Perfect Specimen | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

John Giedraitis: So it's about 50 feet tall, so it's not a giant tree according to tree standards,
but down here in the South, it's a pretty good-sized tree. So about 50 feet tall,
100, 120 feet or so in diameter. So it's a very sort of low and spreading tree,
big branches coming out and swooping down, and touching the ground, and going back up
to the sky again. Just a beautiful tree. Phoebe Judge: This is John Giedraitis,
former city forester for the city of Austin. He's describing a famous tree in downtown
Austin known as the Treaty Oak. John Giedraitis: Quercus virginiana, southern live oak. Very, very common all the way from Florida all the way to Texas along
the Gulf Coast. So you'll see them, they're the big trees of the South. That's the live oak,
they're the ones with the Spanish moss hanging off them. Very, very common in the
South. In fact, it's the tree of the South. Phoebe Judge: The live oak is common across
the South, but the Treaty Oak is an unusually good-looking tree. In 1922 the American Forestry
Association named it, "The most perfect specimen of any living tree in the country." Not only was
it perfect, but it was the only surviving live oak in a group of 14 known as the Council
Oaks that were revered by Native Americans long before Texas was Texas. According to legend,
it's also where the so-called "Father of Texas," Stephen Austin, signed a treaty with Native
Americans agreeing to divide the land. John Giedraitis: Texas doesn't have a lot
of history in terms of since the white man came. It's only been a state since the middle of the 1800s. So there are actually
remnants of the original Texas history, and some of them are even alive, like the Treaty Oak. And
now, of course, it's pretty much downtown Austin, big skyscrapers all around it, cars and traffic
and buses and all of that stuff, and there's this little park with this big tree in it. And
my own personal history is I proposed to my wife underneath the tree, because it's a big, strong,
important tree that symbolizes timelessness and endurance and strength and that sort of stuff.
Phoebe Judge: Were there other contenders, or did you always know this was going to be the
spot where you'd get down on one knee? John Giedraitis: If you're in Austin and
you're the city forester, Treaty Oak is the tree. [Phoebe laughs.] There are other historic trees,
there's other bigger trees, but a tree that has its own park is a pretty important tree.
And its role in Texas history, and it's just a wonderful place to do something that you hope is going to last a long time. Phoebe Judge: On March 2nd, 1989, two years after
John proposed to his wife, he was giving a tour, showing some fellow tree people the highlights of
Austin. And he took them to the Treaty Oak. John Giedraitis: We stopped there and we saw
that there was a circle of dead grass around the bottom of the tree, and I thought that was pretty
strange, but we use a common ... edging chemicals in the Parks Department. So we have these kind of
chemicals, I assumed one of our Parks workers had just gotten a little bit sloppy and spilled some
on the ground, or he let his tank sort of drip. Phoebe Judge: John says he didn't think much about
it until a couple months later, when he got a call from a resident who said she thought the
tree looked like it had oak wilt, a common tree disease in Texas. He went down to take a look,
and he knew right away that the tree was sick. But it wasn't oak wilt. He had no idea what
was going on, and he collected soil samples and sent them off to the Department of Agriculture.
John Giedraitis: So when we went out there, we assumed that everything was accidental.
There was some sort of accident that happened to the tree. But once we got the samples back
from the Department of Agriculture, we realize right away that the compound was a ... It's a
compound that is used in forestry operations in pine plantations. They'll fly over the
pine plantations a couple years after they're planted, and they'll kill everything, oaks,
poison ivy, blackberries, everything that's not a pine tree basically gets knocked back. Once we
knew it was that kind of compound, a compound called Velpar made by DuPont, we know it was
no accident. There was absolutely no reason to put this stuff at the bottom of this tree unless you
wanted to kill the tree. There's just no other reason for it to be there. So we knew right away that something was up. Phoebe Judge: Just a few ounces of Velpar could
kill a large tree, and John estimated that at least a gallon had been poured on the Treaty Oak.
He had no doubt that someone, for some reason, wanted the tree dead. And whoever it was had used
more than enough poison to finish the job. I'm Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. [Intense, driving piano music.] John Giedraitis:
I immediately called the DuPont people and they have a facility in La Porte which is
around Houston, on the bay. And I called them up, I said, "What's the deal? What is this stuff
and how do you cure ... How do you get rid of this stuff?" And all that stuff. They said,
"Well, we've really done a lot of research on it, and we know this stuff works really good,
but we've never tried to undo one before." So they offered a $10,000 reward. And that
