Missing Sodder Children /// Part 2 /// 893 | Forensic Files

A KFC tale in the pursuit of flavor. The holidays were tricky for the Colonel. He
loved people, but he also loved peace and quiet. So, he cooked up KFC's 499 chicken pot pie. Warm, flaky with savory
sauce and vegetables. [music] It's a tender chicken filled excuse to get some time to yourself and step away from
decking [music] the halls, whatever that means. The Colonel lived so we could chicken. KFC's [music] Chicken Pot pie.
The best $4.99 you'll spend this season. >> Prices and participation may very well.
supplies last Texas tips [music] and fees extra. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks
about having four kids that you know about is actually [music] getting a direct line to the big man up north. And
this year, he wants you to know the best gift that [music] you can give someone is the gift of MintMobile's unlimited
wireless for $15 a month. Now, you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try at [music] mintmobile.com/switch.
>> Upfront payment of $45 for 3month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first 3 months
[music] only. Speed slow after 35 GB of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.
[music] [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man who maxed out
all of his credit cards for this year's Christmas, the captain. It was all that cocaine and strippers. It's good to be
seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. [music] Thanks for telling a friend.
Today we are extra Holly and extra jolly. If you shake us, we jingle. That's right. We are still sipping on
some holiday cheer from Shiner. This is a Christmas and holiday brew dressed up with some Texas peaches and roasted
pecans. Some say it's too peachy. I think it's absolutely delicious. I'll tell you how I do it. I only have two
because yes, after that it is too much peach. But pour this one into your favorite frosted mug and sit by the
fireplace with a nice warm blanket and chill out. Garage grade four and 3/4 bottle caps out of five. Deck the halls,
baby. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good friends for helping us out with this week's beer fund. First
up, a cheers to Andrew Busum from Roseville, Michigan. >> And a big we like your jib and tall hand
cans in the air to Jamie from Prince George, Virginia. >> And last, but certainly not least, we
have Rona McDonald in Glasgow, Scotland. [music] Rona, we like the cut of your jib. Rona's attempting to reconnect with
Laura Miller [music] from here in central Ohio. So, cheers to both of you. Hope you connect and cheers to everyone
we just mentioned. And to all for listening and to all of you, we say thank you.
>> Yeah, bw. Are you in? Beer run [music] for everything true crime. Check out true crimegar.com. Make sure you follow
us on social medias and give us five star review [music] if you get a chance. Hey, just go over to Apple Podcast and
go, "Hey, these guys are the [music] best to ever do it." Some say the Michael Jordan of podcast. And that's
enough of the BSN. [music] All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk
some true crime. [music] >> [music] >> The Solder House fire and the subsequent disappearance of five of their children
is one of America's most enduring unsolved mysteries. The events of which unfolded rapidly on Christmas Eve and
Christmas morning. On Christmas Eve, of course, we have the Solder family of Fateville, West Virginia preparing for
Christmas. Around 10 to 11 p.m., the parents and some of the children go to bed, go to sleep, but some of the other
kids stay up to play with new toys and listen to the radio. Around 12:30 a.m. approximately, early Christmas morning,
the phone rings, waking up mother and wife Jenny Solder, she does not recognize the voice on the other end of
the line. She hangs up. She also notices that the front door is unlocked. The lights are still on, and she corrects
this before going to bed. And shortly after time uncertain, Jenny hears a noise, a loud bang on the roof followed
by some rolling. And then the next time when Jan Jenny wakes up, this time is through the smell of smoke and there is
fire. The house is on fire. Some of the families able to make it outside. Some are believed by others to have been
trapped inside of the home. The fire department experienced delays for one reason or another. They are late to
get to the fire and by the time they get there, the house has been burned to the
ground and they are now searching through the ruins looking for the missing Solder family members.
On Christmas Day, firefighters search the wreckage but find no human remains, not even a single bone fragment. The
fire chief suggests that the children were completely incinerated. We went through the events of the fire as
they've been reported over the years. And we went through the emergency services arriving on the scene and then
later the determination by the inquests that the the kids had perished in the fire completely incinerated as the fire
chief had suggest and death certificates signed for each one of these five solder
children. So now what? Okay, where do we go from here? We have a mess on our hands. If you fill the garage with with
the people in this true crime story, we have half of the room saying it's so obvious these poor
little five kids perished in the fire. The other half of this room, Captain saying, shout out to the great Lee
Corso. Not so fast. Not so fast, my friend. I want to give my children a proper burial. Where are they? Where are
the remains? Where? Yeah, I think there's two ways to look at this. If you're the father, okay, I can either
accept that they died in the fire. Now, I want to figure out how the fire started. Was it truly an accident or
just faulty electrical work? And if so, then what happened to my what happened to my ladder that was always leaning
against the house? What happened to my cars that night? I mean, I'd be interested to know how cold it was
outside because if they couldn't get the vehicles to start, it could just be simply that they were too cold.
Sometimes that happens and that will it will stop your car from turning over. But you would think that within
a week or so, George would have been able to figure out if something actually happened. And and I I've never seen
anybody talk about Oh, yeah. Well, they they let her learn that somebody tampered with these engines or whatever
to get them not to start. >> Yeah. One online article and you know when we talk about where are
the kids because that to me and to everyone I think that is the the the biggest part of this mystery right with
and one online article and it was a good one. And forgive me for not recalling the name of the publication, but the
article was titled, "What happened to the solder children? The siblings who went up in smoke." I like the title. Not
sure if it was supposed to be a little tongue and cheek, maybe a throwback reference to Chichin Chong, but
regardless, it's a tit brilliant as it's quick, to the point, and haunting. The children who went up in smoke when the
flames were extinguished and the smoke cleared. Where are the children? Where are they? We got a lot to get to, but
