Hostage | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

When was the first time that you heard the term Stockholm syndrome? It was this psychiatrist
who is dead now, but he was a >> [laughter] >> strange guy. The term Stockholm syndrome
was coined by psychiatrist Nils Bejerot. It became well known in 1974 when newspaper heiress Patty Hearst was
kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army. And instead of wanting to be rescued, she teamed up with the people
who kidnapped her and began to help them rob banks. But that's not where we get the term
Stockholm syndrome. One summer in 1973 two men robbed a bank in Stockholm. They held four people hostage for 6
days. The bank robbers had met one another in prison. Their names were Jan-Erik Olsson and
Clark Olofsson. Here's Clark. The main thing was take it easy. We're going to nobody going to get killed.
Because I was a good guy. >> [music] >> And the police was a bad guy. >> [laughter]
>> This is the beginning of the Stockholm syndrome. By the time the two men met in prison,
Clark had robbed a lot of banks. He'd been to prison many times. Clark became known all over Sweden when
a robbery went wrong and his friend shot and killed a policeman. He'd become [music] a kind of celebrity bank robber.
Clark was 26 and Jan was 32. So you met him in prison, what did you think of him when you met him? I thought
he was an idiot. He was a useful idiot. And he was a chicken thief, they call him.
Small guy. Clark remembers that Jan wanted to hear all about how to rob a bank step by
step. [music] He was so interested in how to make it, how to make bank robberies, how to do this and that. So
I'm tended to have it like a fairy tale every evening before he he went to sleep.
He wanted to hear over and over again. It was taking hostages in the bank and blah
blah blah blah. I had never thought that it should happen. But when it happened, I knew immediately
it was him. On August [music] 23rd, 1973 Clark was still in prison. He'd been moved to solitary confinement.
Jan had escaped. Jan put on a wig and fake glasses, walked into a bank in Stockholm by
himself, and pulled out a machine gun, and shot at the ceiling. In a fake American accent, he said, "The
party has just begun." and proceeded to take three bank employees, all women, hostage. This is the bank in Stockholm
where the robber has barricaded himself. He is equipped with a machine gun and he has
several people as ransom in there. He has already shooting one policeman in the hand while the policeman try to
overtake him and the other ones had to escape and run for cover. And since then, nobody
has really been able to see him. They have policemen in the localities and they are trying to get hold to shoot
at him. A bank employee later said, "I believed I was seeing something that could only happen in America."
Jan made three demands. He wanted $700,000 and a quote fast car. He also wanted Clark Olofsson to be
released from prison and driven to the bank where Jan was holding the hostages. So when did you hear about it? When the
the Minister of Justice called me in the prison. >> [laughter] >> What did he say?
>> He said, "There is a one man in Stockholm in a bank in Stockholm who demands you to be
transported to him. What do you say?" I said, "Yes, of course. I come immediately."
You knew exactly who was in that bank calling for you. >> Yeah, yeah. Did you want to go? Yeah, of course.
I was in isolation. I was in deep [ __ ] So everything anything else was paradiso.
So he he his plan was get me to the bank. Then he can relax. I will fix it. Of all the people we've talked to on
this show I think Clark Olofsson might have surprised us the most. We were surprised he agreed to the
interview. We were surprised by the things he said. He's confident in a way that's hard to
make sense of. But given what he did maybe we shouldn't have been surprised. [music]
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. >> [music] >> How did you get from the prison to the
bank? Well, police escort all the way. But the police were instructed not to take Clark inside the bank, just [music]
to bring him so that Jan could see he was there. The you know, the Minister of Justice absolutely forbid them to to
bring me inside the bank. Only to the bank. And use me as a bargaining chip. But you know,
the communication among the policemen inside the bank was so bad. So when I came down the stairs
one policeman thought I should never be able to go in. The other one, he was sure I
should go in. So I jumped. So I jumped over them. Why did you want to get in that bank?
You know, I know the Swedish system. I know the Swedish mentality. And 1973, it was a very soft, nice,
human country. They should never shoot any sausage. They should never shoot even a bank robber.
1973, it was that situation and that I was playing along with. So I jumped over them.
When Clark got inside the bank, he saw that Jan had taken three hostages and tied them up. And I calmed the situation
immediately. I was joking with them, untie everybody, make order, kick out all the police in the bank.
And then start to negotiate. Were they terrified? What what did they look like? Yeah, yeah. When I came, they
were terrified. After 5 minutes, they were cool. I said, "Hey, take it just easy. We're
going to fix this." >> [music] >> He was calming everything down. He said, "You can't have the girls tied up like
this. Tie them loose." Kristin Enmark was one of the hostages. She was 23 years old at the time. Here's
what she told the podcast Memory Motel in 2016. I think me and and all the others were
very I was very glad that he came because the situation >> [music] >> became totally different.
In her memoir, which isn't [music] translated into English Kristin Enmark describes seeing Clark for the first
time. She says he was quote a mix between Che Guevara and Jesus. She was very sweet. She was looking
anxiously when I came and she looks very grateful when I cut [music] her ropes and everything.
And then we became very very near. She she was very she was very very sweet girl. She was 23 years old.
And I and I like girls. Was she scared of you at first? Yes, she was scared from everything. But the
after 1 minute, she felt better and she still thinks that I saved her life. Kristin writes in her book,
>> [music] >> "He talked to us. Fixed things." After untying the hostages, one of the
first things Clark says he did was walk around the main banking floor to make sure that no police [music]
had gotten inside. He didn't find any police but he did find a bank employee hiding in a closet.
His name was Sven Säfström and he became their fourth hostage. Meanwhile the entire country was watching.
It was Sweden's first televised crime and was being broadcast all over the country. They called it the bank drama.
