truth as he felt
it. Then >> in an exclusive interview with 48 hours, Dr. Tesser says he released others only
after seeing great improvement in his patient. >> He no longer made those uh statements
about wanting to kill her or feeling any uh compulsion to kill her. He was feeling better.
>> According to Tessar, the homicidal thoughts expressed in Scott's journal were all in the past tense. At one point
in his journal, he writes, "Basically, I was thinking, how cool and superior will
you look, [ __ ] when I blow your brains out into the ground, right? >> You can just get rid of those feelings a
week or two later." >> Well, I think uh yeah, that's possible. He was not conveying the same kind of
impression at the end of this hospitalization. >> This man's assessment at discharge was
correct. It was correct because he didn't do anything when he was discharged. >> Attorney Jim Malone is defending the
Cleveland Clinic. >> Nothing violent took place for three and a half months. >> He says expecting psychiatrists to
predict violence that far into the future is expecting too much. >> The Cleveland Clinic has uh every uh
medical device uh to benefit humankind. The one thing they don't have is a crystal ball that works. Our clinical
experience suggests that we're pretty good at it um uh at predicting violence in the short term 24 48 72 hours after
an evaluation. Beyond that, nobody's very good at p uh predicting violence. If the Cleveland Clinic couldn't predict
that Scott Strs would become a killer, what about the private therapist who picked up his case and saw him regularly
right up until he bought a gun to kill Penny? >> Rain will call rain to the stand.
>> Scott STS met with Raina Krell regularly for three and a half months. On March
12th, 1999, STRs bought a gun, took it to this shooting range, and practiced firing it.
Although he had seen Krell two days earlier, she saw no sign of his escalating anger.
>> How did Raina Krell not see that? >> I think you'd have to ask her. >> Cra refused to talk with 48 hours, but
she told the court, >> "Did he ever make any threats of any kind?" >> No. >> Did he ever have any evidence of recent
homicidal ideiation? >> No. >> Did he ever show any evidence of present dangerousness? No, he had talked about
comments of feeling regret, feeling um more personally responsible. He uh demonstrated an interest in work.
>> From your perspective, is this is this positive, negative? What >> I viewed it as positive?
>> I think she looked at him as sort of the jilted boyfriend depression type of situation and never really got below the
surface. >> Is it possible that he was such a good actor? He really fooled all the doctors.
>> Sure, it's possible. But the problem with that is that these doctors are the experts.
With millions of dollars and their reputations at stake, Scott's brother's doctors are fighting back by pointing
the blame [music] at Penny's own family. >> He's the most beautiful child we have.
>> That's next. just plain oldfashioned evil. And there is scarcely anything that can be done by
mental health or anybody else to prevent evil from having its way. Penny Chang was gunned down by this former patient,
Scott Brothers. Cleveland Clinic attorney Jim Malone says doctors did all they could for both Strs and the Chang,
including taking the extraordinary step of calling the Chang family to tell them
of Strut's release. But was that phone call sending a [music] mixed message? >> You're discharging him because you think
he's safe? Why then do you feel an obligation to inform the chains? That sounds like you weren't quite sure
whether he was safe. >> Cleveland Clinic psychiatrist George Tessar. We thought in in in view of uh
the comments that he had made and the kind of interaction he'd had with the Chang uh prior to the hospitalization
that it was only courteous, fair to let them know that he was being discharged. >> So there was a little concern.
>> There was concern that they should be informed that he was no longer in the hospital.
>> But the Chang say that phone call led them to believe they no longer had to worry about Strs. My dad told me, they
called and say, "Scott is no longer a threat to your family." And with that little comment, I mean, my actually my
dad was very relieved. >> We trust the Cleveland Clinic very much. They say no problem. They have no
intention. We say, "Okay, he he's possible still a good boy, right?" >> But the hospital left out an important
fact. Their assessment of Strs was only meant for the short term. >> Did anybody tell the Changens that? Did
anybody say, "Okay, today we think he might not be a risk, but a month down the road, it's anybody's bet, and you
better be careful." >> No, we didn't tell the Changens that. Common sense would tell you that you
don't know exactly what's going to happen uh 3 months down the line. >> Do you think in retrospect that warning
was enough for the Changs? >> I don't know. It's certainly an important point to consider.
>> Whether or not the warning was adequate is an issue at trial because of what happened nearly 3 months later. The
Changens claimed that phone call is the reason why they didn't become alarmed when out of the blue, Scotts make
contact again. >> Everything that happened to Scott after the summer is all Penny's fault. She
ruined his life for her own petty amusement. Scott, >> this time it was in the form of emails.
>> Everything he did was >> Cleveland plane dealer reporter Mike Tobin. >> The number one rule of stalking is never
use your own phone. He didn't care if he got caught. >> He's talking about talking about
himself. The same angry rambling emails written in the third person were sent to
Penny, her brother, and her father. But the Chang didn't find them threatening. >> I saw nothing dangerous in February
email. >> Nothing dangerous, just angry. >> Just complain. >> Complaining. >> Complain.
>> I don't think they believe there was anything to worry about, but my word, what do you have to hear to be worried?
in response to the f >> in fact the Changens reached out to Strs after receiving them do anything
>> all basically you know I said look okay you've scolded her enough just leave her
alone and continue your life you think about Penny there's lots of girls I don't stay campus
>> when you emailed him what did you say back >> like a teacher I say go back to the
college immediately >> you are ruining yourself >> isn't it possible the Changs were still
relying on the word of the hospital 3 months earlier. He's no longer a threat and that's why they didn't react to the
emails. >> I suppose it's a conceivable explanation but a rather naive response to threat.
>> One month later, just days before the murder, Strs emailed the Changens again.
>> Next time it's a March email about 60 pages. >> 60 pages. >> 60 pages like a book. This time the
Changens didn't read them, thinking they were simply more of Scott's harmless complaints.
>> And I saw nothing dangerous in the few first few pages. >> Had he read [music] further, he would
have been horrified. Buried within the 60 pages, [music] Stru spells out his plan to kill Penny.
>> I would like to take a hammer and repeatedly smash her face and with [music] it until her face is a soupy,
bloody pulp. Scott's moral duty has been satisfied [music] by just sending these
messages. You can never say that you didn't know. You were given the [music] opportunity. Remember that.
>> That's really creepy. >> Yeah. >> He was warning them of what he was going to do and they didn't realize it.
>> I thought he was doing better. >> Neither did Raina Krell, the therapist who had been treating Strs at the same
time he was writing out his murderous intentions. >> Did you when you were treating Scott
Strs have any information at all relating to these emails? >> No, I did not. Did you ever hear of
>> what you were treating? >> No. >> Did you do your very best treating Scott's brothers?
>> I did the best I could with the information I had. >> You're a professional person.
>> You're not expecting her to be a mind readader. >> Nobody's mind reader, but you still
should know he has the intention. But Cleveland Clinic attorney Jim Malone says since only the Chang knew about the
emails, only the Changs could have prevented their daughter's death by notifying the police.
>> In the bottom of your heart, Dr. Chang, don't you know that you should have called for help? That a call to the
police would have stopped all of this. >> If I read this email totally, definitely
I call police. was part of your strategy to deflect blame away from the hospital
and onto the chain. >> No, I don't believe they're responsible for the death of their daughter. But
what I say is this. If that phone call had been placed, the Shaker Heights Police Department would have had this
man off the streets very rapidly. We could probably take some of the blame, right? But here, they're trying saying
that it's not their fault at all. What kind of bull crap's that? >> All right. Now, it's up to the jury to
decide. >> If the doctor, the psychiatrist, looks at a patient and makes a decision about
a treatment plan or a discharge plan, and he does that in so-called good faith, then he's immune by law from the
consequences of that decision. >> I will read the verdict in this case. >> After [music] just 2 hours, the jury
agrees. >> As to the defendant, Cleveland Clinic, in favor of the defendant, Cleveland
Clinic. asked to the defendant Rea Cra in favor of the defendant Raina Cra. >> The Changens will get nothing [music]
from the clinic or the doctors. >> Where do you think the weak spot in your case was?
>> I think it's extremely difficult to win a case against doctors andor therapists.
We've got a lot of burdens to overcome. All of the burdens are on us. >> What should we take from this case?
>> We've learned that there are profound limitations to what psychiatry can do and what its ownus of responsibility
should be. We made our decisions based on what we thought were reasonable observations and interpretations of what
we were seeing. And it could well be that the Changens were as well. [music] >> But Dr. Chang still believes the
psychiatrist could have done more. And since we first brought you this story, [music] he's filed an appeal for a new
trial. >> Penny was clear. Nobody can change the situation. [music] But I like to show as many of
psychiatrist do your professional job. carefully. Don't repeat such things. We don't like this happened again.
>> What advice would you have for [music] a family that's in your situation? >> It's better to be extremely [music]
worried and than to have this happen. I'm sorry. So what? You're worry worse. So what? Ooh, big
deal. You'll have a sister. You have your daughter. Stalking happens to be an occupational
hazard of this business, television reporting, that nobody likes to talk about. But the stalking of on-air
personalities is a growing concern. It's even become a topic of conversation at various professional gatherings among
local television anchors and reporters. They are especially at risk since they're often encouraged to connect with
the audience on a personal level. The trouble is it's hard to know who's watching. Troy Roberts has a story of
some local television reporters who made the headlines for all the wrong reasons.
>> Energetic meteorologist George Kesler was the top rated weatherman in Duth, Minnesota.
>> Take look. Here's satellite picture in motion. You say, George, why is it so windy? In all of our audience research,
we saw George Kesler as our most popular personality. >> KBJR TV news director David Jench.