while mentioning that article, it now occurs to me that I should add to the New York Times article that I referenced
at the top of the show of episode 1 with the title 11 children die in four home fires. the December 26, 1945 article
that was across the country. That previous day or two, the five solder kids in West Virginia are a part of that
11 counts. Three kids in Pennsylvania in a fire there. Two in Kansas and one in New York, but this is the only one in
that story where we don't have remains. We have several items to get to. some that you could say is evidence that the
children did in fact perish in the fire and some that is suggestive that maybe they were taken whisked away just before
the fire even started. So we have a statement made that the five kids were definitely in the house after the fire
started. We have the ladder that the captain has brought up. We have a phone line. We have a witness, an excavation,
some bones, a heart, and a mysterious photo perhaps of one of the children. But in the photo, that
child is now a grown man. I think one thing here that I want to leapfrog over the items I just listed would be the
layout of the home. As we mentioned, this is a two-story home with a basement. This is helpful and necessary,
but hardly ever reported. Many, many articles out there describing the events as they happen so quickly of the family
trying to flee a burning house and details of how they're attempting to flee and what happened, what they
observed once outside, but no details as to the layout of the house. So, I'll do
my best to describe it to the good folks out there in listener land. We have a a
front porch. This is as if I'm walking in the front of the house, right, Captain? So, I'm I'm up on the front
porch. I go into the home. Now, out front of the house, looking to my right, will be Mr. and Mrs. Solder's bedroom.
This is on the ground level. So, in part, that makes sense that they would make it out of the home and some of the
kids that may have been upstairs did not. Right? So, to the right you have their bedroom, to the left you have the
living room. One key detail that's important about that living room is remember Marian was sleeping on the
couch. Again, she's on the ground level. She made it out. If you continue past these two rooms, you will now be in
front of the stairwell. All right, these stairs, they go up, there's a landing, they go up again, and on that second
floor is separated into two rooms. You have a large boy's room and you have a large girls room. Those are the only
rooms upstairs in the in the second floor of this home. If you go back to the ground level, past the stairs, to
your right, you have the office. To the left, you have a dining room. Okay. What's key about that office is a couple
of things. This is where the phone, the house phone was. This was the phone that
Mrs. Solder says that one, she she wakes up in the middle of the night because the phone was ringing. Answers it.
Doesn't recognize the voice. Call ends. And then later when she wakes up again smelling smoke, realizing there's a
fire, she her her first instinct is to run to this phone to call for help. That's when she's met with the fire.
According to her statement, I I I think this is fascinating. According to her statement, this is where the first time
the fire is seen really by by anybody. So, if you want to try to figure out where this fire started, this would be
to me where where one would be looking >> right >> now. Past the on the left there, past
the dining room, you have the kitchen and then I guess you would say past the the office, but but on the exterior of
the home, you have another porch. So, you have a back porch. And remember, we talked about the landing on the stairway
having that window that we know Mr. solder broke in an attempt to get to his children, but was unable to do so
because by the time he busted out that window, the uh stairs were completely engulfed in flame. Let's talk about this
statement here. Okay, so this is from an official report of the investigation by
the Department of Public Safety. It says that this report was taken the day of the fire, but officially reported on
January 21st, 1946. So, less than a month later is the I guess it's officially reported. And this
[clears throat] document states that we have the the five kids who were killed. This official document
states the cause of the fire stated as undetermined, but it is believed that the fire started either from defective
wiring or from spontaneous igniting of combustibles in the basement. It is mentioned that the
basement was used as a workshop for their trucks, but there is no mention of gasoline being in the basement. Okay.
So, this is >> I believe the family denies that there was materials, combustible materials
left in the basement. >> Correct. From what we've reviewed, it the family is stating there there was an
engine, maybe two engines that were down in the basement, but no gasoline. I do want to not gloss over the obvious here.
Defective wiring. I would I would really like to know the date of when this electric stove was installed and then it
required the second fuse box, the one that's some guy pointed to and said that's going to start a fire someday,
right? >> Because we know according to those statements that was weeks before the
fire. We don't I don't have an exact date, but it's interesting to me on two fronts, right? That's a recent addition
to the home. Would make sense that that something went wrong with it. But they they appeared to have had that for night
after night for however many nights now. It was considerably colder this night. So the statement here that is troubling
is as follows from this report. John Solder, so this is one of the older boys, stated he heard his mother
yelling, woke up his brother George, goes by Ted, and then went into the other room, and shook the kids awake.
Note, we should note here that John later denies this and changes his statement to that he was yelling up to
the kids after he himself had already fled downstairs. >> Right? >> Of course, this is going to be a huge
point of contention in this case. And one of the factors that leads many to believe that they did in fact die in the
fire. Because if his original statement is factual and true, that places the missing kids inside the home after the
fire had started. >> And obviously, if the parents are questioning whether or not those kids
were in the house, they're going to do the best shakeddown to get the truthful information out of
their son. He then went outside to try to put the fire out, then ran back in to bring the rest of the kids down, but by
that point, the stairs had been engulfed in flames. He also tried to start one of
the trucks, but could not. And he states that the wind was blowing from the direction of the corner of the house
where the fire started, the southeast corner. He also states that they repaired motors in the basement, and to
his knowledge, there were two motors down there at the time of the fire. I guess trying to crawl inside inside of
this dude's head here. I mean, what level of guilt does he have? A massive amount of guilt that they died in the
