Park Bench Murders ////// 856 | Forensic Files

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[Music] Hey, Heat. [Music] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
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[Music] Wednesday, June 4th, 2025 came and went just like most Wednesdays for me and likely all of
you listening in as well. That was 6 weeks ago. And for most of us, it was just another day, just another cog in
the middle of another mundane work week. For me, I can look back at the calendar
and fill in some of the blanks of what I was doing on that Wednesday. On that day, a man named Grant Harden, a
one-time police chief and convicted murderer who had escaped from prison on May 27th, was still on the lamb.
I no doubt was busy learning about the prison he escaped from and the crimes he committed that landed him there. I very
likely ran an errand or two, completed a house chore, had a nice dinner, and if I
was lucky, I did a little reading before bed. That was very likely my day, and yours probably shared some similarities.
But up in northeastern Ohio, just about 99 mi up 71 North from my place, there were two families grieving the loss of
their dear loved ones. Katherine Brown was 33 years old. She was a daughter and a sister. She was loved, is loved, and
missed dearly. Carnell Sledge was 40 years old. He was a son and a brother. He was loved, is loved, and he too is
missed dearly. Sadly, June 4th, 2025 marked 6 years since the two friends were murdered. They were talking in a
park on a beautiful sunny afternoon when someone very evil chose to take these two lovely people out of this world and
away from their family and friends. So, on that day, Catherine and Carnell's families and friends know exactly what
they were doing. They were hurting. Their hearts were very heavy, filled with love, fondness, sorrow, and anger.
The Brown and Sledge families have been hurting and grieving for 6 years. They have been reminding those that will
listen and pay attention that their loved ones were taken away, murdered. They have been asking the public and the
police for help. Because while they will always miss Catherine and Carnell, and while they
will always be grieving this very difficult loss, they are also hoping to start healing someday.
But the healing process most likely can only start for them after we get justice
for Catherine and Carnell. Their killer is still out there. The victim's families are out there to
remind you of that and we are too. This is the still unsolved double homicide case of Katherine Brown and Carell
Sledge. And this is True Crime Garage. [Music] The Cleveland Park bench murders. The
Rocky River double murders, the Cleveland Metrop Park murders, all refer to one single case. No matter what you
want to title it, these are names given to the unsolved double homicide of Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown who were
shot and killed while sitting on a park bench in the Cleveland Metro Parks Rocky
River Reservation. This took place on June 4th, 2019. Going forward, I think it's most
appropriate to title this the parkbenched murders. Now, if this is sounding familiar to you, well, then you
would be exactly right, as we like to say. That is because we covered this case in episodes 660 back in April of
2023 and then again earlier this year in episodes 820 and 821 where we were able
to do much more of a deep and more thorough examination of the circumstances of this mystery as more
information had come out. But sadly, the case drags on with no justice for these
two folks who just seem like some really good people. Cornell Sledge and Kate Brown were very familyoriented
individuals who loved and enjoyed their families and their community. In our most recent episodes, we were able to
push forward a very good suspect. So, if you have not heard those episodes, cue them up on your garage listening device,
but you can finish this up first if you wish as they work handinand here. So, stick with us here because we have a big
batch of new information. Two other cases and items to be discussed. Are these other murder cases connected to
the double unsolved homicide case, the Parkbench murders? Well, that is what people here locally are asking and what
we will examine here today. Now, the internet captain, this might be the garage beer talking here, but remember
that really great kid show, Fraggle Rock. >> Do I remember? It's one of the best
freaking theme songs of all time, man. >> There was a character called the Trash
Heap, and the Trash Heap knows all and sees all. The Fraggles would travel to the trash heap to ask it questions,
seeking knowledge and wisdom. That's the internet. Speaking of giving things titles, let's rename the internet the
trash heap. In some ways, it certainly feels right. The internet tells me that the case has gained renewed attention
due to its inclusion in the Netflix series Unsolved Mysteries. I'd say that is somewhat true. However, I think a
more accurate statement is that the case has received national attention because
of Netflix Unsolved Mysteries. And that was a great episode, by the way. Go watch it. Here locally, especially if we
go up to Northeast Ohio and the greater Cleveland area, this case has never really strayed very far from the media
at all. It's received a good amount of coverage. And of course, we've covered it here on our podcast. Bill Huffman,
friend of our show, who host Who Killed, covered it on his show as well. And some
other podcasts have hit this case over the time. Now, sadly, it's been just over 6 years. The 6-year anniversary was
in June, less than 6 weeks ago, and these poor families are still left without justice for their loved ones. A
little recap of the case summary for persons who are new to this case and listening in today. Thank you for
listening, by the way. June 4th, 2019 in the Rocky River Reservation. This is near the Lraine Road Bridge. We have
victims here were longtime friends. Carnell Sledge, he was just 40 years old, and Catherine Kate Brown, who was
33. The two were meeting at the park. It is believed that they had likely done so
before as the park and specifically this location of the park was close to where
Kate lived and she was known to frequent the park. This was an impromptu meeting
though. In fact, Carnell had somewhere else that he needed to be that day that was a scheduled event. It was a dinner
with family at grandma's house. So, this meeting with his friend Kate, longtime friend Kate, would cause him to be late
for that meeting. But Kate was a dear friend, and Cardell was known for helping people and being a very loyal
dude. And wasn't she seen crying while talking on the phone earlier that day? >> Her movements are fairly well
documented. The one part that is intriguing to me is there seems to be a little window of time or two during the
portion of that day where she is not accounted for or we we don't know what she was up to at that time. Could simply
have just been at home. But yeah, it see something was up with Kate that day. And
that is what her family and Carnell's family have always said from the beginning that they think that this
impromptu meeting was brought up by could have been either party. But it seems to be that the general consensus
here leaned toward that Carnell was probably there to help Kate with something or talk through
something with Kate that day. It was only because of interaction between the two of them that they came up with, hey,
let's meet over here at the last minute. The other thing too with this last minute meeting here, Captain, that I
think it's easy to come to this this speculation here or conclusion in the speculation is that I think this meeting
was supposed to be a rather quick meeting, rather short, because as said, Cornell had somewhere else to go and he
wasn't going to let his family down. He wasn't going to be a no-show. And we talked about this when we covered it
last time. He didn't call or text anybody in his family to even let them know that he would be late. To me, this
dude's rather responsible. I think to me that shows and he's considerate as well.
