Liko Kenney /// Part 2 /// 389 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] on May 11 2007 liko left work at Agway
this is a farm equipment and garden supply chain around 6 pm he and his best friend and co-worker and now roommate
Caleb McCauley got into liko's powder blue 1984 Toyota Celica Supra for their evening the two picked up a handle of
vodka and cranberry juice for a little mixer 5 out of 5 bottle caps liko and Caleb drove down Route 116 toward East
and traveling at 45 to 47 miles per hour the speed limit in this area is 35 miles
per hour but soon a police SUV this is a Chevy Tahoe that's heading toward them from the opposite direction is spotted
so liko slowed down trying to avoid getting pulled over driving the Tahoe was none other than
Corporal Bruce McKay McKay saw that the registration sticker on the Toyota was expired officer McKay
flipped on his lights made a u-turn and now he's chasing down the Toyota according to Caleb liko pulled his car
into the first available dirt turnout on the side of routes 116. we have dashboard footage of this and this video
will also be at our website at True Crime garage.com the two sat in the vehicle while officer
McKay called in a request for another unit to provide backup on the call McKay said he pulled over leeco Kenny
Sugar Hill PD heard this call and was quickly in route then officer McKay got out of his vehicle now for those that
have not seen this video online there is no audio for this portion of the video and McKay is just off camera as he
approaches the driver's side window so we can't see him all we know about this portion of the
stop is what Caleb later told investigators Caleb says he observed the following from the passenger seat McKay
asked for liko's license and registration without telling him why he pulled him over Lico refused
and asked that another officer be called to the scene Caleb says officer McKay refused this
request liko started making calls on his cell phone but failed to get a hold of anyone
and then suddenly liko sped off leaving officer McKay's vehicle sitting in the dirt off of the side of Route 116.
Caleb says liko was concerned and Afraid of the traffic stop and afraid of Officer McKay
liko was in route to his family's property which was not far away at all this because liko wanted there to be
Witnesses in case something should happen and to be clear he's not speeding at like a hundred miles an hour he just
drives off yeah that's one thing that I thought was interesting about this portion of the
video he's clearly not speeding away but officer McKay jumps in his vehicle and gives Chase he is racing at a much
higher rate of speed in my opinion well right to catch up with him with the siren and lights on just a few hundred
yards before the east in line McKay passed liko and slowed to a stop forcing likos Toyota to a halt behind him
McKay turned the Tahoe around to face liko's car and motion for liko to back up into a dirt driveway this is a wide
dirt driveway owned by the McKenzie family liko gestured out the window with his
hand indicating to McKay that he wanted to to pass or as Caleb would say proceed
to his family's property McKay was having none of this meanwhile a gray Chevy Silverado pickup
truck can be seen in the background of the dash cam footage stopped on the shoulder of Route 116 and presumably
observing all of this leeco backed onto the dirt driveway and McKay paused for a few
seconds and then Advanced his vehicle his bumper physically pushing liko's car up against a front end loader that was
parked there I think it's safe to say he rammed ram liko's car rammed him and pushed him into this front end loader
then suddenly the audio around this time kicks in and we hear the blaring sound of the siren
McKay enters the frame on the right side striding up to liko's open window and immediately releasing a heavy stream of
pepper spray forcibly into the vehicle spraying both occupants McKay turns to jog away and then an arm comes out of
the driver's side window holding a handgun shots are fired in Rapid succession and we can hear McKay
groaning in pain then the car driven by liko backs up turns and drives off to the right out of
the frame the dash cam video ends there but this is not the end of this encounter
here's what we know happened from multiple witness statements one thing that gets thrown in here
captain that that may be of some interest to some is that apparently totally uncharacteristically of Officer
McKay he was not wearing his bulletproof vest on this day yeah he was known to always wear his vest so one bullet went
through McKay's arm and four hit him in his side McKay likely in shock stumbled across
the road dripping blood trying to pull his gun out of his holster and that's when liko backed up and drove
in his Direction running his car right into the back of Officer McKay Caleb later told investigators that he
thought this was accidental after all Lika was likely at least partially blinded by the pepper spray right but
then liko backed up and ran the Toyota forward right into McKay now now the Toyota is stuck
because this vehicle is now on top of the cop as stated in Bad Blood if the first
attempt was an accident the second certainly was not and I tend to believe this I I tend to believe it none of it's
accident I mean before you hit the officer with your car you pulled a gun and shot him multiple times
this horrific event still is not over sadly the other vehicle we mentioned the pickup truck that was sitting on the
roadway a few hundred yards away witnessing this whole thing had two passengers inside
the driver was teenager Gregory P Floyd and the passenger seat was his father Gregory W Floyd
the senior Floyd walked over and grabbed officer McKay's dropped service weapon off of the ground
he checked that it was loaded as he walked toward the Toyota's passenger side and he raised his arm and he shot into
the car shattering the window and hitting the driver liko in the head and the neck
the bullets whistled over Caleb's back as he bent over his knees terrified Floyd yelled to his son to call for help
on McKay's Cruiser radio Floyd Jr as we're calling him he's not technically a junior grabbed the radio
in McKay's empty Cruiser and radioed in officer down officer down I don't you need to come I don't know where you need
to you need to come the police officer I think he's dead the people that the officer was trying to stop all of a
sudden just started shooting at him and then my dad had me stop and then he tried to help the officer
that was on the call now according to Caleb as soon as Floyd shot Lika without warning Floyd ordered Caleb to grab
liko's gun and get out of the car or he's going to shoot him in the face Caleb was convinced that Floyd would