fire, right? And and and keep in mind, this report, this official report is stated that it was taken the day of but
not reported officially until January 21st. So, here's what I'm getting at. Bear
with me here, Captain. I know that a lot of times all we have to go off of is someone's words, right? And but we both
agree that this case has been reported on a lot of different ways over the eight decades. I don't know. I just
could see a situation where in the moment, right, your brothers and sisters died in this houseire and in his grief
and in the moment and just reacting to the unimaginable, he says, "I tried to I woke them up.
They didn't get out of the house." >> And then later with a clearer head and a clearer view of what he remembers,
states, "I I didn't wake them up. I ran downstairs and I was yelling for them to
get up." >> Yeah. I can't remember who said it but cuz I'd love to give him credit for this
thought but the thought was that his initial statement is what he should have done and the later statement was the
truth because of eventually >> as the as there's questions are they in the house or not these little details
then matter and once this individual knows that these details matter he just tells the truth.
>> Exactly. I I could see that. I mean again in the moment reacting to the unimaginable. What did he say and is
that a reflection of the truth or not or more of his feelings? The latter is an interesting part of this story. I think
it's one that's talked about at length, but you and I agree on the general statements regarding this ladder. I we
have multiple members of the solder family saying the ladder was always here in this position. We always kept it here
and then when we went to go and get it when we needed it the most during the middle of this fire all of a sudden it
wasn't there. Now the h the ladder is stored outside of the home. Any person could get to it. Anybody could take it.
Somebody could do something with the ladder. What we do know, and this is in every report, distance varies, but the
general statement is always the same. The latter was later found over an embankment. And some take it a step
further to say, you know, it appears somebody had thrown it over an embankment. And the report I have in
front of me here, Captain, states that it was approximately 70 ft from the hole.
>> Yeah. So, this would be an implication that if the fire was arson, somebody got
rid of the ladder, thinking that that would slow people to get out of the house or maybe even slow
extinguishing the flames. >> Yeah. It's also a very good possibility because you have so many kids that at
some point maybe one of the kids moved this ladder and obviously we have five missing kids. So, we have five kids that
could have moved the ladder before the fire took place and they can't they're not around to confess to it.
>> Yes, that that could very well be true. And that doesn't necessarily mean that
it was an accidental fire or an arson. It kind of leaves it >> right >> still in the the gray area. We've
mentioned the trucks several times. I kind I I appreciate the cander here because I found later reports.
Look, it's often been speculated and often been reported that the trucks were possibly messed with or disturbed. We
have in in a a later article, one of the family members who was attempting to start the truck that night
admitting that we probably choked them too hard as we were panicked and in a hurry and we probably prevented them
from from starting. Now, that's not scientifically conclusive information, but I find that interesting that the the
folks that are in the camp, the family members that are in the camp of someone stole our loved ones and set our house
on fire are openly saying years later, we think the truck part of this was just us rushing to rescue and we we failed.
>> Yeah. I really wish they would have brought out some kind of scent dogs because
you have another scenario too where you have kids that are saying, "Hey, we want
to stay up and play." Is there any do we have any cause for concern that they left the property like on their own?
>> Very cold that night. It was snowing at some point. It was a white Christmas um
that night. The here here's another and this is fact. After the fire, remember we had the the one-time boss, the
one-time business partner, the co-signer on the home, Fenzo Jonnutello, the man who was encouraging George to increase
the insurance on the house and take out insurance on family members of the Solder family. It was learned after the
fire that Johnello did it on his own. Raised the insurance anyways on the home without telling George Solder from 1,500
to750. Jonatella was was paid out after the fire. Remember he was the beneficiary of
this insurance. >> Well, that could be a motive. >> Yes, it very well could have. So the
that would have been a little over $30,000 today, which is a lot of money. >> Can be and and we've seen unfortunately
we've seen people killed or bad things done to people for a lot less. A lot lot less unfortunately, but to me it does
seem like a rather small amount to nine children. Not saying it's impossible. >> Yeah. But see, but again, that's the
difficult thing here because you could go his plan could have been, well, screw this George guy. I'm going to burn down
the house, but they'll get out. Nobody will get killed. And we've seen plenty of times where somebody holds a grudge,
some weird crazy grudge, and all reasoning tossed aside, right? just it's all it's
it's it's about getting even and nothing else. >> Yeah. But I'd also say desperate times
cause for desperate [clears throat] measures. And I think again we don't know what was going on in his world. One
of the things that people talk about is because of the because that they were from Italy and we don't we don't really
know why he left. like there's not like a complete story of why why did George decide to come to America and start a
new life and so then there's some thoughts that maybe he was tied to some bad or shady businesses back there he
could have been but we need to keep in mind he was 13 years old when he came from Italy to the United States
>> right and then I just wonder because and again this is probably because I I'm really late to the party, but I just
finished I just finished The Sopranos a little bit ago. And you see in that situation where they're like, "Well, if
we're going to mess with if this guy owes us money or this guy is uh dead to us, the actions of terror or the actions
of uh violence is towards that individual. They normally stay away from children and and wives and stuff and so
but that that gets brought up often in this case. >> Well, and the witness that we have is
quite interesting because we talked about where did the fire start. That's always been something that is heavily
debated and we do know that based off of the statements given by Mrs. solder that
she first she appears to be the first one in the family to see the flames and she sees them in the office already
inside of the home. But it's later learned that a witness come comes forward saying that I'm driving past the
