Mothers Seeking Justice | “48 Hours" Full Episodes | Forensic Files

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Acme is a very small community everybody knows each other day
see you take care [Applause] they go to the local Diner they have their breakfast lunch or
dinner okay and they shop at the General Store you have that feeling of safety keep your doors
unlocked on November 24th 1989 Mandy stavic went out running with her dog [Music]
the dog had returned but she [Music] hadn't and when she didn't come back I [Music]
panicked there was a massive hunt for her everybody was out looking it was 3 days later when we
found her this is the South for of the Nooksack River she was just floating lightly the only thing I could see were
her tennis shoes and socks when I rolled her over it was kind of a real shock to
me because she looked like my daughter and people would say to me oh you're so strong oh yeah right you can't
be strong through something like that it just rips you to pieces oh we were in shock people were
crying they were um whoa there was a killer out there [Music] somewhere the question is was this
person going to strike again yeah so much unknown [Music] for 25 years we had no viable suspects
in this case you've got to keep working keep persisting keep going Mandy's dead but
this case was not going to die no I absolutely did not think it would ever get [Music]
solved I'm amazingly enough it was two women talking in a water park that gave us the break in this
case one of the moms brought her name up I just kind of turned to maril Le and said well I am sure I know who killed
her and turned to her and I said oh I do too [Music] [Music] so take me back it's November 27th 1989
where are we right now we're Upstream from where I recovered her this a solemn place for you isn't it it isday it
really does back then detective Ron Peterson led the search team for Mandy stavic moving up River in a zodiac boat
we came around the corner and we got out of the main river and into the little side Channel and I could see pink
something pink it was Mandy wearing only her running shoes when you lifted her out of the water as a father did you say
anything to her you're the first person I asked up I said I got you Peterson and so many others in the small
community of Acme Washington are still emotional even 30 years later what was lost for you in this community with the
death of Mandy stavic a sense of Innocence I think more than anything Jim Freeman was Mandy's high
school basketball coach and gave the eulogy at her memorial service attended by nearly a thousand people you see her
smiling back at you right at your soul with eyes that say I love life he had mentored her off the court
as well becoming a father figure after Mandy's parents divorced Mandy expressed her admiration for him in this
card for Mr Freeman the one person who has inspired and influenced me more than anyone
thank you you're the greatest most sincerely Mandy stavic class of 89 number 13 basketball player cheerleader top
student once an aspiring airline pilot Mandy stavic truly stood out says her mother Mary she wanted to do
everything she wanted to be very good to the best at everything she did and she was Mandy's older sister Molly Brighton
Mandy she was larger than life she accomplished a lot in the short time that she was here all that promise
came to an abrupt end in 1989 when the college freshman came home from Central Washington University for Thanksgiving
the day after the big holiday meal at her house Mandy set out on the last jog of
her life with her German Shepherd Kyra how many times you driven this road oh jeez probably probably close to 100
over the over the 30 years of working on the case detective Kevin Bowie who was just a rookie Deputy back then has
pieced together Mandy's route from the few people who briefly saw her that day she always started from the house
here then then ran down westbound toward the west side of the Strand Road the last person to see Mandy alive
was a man in a pickup truck who pulled up right here Mandy ran right in front of him heading in that direction to go
around the bend to her home about an eigh of a mile from here I would say to that wooded area ahead of
us is where I believe she was abducted Bowie says her as salent had to be in a vehicle Mandy was too fast a runner to
catch on foot how do you think she was abducted by a weapon that's what they used to
gain the controller I believe it was a gun and what points the gun at her and says get in yep points the gun at her
get in that point she's compliant investigators believe the attacker had kicked the dog into a ditch before
abducting Mandy he then sexually assaulted her about 3 and 1/2 miles away from where she was jogging afterward she
tried to flee a scenario suggested by the scratches on her arms and legs I immediately went oh my God she was
running away running through the blackberries blackberry bushes got thorns on big thorns
and that's what I thought she was running away from whoever had her I believe whoever was chasing her caught
her and hit her in the head knocking her out and then placed her in the river to
make sure she drowned it occurred to Ron Peterson that Mandy's body May hold other important evidence he had just
recently been trained by the FBI on recovering DNA and based on the position that she was in the water you knew you
had to get her out to preserve it that was the biggest fear of mine is how to get her out without disturbing it his
training paid off so when they did the autopsy they were able to recover male DNA from Mandy the male DNA was Sean
suggesting a sexual attack what happened in terms of the investigation from there
it was you know you always look for that person that's strange or odd that doesn't quite fit into the community
tips poured in and deputies check them out this is a standard Road where sui was
observed David sui was a local Drifter seen in the area that day Bowie says they got a warrant and got his DNA and
he was ruled out deputies interviewed various Persons of Interest including Mandy's boyfriend
Rick Zender they also looked at him just to rule him out all dead ends in all some 30 local men gave DNA samples none
matched the case went cold and the murder hung like a dark cloud over this community for the next two decades it
was like an assault on all of us then almost 25 years later a new suspect emerged and he had lived right in
Mandy's Neighborhood his name wasn't even on the radar [Music] I don't know what it was about her I'm
just an ordinary person I don't know how I managed to have that child Mary stavic spent years haunted by
the murder of her daughter Mandy and the lack of progress in the case and I just
really didn't have any hope that became more ingrained at me as the years went on but detective Kevin
Bowe who attended the same high school as Mandy had never given up by 2009 he was the lead investigator
on this unsolved case we needed some answers we needed to get to the bottom of it he began scouring the case File
pouring over old leads and old suspects and I started going through who's been interviewed who's been talked to Bowie
noticed that a local drug dealer named John wisnoski had been questioned because he told people he might know who
murdered Mandy although his DNA did not match the crime scene Bowie still wanted
to talk to him again and in 2010 he traveled all the way to Cambodia where wisnoski now lives to question him what
did your gut tell you about this man I thought he was a good liar just kept r generating I don't know who did this you
weren't believing him though I I didn't believe him but a feeling wasn't evidence so it's another dead
end yes but then 3 years later the Sheriff's Office got a tip that sent them in a New
Direction coming from of all places a pair of moms chatting at a water park it was June
2013 where were you guys when you had this conversation sitting on the grass right
over there Heather Backstrom and marily Lee Anderson had both gone to Mount Baker High and you just watching your
kids coming down the water slides and things MH out of the blue one of the other mothers brought up the name Mandy
stavic both Heather and maril Lee who barely knew each other held long suspicions about the same man marily had
never told anyone in law enforcement of her suspicions I really wasn't ready because we are in a small town and to
accuse someone of something that we don't know for sure is a little scary Heather also never discussed her
concerns with anyone in the area no friend or family in the community that I lived in because of the weight of that
but talking to each other here in this water park decades later they finally felt compelled to say his name out loud
and I just said that I knew that it was Tim that it was Tim bass Timothy bass had gone to Mount Baker High to why did
you say Tim bass I thought it was Tim best because of the experiences that I had had with him in the past disturbing
experience very disturbing yes as it turns out both women had experienced creepy run-ins with him and began
exchanging stories I'm probably 15 and he was in his 20s it was after a softball game in the
summer of 1989 a few months before Mandy's murder we decided a bunch of us to go to Dairy
Queen she says they all piled into a friend's truck including Tim bass who was sitting next to her he would talk
about my eyes that my eyes were beautiful then he took like a pen out of the cup holder and and would like start
rubbing it along my knees cuz I was wearing cut off sweatpants you must have been scared you're 15 years old yeah I
was very nervous hearing Heather's story marily told her own which was far more chilling back in July 1991 she was at
home one night with her young son when she heard a knock on the door so I open the door and there's Tim bass at the
door and he asks if he can use the phone because he had been hunting all day and
wanted to use the phone to call his wife when she handed him the phone he started
dialing but something wasn't right I hear the the beep beep beep we're sorry when you call and the phone's
disconnected so I thought okay something's up then she says things got scary so then he walks through the
kitchen and back to my bedroom he said that he used to drive by our house and that he had always been in love with me
and wanted to make love to me right then and there yes marily Le says she demanded that Tim leave but he refused
and what are you feeling at this moment uh terrified eventually after she threatened to call the police Tim
left years later the two women now realized they had to speak up merily contacted another mount Baker High
graduate detective Ken Gates She had a gut feeling that Tim bass was responsible for killing Mandy where did
Tim Bass Live he lived right in this house right here a home less than 2 miles from
Mandy's house right along her running route back in 1989 1990 did they go to the bass
household and question people there they looked at it like no it wouldn't be this
fast family because they're well-liked in the community and so I I think it was just overlooked Tim bass along with his
brother and father had never been asked to give a DNA sample and for the past 25
years Tim had been living a quiet life in a nearby community married with three children and driving a delivery truck
for a bakery any criminal record anything that would have called attention to Tim bass no he uh kept to
himself and for the most part worked and came home but now police decided to pay
Tim a visit at home very non-threatening than your approach correct when asked about Mandy Bass pretended he didn't
even remember her at least not at first so he just looked up and was like Mandy Mandy Mandy um oh yeah she was the girl
