Lavender Scare | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

my name is Helen Grace James was born in 1927 in Scranton Pennsylvania and I was raised on a dairy farm
I was very busy kid I worked on the farm I loved the animals I I was dependent upon to do certain
chores when I was old enough I was milking cows I was driving the tractor I was helping with the harvests when she
was old enough to drive she delivered orders from her father's butcher shop every Saturday it was a military family
her great-great-grandfather was a Union soldier her father was in World War One her uncles in World War II her cousins
were in the Army and Navy so I I liked I liked the military because I would talk
to them and it just seemed like a a wonderful place to be to be helping our country
as I thought of it they were there to help fight the wars or you know be engaged in
in taking care of us as as civilians she wanted to enlist but she was too young so she went to college and got a degree
in physical education she moved to Florida where family friends helped her get a job as a teacher but I always had
the yearning I taught there for three years and then decided to enlist my parents
I don't know if they expected it or they they were you know they were supportive what
year was this I and I enlisted in in 52. she was assigned to basic training in Texas and flew from Philadelphia to San
Antonio it was her first time on an airplane did you get your clothing you get your shots you get you know and
you're assigned to a flight with Airmen that are coming in at the same time and what was your job in the
Air Force I was a radio operator so I learned code I learned to type code I learned to take and type code and send
and receive was it fun were you happy to be you continuing this family tradition
well I don't know I loved it I met P I'm you know I I grew up on a farm I graduated in a a class of 17 you know it
was it was Farm country it was um I hadn't met a lot of people from from other areas
I enjoyed what I did I I loved the Air Force it was fun it was exciting and it was teaching me a job that I thought was
was really important she was responsible for contacting military bases up and down the East Coast every hour on the
hour they kept a close eye on each plane to see whether anyone deviated from a scheduled flight path
she was assigned to a permanent station Roslin Air Force Base on Long Island we were part of the 26th air division
Defense command and we had constant communication with other bases along the coast Mitchell and and
Andrews we had being you know alerting anything that might be untoward it was cold war we were kind of on alert
all the time Helen svener days watching and listening during a period of intense suspicion and
paranoia in America she had no idea that she herself was being watched I'm Phoebe judge this is
Criminal [Music] we heard through other Airmen from other from other bases that there was an
investigation going on and that was that was kind of a rumor and you know come to find out they were
already investigating us which they had been doing for a while which of course we didn't know
investigating you for what for where we went we were being followed we were being watched
I had a car so at one point one of my friends and I went to went to get a sandwich at a at a little
restaurant and it was a place that it was really busy and so we decided to take our
sandwiches and and go find a place to talk one of us had just gotten off duty I think and and uh so we were hungry and
we parked and started to eat our sandwiches and and up behind us came um an Arab policeman with the lights on
and wanted to know what we were doing and that that was that was very eerie that was very
frightening that was I'm you know it's like why are you asking me that and why were you
following me and you know it it came about really quickly we sometimes we would go
we would go down to the Village and um we could we could um we could play music on a jukebox and
dance and these were places that were uh just for women and uh so there was a jukebox they could dance
and and there were guards out there was a guard outside so that it it kept it safe and it that uh they didn't allow
they didn't allow males in there so The OSI the office of special investigation apparently had uh
gotten permission somehow one night when we were there and they were sitting in a in a booth
and they begin to harass me and others and uh what were they saying ask me what I was doing there and uh
you know I would I was not very comfortable with them and so I I just turned away but they
wanted to know why I was there and what I was doing and and how come I was in this place and
and so they stayed seated and I I just knew that they didn't belong in there and so it was Eerie it was frightening
it was we I knew that they were they had they were in there because we were there
were they they were investigating you because uh because you were gay yeah that we were considered to be
um a threat to the security of the nation how because we could be compromised and and uh
at in those days it uh it apparently wasn't it wasn't okay to be okay or lesbian
it was frowned upon and and you could be outed and compromised by the enemy so to speak uh and tell any
secrets that we had or you know we were just considered to be a threat to National Security
so they wanted us gone yeah they had bugged our room or they had someone in the room next to us and they could
hear that you know they had had their room bugged somehow when we would get in late at night there
were there were Airmen that were assigned apparently to to watch us when we came in and to
you know if we stopped at the latrine they would you know might be two o'clock in the morning and and we were
washing our hands and they an Airman would come in which would is usually unlikely because it's two o'clock in the
morning so it became very unnerving you know to be followed and to be watched did you start to suspect that everyone
was watching you yes you can imagine it's it's just a place that you worked and did your work and
and people were watching you people were people that didn't seem to notice you before were
were watching you once you realized you were being watched did you change your behavior stay away
from people I changed the way I felt I wasn't sleeping very well I was probably drinking
though I could sleep it you know it wears on you it you you don't know who's watching you
it might be anybody and uh we were scared all the time and um and then finally we were there were
three of us that were arrested [Music] started to the grill us about what our thoughts were uh
[Music] suspecting us of doing things I guess that we I don't know I don't know it was
it was constant it was um hours and hours of at one point I needed to go to the latrine and
of course the officer went with me I was and I I think I threw up I didn't feel good
we had been I had been there for I don't know how many hours and finally the threats began
the uh the gentleman that that was questioning us began to threaten to go to my parents to go to my friends to go
to people that I knew to tell them that I was you know a threat to the nation and the bad
person apparently and and I finally said you know just write down whatever you want to write down and
I'll sign it and that's what they did what he did he wrote it down I signed it I didn't read
what he said what were the charges I don't know what was on that paper I never looked at it
but I you know it was because I was a lesbian this was happening all over the country
