Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Post Mortem | Forensic Files

Welcome to Postmortem. I'm [music] your host, Ann Marie Green, and today we're discussing the case of Molly Bish, a
16-year-old lifeguard who disappeared from a local pond in Warren, Massachusetts on June 27th, 2000. Her
remains were found 3 years later, but the big question still lingers today, which is who killed Molly Bish? Her
sister Heather has taken to Tik Tok leading for leads. So joining me now to talk about this case is 48 Hours
correspondent Aaron Morardi. Thanks for joining us again Erin. >> Oh well I love being here but a little
warning. This is a tough story to talk about. An important story but it's tough.
>> It is. And before we get into it, if you have not listened to this episode yet,
head on over to your podcast feed. The full audio version of this episode of 48 Hours is here. It's in your podcast feed
right beneath this one. Go listen and then come on over for this conversation. And yes, Aaron, this is a tough one
because unlike a lot of the cases that we do for 48 hours, you know, there's isn't a resolution yet. We don't know
who's responsible for her murder, 48 hours actually covered this case back in 2003. Why revisit it now? Well, one
thing, 48 hours, we stick with stories for a long time till they are resolved. But most important is there's an
unidentified killer and what happened to Molly, nobody wants to happen to any other child. And so, it is important to
try to get answers in this case. Plus, there have been updates, important updates since we first aired this story.
Um, number one, there's a person of interest. there had never been a person of interest named and there's also a new
detective who was uh assigned the case who is going to give new eyes to the evidence
>> and it's the 25th anniversary and I think most police officers will tell you and investigators will tell you that
when you go back on a story when there's an anniversary there's always a chance that you'll get new tips and this story
is worth pursuing Yeah. And you know, Erin, one of the things that we have noticed with some
cases that have gone unsolved for even decades, you know, things change, people get older, they may decide to come
forward. So, you never know uh who may remember something that they had buried that may help with this case once they
hear about the hour. So, just to remind people, on the morning of June 27th, 2000, Molly's mom, Maggie, dropped her
off at Cumins Pond after 9:50 a.m. where Molly was working as a lifeguard. Shortly after that, beachgoers arrived,
but Molly was not there. Police were eventually called to the scene, but Maggie wasn't notified until Molly had
been missing for 3 hours. First question, why did they wait so long to tell her family that she was
missing? I think they didn't want to overly alarm her family. They thought, hey, maybe she just walked off with
friends and took too long. Think back to 2000. Of course, this was 25 years ago.
Warren is a small town. I think a lot of people kid themselves, but they think these things don't happen in a small
town. Um, I think that sadly they didn't have a plan in place. I don't think it occurred to anyone this would happen. In
fact, with hindsight, you look back, she actually had a police radio that she went to pick up and she's supposed to
call in and check in. And I don't think anybody noticed that she didn't. or it's
possible she never got a chance to because we do know that whatever happened to her happened to her within
minutes, a very short period of time. I got to tell you, one of the things that sort of struck me being the mom of a
semi newly minted teenager is that I was surprised she was working at the pond alone.
>> I have to agree with you, Amory, that was concerning. Um, I was a lifeguard many years before that and I was never
alone. Um, not because anyone feared I was going to get kidnapped, but because if I had to go in and I did have to do
that once, go in for a child, someone else has to be there to call the alarm to, you know, help me bring the the
child in if the child needs CPR, anything like that. So, it really surprised me that she would be alone
there. M. So, here's the thing, though. Once they determine that she's missing, I mean, they really do spring into
action. There's an extensive search that's launched. Hundreds of tips start flooding in after police release a
sketch. It is a description that Maggie gives them of a man that she remembers seeing in the parking lot. Um, he has a
white car with him and he's at Cummings Pond the day before Molly disappeared. What about this man really stuck out to
Maggie? >> Well, according to Maggie, here's this man sitting in this white car. Um,
usually families go there to go swimming and he's just sitting there smoking a cigarette with his left hand. Um,
clearly it was a little bit of mother's instinct and just like concerned, why is
he there? She tried to put it out of her head, but it it just kept bugging her. So that night she was concerned enough
that she raised it with Molly and Molly just as 16-year-olds might do um said, "Oh, mom, he's probably a fisherman."
