Episode 793: The San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Pollen Morbid. [music] Oh my god. Pollen is destroying
everybody's lives over here. >> Is pollen eating your insides alive? >> Yeah. Is pollen
Raise your hand if you've been personally victimized by pollen. Everybody shoots hands in the air.
>> Pollen is rough right now. We had an air quality alert yesterday that was like,
"Hey, you should probably stay inside." >> I'm getting murdered by pollen. Like,
it's really, really bad. I've never had allergies this bad in my I've never had allergies period. Really?
>> And I do be having not only allergies, but guess what? I have asthma. >> Yeah.
>> All of a sudden, the doctor said, "Honey, you have asthma." [laughter] And I said, "I haven't had asthma since I
was a child. I thought it went away." >> And they said, "No." >> He said, "It doesn't quite work like
that." So Alina is taking one for the team. And she took the up for me [laughter] because I'm hacking up a
lung. I'm out of breath. >> Yeah. There was no way I was I was going to make her talk for an entire hour or
so, however long this will be. >> Honestly, you guys wouldn't have wanted to hear it.
>> Yeah. We don't need her hacking all over, you know. I don't want to I don't want to hack on you and and what you're
going through with pollen already. >> Yeah. You know, >> but I do have something for you. Yeah.
>> Because it's my birthday today if you're listening. >> Tech it's like in a couple days if from
now, but if you're listening when this comes out, >> it'll be Ash's birthday. >> So, we have a sale for you on the Morbid
merch store um which is at Sirius. Um Let me actually give you the actual website.
>> Okay. So, it's literally just SiriusXM store and then there's another one for
if you don't live in this country and that's in our Instagram bio. >> Yeah. >> Um, but the if you use the code ash sale
assh sale, then you can get 25% off your order. >> Yay. Do it. >> It's really fun. We have a couple new
things in the store. We have the candle which smells so [ __ ] good. >> We did. We picked the scent
specifically. >> We did. We have the horned hoodie, which I'm really excited about. We have the
Nicholas shirt if you're a Nicholas supporter. >> I love the Nicholas shirt. >> I've also seen a lot of you coming
around on Nicholas. >> I have, too. And it warms my heart. Yeah, >> it really does. And this shirt is how
you can show your support. >> Show your support for for good old Saint Nick. >> Yeah.
>> Who is not Staint Nick, but he's our Nick. >> He's our Saint Nick. >> We need to post um when that video from
when we unpacked the printer. >> Oh, yeah. cuz I think I think we can speed it up a little bit. Um,
[clears throat] and I think Nicholas visited us. Uh, yeah, I think Nicholas was helping me put away stuff from the
printer that I was unboxing and he was like, "You have more room in this box. Let me push this stuff down for you."
Because I was sitting there just watching as all of the packing stuff was being slowly pushed down
>> and it was all like like obviously things rustle when you put them back in a box. So, at first we were like, "Okay,
maybe it's just that." But then it continued for 3 minutes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm going to post the sped up
version of that. >> It's a little strange. >> Yeah. >> A little strange. >> Paranormal, if you will.
>> But yeah, use that code ash sale. 25% off. >> That's a good deal. >> It's pretty sick. So, if you are
waiting, >> it's almost like I'm turning 25. >> Almost. But you're not. >> I'm not. [laughter]
I'm not. Look at her now. She's calling me old. I was going to say you've had fun with mine now. Ash is Ash is the big
three 0. Everybody by my 20s. >> I am. I'm having a a funeral for my 20s. >> Honestly, 30s are when things get
awesome. >> I'm so ready to leave my 20s in the dust. A lot of great things happened
like in the later years of my 20s, but like the early to mid of my 20s. Quite mid. [laughter]
>> Quite mid if mid, if you will. Oh, well, we have uh today, this was Ash's case at
first, so I got the pleasure of reading this and going, "Oh." >> I said, "Here, I did half of this." I
said, "I'll give you my other half." >> Yeah. So, I read read through this and said, "Oh my."
>> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> Uh, we're covering the San Cedro McDonald's massacre today.
>> This is a really, really brutal case. >> Yeah. I I would like to give a big big
trigger warning right off the bat. Um I'm not going to this isn't going to be gruesome in the sense of me explaining
everyone's injuries or anything like that. This is a mass shooting that can be very triggering for people. I
completely understand if this episode is one you say, "Hey, I'll see you on Thursday."
>> Totally. >> Totally get it. But again, I'm not going to get crazy with my descriptions. Um
but this is rough. It is >> and it's scary. and it's horrific and he's a monster and uh it's a really
rough one. So, I just I need you to know that right out the bat uh right out the
gate that that this is rough and it's a mass shooting. So, again, >> if that is something that you are like
this is just not one of the ones that I can do. >> We totally understand. Yeah, >> we totally get it. So, like we'll see
you Thursday if that's the case. >> Yeah, we'll miss you. We get it. >> But it is a story that needs to be told
because one, these people lost their lives. these innocent people who were just going to McDonald's.
>> Well, there was just so many warning signs in this case from the time that Jim, who is the mass murderer,
>> Jim Puberty, just so many signs from the time that he was a small child. >> Like he should have received help.
>> Yeah. Like >> I don't know exactly what help or what it would have done, >> but he needed some he needed something.