Swedish citizens called the police to offer suggestions, especially elderly women who suggested things like a
concert of religious songs to soften the bank robbers' resolve. Someone suggested putting bees inside
the bank, sending them in through the air vents, so that everyone would have to come running outside.
A third caller proposed putting soap all over the bank floor so the robbers would
slip, fall, and be easily arrested. The hostages had asked to make phone calls to their families. They asked for
tampons. Clark made these things part of the negotiation. So I every time police
did something, I said, "Look the bastards, what they do against you. I going to take care of it."
So you know, the sympathy came slowly over to my side. So you were able to take these small
little things that the police weren't doing and say, "Hey, I'm going to get this for you." Yeah, yeah, sure. This
was the plan. And they had no interest to talk to the the hostage and to be nice to them or to
comfort them. We did. I did. Clark and Jan took the hostages into the bank's small, windowless vault.
The vault ceilings were low. One of the hostages, Elisabeth Oden was feeling claustrophobic.
Jan tied a rope around her neck and let her step outside of the vault to get some air.
They divided up food equally, slicing pears to make sure there was enough for everyone.
Kristin says she set up her bed next to the door to be near Clark. You are in this situation
and there comes a man who says, "You can sit here beside me. I'm going to protect
you." And and well, there's nothing to lose. I can't say that I felt safe because
that's not the word, but uh he meant very much to me. And I explained to her this system, the the
mentality in Sweden, how the police are thinking, how the politicians absolutely
them, how they were thinking. These conversations meant a lot to Kristin. She felt like Clark cared about her and
that the police and the Swedish politicians were only focused on arresting Clark and Jan
and weren't worried about the safety of the hostages. I was the one who was the the victim and
I think they maybe they could listen to what I wanted. The hostages were giving phone
interviews to reporters all over the world, not only saying that they were okay, but that they wanted the police to
back off. Kristin told the New York Times, "Why can't they let the boys drive off
with us in the car?" And I called all newspapers, all television stations just to be sure that nobody could say, "We
had to because they are dangerous and they are so and so." So, the hostages were being quoted in in newspapers. You
They were They were calling They were letting the public know that they were okay. Yeah, and not even not only that,
they said, "We are not at all at all afraid of the robbers. We are afraid of the police."
>> [laughter] >> And they believed it. Were you manipulating them or did you care about them?
I cared about them and I was manipulating them very much because for the sake, not for the just for fun,
for the sake. And it should be much more safe if we were if we are playing for the same team.
Because then we don't need to to to watch out something. They were watching out for themselves. So, they were their
own own guards. >> [music] >> Kristin and Mark spoke to the Swedish Prime Minister on the telephone.
They talked for nearly an [music] hour. It was recorded. She said, "I think you're sitting there playing
checkers with our lives. I fully trust [music] Clark and the robber. They haven't done a thing to us.
What I'm scared of is that the police will attack and cause us to die." >> [music]
>> On the morning of the third day, a police officer snuck into the bank and shut the vault door, locking Jan, Clark,
and all of the hostages inside. Well, I remember hearing the you know, when the door was shut and
then I said, "Okay, now we're closed in. We can't get out um if the police doesn't open the door.
But that's if you excuse me, [music] that's when the [ __ ] really hit the fan. The police were done negotiating.
No more food or water. They began to drill holes into the walls of the vault. Police started drilling
uh and uh Jan says [music] and Clark too, they they're drilling because they want to
put in gas. The drilling was day and night for I don't know how many hours, how many days.
And the the the light went out, so it was dark about I said about 12 13 hours and then I mean
dark. [music] You know, it was dark dark. Water used to cool the drills began to
flood the vault. >> [music] >> They tried to drink the water off the floor. Looking back, Kristin writes, "We were
tired both mentally and physically. We lived in something you could call the valley of death.
The situation had transformed us entirely." And then, on the sixth day, the police
began to pump tear gas into the holes they drilled. When that happened, Kristin remembers
Jan telling them to get up. He said, "Get up, girls." Then I thought he was going to kill me.
I really did. But he didn't. He said, "I surrender." I remember shouting, "He surrendered. He
surrendered." Because I was so afraid that he would regret that. And then the police opened the door.
And when I look out, I see these two guys looking like Rambo. They want us to come out first, the hostage. Jan said
no. He thought that if the hostages left first, that the police would kill him. He wanted to leave first with Clark. So,
we said, "Let the guys go out first." Jan and Clark were seen hugging and shaking hands with the hostages. The
women kissed them. And then all six people walked out together with Jan and Clark in front.
They were immediately arrested. The hostages were put on stretchers. There's a video of the exit and you can
see Kristin sitting upright on her stretcher looking around for Clark. She yelled, "Clark, I'll see you again."
The hostages spent 10 days in the hospital being evaluated by psychiatrists. Jan was charged with violent robbery,
kidnapping, and attempted murder. Clark was charged with violent robbery. He pleaded his own case and argued that
he was forced into participating in the whole ordeal, first by the police, then by Jan. [clears throat]
Kristin refused to testify against Clark. She lied and said she never seen Clark
hold a gun. It was very clear to her that Clark shouldn't be punished. She wrote, "Had I
been able to decide, I would have given him a medal." But over the years, she's been both
supportive and critical of him. For everything kind she writes about him in her book, she also writes, "His plan
was only his and contained only his needs and wishes. The rest of us were just bricks in his
game." Jan was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Clark didn't go to prison at all.