shoot him so he decided to not touch the gun he refused to touch the gun in fact not
wanting to give Floyd an excuse to shoot him which is probably the move that saves his life [ __ ] man I don't know if
I would have been that quick on my head feet to come up with that in that situation especially when you're you're
I mean you're terrified instead Caleb sat in the dirt outside the car with his hands in the air terrified and in tears
Floyd took liko's gun from inside the car and then took off his shirt to make a tourniquet for the downed officer so
now Floyd is shirtless his huge belly hanging out holding two weapons both pointed at Caleb dead when officer
Philip Blanchard arrived on the scene and told Floyd to drop the weapons he had to do so a number of times including
using some Choice language before Floyd complied but saying something like easy son I'm quicker than you
yeah that's so strange then Floyd and officer Blanchard hoisted the Toyota off of Officer McKay
so that a nurse could give him CPR McKay had several lacerations on his face including having lost the tip of
his nose his skull is fractured he had a shattered pelvis and of course the gunshot wounds his intestines Spilled
Out of a severe wound in his abdomen as he looked on Greg Floyd said about McKay quote he's [ __ ] the cops yelled
at him to shut up McKay is still alive at this time you know CPR is being performed right you can't have this guy
in the background saying the guy's not going to make it people give up in those situations unfortunately the CPR was too
little too late for McKay who was then pronounced dead at the hospital meanwhile no one at the scene checked to
see whether liko had a pulse at this time he did not and he too was in fact dead and it's definitely a disturbing
video to watch knowing that both these individuals lost their lives that's what was strange for me Captain
was going into it I knew what the outcome was going to be but watching it it's it's still
disturbing it just happened so fast as it's like chaos happens so quickly you can't really prepare yourself for what
you're about to see so let's talk about Gregory Floyd The Man Who so calmly walked up and shot 24 year old liko
Kenny in the head the man that's faster than you are 49 year old Gregory Floyd was a former Marine and Off the Grid
back Woodsman he and his wife and son also named Gregory lived just below the poverty line
Floyd had had 16 back surgeries and was relying on social security disability checks to get by his wife was in a car
accident and used a cane to walk and she rarely left the house The Floyds purchased their property with
the proceeds of a disability settlement Floyd got after a back injury he suffered on the job
most of their money went to pay for medications Floyd was diabetic he had a heart attack in 2006 and was on 22
different medications including antidepressants the older Gregory Floyd father Floyd had
been arrested in Georgia in 1981 for selling PCP and pot and was prohibited by law from owning
Firearms which did not prevent him from keeping lots of guns stashed away at his home
he and his wife apparently were both big gun enthusiasts about 10 years before the fatal traffic
stop the police were sent out to the Floyd property when neighbors turned Floyd in for firing automatic weapons on
his property at night on multiple occasions they told police that Floyd became paranoid when he took his medications
both sets of neighbors appear to be afraid of Floyd obtaining a search warrant for Floyd's
Home Police found six guns this is in a May 1997 search Floyd handed them over without incident
but the next day Floyd threatened to sick his attack dog on and shoot a meter reader who was just doing his job on the
Floyd property when police came to arrest him for this incident Floyd went off on a rant about his
constitutional rights he raved to the cops I know you wear vests so I will have to put it right between your eyes
I'm an ex-marine and I don't miss while police were cuffing him Floyd tried to knee one of them in the groin
he posted 150 dollar bail and later pled guilty to attempted assault of a State Trooper
he received a suspended prison sentence of one to three years on the condition that he stay out of trouble
it wasn't until after this conviction that his felony arrest in Georgia was uncovered which revealed that because he
had a felony conviction he was not supposed to own any guns so he was arrested again
and another search conducted of his home resulted in seven more guns being confiscated somehow Floyd managed to
evade conviction for the threats to the meter reader and the gun possession charges and things seemed to calm down
for Floyd until this 2007 shooting of leeco Kenny so he could have something maybe a couple screws loose or maybe
it's just a crazy SOB maybe no screws at all right he's held together by duct tape and
chewing gum so back at the scene of the officer McKay and leeco Kenney shootings
when officer Blanchard asked Floyd if he was okay Floyd said quote I'm fine that
was the 43rd person I've killed I had three tours in Vietnam I'm a marine I know how to use a gun I don't know who
the f he is he's talking about liko I don't know who the f is under the car meaning McKay but God damn nobody's
going to run somebody over and just run them down two times right in front of me
I've been around the world and I'm not putting up with that crap this is quoted in the book Bad Blood
I mean I I don't know like you review this and you feel like you're you're reading a movie script
well you know it's an officer so I I mean it takes a lot of balls to get out of your vehicle with no weapon
after you see uh officer gunned down or no screws as we pointed out right and so
um I don't know well the day after the shootings the New Hampshire attorney general held a press conference that
stated that officer McKay's dash cam and Radio Calls had provided the following information
McKay observed a Toyota driving on Route 116 was speeding and had expired registration
I want to cut in for a minute here I have no idea how McKay would have saw the expired
tags the expiration on these tags right they're they're they're traveling toward
one another it seems like a difficult thing to spot and I know that in some states they don't even put the tag on
the front of the vehicle but that that's just an aside here right well unless they they do have
computers that can read the license plate is is it possible that something uh triggered it for him right he didn't
have to visual I got you that all he had to do was drive past him you're right I
I just wonder about the technology in an area that has three full-time police officers but who knows anyway he he's