>> Yeah. And also, um, coincidentally, it's men's mental, uh, health awareness month. So, this is kind of a
>> this kind of fits really perfect in this because there was several times that
people around him said, "Yeah, it was so crazy." He like said he was going to kill everybody and he couldn't wait to,
you know, shoot things into people's flesh. And yeah, he's a weird guy. >> He constantly talked about like
destroying people's bodies. >> It's like, I don't know. Some sometimes it's okay to reach out and say,
>> "Yeah, >> hey, this person is speaking in a way that makes me think he might hurt
someone." It's okay. Like, you can do it anonymously. This was in the, you know,
this was in the 80s, >> you know, growing up in the 70s and stuff, things were a little different
for sure. Like, it was not >> people, they were not out here getting help for especially men's mental health.
>> You grew up like in the Midwest, which obviously like is a totally different culture. There were factors here that
for sure we can look back with the hindsight of 2026 and say why didn't anybody do anything and things were
different. So we do have to use those lenses to look at it. >> But now in 2026 if someone around you is
making these kind of statements or acting these kind of ways >> to call someone.
>> It's you see something say something. It's like you can you can do it anonymously but like just
>> whenever you can try to >> cuz you can avoid catastrophes like this. And also like
>> that person needs help. >> Yeah. Like he needed to be this man needed to be he's like a he's like a bad
person at his core. >> Well, that's a really mentally ill man at his core. >> He's also racist. He's also a he beats
his own children. Like his daughters, he beats his wife. Like >> he's a at his core Jim Puberty is an
evil piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> And that's the thing that I think we all need to realize is you can be two thing.
Two things can be true at once. He can be mentally ill and he can also be a really [ __ ] bad person. Not everybody
who's mentally ill is a really great person and they just suffer from this thing. Of course, there are plenty of
people who are really good people who are kind and good people and suffer from mental illness and do things they
normally wouldn't have done and don't want to do. That is 100% often the case to be honest. But there is also cases
when somebody is violently mentally ill and should and does need extensive help but is also just a really bad person at
their core and would have done something bad >> regardless of the mental illness
possibly. So >> Jim Huberty to me falls into that category. He's just a bad person. He's
not nice. He's violent to children. He's violent to women. He's violent to men. He's violent to
>> He's horrible and he says horrible things. He >> he's just not he was never around him
like he just Yeah. And he seemed like he was that way from pretty young. So yeah.
So that is that is definitely one of those situations here. And again, this is a tough one, but we're going to get
into it. >> All right. So everybody mark your timers. >> Yep. >> Here we are. On the evening of July
15th, 1984, James Huberty and his wife Edna, were sitting on the couch watching TV when James, who was better known as
Jim, casually mentioned that he thought he was experiencing symptoms of mental illness. Uh, Edna had long suspected
that something was going on with Jim. He had violent mood swings. He couldn't regulate his emotions at all. He had a
crazy explosive temper. He was very violent. Um, he was also racist. And that was the first time she'd ever heard
him acknowledge his struggles pretty directly. >> I do wonder what all of a sudden made
him realize that something was off because like we said in the beginning for so much of his life it was like
that. I'm like >> off the rails for his whole life. So I don't know what made him just go
>> I think I need help. >> I wonder if he knew. I mean I think he did >> at this point. I think he said, "I'm
going to do something real bad." >> Yeah. >> If I And and maybe there was a small
part of him that was like, "I should probably try to stop myself." And I wonder if he also was looking at this
as, okay, if they accept me, cuz he does call for help. >> If they accept this and they help me,
then >> then that's how it's supposed to be. Yeah, >> but if they decide not, then they are
proving everything that I believe about the government, about society, about human beings.
>> And then they deserve it. I think that's exactly what his >> um and this is another this mental
health help back then pretty bad. Pretty bad. [clears throat] And even now, we always need to get
better. So, this is a good little thing about that. >> So, yeah. So Edna became even more
hopeful a few days later when she noticed him on the phone with a local mental health center. Uh so she was
like, "What are you doing?" And he said he had called to make an appointment. And at the time there was no one
available to take his call, which already you're like, >> "Uh, good. >> What do you mean?" [laughter] But
>> you know, he called during lunch on purpose. >> Yeah, exactly. But the receptionist at
the center took his information and said someone would get back to him within a few hours. Now, when he spoke to the
receptionist, he was polite. He was calm. He sounded composed. So there was no reason for them to suspect, this is
back then, >> that he was in crisis. Now we know now that someone in crisis is not always
screaming and yelling and crying. They are not always saying something crazy or quote unquote crazy that you think is
going to like >> really cause some damage. Like I think now we're a lot more wellversed on the
idea that somebody in crisis is not always the typical crisis that you're thinking in your mind. But according to
them, he didn't say anything to indicate that he was. So the call was logged as noncrisis.
Noncrisis calls were returned in the order they received, typically within 48 hours. Unfortunately, the receptionist
also misheard his name when he gave his last name, and she wrote it down as Huberty. Now, even more unfortunate, by
the time his message came up in the queue to be returned, it was too late. James Huberty had already killed 21
people and was killed by the San Diego police snipers bullet. So James Hubert's shocking killing spree
and violent death was definitely just the period on a life filled with a lot of chaos and a lot of things a lot of
like we were saying times when someone should have stepped in >> warning signs. >> He was born October 11th 1942 in Canton,
Ohio. He was the second of two children born to Earl and Eel. Just a few years later, when he was three years old, Jim
contracted polio. >> Yeah. >> And had to wear leather and metal braces for a long period of time. I mean,
thanks to the braces, he was able to walk again. But they caused him to have a different walk than he might have had
before. And according to one of his primary school teachers, that alone was enough to make him the target for
bullies. And the other children made fun of him and were just >> kids suck. >> Yeah. Like get it together and teach
your kids not to be [ __ ] >> How are you making fun of somebody with polio? >> My god. If I ever found out my kids were
making fun of someone for the way they walked, we'd have we'd have a talk. When Jim was 7 years old, his father bought a
155 acre farm in Monten, Mount Eaton. That was about 20 miles away from Canton, and he moved the almost the
whole family, I should say. >> Almost. Jim's mother was pretty resistant to the idea from the start and
just refused to move with her family, >> which is wild. >> Instead, she packed her bags, headed
west, and joined a Pentecostal missionary group, abandoning her entire family. >> Yeah. Great.
