Inside the Lori Vallow Daybell Trial: Zombies and Evil Spirits | "48 Hours" Podcast | Forensic Files

foreign state of Idaho plaintiff versus Lori Noreen vallo AKA Lori Narine dabel defendant
[Music] [Applause] welcome to another special episode of 48 hours I'm Jonathan Vigliotti the murder
trial of Idaho mother Lori valadebell is now in its second week She's accused along with her husband Chad dabell of
the unthinkable murdering her two youngest children Joshua JJ valo and Tyler Ryan as well as Chad's late Wife
Tammy dabell prosecutors say the couple killed all three fueled by their end of times beliefs and to steal Social
Security funds and insurance money both have pleaded not guilty the focus of this trial will be the three killings
but Lori dabell also faces murder conspiracy charges in Arizona connected to the 2019 shooting death of her
previous husband Charles valo the perpetrator was Laurie dabel's brother Alex Cox who died months later as the
search for JJ Velo and Tyler Ryan was underway despite massive interest in this trial the judge has barred cameras
from the courtroom so our team is taking the audio from the proceedings and sharing highlights from the trial in
these special episodes today I'm joined by producer Richie Fetzer who's been working with 48 hours
for almost a decade and covering this case from the start when the children were missing but still believed to be
alive Richie welcome hi thank you thanks for joining us let's look back at the first week of the
prosecution's case first off last Tuesday April 11th there's direct questioning of Rexburg Idaho police
detective Ray hermosio what was detective hermosillo's role in this case so detective Ray Hermosillo works with
the Rexburg Police Department he became involved in this case when he was one of
the first investigators to realize that JJ and Tyler were missing and he began to investigate Lori Lori's husband Chad
daybell and Lori's brother Alex Cox so it was just a missing person's case yeah and the detective speaks with Chad dabel
Lori's husband and Alex Cox Lori's brother during this welfare check on JJ that welfare took again instigated by K
Woodcock JJ's grandmother who hadn't been able to reach JJ for months we're gonna play a clip from detective
hermosio as he was in court at that point Alex got a a blank look on his face kind of a frightened look looked over at
Chad dabel who was on the other side of the pickup truck Chad then looked at Alex
and they both kind of just looked at each other and didn't answer my question initially
okay what did you think about that conduct uh it raised some red flags just based
on their the way they acted with that question I I then again asked Alex if you knew where JJ was at and he
stated that JJ was with Kay in Louisiana what did you think of that response I told Alex that wasn't likely because
Kate was the one who called in for the welfare check um and then again they both kind of just
looked at each other which again raised our suspicions so it's very interesting hearing this that you know Alex not
being able to give an answer and then after this Alex even goes on to say that he doesn't have Laurie his sister's
phone number and so does Chad dabell so his testimony didn't stop there we have a clip here of detective hermosio
testifying to prosecutors about his interaction with Chad dabell I asked him how he knew Lori valo
and he stated that he hardly met her hardly knew her that he had only met her a couple of times
okay was there anything suspicious to you about that response there was what was
that we knew that Lori vallo and Chad dabell had been married two weeks prior to my contact
with him but he said he hardly knew her that's great I mean so many red flags that perhaps is
the biggest red flag yeah it makes you wonder what Chad thought the police actually knew at that point because
obviously at this point you know it's only two weeks after he and Lori had gotten married in Hawaii like
it's it's interesting that he didn't think anyone else knew that and as the questioning continues it gets very heavy
very quickly detective Hermosillo goes on to testify about law enforcement finding the
children's remains on chadiable's property first he describes finding JJ I want I want to just warn listeners that
some might find the following details disturbing so fast forward about two minutes or so if you'd like to skip this
next part let's take a listen as they begin removing the top layer of soil it began to expose
three large white rocks and at that point there was a strong odor of uh through my training experience
it was a decomposing body okay is that something you've smelled before unfortunately yes I can't imagine
what it was like inside that courtroom and then after that believe it or not the testimony becomes
even more graphic again another advisory to our listeners they continue to dig around that
what we started to call the burial site and eventually exposed what appeared to be a
small body wrapped in black plastic the remains of J.J valo and then detective goes on to describe finding tylie's
remains eventually we uncovered uh bits and pieces of tiley who we assumed was tiley
um that had been burned I mean Richie you listen to this I I don't know how else to describe it than
just sheer Terror the state in which the remains of these two young children were
found while we don't know exactly what Lori was thinking while listening to this what do we know about how she
perhaps reacted to the detective's testimony the gruesome descriptions of her children's remains being found after
the beginning of this testimony there was a lunch break and Court came back and Lori wasn't in the courtroom so
there was a moment of some confusion you know attorneys were walking in and out of the room and then eventually she was
brought back in and her attorneys the defense team made a request with the judge that she be allowed to to be
excused from the remainder of the day because of how graphic the testimony was so the prosecutors argued that they
wanted her to be there and ultimately the judge agreed with the state and she had to stay for the rest of the day Okay
Lori had to listen to the testimony yeah and the testimony only got more graphic
detective Hermosillo went on to testify more about JJ's remains I saw um a little boy in
red pajamas um he had a white plastic bag around his head several layers of duct tape from his
chin to his forehead area his arms were duct taped with several layers of duct tape his arms were
folded like this across his chest his feet were also duct taped and bound he had a white
and blue child's blanket placed on top of him now Richie I remember and I'm I'm sure you have this
seared into your brain as well when this discovery was first made when it was announced to Media a few years ago
and the first thing I thought about was that duct tape how much of it was used to wrap JJ you
don't use that much duct tape if the person is not responsive or unconscious it definitely takes your mind to some
