Inside the Lori Vallow Daybell Trial: Both Sides Rest | "48 Hours" Podcast | Forensic Files

thank you for listening a quick word since recording this episode both the prosecution and defense rested their
cases in fact the defense opted not to call any Witnesses closing arguments are scheduled for Thursday May 11th
[Music] that she would cut me up something about she wasn't in the mental place to do
that whether she would get herself in that place to be able to do it [Music] that she didn't want to have to because
it'd be so messy so much blood I think that the bleach and something about trash bags
and then she would bury me worse shoot granola would ever find me [Music] [Applause]
I'm Jonathan Vigliotti you just heard the voice of Audrey barretaro a former friend of Lori Bello day Bells who
claims Laurie threatened to kill her we'll hear more from her during this week's special 48 Hours update along
with other people who were close to Lori and Chad this is the fifth week of testimony in Laurie dabel's trial for
the murders of her two youngest children Joshua J.J valo and Tyler Ryan She's accused along with her husband Chad
dabell of JJ and Tyler's murders as well as the murder of Chad's late Wife Tammy
dabell they both pleaded not guilty and chandibell's trial will occur at a later
date the 48 Hours team has been reviewing hours of Court audio to bring you the key moments from the trial and
this week 48 Hours producer Liza Finley is joining us Liza LED production on all
three of our prior television episodes on this case she was the first 48 producer I worked with welcome Liza glad
to have you here thank you thank you Jonathan it's great to be here it's been a long road it has
and and this has been a difficult Road and a difficult case from the start and I wonder how it Compares with other ones
you've covered well you know I've been reporting on True Crime for so many years and but some get lodged in your
memory and this is one of them we have been on this story since it broke over three years ago watching it unfold as it
did you know ending with a gruesome deaths of the two children and that was heartbreaking I thought everyone you and
I and everybody who'd been covering this was rooting for a happy ending and uh there have been so many unanswered
questions along the way and I finally feel listening to this riveting testimony that we were finally getting a
clearer picture of what investigators say happened and why one thought I've wrestled with throughout this journey
goes back to a Time Magazine cover I remember seeing in 1991 it's a totally black page with the title the nature of
evil and the subtitle reads on this black page does it exist or do bad things just happen wow if bad things
just happen a lot of bad things happened in this case yeah I mean sadly after listening to the prosecution this case
makes me think that maybe evil does exist and we are hearing how it presented itself in the testimony of
witness after witness and let's get right into it we heard a pretty shocking claim from Lori's friend Audrey
barrotero earlier what do we know about her well according to her testimony Audrey baratero met Chad at a religious
conference around 2018 and developed a friendship rooted in their shared religious beliefs she said she read some
of Chad's books and heard about his visions and past lives which he says Chad claimed he'd lived over a million
years he said that he had been Methuselah and he said that he had been an apostle
at the time of Jesus Christ James okay so just to clarify because I feel like we need some clarification here
baratero says Chad claimed he was James the brother of Jesus Christ and that's not all baratero says he told
her that she had been someone special in her past life too Jesus Christ's wife Joanna
Okay so where to begin that's a major claim to make uh and then it's a major claim to
believe barotero believed him she says she did here's Laura's defense attorney Jim Archibald questioning her
about that at the time I thought it could be true because I trusted him you thought it could be true uh because
it sounded cool huh is that a yes yes sounded amazing right [Music] yes I wonder what that little chuckle Audrey
barotero gives at the end of that really means maybe it's suddenly coming into clear focus when she hears how
um unsettling all of this is dare I say crazy I mean I guess if I were Jesus's wife or brother in a past life if I
really believe that I think it was pretty cool too I I think we all would but it is a
little out there so that's what Lori's defense attorney Jim Archibald points out in all these past lives verotero
says Chad told her about Chad is always someone important she says Chad does eventually ask her to befriend Lori
right well baratero says she did befriend Laurie they met at a religious conference and developed a friendship