And she just kind of dismissed it. But it clearly bugged Maggie. Um but then the next day when Maggie did drop Molly
off, there was nobody sitting there. So I think it was after her daughter disappeared that she realized that
really may have been important. So, after 3 years, there was a breakthrough in the case. Uh, police are notified
that there's a blue bathing suit that was found about 5 miles from Cumins Pond. It resembles the one that Molly
was wearing on the day she disappeared. You interviewed a local reporter Kathy Curran who described what that moment
was like for Maggie and John Bish and it was you know obviously very emotional uh
for them as parents that kind of realization that if you're finding the bathing suit and you're not finding her
this is not a good sign. Um but what I was surprised about was how emotional Kathy was. They trusted Kathy. Um,
that's the benefit of reporters staying on a story from the beginning and staying on it. They trusted her and they
needed to have that information. And let's be honest, as we also know, police sometimes and investigators don't share
everything with the family and the family wanted to know and they pushed Kathy to tell them and I think she
struggled with it and that's why she's tearful. But um they wanted to know. >> Yeah. And and I think you know when
you're a journalist um and you know that maybe you have an awareness of of news that will be heartbreaking to the
family. It's really difficult to determine what the right thing to do is in that moment. But it certainly seems
like, you know, Maggie and her husband were were appreciative to get that opportunity to uh know, you know, what
police already knew. >> That is one of the most moving parts of the hour. When we realize that a mother
is about to face reality, if you didn't have that bathing suit, you always had hope. And that bathing suit meant there
was no more hope. Yeah. So, another really fascinating person that you spoke to uh during this hour was Dr. Anarie
Meyers. She is a forensic anthropologist who works for the Boston Medical Examiner's Office. I had never heard of
a forensic anthropologist before. I mean, how rare is it to come across one of those?
>> Well, it's not as rare anymore. I mean, I've run into the forensic anthropologists on quite a number of
stories very similar to this. What happens is, you know, investigators are determined not just to solve the case,
but also, especially when someone's missing, to bring that person back to his or her family. But sometimes it's
difficult I mean after in this case just 3 years um to determine whether first if
bones are found whether they are animal or human and that's something a forensic
anthropologist can do right away. I should also talk a little bit about the search which is really interesting to me
and that was organized by the anthropologist. It's a grid search when they're looking
for bones. And so you see these lines of police officers and investigators and volunteers who are going with rakes and
walking looking for even tiny bones. So they they have to just really scour every part of that area. We're talking
about 35 acres. So it did take days and weeks to do that. And one other thing I thought was so interesting that we
learned from Dr. Myers is that when someone disappears, she tells investigators if you're in a urban area, that person
could be found within a mile and a half radius. In a rural area, it's going to be maybe up to 5 miles. And guess what?
In this case, Molly was found about 5 miles away from Cumins Pond. >> She was spot on. but also she was able
to tell us that this young woman Molly was left there but wasn't buried there. And you're about to hear something that
we didn't even air in our hour. Why that matters. We could tell that she was placed there because the the the fluids
from decomposition are so costic. Okay. Um that they burn the foliage. It literally doesn't allow the foliage to
grow for a while. >> So you can actually see an imprint of her body. >> You could see an imprint
>> even three years later. >> Even three years later because the foliage had not recovered from that
where she was was >> they did not find all the remains. They found up to 27 bones and her skull. And
why it matters that you could determine whether she was actually buried or laid there was Dr. Meyer said it's very
likely that the person who killed Molly and left her there was in a rush. Um and
and Dr. Meyers also believed that it happened very shortly after she disappeared and was murdered.
>> And then sadly, and this was something else Dr. Myers told us um is that there
was a large animal there who scattered the bones and made it so difficult for searchers to find uh Molly. So, you
know, once bones are are found, the Bish family are able to have a funeral. But what I thought was really interesting
about something that Molly's mom, Maggie, said, um it stuck out to me. She said she felt blessed that she could
have a funeral in a church. Amir, I think what she was also saying was that she had her baby back. Um,
they are religious. Um, and they they relied on their faith and have always relied on their faith to get through
this. But I think it was also the idea um, we see this time and time again. There's nothing worse, nothing worse for