that they found in the river it was kind of like okay I we're being played here who could who could forget Mandy stavic
police asked bass for a saliva sample to get his DNA and at that point he goes well um I don't want to give my DNA I
watch those crime shows I see how many people go to prison because they given DNA so they tried a new plan at this
point we decided we need to get a surveillance team on him and follow him on his route they followed Tim Bass All
Night Long on his Baker delivery route police were hoping bass would throw away an item with DNA on it but no
luck the investigation stall yet again until police received an unexpected helping hand I wasn't really going to
take no for an answer I'm going to find something I'm going to get you something
[Music] 24 long years had passed without an arrest and police finally had a prime
suspect back in 1989 Tim bass lived down the road from Mandy stavic and she often
jogged past his house on her regular running route which is how he fixated on her police believe if Tim bass sitting
in his home was looking out the window could he have seen Mandy running by easily investigators knew Mandy didn't
jog by the bass house the day she disappeared but Tim was in their crosshairs so they wanted to know more
about him they got some background from his younger brother Tom as kids they ped
around together like most Brothers very competitive we had a lot of fun together
playing you know different sports Tim had always been a loner but as a teenager he began to reveal deeper
issues social interactions never really been natural to him Tom remembers a harrowing
night after a high school girlfriend had broken up with Tim he was on the phone with her in his bedroom and he
apparently had a pistol with him at some point said I'm going to kill myself he actually ended up firing the gun Tim had
fired into the air from that night on Tom says people close to Tim noticed a change in him it's just the disgust the
disrespect towards women Robin did you ever see this oh yes mhm Robin is Tom's wife I think that he really thinks that
women are inferior to him Tim got married young at 22 just 6 weeks after Mandy's murder he married another Mount
Baker graduate Gina Malone she she says it was hardly a fairy tale romance I married him basically to get away from
home Gina says throughout their nearly 30-year marriage Tim was a controlling and emotionally abusive husband I felt
like his servant go get me a drink go get make me food I personally witnessed him tell Gina to shut up you know 8
million times it didn't feel like a marriage I like I went into a prison actually but Gina stuck with Tim and had
three children with him why did you stay with him uh I was scared and I did leave
I actually I got a restraining order and left for 2 months at that point I had started divorce proceedings and he's
like I'm going to lie to the judge and get the kids taken away from you anything with my
kids I'm just like okay I'm going to do whatever I have to do to not lose my kids in Tim bass detectives believed
they had their killer but they wanted to cast a wider net of potential suspects to be sure they were on the right path
we developed this list we called it a DNA sweep investigators got DNA from three dozen more men in the area but Tim
bass wouldn't cooperate so cops called the bakery where Tim worked and spoke with his boss
Kim Wagner the Tim bass I knew he was different I don't know he was weird how is he weird though you just never knew
what Tim was going to be at work that day the smallest thing would anger him and so you tend to kind of stay away
from people like that and Kim says she experienced Tim's low regard for women he never called me Kim he always called
me woman woman and um which you know whatever as Kim chatted with investigators she
realized they were looking at the Mandy stavic murder and figured out what they were really after Kim said well you guys
want DNA don't you and I said well yes and she says I can get it for you at this point I'm thinking I'm working with
somebody that potentially did this to Mandy and I got to know she kept an eye on Tim day after
day watching if he discarded anything that might have his saliva on it you'd empty the garbage so it would be empty
yeah in case he dropped a cup uhhuh or a bottle yeah a cup yeah it took three long months and then finally she saw him
throw away a plastic cup and later a Coke can and I just stood there and went it's game time I'm like there's a
jackpot and so this time my heart was like oh I was I was dying because there was a lot of people around so I grabbed
it and then I was like I threw it in my desk drawer and then she gave it to police my gut said it was him my heart
said it wasn't because I just didn't really want to think that we were all betrayed so about 3 months later we got
the results from the state crime lab and Katie from the crime lab says Kevin we've got a match
you hear those words what was that moment like you hear them but you're not sure you're you're it's almost like I'm
dreaming I'm going to wake up at any moment in time I was just like this is the biggest thing that's ever happened
to me a lot of tears after the DNA match they paid another visit to Tim as he was leaving
work I'm questioning I'm like did you have any relationship with her no so you didn't even kiss her or anything no
never the why would your DNA be inside her he went from denial to well how did you get my DNA what are you
talking about right after that conversation on December 12th 2017 28 years after Mandy had been found
dead police arrested 50-year-old Tim bass in the bakery parking lot they charged him with kidnapping rape and
murder as my partner's cuffing him up I say you're under arrest for the murder of Mandy
stavic later that day the sheriff came knocking on Mary's door it also happened to be her birthday and he says we've got
him that's all he says we've got him and I says who I really I really never dreamed I really never dreamed it
Mandy's sister Molly was overwhelmed too I like wow what a present what a birthday present
detective Bowie called Kim Wagner with the news her first thought was about Mandy and I asked if her family
knew what' he say that they knew and so that's that's why I did it I just never forgot about Mandy but it's a
big leap between thinking you have your man and convicting him in a court of law
were you trying to get me to admit to something I didn't do is that what you're trying to do right now Jim says
he's innocent and that he had a secret that explains everything he said I just wanted to let you know I slept with
Mandy I was like [Music] what for prosecutor Dave mcran it's been a long road to Justice she was such a
good good kid and it just shouldn't have happened just shouldn't have happened at
all mcran was 44 when Mandy stavic was [Music] murdered and now at 73 ladies and
gentlemen of the jury he's come out of retirement and insisted he' not be paid as he leads the prosecution team in this
deeply personal case in your heart is as well as in your head you wanted to finish this you're B all
right after 30 years of Heartache fear and frustration the trial of Mandy's accused killer finally Begins the
state's case is simple the defendant's DNA was inside her and we know that she was kidnapped she was raped and then she
was killed case closed no Tim bass is not guilty says defense attorney Steven Jackson he didn't kidnap anyone he
didn't rape anyone and he certainly didn't kill anyone Jackson floats a theory to jurors
that if true would be shocking the suggestion that Tim bass and Mandy stavic had consensual sex in the hours
before her murder there were no signs of a struggle evidence of sexual contact is
not evidence of rape everything I've said is the truth in this interrogation after his arrest bass claimed he had
been having a secret affair with Mandy it was more of a friendship type thing we just talked and and uh then it just
kind of grew into U more more of a physical thing and we didn't even really do it that much so it was more kissing
and stuff DNA can only tell you that there was contact Stark FIS is one of bass's defense attorneys Mandy had come
home for Thanksgiving break are you saying that when he came home they met somewhere and had intimacy uh that's
exactly what I'm saying and what do you say to those who say prove it that no one saw the two of them together there
are no telephone calls made between the two of them first of all I don't have to
prove it the burden of proof is on the state of Washington not on the defense remember when Tim bass was first
questioned in 2013 he said he barely remembered who Mandy was now they were lovers why would his story evolve like
that in your opinion because he's making it up he's trying to cover himself good
afternoon Miss Wagner come on step right up here if you would testifying for the
prosecution is the woman who helped retrieve the DNA evidence that linked bass to the crime scene was terrified
but Kim Wagner knew she had one more job to do if Tim was potentially involved in
that crime I wanted to do the right thing for Mandy but the defense is hoping science
can support bass's account they called Dr Elizabeth Johnson a forensic expert to the stand she says the Seaman could
have been deposited up to two days before Mandy's death I would say most consistent is ours
to days and probably within up to 48 hours the prosecution expert the original medical
examiner from 30 years ago Dr Gary gold Fogle disagrees he says various indicators say it was much sooner she
was raped and then was killed and deposited in the river and drowned in the river would your findings be
consistent in all regards with that hypothetical yes they would now it was time for a woman to
testify who B knew very well please have a seat you've been sworn his now ex-wife
Gina she divorced him after his arrest and his claims about his affair with Mandy I was so nervous and I was shaking
I don't even want to see his face Gina testifies that she witnessed him ask his mother to lie for him to point the
finger at his own dad he's asked her can we say Dad did it bass's father had died more than a decade earlier she put
her hands over her face and like this and and paused for a minute and then said no Tim bass's trial was turning into a
family reunion from Hell his brother Tom took the stand as you're about to go take the stand what's what's going
through your mind did you sleep the night before very little it was it was agonizing as hard
as it was I I I I knew I had to do it I'd like to direct your attention to February 24th
2015 Tom recounted that when Tim was under investigation he told Tom he had slept with Mandy decades ago and then
asked Tom to tell police he had also slept with her I guess to make it look like she got around that would be my
only you know that's probably why he said that and then he asked me again he said
you believe me right I was I didn't know what to say and Tom describes another damning
incident after Tim was arrested he said that the cops are lying everyone's out to get him he said
I need a strong Alibi or I'm going to prison he said mom maybe you can say that we
were Christmas shopping Tom do what you can despite that testimony defense attorney shashana
page has an explanation for his behavior even innocent people when they're under
that great weight of Suspicion can do things that can be interpreted as well only a guilty person would do this as
the n-day trial wraps up both sides make their final appeal to the jury it's easy
to to make the assumption that this pretty young woman would never have anything to do with Mr Bass but this is
Mr Bass Circa the late ' 80s just because somebody hadn't seen them together doesn't mean that they hadn't