People have often speculated over the years that the two men had to have planned it together.
Do you feel bad that he went to prison and you didn't? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no.
I never feel bad when I'm not in prison. >> [laughter] >> No, it was not not You know, I don't
feel guilty at all about it. Because he tried to even to use me then. Even then.
He is a really shitty ass. Egoistic, money hungry, betrayer, traitor. [music] >> [laughter]
>> A year after the robbery, Jan told the New Yorker, quote, "I had lives for assets. What could be more valuable?"
After he was released from prison, Jan moved to Thailand >> [music] >> and married a woman with whom he'd
become pen pals while he was in prison. Clark has been back to prison many times
since 1973. He was just released again a few months before we spoke with him for involvement
in drug smuggling. The [music] apparent friendly relationship between Clark and Jan and
the hostages was confusing to psychiatrists. In the days after they were released,
they continued to speak highly of the two men who'd kidnapped them. Nils Bejerot said,
"Their calm facades hide chaos." He came up with the term Stockholm syndrome to describe some kind of
unconscious [music] defense mechanism that bonds hostages to their captors. >> [music]
>> As popular as the term is, there still isn't much academic research on it. Some researchers have called it an urban
myth. When you hear the word Stockholm syndrome, what do you think? No, I'm I laugh every time. But and you hear it so
often. I was in Antigua on my boat and met an American there. We had some drinks.
We were living in in my boat for a week. And it happens that his mother in Texas
was a was a one one of the best experts on Stockholm syndrome. So, when she he called her, she got crazy. She wanted to
come. Then I had to leave. >> [laughter] >> You know, but people psychiatrists and
psychologists, they use that term in so many ways it was not meant and it is not
But it's a it's a you know it's a combination of everything. But but if you say Stockholm Syndrome,
everybody knows what it is about. The the hostages are connected or tied with the with the
rubber. And in this case, Kristin, in particular, did have a connection with Clark.
In her book, she says it's important that people know she didn't fall in love with him in the vault.
In the vault, she says, she liked him. She trusted him. And then later, she writes, something
more did develop between them. You had a relationship with her that was more than friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, much. We had fun like hell. Did you kiss her when you were in the vault? No, no, no, no, absolutely not.
I But I said to her, "Hey, we take all that afterwards." It all happened after. >> [laughter]
>> So, she know what I meant. And that we did. Clark and Kristin are still in touch.
They're just friends now. He calls her Kiki. Over the years, Kristin has been vocal about her
frustration with journalists and psychiatrists who present her as too traumatized to recognize what happened
to her. She's sick of the term Stockholm Syndrome. "Syndrome is a condition of illness,"
she said. "I became stamped as ill and thus not credible." She isn't the only one who felt a
connection with her captors. Elisabeth Oldgren accused the doctors of trying to brainwash away her regard for
Jan and Clark. Sven later said, "When Jan treated us well, we could think of him as an emergency god."
The fourth hostage, Birgitta Lundblad, was the first to visit Clark in prison. What is it about you, do you think, that
makes women and makes people go to your side, not be afraid of you? Yeah, no, I'm a nice guy.
>> [laughter] >> I am. Even even a nice guy even if you're holding a gun. >> [snorts]
>> Even then. Even then. You know, I have robbed banks. Half of the bank personnel don't even know that
something happens. I wonder if anyone ever anyone's ever said, "Hey, hold on. Stop telling
everyone else they're the bad guy. You're the bad guy." No, no. I never heard one I never heard a person say one
bad word in my ears in all my life. >> [snorts] >> Never. What do judges say to you now when you
get in trouble? >> They don't like me. This is the only place one of the few places I should not be in because they
think I'm an arrogant son of a [ __ ] with a bad attitude and he doesn't care. That's what I know they think. And we
will teach him a lesson. And that they do. Are you an arrogant son of a [ __ ] Yeah, yeah.
>> [music] >> Do people recognize you now? Yeah, yeah, and they like me. And it always ends
with the almost kissing. Handshakes and and they start Now they start Oh, my father, he was
>> [music] >> uh uh there and there when you robbed that to that bank and he he tried to take you
and all kinds of stories. Everybody has a story. And you once saw a tourist viewing the old bank, huh?
>> [music] >> What? You once saw a group of tourists viewing >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, [laughter] yeah, I did that. What did you do? I I I heard him. He was telling the
story of what happened inside the bank. And I went into the group. It was about 20 30 Americans.
And I started to say, "Hey, no, no, no, no, no, this is not what happened." He thought I
was an idiot, normal. A guy from >> [laughter] >> But they they group uh the some of the
people in the group, they started to believe understand. So, they Google when they were standing there.
And in the end, you know, he understood it [snorts] was me. And he was he he I I
even let him talk to to Kiki, the hostage, in the telephone. He his day was done, I promise you.
>> [music] >> Looking back on it all now, Clark told us that he was never nervous
in that bank. He says he always knew that it would all work out. He said, "It was a joyful period. I had fun."
>> [music] >> Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me. >> [music] >> Nidia Wilson is our senior producer.
Audio mix by Rob Byers. Special thanks to Terrence Mickey of the Memory Motel podcast for allowing [music] us to air
excerpts of his 2016 conversation with Kristin Enmark. We've a link to their full episode in the show notes. And he's
got a new podcast called Self Help. Check it out. Thanks also to Susanna Robertson,
Mathilde Erflino, and Alba Mogensen. Julian Alexander creates original illustrations for each episode of
Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. We're on Facebook [music] and Twitter
@criminalshow. Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio WUNC.
We're proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collection of the best podcasts around.
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This is Criminal. >> [music] >> Radiotopia >> [music] >> from PRX.