>> People felt like George Kesler was their friend. >> Now, the Channel 6 6:00 news
>> live television. [music] You can't beat it for a rush. >> If you're deep down inside secretly an
adrenaline junkie, it's um it's what you want to do. I know. Is that frozen now?
>> Kesler felt right at home in Duth with his wife Sheila and their small children. This was a perfect fit for
you, right? You liked the city. >> Love the city. Duth is a great town. You could drop a money clip in the middle of
the street and somebody chase after you to give it back. And so you have this wonderful sense of it is it's almost
childlike the security that you have here. Snow showers will hold up. You think they're just going to die and
they're dead. But for George Kesler, the childlike security would turn into agony
and fear in the very town he embraced at the same TV station he loved. It all began to unravel one day in March of
2000 when Kesler arrived for work. >> It was Monday and I was [music] coming through uh the newsroom pretty quickly.
Saw that my message light was on. So you're putting your stuff down. You set your voicemail to play back and all of a
sudden it just erupted. This, you know, stream of vitriol came out of the phone.
>> I'm a man, Mr. Kesler. I'm not some ass homosexual. Do you understand me? >> The caller was a man Kesler had never
met. 42-year-old Shawn Wayne Thorson, a psychiatric patient with a reputation for violence.
>> Did Sean Thorson threaten you with bodily harm? >> Oh, yes. In no uncertain terms,
>> the next time you call me, preferably gay, Mr. Weatherman, I'm gonna beat the
out of you. And that's no joke. >> He was seeing George's weather and he felt that George was saying things to
him. I've seen things, threatening things. He felt George was threatening him through the TV.
>> Yeah, this is Sean again, and I'm not going to accept your apology, you happen
to be one of those people who can uh dish it out but can't take it, huh, yourself? Well, you're going to find out
the hard way, my friend. I can definitely do something about it and God bestowed upon myself the power to do so.
>> Thorson ignored warnings from police, even a restraining order to stop making
the phone calls. For that, he spent 4 months in a mental institution. But after he was released, Thorson went
straight back to the phone. >> And your ass ain't getting away with what the you've done to me, especially
for calling your dogs the police on me. Over the next year, Thorson was committed and released for mental
illness two more times. Incredibly, there was nothing more Kesler or the police could do.
>> The way the laws are, you can't necessarily have security in a situation like this until something really bad
happens. >> Do you think given the opportunity, Sean Thorson would have killed you?
If he was in the grips of a delusion and I happen to be available to him, yes, without a doubt.
>> The question really is how many stalkers does a celebrity have? Not if they have
any. >> Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Park Deetsz has spent years investigating and testifying against serial killers and
stalkers, including Jeffrey Dmer and John Hinckley. Deiet says stalking of television news personalities is an
occupational hazard that few in the TV industry are willing to discuss. >> The illusion of intimacy is inherent in
the medium. It's inevitable that some viewers are going to be attracted to this.
>> Take a look. Satellite picture in motion. >> And while George Kesler's ordeal wasn't
unique, stalkers more frequently target women. The ideal victim is a sweet, kind, gentle, pretty, accepting,
approachable virgin that allows many men in the audience to have the view she's meant for me.
>> Good afternoon and welcome to News7 at Noon. I'm Melanie Moon. Anchorwoman Melanie Moon was a rising star at WDBJ
in Rowanoke, Virginia, when in 1996 she started getting dark suggestive letters from not one but several viewers.
>> Letters detailing about sexual fantasies and ultimately ending with me being drowned in a bathtub.
>> What did these letters do to you psychologically, emotionally? >> Give you nightmares. For months, I would
take a shower with the bathroom door locked, would be at the grocery store. If someone looked at me strangely, for a
second, I would think, "Maybe that's them." By the fall of 1997, the FBI was searching for Melanie Moon stalkers.
Then she began hearing from 47-year-old David Lee Duff. >> The first couple letters I got, he would
call me the goddess of dawn. and um you and I are alone together each morning in
my room. They got to things like, "I like what you were wearing today. I know you were wearing it for me. Um I saw you
smiling at me today. Thank you." And then he sent me um an engagement ring. >> Even after all she'd been through,
Melanie Moon didn't think David Lee Duff was out to harm her. After all, he had only sent what she believed were fairly
innocent tokens of his affection. But on November 5th, 1997, Duff crossed the line and came to visit Melanie at work.
The confrontation was caught on videotape. Duff was told to leave and he did so without incident. Ronuk police
then warned him to stop contacting Moon, but the harassment didn't stop. >> He continued to write letters saying
things like, "They can't keep us apart. I'll wear jailhouse orange if I have to."
It almost came to [music] that. >> This court is again in session. Please proceed.
>> In March of 1998, Melanie Moon saw her stalker for the first time at the Rowan
Oak City Courthouse. >> This takes away even more of your of feeling feeling um secure and safe.
>> David Lee Duff was convicted of stalking, but all he got was a six-month suspended sentence. or which Gold has
some breaking news. >> Melanie Moon got out of Rowan Oak, taking a new job in another city where
she's better prepared for unwelcome attention. >> Tear gas on my keychain. >> Carrying tear gas on her keychain and a
stung gun in her purse. >> Haven't had to use it yet. >> Park De says he understands why she has
them. >> Nobody knows right now how many news anchors get stalked. The likelihood is
that for good-looking females on the news nightly, it's 100%. >> It's a warning Deiet says that not
enough television personalities take seriously. >> 911, what's your emergency? 911. What's your emergency?
>> Well, I'm just wondering if you guys could send out somebody to uh check out my neighbor upstairs. I heard a lot of
thumping on the floor. Really loud. >> January 22nd, 1998. At 8:30 a.m., Michael Goodman calls 911
in Temple, Texas. >> Okay. in um going to be apartment 246. >> 246. Yeah. Her name's uh Katherine
Fitman. >> Okay. Does she live alone up there? >> Um yes, she does. >> Minutes later, police arrive at the
Wildwood Apartments and make a horrifying discovery. Popular local TV reporter Katherine
Deman's nude body on the floor of her bedroom. >> Details are sketchy at this point, but
here's what we know. Right. The 36-year-old Deman had been on the verge of an important career move. She was
taking a new job at a much larger TV station in Dallas. This would be her last day of smalltown life in Temple,
Texas. >> It was common for her to uh in the morning get up, let the cat out, and
leave the door slightly a jar uh so the cat could come in and out while she went
about making coffee, getting ready to go to work. >> Assistant DA Murf Bledsoe. The evidence
appeared that she had come out of the shower. She may have heard a noise and come out in a robe or a towel and there
was a confrontation. >> We have a homicide. >> It was an extremely violent attack.
>> Temple police sergeant Keith Reed. >> She had 15 to 16 stab wounds. >> Suspect in custody. Suspect in custody.
The suspect was 21-year-old neighbor Anthony Gary Sylvestri. Police found him hiding in Katherine Deman's bedroom.
>> His clothes were covered in blood and uh he had blood on his fingers in his hands.
>> Friends of Katherine Deutman say Sylvestri had been stalking her. One co-orker told us Catherine had
complained to him that Sylvester was following her at the apartment complex and showing up in her car when she came
and left home. >> She told me about this young guy asking her out at her apartment complex when
she had gone to check her mail. >> Yolanda Johnson was a receptionist at the station where Catherine worked and a
close friend. She remembers Catherine mentioning Sylvester by name. >> He had told her that he had seen her on
TV and thought she was a very beautiful lady. >> She confided in you. Yes. >> Paula Brown considered Katherine Deppman
her best friend. She says Deman was a trusting person and just didn't recognize Sylvester's interests as
potentially dangerous. >> She would have said something. I mean, she would call when her stomach hurt. If
someone were after her, we would have known that. >> Deman's naive doesn't surprise Park
Deetsz, who says many on air personalities aren't even aware they're being stalked. Most station managers
don't even give the news anchors all their mail or all their email. Very few stations have adequate screening of who
gets on the premises or do the things for their talent that can help protect them.
>> Anthony Gary Sylvestri plead guilty to the murder of Katherine Deman and is serving a 40 years to life prison
sentence. I was at the wrong place at the wrong time and I got mad and I lost my temper.
>> Police searched Sylvester's apartment and found this pair of binoculars which
they believe he used to spy on Detman and a friend of Sylvester's told authorities that Sylvestri had been
watching her. >> Sylvester had taken him uh to the part of the apartment where he could look out
across the courtyard and see a window of Catherine's apartment. >> What did he say
>> as he's looking through the binoculars? She's really fine. She looks like a model.
>> What did you want from her? >> I don't know. >> She really believed that if she was kind
and accepting that people would treat her well. I think that was her desire and I think
that was her belief >> and her mistake >> and her mistake. >> It's a bad night out there, folks.
There's no way around it. Temperatures >> in Duth, Minnesota, weatherman George Kesler heard about what happened to
Katherine Deetman. >> Yeah, this is Shawn again. I'm really not afraid of you people.
>> And after enduring nearly a year of Shawn Thorson's menacing phone calls, he made a drastic decision. Kesler quit his
job and no longer works in television. >> And I said, you know, this is not something that's going away. In his own
twisted way, he wanted you to walk away from your job and he accomplished that. >> Yes,
>> he won. >> We have to understand that he wasn't doing it out of malice. >> Doesn't matter. He won,
>> right? >> Yes, he did. In the last decade or so, all 50 states have passed anti-stalking laws. At least
a dozen states make stalking an automatic felony. And by no means is it mainly celebrities who are victims. If
you feel you're being followed or threatened, report it to the police, tell a friend, and keep a record of it.
That could all be crucial to staying safe. No one wants to go through life looking over their shoulder, but experts
say a little healthy suspicion could be the first step to stop a stalker. That's 48 hours investigates.
[music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> One of my [music] friends mom had texted
me cuz she lived pretty close to Grapevine Lake and she was like, "Look what happened."