been together at some point this is an investigation that based on the faulty assumption that this is a sexual assault
and it may well not have been a sexual assault this was not a situation where there was consensual sex there was no
contact between these people she was abducted she was raped and she was killed hold him
accountable the DNA was at the heart of Tim bass's trial it would now be at the heart of the jury's deliberation one of
them said teenage girls can sneak out at night maybe there was a a secret relationship M I'm
Clerk issue the [Music] verdicts 30 years of wandering 2 weeks of trial 5 hours of deliberations I was
terrified as the jury in the Mandy stavic case deliberated the hours felt like an eternity I was every Jer please
do the right thing do the right thing do the right thing they have to have 100% agreement if one person doesn't agree
they've got a hung jury and they have to start all over again and I was praying that that would not happen although no
one testified to ever seen Tim and Mandy together juror Ed Bean says they had a lot to discuss when we go in and
deliberate we had to turn into to be investigators and attorneys too and we went through everything we had posters
on the wall and maps and we went through everything just like the attorneys did juror jay van murgen maybe a quarter of
the people tied up on whether or not there might be reasonable doubt deliberations lasted a little over
a day Madam clerk issue the verdicts 29 years and six months to the day had passed since Mandy stavic was
killed would her family and friends finally get Justice we the jury find the defendant Timothy Forest bass guilty of
guilty of murder rape and kidnapping it was such a relief such a relief for you that moment
when you're seeing the family Embrace and the tears did you think this is what Justice looks like yeah at that point I
thought this is why we do what we do the harm at this caused is incalculable he has finally received
Justice and to me it can't be enough time he should never get up out 6 weeks later it was time for
sentencing my family will never be healed never be normal Mary and Molly were too emotional to speak so Molly's
husband Mike Brighton spoke for them Timothy Forest bass must never be allowed to walk the earth as a free
person never ever the defendant's mother would like to address the court then it
was the bass family's turn to speak Tim's mom Sandra bass insisted that her son never tried to blame his father for
Mandy's death that is totally false I do know my son is not guilty of this crime
then if you would like the opportunity now is the time I will convicted murderer Tim bass whose
DNA had sealed his fate spoke in court for the first time I would first like to say that I'm 100% innocent of of this
crime furthermore I don't believe I received a fair trial in saying that though a better man
in me says I should say very little today and give this day to the Staffing family unsued the judge sentence bass to
the maximum sentence nearly 27 years he couldn't get life because prosecutors did not charge him with premeditated
murder they were not sure they could convict him of that charge for 30 years you have lived free from the
responsibility for your acts but that life has been a lie and tragically it has caught your family your mother your
brother your ex-wife and your children in its web Tim says he's an innocent man what
do you say guilty as hell I lived in prison for 28 years with him and now it's his turn for Mary who
once thought she'd never see Justice bass's sentence gave her some Solace definitely close your ey feel
after all they've got the guy that did it he'll spend enough years in jail so if he ever does get out his life will be
practically over Tom Bass now wonders if his brother considered other killings possibly even Heather or Mar Lee I think
potentially more could have been his next victims you sometimes think we're lucky to be
alive yep Heather and maril Le are proud of their roles in putting Tim bass away in
the end three women's word or experiences are what took him down and I love that Kim Wagner part of that Trio
of women credits Mandy's Hometown Acme it really took a village it took a whole Community the Sheriff's
Office never gave up on [Music] Mandy we got the right guy sorry I guess the community could feel
safe and and be whole again and I'd hoped at that point the family could heal in some ways you could
be whole again too right yeah [Music] 48 hours to miss it would be a crime were you at all prepared for what
happened in this case [Music] 19-year-old Christian smart disappeared on Memorial Day weekend of
1996 for more than two decades her family friends and supporters searched for answers and for justice in October
20122 the man long suspected in her disappearance was found guilty of murder his father charged with being an
accessory after the fact was found not guilty we take you back to their arrest and how The Saga
[Music] began it's a landmark day in this very high-profile case of Louis abiso County Sheriff's Office is
set to release details about the latest developments in today is a day that many
had hoped for wished for and prayed for this is where it all began on the campus of cpala
University the last place that Kristen smart was seen alive it's my hope that we're able to take the first step toward
Justice for the smart family I grew up not far from where Kristen disappeared the billboard in the
Royal Grande is visible it's got Kristen's photo on it driving past that billboard was a periodic reminder that
oh yeah they still haven't found that girl I'm Chris Lambert I created the podcast your own backyard which focused
on The Disappearance of Kristen smart investigators say smart and two other students left the party that night
and walk back to their oncampus dormatory buildings we're here surrounded by dorms and yet nobody saw
anything it was a very dead holiday weekend A lot of people had gone home in the amount of time that they were alone
and whatever happened that her life ended I think there was plenty of opportunity to hide her body without
anybody noticing my sister turned 19 in February she disappeared in May when she disappeared I was about to
graduate at 8th grade but my parents did a really good job of shielding us I'm Stan and Denise um their wonderful
parents um a very large group of of friends went down to C Holly to help search for
her Stan was there Denise stayed back and I stayed back with her in case Kristen came home never would have
dreamed in a million years that she would not return and calpoly is a safe place you do not think of this
happening this is one of my favorites of her with this great smile that she has I
just love that it's just to me that's just that captures her remember her wanting to like travel the world and be
an architect I really miss her she should be [Music] here originally when we first took the
case I was determined I would be able to find her in 6 months if you've ever been
on one of these searches you walk up a canyon here in San Louis abiso County and then there's another Canyon off that
and you get to the end of that one there's another Canyon there's billions of places to hide a
body it's important to explain here that Kristen's case has never been declared cold a case is only considered cold when
law enforcement decides that they've exhausted all of their [Music] leads but what makes it interesting to
me is that they've had a suspect since pretty much day one hi Paul good morning I'm Jonathan Vigliotti with CBS News
were you involved in The Disappearance of Kristen smart Paul can you tell us what happened
that night between you and Christen it's important that there's an arrest made you got to move and you've
got to do it now I'm here this afternoon to announce the restr of Paul Flores for the murder of Kristen smart
[Music] [Music] after almost 25 years of Suspicion on April 13th 2021 St Louis abiso County
Sheriff Ian Parkinson announced the arrest of Paul Flores and The Disappearance of christen smart it's
been a puzzle and it's a very slow uh process to find each of those little pieces some of that information came to
light through the podcast that many of you are familiar with in the crowd taking it all in was that podcaster
Chris Lambert it's hard to take too much credit but I was one piece of the puzzle
that helped to make this all come together when it did Lambert was just 8 years old when Christian smart vanished
on her way home from a college party in St Louis abiso California I remember seeing it on the
news Kristen is a freshman at calply but hasn't been to class since before the Memorial Day weekend and Kristen smart
left a party on the calply campus it was something scary and they were talking about it pretty regularly but 22 years
later when he couldn't find any recent stories about the case he decided to do [Music]
something it's a cold and cloudy winter afternoon in San Louis abiso and I'm retracing missing calply student Kristen
Mark's last known steps even though he'd never investigated anything before Lambert
quit his job to create a podcast at least once a day I asked myself what are you doing Lambert began looking into
what happened to Kristen collecting articles and documents chasing down leads and tracking down anyone with
information I didn't know the scale I didn't know how many people were going to listen but I knew that I could try to
do a small part I Googled Kristen Smart's name every few years he never expected it would be a hit but his
podcast caught the attention of millions of listeners and sparked new interest in
this decades old unsolved case back in May 1996 Christian smart was finishing her freshman year at
California poly Technic State University better known as calpol her younger sister Lindsay says their mother urged
Kristen to go there you should go to calply they're known for being a really safe
school and it was only 250 mi from Stockton California where she grew up with Lindsay and their brother Matt her
parents Denise and Stan were both Educators who encouraged their kids' passions she was who she was because of
her parents for sure anarie Christian became friends with Kristen in elementary school her parents reminded
me of my parents just very involved with their children a very close-knit family
Kristen loves swimming and skiing but Lindsay says her sister was happiest when she was traveling she had traveled
the world before she even made it to College by herself which is pretty amazing she spent a summer in London was
an exchange student in Venezuela and a lifeguard at a camp in Hawaii she definitely like took advantage of Life
seiz the day she was super ambitious and was determined you know to find the next
adventure to find the next challenge that turned out to be College like so many freshmen Kristen struggled
classes were difficult she was trying to fit in and she missed her family Kristen broke down begging her
mother to let her drop out and go somewhere else but every Sunday when she called her parents they encouraged her
to stick it out longtime family friend Denise Pierce things were going to get better
and you know and and they did Friday May 24th 1996 was the start of the Memorial
Day weekend most students had taken off but Kristen had stayed on campus so had Margarita Campos who lived in the Next
Room in M Hall they had become close friends despite their differences I was a little bit more um
introverted and inhibited and she was like no we have to go out and we have to go like live life and she was growing as
an individual she was pushing herself out of her comfort zone and I was like no so when they were invited to a party