over the phone baratero says she was invited to participate in something called a casting ceremony in which an
evil spirit is cast out Laura told her that Chad's Wife Tammy day Bell had essentially an evil spirit
living inside her though baratero was uncomfortable and she told Lori she did not want to participate according to
baratero that didn't go too well he pressured me saying you're supposed to be my friend you're supposed to help
me but try to ask you to be my friend [Music] and I reiterated that I didn't want to
she kept on so it sounds from barataro's testimony that Lori was convinced there was an
evil spirit that had taken over Tammy and needed to be removed Eliza where did Laurie say Tammy's
Spirit was and what would happen if it was X pelled prosecutor Tanya Rawlings asked barrotero those very questions but
as you'll hear at the end of this clip baratero seems to be saying she thinks Chad and Lori had more in their minds
than just removing an evil spirit she was saying that she was in a cage or a jail or something like this and it was
the idea like she needs to be freed and helped because some persons overtaken her body okay
and so she wasn't in her body anymore according to them and do you know what would happen if
this dark Spirit was pushed out at the end of the friendship when I heard Chad Dave I'll say
something to the effect of why is the body still alive or something like that okay bye
I realized that they must have a different idea okay even further even further and what
did that mean that they didn't want that they didn't intend for the person to be helped I
would think um that they didn't want the person to live I mean to hear someone say Chad was
talking about whether people were still alive or not prosecutors must find that pretty damning yes but I don't think
that's the most damning thing to come out of bear tarot's testimony right that sound that we played earlier were
baritaro alleges Lori threatened to kill her when did that happen Liza so barataro said she went to visit Laurie
and her niece in Hawaii in October 2019 and on that trip she learned Tammy day Bell had passed away
the trip was unpleasant she says Lori was agitated she was snippy and baratero returned to Idaho with Lori's knee she
says they were staying at Lori's house when she decided to end the friendship with Lori once and for all
I told her that I was going to go upstairs and pack my bag and just go to bed early because I didn't want to
spend more time with her and as I went to go and do that I asked her the question
is there anything weird going on I don't know about and she said no what are you eating
I just I don't know anything and she said no so I took her to work a trusting person
and she's as soon as I turned to start to go up the stairs she started laughing the kind of life as
if you're laughing at someone or think something's hilarious and she said to me you're so naive
I do trust you it's like a little child you'll believe anything anyone would tell you
and she said you think the world is all unicorns and rainbows unicorns and rainbows this allegedly
from a woman who weeks after her children were missing was seen in photos on a beach in Hawaii getting married I
could just listening to that hear how tense that interaction was and we know the conversation got worse barotaro says
Lori then threatened to kill her and cut her body up but Lori's attorney went after baritos credibility here he points
out that she had previously tested by before the grand jury and failed to mention this incident we want to play
this exchange between baratero and Lori's attorney Jim Archibald do you remember taking an oath to tell
the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth do you remember that yes and do you remember your testimony
that you did not say anything like this I was scared and she had said that if you ever tell
anyone I will come and find you in the dark of night so you now want the jury to believe that
even though you previously testified under oath and nothing of this sort was talked about that you come here today
and say you're so scared that's why you didn't previously testify about it objection you're on our argumentative
problems what was your question you want the jury to believe that you did just didn't make
this last crap up I did not make it up during her testimony baratar was very emotional on the stand and we heard her
mention Lori's niece a couple of times that niece is Melanie polowski there are two Melodies In this case right Eliza it
can get a little confusing right it really can Lori had two women named Melanie she was very very close to
one was her niece Melanie polowski formerly known as Melanie Boudreau and then there is Lori's friend Melanie Gibb
now you remember that Gibb is the friend who testified that Lori told her to lie
and to tell the police that JJ was staying with her when they were looking for him in November of 2019.