>> Developing story right now, a body found on the banks [music] of Grapevine Lake.
>> Nothing happens in Grapevine. Nothing except for what [music] he did. The victim was identified as Jacqueline
Vandergri. >> Hello everyone. My name is Jacqueline Vandergri, but friends call me Jackie.
>> Jackie Vandergriff was 24 years of age. >> I am currently a junior here at Texas
Women's University, and my [music] major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness.
>> And just beyond this area where the shade is pretty [music] much hitting is where we had our crime scene.
There are a lot of things that will shock you and this is by far the worst thing I have seen.
>> My manager text me. >> Charles has just been arrested. I felt like the [music] world was
spinning like everything was out of control. It's believed that last [music] Tuesday
Jacqueline Vandagramriff met up with Charles Bryant at a bar in Denton. Surveillance video, also cell phone
pings, all put Vander Griffin Bryant together. >> I remember him just being kind of quiet.
I immediately said, "There's [music] no way. They have the wrong guy. There's no
way that he did this." >> Are you telling me there's no evidence that Charles Bryant killed Jackie
Vandergri? >> Not direct evidence of it. This is [music] kind of my calling dealing with these really strange cases.
The serial killer, the ritualistic killings. >> Hey, how you doing? How's >> today?
>> Good. Jim Holland with the Rangers. Life good today or not? >> This is not a a normal homicide.
>> You know how they kill someone? >> It all seemed to have started [music] with Caitlyn.
>> How screwed up are you from Caitlyn, man? In the early days, it was good. After
[music] that first month, that's when I started to see these warning signs that he was manipulative, very controlling. I
just told him, "I can't do this anymore. This isn't [music] working. This is over."
He flipped out. >> He showed up at your dorm room out of the blue. You never gave him the
address. >> No. >> You know, you trespassed. In his mind, he was seeking revenge.
>> The warrant that we got is for stalking >> on his [music] ex-girlfriend who had
called the police on him. >> How he was stalking me was completely related to Jackie [music] Vandergri's death.
>> There's some similarities, the way that Vandergriff looks and the way that Brian's ex-girlfriend
looked. Do you think there's a chance, a possibility that he walked into this bar
and saw somebody, reminded him of you and took his rage out on her? >> Most definitely. I I think that he
really wanted to kill me. I think that he wanted me dead. >> [music] [music] [music]
>> When I first arrived on the scene, I saw a lot of police cars, saw fire trucks.
There was a lot of activity. It was September 14th, [music] 2016, just before dawn, when John Luna, a
captain with the Grapevine Police Department, responded to a call about a gruesome discovery here at Grapevine
Lake. >> Just off of the worn footpath, you have an area that's pretty well overgrown
with weeds, but you could clearly see a small area that was burned. Just beyond where I'm standing, there was a body
that was obviously charred. It had been set on fire. >> The body found inside a blue kiddie pool
was so badly damaged that police could not determine the most basic facts about the victim.
>> We didn't know if that was an adult [music] or a child, a male or a female. >> The next day, using fingerprints, police
were able to identify the victim. It was Jackie Vandergri, a 24year-old nutrition
major at Texas Women's University in nearby Denton. I chose this major because um I realized the importance of
nutrition and just overall health. We're both named Jacqueline, named after Jacqueline Kennedy.
>> One of Jackie Vandergri's closest friends, Jackie Ton. They met in high school.
>> Ever since then, we were Jackie squared, and I loved it. She made me feel like I
could be myself and just be goofy and funny. Jackie Ton remembers her friend as a
good student who was focused [music] and trusting. >> That girl, smartest girl I've known.
>> She had her whole life ahead of her. She had plans. Me and my detectives, we went
out there for her memorial [snorts] service. [music] And um sorry >> for Captain Luna, the brutality of this
crime hit close to home. [snorts] Could have just as easily been my daughter that this happened to.
>> Jackie spent the last evening of her life in Denton with this man. Police didn't know his identity right away, but
this woman knew him very well. He would always get me flowers. Always. Especially if he had something to be
sorry about. >> Charles Bryant lives some 20 miles away, but he had been making frequent visits
to Denton, trying to rekindle a relationship with his ex-girlfriend, Caitlyn Matthysse, who had recently
moved there to attend the University of North Texas. >> He was just trying to win me back, and I
was just like, nothing is going to work. Caitlyn's involvement with Bryant had [music] begun three months earlier in
June in the town of Grapevine when he came into the restaurant where Caitlyn was working as a server.
>> The day that I met him was the day after I graduated high school. He had lots of muscles um and tattoos
which kind of interested me at the at the time. >> Bryant was then 29 working as a
bartender and personal trainer. You're 18. He's 29. He's got muscles and tattoos and must have made your mother
crazy. >> Yeah, extremely crazy. In a good way, though. Yeah, she cared about me.
>> Being a mother of adult children is a different role. >> You have to let go for them to to fly away and
grow up with you. Caitlyn is the youngest of Karen Hulse's four children. [laughter]
>> She says Caitlyn was hard to miss. >> Fireball. You know, when she's in the house, she never walked anywhere. She
ran everywhere. >> And Caitlyn ran headlong into the relationship with Charles Bryant that
summer of 2016. One of their regular date spots was at the park by Grapevine Lake where this
[music] picture was taken. When Karen learned about the relationship, she asked Caitlyn to show her a picture of
him. >> I got this feeling just deep inside to my bones, an evil feeling. And I said, "He's going to hurt you.
He's going to do something bad." >> Wow. >> And she's like, "Oh, he's nice. He's
good to me. He makes me feel like an adult." >> Were you thinking to yourself, "You're
18. You're too young to know. >> Yes, but I didn't want to insult her. >> Within weeks, Caitlyn was having serious
doubts of her own about Bryant. >> That's when I started to see these warning signs
that he was manipulative. He was a bit of a nar narcissist. He thought very highly of himself. He
would say things like, "Oh, you'll never find anyone better than me." It [music]
was toxic. And he was toxic. In mid August 2016, Caitlyn broke up with Bryant. She thought that was
[music] the last she'd see of him. But the next day, he showed up uninvited at her mother's house.
>> And somehow he convinced me to get back with him. He was trying to say, "Oh, I
can work on this and I can be better and making all these promises." >> But Caitlyn realized she wasn't
interested in promises. That was one of the things that my mom taught me. People
do not change. You You can't change someone. At that point, I was just waiting for the perfect time to end
things. >> A little more than a week later, after Caitlyn moved away to school, she told
Brian it was over again. Later that night, police found him on campus. >> Just by sheer coincidence, I had made a
traffic stop and he was driving that vehicle. Captain Jeremy Pulk was then a lieutenant for the campus police. He
pulled Brian over early in the morning of August 24th. >> I thought he was an intoxicated driver
by the way he was driving and that was my focus. >> So right now I'm have to place you on,
you know, arrest. So you could you can just remain seated. It's all good. >> Bryant was not over the legal limit. He
was charged with a few outstanding traffic tickets and they let him go. Later that same day, he was back on
Caitlyn's campus again. >> He actually knocked on the door of my dorm room. He didn't know prior to where
I lived and he said, "Oh, your name was on the door." >> Did that creep you out?
>> It did. At that point, I was scared. >> Caitlyn got him out of there and called
campus police. Captain Pulk recognized Bryant's name [music] on the report and went along to interview Caitlyn the next
day. She told us things like, "I I just did not like the way Charles spoke to me. I
did not like the way he treated me, and I made that choice then and there. You know, I would do everything I could to
help her with this situation." >> Pulk issued a no trespass order, banning Charles Bryant from the [music] campus.
But once again, Bryant >> would not take no for an answer. The biggest fear I have as a police
officer sometimes is emotion because emotion drives people to do things you would never imagine.
It was my first day there and he walked through the door and my heart just dropped to the bottom of [music] my
stomach. >> It was August 31st, 2016, a week since [music] Charles Bryant had tracked
Caitlyn Matthysse down at her new dorm. Now he was invading her space again. Coming into her new restaurant on her
first day of work, >> I was like, I just want you to leave. >> What did he say to that? He didn't
really say anything. He looked upset. My new co-workers, they were like, "Yeah, he was here yesterday looking for
you." >> Caitlyn asked her manager to keep Bryant out, but her manager said there was
nothing he could do. [music] >> I can't work here. I don't feel safe enough to work here.
>> Caitlyn went back to her old job a half hour's drive [music] away. Her mother
found it all hard to watch from a distance. I said, "Come home." It was my motherly instinct to protect her, and in
order to protect her, I had to have her with me. But Caitlyn thought she'd be safe in her
dorm. A week later, on September [music] 6th, what would have been their 3-month
anniversary, Bryant was back yet again. >> He showed up [music] to to my dorm, knocked on my door, and at this point, I
was shaking. I'm all alone. I uh actually hid in my sweetitemates's closet. >> You hid?
>> Yes. When I was on the phone with the police, they were like, "We can't hear you. You need to speak up." And I was
just afraid that he was going to hear my voice. I did hear him say, "Caitlyn, I know you're in there. Just open up. I
have something for you." And I'm like, "God, what? What do you What do you have for me? I don't want it."
>> Bryant left flowers, sent a two-page letter. When police arrived, he was gone.
>> I heard him say, "Hey, it's Charles. I have something for you." >> You didn't know for sure it was him.
>> Yeah, I know it was him. >> Sier 27, myself and 443 going to be >> police found him outside [music] 10
minutes later. >> You have school here? >> Yeah. >> What's your name? >> Now in running clothes
and arrested him for trespassing. >> You know, you're not supposed to be up. >> Brian posted bond and was released
within hours. Although Caitlyn had already blocked him on her phone, email, and social media, he created a new email
address and wrote to her later that same day. Here I am, heartbroken and with a criminal record for bringing the girl I
love flowers. >> That's when it became really serious for me. If an actual physical arrest doesn't
stop the behavior, then you're, you know, something is wrong. Captain Pulk helped Caitlyn get an
emergency protective order and because Brian had kept trying to reach her after his arrest.