That shows that he didn't plan to be there very long. >> Yeah. If you don't have a buddy that you
can vent to about life, get you one. And that's what these buddies were. They were like vent buddies. So, hey,
something's going on. Can you meet me real quick? Let me get this off my chest. That's what it seems like to me.
And like you said, because of his actions and or lack of actions, one could assume that this meeting was going
to was going to be a pretty quick meeting. I agree 100% with that. So, shortly after arriving at the park,
Carell Sledge and Kate Brown were shot and killed. Carnell was shot in the head. The murder scene suggests this
happened while he was sitting on a park bench. And this park bench is fairly close to the pulloff small gravel
parking lot located near that Lraine Road bridge. He very likely never saw the attacker or attackers. Kate was shot
and killed as well. She may have been sitting on the park bench as well when the attack first occurred. However, the
crime scene suggests that she likely had enough time to stand up or even possibly
try to flee, but was then gunned down. It is uncertain if she ever saw the attacker or attackers. And the murder
weapon, a small caliber gun, was not found at the scene and to this day has not been recovered. It was initially
thought by police when they're arriving on the scene that this could have been some kind of murder suicide. I've heard
the audio from the body camera footage or the audio from the the call, but when the officers are on the scene, you can
hear clearly one of the officers saying to the other one after sounds like they're out of breath, like they've been
they've been working the scene vigilantly, >> right? They can't seem to locate the gun
and and they don't locate the gun and and the officer is telling the other officer, "We couldn't find any there's
no weapon there." And he almost sounds like out of breath, but also like confused. Like this is I think a part of
the reason why it may not be solved, you know? And look, we're all fallible. And
so they show up on the scene, they think they're arriving to one type of crime or
one type of situation, and it turns out that it's not that kind of situation. You can hear almost the confusion or the
surprise in the officer's voice. Yeah. But it's also more complicated because this is a crime that takes place in a
park in broad daylight. There's a lot of land that somebody could dispose of a weapon on the land, but there's also
water right by. Be hard enough to find a gun in a field, let alone in in water. The Cleveland Metrop Parks Police
Department has been leading this investigation. Recently, we've learned that, and we covered this earlier this
year with the assistance from the FBI. Now, what we learned more recently is that there is also additional outside
assistance. This is according to the current police chief for the metrop parks where they're saying that they've also
communicated and had interaction and involvement by the US Marshall Service and Ohio BCI. Of course, we would expect
Ohio BCI to be involved. The US Marshall Service apparently involved as well. So
kudos to the Metro Parks for getting other agencies involved in this investigation, which clearly seems to be
a complicated investigation as the time drags on and it's now 6 years. We've not
seen an arrest. But like you said, law enforcement shows up and initially they're like, "Is this a murder
suicide?" Okay, we can't find the weapon, so that doesn't make much sense. Okay. Well, they're at a park. They're
in a public location, so maybe it's a theft. And then nothing stolen. Phones, cars, jewelry, valuables, they all
remain with the victims. So then you go, well, this doesn't seem like it was a a
robbery. Exactly. And it's important to note here that both Kate and Carnell drove separately to this location.
Carnell was coming from work and Kate, it appears, was coming from her apartment complex, which was not
terribly far from this area of the park. And they arrived separately in their respective vehicles. And like the
captain said, their valuables that they would have had on their person or in their vehicles, all those valuables were
located at the scene, either on their person or in their vehicles. After the airing of the Unsolved Mysteries
episode, as said, this brought the case to a wider audience, but also generated tips, new tips, which obviously is
great. The two families, Carnell's and Kates, were begging the public for tips, information, and help. Even posting
signs and setting up at the park, asking folks in the park and driving by for anything at all, any information at all
that they may have had. They had signs saying, "Were you here on this date at this time?" or "Were you driving by on
this date at this time?" They were seeking information. As we say, the metrop park, while beautiful and
harmonious, the folks in charge maybe not so much as they ordered the removal of all and any signs posted and set up
by the families. So, the families both very smart. They have leaned on the media and the local media. This is
getting a good amount of coverage as we've already said. Regardless, it has now been six years and the case remains
unsolved. Family members in the community have been working to keep the case in the public eye, including
organizing events and spreading awareness. The FBI is offering a $25,000 reward for information leading to an
arrest and conviction with additional reward money possibly available as well. >> Yeah, I think possibly the reward goes
up to 100,000. >> That's correct. I believe a big chunk of that reward offering is coming from the
families or money raised by one of the families. Right. As said, these families have really been very visible and
incredibly vocal about this case and getting justice for their loved ones. Just a quick background because we did
we did go a little more in depth with this in our previous coverage, but Carnell was an AVT tech at Crescent
Digital in Strongsville, Ohio. So, very nearby. and he also volunteered as a youth consultant for Applewood Centers.