>> So, obviously, this was extremely hard on Jim and his sister Ruth. And he would
like like his father would just find him like crying like at various times. >> Yeah. Just all over the property,
>> which is really like obviously you can feel bad for the kid version of him. That's awful. Yeah,
>> you had your mom for seven years of your life and then she's like you cuz she's
like I don't feel like moving. >> Oh, okay. >> Now at school was taunted and mistreated
by you know his by Pierce from everything from his appearance, the way he walked to the fact that his mother
abandoned him. Like imagine people making fun of you because you're you were abandoned as a child. What about
that is funny? >> I don't know. My brain can't wrap around it. It literally can't.
>> What's the And also just like what's the joke then? >> Well, that's the What is the joke?
>> Lol. Your mom left. >> And it's like, >> yeah, >> okay, >> that's funny to you.
>> What is the joke? Like, I don't understand what the like, it's so weird. It's so [ __ ] up.
>> So, he was unable to make friends a lot of the time. He spent a lot of his time
alone or with the family dog just >> developing a really sullen and angry temperament.
>> Yeah. I feel like for children to be alone and isolated for too long >> and being mistreated by their peers
>> at the same time is just truly a recipe for disaster, >> especially when nothing else is being
done, you know. >> And then you have like abandonment from a mom >> can [ __ ] a kid up.
>> Yeah. >> Obviously. So just >> lots of [snorts] lots of little [ __ ] happening. Now, when he reached junior
high, he started to develop a strong interest in guns and shooting, and he would spend the rest of his life
obsessively cultivating his own collection. >> The word obsessive, it's like >> that doesn't even begin to describe it.
>> He was >> Yeah, >> he was a gun. >> Yeah, he literally was. Now, years later, his former co-workers in Ohio
would describe him to a reporter as fanatical. That's not a good way to be. uh with one supervisor saying he had a
lot of guns and he always said that he wanted to kill a lot of people. >> If somebody is always saying that they
want to kill a lot of people, you have a problem cuz like also what was your response to that? Okay, Jim.
Like also this whole case had me wondering does any place that he works have an HR department? I I don't know if
HR departments back then were just like [snorts] chilling. >> Yeah. [laughter] I don't know what they
were doing, but it's like if he's at work saying he has a lot of guns and he really wants to kill a lot of people,
>> you got to call someone. >> You got to call someone. But at the time, he was just a lonely like again
this was years later that that was being happening, but we're staying in the past
here cuz at the time he was just a lonely boy who had found a way to pass the time. And in a rural place like
Mount Eaton, guns and shooting were not exactly uncommon. It's not like this was
a weird fixation. >> Hunting was like a big deal. I mean, he lives on a farm. >> Now, throughout his high school years,
he kind of kept a low profile. He didn't join any teams or clubs. He had like a few friendships, maybe. Um, he really
just spent most of his time at home enthusiastically pursuing his hobby of guns. By the time he was in his late
teens, he had become something of like an he was like an amateur gunsmith really. He learned how to make and load
his own ammunition, alter his weapons, making small improvements to things like grip and sights.
>> Scary when you know what the outcome is, >> for sure. Now, after graduating from
high school, he enrolled at Malone College, a small Quaker school in Canton, and he studied sociology there
before dropping out two years later and moving to Pennsylvania, where he went to
the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science. After graduating in 1963, he found work as a mortician's apprentice
at a local funeral home. And during that time, he became a licensed inbalmer and
mortician. His former employer, Don Williams, said, "I told him he was in the wrong business. He was a good
inbomber, but he just didn't relate to people." >> Yeah, you don't say. >> It turned out that at least on some
level, Jim agreed. uh because within a year of being licensed in Ohio, he'd quit the mortuary business altogether
and taken a job as an assembly line uh worker at a local factory. Changing careers wasn't the only big
change in his life at the time, though. He'd also started dating at Ner Mark MKland. And in 1965, they got married at
Trinity Gospel Temple in Canton, Ohio. >> I just wonder like what their meat cute
was. >> I wonder what she saw in him because no one liked him. Nobody he was very
miserable all the time. >> And I also just wonder like did they get through their first date without him
mentioning that he wanted to kill a lot of people. >> That's the thing. I'm like he seems like
he is just you see any of the people talking about him and everyone's like he was just a miserable person to be
around. Not cuz he was sad all the time. He was mean and angry and said horrible
[ __ ] and would talk about killing people. He liked to talk about the different bullets and the like damage
they inflicted on human flesh. Like >> nobody wants to talk about that. >> What is it about him? I I figured this
is the kind of guy that would stay alone forever. >> I know. >> But no. From the moment he first met
Jim, the pastor who married the couple, David Lombardi, actually had reservations about the relationship and
the marriage completely. He said he had real inner conflicts. By the time he was
dating Etna, he was atheistic and blamed God for taking his mother away from him.