>> How you doing, Charles? You have your ID with you. >> Pul had his officers go to Bryant's
house the next day and charge him yet again. This time for stalking. This was his third arrest in 14 days.
>> I told him if he continued to communicate with Caitlyn, I would use every email. I would use every text
message. I would use every phone call as a reason to have him rearrested. >> Two days later, Bryant posted a $5,000
bond and got out of jail. >> He was telling his roommate that I [music] was the the crazy one in this
relationship. So, all of his friends were kind of coming at me and they were like, "Why?
You need to like drop these charges against him." >> [music] >> By September 13th, Bryant was back in
Denton, just a half mile from Caitlyn's dorm in an area she had told him about back when they were still dating.
>> I was talking about going up to Fry Street and like meeting new people. Bryant went to Fry Street Public House
[music] that night at about 700 p.m. An hour later, Jackie Vandergri walked in, asked about a job, and ended up in a
conversation with [music] the bartender and Charles Bryant. About 45 minutes later, Jackie posted a
message on her Twitter. I'm glad I decided to get off Tinder and walk to a bar. Jackie's friend, Jackie Ton. Jackie was
a very social person. Whenever she went out, she would make friends with everybody. And it wasn't even flirty. It
wasn't anything. You know, she was talking to the bartender, talking to other people.
>> At about 9:00, Jackie [music] left with Bryant and the bartender. She and Bryant
went to another bar nearby and started talking to a group of women. By 9:45 [music] it was raining and
everyone was headed out. Jackie left with Charles Bryant. >> I feel like she felt comfortable enough
with [music] him that night because she had been hanging out with him for so long that she [music] was like, "Hey,
well, whatever. He's just going to drop me off. It's not that far and I'll be good."
>> Once in his [music] car, Bryant stopped at a convenience store. This was the last time Jackie
Vandergriff was seen alive. The day after she [music] was found dead, there was a new post on her
Twitter. Never knew I could feel like this. >> It was just really bizarre. >> Police suspected it was a message from
her killer. They knew they had to move quickly to ID the man Jackie had been with. They had some luck when they
tracked down the women Jackie met that night. One of the friends that was with her had
gotten a business card from this person because he was a fitness instructor. >> Now that Gravine police had Charles
Bryant's name, they learned about that restraining order. >> So, in my eyes, that played into [music]
him as being a good suspect. >> Grapevine police called Captain Pulk, who was in the middle of a road race.
The first thing he told me was Charles Bryant was their main suspect in Jackie's murder. And I immediately just
sat down on a park bench in the middle of the race. It floored me. >> Bryant [music] was emerging as a strong
suspect, but Gravine police did not have physical evidence [music] connecting him to Jackie's death. So for
now, Bryant was free and Pulk was worried about what he might do next. >> I called Caitlyn and I just asked,
"Where are you?" I was like, "Does this have to do with the murder that happened
in Grapevine?" And he's like, "I I I can't tell. I can't specify that to you, Caitlyn,
but are you safe right now." >> And what did you say? >> I said, "I think [music] so."
>> She might have been wrong. In the days after Jackie's murder, Charles Bryant sent Caitlyn several emails, including
this picture, writing on it, "First kiss [music] under this tree. Once upon a time, that photo was taken at Grapevine
Lake. >> He might [music] have taken that picture that same day that Jackie was killed.
It was September [music] 2016 and Caitlyn Matthysse, Charles Bryant's ex-girlfriend, was very [music]
worried he might have been involved in the brutal murder at Grapevine Lake just days before.
>> I was waiting for more news to come out cuz at that point they hadn't even um
arrested him yet. >> Were you worried he was going to come after you? >> I was. I thought that's exactly what he was
going to do. >> The emails and picture Bryant had recently sent Caitlyn were proof that he
was still thinking about her in the days after Jackie was killed. But they were also proof of something else.
>> It was prohibited for Charles to communicate with her in any manner. And if he did, he would have been violating
that order. Captain Poke thought they could use those violations to help the Grapevine police who didn't have enough
to make an arrest yet. >> I told the detective we can get a warrant signed on some evidence we just
got and at least, you know, get him off the street. >> You go by Charles, you go by Dean.
Charles. Okay. >> Charles Bryant was arrested on September 18th for violating Caitlyn's restraining
order. Grapevine detectives were hoping they'd soon find more evidence connecting him to Jackie's death.
>> He's brought to the Gravine Police Department for an interview. And right away, he's beginning to distance himself
from having any almost any interaction with Jackie. >> Recognize who she is? >> Hey, Senator Barb.
>> And at the same time, we began serving a search warrant for his residence. What can you tell me about her?
>> That's about it. I guess >> it had been 4 days since Jackie's [music] body was found. Plenty of time
to dispose of any possible evidence, but Captain Luna at Grapevine PD says they found a lot at Bryant's home, including
a large militarystyle knife. >> You know what? Her purse was found in there, too.
Bryant had no way to answer for any of it, including two more items police found while he was in custody.
Video of him buying a shovel the night Jackie disappeared and a kitty pool missing from his backyard that matched
the one Jackie's body was found in. >> We have video of you with this girl. >> Show me.
>> You're at the bar. You're walking around Walmart at 4:00 in the morning buying a shovel. I can talk
to her. >> She's found dead in a pool that came from your backyard. >> He even got to the point at the end of
his interview with our detective where he said, "Well, I must have done it. I I I don't remember doing anything.
>> Everything points to me. It's like I had to have done it." >> An open and shut [music] case. Not even
close. Although there was overwhelming evidence that Bryant had disposed of Jackie's body, there was no evidence yet
that confirmed how Jackie had died or that Bryant had killed her. >> And that's when they reached out to me
and asked if I could come in and spend some time with him and and interview him and see what I could get
>> because you have a an expertise in dealing with this kind of personality, >> right? This is kind of my calling. Jim
Holland is the senior member of an elite team of Texas Rangers, a select division
of the Texas State Police. He specializes in interviewing some of the country's most prolific killers and
analyzing their thoughts. >> Hey, how you doing today? So good. >> And Charles Bryant seemed to fit the
bill. >> Jackie's body had been dismembered before being set on fire. How do you
begin to understand a mind that would do that? A lot of these people, they actually want to tell you. Uh they want
to tell someone. >> At first, Bryant kept to his claim that he didn't remember a thing.
>> Yeah. It's crazy cuz I really don't remember reading this quote. >> The idea that he doesn't remember doing
it. Oh, no. It's absolute nonsense. >> So, you knew Charles Bryant remembered exactly what had happened?
>> Oh, yes. Absolutely. >> And your job was just to pull that out of him, >> right? You know, you're not a violent
dude. You haven't uh haven't really been in trouble. You >> Holland says his strategy was to try to
make friends with Bryant >> and get him talking. >> You know, you obviously work out. I
mean, you're a stud, right? >> You You don't want him to look at you as a law enforcement officer. You want him
to think of you as a friend, a compadre, a drinking buddy. You know, you kind of
go back to what two boys would talk about in a high school locker room, you know, about the the girl they kissed on
Friday night. You don't have any issues with girls? >> I'm not any just blowing my mind.
>> And Holland suggested possible scenarios to see if Bryant would take it from there.
>> Okay. So So something happens. Bam. There there's a snap and we need to figure out what that is.
And maybe, you know, she got mad. Maybe she's giving you all the signals and and
then cut you off. I mean, there could be all kinds of different things going on here, right? I mean, chicks, right? You
know, chicks, you >> know, as we're going through the interview, there's I'm watching him. I'm
um I guess in a way a human lie detector. I'm um I'm reading him and I'm throwing things at him in which I know
the answer and I'm looking for his responses, whether they're false uh or true. >> Under the pretense of helping Bryant
remember what happened, Holland suggested they do a memory exercise. What we're going to do is these mind
exercises, which means we're going to move back in time. >> Bryant, who first claimed he didn't know
who Jackie was, then seemed to remember her. He said he could see her coming into the bar.
>> She was looking for a job. That's what it was. >> And offering her a ride. Any sense, I
probably would offer to ride home. There's tons of things in this that I can tell you, right?
>> Over a pizza. As Holland tried to steer Bryant to confess, he probed about a possible motive.
>> But what does everyone want to know? >> And and yeah, why? And who's the only
one who can tell us that? You know, >> Holland eventually cut to the chase and asked if what happened with Jackie was
really all about Caitlyn. >> Was there a time that you pictured her as this girlfriend that did you wrong or
did anything like that come into play? The level of nonsense that came out of his mouth at at different points about
that was just astonishing. >> Do you think Charles Bryant looks around the bar and sees Jacqueline
Vandagramriff? Ah, she looks like Caitlyn. >> It wouldn't surprise me if he actually
mistook her at first, you know, that saw her from behind and thought, man, you know, my ex is here. I think in his mind
that whole night, I think that's what he pictured >> after the [music] murder. Right after
the murder, he took Jackie's phone [music] and used it to add me on Facebook. [music]
When Texas Ranger Jim Holland was brought [music] in to interrogate Charles Bryant, the nature of the crime
made him wonder if Bryant's brain was wired like the serial killers he'd encountered. [music]
In what way is the mind of a serial killer different from common criminal? >> You know, generally people like that
tend to be uh sociopathic or or psychopathic mindsets and it's just a different game. Psychopath would be
someone who's basically born with a a scar on their brain. And a sociopathic mindset is um something that society has
brought on. Something happened to them that changed their psyche. >> Something maybe had happened in his
childhood. >> Christy Dixon got [music] a glimpse of Charles Bryant's psyche firsthand. She
met him on a dating app the year before Jackie Vandergri's death. >> He seemed pretty quiet and reserved,
almost like he was shy. By the second or third time that we were hanging out, um,
I noticed he was getting pretty attached pretty quickly and I just was not there.