very dark places and inside the courtroom listening to this there's JJ's grandfather and grandmother how did they
respond so it's been reported that JJ's grandfather Larry Woodcock was crying throughout the testimony which is
understandable I mean it's very graphic and I can only imagine being someone with
a close connection with this child that this is being described about I mean this this was not an accident this
little boy didn't fall into a shallow grave in his pajamas with duct tape tragic there's there's no other way to
put it I think this is a good time to take a quick break when we return Melanie Gibbs testimony about the end of
times zombies evil spirits and more we'll be right back foreign [Music] the prosecutor's call witness who works
at the Madison County Jail where Lori was being held before the children's remains were found while she was facing
child abandonment charges they use this as an opportunity to play audio of a phone conversation between Lori and Chad
why was this so striking so this testimony it's about this phone call that Lori and Chad had literally as
investigators are in his backyard searching for the children on the property at this point they hadn't found
anything yet and you can actually hear Chad filling Lori in on what's Happening properly
[Music] again so the conversation goes on yeah right he says they talk a little longer and
then say goodbye um I don't know right I don't know uh you can try yeah oh that's just like him
[Music] I love you okay I love you now remember this phone call is happening as investigators are there
searching the property and are about to find the children's remains in Shallow Graves Chad would soon find himself
under arrest too Richie let's talk about Chad's late Wife Tammy both Chad and Lori are also charged with her murder
Tammy dabell a mother of five and a librarian dies about two weeks before Chad marries Lori investigators were
suspicious and wanted to know more about Tammy's death so Tammy dabel dies in October of 2019 and her remains are
exhumed in December of that year I remember when that happened and there was a lot of questions of what they
could learn at that point and it was actually revealed or confirmed actually in this
trial that the prosecutors say that she died by asphyxiation so it's going to be
interesting to see what else we learn about her case as the trial continues A lot happened on Wednesday the same is
true for Thursday April 13th Melanie Gibb Lori's former best friend was called to testify on that day she
testifies about the first time that she met Lori which was in 2018 she had already been familiar with Chad
dabell they were kind of acquaintances and Melanie and Lori went to a conference and Melanie testified to
witnessing Lori and Chad's first meeting and you know it's a reminder that at this
time both of them are married to other people and Melanie describes a clear attraction and even describes it as
flirty so one of the things I found most interesting from Melanie's testimony was
when she described how Lori told her that Lori and Chad had been married in previous lives
she shared with me that he told her that they had been married in another time period
and did she tell you what she believed with regard to that she she did believe that she she had
already had the belief system that this multiple lives as they would call it um she'd already believed that before she
physically met him I mean I'm scratching my head here as I listen to this Richie prosecutors have
said that Lori and Chad had religious beliefs about the end of the world what do they mean by that yes Melanie
testified that Lori told her that she and Chad had an important role in the end of times she also described to them
having a light and dark scale where they could actually tell if somebody was light or dark they described that people
could be possessed by an evil spirit and one of those people was Lori's husband at the time Charles valo Chad let her
know that Charles valo was taken over by an evil spirit and that was the first time
she had heard of it and and then you know that made him dark according to them Melanie continues to
talk about how she was involved in these castings that Lori would according to her gather groups together and try to
actually cast out the evil spirit that was inhabiting people's bodies so one of these Spirits they gave a name Ned That
was supposed to have taken over her husband Charles the first time they were able to they thought they were able to
cast out this first spirit that took over Charles's body whose name was Ned when that Spirit laughed so they weren't
sure how it worked and so after they believed Ned left then they would they would see that
Charles was still alive and then they would come up with another idea that maybe another spirit and they
come up with another name that that oh that Spirit was the one that took over his body here we are having discussions
about spirits a rating system zombies which we'll get to more in a second because I want to just remind listeners
at this point Charles Bellow was killed July 2019 by Lori's brother Alex Cox who
claimed self-defense prosecutors say Chad's Wife Tammy dabell died of asphyxiation in October 2019 and Richie
this is where we come back to zombies Chad and Lori married after both spouses had died we heard a lot of testimony
that Chad and Lori believe certain people were zombies prosecutors questioned Melanie about it didn't they
as a part of Melanie's testimony she described how Lori and Chad would use the term zombie for people that
ultimately they would want gone did Lori Dean Charles a zombie yes did Lori refer
to Tammy dabel as a zombie I believe so I probably use that word but I'm not 100 I
think so did she refer to Tammy as being possessed yeah did she refer to Kylie as a zombie yes
did she refer to JJ as a zombie yes Melanie also testified that months before police found the children buried
on Chad's property when they were still searching for them that Lori and Chad tried to get her to tell police that JJ
was with her all along Melanie describes getting a phone call from Chad informing
her that the police were looking for JJ and that if the police called her to not
answer and then later Melanie gets a phone call from Lori and Laurie informs Melanie that she told the police that
Melanie had JJ with her in Arizona Melanie does lie to police but she clearly over time felt very guilty about
it so she decides to call Lori and Chad recording the conversation she secretly records it and she confronts Chad and
Lori about where JJ is I asked Chad the other day I was like hey um you know where where is JJ and he
said for my security didn't know so is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is
nobody it's his danger it's the danger that there's people after me okay yeah that puts you in a danger well just in a
bad position everybody if they don't know anything then they don't have to say they know
right so you're just worried okay um so at this point Lori reiterates that JJ is safe but she won't say where he is