got he's got supervision either way and he saw that it was expired the the statement goes on to say when
pulled over the driver liko Kenny asked for another officer then drove away McKay pursued and overtook McKay then
pulled in front of Kenny's car forced it off the road and used pepper spray on the driver and his passenger Kenny then
drew a handgun and shot McKay then ran him over another area man Gregory Floyd observed
the shooting from his truck he retrieved officer McKay's gun he then shot Kenny when he told authorities Kenny refused
to put down his gun the Attorney General concluded quote Gregory Floyd's actions were Justified
based upon dangerous circumstances confronted with efforts to assist McKay end quote Floyd would not be charged and
officer McKay died a hero I wanted to make sure we read that statement because there's a lot of people that have a lot
of questions speculation and suspicions regarding this whole thing that went down well we
have crazy Floyd saying that he doesn't know who liko is or McKay but there's some speculation that he actually knew
officer McKay yes I was looking for good proof on that speculation to which I could not find it could you no but I'd
certainly saw the speculation we're not talking about an area where a ton of people live there
and the the other weird thing too so you'd know the officers well but then you have to wonder does McKay know Floyd
right it seems likely Floyd would know McKay or no of McKay because you only have three officers but
there's also speculation that Floyd was leaving from the same place that liko Kenny and Caleb had just left
what I heard as a rumor is liko and his buddy are buying their booze buying their cranberry juice and
Floyd sees them and actually calls McKay to let McKay know hey your buddy liko is
here and he has some booze on him and then that's how McKay started pursuing liko
now again I don't know other than the speculation I've heard in multiple places I can't
find that to be fact well after the funerals for the two dead men a Groundswell of anger and protest began
some people believe that officer McKay was hardly the innocent victim hero While others believed that liko got what
he deserved and still others questioned why exactly convicted felon Gregory Gregory Floyd was permitted to shoot
someone to death and walk away newspapers demanded the release of Officer McKay's dash cam footage
suspecting that he had antagonized liko tensions ran so high that officials they
formed a committee to encourage an exchange of facts instead of rumors and grudges the committee did not take sides
but issued a report that said that it's likely both murders could have been prevented if quote either liko Kenny had
more respect for the law or Bruce McKay had more skill at Conflict Management end quote or both is where you take that
statement a little bit further yeah or if Lika Kenny wasn't carrying a gun so you want to get your thoughts here
because we discussed our thoughts a bit on the first arrest from 2003. now we have this this double shooting here
where the first video my very basic and general opinion of the two the first video liko is annoying defiant to the
end he won't let up he's pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing the officer I actually think that McKay
handled the first incident very well I I don't know that I give him an A plus I give him like a B minus
which I think is acceptable right I I have like the a total reverse of opinion on this situation
I almost feel like McKay should have been in total control I won't say that he got what he deserved
that seems like too cruel of a statement or a thought for me to even have yeah that is but it really feels to me like
this is the reversal where McKay was really pushing the envelope and really could have just controlled this
situation in a much better manner no one had to be killed that day let alone two
people here's a difficult thing though is McKay knows liko for now several years we now know that his behavior his
Antics his aggression his violence is ramping up hmm so you have to keep that in mind that
this officer knows this this individual very well I question how did he know liko was there I questioned was the
actual reason uh did he get a call from Floyd did he pull him over and then see that the the registration was expired
and I was able to ask my father retired police officer retired detective what do
you see in this video and one of the things that he thought was interesting was when you are following a car and you
are the loan officer that you wouldn't make a move to get in front of that car protocol would be just to follow that
car until backup comes or until that car stops we don't see that here that makes me
believe that he knew Floyd was behind him that he knew he knew Floyd and possibly
friends with him because he makes a maneuver as if there's two officers there and
there wasn't then you get in front of liko and then you ram his car now I don't know if that
was an accident or if that was on purpose but again you know this individual you're the officer you're the one that's
trying to you should be controlling this situation not escalating it not throwing
gasoline onto a fire if you know that this individual is not stable maybe not mentally stable you are throwing
gasoline on that fire by ramming that individual and I think you can tell that by
the passenger and liko's car and and the eyewitness and then you go and again instead of waiting for officers instead
of uh waiting for backup you go and instead of trying to talk to liko you go and pepper spray him throwing gasoline
on the fire again foreign [Music] cheers thanks for joining us in the garage and thanks for telling a friend
thanks for telling a friend that's right I got a few thoughts here captain and you're going to hear every one of them
we don't have time for your thoughts this is just like a weird weird colliding of Worlds here for me
because what I feel like is we have four people in the middle of the situation well five if you include uh the younger
Gregory Floyd who was driving the truck the real victim to me seems like this Caleb individual that's sitting
passenger seat in liko's car he seems completely terrified and almost Frozen in the moment not really knowing what to
do not knowing how to react and here's the other thing had we had other individuals just not react it
wouldn't have gone this far I feel like we have McKay jumping his vehicle in front of likos
because he's coming up at the end of his jurisdiction at the line that cuts off his jurisdiction I almost feel like this
is a situation where McKay thought you know what I'm going to pin him down inside my