It was very casual to me. >> After she broke things off, he continued to pursue her. Brian even told her that
he loved her. Christy says they'd never even shared a kiss. >> It was a little too much, too soon, too
fast. I work with abused children and that to me kind of stuck out. >> Christy says that's when she asked Brian
about his childhood. He told her he had been molested, [music] a claim that 48 hours could not independently verify.
>> I remember thinking that makes sense. I'm not a psychologist or anything, but
his behavior sort of came off to me as maybe an abused child or someone who is just needing that extra love that most
people probably aren't seeking. >> Still, Christy thought he was harmless and stayed in touch.
>> I thought he was just a really nice guy and felt sorry for him. >> I'm not an angry guy. I'm not
aggressive. As Ranger Holland continued his interrogation, he wanted to see if Bryant would answer the key question.
How did Jackie Vandergri [music] die? Her autopsy didn't provide many answers. >> There's a lot we didn't know. We didn't
know where it occurred. We didn't know exactly how it broke down. And so that's what my goal was.
>> Holland wondered if the crime had a sexual element, but initially [music] Bryant denied anything sexual took
place. You >> never recall having sex? You don't? >> No. Normally I recall having sex.
>> After three more hours of interrogation, Bryant said [music] they did have sex.
Kinky sex. According to Bryant, Jackie wanted to be choked with an oversized zip tie that just happened to be in his
car. >> She didn't fight you in any way when when you were putting on. >> The consensual sex aspect of it was was
one of those things that that no, I I felt strongly that he was lying about. And Bryant also claimed that neither he
nor Jackie had tightened the zip tie intentionally. >> Okay. So, you think it just tightened up
on its own? Basically, not like had a snag on something or >> Okay. Then what happened?
Trying to remember she's not responsive. Shaker. >> Are you just thinking this is a complete
and total lie? Yeah, it's total fabrication. Did he kill her? Yes, absolutely. When you deal with these
people, it's it's so rare that you would sit down with them and they would just tell you a toz, this is what occurred.
And they're always going to leave out things that make them look really bad. In other words, there's an excuse. I'm
not a bad person. I didn't mean for this to happen. It was an accident. Although
Bryant was evasive about how Jackie died, as Holland led him through the memory exercise, Bryant went into
gruesome detail about how he disposed of her body. >> Karen, what do you see in the pool?
>> Garbage bags. >> All right. Now, tell me exactly what you see occurring after that.
>> Go down the trail and what happens next? it on fire. >> The fire? Why do you burn the body?
Evidence. [music] >> Even if he couldn't admit to murder, Bryant seemed to waver between denial
and acceptance. At one point, conceding that the evidence showed he had to have done it.
>> I can't fight it. It's obviously me. After an intense six-hour interrogation and with mounting evidence, Charles
Bryant was finally charged with Jackie Vandergri's murder, Christy Dixon could not believe the news.
>> That night, I actually was scared to go to sleep. I had nightmares. He had never
threatened me before, but just the fact that someone that I felt that I knew had
murdered someone potentially, I was terrified. For Caitlyn Matthysse, her worst fears
were confirmed. And when she tried to learn more about the woman Bryant killed, she made a shocking discovery on
Facebook. >> I looked up Jackie Vandergri [music] and I realized, "Oh my god, I'm already friends with
her." >> Caitlyn says that digital friendship began after Jackie's death. You got a
friend request from Jackie Vandergri. >> Yes. Caitlyn believes that Facebook friend request could only have come from
one person, Charles Bryant. >> That really sounds diabolical. >> It was. >> Brian pleaded not guilty to Jackie's
murder. His defense was the same story he told Ranger Holland. >> These two young people met. They
consumed a lot of alcohol. Our position is they had sex, kinky sex, albeit. [music] and she died.
>> Brian's courtappointed defense attorney, Glennice McGinty, says Jackie Vandergri's death was a tragic [music]
accident. >> Are you telling me there's no evidence that Charles Bryant killed Jackie
Vandergri? >> Not direct evidence. Prosecutors Lucas Allen and Anna Hernandez believed the evidence they did
have would be enough, but they also knew that most jurors want a motive, >> and they weren't sure they'd be able to
tell this jury why they thought Jackie was targeted. >> You have to wonder what is driving this
person to do something like that. In your minds, there is no doubt that the murder of Jackie Vandergri is connected
to the stalking of Caitlyn Matthysse. >> Yes, I think we believe that definitely.
She might have just been victim number one with Caitlyn being victim number two.
>> To help prove this, the prosecution was hoping the judge would allow Caitlyn to
testify against her ex-boyfriend [music] turned stalker in open court. I felt sick.
Jackie was the most special person. >> I know I'll never meet someone like her again.
In April 2018, a year and a half after Jackie Vandergri's untimely [music] death, Charles Bryant was standing trial
for her murder. Her friend Jackie Tan could not bring [music] herself to be there.
>> I wanted to go, but I'm going to be honest. I couldn't look at him. Charles Bryant
would have to answer for a long list of items the prosecution had collected, including that giant zip tie, the shovel
he purchased the night Jackie died, and that large knife, which police believe [music] he used to cut up her body, all
found at his house. >> This is something that you pray every night does not happen to your child when
they go off to school. Investigators had also found a stun gun in his car with Jackie's DNA on it, but it appears
Jackie was spared at least one horror. Prosecutors Anna Hernandez and Lucas Allen say the medical examiner was able
to run tests on Jackie's remains and found no evidence of sexual assault. >> There was zero evidence to support that
they had any type of sexual encounter. Prosecutors say this undermines Bryant's story that this was kinky sex gone
wrong. >> His attorney, Glennice McGinty. >> How could they have had sex if there's
no evidence? >> No evidence to the degree of no sperm found in her. That doesn't mean they
didn't have some type of consensual sexual uh encounter. >> She likes it making out. Prosecutors
chose not to play that interrogation tape for the jury, >> which meant Bryant would have to take
the stand if he wanted jurors to hear his version of events. He elected not to. Shouldn't he be explaining to the
jury why he's not at fault for her death? >> And then that flies in the face of our
constitutional rights. But the defense knows it has an uphill battle to convince a jury that Brian is not guilty
of murder while admitting he [music] disposed of Jackie's body. If he says it was just an accident, why didn't he call
for help? >> Sure, fair question. Intoxicated, panicked, and his mind would not process
all of that to make a rational decision that you or I would have made. Call the police. But Bryant went further than
simply discarding Jackie's body. Much, much further. And prosecutors wanted the jury to hear their theory.
>> A huge piece of that story was the stalking. >> But before the jury could hear from
Caitlyn, the judge would have to rule on whether or not to allow this evidence. >> How is he his boyfriend? Local TV
cameras were there when without the jury present, >> Caitlyn took the stand and faced her ex.
>> I was disgusted just to see his face. >> Did he look at you? Did you meet eyes?
>> At one point, we had to. When they made me describe to the court what he was wearing and he just had this smirk on
his face. >> There's nothing really that can prepare you for that, is there? >> No. The second I walked out those doors,
I started balling. >> In the end, the judge ruled against Caitlyn being able to tell her story to
the jury. >> It was definitely a real blow to us. >> That was the right decision.
>> Why? >> He had not been convicted of anything with Caitlyn. >> As the jury went out to deliberate, the
defense was hopeful. >> I don't believe that they could prove that he murdered her. I don't think that
they prove that. >> But would the jury agree? They were out for a little over two hours [music] and
even without hearing Caitlyn's story. >> We the jury find the defendant Charles D. Bryant Jr. guilty of the offense of
murder. >> Charles Bryant was found guilty of Jackie Vandergri's murder and dismemberment. To your way of thinking,
was justice done? [music] >> Yes. I knew she was up there and said, "Thank you."
>> Because prosecutors had no evidence Bryant committed another crime at the same time as Jackie's murder, like rape
or kidnapping, he was not eligible for the death penalty. He was sentenced to life.
>> As terrible as this is [music] to say, but I wanted the death penalty. >> Under Texas law, Bryant could be
eligible for parole after 30 years. Caitlyn says she feels like she's still looking over her shoulder and always
will be. >> I fear that when he gets out, he'll come and find me and do something to either
me or someone that I love. That's my biggest fear. >> Ever since this happened, Caitlyn and
her mother have been thinking about Jackie and her family. >> This whole time, I wanted to reach out,
but I didn't know how they felt. Nearly 2 years after Jackie died, they finally met.
>> Her grandmother, bless her heart, she immediately came up to us and to Caitlyn
and hugged her and said, "I've [music] been so worried about you these past 2 years."
>> Wow. Karen, why is this the part that gets you? He took away their little girl
and the the pain I saw in their eyes. I could feel their pain. >> And yet the grandmother was telling
Caitlyn she was worried about Caitlyn. >> Yes. >> You sound like very special people.
>> They are. Caitlyn says she struggled with the fact that she survived and Jackie did not.
This so easily could have been you. [music] >> And some days I wish it was. It's just the guilt that eats me up
sometimes. I would have easily taken her place if I had the chance. >> [music] >> 48 hours. Don't miss an episode.
Heat. [music] [music] [music] Heat. >> [music] >> I don't think the grieving ever ends.
It evolves. We've been wanting to tell Amy's story and just felt like we weren't ready
before, but now we feel like we can do it. I was so proud of her and what she's accomplished.