He was known for volunteering there, coaching youth sports and much more. He was he was referred to as Coach Sledge
and the kids from my understanding still call him that and very miss they miss him dearly. He's described as a big
teddy bear of a man, friends and loved ones. Many called him Nell. And Katherine affectionately was called Kate
by just about everyone that we could find in our research. She worked at the KCG Goods in Brook Park, Ohio. So also
nearby as well. Nell and Kate were killed, shot, and murdered in the greater Cleveland, Ohio area at the
Rocky River Reservation. The Rocky River Reservation is a 2500 acre preserve along the Rocky River. It's very
expansive and beautiful. Looking at Cleveland on a map, you will see this large green line. That is what they call
the Cleveland Metro Parks Emerald Necklace Trail. The Emerald Necklace connects Scenic Park at the north end of
the Rocky River Reservation. Goes south through Milstream Run Reservation and then east to Rexville Reservation and
the Tow Path Trail. A lot of bicyclists and pedestrians you would expect to see in this area, especially at the time of
this murder. As we said, this is late afternoon, early evening. So, this would have been in broad daylight. The trail
is part of the Metro Parks extensive trail network of over 325 miles of trails across 18 park
reservations spanning nearly 25,000 acres. So that's a big huge beautiful park that has these different parks
inside right with these different reservations as they are called and again given all that trail work that is
there you would expect to see hikers bicyclists and yet on this day when these two good people were killed there
is apparently no eyewitnesses and remember there there was a gun used in this homicide in this double homicide
and there's No ear witnesses either, which is incredibly difficult to believe. Something the family has had a
hard time even trying to conceive. The idea that nobody saw anything, nobody heard anything, even with cars going
over that bridge and traveling nearby, even persons not in in the park per se. But one of the people we brought up
obviously was somebody that was parked in that pulloff gravel parking lot which is in view of the park bench where
Carell was sitting when he was when he was shot and killed. Well, there's so many things that make this case
fascinating. One, it takes place in a public location, so we should have some eyewitnesses or some ear witnesses. It
also happens during the day. What law enforcement is able to figure out based on cell phone data and other determining
factors is that both of these victims arrive just after 5:00 p.m. and the bodies are discovered around 518. So
that gives us roughly a 14minute time period. And that that's really fascinating. It's it's hard in a lot of
cases to shorten that time frame or or to get that timeline down to just 14 minutes. And some of the things that law
enforcement kind of speculate because there's no eyewitness, there are no ear witnesses, did this suspect, did they
have uh extensive knowledge of the park, the entrances, the exits of the park, and also just the daily traffic through
those areas. And then the other speculation that has been made not just by law enforcement but many armchair
detectives on the interwebs is >> there a silencer used? Yeah. >> Many armchair detectives on the trash
heap speculate maybe that there was a silencer used. >> You get an extra garage beer lime here
today because you are spot on there, my friend. That that's that's got to be the
speculation, right? that you would be a [ __ ] to not have that cross your mind that there's a possibility that a
suppressor was used. And we've we don't have we're not going to pretend we're just a couple garage guys here. We're
not going to pretend to have extensive knowledge on firearms, but we have covered other cases where we do know and
have 100% proof and know that it's fact that a suppressor or silencer was used. And so we've gone through the research
of what does it take to legally obtain a suppressor and that it's a rigorous process and it's an involved process.
It's it can be expensive and your name is forever tied to the serial number on that suppressor. And we talked about
this before. So it's it's a they call it a stamp to that you receive a stamp. you
apply for a stamp to be approved to purchase one. And then the way that they would try to police this or keep tabs on
things is meaning like if somebody from the ATF knocks on my door right now and I have a a a stamp allowing me to buy a
suppressor, they can knock on my door 24/7 for no rhyme or reason and say, "We need you to produce that silencer right
now." showing that I didn't apply for the stamp, purchase the silencer, and then just give it to the captain as a
birthday gift, and he's running around pointing it at people. >> Well, let me point something out that is
I think is obvious. If I tell you, "Hey, Colonel, sit down for a second. I'm going to play you a sound. You tell me
what this sounds like." And I played you something that sounds like a a a gunshot, you would go, "That's a
gunshot." But when you're in an apartment across the street or you're on a bike ride maybe with some some
earphones in listening uh to your favorite band like Creed or >> no? How about no?
>> Uh when you're just blasting Creed trying to get your miles in and and then you hear something in the distance or
again on top of other noises you're hearing. I think there could be some ear witnesses that just don't know what they
heard that day. >> That Well, that's a great question and I think that's interesting to ponder, but
with all of the media coverage that it's received and the the people looking for
information here, I would hope that that request hit the earballs of those people
and they would at least come forward and say, "Look, I heard something. I was uncertain of what I heard at the time."
>> Yeah. >> This is what I remember. Maybe I remember seeing a a blue truck. Even if
you think it's a something of of no significance at all. Let let the police sort that part of it out. I feel what
you're saying because, you know, I used to live in this not so great neighborhood for many, many years and we
we would regularly get cars, you know, old junk cars just kind of backfiring, right? And you would you would think
partly because of the area, my mind jumped to like, oh, that must have been a gunshot. And it was usually just the a
car backfiring. And now I live in a much more fun neighborhood where there's and
especially given the calendar this time of year you get a lot of fireworks and it might just be a single one. Um heck
in my neighborhood they will light off fireworks for it doesn't take the 4th of July. Halloween it's surprising they
fire off so many fireworks on Halloween. I it makes very little sense to me but I
but I do enjoy it. So within that Rocky River Reservation, right inside that beautiful park, this is located at the
city of Fairview Park in Kyhoga County, Ohio. As said, Nell and Kate met there late afternoon, early evening. Someone
snuck up on them and fired three shots. Boom, boom, boom. Hitting all three and left them there to die.
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[Music] All right, we are back. Cheers mates. Tall can hands in the air. Cheers to
you, Colonel. >> Tall can hands very high in the air. And cheers to all the people up front. And
cheers double cheers to the people in the back. Now, we gave that description of the Cleveland Metro Parks, which is a
for a lack of a better definition, it's a conglomerate of all these smaller parks that make up this big, huge,
beautiful area. Now, we want to really echo names of two of the locations within the very large metro parks in
from that description. One, the Rocky River Reservation, which you've heard that name multiple times already in this
podcast, and two, the Millream Run Reservation. These more precise locations are paramount to this week's
true crime story. Because more recently since the Parkbench murders, a murder took place in the Millere Run
reservation and then a homicide took place very recently that has a direct connection to the Rocky River
Reservation portion of the metrop parks. The first case that we need to discuss here, Captain, is the body of Leroy
Johnston was located deep in a wooded area of the Milstream Run reservation on September 30th, 2023.