was quickly followed by the Texas Forestry Association also offered a $1,000 reward. So we had a $11,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the
person or persons that was responsible for this. Phoebe Judge: The Austin Police Department had a
very strange problem on their hands, and no leads. And city forester John Giedraitis, who was only 26
years old, was trying to figure out how in the world he was supposed to save the famous tree.
John Giedraitis: It was a big, huge tree. Think three or four people all with their arms all
together to reach around it, holding hands all the way around it. So we really didn't
think there was much chance. Frankly, the experts didn't think there was much chance, either. This
stuff works really good in pine plantations and on mesquite out in the rangeland and
things like that. So we didn't hold much hope. Phoebe Judge: When word got out to the people of
Austin that the tree had been poisoned on purpose and would likely not survive, they were furious.
But it wasn't just a local story. John was interviewed live by Barbara Walters for a story
called, "Who's Trying to Murder Austin's Treaty Oak?" The Washington Post and New York Times ran
the headlines: "Texas Mourns Imminent Death," and "Poisoned Tree Stirring Fear of Copycat Killer."
Dan Rather: This is the CBS Evening News, Dan Rather reporting. Good evening. With saw or ax,
we routinely kill trees every day of the year. Then why are people in the Texas state capital
so upset over efforts by person or persons unknown to kill just one tree? Scott Pelley explains.
Scott Pelley: An unknown assailant attacked the oak with a herbicide. Since then the tree
has struggled to sprout new leaves. Thousands of people have visited the tree as if it were a sick
friend, their sadness edged with anger. Adult Interviewee: It had to be an idiot
or a maniac who would kill a child, to kill a tree like that. Child Interviewee: I don't
think it's very nice to poison a tree. Scott Pelley: Caretaker Bruce O'Neil seeks Texas justice. Bruce O'Neil: I think he
should swing from one of these limbs. Scott Pelley: The tree doctors hope the oak can hang on until the herbicide breaks down.
It will be a few weeks... [Fades out.] John Giedraitis: When the news of the tree's
poisoning got out and the fact that it wasn't accidental, it was intentional, and rewards
were going out and all that stuff, I got a call in my little house in South Austin from H. Ross
Perot. Of course, he was an industrialist, and billionaire, and a Texas patriot.
So he called me up and said, "You know, no matter what it takes, however long it takes,
you just send me the bill and don't let those bureaucrats get in your way." And I said, "Yes,
sir." And that's what we say in the South when people give you a blank check, "Yes, sir."
We decided to form a little task force, and we had 22 Ph.D.s come in from all over the nation.
And these are the best of the best, they know about live oaks, they knew about the herbicides,
roots, that sort of thing. We got them all together for a couple of days around the tree,
and the plan was to make the tree as comfortable as we could. So reduce the stress on it,
whether it was drought or heat or whatever. And I don't know if you've ever had 22 Ph.D.s in a room,
but generally you get at least 20 or so different opinions about what to do. [Laughs.]
Phoebe Judge: And Ross Perot was paying these guys? John Giedraitis: Yeah, yeah. He paid all the bills. I never even saw them. Receptionist:
Mr. Perot's office. Phoebe Judge: Yes, this is Phoebe Judge. I just spoke with Mr. Perot, and I was hoping to speak with him for
one more moment about the Treaty Oak? Receptionist: OK. He has stepped away. We might have to call you right back, maybe five minutes?
Phoebe Judge: Sure. Receptionist: What's your best number? Phoebe Judge: I'm in the studio right now, and it's hard to call in, but I'm happy to hold,
if that's more convenient. Receptionist: OK. Hold on, please. I'm going to put you on another line, one moment. Phoebe Judge: Yeah, not at all.
Ross Perot: Ross Perot. Phoebe Judge: Hello, Mr. Perot. It's Phoebe Judge again. Thank you so much for speaking with me. Now that I have
you — I'm in a studio — I was just wondering if you could tell me just once again why you cared to
help save the Treaty Oak there in Austin? Ross Perot: Well, it had a great history. And they called me, and they asked me, and I did it. And that's
all I can tell you. Phoebe Judge: Do you remember seeing the tree yourself? Ross Perot: Yes, way back when. Just drove out,
been by it. I knew about it. Phoebe Judge: It's supposed to be a very beautiful tree, isn't it?
Ross Perot: Well, there's not as much there as there was though, right? Phoebe Judge: No, no. You're right. They lost so much of it. But at one time it was just supposed
to be such a beautiful tree. Ross Perot: Yes. Phoebe Judge: So you just thought it was an important thing to do for
Texas? Ross Perot: It has a rich history, yeah. Phoebe Judge: Great, well thank you very much.
Ross Perot: You're welcome. Phoebe Judge: OK. Bye. Ross Perot is 85 now, and we were surprised he took our call. John says that most of
the money that Ross Perot donated was spent testing the soil, $100,000 of soil samples.
John Giedraitis: Because the way this poison works is it's activated by water in the soil,