men and women who worked for the government were interrogated about their sex lives and fired it was called the
lavender scare it coincided with the Red Scare which gave rise to the house on American
Activities Committee and senator Joseph McCarthy's hearings to try to expose communists
thousands and thousands of people were fired during the lavender scare under an executive order signed by President
Eisenhower that order remained in place until 1995 when President Clinton implemented don't
ask don't tell when they first came into the barracks that day did you have any idea what was
going on no I mean I assume you've never been arrested or questioned before that's
right when they were asking you these questions what what kinds of questions were they asking you were they asking
you about your whereabouts or or movements or relations with other women um one of the things that they did was they
involved you know how did I feel about my sister how did I feel about my mother I mean
it just and that's why I threw up I think I just got so upset with it that I decided I you know
just write something down I'll sign it so when they asked you about you know dating women did you kind of say EE
yes what's wrong with that I probably did you know I I can't recall all the things that I said I I just was
feeling so put upon you know the very idea that they would considers my sister or
anyone school made or you know that was they wanted to know things that I like didn't know I didn't know how to answer
and I didn't have I didn't have answers for and I and they were just uncomfortable and they got more
uncomfortable and uh and then they began to threaten threaten me with exposure to my family to my friends you know
in those days and you're probably quite Young in those days it was not was not talked
about that I remember I didn't know about gay or lesbian I don't think I ever heard the term
when I was in high school and uh feelings that I had I enjoyed being I because I was on a farm maybe I
grew up doing all the things that that the girls and boys did the farm work so I loved being with god with boys and and
Men because they talked about things that I that I liked and enjoyed you know I drove tractor I drove horses
I I did I helped build things with my dad and um and I enjoyed that what did you do right after you signed
the papers what happened next I had to clear the base it was about two weeks that you had to
clear the base and and I also had I had applied for a commission actually and the commission came through
during the time that I was being discharged so I actually had two discharges one as an Airman and one as the second
lieutenant I just stayed low did other people you had to stay on the base for two
weeks did other people on the base know what had happened in everybody on the base knew everybody in the on the
station knew I just did what I had to do and and uh waited to get out but you know had no money no no support
at all I couldn't tell my family I couldn't tell my friends I couldn't tell my former classmates uh
I I had hoped to make a career of the Air Force I loved it I really loved the Air Force I loved serving I loved
the work that I did until until this came about so your parents never really they just never talked to
them never and I left the East Coast immediately after get away from it all yeah
I didn't know anybody that was good started a new life she got a job working as a physical
therapist in California her practice grew she made new friends and she tried to forget what happened to
her in 1955. who had you talked to about your discharge nobody it was it was disgraceful it was a stain
on my my family that was involved in this you know oh especially military family
all the other people in my family had served honorably I felt I had to to keep it under seal
I just stuffed it decades passed this way and then in 2016 she met a fellow veteran a medic not
sure how I'd come up but I I felt okay with saying yeah I got a bad discharge and she and I she said do something
about that well I didn't know that I couldn't do anything about it until you know she talked to me and so we went
down and that's when we got it started we went down and uh started the complaint and
I told my story I I told what had happened to me and I wrote I wrote it all out that's the first time I had ever written
it all out how old were you how old was I then I was uh yes I guess it was uh 89.
[Music] 64 years after Helen James was kicked out of the Air Force she applied for an
honorable discharge she worked with the Fresno County VA and they helped her get in touch with a
legal aid attorney to start the process the Air Force didn't you know they waited it was they they said they had 18
months before they had to you know get back to us so we waited 18 months and uh one of the things that had
happened in the meanwhile was that I needed to get a hold of my personnel file so that I could show that I didn't
do anything wrong that I was a good uh was a good Airman you know I did my duty but apparently those records had been
burned in a fire from there it was hiccup after hiccup preventing Helen's complaint from being
handled and so her legal aid attorney teamed up with the D.C law firm and they filed a lawsuit they told the Air Force
they had 14 days to respond and that went in on the 2nd of January 2018 and on January 11 2018
my story came out in the Washington Post in the Washington Post that wonderful paper
uh I guess that's when the Air Force decided that it was time to address it and they approved my
discharged as a an honorable discharge what was it like having your story be so public after it being private I don't
know if I can explain it you know because it's a constant thing it's in my it's in my head now
uh and people know about it and you know I never told my folks about it but they know now
and uh I've you know I've I've been back east and talked to my family and they've read
my incident report and they they know me now as you know that and my cousins and and uh
my classmates from college and uh my godson and yeah yeah I I put it out there for them
do you ever go to events for veterans uh of course I didn't used to but yeah I do
it's a community it's uh it's family with the veterans you know you know that they know who you
are where you've been what you're doing regardless of of whatever what branch you are in
uh yeah it's uh it's an amazing community to be a part of I'm honored by it [Music]
a couple of weeks ago at 91 years old she marched in the Fresno California Pride Parade oh gosh oh God that was
really fun I was the Grand Marshal in the parade it was just surreal to know that there are so many people out
there that are with me that care about me and and care about each other well I want to thank you so much for
speaking to me for all this time today we took a lot of your time oh Phoebe thank you so much you've been just
so nice and and you just take care of yourself you too will speak soon okay thanks okay bye bye bye bye
[Music] criminal is produced by Lauren Spore Nadia Wilson and me audio mix by Rob
Byers matild or fellino is our intern Julian Alexander creates original illustrations for each episode of
Criminal you can see them at thisiscriminal.com where on Facebook and Twitter at criminal show
criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina public radio wunc we're a proud member of radiotopia
from PRX a collection of the best podcasts around special thanks to adserc for providing their ad serving platform
to radiotopia I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal [Music] [Music]