>> Oh my goodness. Fire eater, [music] dancer, photographer, model, therapist. She wanted to fix people. You might
[music] want to speak to this woman, Dr. Amy Harwick. >> As a licensed marriage and family
therapist, I see all kinds of different things. anxiety, depression, change [music] of life stuff, breakups, moves,
things like that. Amy helped me so much. I had gone to see Amy because [music] I had dealt with a relationship that got
very out of control and turned into a very serious [music] stalking case. >> Jealousy can become dangerous, even lead
to violence. It can lead to death. [music] >> I want emergency 434. >> Yeah. Somebody just attacked my
roommate. Please get a cop here. >> I just was woken up by screaming like blood curdling [music]
scream. And then I realized that the screaming wasn't stopping or slowing down. And I yelled up, you know, Amy.
And I heard choking right after that. I knew we were in trouble. This is for real. This is really happening. I knew
we needed help. Like I'm going to have to make a break for it. When the first responders first got that
call, where did they go? >> They came right here to this house. >> Hey, sir. Hi.
>> How can I help you? >> My roommate was attacked. I know it. I heard I heard it. She's screaming. She
was thrown to the ground. >> Okay, hold on. Okay. >> Michael Herman was out here. He's
frantic. He's nervous. >> They didn't know what to think of this guy. >> Right. Right. They had no idea of who he
was, why he was involved in all this. They knew he was rambling on. They had some doubts about him originally.
>> I think there's >> Okay, sir. Do me a favor. Do me a favor. Calm down. Calm down. Other than your
roommate, is there anybody else inside the house? >> I don't know. I don't know.
>> Thanks. >> And I'm walking them around to the back of the house. And it's dark back there. There's some
light, but it's pretty dark back there. >> And when they get around to the back now, they can see a body on the on the
ground. >> Sir, sir, come here. I remember not knowing what I was seeing, you know,
afterwards realizing it was Amy. >> Really, what hit me was [music] the way that she was killed. So heartbreaking
that her of all people had to be taken in the way that she was. I said, "I know who did it." [music] I
just knew it. I was the only person she was afraid of. It's the only one she was
ever afraid of. >> [music] >> Heat. Hey, Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Take a seat. Take a seat.
>> Oh my god. >> Hey, we we need to we need to have this. >> What happened to you? In the early
morning darkness of February 15th, 2020, police body cameras were recording as Amy Harwick, barely [music] clinging to
life outside of her Hollywood Hills home, was taken to a hospital. >> If she says anything in the hospital,
I want you to know that. >> As EMTs tried to save Amy, officers from the Los Angeles Police Department tried
to make sense of the scene. Amy's roommate, Michael Herman, appeared to be the only witness. He told officers an
intruder had attacked Amy. >> I swear to you, that was a struggle ever. >> But is there any sign of the intruder?
>> There wasn't. There wasn't. [music] >> Scott Masterson was the lead detective.
>> All we knew when we showed up was that a female was found on the ground in the
back of the house. We're wide open to what really went on. even open to the possibility that this wasn't foul play
at all. When officers searched the threestory house, they found Amy's purse, jacket, and broken necklace on
the floor. Not exactly telltale signs of a crime. And a discovery on Amy's balcony made them wonder if this could
have been an [music] accident or even suicide. On the deck of the balcony, we found a mediumsiz syringe and it was
loaded with a yellowish brown substance. >> Yeah, it's heroin. >> When the officers first saw that, they
thought, "What was this? Some kind of drug dealer?" >> Yeah, exactly. Or maybe she was using
drugs and fell over. They They didn't know. >> Sir, do you know her history of drug
use? >> No, she's sober. She doesn't drink it. She didn't even drink. >> She doesn't drink.
>> She doesn't even drink. She's sober. And when I first saw it, I said, "That's not
heroin." >> Not heroin. But he didn't know what it was. >> But what did you think? Wasn't that odd?
>> Very odd. Very strange. >> And very strange to investigators, says Mastersonson, was that Michael had blood
on his shirt. And although he said he was a roommate, he didn't have his keys to the house when first responders
arrived. >> They don't know if he's part of the problem, part of the solution. He may
be. >> So, you know, they're thinking, was he in a fight with her? >> That was not true. Michael Herman is
telling his story publicly for the first time about the events on the night of Valentine's Day 2020 and into the early
hours of the next day. >> The word nightmare isn't even a big enough word, is it?
>> No. No. >> Amy had gone out with friends and Michael was in his downstairs bedroom.
I'd been mostly nodding on and off. I remember what sounded like a plate drop and being woken up by it.
>> Thinking it was Amy's cat, he says he fell back asleep. He later woke up to Amy returning home and that blood
curdling scream. He then heard what sounded like Amy being thrown to the floor and later choked.
>> The sound made you feel that there was someone up with her. I knew I knew for a
fact there was somebody up there after that trying to listen. You don't know for sure what's going on. Was he acting
alone? Was there more than one person? I start rushing to look for my phone. >> But Michael says he couldn't find his
phone. He then started yelling to scare the intruder. >> I remember thinking like this is so much
worse than any horror movie I've ever seen. You're realizing that to save her like you've got to make the decision to
leave her. was such a hard decision. >> Michael fled the house to get help, but when he got to the front gate, it was
locked. He climbed over a fence, cutting himself on spiked rods. Frantically, he
ran to the next door neighbor's house. That neighbor's surveillance camera shows Michael knocking on the door, but
no one answers. >> I just kind of panicked, you know, feeling like a a lot of time had already
passed. He then ran into someone on the street and used their phone to call 911.
>> You guys need to get a a cop here quick. >> Sir, the officers are on the way.
>> After spending hours at the scene, investigators found something in the light of day that they had [music]
missed before. A broken window from a French door on the ground floor with blood nearby. And so as soon as we saw
that, okay, this is our point of entry. We have a crime here. Somebody broke into this house and did this.
>> So this was the first piece of evidence that said to you, Mike Herman might be
telling you the truth. >> Correct. Correct. >> Know that he's not in the house. >> Later at the Hollywood Police Station,
Michael told Masterson about the person he believed was responsible. >> Told them she had an ex-boyfriend that
she had had a restraining order against um that had expired. I don't know his name, but Robert would know his name.
>> Robert is Robert Koshlin, one of Amy's closest friends. We first spoke to Robert in 2020. He told us what he told
police. >> They were like, you know, do you know who might have, you know, could have
done this? And I was like, "Yeah, Gareth." Gareth Pur House, an old boyfriend who
Amy had had a troubled relationship with when they dated almost 10 years earlier.
>> I was like, "You need to go find this guy right away." >> Masterson then broke the news to Robert
and Michael. Amy had died at the hospital. She was 38 years old. How difficult was it to hear that Amy didn't
make it? >> It's still difficult to hear. As investigators worked to find Amy's ex-boyfriend, they also tried to find
Amy's parents, Penny and Tom Harwick, in Pennsylvania. The Harwicks remember getting ready for bed when there was a
knock at the door. It was the local police and he said, "Amy's been murdered." It it's it's a blur right now.
>> I I don't know how to describe it. >> Just devastated. >> Penny and Tom's life with Amy began when
they adopted her as an 11-month-old baby. >> Do you remember the first time you saw
your little girl? >> Oh, I absolutely remember. Kind of like a fairy tale. It's like here's this
beautiful little girl sitting there. she's going to come home with us and and be our daughter. It was wonderful.
>> And believe it or not, she had a headful of curls >> and her hair was honey colored. By the
time she was four, it was so dark. >> Around that same time, the Harwicks adopted their son, [music] Chris.
>> And she was okay with it for a couple of weeks and then she said, "Well, when is
he going back?" And I said, "Well, he's not. He's your brother. He's going to be here forever.
How would you describe your sister? >> Amy was a very interesting uh character. She was into heavy metal and rock music,
going to concerts. >> And Amy got her parents in on the action, too. >> She turned Penny and I into metal heads
or headers. >> Seriously. >> Seriously. >> She would always manage to get either
backstage or to meet the performers. That's just who she was. After high school, Amy met Tommy Decker,
a drummer from LA, at a local concert. The two began dating long distance. [music]
>> And then she said, "I want to move out there. I want to move out to LA." >> In 2001, she headed west. She was 20
years old. >> She needed to find out who she was. She needed to do that for herself.
Soon, the couple tied the knot. But after a three-year marriage, Tommy and Amy divorced.
It wasn't until 2009 that Amy would go on to meet Gareth Purouse, the man police suspected had killed her, and
whom they were now searching for. Heartbreak for a local neighborhood after a well-known therapist was [music]
killed at her Hollywood Hills home. People have left flowers here for Amy Harwick and her friends and family are
hoping for justice. >> I was very confident that, you know, Gareth Pur House was our guy. [music]
Within 13 hours of Amy Harwick's death on February 15th, 2020, police descended on Gareth Purous's beachside
neighborhood to arrest him. >> You could tell he was playing the old What's this about? Why do you want to
talk? Who? Uh oh. Yeah, I know Amy. Sure. Yeah. He basically was saying, I've been at home.
Detectives weren't buying that story or the explanation Pers gave for what appeared to be a fresh black eye. He
blamed a home renovation. >> I said, "I think you better get a contractor. If you get a hold of a power
tool, you're going to be in real trouble." >> Pers was charged with Amy's murder on
February 19th, [music] 2020. and detectives were learning about his troubled past, beginning not long after
he and Amy began dating in 2009. >> They seemed like [music] a pretty fun couple and kind of nice to see, you
know, friends get together. >> When we first spoke to Rudy Torres in 2020, [music] he talked about how the
couple met. Amy, then working as a model and dancer, would often run into Pur House, an events photographer, at flashy
[music] LA parties. If you would meet him, you would think he's charming, little goofy, kind of dorky.
>> He wasn't a musician like she normally dated. >> No. No. And she was trying to break that
habit. [laughter] >> Hurst house was also a computer expert and an aspiring comedian.