house. He states that he saw what looked like balls of fire in the air in the sky
being thrown onto the roof or or thrown at the house. >> Yeah. that didn't they find some weird
like cocktail bomb? >> Yeah. So that's what when I read that statement I immediately went to Molotov
cocktail thinking that that's what may have been thrown there. There is a report a statement in one of the reports
that later they found what they described as either a pineapple bomb or a grenade type device. But the and some
reports state that they were like little green balls, but I don't know. I I would
like to you would think that that would be something that would be photographed and well doumented and not kind of like
a oh by the way again because this case is so bizarre and mysterious, it lends itself to some wacky rumors.
Welcome to Walgreens. Looking for a holiday gift? >> Sort of. My cousin Freddy showed up to
surprise us. >> Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise. >> Exactly. So, now I have to get him a
gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet. So, if we could make it something really
nice, but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect. >> How about a curig for 50% off?
>> Bingo. Savings all season. The holiday road is long. We're with you all the way. Walgreens. Offer valid November
26th [music] through December 27th. Exclusions apply. >> What if you could cover your gray hairs
without damage? [music] With K18 molecular repair hair mask, you can have strong, soft, bouncy hair and keep your
root touch-ups. Because it doesn't just cover up damage, it's [music] the deep damage fix. Patented K18 peptide repairs
on the molecular level. So, no matter what you do to your hair, K18 will be there to fix the damage. [music] Shop at
Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase with code podcast atk18hair.com. That's code podcast atk18.com.
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because [music] right now MintMobile is offering
you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. And Mint is still premium
unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah. Give it a try at midmobile.com/switch. [music]
>> Up front payment of $45 per three month plan equivalent to $15 per month [music]
required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 GB of networks busy. Taxes and fees
extra. See midmobile.com. Time it's always vanishing. The commute, the errands, the work functions, the
meetings, selling your car. Unless you sell your car with Carvana. Get a real offer in minutes. Get it picked up from
your door. Get paid [music] on the spot so fast you'll wonder what the catch is.
There isn't one. We just respect you and your time. Oh, you're still here. Move along now. Enjoy your day. Sell your car
[music] today. >> Pick up fees may apply. [music] [music] All right, we are back. You
filthy animals. Talk hands in the air. Cheers [music] to you, Colonel. Cheers to you, Captain. Little little shiner
holiday cheer beer with a eggnog side car. Everybody out there, wishing you the very best and happiest of holidays.
The phone line is something that should be discussed as well because there were reports that the phone line, and this
makes sense, simply melted, was destroyed in the fire. Some of the reports state that Jenny Solders picked
up the phone and the phone didn't work. Right. The report I gave and chose to use here for the telling of this true
crime story is that she didn't make it to the phone because of the flames. The office space was already in engulfed in
flames and she she couldn't make it to the phone. >> Yeah. >> Either way, the result is the same. No
phone call for help came from inside the solder home. >> Yeah. And again, I'm not electrician,
but this is we get into this weird gray area because you have some eyewitnesses saying, "Well, yeah, we saw a fire, but
the lights were still on." And then you go, "Well, they have this separate fuse box." So, is that two separate systems?
So could hypothetically could you have the one system have faulty electronics? It goes up in flame and it
has really zero effect on the other electricity to the house until the fire gets big enough.
>> I agree. I'm I'm no Al Borland or Bob Vila, but I would it would stand to reason that one could operate while the
other has is not. Yeah, I'm no Bob Va, but I got a whole trunk of duct tape >> that it was later. So later when it came
time to restore the phone line. So we should point out something here that that is unique about this story as well.
When they came time to rebuild their home or build a new home, they didn't build it over top of where the old one
once stood. >> No, >> they put they they basically built it next to there. >> Yeah. He ended up basically George.
That's what I'm talking about. The father ended up just burying the whole old building and it was basically like a
little hill in their yard that was a burial to his children. >> And you know, >> I I should say a memorial to the
children because I I don't think the family had a gut feeling that their loved ones were gone. I think their gut
feeling was telling them, "No, they're still alive. They're out there somewhere."
>> Gut feel. I mean, they fought till till they for the rest of their lives to try
to find these children. >> Yeah. >> And what what I find interesting, too, and this goes back to something that was
said that we said on the show many many moons ago in in the first season of our show, that you know, I had said, I'm
always suspicious when a a a kid disappears, goes missing, and then later the family moves away.
>> Yes. >> I always find that very strange. Here you have the exact opposite. You would
have what I would expect a grieving family, grieving parents, parents that are convinced that their child could be
alive out there somewhere. They never move. They never change their phone number. Why? Because, god forbid that
kid get the chance to to, you know, not god forbid. Let's hope that that kid gets the opportunity to get to a phone
and can call home. We can't change the phone number. we should never move because what if they try to come back
and the solders didn't move. They built their home right next to the old one. So
the phone company has to come out and put up a new restore phone service now to the new house, right? The phone
company informs the solders that hey the old phone line uh it didn't melt in the
fire. It w we found that it was cut and it was cut 14 ft in the air and 2 feet away from the pole. This many people
saying and rightfully so meaning that a ladder would have to have been needed to
reach it. Makes sense. So think about this for the moment. You manage to set the house ablaze. You're attempting an
arson either prior to or shortly after. You want to cut the phone line. You borrow the ladder. Maybe the ladder
wasn't You didn't Maybe the perpetrator or whoever set the fire walk down this road with me and pretend for a moment.
Maybe they didn't move the ladder and throw it down the embankment because they were hoping that it would deter
people from getting outside or or extinguishing the flames. >> It was simply they moved it to cut the