I'd like to point out that him being like leaning towards being atheist has literally nothing to do with like
>> inner conflicts of this magnitude. >> Yeah, I think [laughter] I think that's
important to point out like, you know what I mean? I think he has a lot of inner conflicts,
>> but I don't think him being an atheist is one of them. I think that's I'm [laughter] like, okay,
>> that's just a thing. >> Yeah. He also said that Jim was halfway intelligent, but when you dealt with
him, you always felt a little uneasy about the way he harbored something inside. He was pent up. He was a loner
and he had kind of an explosive personality. Those are definitely his inner conflicts.
>> And that's what everyone said, specifically explosive. >> Mhm. Even after marriage and buying a
house, his interpersonal skills never got much better than when he was a kid. And he was still struggling to control
his explosive anger. Small conflicts at work usually escalated really quickly with Jim taking out way more offense at
some, you know, light things like teasing or perceived slights. Like I don't like teasing either.
>> I hate teasing, >> but like you can't explode and go off the handle at people.
>> And sometimes people are just trying to like have a good time. Like I don't think they were necessarily like
bullying him, you know? >> No. And the best thing to do in those situations is to tell someone like,
"Hey, I don't really love >> Yeah. >> I don't really love being teased like that." It kind of like sets something
off and they'll be like, "Oh shit." All right. >> Yeah. >> That's how you get to know people.
That's how you And also that's how you teach people how to treat you. >> Yeah. Cuz you that's what you have to
do. >> Exploding in anger at someone cuz they do something like that won't get you
anywhere. They're not going to learn anything except, "Wow, you're an asshole." >> Yeah. I don't want to be
>> It's like if you just I hate teasing. So there's been times where I've had to say
to people, "Hey, like I actually don't love that. >> Like don't poke me." >> And they're like, "Oh [ __ ] sorry." And
then they know how to treat you. >> Yeah. >> Teach them. Teach them everybody. >> It's true. But even people who attempted
friendly conversation or like small talk found him to be very unpleasant and all
described him as hostile. >> Uh his gun obsession got way worse as well. He covered his entire home in
guns. His coworker Jim Alanes recalled, "No matter where he was sitting or standing in the house, he could reach
over and get a gun." >> To me, that's too much. >> That's scary to me. >> My personal opinion, I think that's too
much. >> My personal thing is like I don't have anything against guns. Like if you are
somebody who responsibly uses a gun, >> oh awesome. Like good for you, man. Uh like I really don't have a problem with
it. If you are responsible with it, I fully support it >> having >> I don't understand having that many.
>> Yeah. >> But that's I that's just something I don't understand. I'm not saying you're
a bad person for it. I just mean I don't get it personally. >> I also think especially in this case
because later on he does go on to have two children. Guns should not just be accessible in the home. You should not
be able to reach anywhere and get a gun if you have like kids in the house. It's
just not safe. >> So dangerous. >> It's just not safe. We've seen it. >> And again, Jim could also usually be
found sitting by the front door of his house, door open with a shotgun across his lap,
waiting. Yeah. >> And that's not responsible. >> That's not being a responsible gun
owner. It was precisely that type of bizarre threatening behavior that he was constantly exhibiting that convinced his
coworker Jim as lanes that he did not want to get to know him outside of work. He said, "It was little things like that
just showed me there was something wrong with him." >> Which is very astute. In 1972, Etna gave
birth to the couple's first child, a daughter who was followed by a second daughter two years later. If anyone
expected fatherhood to change or soften Jim Huberty, they were going to be sorely disappointed. Not only was he
unwilling to change his increasingly confrontational, reckless behavior cuz he saw no need to set the safety on any
of his guns, even with toddlers in the house. >> And that's the kind of thing I'm saying
is it's like he was a very irresponsible gun >> and just an [ __ ] Like he literally
didn't care about his kids at all. >> But he also seemed mostly uninterested in parenting altogether, which like why
did you have kids then? Exactly. >> Years later, after the couple moved to San Diego, many of the neighbors would
recall that while Jim seemed to have a general dislike for most people, he seemed to loathe children,
>> which like >> what's wrong with >> how do you not like kids? >> Just you don't have to be around them if
you don't want to. >> Like I get it. Some kids are annoying for sure. Like I usually only like the
ones related to me, >> but like kids are adorable. Come on. >> I Here's the thing. If people make a
choice not to have kids, more power to you. >> Yeah. fully like hell yeah. >> Well, if you're making that choice,
clearly that's the right choice for you. >> Yeah, because that's the choice. You're
being a responsible human and you're saying, you know what, I don't want that and you don't need to have that or want
that. Good for you. In fact, I applaud you. >> But when people make it their entire
personality that they hate children, >> that's weird. >> That's weird cuz [laughter] it's like
you don't need to have them. >> Yeah. It's not a requirement. >> So, so just don't
>> I do like it's okay. I will say I think back then it did feel like more of like
a requirement like it was like you got married and then you had to have kids. >> And I think a lot of people feel like
weird societal pressure. >> Yeah. >> Like I'm sure Etna did, you know. >> Yeah, for sure.
>> So, but still like maybe not with Jim, babe. >> Maybe not. Like Jim Jim doesn't seem
like he's he's great here. No. >> Uh and again like himless like loathing children. I'm like get over him.
>> It's weird. A former neighbor of his told the New York Times, "Everybody talks about that here. He was always
yelling at kids. >> That would have pissed me off." [laughter] Uh, now when it came to the children in
his neighborhood, Jim's frustration and anger was limited to yelling and calling
them names. You know, norm normal adult behavior with children. >> With his own children, on the other
hand, he was known to have been verbally, emotionally, and physically violent. On one occasion, just a week or
two before the shooting spree, this is horrendous. This is really, by the way, >> uh, the Hubert's neighbor, Wanda, was
surprised when Jim's older daughter showed up at her door with welts all over her face. Poor baby.