Now, I got to walk something back here a little bit. I heavily criticized the Metro Parks for what I thought was their
bungling of of the Parkbench murders investigation. And I have to walk it back a little bit, but I'm not walking
it back all the way because I still stand by that. I think there were things that were there were missteps, which
again, we're all human. I make mistakes every week, right? Every week of my life, I've made a mistake. I guarantee
it. But I also think that there's things that they've not corrected. And I also I
I think that there is a weird like posturing that they're doing that it's like we're doing everything we can and
we're very capable and and I question both of those both of that posturing. But anyway,
>> you shouldn't apologize until they actually solve the case. >> Well, I I I'm giving a partial apology
here because I said that I don't think that they were equipped to solve a homicide and they did solve a homicide.
So either they got the comeuppins that they needed or they or I was wrong. They were
able to sort this out fairly quickly. It took a while to make an arrest, but there was an arrest of a Victor Vdler.
His last name is spelled V E N D L E R. He was arrested in May of 2024. Remember, the body was found in
September of 2023 when he is arrested and charged with the murder of this Leroy Johnson. He
initially plead innocent back in 2023. But then just last month, he changed that to plea guilty. This was just two
weeks ago on June 30th, 2025 that he was sentenced to life in prison. >> Right. The reason why this one is looked
at and was looked at by at least the public as a possible connection to the still unsolved park bench murders is the
victim is found in another location of this metrop parks found as said in a deep deep in a wooded area. The body was
discovered by two mushroom hunters whose their dog went rogue on him and took off. And when they find their dog, the
dog is what stumbled upon the body, if you will. And this poor guy, Leroy, he was 77 years old, an elderly man. And
what they were able to determine here, Captain, is that Leroy was killed in the park. he was killed, where his body was
found. The early reports that were coming out shortly after the arrest of this victor was that the two knew each
other. Now, they didn't give any background on that at the time. what we would then learn when he changes his
plea to guilty. And I don't think this is anything that they learned from Victor. I think this is information they
already knew within their investigation, information that they had sused out themselves. But the details of it and
best that we get is that in fact actually the two of them were in a relationship and Victor is much much
younger than the victim Leroy. I believe Victor was only 22 years old at the time
of the homicide. So, they're in some kind of rel and when we say relationship, it it seems like it was a
romantic relationship because the judge that had to hand down the sentencing on June 30th of this year said one of the
worst parts, one of the worst details of the case that he had learned about was that this Victor individual was able to
murder somebody that he that loved him and that he once loved. And the details of the case are this. We
knew initially after the arrest that police were saying that Victor lured Leroy to the park that day then killed
him. So not on the day that he was found. It was about 6 days later that the body was found. But I'm guessing
they probably found this is this is the Batman utility belt tool that is that is
helping law enforcement as said cell phones. I'm I'm guessing that there was cell phone communication between victim
and perpetrator where they have communication saying, "Hey, meet me at the park." And of course, we know 6 days
later they find the victim's body there. And what they sorted out is that they went for a hike. So I'm guessing the
plan was meet me here. we're going to go for a hike. And at some point, Victor pulls a gun on Leroy, walks him deep
into the woods, kills him, leaves him there, and then police are left to to sort it out after the body is then found
6 days later. This was looked at for obvious reasons. The Metro Parks is involved. It's a gun crime. One thing
that I find to be intriguing as far as does Victor make a good suspect? he would be awfully young. And it appears
that there was a direct firm relationship between the victim and the perpetrator here. I think that it had
that been the case, which I don't think, you know, that's been the debate all along with the park bench murders. Was
this a random thing? Were they targeted? I really think that they were they were
very likely targeted. And if that's the case, then one of them had some kind of relationship. One of them knew the
killer. And it doesn't seem like they've drawn any line between Victor to either of our victims here in the
park bench. >> Well, one, he killed somebody in the park, but two, he does live close to
their murder scene. >> Yes, he does. And now he's been sent away for life in prison.
>> But do we know what kind of gun was used? Because we know what kind of gun was
used in the park bench murder. That's correct. Um, no, we don't know what kind of gun was used uh for the Leroy Johnson
homicide. I don't believe that has been reported. There's been very little reporting on that case. And I think in
large part that's because police and then later the prosecutor had a whole bunch of information that they figured
out in their investigation. And that's why I think ultimately he changed his plea from innocent to guilty. I think he
realized I look I don't stand a chance once I get the court here. And I don't think that because it appears to be a
open andsh shut case that a lot of the details of it didn't make their way to the media and then to the public. But
they they do have the indictments are on the Cleveland prosecutor's website. the
Kyhoga County Prosecutor's website. The indictments are short. I did find one person who post and said that a portion
that's being left out from the storytelling in the media is that Victor actually went by Victoria. And I think
that the indictments initially charged with four different counts, right? charged with the kidnapping because
walking the victim off of the path into the woods, charged with the murder, charged with leaving the corpse there.
So there there were four different charges and I can't remember the fourth. I could pull it up here on my other
screen, but the indictments read as on his or her person with everything with the gun, with his or her, his or her.