a family than when someone disappears and they are not found. And they at least knew where Molly was and they
could go visit Molly and it was a huge funeral. So, they got the comfort of the entire community coming [music] out um
mourning with them. But you know, anyone who watches this hour, you'll see almost
the entire time Maggie cries through the interview. So, the pain is still there.
Welcome back. In May of 2004, uh 4 years after Molly disappeared, then DA John Ki
called for a grand jury to be convened. Now, according to the Bish family, who were called to testify, many of the
questions focused on Molly's friends, but then 2 years later, the grand jury was dismissed without an indictment.
This seems unusual to me, Aaron. Well, dissolving after two years, that's a long time, but the whole thing was rare.
Let's be honest, your instincts are right. Um, usually grand juries are used so that prosecutors who think they're
very close to being able to bring charges um will bring in witnesses where they think they can get probable cause
or enough probable cause to convince a judge that they should be able to bring charges against someone. That's what
grand juries are usually used for. But there are investigative grand juries and that's what in fact the now current DA
Joe Early says this was for. Um, and that is possible because the benefit of a grand jury is that you can pull people
in who don't want to talk and they have to. There's a subpoena. Um, and they have to tell the truth because they're
under oath. So, it's it's very possible that this was from the beginning an investigative grand jury. Two years is a
long time and very expensive, but because all the testimony is sealed, we really can't tell exactly what happened,
but we do know that it is unusual and no indictments came out of it. >> I mean, for the Bish family, it must
have been incredibly frustrating. They are sitting there, they're hearing all these questions about Molly's friends,
and I'm sure they're wondering, well, what do they know that we should know? Um, and then at the end of two years,
they they really get no answers. And not only do they not get answers from the grand jury, and they can't find out what
people said, but the investigators aren't telling them much either. And you and I both know this, Amory, this
happens all the time because investigators are always worried if they say something to the family, the
family's going to tell friends that it's going to get out. So, it was very, very
difficult for the family, as you can imagine. Heather was so frustrated. Um, she's the older sister. She doesn't have
answers and she wants answers like everybody else. >> Wow. And this is what's particularly
impressive about Heather because she is of course a very vocal advocate. She's been so throughout the years, but she
wants to raise public awareness about this case and she does something that is sort of not not natural for her to do.
She heads to Tik Tok. She does head to Tik Tok and you and I are both seeing that more and more now. Heather so much
believes that she might be able to keep this case alive and and get tips that as
of now she's done about 250 videos. Think about that. And has 12,000 followers. But even before there was Tik
Tok, Heather was already on the case. And she would get tips from people and bring them to the police. She heard
about a man who had been charged um with killing his girlfriend in Florida, a guy
by the name of Rodney Stanganger, who was familiar with War in Massachusetts, but had moved to Florida. And the
victim's sister had actually reached out and said he might be involved in Molly's
murder. And so that was one of the tips that Heather gave police. And it turned out that Rodney Sanger had been on their
radar. And in fact, they went and talked to him and later searched his trailer. And then later on, a private
investigator told Heather about a man by the name of Gerald Bastoni. Um, who also had an extensive police
record. And and in fact, again, Heather found out that he was also someone that they had looked at from the beginning.
And we want to remind our listeners that there was not enough evidence to name Rodney Stanganger or Gerald Badeston as
suspects. Um it does take, you know, more than two decades after Molly disappears. It's June 3rd, 2021, and
police actually do name a person of interest. His name is Frank Sumner. Uh we learned in the hour that he's a local
auto repair shop owner. He looks like that police sketch. He resembles it. He has access or had access to a white car
and he was previously convicted of rape and kidnapping >> and >> and smoking with the left hand,
>> right? >> So that to me is so significant. I mean that just stays in your head when you
watch the hour. But I should point out a little bit of background on Sumar. who was convicted back in 1982 for
aggravated rape and kidnapping after luring a woman to an apartment, choking her, and then threatening to kill her
and raping her. He was parrolled in 1998, which was 2 years before Molly disappeared. And after his release, he
accumulated a lengthy criminal record over 20 pages long that included multiple charges, failure to register as