jurisdiction because he fled the scene I'm going to do some property damage to his his vehicle
and I'm gonna get out I'm gonna pepper spray this kid and when the other officer shows up which I know is in
route according to my radio or at least according to what we've been told was said the audio is conveniently not there
or maybe inconveniently not there I don't know how you want to spend that but the easiest thing to do would have been
like you just said before the break to continue to pursue leeco Kenny he's going to run out of gas or stop
eventually we know according to Caleb that he was intent on going to his family's property
you could have simply followed him there stayed inside your vehicle and when the
other officer arrived the other officer could have taken over the situation but possibly the other officer gets
killed because I think there's enough evidence to prove that there was something happening with liko Kenny
mentally with his mental health I think that look the the victims are the family of these two individuals
because both their deaths or cause by cause and effect and and adding fuel to the fire and
never backing down it's almost like these two bulls that were on a collision course for the
last four years right and that's that's what I'm getting at cause and effect I think the most effective way to control
the situation would have been to continue to to follow the suspect right and wait for the other
officer to take over the situation we can't get into what ifs after that we we just don't know
um but there is protocol that could have been followed and I think that McKay went out of his way to not follow that
protocol I think he went out of his way to really turn into a bully in this situation where I didn't see that in the
2003 arrest the other thing too and I want to throw these other stories aside because I
really wanted to form an opinion on what I thought of the situation inside of what we see on camera inside what we
hear from the witness statements later I didn't want to get into this whole Floyd
and McKay were friends I couldn't I couldn't find any proof that the two of them were friends it's just some
speculation I saw a lot of speculation on that the issue being here is I don't think the two types line up well to be
friends one it doesn't seem like Floyd had any friends it seemed like it would be very difficult to be a friend of his
either way it's a two-way street yeah the thing I argue is that the community is so small that it would be almost
impossible not to think of them as acquaintances and then the other thing too is we have on the reverse of that
McKay who by most accounts his personality was he was black and white he was wrong and right and he wouldn't I
don't know that he would have been friends with somebody of Floyd's character or past so that one
seems a little weird to me and that's why I wonder if we just have a weird situation where three Worlds Collide
where you have Kenny who seems to be spiraling out of control and then we have McKay who with inside
this situation is obviously losing control and then Floyd who knows when's the last time he had any control at all
it's just a weird weird tragic situation all fooled with bad filled with bad behavior and fueled with bad blood well
and to back up the cause and effect we have a retired officer saying hey that's a maneuver to get in front of the person
that's not something you do unless you had backup so he saw that as being wrong he saw ramming liko's car as being a way
that you're escalating the situation and then you get out you're not protected if
you're so fearful why isn't your gun drawn uh why aren't you trying to talk to the individual you do none of that
you go up and and pepper spray so those are multiple things that a retired police officer which will normally
always go to bat for police officer saying those don't make sense to me those aren't those aren't actions I
would have done yeah and I I tell you what this might not be a a popular opinion to have but I do believe
that the the Floyd shooting Kenny I agree with the decision that it was justifiable I also think that really
that committee broke it down to the best of what what I believe that wasn't that
ruled within like 24 hours yeah I'm not I'm not saying I never said that I agree
with the time frame in which You released your your decision I just agree with the the decision right
my two my two problems is again because you have a grieving family take a little more time try to be a little
more understanding of the situation and on top of that when you release this video footage why is the audio
compromised was this compromised by Officer McKay or was this compromised by the committee who released this video
because that to me seems suspicious and and I think uh the Kenny family has the right to go hey this does this
doesn't make a lot of sense on the same token we have a family that has been dealing with the Antics and the
behavior and I think the mental instability of liko and I and I wish again we just don't talk
about mental health enough enough and I think sometimes when and somebody's going down the wrong path we we start
thinking that that's alcohol abuse or drug abuse when it really might just be a imbalance and somebody that needs
mental health help yeah I I do like that committee's decision or at least their statement of what they said
in regards to both of these murders could have been prevented if either one of these individuals would have behaved
differently or had more respect for the law or each other right you know I think
that that is really what I see here as well and then my thoughts on the audio itself I almost feel like I would like a
statement in regards to that why it is what it is on the the public view of the dash cam footage I almost my my own
personal belief would be that if it was compromised before it was released I feel like they would just have removed
all of the audio rather than have it kick on at the end to notify us that hey it's it's not there and now it's here I
actually don't believe it kicked on at the end well I mean I'm telling you it did unless somebody went out I mean I've
applied it to the video I've watched it when when it starts to fade in it's it's almost like uh there's a gate
almost like there's a gate on the audio or that the that the audios just turn way down and because
something happens whether it's the gunshots or the sirens blaring that that's where why you can hear that loud
peak of sound but those low level of a car driving or McKay talking and radio radioing something in would be low
enough of a volume that we wouldn't be able to hear right and that's what I'm getting at I'm wondering if that is