she's also the one who recorded that secret conversation between herself Lori and Chad that she later turned over to
the investigators so sticking with Melanie polowski her husband Ian was also called to the stand
last week what was his role in this case Ian pawlowski married Melanie in late November 2019 and according to his
testimony Melanie quote unquote dumped all of her fears about what was happening with Tyler and JJ
and were some of the things you heard regarding Tyler Ryan and J.J valo yes did you have concerns for their
safety or their well-being after what you learned yes so what she told him scared him so much
that he went to law enforcement with his concerns and they asked him to record conversations that may be relevant to
the investigation which he did those recordings were not played the judge did not allow them admitted into evidence so
we don't really know what was said no no we don't did Rory or Chad ever instruct you regarding
whether or not to cooperate with law enforcement yes and what were you instructed
to cooperate as little as possible to avoid them there was just kind of this arrogant flipping attitude toward law
enforcement you know it was just none of their business and we needed to get out
of town was another thing the instructed us to do and did those instructions come from
both Chad and Lori it was mostly Chad pushing us to get out of town um fourth chatting Chad had a more
serious tone Lori was represented this light-hearted attitude toward cooperating with law enforcement just to
kind of avoid it and was part of that uh telling you that some of the law enforcement officers were dark Spirits
or zombies yes one of those dark Spirits was detective Hermosillo who you might recall from the
first week of trial when he testified that he found Lori's children buried in Chad's backyard polowski says he was
told that Hermosillo was one of the zombie officers and that law enforcement was out to get them Eliza what else did
Ian hear I mean it's just unbelievable but Ian also testified that he heard Lori say that she could cast out Satan
Lori said that she was able to cast Satan out by folding him up into the shape of a taco and locking him in a box
in Antarctica oh I I don't know how to react to that so I think we just leave it right where it is
when we come back testimony from those close to Chad's Wife Tammy Depot [Music] welcome back I'm here with producer Liza
Findlay and I'd like to focus on Tammy dabell whose birthday incidentally passed during the trial she would have
been 53. specifically I'd like to narrow in on her friends Alice and Todd Gilbert
friends of Chad and Tammy knew them well from church they were close Alice testified that she saw Tammy twice a
week while Todd was even a central character in one of Chad's books what else did they have to say Liza
well uh when Tammy died the Gilberts say they were called soon after and Chad you
know made a request that Alice just could not abide she couldn't do it and what did Chad tell you he told me not to
tell anybody and to wait for about an hour and I said well I need to call the Bishop
and he said no no don't call but I still did and also the Gilberts say they learned
Lori had entered the picture shortly thereafter very shortly thereafter about a week after Tammy died
um we asked him how he was doing and he said actually I'm doing really good and that he'd met the woman he was going to
marry and and you recall this being around October 26th and Tammy had just passed away or been
declared dead on the 19th yes did you find did it surprise you that he seemed to be doing so well yes
we were shocked well you can hear the emotion in Alice's voice it was obviously very shocking and
the Gilberts say that they met Laurie at church and then they had the new couple over at their
home and they both said that Chad and Lori appeared incredibly affectionate giggling touching like they were
teenagers in a way that they'd never seen Chad behave with Tammy it was during that visit that Gilbert said Chad
told them something really big yes we asked her if she had had any children and she
she said that she'd had many and that Chad spoke up and says that she had a daughter it just passed on
and so we didn't really ever get a straight answer of how many children she did have
wow so just to punctuate this moment because I think it's so critical Chad allegedly told her Laurie's daughter
died and now this is before Tyler had been found Alice also testified Chad after Lori's arrest tried to backtrack
that he ever said Lori had a daughter who died here's Alice recounting that conversation she says she had what Chad
you told me when we met that she had just lost a daughter and he said no I didn't I said yes you did
and um so I knew that it was tiley that he was talking to me about I asked him also