that Friday night Kristen was excited to go Kristen was like come on let's go let's go and I was like nah I have to
study and so she pulled me into this sort of like oh come on let's socialize and these girls are inviting us out
let's go and I was like okay fine but when we got to the house it was pretty dead too it was really it was like a
couple roommates hanging out playing video games and Kristen was like oh gosh there has to be something better than
this the two girls walked to an area off-campus where there were fraternities sororities and residential housing for
students Margarita soon decided she'd had enough you wanted to go home and you were trying to find the way to break it
to your friend that's exactly right they got to the parking lot of this apartment
complex I was like Kristen I'm going to go back home I'm going to go back to the
dorms you can go and she's like please come with me please come with me I told her I didn't I didn't want to
go Kristen did not have a purse money her ID or even her keys so before leaving Margarita handed over her keys
to get back into M Hall she was absolutely so for when I left her I'll never forget her Shadow against the
building this apartment complex just standing like kind of cross armed with a long leg and she was just kind of like
looking at me like you're really walking away now like you're really you're leaving the next morning Margarita
waited to hear from Kristen I was expecting her to knock on my door and be like Oh Margarita you missed a rager and
here's your key I knocked on her door and I thought she was just sleeping or she went out
and about you know it wasn't until Christine's roommate returned to their dorm room that Margarita realized
Kristen never came home how did you know she hadn't been back uh nothing had moved all of Kristen's personal
belongings including her purse her money her ID were in the room exactly where she had left them I mean she was gone
she was gone by the time they called the cowp H campus police Kristen had been missing for more than 48 hours but
Margarita says the police did not seem concerned the campus police they were like are you sure she didn't go out of
town it's like she has nothing on her how could she have gone out of town they thought she was off possibly having fun
M oh yeah but they could not have been more wrong to this day like I was like why why did I
just Let Her Go by herself I did have guilt about that but uh you have to understand she's a really independent
free [Music] spirit Kristen's mother Denise smart spent Memorial Day weekend at a swimm
with her two younger kids she was looking forward to hearing from Kristen that Sunday
and that phone call never comes the phone call never comes instead on Monday May 27th Denise Pier says the smarts got
a call from cp's campus police asking if Kristen was with them Kristen hasn't come home and we're not sure where she
is we don't know anything that's when Denise smart learned her daughter had not been seen all weekend and all her
belongings were still in her dorm room she was becoming more and more alarm you know she was she was frantic I don't
understand this you know what's going on it is every parents worst nightmare the
smarts say they tried to file a missing person's Report with the local police but we told it was too early and the FBI
told them calpol police were in charge but as Chris Lambert learned the campus police did not act right away at that
point I don't think they had ever dealt with a missing person a possibly murdered
person by the time the Cal Hol police began investigating Kristen had been gone for 4 days as they soon learned she
had ended up at a party at this house it's mostly frat guys from the kakai fraternity I don't know if Kristen knew
anybody there Chris Lambert who worked as a CBS News consultant pieced together what he learned from people who were
there that night Kristen became incredibly intoxicated whether she was drugged or whether she just had a lot to
drink in a short amount of time she ends up passed out on the lawn next door Lambert says Christen could
not stand on her own so fellow student Cheryl Anderson who was also at the party began helping her back to campus
they were soon joined by another party goer Paul Flores as they describe it Paul Flores
just sort of appears as out of nowhere and offers to help he gets his arm around her torso and her arm around his
neck and he's helping her walk Paul keeps stopping along the way and letting Cheryl Anderson know you can
go on ahead I've got her it's fine she didn't think that was okay so she slowed down and walked with them when they
reached the turnoff to Cheryl's dorm she says Flores tried to hug and kiss her she left them only after he promised to
take her Christ back to her dorm I don't think she ever imagined that Kristen would end up dead by the end of the
night Paul and Kristen then make their way here what happens next so if you believe Paul's story he goes into his
dorm room here and he leaves her to walk up this walkway her dorm entrance is right over here I personally think that
wherever Kristen went Paul was there with her I don't think that she went back to her dorm at all whatever
happened in those early hours one thing is indisputable Christian smart has never been seen
again she had just 40 yards to go and yet she vanished that's the upsetting part about it isn't it the
investigation seemed to be hampered from the start by a series of missteps by campus police beginning with their
assumption that Christen was off having fun and ignoring worried friends who said she was missing
so much was lost in those first few days where if that very first phone call was
taken seriously answers might have been uncovered the first week they also did not focus on Paul Flores immediately
waiting 6 days to formally interview him even worse they never sealed his dorm room there was a lot of evidence that
could have been gathered that wasn't why I wish I knew why they did an interview
with the calpoly Mustang daily and explained that they didn't think there was any evidence that a crime had taken
place by the time they inspected flores's room Kristen had been gone for 16 days school was over so campus police
found an empty room that had been sanitized by the University's cleaning crew any evidence that might have been
there was long gone the investigation was completely botched by the campus police there's no question about it and
while they did not rush to investigate fles christen's family says campus police were very quick to judge her just
days after she disappeared an incident report seemed to imply that Kristen's Behavior contributed to her
disappearance there was a lot of focus on how Kristen was drinking what sounded a lot like victim shaming right 100%
that was happening the report said smart does not have any close friends at calply smart appeared to be under the
influence of alcohol on Friday night smart was talking with and socializing with several different males at the
party but while campus police weren't doing much Kristen's parents were doing whatever they could to find their
daughter Kristen's father would come down and Hike every Trail he could find on the Central Coast he'd go anywhere
he'd go through tunnels under bridges looking for his daughter and expecting best case scenario he's going to find
her body which is awful for a parent early on a small group of volunteers also looked for Kristen but a
massive search did not happen until she'd been gone for more than a month that's when the campus police finally
handed the investigation over to the St Louis abiso sheriff's office but they did not find
[Music] Kristen 4 months after that feudal search Paul Flores was brought before a
grand jury little is known since the proceedings are kept secret but no charges were ever filed just Weeks Later
christen's frustrated parents contacted James Murphy a local civil attorney it was just a sad phone call to have
somebody say our daughter disappeared and we think she's the victim of Foul Play and we'd like to pursue the guy
that we think is responsible Murphy and his wife Garen Sinclair agreed to take the case pro
bono promising to go after Paul Flores and put pressure on the Sheriff's Office Murphy immediately filed a
wrongful death lawsuit against Flores in civil court and it says wrongful death and then I put murder putting murder on
the lawsuit was sending a message to Paul Flores and his family that we believe that he killed Kristen and that
we coming for him but trying to get him hasn't and easy it just amazes me the amount of evidence that's available yet
nothing has happened the day after my sister disappeared Paul Flores had a black eye
and scratches on him [Music] [Music] you look at Kristen smart every day every day the Smart's Attorney James
Murphy and his wife and office manager Garen Sinclair have had Kristen's billboard in their front yard since late
1997 it's just a motivator for me I will go outside at nighttime and I'll look up
at the full moon and I'll think that that kid's buried somewhere real close Murphy and Sinclair promised the smarts
the billboard will stay until their daughter is found I'd love to do anything to end their suffering and that
weighs on you yep is there any doubt in your mind that Paul Flores is responsible for The
Disappearance of Kristen smart no no and Murphy and Sinclair believe they can prove it they were not able to proceed
with this civil case while there was an ongoing criminal investigation but that did not stop them from
following every lead and preparing for an eventual trial there has been no other suspect
every piece of evidence points directly at Paul Flores like his black eye you can see it
faintly in this mug shot taken by the a royal grande police just by chance 2 days after Kristen vanished at the time
they did not know about a missing college student they were after Paul Flores for an outstanding DUI warrant
having a black eye doesn't make you guilty of anything but if the person you were with disappeared from the planet
that's physical evidence Chris Lambert says two days after that when Flores was interviewed by campus police they asked
how he got his black eye as well as scratches on his hands and knees and he says he got a black eye playing
basketball with his friends but one of those friends told told police Flores already had the black eye when he
arrived he told those friends he just woke up with the black eye when authorities later confronted him with
the two stories Flores admitted lying and offered a new explanation he actually hit his eye on
his steering wheel in the middle of the night while changing his stereo so now you've got three different stories about
how he got that black eye he lied to the police about everything Flores claimed after walking Christian back from the
party he went to his room in Santa Lucia Hall while she walked alone to her dorm
but kadaver dogs told a different story just days after taking over the investigation the St Louis abiso
Sheriff's Office brought several dogs like these trained to detect human remains to the calpoly dorms they
brought in the first dog and they had the dog go through the dorms there was no reaction until the dog reached Paul
flores's room they let the dog in the dog makes a beine to the bed of Paul Flores remember flores's room had been
emptied and thoroughly cleaned but remarkably the same thing happened with three more
dogs that suggests that something bad happened in Paul flores's dorm room the Sheriff's Office office still wasn't
convinced they had enough evidence against Flores but Murphy says there were other incidents that should have