something that McKay would have had control over inside the vehicle yeah I just wish either one or both of these
individuals would have had more respect for each other and and there's no reason
either one of them should have lost their lives over this but I guess that's not the complete end of speculation in
regards to officer McKay because there's some discussion out there that he may be
involved or have some knowledge of another case that we've talked about several times on this show and that's
The Disappearance of Mara Murray and True Crime garage was lucky enough to speak with Aaron Larkin someone who has
spent a lot of time looking into the mara Murray case foreign [Music] I want to thank you for taking the time
to speak with me you're the host of 107 degrees a podcast about the missing person Mara Murray and one of the
leading experts on this case I appreciate that how did you get involved in the marmary case it was sort of a
slow process slow build but I actually was on the track team with Maura we weren't friends but I remember when she
disappeared and then a few years ago I saw that there was this podcast and I started
following up and trying to see like where the case was and learning more and saw that there was a lot of
misinformation out there and thought I might be able to help in some way and what's your degree in political
science and I have a master's in quantitative methods in political science and I'm ABD in a PhD program so
this was just kind of a labor of love yeah I mean I think that there was a lot of things that I identified with with
the Murrays and the idea that my family could be going sort of a horrifying thought so that was
definitely part of it as well so when did Bruce McKay show up on your radar as you looked into
the Mario Murray case maybe like a year or two into it I was looking through the
dispatch logs and I saw that there was this officer who was unresponsive and at a at a motel
like around 9 30 the night more disappeared and I thought oh well Maura was looking for a motel maybe I'll maybe
this has something to do with something and so I looked other places where he was in the log
and saw that he seems to have dropped everything that he was doing the minute after the 9-1-1 call came in
from Faith Westman where they first reported Moore's accident from that point from 720
forward he was essentially off radio and and counted for so that's what was the first
thing that made me a little bit curious about what he was doing Samara wrecks her car in 2004. there's neighbors and
we know there's a bus driver that is calling 9-1-1 to report this wreck right this officer Bruce McKay is responding
to a suicide call yeah so it was a pretty serious one too because the guy had had his guns
confiscated by police earlier in the day and there's actually a note in the log that says they don't think that they got
them all so then later on in the evening he's threatening suicide and may have guns
and may have um some anger toward police so I would think that that's a situation
where you know it's pretty big emergency do you know what time that call came in
so that call came in just before 7 20 I think it was either 7 19 or 7 17 or something but McKay was the first
officer dispatched and that was at 7 20. so they dispatched him to respond to this uh suicide call do we know if he
would have passed Mara on the route to this suicide so there's no way to really know where he was when he was dispatched
um but there is some evidence to suggest that he may have been in Woodsville because he made a call earlier in the
night around 7 08 pm that appears to be a call to butson's Liquors which is in Woodsville
so that doesn't mean he was certainly doesn't mean that he was in Woodsville but he may have been and then you say
that he he goes off radio around what time uh so he's not heard after after he drops whatever he's doing and goes
somewhere else at 7 28 PM he's not heard from for two hours and dispatch contacts
him and he communicates that he's at a motel but then doesn't communicate why and isn't responsive when they try to
get in touch with him again so basically the idea once he hits your radar is you see that there's a cop working in
the department that should have been investigating this crash I don't know if he should have been investigating it
necessarily but I do think it's quite a coincidence that he he cleared out of this call that he
had been on his way to for seven minutes seven or eight minutes before clearing it so something had to have happened
or I mean he might have run out of gas like that anything could have happened but if you cleared it for a reason that
was work related the only explanation would be that he was going to Moore's accident because there's
nothing else that was occurring at the time nothing so we know that multiple officers were dispatched to this call
right is there any explanation of why he would be dispatched to this call and then not
show up uh not that I'm aware of I mean I think it's possible they just decided not to
send him and send somebody else in his place like within 15 seconds of him clearing it there was another dispatched
officer that was sent out so it seems like they wanted three people there right and
um and as to why why this third officer the fourth really and not McKay I don't I
don't know I mean I guess you probably know a little bit about McKay's personality at this point
maybe it's not the best situation to send him into uh there could be a lot of reasons but
there's no we don't know the answer but it's on record that he was cleared from the call yes we do he was he was well it
just says it was cleared so it the implication is that he was canceled out of the call and we we don't know why and
I actually went to the Littleton Police Department and got the police report of that incident just to make sure that
there wasn't something wrong in the log and maybe he did show up but that wasn't
the case there were only three officers and they were the other three officers that were
listed in the log McKay did not show up right but are you saying that the department told him not to
uh I don't know whether they told him not to or whether he um chose not to for some reason the problem
is that the dispatch logs are a little bit hard to interpret the shorthand of and so I don't want to
I don't want to assume too much but it does say in there that there was an officer that was had referenced that he
was covering a town and asking for another officer to come out it seems possible that
some one of the officers was asking to have another officer be sent in this place and it just so happens that that