phone line at some point and toss the ladder after doing so. >> Yeah. I always wondered too, did they
use the ladder to remove the children from the house? That's a strong possibility. I always wondered if the
kids never went back upstairs if they were removed from the ground level. >> Right.
>> Right near the front porch. But then why wasn't the littlest one removed? The one
that was on the couch. >> You're right. So I failed to report that in our timeline. She went to bed with
the mother. >> Right. So that makes sense. We don't want to try to wake the mother. She went
to bed with the with the littlest one in the parents room from from my understanding. This part is odd because
it's not reported in a lot of the reports on this, but again, the captain was right. A lot of times near Christmas
time, you get the retelling of the story and you kind of get the 10-minute version. So, you're you're not going to
have every fine detail that is involved in the story. But what was learned and reported on that at some point either
prior to or after the fire had been set, we don't know. Lonnie Johnson and Jeff Atkins, remember these are the two that
own that Cass's place, the the beer place that was Cass's Park that we had mentioned.
Lonnie Johnson and Jeff Atkins entered the solder's barn, stole a pair of chain hoist, and threw them over an embankment
to retrieve at a later time. Now, stealing these chain hoist would not have been an easy task as they were
connected to the ceiling in the barn and would take a fair amount of time and assistance to remove them. Now, when
George Solder found out after the fire, he finds out about this, reports it. Jeff Atkins, he around the same time
enrolls in the army and he goes off and he is gone for about two years. >> Yeah.
>> Jeff Atkins, the other guy was, as this report goes, never questioned or charged
for this theft. However, the Lonnie Johnson was ordered to appear in court but never did and was eventually fined
$25 for this and nothing else was done. >> Part of this chain hoist story includes
the telephone line. Lonnie Johnson also admitted to cutting the telephone lines because quote he thought it was the
power line and thought cutting the power line would stop the fire. And we know based off of the other reports that
Lonnie Johnson and Jeff Atkins were persons that showed up to the fire that morning. So his statement is, "Yeah, I
cut the I cut the phone line, but I didn't know that it was the phone line. I thought there's faulty wiring. It's an
electrical fire. if I cut the the power to running to the house that that would would help put out this fire
>> which would which would have probably killed him. >> Yeah. >> Well, he's probably your criminal
because what what have we learned in the last 10 years? A lot of these criminals
are dumb. Well, and what okay when the ladder part is a big part of the story again that what he thought was the power
line but turns out to be the telephone line and they say well a ladder would have had to been used to cut it at that
point. >> Yeah. >> Where's the followup of okay well how did you get up there sir and oh you used
the family's ladder because here's here's the part that that matters with this. If it was cut before
the fire and he used that ladder, he moved the ladder. If it was cut after the fire,
which we don't have, we don't have that marker on our timeline. It's not known. But it goes back to well, did he bring
his own ladder to the to the situation to cut it to try to save the day? Or did he did he move the ladder after the fire
had started? Because if he was the one to move the ladder, then the ladder was still in its position when he found it.
>> Yeah. Then it makes you wonder if George the father is telling the whole truth
and nothing but the truth or again, it's a very chaotic scene. So the fact that some of these
individuals are going to report things that might not have been true because there's just chaos, that's a very good
likelihood. So then if you can explain the cutting of the phone line and you can explain the ladder and you can
explain the cars. Oh, we just probably choked them out too quickly. Okay, that's great. And maybe it was just an
accident, but where are the children? And I think that's what's very difficult, too, because
I'm not a I'm not a scientist. I can't tell you when somebody's cremated, how much is left behind? How big are the
bone fragments? Because these were smaller children. Would that play a role? Is there a
difference in the bone density of a smaller children? Would that affect how? And it's no easy way to say that, but
it's like there could be all these reasons that would affect if we find their remains or not.
>> Mhm. >> So, you could have a situation where Yeah. Um and and that's where I go back
to with like the insurance man when when he goes, "Oh, well, your your house is going to burn down and your kids are
going to suffer and blah blah blah." Did he do an inspection? Because I was watching the show the other day. You
might have heard of it. It's called The Gilmore Girls. and she had a bed and breakfast basically a inn and she
thought she was getting screwed on her insurance. So she had a agent come out but the agent had to do an inspection on
the house. So this is information that George would have been privy to. When the agent came to the house, did he just
was he making threats or did he go around the house and look at things and go, "Hey,
yeah, your your electrician told you this stuff is correct, but it's not, and you need to do something about this."
And so then when George says, "Well, no, I'm not going to do anything. I'm not raising the insurance on this house
because well, I wouldn't benefit from it anyways." And the agent's like, "Yeah, but I just I just in inspected your
house and you have some problems. So if you don't do this, you your whole house is going to burn down. Your children are
going to die." Like where's trying to talk some sense into him? So that's where it's like did this individual
threaten him or was the individual trying to say what are you doing? Like you have things that you need to fix or
bad things can happen. >> Well, later we have bones that are found. We have an excavation that takes
place and it yields some findings. Those findings are some bones. Okay. So this report
report on examination of bones by Oscar B. Hunter. The items that are being tested were received on August 19th,
1949. The report is from August 25th, 1949. We have eight fragments of bone that were
found in the northeast corner and were determined to be animal bones. Six bones, two of which are fragments,
were found in the southeast corner. Two fragments were determined to be chicken femurss, but the other four definitely
consisted of a lumbar vertebrae. Okay, so eight fragments of bone were determined to be animal bones. And then
we have six bones. Two of those fragments were determined to be chicken femurss, but the other four definitely
consisted of lumbar vertebrae. These vertebrae show no evidence of being burned. However, the approximate age of
this vertebrae, 14 to 15 year old child. Now, here's the problem. you don't find the rest of the