So, I think that there is some possible validation that maybe Victor was going by the name of Victoria at the time of
this homicide, >> but maybe they're holding back this information because they do have some
connection to other crimes. >> Possibly. I I think that had that been the case, especially had it been this in
this case with this case being such publicized, I think we would be hearing that. Again, it was it's been relatively
soon since or sorry, relatively recent since he was sentenced. So maybe that's not the case. But again, there doesn't
seem to be any line that one can draw from that perpetrator to either of our victims here. And as said, he would have
been quite young when that took place. one that I think is of that seems to be fascinating and capturing the attention
locally here with much more suspicion which a high with a higher degree of suspicion of possibly being connected is
a case that that just 3 weeks prior to the very sad sixth anniversary of the day that Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown
were so senselessly murdered, there was another disturbing and troubling case of
a very violent and very public murder that takes takes place this time not in the Rocky River Reservation, but just a
short drive away in a place called Cam's Corners. Cam's Corners is a neighborhood
on the west side of Cleveland, Ohio. This is another gun homicide in broad daylight in the middle of what should
have been a great afternoon in Cleveland. The sun was shining. Folks were outside enjoying the sun when a
very loud gunshot rang out on a an otherwise quiet residential street in Cam's Corners. When we are talking
Cleveland news, you know, my go-to is News 5. So, of course, most of this is from the good reporters at News5. It's a
sunny Wednesday afternoon, May 14th, 2025. So, kids are still in school at this time. Folks are out going about
their day. One man is outside of his home tending to his lawn. A neighbor of his is in her living room inside her
home. This is across the street. It's about 1:30 in the afternoon. She hears a bang. She hears the gunshot. She looks
across the street. She sees two things right away. Her neighbor is down on the ground and a dark SUV is driving away.
So, she springs into action. runs across the street. She knows the neighbor. He has lived there a long
time. He is wellliked. As she gets closer, she sees he's covered in blood. She tries desperately to help, yelling
his name, Tom. Tom. He is not responding. She kneels down and checks his pulse. He's gone. Dead by the time
that she gets across the street. Emergency services are called and they are on the scene with the quickness. And
sadly, the EMS confirms what the neighbor found. Tom, the neighbor, was shot and killed. He died in the street
of his neighborhood. Responding, police were now on the scene and looking for that dark colored SUV. It was determined
that Thomas Barton Overall, aged 68, died after being shot while he was outside mowing his lawn. He moved to
Cleveland in the 80s. He was retired. He worked part-time at Rocket Arena, mostly
in guest relations at the Cavs games. Several neighbors told News 5 that they were struggling bad with the loss. They
were all in shock. As said, he was wellknown, well-liked. Folks said he was meticulous about taking care of his
house and his property, in particular, his lawn. He was a member of a hiking club. He had hiked over 6,000 miles with
the Cleveland Hiking Club on that Friday. So, two days after he was murdered, on that Friday, Tom was going
to travel overseas for a two-week hiking trip with the Cleveland Club. They were
to be hiking in Spain. Police quickly located the dark SUV that was spotted at the scene of the murder right after the
gunshot was heard. According to Cleveland police, officers responded and located a vehicle believed to have been
involved nearby. A suspect was found dead inside the vehicle from what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot
wound. The vehicle was found on Hogsback Lane. This is near the Stinch Comb Grath
Memorial in the Rocky River Reservation. The perpetrator, the killer has been identified as 66-year-old Brian Hurt of
Cleveland and the identification came by way of the Kyhoga County Medical Examiner's Office. Brian Hurt lived at
15717 Mun Road. Okay, these two were neighbors. So Neighbor shoots Neighbor, drives to the very nearby Stonesthrow
Park, Rocky River Reservation, and turns the gun on himself. >> Wow. This seems very crazy, very
bizarre, but when you start digging into it, a lot of it kind of suddenly makes sense. So apparently, Captain, when the
police call Tom's sister, so Tom didn't have any kids. He wasn't married. He didn't have any kids. So they call his
next of kin to notify her that sadly her her brother has been killed and her reaction is was it Brian the neighbor?
So obviously there was something going on here that that others knew about because the neighbors said the same
thing like but from what I can gather based off of what other people in the neighborhood have said on the record to
reporters it sounds like Brian Hurt really sucked and that Tom Overall was really cool. I I don't want to pretend
to know the details of that, but it's it was interesting to me to learn that when
they notify the sister, her her first reaction is, "Was it Brian?" And so that that tells you and and then
of course Kyogre County Medical Examiner's Office confirmed that yes, it was Brian. That that
>> yeah, it kind of tells you everything you need to know. He he can't be tried and he can't be charged and tried
obviously at this point, but all signs are pointing to that that they know who did this and that there's there won't be
any further investigation. However, the further investigation comes is now Brian
Hurt is being looked at because one, he lives so close. So both him and his neighbor that he killed lived very close
to this Rocky River reservation. so close that the police didn't have to look very far to find the dark colored
SUV. And I also am very suspicious. This has not been said on the record, but Captain, I bet I bet you that neighbor
across the street, she probably has witnessed some kind of beef between the two. She's going to know her neighbor's
vehicle. She's probably telling them, "Look, I I can't say 100%, but it looked like Brian hurt the neighbor's vehicle
that was he was this guy was cut in his grass and he shot and killed. He laid in
that street. Thank God he was killed instantly and didn't suffer, but you know, he laid in that street while they
conducted their their investigation. Tom's family and the neighbors. I mean, this is very very tragic. But and now
Brian hurt. You can't make this stuff up. He is properly named, my friend, as he has an extensive history of violence.
>> Yeah. >> So, let's go through this guy's rap sheet here, shall we? Brian Hurt, the
rap sheet on him shows us 25 criminal arrests. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah, that's that's a five with a two in
front of it, right? >> Wow. >> More than two dozen. And and look, I'm not I know that this shouldn't mean
anything, but that's a nice neighborhood. It was hard for me to believe that a dude with this many this
lengthy of a criminal history >> live with somebody >> cuz he could have been living with
somebody that did well for themselves and was just trying to help out this [ __ ]
>> It just looked like one of those neighborhoods where people live and stay in their homes for a very long time. And
clearly the neighbors that were good people all knew each other >> now. So this includes aggravated
robbery, aggravated assault, aggravated menacing. One of the more notable offenses, he attacked an officer in
2010. This was at a Rocky River courtroom. This is all on you can view the video of
him attacking the baiff, I guess you would call, it's, you know, the the court officer, the the baiff there. And
from my understanding, the judge is looking at the case and and I think Brian Hurt thought he was going
to get released on bond and something changed with that or he or he was just wrong and this set him off. He he then
attacks the baoith gets 5 years in prison. So some a little more clear and concise information on
this guy here. So, Cleveland city leaders said Brian Hurt, the perp in the murder of Tom Overall, was problematic
for years. A news a a three News investigative reporter found that in 2010, Brian Hurt was convicted on
charges from an incident at his home in which police say he let his dog out and encouraged it to attack a census taker.