raised alarm Bells about him with law enforcement from the very beginning Paul Flores had a reputation amongst the
girls that knew him at calpo as being a creeper that he was always trying to hit
on women in fact Cheryl Anderson who trusted Flores to walk Kristen back to her dorm alone told police that her
friends called him Chester the Molester because he was known for groping girls so with Cheryl's account alone we
have an unsettling picture of Paul just 5 months before Christen disappeared Stan Louis abiso Police
received a call from a student living off campus there was a man climbing her trellis and trying to get inside her
balcony very intoxicated and refusing to leave when they showed up it was Paul Flores no charges were filed but Lambert
discovered flores's troubles started at a young age in high school he was known as a loner Chris Lambert spoke with some
women who knew Flores back then they asked him not to use their names well his nickname was scary Paul you wouldn't
want to be alone in a room with them you wouldn't let any of your friends be drunk around him those were kind of
unspoken things and they told Lambert they weren't surprised when they heard about flores's connection to Kristen's
disappearance I wasn't surprised but there's also that shock value of kind of oh my God I knew it although suspicions
surrounded Flores almost from the beginning any hopes for an arrest were dashed in May
1997 when then Sheriff Ed Williams made an admission to the St Louis abiso Telegraph quote we need Paul Flores to
tell us what happened to Kristen smart so absent something from Mr Flores I don't see us completing this case how
significant was that I think that might have been the biggest misstep that investigators have made to this day
to declare to the public if you stay quiet you will get away with this and six months later when Flores was deposed
by James Murphy for the smarts civil suit he kept quiet would you state your full name for the record please Paul
Ruben Flores the only thing he would confirm on tape is that his name is Paul Flores what is your present resident
address on the advice of my attorney I refused to answer that question based on the Fifth Amendment of the United States
Constitution everything else he took the Fifth Amendment he wouldn't answer a single thing in May of 96 were you a
student at calp on the advice of my attorney he invoked the fifth 27 times what is the
name of your father on theice of my and it worked you just don't talk and you get away with
it Flores wasn't talking but was there evidence possibly placing Kristen smart at his mother's home somebody found an
earring that they say was Kristen Smart's jewelry in the driveway an earring that appeared to
match the necklace Kristen is wearing on this billboard [Applause] when Christen smart disappeared Paul
flores's parents Susan and Reuben were separated and living apart 4 months later while attempting to reconcile
Susan rented out her house in a Royal Grande a young couple moves into it with their kid the mother is washing her car
in the driveway at one point something shiny catches her eye next to the front driver side Tire a single woman's
earring that mother Mary Lasser described it to Chris Lambert it was like a red thing and it was like a
smudged like fingerprint look on the back just red like Maroon like old looking and a smudge that it was like a
half a fingerprint it was turned over to a detective with the S Louis abiso sheriff's office but Garen Sinclair says
the smarts never knew it existed until until the lers were deposed in January 1997 he never once turned to the smart
family and said hey we have an earring we'd like to show it to you to see if it matches any of your daughter's
jewelry the smarts then demanded to see it and that's when they're told that earring has been misplaced misplaced it
was never marked as evidence apparently but Mary Lasher says the earring matched
the necklace Kristen is seen wearing on this billboard if it was in fact a piece of jewelry
that matched Kristen's jewelry it would have been Blockbuster evidence and might
have connected Kristen to Susan flores's house says James Murphy there's no way to get evidence back once you'd lost
it another frustration for the smarts at the time Kristen disappeared investigators weren't aware that Paul
flores's parents were separated and living apart so they did not immediately get a warrant to search Susan flores's
home even more difficult to understand was why they waited 2 months to search this house the family home where Paul
Flores was living with his father Reuben and when they did they didn't bring cadav dogs with them they didn't bring a
forensics team they didn't look at the Flores family's Vehicles they might have found evidence in those
Vehicles Paul Flores did did not have a car on campus so Murphy surmises he had to have had help and it's 2:30 and 3:00
in the morning at Cal Paul this is not a location from which Paul alone could easily move a body without a vehicle but
further investigation of the flores's two trucks seemed impossible and the months after Kristen's disappearance one
truck was traded in the other was reported stolen but it's Susan flores's concrete
backyard that initially received a lot of attention it had been the focus of widespread speculation for more than two
decades especially her planter boxes around the time Kristen disappeared they cut out planter boxes in the backyard so
they cut out big chunks of concrete and filled it in with soil in one of Paul's police interviews he mentioned that he
wanted to be let out of the interview because he needed to help clean up concrete at his mom's house so what was
being done in Susan flores's backyard in the weeks after Kristen went missing Susan's house was finally searched in
March 1997 9 months after Kristen disappeared but nothing was found it would be three more years
before the property was searched again at 8 a.m. on June 19th 2000 a team of Sheriff's investigators knocks on the
front door of Susan flores's East Branch Street home with them is a group of FBI
evidence response team members and a search warrant that warrant allowed them to dig up the backyard but deputies
chose not to excavate Denise Pierce says that was a crushing blow for the smart family to be almost there to think that
you know you're going to finally get some resolution and then you know it doesn't happen the way it's supposed to
devastating and there would be more disappointment in 2007 after the Smart's legal team searched a small portion of
Susan flores's backyard with ground penetrating radar and did not find any evidence they just have never given up
and are never going to give up on their daughter Ruben Flores and his estrange wife Susan have always denied any role
in Christian Smart's disappearance and do you have any information as to where Kristen Smart's body is located
of course not do your husband have any information as to where Kristen Smart's body is located no when they were
deposed by James Murphy they also insisted their son was not involved does your son have any information as to
where Kristen Smart's body is located nope has your son ever told you that he did not kill Kristen smart
we never asked that question we just do you know anything about it he says no through the years the smarts have
kept pressure on the flues family but the flores's have fought back suing the smarts for intentional infliction of
emotional distress like the smarts civil case theirs was also on hold in the meantime Paul Flores moved
to Southern California where he's bounced from job to job but as Chris Lambert learned flores's pattern of
behavior with women didn't stop a couple times I would take a moment he would just oh come on just give me a kiss just
give me a kiss Paul Flores may have wanted a fresh start in Southern California but Chris
Lambert says he could not seem to break old habits Paul worked with a number of women that he made incredibly
uncomfortable girls who he tried to make a pass at sexually um girls that he tried to force to kiss him some of those
women who did not want their real names used told Lambert about their encounters
with him so I walk him up to his sister's apartment and all of a sudden he just like picked me up carried me
inside turned around and shut the apartment door and locked it so I said you better turn some lights on right now
and let me out or I'm going to scream So eventually he unlocked you know the apartment door and I left Lambert also
interviewed a woman who dated Flores until she says he became physically and verbally abusive and he had like a
butter knife and he like held it to my neck and I was screaming and my roommate actually kicked down the door to make
him stop but Paul Flores was never charged with any of these incidents back in San Louis abiso the
smarts feeling ignored by the Sheriff's Office continued a Relentless campaign to get them to do more to find their
daughter what toll over time did this have on your parents I think they're like carrying Boulders on their back
then in 2011 Ian Parkinson was elected Sheriff if you were making a film about a new law enforcer who's coming to a
small town to save the day you'd probably cast Parkinson he promised the smarts that
solving Kristen's case would be a priority I committed to them that I was going to go back to the beginning and
reexamine every piece of evidence that we had but Parkinson acknowledges it hasn't been easy there was early
mistakes made that you can't recover from when you're missing those vital pieces is this a case that takes a
miracle to solve I hope not since Parkinson came on the scene investigators have dug up hillsides
searched the homes and properties of all the flores's collected evidence seized Paul
flores' computers monitored his cell phone and text messages and found new Witnesses some with the help of Chris
Lambert I brought them a number of witnesses that they were very interested in I also brought them witnesses that
they had no interest in whatsoever and then months and months later they'd reach back out and say can you get us in
touch with this person again in April 2021 investigators finally put the pieces of the puzzle together and
decided they had enough to charge the then 44-year-old Paul Flores with christen's murder and his then
80-year-old father as being an accessory after the fact the allegation against Reuben is that he helped to conceal
Kristen's body after the murder was committed s Louis abiso County district attorney Dan da we don't have evidence
sufficient to charge anyone else at this time but the investigation is ongoing and for the first time clues about what
may have happened to Kristen smart forensic physical evidence was located and yes we believe it's it's linked to
Christen um and yes we did find physical evidence at at least two homes like what
may have been discovered in March 2021 when investigators searched Reuben flores's house using daver doogs and
ground penetrating radar they did a significant amount of digging underneath the house they took in soil I assume for
some kind of analysis according to a County Probation bail report obtained by the Stan Louis abiso Tribune biological
evidence was found under Ruben's deck the question for decades was well where did the body go Murphy has filed an
additional civil suit against Ruben Flores and others for the intentional inflict of emotional distress and the
complaint has some claims about what led investigators to focus under Ruben's deck in the first place the podcast is
out people are watching Ruben Flores and Susan Flores and Paul Flores suddenly major pieces of evidence came forward an
important tip came in after a February 2020 search of Paul Susan and Ruben's property