>> And when she asked what happened, the girl replied her daddy had slapped her around.
>> That's so sad. >> [ __ ] Jim puberty. >> And to just like say that so openly,
>> casually, like that's >> clearly he didn't give a [ __ ] because he's willing to send his daughter.
>> Yeah. He doesn't care >> and he knows she's going to say what happened. It's like
>> and she's saying it like, "Isn't this just something that happened?" >> Yeah, that's what dads do, right?
>> Yeah. That's horrific. >> So sad. >> In the winter of 1971, their house caught fire while they were all out of
the house. Uh at that time, Jim was storing large containers of gunpowder in the basement. And when the fire reached
that area of the house, it just went up in a huge giant fireball. Like destroyed
the whole explosion. >> Yeah. Like down [clears throat] to the foundation. But they actually bounced
back pretty quick and they bought a three like a big three-story home on the lot next to where their old house was.
And then on the now vacant lot, they built a six-unit apartment building that would eventually provide them extra
income. >> Imagine Jim Huberty being your landlord. >> No, thank you. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he didn't really
handle anything. >> Probably not. According to one author, any success that they experienced during
this time was probably certainly Edna's hard work. >> Uh for most, if not all of their
marriage, she did literally everything. She managed the household, the children.
She dealt with the world outside of the home cuz he couldn't. >> In the morning, he would she would get
her husband and children out of bed, lay out their clothes, pack their lunches, and get them to their various locations.
>> She had three children. >> Yeah. and she was always going out of her way to limit Jim's interactions with
the people around them, terrified that any conversation or miscommunication would escalate into like physical
violence or him exploding, which gives in this sense I feel so horrible because Edna obviously felt terrified
>> like this was her lot. >> Well, and the other thing is >> she was just trying to limit his
exposure to other people. >> Exactly. And I'm sure a part of her was probably terrified to leave him. Like,
>> oh, she was probably horrified. >> I'm not condoning the fact that she didn't cuz obviously he's beating her
and their children. Like, that's awful. >> But she's probably so scared. He has a
zillion guns. >> That's the thing. It's like >> and he's going to see that as like
another slight. Who's to say he's not going to go after you and your babies? >> And again, it's easy for us to sit here
from a place where we have like loving, safe partners. >> Yeah. >> And say, you know, like I would get out
of that house. I don't know what that feels like. And I and I can't sit here and claim that I do or feel like I would
be the superwoman that knew what to do when our entire house is covered in insane amounts of guns
>> to the point where we'll explode if there's a fire. >> Explosive and hurting all of us and
threatening all of that. Like I don't That's living hell. I can't fathom that. >> It wasn't easy for a woman in the 70s to
break out on her own with two children. You couldn't even get a [ __ ] credit card.
>> Exactly. So, it's like that's horrific. It really is. Like, it's horrific. [sighs] I hate it. It's so sad. But
yeah, she was always just trying to keep him from getting in trouble essentially.
And behind closed doors though, he had no trouble taking out his anger on the entire family. She said, and this is so
sad. It is. >> She said, quote, "Generally, it was just one hit, but there were other times that
he would beat them all relentlessly. >> Uh, he even threatened one of his daughters with a butcher knife once."
Literally, they're >> insane. >> Like young kids. And I mean, I don't even care if your daughter's 35 years
old and you threaten her with a butcher knife. What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?
>> There's He's a horrific monster. He really is. >> For just about anyone who knew or even
those who had just met him, Jim Hubert's rage and extremely unpleasant demeanor were definitely the primary problems.
But just beneath that were other more subtle signs of emotional distress that generally went overlooked. Cuz again,
that's the same thing we're saying. He's just a bad person. He's just a nasty, mean, violent, bad person who is
severely mentally unwwell. >> Right. On top of all, >> and it's like, he's probably one of
>> the scariest types of people you can imagine. Oh, yeah. This isn't a kind-hearted person who has a mental
health crisis. This is a bad monster who is currently suffering really severely with mental health
problems. It's like that is the worst combination I can think of. It absolutely >> truly which makes me feel for his
children and his wife even more because living with that is unthinkable >> cuz you just never know what you're
going to get >> and you just know it's all bad. >> It's got to be dark as hell. >> Like there's no way of getting beneath
this mental health crisis cuz underneath is a bad person. So there's no like light at the end of the tunnel with him.
>> It's just really sad. But as early as the mid 1970s, Edna started encouraging her husband to seek
mental health like help, which like kudos to her. >> Seems like she was the only person that
did that. >> She's trying. And in one instance, Jim told her God and Jesus Christ were
consulting him about the government and President Carter, >> which is really, really scary.
>> Which shows you right there, he's mentally unwell. >> Not well. In another instance, Jim told
a coworker he, and this is really sad, he'd killed one of his dogs for speaking to him.
>> And he went on to explain that the dog hadn't spoken to him verbally, but had
communicated through his eyes in a way that Jim understood and didn't appreciate.
>> I can't imagine my coworker looking at me and telling me that. Like, that's chill you to your spine scary.