You know, the census takers, they come around and they ask some questions. They have a little questionnaire to fill out.
I think this takes place every 10 years. He he unleashes a dog telling, you know,
telling the dog to to attack the person. There's probably not a lot of people showing up to work going, I have to
collect these surveys. I'm loving my life today. And then they knock on this asshole's door. And the guy's like, hey
dog, sick balls. The judge gave him a suspended sentence and probation for this offense. Seems
reasonable. Kudos to the judge. Seems like a hey, give this guy a second chance. Two months later, police
arrested Brian Her in a road rage incident in West Park. According to the indictment, this is again according to
three News. According to the indictment, Brian Hurt followed a driver of another
vehicle who was with his wife and two kids, pulled alongside of that family's car and pointed a gun at them. It was
then, right, he's facing those charges at the Rocky River Court that police say Brian hurt became enraged that his bond
changed and reportedly lunged at the baiff. reportedly is a a word we don't need to put in there. It's
on video. You can see him charge the baiff. If you have eyeballs, you saw it. >> Typed it up.
>> What is exactly what is part of this though too that wasn't clear in the video that I saw is according to this
report when he lunged at the officer, he was trying to take the officer's gun. So
he had So Brian Hurt had to be tasered. I Man, I hope they tased him good, too. The the officer
>> wound up with a broken nose and then it was in 2011 that Brian Hurt was sentenced to 5 years in prison for that
attack. Here's what I see. This guy, look, some of the city leaders in Cleveland have already said this, that
that >> he's a whack. >> Mental health. >> Yes. Mental health needs to be a concern
here. Did we Did we miss something? Were there red flags that were missed? No, no, no, no. You saw all the red flags
and he got punished for those actions. >> I was just going to say sometimes we take this mental illness a little too
far. If you're a good person that's struggling with a depression or anxiety or whatever, fine. But some of these
people, their whole life, they were they were born with quote unquote a mental illness. Uh uh they're born with evil.
They're born with hatred. They're born with anger. That's something that I don't think sometimes we can fix.
>> Well, yeah. Clearly, this guy is one of these full-on rage angry angry dudes. I mean,
he was 66 years old, so maybe this was just something that was going on in the later part of his life. But in in a
basically a 15year time span, he sicks a dog on some poor innocent person. He pulls a gun on a family in a road rage
incident. He attacks a baiff at in a courtroom, goes to prison for 5 years, and then after he gets out, a handful of
years after, well, it would have been less than 10 years after he gets out, he shoots his neighbor who's cutting the
grass. He went unhinged at some point. >> Somebody after I say this is going to say, "Well, Captain, that's a dumb
thought." But what I wonder in this guy's life, if nothing if there's no traumatic thing, like if he didn't lose
a loved one or something, is it possible that he got in a car wreck or something
happened where he had some kind of head injury? because I I've only really seen it a couple times in person of
individuals that had severe head injuries and their personality shift completely
and some of them either become just more reckless or seeking like adrenaline rush. But some of them become
angry and violent because of a head injury. Oh yes, we we know all of that to be true. And
look, we just don't have enough time here to be sympathetic to the the murderer here today. So,
>> right, >> this this of course catches the headlines and then people want to know,
well, why did he choose to go to the park and take his life? Does that have some significance to anything else? We
we can clearly see he has a lengthy history of violence. He was not in prison at the time of the park bench
murders. I mean, he could have went inside his home and taken his own life. He could have went in his backyard and
did this. He could have drove anywhere and did this. He could have drove and tried to flee the scene.
>> Well, is law enforcement telling us what kind of gun was found when they found
his body? >> So, great question. What we do know here is that the gun that the gun that was
used to kill his neighbor and the gun that he used to take his own life with was the same. And it it is not they
don't need to do ballistic testing on it because the caliber is nowhere near what
was used in so a very small caliber. I believe 22 was used in the bench the park bench murders and this was a higher
caliber gun that was used. So, they don't need to do that testing now. >> Well, that's why I'm doubling down
because the speculation is, well, did he go to the park to kind of leave law enforcement breadcrumb? Well, if he's
going to really leave them a breadcrumb, you think he would leave the murder weapon that he used if he was involved
in the Park Bingch murders? >> Yeah. And if he wanted to tip, I think that this is more of a um a thought that
this was a knee-jerk reaction, like he just went to a place for some reason that is familiar to him and that maybe
has has some significance for some other reason. I mean, he if he wanted us to know, he could have simply left a note
if he was the person responsible, but that didn't happen. I see this is again it goes back to the idea that I really
firmly believe and and I until I'm proven otherwise I I really think that there was a direct connection between
the the gunman for the park bench case with one of those victims. I don't see any line that you can draw between
either of these perpetrators. I really think the Brian hurt situation is more of a
oh >> a ticking time bomb >> [ __ ] Yes, he knew he was a ticking time bomb. We've seen it time and time again.
And this time he he he recogn Oh my I finally finally lost it. I killed this man. I'm not going back to prison.