and what happens is the chemical goes through the roots, up the trunk, out the twigs, and into the
leaves, and there it concentrates. And it blocks a key step in photosynthesis, so the tree leaf can't make any energy. The tree realizes that and sheds the leaf. And as soon as
the leaf is shed there is a bud right behind it, and it puts on a new leaf. The new leaf comes out,
the water is transported up the... [fades out.] Phoebe Judge: Imagine a time lapse video of the
tree growing new leaves, losing them, and then immediately growing new ones, over and over until it can't go on. John Giedraitis: The leaves fill up with
chemical, fall off, until the tree just runs out of energy. It can't make any more leaves,
so that's how the tree is killed. The tree just runs out of gas, literally just runs
out of stored carbohydrates, out of stored energy, and it dies. So we saw this in June,
we saw the first set of leaves, the second set of leaves, and by the fall we were on
our fourth or fifth set of leaves. And all the experts who were familiar with live oaks
and this particular kind of compound, this herbicide, said, "This tree is smoked. It's a
goner. They don't live past this sort of thing." News Reporter: Susan Lampey is doing what parents
have done for generations in Texas: taking her children to see the 500-year-old Treaty
Oak come alive in the spring. Child Interviewee: I think it's amazing that it's lived for so long. News Reporter: But this spring the legendary
landmark near downtown Austin is dying. Only about a third of the tree is producing leaves,
the rest of it is dead. Child Interviewee: I'm not very happy that it might die, but I'm happy that it's living right now. Phoebe Judge:
The residents of Austin were coming by the busload to try to help. John Giedraitis: People would come down to the Treaty Oak and they would leave
cans of chicken soup, they would leave bottles of Maalox, and Tums, and — Phoebe Judge: Really? [Laughs.] John Giedraitis: [Laughing.] ... I'm not sure
exactly what that was for, yeah. We set up a little fence around it, just to keep people
from compacting the soil around it. And people would leave things there. They would leave cards
and letters. Every day or two, I would go there, and I would put them all in a box and take them
over to the History Center, and they still have them all over there. But there would be letters
from ... We got one from Germany, there were letters from all over the United States. They
would just address it to the Treaty Oak, Austin, Texas. And it would be, "Get well soon," that sort
of thing. A lot of them from kids, they would draw pictures and say, "We're sorry that this happened
to you. Get well soon." That sort of thing. Phoebe Judge: A local rock station brought in
a Dallas psychic named Sharon Capehart to perform a healing ceremony. She said that
she sensed the tree was a woman named Alexandria. One man asked if he could bring in some sort of healing pyramids to place inside the water tanker that kept the
tree hydrated. And John said, "As long as they aren't too big, I guess it's OK."
By June, the Austin Police Department had become interested in a man named Paul Stedman Cullen who
worked at a farm supply store and had easy access to Velpar. They learned about Cullen after a woman
named Cindy Blanco came forward and said she'd seen two containers of Velpar in the back of
Cullen's truck. They went to the same methadone clinic and sometimes he would give her a ride.
She also told police that Cullen was infatuated with their methadone counselor,
a woman who was not interested in Cullen. John Giedraitis: She was in love with someone
else. She had her own life and all of that business. So he went to the library,
took out a book on the black arts, and cast a spell under the tree, creating a magic circle.
That circle, of course, was with the herbicide, not with ... I'm sure the book didn't have that
in it [Phoebe laughs], but that was his interpretation. And then put something in
the circle, so that as the tree would die, so would his love die for this woman.
Phoebe Judge: The police needed evidence and asked Cindy Blanco to wear a wire. She agreed,
and when Cullen picked her up, she got him to speak about the poisoned tree. He told her that
if he had to do it all over again he probably wouldn't because, he said, he likes trees.
He was arrested on June 29th, on a felony criminal mischief charge. Because he had
a previous felony conviction for burglary, he was facing a possible life sentence.
Did you go to Cullen's trial? Did you testify? John Giedraitis: Well, I was in the trial. They
had me on the stand as an expert witness on the value of the tree. And when you're called
to witness, you can't sit in the trial and watch, because I really wanted to sit in there and watch
it. I wanted to see why did this guy do this, what's this all about, and how do you get justice
for a crime like this? But they wouldn't let me sit in there. They said, "No, you're a witness,
you can't hear anything. You can't sit in here." Phoebe Judge: You just showed your true colors,
because you said, "How do you get justice for something like this?" Which is really
something a tree guy would say, because a non-tree person would say, "Well, I guess maybe you'd give him a fine and maybe put him in jail." But you're a real tree guy, "How