is what happened the first police officer is on the scene with the mara Murray crash at what time at 7
46 according to the dispatch log and we have no known whereabouts of Bruce McKay
for roughly two hours yeah and then four for the rest of the evening as well so even
after he he did communicate to dispatch that he was at that Motel after that he didn't respond either and he never
there's no record of him signing off his shift or anything like that so pretty much the rest of the night we
don't know where he was now did they have to return vehicles at the end of their shift or did they just drive home
and in their own view that I'm not sure honestly um I'm not sure so other than this call that he was
supposed to attend and he never showed up and then we have no record of his whereabouts other than he claims he was
at a hotel uh with no explanation why he is there it seems like he couldn't tell his
Department was at the hotel because I was taking a nap but other than that and other than his behavior
towards because his behavior towards liko was not the only person he was aggressive towards there was other
reports what else what other information do you find interesting about Bruce well
I think that for anyone that knows about the murmurray case there's all these questions that don't seem to add up like
the timeline and whether or not there was another officer on scene before the first official officer
arrived and how Maura disappeared so quickly why eight firefighters two cops and a neighbor all searched west of the
accident and no one even did a cursory search of the East which was the direction that Moore was heading and
that happened to be McKay's jurisdiction so when you when you sort of plug in McKay and overlay him and this whole in
the whole situation some of these things start to make sense how many eyewitnesses do we have
claiming that they saw a officer at the scene of the crash before the official officer showed up at the crash so just
one that I'm aware of that's witness a so she's the one that drove by approximately 10 minutes before the
first reported officer and said that there was the police SUV nose to nose with the Saturn one of the other things
she said was she she saw that vehicle a total of three times twice it passed her going in
the same direction on the left and the third time was at the accident scene for that to have been possible for
it to have passed her twice it had to pass her go off somewhere and then come back and double back one
thing that could potentially explain how how and why that might might have happened is if McKay's heading to to
this other call to this little thing call he hears this accident come in over the
radio and says hey I'm right in the area I'll go go to that he could have doubled back and that's
when she sees him the second time and then the third time was obviously at the accident but the timing works out
pretty perfectly for for that to have been the case but we have no evidence of Bruce radioing in and saying hey I can
go to this no we don't but one of the things that I think I don't want to say like about this
Theory but is different from some of the other theories that have been postulated
in this case is that it is potentially falsifiable and you can follow up on it because what we do know is there's a 25
minute recording that the police have in Moore's file that has all of the dispatch chatter on it from the time
that the um presumably from the time the time when one call came in for the next 25
minutes so from 7 27 to 7 52 I guess right and if he cleared it a 728 there's got to be some chatter
there they they refuse to release that recording right now uh it's unclear why they refused to
release a lot of things yes right which unfortunate because you sort of this question
it's a some of the timeline questions uh regardless like this is something that can be followed up on
one like you said if he passed this witness a to head to the suicide call then another call comes in
and Bruce then thinks I'm right around the corner there's other officers going to the suicide call
let me double back passes witness a again gets to this scene but now once he makes contact or once he arrives at the
scene with Mara this would give him a very small window about 10 minutes to leave the scene yes
I mean it's it's it is short but something something happened and um you know 10 minutes is
it's not an insignificant amount of time really could you tell me off the top of
your head how many people were calling in to 9-1-1 at the time of the crash uh there were two two calls there was two
and then out of all the people that you've talked to is do we have any other eyewitnesses other than those two making
those calls not that I'm aware of because so we have no other neighbors that were possibly looking outside their
window well there was there for the murats they were sort of looking out sporadically they weren't like focused
and staring the whole time but they they did look out a few times and see see somebody walking around the car see they
actually saw the car being moved right during the two 9-1-1 calls though we have uh there's two couples two married
couples that are making the calls so we we have at least a total of four people watching the the scene pretty
intensely or or less intensely but my point being is that you have a 10 minute window
that's not that large you think that these individuals would keep checking out their window nobody ever reports
anything that suspicious but why would you if another officer showed up was there for 10 minutes left and then
you next time you looked out the window there's another officer you might not even know that that's a new officer
exactly it like I think who better would be able to hide in plain sight and not necessarily
um stand out it's just they look out their window they say blue lights an officer comes to their door they
don't have any reason to think that it wasn't the same officer that they saw 10 minutes before when they looked out
their window do we have any evidence of sexual assaults that Bruce might uh been responsible for or any violations
when he has pulled over other individuals I mean so there were I know that there were a number of
complaints about him I don't know how typical it is for any given officer to have a series of complaints I mean I'm
sure they all have some um but I think that his tended to be instances where he failed to de-escalate situations
and he was certainly um reprimanded for breaking protocol a number of times I mean
not to be insensitive but he sort of met his demise as a result of breaking protocol
a number of times it might fall on his own rules be making up the law instead of enforcing that yeah