skeleton. What this report states is that this vertebrae would have had to have been forcibly removed from the rest
of the skeleton, suggesting that these bones were separated from the remaining portion of
the skeleton at a later time and that the skeleton was the vertebrae too have no evidence of being burned. This is
very strange. So, while it it may tell some people that this could be one of the kids remains of one of the kids,
it's also saying these remains weren't burned at any time. So, there's a shipping invoice to the Smithsonian
Institute that took place on September 20th, 1949. Inside of it were those human
and animal bones. And the human bones consisted of four lumbar lumbar vertebrae belonging to one individual.
the age of that individual is anywhere from 16 to 22 years of age in at the time of death. So this this is a
different report by a different agency. It is possible but not probable that these bones would belong to a 14
12year-old boy. So that would be Maurice. Again, this report too states vertebrae
showed no evidence of being exposed to fire. This report also states that it is very strange that no other bones were
found. also states that since the house was estimated to have burned for only this report says half an hour, but I'm
with the captain. I've seen reports 45 minutes to an hour that they would expect to have found full skeletons of
the children, not just fragments. And then did you hear the story about the heart? You saved the best for last.
>> We have a heart that was found. All right, bear with me on this because it's complicated. It stated that a heart was
found and that it was buried at the scene. Now, when the Solder parents catch wind of this, they want to know
that where where was this heart? We want to retrieve it, where was it buried? And they were told that it was a a stake
was used to mark where it was buried. The problem with that portion of the story is there's no stake. The family
remained on the property. They lived on that property. No stake. So eventually they're shown where this air quotes
heart was buried to which when they retrieve this item, it is sent off for testing and it's determined to be a beef
liver. So not a heart at all and not human. And some reports state that it is fresh.
So, keep in mind this this is quite a bit of time later. So, this is saying that somebody went back to the location
of the fire, the house fire, and planted this item in hopes that whoever found it
would buy what this person was selling, that it was in fact a heart. Now, later,
this person admitted that, hey, I went there and I put this item there. I was hoping that the family would find it.
And then in turn they would accept what happened to their children. That they they clearly needed some strong evidence
to tell them that their kids perished in that fire. They don't have the mental, emotional capacity to accept that,
right? >> And so I placed this item there, >> a place to live >> because I was hoping to help them. I was
hoping to help them. >> So stupid. >> And then we also have >> small town. So all these people are
connected. You know, the old boss is connected to the fire department. The fire department people are connected to
the coroner. The coroner is connected to the insurance agent. They're all connected.
>> But it's weird cuz it's like, okay, if these five children, everything scientifically kind of points to that
they're not in the house. And then you go, cool. Okay. So, maybe the fire was a distraction for kidnapping these
children >> or an attempt to cover up them being taken, right? If >> No, that's what I mean. Like, we're
going to take the children and then we'll start this fire and then >> everyone will think that they died in
the fire. And as you pointed out, that was >> unfortunately such a a a common thing,
much more common back then than it is today. So it would seem conceivable, right?
>> Yeah. >> The And also I think it's like winter time, especially back then, winter time
and and Christmas time was like that was the houseire season. But then you also wonder too like well I wonder too like
maybe it was more sinister than that. Maybe this ex boss had this fondness for his children but thought you know what
I'll burn down the house so I'll get the money but I'll take the children because
I want to make sure that they're safe. I don't want them to die but I can't get to all of them. Well I'll just you know
whoever is going to start the fire. You just tell hey start the fire. Get as many of the kids you can. And then the
kids will go away. We'll send them to somebody to raise. And then I get to see this the destruction that I caused. Like
you said, this would this would have to be somebody that was not not just in it for the money, but in it for the revenge
to watch George Solder suffer for the rest of his life. >> Yeah. But then it's also too like some
of these businesses were backed by organized crime and and that I think that's something again I don't think
George would have told anybody that except for maybe his other family members. Well, this might have happened
because I had some ties to some people I shouldn't have had ties to, but I don't
think anybody's reporting that he was a a drunk or a gambler or whatever. And most people don't
steal your kids and add responsibility to their own plate because you owe somebody money. Well, years later, the
Sauders receive a letter. And this, many say, is believed to be possibly the most credible evidence that they were
right, that that the children were still alive. And in this specific scenario, at
least Lewis was still alive. Because as the story goes here, Captain, one day Jenny found in the mail a letter
addressed to her postmarked in central city, Kentucky with no return address. Inside Jenny finds a picture of a young
man who appears to be in his late 20s, maybe 30 years old, with she says, features that strongly resembled Lewis,
one of their missing kids, who would have been in his 30s if he had survived. On the back of this was written Lewis
Solder, I love brother Frankie L boys. And then this is handwritten too. So little bit of speculation here.
A90132 or A90135 on the back of this, but we were there was they were never able to determine if
this was in fact Lewis, where it came from, who sent it, or really any other information about this picture. Yeah.
>> Well, no. I I I believe they actually had the return address and they This is
the one where they sent the private investigator out to look for the individual, but the private investigator
took their money. I don't think ever returned. And so, a lot of people make that a big deal of the story. Well, a
private investigator disappeared as well. Well, we don't know if he just took the money or not, right?
>> Yeah. So, I I think that part of this is I think from my understanding that was a
story that came out of Houston, Texas, that that it was a tip that came into the family with this one that we have
with the picture of the unidentified person with the name Lewis Solder written on the back. The reports I have
say that it was postmarked in central city, Kentucky with no return address. >> Even if they had an address on it,