Murphy alleges four nights later strange activity was seen at Reuben's house and
I witnessed actually documented the fact that throughout the night there was activity in the area of
the underside of that deck I'm not at Liberty to describe how it was documented but I've seen
it that witness initially came forward to Chris Lambert who passed the information to the Sheriff's Office
and Murphy in his complaint Murphy alleges along with Reuben there were two other unnamed individuals but he says
they are Ruben's ex-wife Susan and her boyfriend so why would Susan Flores her boyriend and and Reuben Flores be up all
night long working under that deck the lawsuit claims they were moving Kristen's Remains the location where all
this activ occurred is where they found the biological materials and the body's not
there now and there are more horrifying allegations about what may have happened
to Kristen after she was last seen with Paul Flores it is alleged that Mr Flor has caused the death of Kristen smart
while in the commission of or attempted rape because of the statute of limitations Dao says Paul Flores cannot
be charged with rape but the allegation that he was committing or attempting to commit a
rape when he killed her is the basis for which we are able to file first-degree felony murder charges authorities made
clear that they plan to use flores's alleged predatory behavior against him we intend to use evidence of other
sexual crimes in this prosecution to prove uh the facts necessary for the attempted rape in this case and
according to that probation report dozens of women have recounted Paul flores's sexual assaults and predatory
behavior that document his 25 years as a serial rapist he has not been charged in
those incidents we have evidence that we do believe there are other people that are not yet identified that have had a
some kind of a criminal act perpetrated on them by Mr Flores 48 Hours has learned these suspicions center around
evidence found during that 2020 search of Paul flores's home sources tell us investigators discovered photographs and
videos on flores's computer showing him engaged in sexual activity with at least
10 different women apparently in various States Of Consciousness Paul Flores and his father
both pleaded not guilty to all charges at their arraignment Ruben's attorney Harold Messi dismissed the evidence
against his client as quote so minimal as to shock the conscience he later argued that the biological
evidence found under the deck was not conclusively human blood and DNA evidence could not be found linking any
other evidence to Christen Susan Flores and her boyfriend were never charged in the case Reuben Flores was released on
$50,000 bail to his ex-wife he was required to wear an electronic ankle bracelet but Paul Flores remained Behind
Bars without bail to see them in custody was a feeling of great joy for me my job
was to hunt them and that's what I've been doing for a long long time along with a lot of
other people that's been our goal it is also what the smarts have been waiting for for more than a quarter
of a [Music] century Chris Lambert says they're cautiously optimistic they're hopeful
but they've also been let down so many times before I think they are just waiting to see what the outcome is going
to be they're interested in seeing Paul Flores get convicted and Ruben Flores get held
[Music] accountable most importantly they want to find their daughter [Music] 48 Hours don't miss an episode
[Music] it was a complete mystery this is a shocking crime you know the kind of shooting that you would
think you'd only see in the movies you could even call it a coldblooded Ambush I'm herela arawi her arawi I'm a
reporter with CBS Los Angeles this happened in the mountains east of LA way up in the
mountains this guy dressed as a delivery man goes up to this home he knocks on the door when the guy who's supposed to
take the package comes to the door he pulls out a gun and he shoots three or four
times we then learned that the victim was a lawyer his name was Mark angelucci angelucci died right there at
the scene I couldn't stop thinking about Mark I would would wake up in tears with
my pillow already soaked just knowing that I now live in a world without Mark I'll never see him
again I'm Cassie J and I'm a dear friend of Mark angelucci he was just a Down to Earth at
the center of his soul a good-hearted person did your mind start racing about who could have done this I didn't want
to jump to any conclusion that this was planned cuz it was Mark it was everyone loved
Mark just 8 days after Mark angelucci was murdered another crime took place about 2,800 miles away in Suburban New
Jersey it seemed like an exact copy The Delivery Man the gunshots I was notified that a shooting
had occurred at a federal judge's residence New Jersey I'm Joe denan FBI New York field office police telling us
that that gunman was dressed up as a delivery man when he rang the doorbell here at their home right here behind me
when want to hurt the judge or who would want to hurt someone in her family her College age son sustained a gunshot
wound to the chest I get a call from one of my friends he's like there's an article that Dan was shot go to Google
right now so I go to Google and sure enough there's article after article after article just descri describing
what's happening nothing inside of me believed it because I couldn't get over the fact I'd seen him 5 hours before
there's no way this is happening every article was saying that Dan had passed away at the scene there was one that had
said no like he's in the hospital he's in bad shape but he's alive and that was the article that everyone was clinging
to Like There's Hope what ended up happening was a man had come to their door to drop off a package
that man was not a FedEx employee that was a very bad man two heinous but similar crimes on
opposite sides of the country were they connected we did not have the subject in
Pocket we had no idea who it was you know you have a violent and unstable person so we were aggressively preparing
for that possible confrontation [Music] [Music] [Music] documentary filmmaker Cassie Jay still
has a hard time grasping that her close friend Mark angelucci is dead we almost had a kind of brother sisterly love for
each other and respect and he was my biggest protector and also my biggest [Music]
cheerleader angelucci had been living in Cedar Pines Park California a sleepy little village here in the San berino
Mountains east of Los Angeles it was broad daylight when he came to his door to sign for that package on
July 11th 2020 the 52-year-old attorney never had a chance he was shot Point [Music]
Blank this looked like a targeted assassination herela aragi reported the story for CBS 2 Los Angeles cuz it was
actually someone else who answered the door but the delivery man insisted that Angelou she sign for the package
detectives would learn that the shooter had used a 380 caliber handgun but had precious few clues about his identity he
got away in a white car before anyone could stop him it was at the time a complete mystery to everyone the
detectives couldn't tell us much the sheriff's department didn't have much either Cassie was nearly 500 mil away at
her home in Marin County tell tell us about Mark who was markk angelucci oh if you could think of the most humble
sincere fun that was Mark and all of his friends will tell you that Mark was popular and photos he
posted online show his Spirit but he never married nor had any children a sought after attorney his
passion was his work so when you say prominent attorney I picture fancy suit nice car big house was that Mark not at
all I mean he couldn't be more opposite than that he had a beat up car old gar uh he was not a materialistic person by
any means and he had a rare and controversial specialty gender discrimination against men he often
spoke at conferences I believe we need to hold people accountable for false accusations and not just talk about it I
met Mark when I went to interview him for my feature documentary The Red Pill which is about the men's rights
movement and at the time I was very skeptical I had been working on films about women's issues uh my entire adult
life why do you think men's issues have been ignored for so long I think there are number of reasons I mean one of them
is simply that men are conditioned not to complain as much especially if it's about a gender issue Mark was not making
a case for male Supremacy she says what's more he was not like the men she met who came to the men's rights
movement after going through a bitter divorce or custody battle and so it was more of
a uh fight for justice in his eyes that we should all be treated equally domestic violence you're starting you're
seeing more and more awareness about male victims and false accusations father's custody rights I think it's
it's all a very slow process but we are seeing awareness Mark won Cassie over not only as an advocate but as a human
being and in the few hours long interview with him I just adored him by the end of it
he was just so engaging of all men's rights activists I met he was really a unique character so he didn't hate women
oh no no no no Mark Mark was strictly about fairness Justice equality no matter their gender he was
there to stand up for the underdog and since those so-called underdogs were often underfunded she says a lot of his
work was pro bono and he did most of that work for free yes I know it's really shocking and kind of hard to
believe but he wasn't motivated by money when cass's film was finished she kept talking with Mark he would just ramble
on and on and on and about everything that he had worked on but then he would also want to ask me everything about my
life and we could just talk for Endless hours he was curious about you too it wasn't all about him oh yeah he was one
of her most cherished Friends by the time she got married in 2018 he made the six or seven hour drive
in my eyes he just had to be there I mean he was really became a part of my family he he really was a big part of my
life now that someone took his life Cassie wanted to know why I mean immediately I kind of went
into detective mode I was trying to make sense of who could do something so awful
to mark of all people he didn't have any enemies as far as you knew exactly and and I I really wanted to
hold space for it just being this fluke maybe even accidental murder but she did
wonder if Mark's Work made him a Target I started digging into the different cases that he was involved in I realized
that he was defending defenseless people in difficult situations innocent people
without a lot of money who were going up against very powerful people with a lot of money
police said the motive was unknown and hoped someone would come forward with a tip this was a strange crime they knew
that a killer was out there they didn't know who they didn't know why they did have a well-founded fear
that the killer would strike again and sure enough far away a nearly identical crime was about to take place police are
still here at the scene they have had this entire Street blocked off my whole body gave out I was like
this isn't happening and I was like no like this this can't be true nearly 3,000 M away from the
California town where Mark angelucci was murdered a family of a well-respected judge in Suburban New Jersey was about
to be blindsided by another vicious attack do you confirm that the oath you're about to take Esther Salis was
the state's first Latina federal judge I took an oath and I stand by that oath I
follow the law when she testified at her Senate nomination Hearing in 2011 her family was at her side here is my