a sex offender, disorderly conduct, and harassment. And all those were still pending when he died. And um after the
current DA had named Frank Sumner as a person of interest, Sumar's family became very upset and they said, you
know, where's where's the proof? You know, um we have a large family. You know, we all share his name. Where's the
proof? The DA tried to compare Sumner's DNA with DNA found at the crime scene, but the problem was Sumner was cremated.
And somehow they had never taken his DNA while he was in prison. It was not in the FBI Kota system. So, uh, they sent
investigators to Ohio and they took the DNA of his son and then after a year or so they announced that it's inconclusive
and but won't explain what that means. That is so disappointing. Clearly, you know, COTUS has its limitations because
it's only a certain pool of individuals that are going to be found in Cotus. But
you would think somebody convicted of rape, it would be guaranteed that his DNA would be on file somewhere,
>> right? But you know what? Some of the older cases, they weren't doing DNA back
then. I think it's more common now that they're making sure that uh particularly
people convicted of very serious crimes have their DNA in the system. But um I think that there's still a lot of hope
as we've seen in so many cases recently as the testing for DNA gets better. I think the big question in this case is
do they even have the killer's DNA? Um, if you remember the three hours of a delay before they really took this as a
kidnapping, not just a young woman who disappeared. So, you had a contaminated crime scene. And so, while investigators
did pick up cigarette butts and picked up everything, do they actually have DNA evidence from the killer? You actually
went someplace really interesting for this hour. You visited the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab's DNA cold
storage facility. What was that like? >> Well, I had never been number one in a storage facility like that. That was so
cold. And um it gave me great comfort to see how much evidence has been preserved. Um, and what we also learned
while we were there is that um, as DNA tests improve, then that means that some of the evidence that they think is most
important or could be important can be tested. I mean, even though it's been decades, there's at least one person who
is confident that Molly's killer will be found, and it's a new detective, Detective Chelsea Safford. She was hired
to take over the Bish investigation. I mean, she was very clear um that she believes that she will find they will
find Molly's killer. I appreciate the confidence. What I kept on thinking was, well, what are you going to do
differently? Well, you know, I know this sounds a little cliche, but she is going
to add fresh eyes. And I have seen that where young investigators, she's young, she's a woman, might bring new ideas,
might find something. She's going back through. She said there were like 8,000 tips that had come in. She's going back
through those to see if there's a tip that maybe now 25 years later, you look at and you go, "Oh my god." Um, and so,
you know, I appreciate her optimism and it's important for the community and it's important for the family. I'm I'm
hoping for the family and everyone that is so invested in this that there is an end to this case and uh 48 hours can do
that followup as well. Um, thank you so much for talking with us, Erin. >> Well, it's always great talking about
these cases and they stay in our hearts for a long time. >> Yeah. Um, and thank you all for
listening. If you like this podcast, [music] please rate and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. And if you have any
information that can help authorities find Molly's killer, please reach out to the Molly Bish tip line. That number is
5084537575. [music]

Join "48 Hours" correspondents Anne-Marie Green and Erin Moriarty as they discuss the murder of 16-year-old Molly Bish, whose killer still has not been identified more than two decades later.

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Molly Bish's unsolved murder case is revisited, highlighting new leads and family efforts for justice.

Key points

The Disappearance of Molly Bish. Molly Bish, a 16-year-old lifeguard, vanished from a Massachusetts pond in 2000. Her case remains unsolved, raising questions about the investigation.
New Developments After 25 Years. As the 25th anniversary approaches, new leads and a fresh detective bring renewed hope to the Bish family.
A Mother's Instinct. Molly's mother, Maggie, recalls a suspicious man at the pond before her daughter's disappearance. This instinct haunts her after the tragedy.
The Emotional Impact of Discovery. Finding Molly's bathing suit was a devastating moment for her parents, signaling a grim reality.
A New Detective's Perspective. Detective Chelsea Safford takes over the investigation, promising to revisit old tips with fresh eyes.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is a tough story to talk about.

Ann Marie Green introduces the case of Molly Bish.

0:39WatchDec 13, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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