>> Here he is one more time for Gareth. Everybody, come on. Bad news for the entertainers over there. The best day of
your career is going to be the days after you die. But oddly says Amy's mother, Penny, her daughter didn't share
much else about him. >> And why do you think that is? >> Well, maybe she was already feeling like
he wasn't who she thought he was. >> And Penny says her daughter never shared how volatile the 2-year relationship had
become. >> She had gone through quite a bit with Gareth. There was there was a number of
police reports that were made. Detectives learned that Amy had called police to report several violent
incidents over the years. She said that on multiple occasions, Gareth Purouse had choked, suffocated, and punched her
with a closed fist. And she even documented her injuries with these photos. But Amy's father, Tom, says Amy didn't
share just how bad things had gotten. >> She didn't go into details. Do you think
she just wanted to protect the two of you? >> I think so. >> Yes. >> After Amy ended the relationship, she
took steps to protect herself, [music] obtaining a restraining order against Pers in 2012. But while she was trying
to distance herself from him, Rudy says Pers could not let her go. >> He always wanted to get a hold of her.
And I used to tell him that he should just leave her alone. And he wouldn't take no for an answer. and then he cut
me off. [music] >> In the years after their breakup, Amy told her parents that her home was
broken into. On one occasion, strangely, the only things taken were personal photos. And on another, her computer was
wiped clean. And did she think it was Gareth? >> She did. >> Oh, yes. >> But no way of proving
>> No way of proving anything. Of course, we were worried, but then we also felt
like, well, she's done with him, it's over, and it was never over. >> And [music] Penny says Amy was thriving,
getting a degree to become a licensed therapist. [music] >> Hi, this is Dr. Amy Harwick, licensed
marriage and family therapist. >> Amy posted therapy videos on her social media.
>> You [music] can seek therapy to address an issue like depression, anxiety, a breakup. You can also seek therapy to be
a better you. >> But even as Amy focused on helping others, she couldn't quite shake the
shadows from her past. She lost a job as a youth counselor, Penny says after a prospective employer was anonymously
sent nude photos of her. Amy believed Pers was behind it. >> She was really upset about it and then
she wasn't sure what she was going to do. Despite that obstacle, Amy studied for a PhD in human sexuality, earning
the title doctor. She took a special interest in marginalized groups, sex workers, and vulnerable women. And she
doesn't stop. She just >> she bounced right back. >> I wrote a book called The New Sex Bible
for Women. >> No, she didn't stop. She would work with these groups of people that she felt
were under reppresented and needed help. >> What was Dr. Harwick's reputation. >> Dr. Amy Harwick had an amazing
reputation. I had a lot of mutual friends that had seen her. Emily Sears, a model who's graced the cover of Maxim
magazine, first started seeing Dr. Amy Harwick in 2017, in part to help her overcome anxiety she
had around dating and intimacy. I felt that she was relatable, but I didn't know just exactly how relatable it was.
>> Even when she opened up to Amy about an abusive ex-boyfriend who had stalked her, Emily says Amy never told her about
her own similar experience. >> And that still is something that I am struggling to process knowing that I was
sitting across from her and she had been through so much that was similar. As Amy
was helping Emily work through her issues around dating, Amy was taking a chance on a new man in her own life.
>> Happy Valentine's Day. >> Drew Carey, comedian and host of The Price is Right on CBS.
>> She was obviously really beautiful. She was really smart. She just wanted to help people, especially women.
>> We spoke to Carrie in 2022. He said it wasn't long after meeting Amy at a party
that he decided she was the one. >> And I said, "If this keeps going the way it's going, I'm going to marry her."
>> And what happened? >> What happened was he ended up taking her to Paris on New Year's Eve and proposing
to her and she accepted. >> Drew and Amy shared the news on his show soon after.
>> I'd like to introduce you to my brand new lovely fiance, Amy. How you doing, Amy? [cheering]
But instead of spending the rest of their lives together, later that year, the couple split up. How did she take
the breakup? She was devastated. I mean, she broke it off. And I think that's because, well, fame was getting in the
way. >> That's because, says Penny. Amy feared that with the added public attention she
was getting while on the arm of a celebrity, she could be putting herself in danger. You know who
was watching and it made her worry. [music] >> [music] [music] >> It hit home a lot after Amy passed in
the way that she did. [music] How dangerous it really is for women. >> Emily Sears, one of Amy Harwick's
[music] therapy clients, was shaken by the news of her death. >> The reality is we're not safe. Nobody is
>> in dealing with some domestic violence cuz this was a bit different because the
way Gareth Pers acted in this case was more methodical. >> When Deputy District Attorney Victor
Avala took on the case, he was particularly troubled by evidence that Pur House had broken into Amy's house,
hoping to catch her off guard when she arrived home. >> And that's at the point that we decided
to charge not only the murder charge, but also the special circumstance of lying and wait. These are the crime
scene notes. Avala along with his co-consel, Deputy District Attorney Katherine Mariano, reviewed surveillance
and body camera video, interviews with Amy's family and friends, and compiled a timeline of the events leading up to the
murder. >> Became very clear to me that his obsession drove his intent to kill her.
They believe that Pur House's obsession with Amy was ignited when he saw her at this award show about a month before her
murder. It was a chance encounter. Pur House working the gig as a photographer. Amy smiling for the cameras enjoying the
limelight. But moments earlier, off camera, witnesses say an angry purse house confronted her. Penny Harwick
recalls Amy telling her she hadn't seen him in almost a decade. [music] >> He called her a [ __ ] and he told her
she ruined his life and she just told me how afraid she was because he was crying
and causing a huge scene and she said, "Mom," I went into therapist mode. I just tried
to calm him. >> After talking [music] to Gareth for almost an hour, Amy left the event very
worried. What's your reaction, [music] Penny, when she was telling you this? That's
when we talked about security and she said she was going to get pepper spray. >> We decided to start sharing location so
I could track where she was. >> Her close friend, Robert Klin, says that sharing her phone's location was one of
the few things Amy felt she could do to feel safe. The restraining order against
Pur House had long expired and because Pur House hadn't expressly threatened her. Robert says she didn't think going
to police would help. Still, he says Amy was very concerned. >> That's when she said, "Look, if
something happens to me, he did it." >> She actually said that. >> Yeah. She literally said that.
>> She's thinking that he can cause me harm. And the very next day, he finds her phone on the internet and starts
texting her. >> Gareth sent Amy a series of texts and later left her a tearfilled voicemail.
>> I have so much I need to say. Please give me a chance to just say it. Please,
please. >> That's when prosecutors say Amy decided to block his number. I believe up until
that point he was trying to manipulate his way back into her life at the point that she made the decision to block him.
That was her choice and she had that right to do that. >> Prosecutors say PCL started to plan to
kill Amy on Valentine's Day. >> Was that just a random date? Absolutely not. I think he wanted to make a
statement by killing her on Valentine's Day. On February 14th, 2020, Amy went out
with a group of friends [music] around 700 p.m. Two hours later, say prosecutors, surveillance cameras from
her nextdoor neighbor's property were activated. >> You get those ring cameras that show a
person that looks just like Gareth Purouse with gloves. When he first comes into view, he covers the camera and when
the camera senses no more motion, it shuts off and then he hops over the fence >> into Amy's yard. Soon after, around 900
p.m., they believe Per House broke through that French door. >> And that's consistent [music] with
Michael Herman. He heard something breaking upstairs early in the evening >> and I think he just got into the house,
cut himself. I don't think he even realized he cut himself. leaving that blood police later found nearby. DNA
testing would confirm it belonged to Pur House. And Detective Mastersonson says where
Pur House went next was revealed by Amy's [music] unmade bed. >> I think he climbed in her bed. He was
there waiting for her for quite a while. >> How creepy is that? >> Crazy creepy.
That's where Mastersonson believes Amy found him 4 hours later when she arrived home a little after 1:00 a.m.
>> She walks into her bedroom and I think she just froze in shock and fear and the
one thing that was on the bed was her phone. So I think she actually threw her phone at him and turned and started to
run out of the bedroom. And she's screaming and they're fighting and they're wrestling.
>> How hard did Amy fight for her life? I think she fought with everything she had.
>> He had something that appeared to look like a bite mark on his bicep. >> And Pels also had that black eye. To us,
it was indicative of Amy fighting for her life, but she was obviously up against a much bigger, stronger
opponent. >> Prosecutors believe Purse House started choking Amy and that's when Michael
Herman yelled. They believe catching Pur House by surprise. And I think that plan
was definitely thwarted by the unbeknownsted presence of Michael Herman there. I just don't believe that he even
knew that somebody was home. In his panic, they believe Pur House dropped that syringe. Police found on the
balcony. It was months before lab tests revealed what it contained. Liquid nicotine.
>> A toxic poison that if injected into someone, it would kill them. >> Why kill her that way? I mean, with that
lethal dose of nicotine, people may not know what killed her. It may not be detected.
[music] >> With his original plan interrupted, prosecutors believe that Pur House
carried Amy, barely [music] conscious after being strangled to the thirdstory balcony.
>> He lifts her right over the rail and then drops her to kill her. >> Gareth Purels is caught on the
neighbor's camera popping back over the fence. With their suspect and theory of the
crime, the prosecutors were ready for trial. But they were surprised by Gareth Purous's [music]
defense, blaming Amy for what happened that night. In August [music] 2023, more than three
years after Amy Harwick's death, her accused killer, Gareth Purouse, [music] went on trial.
>> I almost didn't recognize him. >> Right. In their opening statements, prosecutors
Victor Avala and Katherine Mariano told jurors why and how they believe Pur House ended Amy's life [music] in the
early morning of February 15th, 2020. >> Dr. Amy Harwick was murdered by defendant Eric Hersile because he was
obsessed with her. He strangled her, lifted her up over the balcony, and dropped her to her death.