husband Mark anderl uh my son Daniel who's uh really excited and he wanted me to make sure that that that Madam Madam
chairwoman that you knew that he got permission from his principal to be here Mary Louise Daniel their only child was
just 10 at the time I can tell he's very proud of you he has a big smile on US federal judge sales's life story is
inspiring she was raised with four siblings by an immigrant mother in a small apartment at age 10 she rescued
the family cat from a fire that left them homeless through it all she diligently pursued her education and she
was a law intern when she fell in love with attorney Mark Andre he's highly energetic easily distracted
hardworking um and a lot of fun to work with David Oakley Mark's law partner is a close family friend there's only three
of them and they were so close-knit and so affectionate Mark had a demanding workload and his wife often handled
hundreds of criminal and civil cases simultaneously but they both always had time for Daniel who shared his father's
passion for sports Dan and is on in relief Joe Augustine coached Daniel in baseball for 10 years Dan was the
ultimate [Applause] teammate he always came prepared he always came with energy and his talent was promising but
after graduating high school Daniel chose not to participate in college sports he was committed to following in his
parents' footsteps he made a very conscious decision to focus on his studies he definitely decided to try to
Aspire to law school in 2018 he went off to the Catholic University of America in
Washington DC his parents remained as involved in his life as ever I have never met a kid who speaks more highly
of his parents he his mom and his dad were his best friends in the world and he would let you know that classmates
cat Haley and Sarah Peterson say Daniel was a friend they could count on there was a bug in our room at 2: in the
morning and we were terrified we were like Dan get over here right now he hops on his electric skateboard and is over
within 30 seconds in his pajamas ready to kill the bug and then he was like okay anything
else we literally have a video of him dancing in the rain and if that doesn't like explain his character I don't know
what does [Laughter] College continued to be a blast in New York City the virus is spreading so fast
but then came March 2020 and Co people are concerned there will not be enough resources to fight the disease we went
home for spring break and then they made the announcement you're not coming back
it was weird going from seeing someone every single day to just all of a sudden just nothing that summer as Daniel's
20th birthday neared he was sorely missing his friends his parents worried about the pandemic but felt if everyone
adhered to guidelines those friends could come visit for the weekend it was really awesome really
nice Matthew Ziggler one of Daniel's best friends arrived like the others on Friday July 17th we were just hanging
out outside mostly it was very nice out I'm and his parents were actually catering dinner for us there
picture of federal judge and obviously she's very professional but she's very friendly we were chatting about boys and
about what I wanted to do in the future she really took us under her wing for a couple Blissful days there were no signs
of trouble we were just so happy to all finally see each other it was incredible
and when they bid Daniel goodbye that Sunday they had no inkling how Bittersweet those moments would become
and he was like all right love you I said love you too and that was kind of the last conversation uh we ended up
having all he kept saying that weekend was this is the best weekend of my life hours later judge Salis says she and
Daniel were still riding high as they cleaned up the basement the weekend was a glorious one
she would later release this video telling what happened next and we were chatting as we always
do and Daniel said Mom let's keep talking I love talking to you Mom and it was that exact moment that
the doorbell rang upstairs Mark peered out to see a man holding a package we saw some FedEx
guy thought it was odd it was Sunday but then again Esther got a lot of fedexes because you know Co and the courts being
shut down and Daniel looked at me and said who is that and before I could say a word he sprinted upstairs Daniel came
springing up the stair from the basement and open the door within seconds I heard the sound of bullets and
someone screaming no [Music] [Music] as we were rolling out to the location I certainly had a feeling that we were in
Uncharted Territory here on July 19th 2020 FBI Incident Commander Joe denahan was sent on an urgent call there was a
shooting at judge Esther Sal's home in New Jersey the details were daunting an individual had rang the doorbell had
asked asked Danny judge Sal's son to go get judge Sal so she could sign for an envelope a delivery um and at that point
a shooting began almost immediately right there in the foyer of their house just a few inches in from the front door
by the time Esther Salas got upstairs from the basement the shooter was gone Mark her husband of 25 years had
been shot three times and was critically injured their son was shot in the chest
they watched his life fade away my family has experienced a pain that no one should
ever have to endure as Mark was rushed to the hospital investigators got to work I
think terrorism is always something we consider immediately it was certainly at the Forefront of our mind we just didn't
know if it was something that was an organized group or a single lone offender a lone offender might be
someone who held a grudge against one of Daniel's parents parents it is still unclear if judge Salis was the intended
target or her husband we had several people who had made uh either derogatory or borderline threatening comments to
the judge and we began to do profile workups on all those individuals Mark had briefly seen the shooter but could
not describe him well he described as best he could he sustained a very very serious gunshot wound to the abdomen he
was alive he said because of his son as he told his friend David Oakley Daniel died a hero he said he remember Daniel
raising his arms um and getting shot and falling back Daniel being Daniel protected his
father and he took the shooters first bullet directly to the chest judge Salis and Mark Ander were
left with an unbearable loss they'd lived through four heartbreaking miscarriages and called Daniel their
miracle baby he was the center of their Universe while my husband is still in the hospital recovering from his
multiple surgeries we are living every parents's worst nightmare making preparations to bury bury our only child
Daniel he was also mourned by his friends initial reaction was kind of just sitting in my family room with my
family and just praying um it was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to go through still going
through it's horrible I can't even imagine who would do this and who would want to do this to
such an innocent kid investigators were anxious to find out within a day the case was in high
gear police are still searching for the gunman who got away with multiple federal and state agencies conducting
investigations at the same time 150 Mi away on a remote Road in New York State's Catskill Mountains another case
was just beginning Reagan Road is a dead end Road in a a very rural section of Northern Sullivan County State Police
police captain Brian Webster says his Troopers responded to a call and found a dead man with a bullet in his
head his body lay in the grass near an unoccupied car he had a wallet with photo identification on him the dead man
was Roy Den Hollander a 72-year-old attorney who lived in New York City it didn't ring any any bells I didn't know
the name who killed this outof town lawyer and why here [Music] murders are rare in this area and if
that's what this was the cops had their work cut out for them but the evidence at the scene pointed to something else
there's a Walther semi-automatic pistol located in in very close proximity to the deceased subject there it appeared
that he had a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the Head suicide is something that we handle all the time and one
particular item in the car was alarming they had found a FedEx envelope that was
addressed to judge Esther Salis in New Jersey and the investigator who actually finds the envelope uh was familiar with
recent news reporting he had known that Esther Salis was a federal judge whose son was recently murdered Chopper 2
shows investigators swarming the scene Webster immediately reported the apparent suicide to the FBI he had used
a 380 caliber handgun and the 380 was the same caliber that was used at the judge's home as unexpected as this was
the evidence seemed clear Roy Dan Hollander shot Mark and Daniel Andel then drove to Upstate New York and took
his own life he was unusual in this in a certain sense you know being 72 years old Highly Educated attorney member of
the bar but when police began looking through other items in his car they discovered even more evidence that the
now dead New York attorney was a killer they found an address a residence in a small village in the mountains east
of Los Angeles when we ran the address through we realized that there was a murder that had occurred at that
address that murder victim was Mark angelucci the California attorney gunned down by his front door just 8 days
before the attack in New Jersey the details were chillingly familiar he had to sign for a package when the victim
arrived the front door he was shot with a 38 caliber handgun the California detectives had been styed now Roy Dan
Hollander appeared to be responsible for that crime too it was a mystery for San
bero County Sheriff's Office they had uh no subjects at the time but they were actively working it and they partnered
well with us so working closely with them um I think we're able to piece together a lot of the puzzle Dan
Hollander did have the opportunity investigators learned that in early July he had Tak a cross country train
trip to Los Angeles here at Union train station in downtown Los Angeles Den Hollander
walked right through those doors he was caught on surveillance camera here's the
picture authorities match this photo with another image taken at another train station Just 4 days earlier in San
Bernardino east of Los Angeles investigators say that's Dan Hollander wearing a mask and calmly carrying a cup
of coffee that train station was just 20 m from angelucci home the timeline fit after the murder as California
detectives searched for Clues Dan Hollander was on his way back East ultimately to judge sales's home it's
terrifying to think that there are people out there who are capable of these sorts of of crimes FBI
investigators were convinced that Roy Dan Hollander committed both of these crimes but they had no motive and they
didn't know why he chose these victims who lived so far apart there was a lot to learn about the coldblooded killer
and his troubled past that included a stint in Moscow a Russian model even a televised Street brawl
leave the guy alone oh my God [Music] the FBI believed that the three incidents were linked the murder of a
san berardino county attorney is connected to a deadly shooting at a federal judge's home in New Jersey two
harrowing crimes Mark angelucci was killed 2,800 M apart what caused a man to open fire inside a federal judge's
home in New Jersey and one suicide Roy Den Hollander discovered dead in his C today on a far away Dead End Road
a multi-state homicide investigation is not something that that we deal with very
often after attorney Roy Dan Hollander took his own life the agents later found a lengthy online manuscript he left