operating outside of his jurisdiction using his own personal vehicle to police stuff that really maybe should have
given them a sign that he shouldn't have been a police officer but uh but then besides that yeah he did
have a restraining order taken out against him by his wife for domestic violence
and as a result he shouldn't have had a gun at all which is a problem and according to
Franconia police they quote misplaced that record it disappeared yeah it's funny how audio has disappeared
with Bruce McKay and now these records just disappear and we have really no knowledge if if the call to the suicide
was canceled or if it disappeared and then and then he goes off radio for multiple hours comes back on radio with
no clear reason why and then he disappears again correct and so like you said there's possibly
some domestic violence in his past do we know if Bruce had any uh substance abuse issues
let's talk about that because I I don't know for sure right I have there are some indications that that
could be the case but it's really impossible for me to say any other thing during your investigation of the mara
Murray case anything else that has stuck out to you about Bruce McKay um yeah there's so
I don't know if you read the part of about him being a prosecutor for for the town and for the state so Not
only was he a police officer but he also prosecuted cases and called himself as a
witness is that like a conflict of interest yes it is and I don't think is there any other states that do that but
in New Hampshire you can still be a a prosecutor and a police officer even despite the fact that you don't have a
law degree so you can be a prosecutor you can be pretending to be a lawyer without a law degree right and without
being held to the same standards as barred lawyers would be and all of that stuff but anyway so he
you would actually make money with every arrest so because you can he can arrest he can
charge them and then he he makes the money Prosecuting them right so I think in that Boston magazine
article it said that he he had like 300 stops compared to the other two officers
combined 11. and yeah I think part of that is some obsession with being in authority and a
power trip and maybe some sadistic Tendencies but also he made money it was just like basic
like he just wanted to make money too right so I think that you know when I when I think about what could have
happened if he did encounter her that night I mean did he try to arrest her for leaving the scene of an accident
when she was just trying to make a cell phone call or anything anything he could have arrested
her for but we don't have so we don't even know if he showed up to tomorrow's scene and called that in
exactly but that could be on the audio file of the dispatch log that the cops or are not disclosing to the to the
public it could be anything else that you have uncovered about Bruce McKay um so far
I'm reluctant to talk about the rumors because they are just rumors I'm fine with the
speculation I mean we're going forward knowing that there are rumors is there one that you can throw out well for
this is not a rumor he he did actually take out a second mortgage on his house three days later
okay um after she disappeared and then an additional line of credit for I think ten thousand dollars a month later that
could be entirely unrelated like I think 2004 the interest rates were pretty low
like historically low so right I mean it could mean nothing at all but I did I did think that was somewhat interesting
and as far as I can tell and from talking to people in his world they're not sure
where that money went or what it was for so that's something that I would if I had the ability to I would look look
into further and then about that specific Hotel I mean he was a single guy and he was known to stay at that
hotel from time to time not really making any judgment there but it is a place that he seemed to frequent
with with um yes but like actually uh females that go on dates with or whatever are these paid female friends from what
I have been told yeah they may have been transactional I don't know why I'm dancing around this
but because it's not proven and I want to be really careful about that but right but yeah they people that worked
there had noticed that he he stayed there well it's it's weird too you wonder you
know infidelity is is very high when it comes to officers um well he wasn't married at the time
either so right but but I'm saying the ones that are married the the rate of infidelity is pretty high so it's so
what's weird to me is you don't hear from your offers there's you don't hear from your officer
that doesn't show up to a scene for two hours when you do hear from him he's basically
says oh by the way I was at this hotel then you don't hear from him for the rest of the night to me that would be
like some red flag but if this hotel was something that dispatch knew that McKay
would frequent or other officers would go to from time to time then when he calls back in after two hours and hey I
was at the hotel they go oh well we know why he was there you know what I mean like yeah it seems funny to me that
he's coming back and said hey I was at that hotel and it doesn't giant red flag for the Department to go
okay well that's great that you're at the hotel why why were you there for two hours why didn't you show up to this
call right so I did hear from Chuck West last year he he did explain to me that McKay was at what he told me was that he
was there that night because he was responding to a theft that had been reported and that's why he
wasn't on radio and that's why he was in in the motel that night so I pulled the records for that incident
and it had actually occurred several days before and uh McKay had filed that report away
by Monday afternoon and so I don't know if officer West's just didn't maybe he confused the police
report date with the uh with the incident date right but he he hasn't responded to my follow-up
questions yet um but when I when I got those reports the what I noticed is that there were
more than a few times that McKay called in at that motel and for a walk-throughs
late in the evening right and I don't know what a walk through is I like my I always interpreted that as
when somebody comes home and they see like their doors a little ajar right and they have the the cops like go through
and clear basically make sure that there's no bad guys hiding out somewhere but I don't know what that means for a
hotel necessarily yeah maybe possibly the same thing yeah maybe and I know that they did have a bar in a restaurant
at that point too they don't anymore but right so it could be a situation like I know in my small town that there