That's what this one looks like to me. Now, that's from that's from a uh from an overview, right? We we can't say and
we don't know for certain. And again, it's very early in the goings on here to believe that they've completely
dismissed that as a possibility. They being the investigators. Now, thank you for bringing up the gun because I want
to give a big shout out to 19 News anchor Nicole Versanski. She interviewed the current Metro Parks
Police Chief, Kelly Stillman. To be clear here, Kelly Stillman was not the chief at the time of the 2019
Parkbench murders when that took place, but has since taken over as the police chief. And I'm giving I want to give
Nicole a big shout out because I listened to the interview she did and conducted. I listened to it twice and
she asked all of the right questions at all the right times and in the perfect order. This was the question that really
stood out for me. And talking about guns, she asked the chief, did Brian Hurt have other guns? Right. The the one
that was used in this murder suicide, we know is not a match to the double homicide, but did he have other guns?
When you went into his home, and again, everything that I'm seeing in type and everything that I'm hearing on by
people's words keep saying his home. So, I I've got to take that to believe that
that that was his home. And I couldn't find any information to suggest that he was married, so he may have lived there
alone. This is a beautiful, great, quaint neighborhood. It It is smaller homes in this neighborhood. Brilliant
question. Did Brian Hurt have other guns? I hate this answer, Chief Stillman. I hate this answer. The answer
he gave is that's a Cleveland Police Department case. You'd have to ask them. [ __ ] Why didn't you ask them? Why
isn't your department asking them? It's not 19 news anchor Nicole's job to solve
your double homicide that is sitting there for 6 years. And I think this is where I share the frustration that the
families have here and question how hard is this case being worked. Because when
presented to the police chief about any questions of evidence or what is being done, the answer that we get time and
time again is, "Well, these things don't happen overnight." No [ __ ] We know that, Chief.
Guess what? The murders didn't happen yesterday. They happened six years ago. And I don't
want to go too far down this road because we've already recommended that people go back and listen to those other
episodes had they not where we go way in depth on the on the timing that all the
vehicles arrive into that pull out into that parking space for the Rocky River reservation where they found Carnell's
vehicle where they found Kate's vehicle where the guy that everybody just wants to call him the roofer was sitting and
and like Carnell's family says his mother and his grandmother They say it so perfectly when you hear
them. That man was there before the murders, during the murders, and after the murders. He was the only person that
that checks all three of those boxes. The only person that we can find that checks all three of those boxes. Very
likely the only person in existence that checks all three of those boxes. And they are very concerned with that guy.
And so am I. And that's what we told you in those previous two episodes. >> Yeah. A couple points. One, I think with
Brian killing himself in the park, to me that's more well, somebody else will find me, not if I kill myself in my own
house, then maybe one of my loved ones will find me. And maybe he was trying to uh save them from that experience.
But to the park bench murders, you know, we covered this a while ago, but I I dove back in and the speculation that
you hear coming from the public and coming from law enforcement was, well, Kate had this ex-boyfriend
and Kate also went on this date that was with some kind of weirdo >> and she was on dating apps as well.
>> Yeah, dudes. Stop being creeps. But on top of that, could it been racially motivated? It's possible.
>> Well, yeah, that's something that's come up time and time again in this case,
>> right? But there's a lot of people in the in the in public's eyes that go, "No, absolutely not." Well, until you
solve it, you can't rule out anything. And then also, like you were saying, this roofer, but when you hear these
updated reports, you hear from people, well, these individuals were cleared. Now, I don't think they were publicly
cleared by law enforcement, but 6 years, maybe you need to double back, reinter these people, double check their alibis,
ju double check your paperwork, maybe there's something that will jump out at you. We've seen this in other cases.
Double check your work. But this is where uh my questions are the same as yours. How hard is this investigation
being worked? You have a guy that should have been an eyewitness, should have been an ear witness that just doesn't
know anything sitting in a parking lot not far away from the crime scene. And and I I don't think his background shows
that he's a saint. >> No, he's been charged. He has a history of violence as well. He was a known gun
owner. And then we we personally had several people that told us, and this is hearsay because they they heard it from
other individuals, that he regularly would keep firearms in his vehicle. And what what was also reported directly to
us is that he owned the same caliber of gun that was used in the double homicide. And he was interviewed. And
then then when we say interviewed, that sounds like there was a lot of work done. No, he he was probably asked a few
basic questions and then sent along his way. And then they realize it's not a murder suicide. It's actually a double
homicide. Oh, we better call some people back to the scene and and talk to them again. So, look, I I I can't I won't
fault them for ex for every misstep that I think occurred on the day that they the bodies were found.
Um because I think a lot of this things are happening quickly. They're they are I think their intent was to do the very
best job that they could. I really think that they thought they were going to find a firearm in the water. That was
that didn't happen. And when that didn't happen, they realized that the the case
is not what they thought they were responding to. And we've said this a hundred times on this show that that is
that always puts the investigation at a significant disadvantage when you think you're arriving to one
crime and it takes you a little bit of time to figure out that it was actually something entirely different. Now, where
I will give the Metro Parks Police Department and the the Chief of Police, Ke Kelly Stillman, credit and kudos.