um where are they I asked them where are the kids Chad and doesn't Tyler want a life a job a car a boyfriend
and he said she didn't like people and she didn't like me and what struck you about those
statements because he said didn't he is the past tense he's the past tense um very chilling testimony
we also heard about Tammy's life insurance policies she had two one for three hundred thousand dollars that she
and Chad had purchased and another offered by the school district Tammy worked for those life insurance policies
were both paid out according to detective Mattingly how much did Chad get in total Liza he was paid out a
total of four hundred and thirty thousand dollars you know if Tammy had died just two months this is so
interesting if Tammy had died just two months earlier or any date before September 1st it would have been a lot
less and why is that well Angela Yancey the school district's payroll and benefits administrator testified that on
September 8th Tammy changed her coverage in fact she maxed out her coverage at five times her salary and even added an
additional option which increased the policy benefit to a hundred and thirty thousand dollars okay so maxing out a
life insurance policy less than two months before you die is definitely suspicious do we know why she did that
no we don't but we do know two days after Tammy died Chad daybell reached out to Yancey to claim the life
insurance here she has testified that that was unusually soon I explained to him that we could not
submit a life claim until we had um the original death certificate to go with it and he said that's okay I've
already ordered eight of them and in your experience how many death certificates do most people order when
they share that information with me the I've heard maybe three at the most three at the most and Chad diebell
ordered eight death certificates a life insurance policy that Chad wanted to claim less than 72 hours after his wife
died as well to a jury this could all be I would think suspicious especially when
we heard detective Mattingly testify that he believed Chad was living off the proceeds of those policies while he and
Lori were in Hawaii Liza I know there's one more witness who we have to talk about he testified to what could be some
of the most damning evidence we've heard thus far yes there was compelling testimony from an FBI agent named Doug
Hart amongst other investigative work on the case Hart spent more than 200 hours
combing through Laurie's iCloud and found texts voicemails and photos that helped them piece together the
relationship between Chad and Lori well from the beginning it was clear that the
relationship between the Romantic relationship between Chad Dayville and Lori valo was the driving force
behind the crimes that are alleged to have taken place so the text messages revealed that Chad
and Lori were romantically involved before either of their spouses died after the affair began there then began
to be Communications regarding the deaths of Charles fallow Tammy dabel J.J valo and Tyler Ryan
some of the most shocking texts revealing this relationship were sent months before Tammy died or just days
after Lori's previous husband Charles was shot by her brother Alex Cox in what he described as self-defense the these
texts were often romantic sometimes sexual punctuated with heart and kiss emojis yes and uh what really stood out
to me in Hart's testimony was his reference to the term obstacles used by Chad daybell in regard to the couple's
former spouses Charles Bellow and Tammy day Bell and Lori's kids and what's really interesting the texts also
demonstrate Chad's feelings of being trapped listen to this text from July 26th just two and a half weeks after
Charles died from Chad day Bell to Lori valo tonight I figured out who I feel like
I'm a grown-up version of Harry Potter who has to live with the dudleys in his little space under the stairs
every few weeks I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my goddess lover
but then I have to return to my place under the stairs feeling trapped but I sense permanent freedom is coming
then there's this text exchange before Tammy died from Lori vallo to Chad dabel I'm so
alone without you it is devastating line 824 from Chad day Bell to Lori vallo I feel so alone too we are
surrounded by terrestrial relatives that are simply obstacles I'm so sick of it line 823 from Lori valo to Chad dabel me
too what is it that you really want line 824 from Chad davil to Lori valo I want to be with you that is my greatest
hope and dream I would happily join you tomorrow if it felt like heaven would not strike us down
and the way they talked about physical bodies spirits zombies in these texts is interesting here's an exchange between