>> Now, to Jim, everybody was always out to get him in one way or another. And in
time, he became consumed by his desire to get back at anyone who slighted him. If he received bad customer service
somewhere, he would make harassing phone calls or pick at the business. If a neighbor did something he didn't like,
he would set up an elaborate scheme that took weeks of planning to get revenge on
them. And while he knew he couldn't take out his anger on the neighborhood children physically only because he
would get in trouble, >> that didn't stop him from enrolling his daughters in karate classes, not for
their own betterment. No, >> but so that he could direct them to assault the other children that lived
around them, >> which like if you take karate, you know, is the exact opposite of what they're
teaching you. >> They do an entire oath in the beginning that says that they will not use it for
that, >> right? >> So you're like and you're directing your children to be your little agents of
chaos >> to go beat children you don't like. >> To go beat children cuz you don't like
them. Like >> that's beyond. >> Well, and then you're making your children paras. you're continful,
toxic cycle. >> Things in his life took a serious downturn in 1982 when after 13 years of
employment, he was laid off from his job at the factory. >> Just about everyone who knew him has
acknowledged that this is where his life started really spiraling out of control
and he had done nothing to manage the stress. I mean, yeah, this is for sure where he spiraled. He was already
>> nothing good was coming out of this guy. Like that was he was not he was not killing it. No.
>> Now, rapidly running out of money and sensing her husband was on the verge of
a breakdown, Etna put the couple's property on the market and gently approached Jim about what to do, Jim was
too consumed with paranoia to be much of a help. And instead, he spent most of his time focused on his belief that the
factory closing was just evidence of a larger conspiracy to ruin him. And he was determined to get even with
everyone, telling one former coworker he was going to kill himself and quote, "Take everyone with him." Guys, you got
to call someone. >> Yeah. >> Like he is literally spelling it out for people around him. What is everyone
doing? >> That's the thing. >> Yeah. >> Is it's like he is like you just he is spelling it out. It's
>> all yelling there to everyone. >> Those paranoid delusions got even worse when a deal for both properties fell
through and Jim and Edna ended up selling their properties at a loss. To Jim, this was just further evidence of
the conspiracy. So, he sued his realtor. Now, when everything fell apart for them
in Ohio, Jim decided it was evidence of his long-standing belief that the entire
country was in fact on the verge of collapse. Rather than relocate to any other city or state, he picked up his
entire family in the spring of 1983 and moved them to Tijana. When they left Ohio, he really didn't bother to bring
much of their furniture or personal belongings. Instead, he just filled the car with his massive gun collection and
a stock a huge stock of ammunition. >> Those poor children. poor children >> to be uprooted from your already
insanely dark and chaotic life and then packed up in a car with a bunch of guns,
moved to Mexico >> where like you don't know anybody. >> They don't speak the language.
>> They don't speak the language any of the language >> and then your father is this terrifying
man who like nobody wants to be around. So you're even more isolated. >> Yeah. And it's getting worse and worse.
His delusions, his paranoia. So there's no shortage of, you know, irrational motives for moving the entire family to
Mexico in his mind. >> Of course, >> ultimately though, they only lasted three months before moving back to the
US. Cuz remember, he's also violently racist. Yeah. So, >> um, and they settled in the Santa Cro
neighborhood of San San Diego. Once they settled into their two-bedroom apartment, it didn't take long for the
old problems and bad habits to just crop right back up. Several neighbors recalled hearing Jim yelling at Etna,
the girls on multiple occasions. >> So sad. >> The one neighbor who lived next door
told a reporter he'd never heard the couple so much as argue. >> I think he just didn't want to get in.
>> I was like, "What?" >> While their new neighbors initially tried to be friendly and welcoming, they
became decidedly less friendly when Jim made his dislike of minorities known to everyone with an earshot. Reporter
Carlos Amesa said he was very anti-immigrant. He hated immigrants, especially Mexican immigrants. So that's
where we're sitting. >> You're a terrible person. And also, why move into immigrant communities if you
hate immigrants? Why are you infiltrating their safe space? >> You're infiltrating their place.
>> Like you can go I mean, you up and moved your family to Tijana, first of all,
when you're a racist piece of [ __ ] So like, make that make sense. >> And then you moved to Santa Cedro,
right? Santa. >> Yeah, Santa Cedro. >> That's a very well-known immigrant community, like Mexican community.
>> What are you doing? So go move somewhere where you'll you can spout your nastiness to other angry white people.
Like what do you >> or go [ __ ] yourself. >> Yeah. Or go [ __ ] yourself. >> But like why are you infiltrating their
community and talking [ __ ] about them, >> right? >> Like what the [ __ ] >> Jim never felt settled in California, if
he'd ever felt settled his entire life. >> Uh Edna said in his mind everything in
Ohio was done right and he could not adjust to the way things were done in California. So, he was unemployed,
surrounded by people he disliked because of his extreme racism, and the entire landscape was foreign to him. And in the
past, he probably wouldn't have had any trouble finding a job as a welder. But a
recent car accident had left him shaky, and that ruled out any work like that. >> And I'm sure it led to even greater
conspiracy. >> Exactly. Then one day, he saw a newspaper ad for a federally funded job
training program. It offered grants to low-income individuals interested in training to be a security guard. So, the
course was several weeks long, and Jim excelled at every aspect, especially the target shooting.
>> He did. That's >> Yeah, he was placed in the expert category. Once he'd finished the
training, he was granted a 2-year registration as a trained security guard in the state of California, and he set
about looking for work. In comparison to the training as a security guard, finding actual work was exponentially
harder for him. On paper, he was an ideal candidate, but as soon as he sat down in front of potential employers,
things would change quickly >> because he can't speak to people. >> Just a few days after completing the
training course, he got an interview with Bernstein Security Services. Owner Rudy Bernstein recalled, "He told me how
well he handled himself and how he would only work for top security firms, but he
was put off by his arrogance, bad attitude, and obvious lies." >> Yeah. After he left the interview,
Bernsteeen took measures to ensure that the candidate was not going to get the job. He wrote no in bold 4-in letters on
Jim's application and then traced over it again with a darker marker to make it clear.