and this really starts to raise suspicion I I think on both ends here it seems like no one is believing each
other and and I think the next clip really highlights this let's take a listen this is of Lori valo now speaking
to Melanie you know if you're recording this conversation for the police or whatever I don't know what your
intention is all my heart and I have forever I appreciate those words but if you
really love me you wouldn't have told the police that I had JJ with me that's not that's not what a friend does
and if that just makes me look weird and it just it's not safe for me that doesn't look good I mean you had to
think of my welfare if you love me thing that I felt the Lord was instructing me to do
and I appreciate you and I love you better do anything to harm you and you can have all of this confirmed to you by
the Lord so Melanie eventually told police she actually hadn't seen JJ in months and
gave authorities the recording she made of this conversation Richie before we get on to Friday April 14th of testimony
what stands out to me there is this is a phone call among friends and Lori very quickly
believes that this is being recorded which just seems strange yeah it's very interesting when you
listen to the phone call in its entirety because it starts off friendly and then
the tone of the call as Melanie continues to question them about where JJ is shifts pretty quickly
yeah this group who had allegedly been planning for the end of times very intimately Suddenly at least as I kind
of take away from this call turns on each other let's move on now to Friday April 14th another big day for
the prosecution yes there is an introduction of a lot of texts and emails between many of the key
players in this case Chad dabell Laurie Alex Cox and then also Laurie's previous
husband Charles valo who you'll remember was shot by Alex the summer before the children disappeared it's important to
note that after this case concludes Lori will be facing conspiracy to commit murder charges in that case in Arizona
for Charles's death so prosecutors introduced these texts which reveal that her husband Charles believed he had
caught Chad and Laurie in an affair and he even you could see in the text messages contacts Chad dabell's Wife
Tammy day Bell a couple times via email and it's it's not clear if she got them it doesn't seem that she responded but
shortly after Charles's death there are texts between Chad and Lori where it appears she's learning or or has just
learned that she will not be receiving a one million dollar life insurance policy
for Charles it appears actually went to his sister Kay Woodcock so here is uh Detective Nathan Duncan and he's
actually reading these text exchange between Chad and Lori Lori responded to Chad nope he can change it anytime he
wants he's the agent and anyone can change the benefit beneficiary anytime with their
own signature I'm thinking it must be k ad sent Laurie a message it will be interesting if he got it changed after
he had two bullets in his chest was there an additional message located yes on 7 18 2019 at 12 19 hours
Lori sent Chad a message so I talked to the insurance company he changed it in March so it was
probably Ned before we got rid of him they can't tell me to who of course but it's done I'll still get the four
thousand dollars a month from SS it's interesting because in those texts Lori seems to be referring to Ned that evil
spirit that supposedly took over Charles and this is also kind of where we're getting a better sense of a possible
motive it sounds like that life insurance policy may have played a big role in Charles balor's death yes so
that seems to be what prosecutors might be implying in including this and it fits pretty well into their arguments
that money was a big motive and Lori fallow's alleged crimes what other testimony did we hear Last
Friday so a big person that testified was uh zulema pastenis who is Alex Cox's wife
she'd actually married him just a couple weeks before he died and she testified largely as an Insider to Chad and
Laurie's alleged extremist religious beliefs she seems to corroborate as Melody Gibb has the belief that people
could be taken over by dark spirits and one particular part of her testimony that gives an Insight is that she
describes that Laurie believed a way to prevent someone's body from being re-entered by a spirit would be to
either bind them or burn them which is really chilling considering that JJ was bound with all that duct tape and that
tylie's remains were so severely burned very haunting so is dilemma helping possibly connect some Dots here for the
prosecution did zulema have any other insight into her husband Alex Cox so yes zulema testified that Lori and Chad seem
to have convinced Alex that he had a Divine mission to protect Laurie and remember Alex told police that he had
shot and killed Charles valo earlier that summer in self-defense and largely to protect her dilemma goes on to talk
about a conversation she had with Alex five months after that where he makes this alarming statement indicating that
he felt that Lori and Chad might be making him their quote unquote Fall Guy ultimately what did he say he was very
quiet and unresponsive and then he said um I think I'm being their Fall Guy meaning
and what did you say I said a Fall Guy for what what is it that that you have done what what have
you done that you would be the Fall Guy for um it's like it was like I kept pressuring him and I was so frustrated
because he wasn't answering me so I would walk away and he would say something and then I would come back and
and he was and then I would pressure him again and then he said um one of the times when I was walking
away from him he said um so Emma he there I am a man of God or I am not and then Alex passed away the next day
she passed away the next day Richie it seems like Alex Cox will Loom large over this trial and I wonder what could this
mean for the prosecution's case since he has passed away so that's a big Point Alex is
appears to be according to the prosecution at the center of this murder case and
you know part of their challenge the defense in their opening was very clear that they want the jury to focus on what
Lori did and not what Alex or anyone else did what can we expect in the next week of this trial it would be
interesting to see who else testifies what we do know is uh zulemma will continue her testimony and then after
that since the witness list has been sealed by the judge we'll just have to see [Music]
[Applause] our team at 48 hours will be reporting on the Lori valade ball trial we plan to
bring you the latest coverage and Analysis throughout the trial exclusively on the 48 Hours podcast in
the meantime be sure to follow and listen to 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts you can also listen ad free on
the Amazon music or wundery app Richie thanks so much for debriefing us we're gonna check back in with you soon yes
thank thank you so much for having me Jonathan it'll be interesting to see what else happens in this trial
foreign [Music]