was a restaurant that was connected to a bar that was connected to a hotel and and that was the primarily primarily a
place that the truckers and a lot of people coming just for the night would visit so cops would multiple times a
night especially on like Fridays and Saturday nights do walk-throughs at the bar yeah so I think I guess that's
probably what it is um it's a little unclear but yeah which is tough because when you're looking
into this missing person case and you have a couple things that don't sit well with you you think that these would be
answers that department for me okay we have this investigator poking her head around
and bringing up some things to our attention why not just give her the answer I don't know
I don't know and unless you can't well that's possible but I do know that last uh when the oxygen show came out
there was a a person who who came forward with the tip after seeing like the first episode I think
and it had to do with McKay and somebody that lives up in the area and the police took two and a half years
to call her back wow yeah and so and just my impression from speaking to them I believe that they believe
that no cop could ever have anything to do with anything nefarious right I think that sometimes their bias gets
in the way and they don't want to look into it because even just looking into it
perhaps is offensive in some in some way no I think there's a lot of cops that they're good guys
they're solid guys with solid morals just like my father was a a street cop and then a detective for many years and
when you bring these things to his attention and having him look at Bruce McKay's videotapes
it doesn't make any sense to him and it almost boggles his mind because that is not his personality that's not his set
of moral standards that's not why he wore the badge to Serve and Protect so it becomes this this thing that they
can't even it's hard for them to wrap their head around right and then they become very defensive of officers in
almost every scenario when I sent the videos to my father about this case I was expecting a laundry list of what
liko did and what the Bruce did but within his rights as an officer and that is not the feedback I got the feedback I
got was these actions don't make a lot of sense yeah and I mean I obviously law enforcement as a topic is very divisive
in the marmary world but and of course you always have those people that think that all cops are
Sinister and the other side things all they're all Heroes yeah but I think if nothing else
with the McKay liko situation proves is that there are two sides to law enforcement and there are two sides in
that area and one of them that was on duty the night that Maura disappeared is it likely or not likely that Bruce McKay
was involved in The Disappearance of Mara Murray I think that the most likely outcome is like statistically speaking
is probably something we've never heard of and a person whose name we've never heard
[Music] but of the theories that are out there I think that this one at least possible holds a little water
it it does and I think it's possible that answering some of the questions about what hap what he was doing that
night could potentially lead to answers about Maura I think that there's circumstantial evidence for sure
that he was headed to her accident and that fact even the detectives in her case have not disagreed with me about
they just say that there's no evidence that he was at her accident right so there possibly could be evidence that
would show us that again like we said that he canceled him being dispatched to the suicide call rerouted himself to go
to this crash scene that shows up at the crash scene we know that she's in a state that she didn't want
law enforcement there even if he did even if he did show up at the at the scene there's no evidence that he did
anything tomorrow but I think it's something that can be followed up on and should be followed up on and I think
almost the worst case that I think is perhaps the most possible is that he did show up to the scene she wasn't there he
kept going but they don't want to let that out because of his reputation right because of how
it could potentially like blow up in their face well and potentially they don't have answers because Bruce is
deceased we do not have answers and possibly will never know what he was doing at that hotel for about two hours
and then what he was doing the rest of his shift do you know what time roughly his shift ended that night
I believe that he was on the 4 to 11 or um yeah but it's it's unclear because he don't
he never doesn't actually sign off so I'm not I'm not positive so it's almost four hours three and a half four hours
of his shift that he's unaccounted for and if if that was my employee I would want to know where they were and what
work they were doing all right Aaron thank you so much for joining us here in the garage what's the best way for a
listener to dive into your investigation of Mara Murray probably the podcast it's
called 107 degrees warmery foreign [Music] case do we have any recommended reading
this week here we go Captain a big cheers goes out to New York Times best-selling author J.R Ward there are
more than 15 million copies of Ward's novels in print worldwide published in 25 different countries around the globe
Ward's latest novel The Sinner mentions True Crime garage and we are forever thankful to J.R Ward so check out the
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premium until next week be good be kind and don't let it foreign [Music]

Liko Kenney /// Part 2 /// 389

Part 2 of 2

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Brief Summary

Liko Kenney's traffic stop escalates into a deadly confrontation with police, resulting in two fatalities and community outrage.

Key points

The Fatal Traffic Stop. Liko Kenny's encounter with Officer McKay escalates into a deadly confrontation.
Gregory Floyd's Justification. Gregory Floyd shoots Liko Kenny after witnessing the police shooting.
The Aftermath of Violence. The community reacts to the deaths of Liko Kenny and Officer McKay.
Questioning Officer McKay's Actions. Doubts arise about McKay's decision-making and knowledge of the situation.
The Escalation of Tension. The situation spirals out of control as McKay's actions lead to tragic consequences.
The Victims of the Incident. The focus shifts to the individuals caught in the chaos, particularly Caleb, the terrified passenger.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This horrific event still is not over.

The ongoing consequences of the shooting

10:13WatchNov 15, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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