>> Really making sure he took me out when I heard that. >> Jim did manage to find work with another
security firm nearby in Chula Vista, working the undesirable 8:00 p.m. to 2 a.m. shift.
>> That's pretty brutal. Uh this guy with lack of sleep is probably not a great mix either.
>> Well, just by himself out of post. >> And when he wasn't working, sleeping, or
ranting, he was shopping, buying new guns, gun parts, military uniforms, you know,
>> so scary. >> Despite their very limited income, Jim spent money freely. But whenever Etna
needed to spend money on essential items or something for their children, Jim would explode in anger. On one occasion,
when Enda told her husband one of the girls needed braces, he burst into the girl's bedroom, waving
around an Uzi. >> Oh my god. >> And shouted, "Why spend money on the girl's teeth? She'll be dead anyway."
>> Like, what the [ __ ] That's also just plainly telling your wife that you're going to kill.
>> I'm going to kill all of you. >> That's so [ __ ] scary. >> These poor [ __ ] kids.
>> Well, think of like how old you are when you get your first braces. You're a young teenager
>> and you're lit. Your dad is literally bursting into your room with an uzi shouting about how you're going to be
dead anyways. So, why do you need braces? >> I so hope that these girls are doing
okay now and like >> received the help they need because >> they >> their childhood was some of the worst I
can imagine. >> I can't even. >> Well, things at home were deteriorating fast. Things at work weren't going very
well for Jim either. His credentials and training made him a good candidate for the job. But his bosses at the security
company were like, "Yeah, I don't know if this guy can actually do the job because he's wild."
>> He also like might just shoot somebody because he wants to. >> He was edgy. He constantly seemed
paranoid and jumpy. His attitude was terrible. He was exploding at people. He was just being Jim Huberty, you know.
>> Yeah. Not somebody that you want on your property with a gun. >> No. On July 10th, 1984, he was fired
from the security job after his boss determined he was quote too nervous for the work. Although he reacted to his
firing about as well as anyone would expect, losing his job also seemed to be like a little bit of a wakeup call for
Jim. >> After his job loss, he started speaking a little more openly about his mental
health and wondering out loud whether he should seek help from a professional, which is what led him to place a call to
the mental health center on July 17th. Now, but when Jim didn't get the call back in a few hours, he became
irrationally angry and stormed out of the apartment. By that time, Etna had become frightened for Jim's safety and
the safety of others, and she started frantically calling mental health centers in the area, trying to locate
the one Jim had called that day. She intended to tell the receptionist that contrary to what he told them, he was in
fact seriously suicidal or dangerous, >> homicidal even, >> and hoping that would be enough to get
him an appointment immediately. Unfortunately, because the receptionist wrote his name down wrong, when Etna did
eventually land on the right mental health center, the person on the other end looked over the call log and told
her they hadn't had any calls from someone named Huberty, which almost like you didn't see Shuberty and say maybe
they wrote it down wrong. Like, come on. Come on, guys. Now, the next morning, July 18th, Jim and Etna were due in
traffic court related to just like a minor infraction. According to the clerk on duty that day, he was Jim was
pleasant and waited patiently until his name was called, never becoming agitated
or angry. >> Interesting. >> In fact, Jim even successfully managed to win the sympathy of the clerk, who,
feeling sorry that the Hubertes had to wait so long, cancelled the fine altogether.
>> Wow. After leaving the courthouse, Jim and Edna took the kids to the zoo where
they spent a few hours walking the paths looking at the animals. To Edna, Jim seemed uncharacteristically calm.
>> That's so scary. >> Yeah. But every now and then, he would make a comment that she said she found
disturbing. At one point, they stopped to watch the animals and app propose of nothing. Jim just said, "Well, society
had its chance." And then walked away. Oh my god, that would horrify me. Honestly, I don't even know like what
they would be able to do, but you have to call the police if your husband ever [ __ ] says that to you.
>> Like that's I suppose society had its chance. >> Like I don't even know. That's so scary.
>> And the fact that he was weirdly calm. >> That must have been really scary for his
family. >> Sad that they couldn't even actually enjoy the fact that he was calm and they
>> cuz they were probably, what does this mean? >> Yeah. The family arrived home in the early
afternoon and Edna made lunch for the girls. And when she finished cleaning up the kitchen, she went into the bedroom
to lay down for a little while. A few minutes later, Jim entered the bedroom wearing a full camouflage outfit and
carrying a large bundle wrapped in a black and white checkered outfit and he said, "I want to kiss you goodbye."
>> Oh god. >> When he stood up to leave the room, Edna asked where he was going and he replied,
"I'm going hunting. I'm going hunting people. [sighs and gasps] Did she call someone?
We can move forward. Okay. From the balcony of the apartment, one of their daughters watched as her father
loaded this bundle into the car, then pulled out the parking lot, drove the 200 or so yards down the street where he
pulled into the parking lot of the post office just across from the McDonald's. This was only 200 yards away from his
house. >> They could see it probably. The restaurant was very popular in the neighborhood and was a place parents
frequently bought their children to play. So that afternoon, there were about 50 people inside.