do you get justice for something like this?" John Giedraitis: Well, it's a little different
down here than it is in other areas of the country. What it is down here is if somebody ... You can shoot somebody dead in the street, OK? I mean, literally, it's the
Wild West. If you go out there and you have a gunfight, and you shoot him dead in the street,
well, that's OK. You're having a gunfight. But if you steal somebody's horse, what happens?
They hang you. So property crimes are very, very serious in Texas law, going back all the way to
the beginning of Texas. Bob Perkins: There were people in Austin that said, "This is not worth
it. This is just a tree." Phoebe Judge: Bob Perkins was the judge for Paul Cullen's trial. Bob Perkins: You know, "We have people
getting killed and stuff, that's the kind of thing we ought to be spending time on in the courts. We
shouldn't be worried about someone killing a tree." But this is the thing, the deal is,
if we were not going to protect that tree, then you could just declare open season on
all trees, because you wouldn't defend any. Phoebe Judge: The prosecution argued that Cullen
had poisoned the tree in a ritual to try to kill his love for the methadone counselor, like Cindy
Blanco said. But also, to try to get back at the state of Texas for putting him in prison before.
Defense attorneys argued that Cullen had, "low self-esteem and that everything that he told
Cindy Blanco was a lie. He was just bragging to try to impress her." Bob Perkins: First of all, it's not likely that a woman's going to be impressed by a guy
that poisons a good-looking tree. That's not very logical. But the second thing is if you
did poison it, you'd pretty much try to remain anonymous anyway, so how are you going to get
credit for something if you do it anonymously? So there's a lot of problems with that theory.
In my mind, he was getting back for the time that he had to do in the penitentiary before.
That's what I always believed. Phoebe Judge: I'm sure the answer to this is ... I'm sure this will not elicit a response from you,
but as a judge, you have to kind of be impartial and sit up there, but it seems like this is the type of case where you might just want to look at this guy and say,
"You know what? You're an idiot." Bob Perkins: [Laughs.] Yeah. Well, I think, according to my theory, he's not so much idiotic. He was actually very ... He actually
did exact a big amount of revenge against the state of Texas by doing what he did,
but it was a very strange case and a very unique case. I mean, this concept about somebody killing
a tree and then getting prosecuted for it is just not, I mean ... that just doesn't happen
at all. I mean, you never hear about that. Phoebe Judge: Cullen was found guilty of second
degree criminal mischief and sentenced to nine years in prison and a thousand-dollar fine.
Right after the conviction, he told reporters that when he got out, he'd open a nightclub and call it the Velpar Spot. As for the Treaty Oak, a third of it was
dead. After many months of work, a lot of Ross Perot's money, plus the Maalox and chicken soup,
John and his team decided to try a hail Mary. John Giedraitis: We said, "Well, if the tree is
using up its energy, what would happen if we just put more energy into the tree?" So we did that. We
injected the tree with a giant IV full of sugar. I mean, it wasn't research, we don't know if it
worked or not, so it didn't hurt it, we hope. Phoebe Judge: They also started collecting
hundreds of cuttings from the tree's twigs and roots, and sending them all across Texas with the
hope that someone could make one of them sprout into what would become a new tree.
And one of the cuttings took. It started growing like wild, and John saw an opportunity.
John Giedraitis: When the tree roots from live oaks grow together after a couple of years,
they actually fuse together and become a single root system. So we put that tree next to it,
to act as a nurse tree, literally a nurse tree. So as it would grow good and healthy,
it was in good, clean, fresh soil, it would graft to the old, to the mother tree,
and that's what actually happened. It's grafted together and it's supplied nutrients to the tree,
so the mother tree looks great, and the baby tree looks great. So they're both surviving,
they're both are doing great, and I'd say we got another couple hundred years out of them.
Phoebe Judge: Paul Cullen only served three years of his sentence. He died in California in 2001. He was 57.
So in the long life of the 500-year-old tree, Paul Cullen was actually just a dot. [Upbeat, optimistic piano music.]
Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer and me. Audio mix by Rob Byers. Julienne Alexander
makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
Special thanks to Alice Wilder and Chelsea Korynta, and also to Colby Ricks. Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We are a proud member
of Radiotopia from PRX. And as we begin 2016, we want to say thank you to everyone who donated to
the Radiotopia fall campaign, especially designer and illustrator Jez Burrows whose most recent
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supported by the Knight Foundation and Mailchimp, celebrating creativity, chaos, and teamwork.
I'm Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. Jingle: Radiotopia. From PRX.