Helen James grew up in a military family — her great great grandfather fought in the Civil War, her father in WWI, and her uncles in WWII. So when she enlisted in 1952, she felt like she belonged. Shortly after, she realized something was wrong.

Today we talk to one of the officers impacted by a campaign to remove gay and lesbian members of the U.S. Army in the 1950s.

Music in the episode “Bridgewalker” by Blue Dot Sessions (original music) “Slow Line Stomp” by Blue Dot Sessions “Cicle Deserrat” by Blue Dot Sessions “Envira” by Blue Dot Sessions “Closet Interlude” by Blue Dot Sessions “Shade Ways” by Blue Dot Sessions “Silver Lanyard” by Blue Dot Sessions (original music)

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Join Criminal Plus on Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/Criminal) for ad-free listening, bonus episodes, listener chat rooms, behind-the-scenes content, and more membership perks.

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. https://pod.link/809264944

Say hello on Twitter (https://twitter.com/criminalshow) Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/criminal_podcast) Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thisiscriminal) and TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@criminal_podcast)

Sign up for our occasional newsletter, which includes a note from Phoebe, behind-the-scenes photos, and things our team has been enjoying lately. https://thisiscriminal.com/newsletter

We also make the podcasts This is Love (https://pod.link/1337100398) and Phoebe Reads a Mystery (https://pod.link/1503921457).

Artwork by Julienne Alexander: http://www.yssrs.com/. Check out our online shop: https://shop.thisiscriminal.com/

Episode transcripts are posted on our website https://thisiscriminal.com/.

Episode 93 originally published 6/15/2018 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-93-lavender-scare-06-15-2018

Brief Summary

Helen Grace James shares her military experiences and the Lavender Scare's impact on her life as a lesbian in the Air Force.

Key points

Helen's Military Journey. Helen Grace James shares her experiences growing up on a dairy farm and her military service.
The Lavender Scare. Helen discusses the Lavender Scare and its impact on her life and others like her.
Seeking Justice. After decades, Helen seeks an honorable discharge from the Air Force.
Pride and Recognition. At 91, Helen marches in the Pride Parade, celebrating her identity and community.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I loved the Air Force, it was fun, it was exciting.

Helen reflects on her time in the Air Force.

2:55WatchJan 12, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from Criminal | A Podcast About Crime

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.