In the summer of 1973, Clark Olofsson and Jan-Erik Olsson robbed the Kreditbanken in Stockholm’s Norrmalmstorg town square. They held four people hostage for six days. Swedish psychiatrist and criminologist Nils Bejerot coined the term “Stockholm Syndrome” to describe the response of the hostages. Bank robber Clark Olofsson told us, “It was fun.”

Special thanks to Terence Mickey, of the podcast Memory Motel, for allowing us to share audio from his interview with Kristin Enmark. Listen to the full Memory Motel episode here (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/memory-motel/id1084076357), and check out his new podcast, Self? Help!

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode 113 originally published April 26, 2019. https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-113-hostage-04-26-2019

Music in this episode: “Grand Caravan” by Blue Dot Sessions “Nesting” by Blue Dot Sessions “Marble Chase” by Blue Dot Sessions “Relay 7” by Blue Dot Sessions “Brachal Crater (Original Music for Criminal)” by Blue Dot Sessions “Bauxite” by Blue Dot Sessions “Waypost” by Blue Dot Sessions

Brief Summary

The episode covers the 1973 Stockholm bank robbery and the resulting Stockholm syndrome, featuring hostages Kristin Enmark and Clark Olofsson's experiences.

Key points

The Birth of Stockholm Syndrome. The term was coined after a bank robbery in Stockholm where hostages bonded with their captors.
Hostages Demand Police to Back Off. During the hostage situation, hostages expressed more fear of the police than their captors.
The Hostages' Unexpected Bond. After their release, hostages continued to speak highly of their captors, raising questions about Stockholm Syndrome.
A Joyful Period. Clark reflects on his experience in the bank, saying he was never nervous.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I believed I was seeing something that could only happen in America.

A bank employee's reaction to the robbery.

3:13WatchApr 28, 2026

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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