The Treaty Oak in Austin, Texas was known as “the most perfect specimen of a North American tree”. Until one day in 1989, Austin city forester, John Giedraitis, decided that the 500-year old tree looked sick and started to suspect that someone was trying to kill. The Austin police ended up arresting Paul Steadman Cullen. On this episode of the Criminal Podcast, we unearth Cullen's motives for killing the Treaty Oak.

Music in this episode: “Decompression” by Blue Dot Sessions “Betrayal, Lies and Disaster” by The Losers “Bliste” by Blue Dot Sessions “4th Chair” by Blue Dot Sessions “Flag of No Country” by Julia Kent “Pretty Melody” by Podington Bear “Sometimes it Shines” by Pictures of the Floating World

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode transcripts are posted on our website https://thisiscriminal.com/.

Episode 36 originally published 2/5/2016 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-36-perfect-specimen

Brief Summary

The Treaty Oak in Austin was poisoned, sparking outrage and a recovery effort led by experts and Ross Perot.

Key points

The Treaty Oak's Legacy. The Treaty Oak is revered as a historical landmark and a symbol of endurance in Texas.
A Poisoning Incident. The Treaty Oak was intentionally poisoned, sparking outrage in the community.
The Arrest of Paul Cullen. Paul Cullen was arrested for poisoning the Treaty Oak, facing serious charges.
A Unique Trial. The trial of Paul Cullen raised questions about the value of trees in the legal system.
The Tree's Recovery. After extensive efforts, the Treaty Oak began to recover with the help of a nurse tree.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's a big, strong, important tree that symbolizes timelessness and endurance.

John Giedraitis describing the Treaty Oak.

2:04WatchNov 12, 2022

Tension

70/ 100High tension

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