behind part Memoir part Manifesto we were dealing with an unstable person who I think is fair to say was a coward he
was a ticking Time Bomb hiding in plain sight but he had once had a successful career care Roy was a very
personable articulate affable guy Joe Serio met Den Hollander in Moscow it was 1999 and siio worked for
an American consulting firm there overseeing its investigations Dan Hollander was a new hire he had bit of
Charisma about him Dan Hollander had an impressive resume he once worked for a dig just law firm and had earned an Ivy
League MBA this is a guy who apparently is successful and he's in good shape even so something seemed off he also
dyed his hair and he have nothing against dying hair but he told us why why because he could pick up Babes
easier that way babes that the word he used a lot and my idea of what a 50-year-old is and how they should be
quote unquote conduct ing themselves it wasn't matching up Dan Hollander wasted no time hitting
Russian bars and clubs it was an obsession it was he he was fixated on women and going out and chatting up
women dancing with women picking up women Serio whose new book is titled vodka hookers and the Russian mafia my
life in Moscow recognized the risk at the time Russia was in the throws of political and economic upheaval I've
been here for 10 years you just parachuted in I know what happens to foreigners who go chasing women what
happens to them they get drugged they get robbed every once in a while they got killed in this case that didn't
happen Den Hollander stayed in Russia for a year married a 24-year-old woman named Alina and moved back to the states
with her what did he tell you about her he talked about her body she was a model
apparently or Model status you know that kind of a body that kind of attractiveness these photos of Alina
were on Den hollander's website the union was contentious and short-lived they filed for divorce both
claiming cruel treatment in his Memoir Dan Hollander rips into his ex-wife calling her a poison dragon one of the
themes that we saw was he was a very angry person and he was a misogynist and he blamed women for the failures of his
life it would take about this much paper 2,000 pages to print Dan hollander's entire manuscript it's largely a
hate-filled diet tribe against females starting with his mother and extending to women in positions of power let me
read you just a couple lines from it as for that most virulent form of female evil the feminazis I despise them
despise them for for the harm they've intentionally done to Men He vows to fight them until his last breath when I
was reading his his Manifesto I was imagining a person walking into a pool and he's walking into this pool his
whole life after his divorce Dan Hollander began filing a flurry of lawsuits aimed to eliminate what he saw
as female privilege most notably ladies nights at bars the person who might be taken advantage of is me girls have
power they've always had power let's go dance somebody argued ladies nights and bars is a benefit to men so why in God's
name are you trying to get rid of that but he saw it as he saw it as just another way
those are cutting out the legs from underneath men the self-described anti-feminist lawyer became a go-to guy
for provocative media stories you're Ang very angry eats more oh absolutely but only against the feminist all right it's
obvious to everyone outside of him that none of this makes him look good he's losing cases he's losing
decisions and sometimes he lost his composure as seen here when he was shooting a profile with a French TV crew
and took his anger to the street leave guy oh my God but do you think there was also a part of him that
realized people were laughing at him or at least rolling their eyes at him I don't know how he could not have seen it
the last time you went out whose car was it who paid for the taxi who paid for the dinner and then look back my sh tabs
in my in my time in my life thank you very much well what are you doing tonight then Den Hollander wrote that he
was diagnosed with a deadly form of melanoma in 2018 he berated his doctors and continued his
rants in July 20120 his rage turned deadly why did he go after Mark angelucci in Roy's mind Mark was guilty
of encroaching on Roy's territory Angeli's hard work had been paying off he had made some progress in court with
male discrimination cases involving the all male military draft Mark didn't even
realize that he was in danger that this guy had a grudge I don't think so Cassie
J didn't realize it either although she'd spent considerable time researching men's rights had you ever
heard of this guy Roy Dan Hollander no I've never heard of him he's never come across my radar he wasn't embraced by
the men's rights movement no one referred him to me as for Esther Salis investigators
believe she was targeted because Den Hollander blamed her wrongly for slowing down one of his lawsuits in spewing
hate-filled words he called her a quote lazy and incompetent Latina Judge David Oakley is still trying to make sense of
the damage Den Hollander caused people are capable of evil it's often probably very difficult to distinguish it from
derangement but there is evil and of course there could be some kind of combination of the two this was not one
of those cases where you you would say oh this is the last person I would expect to do something it wasn't that it
made sense no one knows why Roy Dan Hollander chose to drive to this remote part of
the cat skills but when he was a child his family had a vacation home nearby as FBI agents continued going
through those papers left at the scene they found other unsettling leads more names we did uncover a list of a large
number of individuals somewhere in the legal field somewhere in the medical [Music]
field there is no publicly known evidence that Roy Dan Hollander harmed anyone other than the known victims but
investigators were unnerved to find papers in his car with yet more names including other judges and people in the
medical field we always assumed a various intent with someone like this and so we wanted to make sure that
although we didn't think there was any existing threat to them anymore we wanted to let them know um that their
name was found on this list FBI a concluded that the 72-year-old attorney had acted alone we
know a great deal about Mr Hollander uh we spent you know hundreds of hours analyzing his
writings his website had a lot of sexist racist hate speech on it you said that the men's Rights Movement is not angry
white men with a chip on their shoulder about women and yet this guy was an angry White man with a chip on his
shoulder about women if you want an example royen Hollander wrote a book and he dedicated it to his mom may she burn
in hell despite the grudge he held against Mark Angeli Cassie J says the killer was
nowhere near Mark's equal as an advocate what are the big cases that he took on for men's rights so one of his
proudest accomplishments was he sued the state of California for refusing to fund
services for male victims of domestic violence and he won that case uh on equal protection clause in
California Mark scored other legal victories she says but never lost his sense of humanity he lived a life that
we should all strive to emulate and anyone who knew him were were better for it Daniel Andel barely made it to age 20
but he too lived a purposeful life he would always be one of the first people I'd go to for advice about
anything and he was always there to listen he was such a good listener he truly is one of the best people I've
ever met in my entire life we were always texting each other like if anything bad was going on it was hey
like let me talk to really quick like just let me get your opinions the quality that I admired about him most
was his ability to love others and his ability to love even when he was hurt by others he was a very low stress guy and
it was I think it was because he just lived in the present moment so well his friends all remember that
tight-knit relationship he had with his mother and father he was so proud of his parents he
loved what they did his mom was a federal judge of New Jersey he was ecstatic and he talked about her
accomplishments and his father's accomplishments all the [Music] time I just want to be there and support
them in any way I can David Oakley is eager to help his friends he was Daniel's Godfather and they shared a deep
Devotion to their faith I have direct evidence that he died heroically that he had a a holy
death and so I have no hesitation about praying to Daniel and I have been there is nobody else I know that
would do something like that except for Dan to sacrifice his own life to save someone else and it was instinctual for
him in that moment he knew this is what I have to do this is what I'm going to do 7 months after taking three bullets
Mark andal is still recovering he's on the menend but it's a very slow slow process he and judge Salis have now
found a way to have Daniel's goodwi live on my son's death cannot be in vain the judge says the shooter was
looking for her that day and had no problem finding her at her own home the free flow of information from
the internet allowed this sick and depraved human being to find all our personal
information and Target us she and her husband have been fighting hard to change that and in November 2020 they
scored a major victory New Jersey governor signed a new law named for their son I am honored today to sign
Daniel's law judge the law prohibits making the home address of Judges available to the public Daniel's law
will make a difference it will protect judges from senseless acts of violence it's a fitting Legacy she
says in the seconds before his death Daniel asked me to keep talking to him because he loved talking to
me well Daniel on behalf of all New Jersey judges I thank you son [Music] for all you have
done this is now the law of the land judge Salis and Mark andil are now taking Daniel's law to the US Congress
using it as a model for what they hope will become a federal law they remain as devoted to their son as
ever I am profoundly moved by seeing how Mark and Es are dealing with this unspeakable
event they've turned it into something positive for [Music] others 48 Hours don't miss an episode
[Music]

“48 Hours" reports on cases involving mothers seeking the truth and demanding justice. Watch the YouTube mini-marathon, which includes "Mandy Stavik: The Case No One Could Forget," "The Disappearance of Kristin Smart" and "The Deliveryman Murders."

00:00 Mandy Stavik: The Case No One Could Forget 40:46 The Disappearance of Kristin Smart 1:24:19 The Deliveryman Murders

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Mandy Stavik's 1989 murder case is revisited, leading to Tim Bass's arrest in 2017 after decades of investigation and dead ends.

Key points

A Shocking Discovery. Mandy's body is found in the river, shocking the community.
A Break in the Case. Two women share suspicions about a local man, reigniting the investigation.
Trial of Mandy's Accused Killer Begins. After 30 years of heartache, the trial for Mandy's accused killer finally begins.
Sentencing of Tim Bass. Tim Bass receives a maximum sentence of nearly 27 years for his crimes.
The Disappearance. Kristen Smart goes missing, leading to frantic searches and police missteps.
Paul Flores' Alibi. Conflicting stories emerge about Paul Flores' whereabouts the night Kristen disappeared.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I got you.

A father speaking to his daughter after recovering her body.

4:50WatchDec 28, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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