It's been reported that they did take the investigation to the VOC Society, which is a crimeolving club in
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. members of the society. So there there's like 80 people in the the this Vociety
and members are forensic professionals, current and former FBI profilers, homicide investigators, scientists,
psychologists, prosecutors, and coroners whose expert experience and expertise provide or hopefully provide new
insights for the investigations that have gone cold. And Chief Stillman is on record saying that we took it to the V-D
society and they said that their findings were that we did everything we could. We've done everything we could
and that there's nothing that they would have done differently. That's great. If
that if that's something you want to hang your hat on, Chief Stillman, go for it. But I also have an understanding of
how the VOC society works. I think you should get much credit for taking it to them. It's some of the most brilliant
minds in this country for solving homicides, especially cold cases. But your outfit has been working in this
case for 6 years. When you take it to the Vociety, it is usually reviewed for an afternoon. That's about the best they
can do because they are hearing cases from all over the country. If that is your rebuttal to, well, no, we worked it
correctly. I I don't I don't know that that that doesn't make me feel any better. I still think that there have
been things that that could be done, things that should be done in this case. And again, there there are things we
brought up in the first episode in 2023 and then there are a lot of things that we brought up in our more recent
coverage in Feb in February with episodes 820 and 8:21. >> Right. But when you go to this crime
scene, view it as the worst possibility, not just, well, this was a murder suicide. Because if you take that
witness that could have been an eyewitness, could have been an ear witness, the roofer, and you just say,
"Hey, we're going to we're going to take you down for questioning." Now, the questioning might not matter. Maybe you
get a little bit of information from him, but you keep saying, "I didn't see anything. I didn't see anything. But
what do we know? The victims were killed by gun. So, is there a test that we can
do to to figure out if this roofer fired a gun that day?" Yes, there's a test that we could do. So does administer
>> there's actually two there's actually two tests that you could do. One the gunshot residue test the gunpowder
residue test obviously. The other test you could do is hey before you leave do you mind if we search your truck
>> right? >> You didn't see anything. You didn't hear anything. Uh this might be a murder
suicide but we're just asking this of everybody that parked here. >> Right. >> You mind if we search your truck? Oh,
and by the way, if you want to take a polygraph test, that's fine, too. There again, to to to stand on this this hill
of we did everything. >> You could have found that murder weapon in that dude's truck,
>> right? Or in his pocket. Is that a 22 in your pocket or you just happy to see me?
>> He wasn't happy to see him, I'll tell you that. >> Well, like the family says, somebody
knows something. Somebody saw something. You can find a seeking information poster available on fbi.gov
for Cardell Sledge and Catherine Brown who were the murder victims in Fairview Park, Ohio, June 4th, 2019.
As said, there is a reward available for an that leads to an arrest and conviction in this case. Anyone with any
information regarding these murders is asked to call the FBI's Cleveland Field Office at 216
622 6842 or you can call Crimestoppers of Kyhoga County at 2162527463 and tips can be submitted at
tips.fbi.gov. I do want to to really emphasize something here though. If you do not
feel that you need to remain anonymous when giving your information or your tip, I'm suggesting that you call the
FBI's Cleveland field office at 2166226842. [Music] Want to thank everybody for joining us
here in the garage each and every week. Thank you to your mother. Thank you to your brother. If you want to support
True Crime Garage, make sure you subscribe to the show. If you need more True Crime Garage, make sure you
subscribe on Patreon or Apple Podcast app to Off the Record. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the
beautiful listeners? >> We do. And something we never really say on the show and we probably should say
it from time to time or at least mention it from time to time. So I will do so here. If you love the show and any of
our sponsors that you hear are of interest to you, use the code, the promo codes that we provide, or if you go to
their websites and you make a purchase or you sign up for anything and they ask you where you you heard about their
product or their services, their company, please let them know that you heard it from the garage guys, True
Crime Garage. It it would mean a lot to us. It really helps the show out. And we
want to thank all of our listeners for the longtime listeners who have stuck with us through all of the years and
been chilling with us in the garage for year after year, but also the new listeners that are getting some garage
goodness maybe for the first time or or just this year. >> You got to love the old garage listeners
cuz they got that garage musk. >> The centennials. So for the recommended reading for this week, I feel like we
are going all the way back to the beginning here with this one. This week, we are recommending Amy, my search for
her killer. Bay Village, right up there near Rocky River, Ohio, is where this all took place. 10-year-old Amy
Mahalavik was abducted after being lured to a local shopping plaza by a mysterious male caller who called her
home. Thousands of volunteers, police officers, and FBI agents searched for the girl who was tragically found dead a
few months later. for her killer has never been found. Amy, my search for her killer is by a longtime friend of the
show and truly a great writer of both true crime and science fiction. His name is James Rener. Go to our website and
check out the recommended page for that great title. Other great books, docue series, documentaries, and podcast
recommendations are all there for you at true crimegar.com. And until next week,
be good, be kind, and don't litter. [Music] We can't gatekeep this any longer. The
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Park Bench Murders ////// 856

Part 1 of 1

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On June 4, 2019, a little after 5 P.M., longtime friends Carnell “Nell” Sledge and Katherine “Kate” Brown arrived at the Rocky River Reservation which is a section of the Cleveland MetroParks. Both met at a pull-off gravel parking lot near the Lorain Road Bridge. Carnell and Katherine were shot and killed near a park bench shortly after arriving. Carnell was only 40 years old and Katherine was just 33 years old. These homicides are still unsolved. We covered this case before (see below) and will continue to follow up as necessary until an arrest(s) is made. Anyone with information regarding these murders is asked to call the FBI’s Cleveland field office at 216-622-6842. Tips can also be submitted at tips.fbi.gov (http://tips.fbi.gov/) If you wish to remain anonymous please contact Crime Stoppers of Cuyahoga County at 3216-252-7463.

TCG Previous Coverage of The Park Bench Murders;

February 11 & 12, 2025 - Park Bench Murders /// Parts 1 & 2 /// Episodes:820-821

April 4, 2023 - Cleveland MetroParks Murders /// Episode: 660

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved murders of Katherine Brown and Carnell Sledge and their connections to recent violent crimes in Ohio.

Key points

Net Credit's Commitment. Net Credit offers personal loans when others say no, emphasizing accessibility.
The Cleveland Park Bench Murders. A tragic unsolved double homicide that has left families grieving for six years.
Timeline of the Crime. Law enforcement narrows down the timeline to a 14-minute window before the bodies were discovered.
Speculation on Suppressor Use. Discussion arises about whether a silencer was used in the crime, sparking debate among armchair detectives.
Leroy Johnston's Tragic Murder. Leroy Johnston, a 77-year-old man, was found murdered in a park, raising concerns about safety.
Victor's Guilty Plea. Victor Vdler pleads guilty to the murder of Leroy Johnston, shocking the community.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The healing process most likely can only start for them after we get justice.

Highlighting the need for justice as part of the healing process for the victims' families.

6:31WatchJul 15, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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