In our second special episode covering the Lori Vallow Daybell trial, Lori’s close friend, Melanie Gibb, takes the stand and speaks to Chad and Lori Daybell’s alleged religious beliefs. CBS News national correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti and "48 Hours" producer Richie Fetzer bring you back inside the courtroom and share insight into shocking phone calls and texts, as well as details from the detective who was present when JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan were discovered. Both Lori Vallow Daybell and Chad Daybell have pleaded not guilty to the charges brought against them.

Listen to "48 Hours" and Inside the Lori Vallow Trial on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/48Hours-Lori-Vallow-Daybell-E2?sid=YT

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

Brief Summary

Lori Vallow Daybell's murder trial reveals disturbing evidence about her children's deaths and her extremist beliefs.

Key points

The Murder Trial of Lori Vallow. Lori Vallow is accused of murdering her children and her husband's former wife, with shocking details emerging during the trial.
Detective's Testimony on Missing Children. Detective Hermosillo reveals alarming details about the investigation into the missing children, raising red flags about Lori and Chad's behavior.
Graphic Discovery of Children's Remains. The courtroom hears disturbing details as the remains of JJ and Tylee are uncovered, shocking all present.
Lori's Disturbing Beliefs. Testimony reveals Lori's belief in evil spirits and her connection to extreme religious ideologies.
Confrontation Over JJ's Whereabouts. Melanie records a tense conversation with Lori about the whereabouts of JJ, raising suspicions.
Alex's Alarming Statement. Zulema reveals Alex felt he was being set up as a 'Fall Guy'.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It makes you wonder what Chad thought the police actually knew.

Reflecting on Chad's suspicious behavior during police questioning.

4:35WatchApr 18, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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