they're probably not going to put their house address on it so you could come looking for them. You wonder, too, like,
okay, so if this kid, let's just go down a hypothetical road here. If this child
is alive, then the other ones got out of the fire as well, and they're living somewhere else. Now, are they all still
alive? Who knows? But that means all five got out and and they're alive somewhere. And
it's probably somebody that just saw from a distance what was happening and felt like they had to do something to
give this family some answers or some type of closure. And then I guess you can also these stories get so big. The
amount of pictures I've received of people that go, "Hey, don't you think this person looks like Mara Murray? Hey,
don't you think this person looks like Brian Schaefer?" And it's like, I don't know. Did you go
up and talk to him? Like, you just took a picture from afar or or you found this
picture on the internet. So this story being as popular as it was and as talked about it as it was, even though it was a
long long time ago, the the story would have traveled slower, but it still would
have traveled. So it could just be somebody that thought that this looked like one of the children all grown up.
>> Well, and I think one part too that that is important to understand here. Okay.
So, this story when you review it and you just start to look at it from the 30,000 ft view to me, I go,
"The kids burned up in the house." And I'm terribly sorry that that happened, but that seems to be the obvious
explanation. Then when you tell me that nothing was found and then when stuff is found, it's
not remains that can be identified as any of these these children. Uh most of it not human at all. And then what the
remains that were human show no signs of being part of a fire. That's when I start to go, you know what? I I have a
difficult time wrapping my head around the idea that somebody took the kids and set the fire and and managed to keep
them away forever, but you don't have a body. You don't you don't have any bodies.
And then there's also the science of it. Okay, we talked about items that were found that were recovered from the sight
of the fire and some of those items were coins. So, up until 1982, pennies were made of 95% copper,
5% zinc. Copper burns melts at just under 20, sorry, just under 2,000° F. Zinc burns melts at just under
800° F. Nickels. Up until 1942, nickels were made of 25% nickel and 75% copper. Nickel burns melts at 2600°
F. Now, from 1942 to 1945, nickels were made from a threepart alloy that contains silver and copper because they
were saving nickel supplies for the war effort. So, this alloy in particular burns, melts at 1630°
F. Bone is difficult. Okay. Bone turns to ash through a process where extreme heat removes water
and burns organic material, mostly collagen, causing mineral crystals to change and fuse, requiring temperatures
generally from 1292° F to over 1,800° F. Okay. So that that temperature certainly falls within
the range of nickels that may have melted, but we have things that are burning and and or or sorry not burning
and surviving at the scene that burn and melt at a much lower temperature than bone. And then here's the problem though
too. If if you were to burn bone, so a cremation, right? Let's take cremation for example.
>> Yeah. >> Crematories reach around 1,800° F. So you're going to burn for 1 to two hours.
1,800° F. 1,800° F is much higher than the zinc. >> Yeah. >> And it has to burn for one to two hours.
Now, let's say let's pretend maybe that fire did burn for for 1 hour. This reducing the body to bone fragments.
They didn't find fragments. 1,800° gets you to fragments. If you were to get true ash, complete combustion to mineral
ash requires a much higher heat and longer durations of that heat, making bone fully disappear.
And it's such a high heat and such a lengthy process that this isn't typically the standard in cremation. You
look at the science of it and I'm and I don't want to sit here and pretend to say that look that definitively says
what did or did not happen that day. I think what it says is this is more reason to question
why they didn't find remains of five people. Not of one person, of five people. And what are the odds of that?
Slim to none. And where I'm going when this is all said and done, I'm going to burn for a lot longer than that, my
friend. For those that are saying, "Absolutely not. They died in the fire." I just want you to to to
have this information because if it could happen once, it's very conceivable that it could have happened before.
Okay, this is a story out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The headline is, "A fire that
authorities six years ago thought killed a 10day old girl was a ruse to kidnap the infant, Philadelphia police said."
And I'll just read you part of the story, and that is the baby, Delmomar Vera, was sleeping in an upstairs front
bedroom when a fire broke out at her family's twostory rowhouse in North Philadelphia. This took place December
15th, 1997. Her mother runs upstairs, could not find Delmare, the baby, when she ran into the room. She eventually
ran out of the house, overcome by smoke. She was burned herself. Her other two children survived, thank God. The
remains of the infant's body were never found, and police concluded that they had been incinerated in the flames. The
official cause of the fire was listed as an overheated extension cord attached to
a space heater. Six years six years later, the mother sees a young girl and she says, "I
recognize the face. That's my daughter." They do DNA test and confirm that it was
this woman's missing daughter. So, just have the information that when they when the officials
ruled on this house fire and a deceased, completely incinerated body in the flames in 1997,
52 years after the Christmas fire on 1945, if they got it wrong, in 97 using that
technology, those resources. Then it's very conceivable that they may have gotten it wrong back in 1945. [music]
I want to thank everybody so much for keeping us company in the garage all year long. Thanks for being our friends.
Thanks for listening to these true crime stories. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everybody. And happy
holidays to you as well, my friend, Colonel. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to you as well, Captain. And cheers to
everybody out there listening to my voice right now. I hope you have the best of holidays for you and yours and a
happy, healthy, and prosperous new year. Heat. Heat. [music] [music] [music] Having [music] the right people in your
corner for life's biggest milestones makes all the difference. Like a friend who's there when you're house hunting or
checking out [music] a new ride, State Farm is there, too, helping you choose the coverage you need. [music] With a
State Farm agent, you know someone is there to help you along the way. And with so many coverage [music] options,
it's nice knowing you have help choosing a plan that fits your needs so you can continue celebrating all of life's
[music] milestones. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