Lori and her brother Alex Cox referencing Charles on March 26th of 2019 this is four months before Alex
would shoot Charles and a reminder to our listeners Alex died of what authorities say were natural causes on
December 12 2019. text from Alex Cox to Lori valo correct Charles's body is alive
1762 from Alex Cox to Lori valo what did you learn line 1761 from Lori vallo to Alex Cox a
lot still working on it we'll call you later these short texts actually contain a lot
of information regarding what was taking place in the investigation myself Chad dabell had identified Charles valo
as somebody who was a dark entity whose body had been possessed by any number of
Spirits which were named with various names and so this first text when Alex Cox is
reaching out to Lori valo he's he's affirming that Charles valo's body his physical body is still alive and
inquiring what Lori valo had learned about that which she replied she had learned a lot and would contact him
later here's another text this is on July the 30th 2019. text from Chad Dayville to Lori Velo yes we might
need to release a little steam when we talk anyway this is the chart that checks what percentage Mortals are stay
in their body this number system is a it's a little hard to follow but Hart testified that
the numbers Chad refers to is a quote death percentage sounds like the closer a death
percentage was to a hundred or to a zero the closer that person was to death Lori's defense attorney John Thomas asks
her this in cross-examination all right any testified today that either being low percentage or a high
percentage could mean death is that correct that's my understanding all right so basically
[Music] isn't your understanding but you really don't have an understanding about what's
going on here as far as these percentages go I disagree I think that Chad dabel's
writings were inconsistent but it's clear that he designated uh JJ and Tyler and Tammy dabell as as he had them in
his death percentages and all three of those individuals ended up dead okay first of all that this was all about
fantasy that it's more of a Dungeons and Dragons pull out your 64-sided dice type
of thing is that is that possible absent the three people being killed perhaps here's more from agent heart
um and so my question is what happens when a person reaches a zero percentage according to the case that means that
they're ready for death they're ready for that throw their dead or they're what well clearly at that particular point in
time JJ wasn't dead but within six weeks he was a person's number reaches zero they are
ready to die there are three total conversations or sets of text strings regarding the death
percentage for JJ tiley and Tammy daybell uh there's this one there's another that
occurs on July 30th and then the third one occurs on August 10th listen to this and um what information and did Chad
dabell provide to Lori valo um about a number associated with Tyler he indicates that she is at 0.13
and what number did Chad day Bell provide about JJ's death percentage 99.99 He also mentioned a number system
alluding to turn up the physical pain inflicted on Tyler she is at 0.13 I turned up the pain to
10 and placed a spiritual virus in her here's more from those texts now turning to a text communication on
July 29 2019 um do you see that on slide 37 I do okay why did you include this text
Communication in your summary I included it because of its references to causing pain to Children okay can you
please read those uh the text Communications into the records line 1877 from Chad Dayville to Lori
valo one question do you want me to cause pain yet to those two threes you're riding with
line 1876 from Lori valo to Chad dabel probably hold off on then till we arrive they will be
mistake to deal with but I'll text you if they start acting up and we can zap them
line 1875 from Lori valo to Chad dabel miserable not mistake why in 1872 from Chad dabell to Lori
valo sounds great yes if they are going to act up we'll at least give them a reason
to scream I love cherish treasure and adore you the wonderful memories just keep coming back
the prosecuting attorney asked heart why these texts were included in the presentation he prepared to accompany
his testimony the references to hurting children and giving them a reason to scream
are relevant in any of these references and I think you've mentioned a couple of times that
concept did you ever see Lori valo protest like don't do that no listen to this okay
and in this situation looking at all of the messaging and communication that Lori valo had did you
ever see any evidence that J.J valo was alive after September of 2019. no did you ever see any evidence that
Lori was looking for him or trying to support him or help him after September 22nd 2019.