>> I just pray that Amy was unconscious when she was when she went over the balcony.
>> Tom and Penny sat through every second of the trial, even the most graphic moments.
>> I need to know what happened to my daughter. >> And we wanted to be there for Amy.
>> Yeah. >> Through the whole ordeal. >> But the Harwicks were not alone. Also in
the courtroom, a small army of Amy's friends, including Rudy Torres. >> This is the last thing I could ever do
for her. >> Although fortified by her friends, nothing could prepare the Harwicks to
hear for the first time ever. Gareth Purse House's explanation about what happened the night Amy died.
Defense attorney Evan Franzel claims that running into Amy in January 2020 at that award show had sent Pur House into
quote a deep debilitating depression unquote. And the only way out of it was to talk to Amy [music]
on Valentine's Day 2020. >> His only intention that night was to speak to her. >> What was your reaction to that? bull.
To put it bluntly, they're making up stories because they have no defense. >> And as for that nicotine filled syringe
found at the crime scene, Pur House's defense attorney says it wasn't for Amy. >> He brought it intending to kill himself.
>> Why didn't he? No, he was on a mission to kill her. >> He was wearing gloves when he [music]
went there. He covered up the cameras. What's the purpose in doing all that if you're going to kill yourself there in
front of her? >> In this trial, >> the defense tells the jurors they will hear from an accident reconstructionist
who will show that Amy fell on her own. Defense attorney Franzel then shows the jury two images. A screenshot of the
reconstruction showing an animated figure hanging from the balcony and an undated photo of Amy posing on top of a
balcony railing. >> You'll see that she had a certain comfort level with the balcony railing.
>> Beautiful young lady, wasn't she? >> She looked glorious. >> What was your reaction?
>> Ridiculous. >> I couldn't take it seriously. It was just so far-fetched to me.
She's been strangled. She's [music] debilitated. So for her to then walk, climb over a three-foot rail, do all
that, it doesn't seem reasonable. It seems actually unreasonable. >> The defense's opening concludes with
this damning admission. >> Yes, Gareth Burst House was waiting in her home. He broke into her home. Had he
not been there, she wouldn't have died that night. That is not in this fear. He set a chain of actions into motion that
led to her death, but the evidence will show that he never intended on killing. >> Over the course of 10 days, the
prosecution presented its evidence to prove that Gareth Pers did intend to kill Amy Harwick. Dozens of witnesses
testified for the state, including Detective Mastersonson. now retired, Robert Koslin.
>> Call Michael Herman to stand. >> And of course, Amy's roommate, Michael Herman, the man who heard it all.
Michael described for the jury how after that incident on the red carpet, Amy had
been concerned about those French doors that Pur House would later use to break into her home.
>> Amy had met with a handyman. I remember uh they were over by the the glass doors
and Amy was pointing it out and telling him we need to secure this. >> Prosecutors also play for the jury this
tape [music] jail conversation between Pur House and his friends after his arrest.
>> I guess I'm officially a bad boy now, right? I've always been kind of >> just a couple [music] of weeks after
he's been arrested for murder. He's laughing with his friends. You never hear any moment of concern [music] for
Amy during that call. >> Yeah. So's not great. I'm not getting out of here. >> Why was that important?
>> I think that's one piece of evidence to show a consciousness of guilt. So he knows what's coming because the evidence
shows what he did. It proves what he did. [music] When it was the defense's turn to present its case and call its
expert witness to show how Amy's fall from the balcony was an accident, the defense suddenly rested without calling
a single witness. >> Didn't that hurt the [music] defense? >> I am sure some jurors were wondering
what happened. So, I don't think that helps. >> During closing arguments, defense
attorney Robin Bernstein Lev presented a new theory of what happened that night.
that Amy may have attacked Pur House. >> We don't know who initiated the physical confrontation.
It is just as likely, if not likelier, she preemptively attacked Gareth Bur House in order to subdue him because she
was afraid of him. >> You see that all the time, don't you? A 115B lady picking a fight with a 230
[music] lb 6'4 man. Just preposterous on its face. >> Did that make you mad? Oh, took all my
willpower to stay in that seat to keep my mouth shut. >> During the state's closing arguments,
it's Amy Harwick who has the last word. with prosecutor Mariano reading from an email Amy wrote to herself hours after
her January 2020 encounter with Pur House. >> Tonight, I felt very scared. Derrick
came up behind me and started screaming. >> I'm pretty nervous that I'm more on his
radar now. It terrifies me that he's obsessed with me for 9 years. Thinks about me every day. He's focused on
harming me. That's the closest we've ever had to to a victim testifying in their murder. I
thought it was extremely devastating. >> Jurors had three choices. Murder in the
first degree, murder in the second, or the lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter.
>> When it came time for deliberation, I think we all thought it would be rather
quick. Day one went by, nothing. I started getting a little worried and thinking what could they be
debating about? >> I felt nervous. >> Yeah, >> cuz you never [music] know. As jurors met for a second day to decide
Gareth Paus's fate, the waiting for a verdict began to weigh heavily on the prosecution.
>> It's incredibly nerve-wracking. The weight is the worst part. >> And on Amy Harwick's friends and family,
>> and all you hear is just like a symphony of of anxious bellies just so everybody's nervous. But as court was
about to adjourn, >> we were walking out of the courthouse and Rudy called down and said,
"Everybody get up here. There's a verdict." >> Is it correct that the jury has a
verdict? You can have the verdict formed over to the bail, please. >> We the jury the above entitled action
finding defendant Gareth Pile guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree.
>> Gareth Pile's guilty of firstdegree murder with a special circumstance of lying in weight. What did you feel at
that moment? >> A huge relief. Huge relief. I I just started crying and I couldn't stop.
[laughter] It was like finally after all this time, he's going to be held accountable for what he did.
>> Two months later, Pers was sentenced to life in prison without parole. >> He didn't say a word. [music]
Amy's friend, Robert Koshlin. >> Justice was rendered and that's good, but we shouldn't be here at all. This
should never have happened to begin with. The hole in our lives remains. >> He's impacted so many people with his
actions. So many people. He devastated our family. >> A family that has grown. After the
verdict, Tom gathered Amy's friends, the ones who have stood by them every step of this journey.
>> I said, "Uh, you are not our friends. You're a family. You You really have become our family.
>> Could you have gotten through this without them?" >> No, >> I don't think so.
>> It's a testament to the amazing life and community Amy Harwick created. She was
really happy. She was really happy that she had really gotten her life together.
Man, we were all happy. >> Michael Herman says he still keeps replaying that night.
>> She's gone and I'm still here. He won a second chance. I'm still trying to save
her. >> Michael Herman has a lot of survivors guilt. Oh my goodness. He did the exact
right thing. >> He made all the right decisions. >> Do you feel your sister got justice?
>> I feel I feel she did. >> Amy's brother, Chris. >> We wish that she still could be here to
to continue to help people cuz that's what she was all about. >> We lost a friend, but so many other
people lost a healer. I think of Amy every day because she she helped me so much.
>> Emily Sears says she's struggling without Amy's guidance. >> It's just so hard to feel safe when this
is the reality of what happened to her and what happens to so many people. >> Amy's loved ones are hoping to change
that reality. After her death, a petition was created to rewrite California domestic violence laws,
including a statute [music] preventing restraining orders from expiring. >> And our biggest disappointment was it
lost all its impact when CO shut everything down. >> Prosecutor Katherine Mariano
acknowledges that there are limits to the legal system. >> By the time it gets to our table, we're
in a position to act reactively rather than proactively. But as a society, I think we can always do better. Right.
>> After the trial, Amy's parents headed home to Pennsylvania, the place where they first became a family with their
little girl, and watched her grow into the woman admired and now missed by so many. What's the hardest part?
Just the the absence, the quiet. >> One huge void. One huge void. And I miss our adventures.
>> Adventures remembered when they visit Amy's grave. >> And I couldn't get a brighter orange.
I know orange was your favorite color, but this is the closest I could get. >> We're not the same people we were
before, but we keep trying to be. >> We miss you, Amy. Every day we think of you.
anything you wish you had been able to say to her? >> Just to tell her one more time that I
love her. I know she knew it, but I wanted to be able to say it. >> [music] >> New CBS next. A young teenager is
strangled and buried alive. [music] Absolutely coldblooded. >> 20 years later, her family battles to
keep her killers behind bars. >> We're [music] fighting for her. That's why we're here. She doesn't have a
voice, so we're her voice. >> 48 hours is all new. CBS Next and streaming on Paramount Plus.

48 Hours dives into cases involving stalking. Watch this YouTube mini-marathon, which includes "To Catch a Stalker," "The Murder of Jackie Vandagriff" and "Justice for Amie Harwick."

00:00 To Catch a Stalker 40:44 The Murder of Jackie Vandagriff 01:22:55 Justice for Amie Harwick

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Penny Chang was murdered by her stalker, Scott Strs, raising questions about mental health care and warning signs ignored by her family and professionals.

Key points

The Warning Signs. Experts question whether the doctors could have prevented Penny's death.
Misplaced Trust. The Chang family questions the psychiatric care Scott received before the tragedy.
The Verdict. After two hours, the jury finds in favor of the Cleveland Clinic.
Katherine Deman's Murder. Local TV reporter Katherine Deman is found murdered in her apartment.
Jackie Vandergri Identified. Using fingerprints, police identify the victim as Jackie Vandergri, a 24-year-old student.
Bryant's Arrest and Stalking Charges. Charles Bryant is arrested for violating a restraining order against Caitlyn.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

She's dead.

The devastating truth revealed about Penny's fate.

10:48WatchFeb 21, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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