Missing Sodder Children /// Part 2 /// 893

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

In Fayetteville, West Virginia there once stood two billboards. Billboards announcing a mystery and asking for help. These billboards were up for decades, seeking answers. Passing motorists could easily see either as they wizzed by in their automobiles. This is the information from one of them. At the top was a simple announcement - “After thirty years it is not too late to investigate” Below this text, the billboard featured pictures of each of the five missing Sodder children - Maurice, Martha, Louis, Jennie, and Betty.

The text below the pictures read…

On Christmas Eve 1945 our home was set afire and five of our children ages 5 through 14 kidnapped. The officials blamed defective wiring although lights were still burning after the fire started. The official report stated that the children died in the fire. However no bones were found in the residue and there was no smell of burning flesh during or after the fire. What was the motive of the law officers involved? What did they have to gain by making us suffer all of these years of injustice? Why did they force us to accept those lies?

Anyone with any information is asked to email5sodderkids@gmail.com

Beer of the Week - Holiday Cheer by Shiner

Garage Grade - 4 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5

More True Crime Garage can be found on Patreon and Apple subscriptions with our show - Off The Record. Catch dozens of episodes of Off The Record plus a couple of Bonus episodes and our first 50 when you sign up today.

True Crime Garage merchandise is available on our website’s store page.

Follow the show on X and Insta @TrueCrimeGarage / Follow Nic on X @TCGNIC / Follow The Captain on X @TCGCaptain

Be good, be kind, and Merry Christmas!

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The Solder House fire led to the mysterious disappearance of five children, sparking theories of foul play and unresolved questions about their fate.

Key points

The Solder House Fire. A tragic fire leads to the disappearance of five children, sparking an enduring mystery.
Unsolved Mystery. The Solder family's tragedy remains one of America's most enduring unsolved mysteries.
Conflicting Statements. John Solder's changing statements raise questions about the night of the fire.
Insurance Motive. Johnello raised the insurance on the home without informing George Solder, suggesting a possible motive for the fire.
Mysterious Phone Line Cut. The old phone line was found cut 14 feet in the air, raising questions about the fire's origin.
Bizarre Bone Findings. Excavation yields bones, but many fragments show no evidence of burning, complicating the case.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I want to give my children a proper burial. Where are they?

A father's desperate plea for answers.

6:58WatchDec 24, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.