no as for Tyler did you ever see after September 8th of 2019 in any of her email accounts any of the information or
text message that Lori vallo was looking for her no did you ever find any evidence that Lori valo had that tally
was alive after September 8th of 2019. no and what's really interesting based on
these texts Lori doesn't show much sympathy for those affected by the deaths around her either Hart says she
ignores JJ's grandmother K woodcock's pleas for Lori to let JJ attend Charles memorial service and then in another
instance from the day after Alex shoots Charles there were texts from Lori to Charles's Sons Zack and Cole informing
them of their father's death by not telling them how he died the son's text asking for answers isn't that correct
right and Lori was not responding to them but according to heart she was still texting Chad here's an exchange
from just three days after Charles cevallo died from Chad Babel to Lori valo I need so badly to just gently kiss
you for hours line 28 88 from Chad Davis to Lori valo it would likely lead to other activities
line 2887 from Lori valo to Chad dabel likely or luckily line 2886 from Chad day Bell to Lori
valo it would luckily lead to nakedness it's quite a text and uh and it's clear that Charles's sons are incredibly
frustrated by the radio silence based on this text from the next day they also Express concern that they haven't heard
from the children Laurie's oldest son Colby and Tyler and JJ Okay Lori it's been three days you let
us know our father passed away over a text message three days and we haven't heard from anyone
the only information we have is that one text from you saying he passed away you
disappeared after that we need any information you have what happened when did it happen how did it
happen where is he now are there any funeral plans and can Zach and I be part of it we talked to him all the time and
now he's gone he was our dad and we loved him very much we deserve answers also why have you been the only one to
contact us we haven't heard from Colby or Tyler I know they are affected too I called Colby recently too but he didn't
answer is JJ safe and what does he know I need to be kept in the loop about this
all this isn't a nonchalant topic you can just throw a text at and be done with it
this really is heartbreaking you know those two sons lost their father and you know there's such a lack of empathy and
caring about him and Chad shows a similar lack of empathy regarding the death of his wife Tammy I mean on the
night she died he wrote to Lori saying not fun without you and the next morning the two talk how much they miss each
other line 515 from Lori valo to Chad Dayville that's true I do feel you I feel love sick I can't
sleep I don't want to eat I just want you it's so consuming line 514 from Chad dabell to Lori valo I
know exactly how you feel I'm feeling sad but it isn't for the reason everyone thinks
I mean what's what's clear here at least from the perspective of these children they were ghosted as they were trying to
find answers about what happened to their father Lori and Chad having these at times what seem like romantic
conversations very much active as Lori is being very quiet with whatever did unfold with Charles Balo to Charles's
Sons the web of people impacted by this case only continues to grow we're going to end with this clip from heart in his
cross-examination with Lori's defense attorney John Thomas he asks heart this as a whole as I said is indicated you
reviewed all these texts or very a large number of these texts um isn't it sure that Maureen was for
all intents and purposes a pretty good mother with the exception of what happened to
her children yes [Music] our team at 48 hours will continue our reporting on the Lori Bello Diva trial
we'll be back next week with the latest coverage and Analysis throughout the trial exclusively on the 48 Hours
podcast in the meantime be sure to follow and listen to 48 Hours wherever you get your
podcasts you can also listen ad free on the Amazon music or wondering app Liza thanks so much for being with us today
we'll check back with you soon thanks so much Jonathan it's great talking to you
foreign [Music]

Both the prosecution and the defense have rested their cases. Hear the disturbing texts between Lori and Chad that prosecutors say allude to inflicting pain and their beliefs in a death percentage system which indicated whether someone was close to death. That dramatic testimony and more from Lori, Chad, and Tammy Daybell’s close friends. CBS News national correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti and "48 Hours" producer Liza Finley bring you back inside the courtroom and share insights into the shocking witness testimonies and the new evidence brought in front of the jurors.

Listen to "48 Hours" and "Inside the Lori Vallow Daybell Trial" on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/48Hours-Lori-Vallow-Daybell-E5

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

Brief Summary

Lori Vallow Daybell's trial reveals shocking testimonies about threats, relationships, and evidence surrounding the murders of her children and Chad's wife.

Key points

Lori's Trial Update. Both prosecution and defense have rested their cases, with closing arguments scheduled soon.
Shocking Claims from Audrey. Audrey Baratero claims Lori threatened to kill her, raising serious concerns about Lori's mental state.
Chad's Life Insurance Claims. Chad claimed life insurance just days after Tammy's death, raising suspicions.
Chad and Lori's Relationship. Text messages reveal a romantic relationship before their spouses died, suggesting motive.
Lori's Devastation. Lori expresses her deep loneliness after Tammy's death, saying it's devastating.
Chad's Greatest Hope. Chad shares his desire to be with Lori, expressing a longing for connection.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Wow, if bad things just happen, a lot of bad things happened in this case.

3:08WatchMay 10, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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