It was about 400 p.m. when John Arnold clocked in for his shift at McDonald's. He was standing at the register, but he
didn't see Jim Huberty come through the door. All he remembers was hearing his coworker, Guiermo Flores, yell, "Hey,
John, that guy's going to shoot you." >> Oh my god. >> Arnold turned around and saw Huberty
pointing a shotgun in his direction. He said he was pointing that gun right at me. He pulled the trigger, but nothing
happened. Then he brought it down and started messing with it. When Jim lowered the gun, John relaxed a little,
thinking like, "Was this just a prank? Like, what is this?" >> But it wasn't. The guy the gun had just
jammed. He already fiddled with the shotgun briefly before finally clearing the jam and firing it into the ceiling.
The noise got everyone's attention, which is when Jim pulled out his 9mm semi-automatic Uzi from the bundle he
was carrying and fired at 22-year-old manager Neva Kain, hitting her several times before she dropped to the ground.
>> Oh my god. >> Employee Albert Leo said, "I saw him come in and tell everyone to get to the
floor. Then he just started shooting at everyone. The people who tried to get out to run out of the McDonald's, he
started shooting at them." Waving his gun around furiously, he shouted, "I'm going to kill you all." He
then referred to everyone in the restaurant as dirty swine, telling them he'd killed many in Vietnam and he was
going to kill a thousand more. >> Jesus. >> He had not served in Vietnam. >> Yeah.
>> He tried to enlist but was deemed unfit for service. I wonder why. >> But in that moment, none of that
matters. >> No. After killing Neva Kain, Huberty turned and began firing through the
windows at the people across the street at the doughnut shop. 12-year-old Joshua Coleman and his
friends David Flores and Omar Hernandez had gone to the shop to get ice cream that afternoon and were walking out just
as he started shooting in their direction. Flores was killed immediately, walking out with his ice
cream. >> A 12-year-old with his friends. >> Yeah. Omar Hernandez was shot multiple
times and ended up dying on the ground. Joshua Coleman was hit in the chest, knocking him to the ground. Coleman was
panicked and terrified that if he moved, the shooter would realize he was still alive and fire at him again. So, he
stayed completely still, struggling to breathe. He was shot in the chest. He later said, "I needed air, and I
couldn't get enough. I had to take short, quick breaths." >> "Oh, God." Inside the McDonald's, Jim turned his
gun on the families in the play area, firing indiscriminately into the crowd of as parents just grabbed their
children and huddled under the stone tables. >> This is nightmare is not even the
correct word. >> Keith Thomas later recalled, "We got under the table and I got shot in both
arms." He was a kid. >> Oh my god. That afternoon, Keith had gone out to a late lunch with his best
friend, Matteo Herrera, and Matteo's father, Ronald. With the two boys squeezed beneath the
table, Ronald, the father, shielded them both with his own body. But in the end,
it wasn't enough. Matteo was shot and killed, and Keith was shot seven times. >> Oh my god.
>> But Keith credits Ronald with saving his life that day. >> Seven times. >> And that's like his best friend's father
saved him with his own. The thing the heroes that come out of these stories. >> Oh, it like shatters your heart.
>> People that literally shield others with their own. >> No one should have to do this.
>> No, it's there should not be such thing as a human shield. >> No. >> The first call came into San Diego 911 a
few minutes after the shooting started when someone dragged one of the victims, a young girl, off the sidewalk and into
the post office across the street. Officer Miguel Rosario said, "The call came in, if I can remember, as some type
of disturbance where a little girl had been shot. I had no clue what I was about to enter into. God,
>> the communication here is awful." >> From start to finish in [clears throat] this story,
>> at that time, there were two McDonald's restaurants in Santa Cro, >> one on the west side and one on the east
side. >> Oh [clears throat] no. >> Because there was some confusion around where the incident was taking place,
Rosario was dispatched to the wrong location. >> Oh my god. and didn't receive the
correction until he was about a block away from the east side McDonald's. As a result, emergency services were delayed
by anywhere between 3 and 5 minutes as the officer had to backtrack and make his way to the right location.
>> 3 and 5 minutes is huge eternity. >> Huge. Oh my god. >> Inside the restaurant, everything was
chaos. The alarms, this is for some reason this detail sent me. The alarms on the fryers and other heating elements
were all going off because the food was getting burned >> because it's it's just madness.
>> So now people are crying, screaming, and moaning in pain. And there's frier alarms going off and like other heating
element things just being like like just crazy. And then on top of that, whatever wasn't
being drowned out by the alarms was covered up over are You ready? the pop music blurring out of the portable
stereo that Huberty had brought with him. >> No. >> Every now and then he would fiddle with
the radio, changing the station to find a song he liked, and then he would start
firing wildly across the restaurant again. >> Oh my god, I never got to that detail.
>> No, >> I thought you were going to say the pop music like over the speakers. >> No, he brought his own
>> and would change it to a change when he didn't like a song. >> That just made me like physically ill.
Like that is beyond evil. An outside local reporter Carlos Amesa happened to be coming out of the post office when
the shooting started, making him the first reporter on the scene. >> "Oh my god,"
>> he said later. Before I could even realize it, I heard the whistles of shots going by my head. I hit the ground
so hard that I thought I'd been shot because I had blood on my face and hands. I'd actually hit my nose on the
pavement. >> Oh my gosh. As Carlos scrambled for cover behind the cars, Miguel uh Miguel
Rosarios finally arrived, pulling his patrol car into the parking lot of the post office. And remember, he was the
one that was sent to the wrong location >> and it's just him. >> At that point, Rosario still hadn't been
informed of exactly what was going on. So, he thought it might have been a robbery or other public disturbance. He
later said, "Walking to the post office is when I first realized something was very wrong. People were hiding behind
cars. They were looking towards the McDonald's." So he looked in the direction of the restaurant just in time
to see Jim Huberty raise the Uzi in his direction and fire. >> Oh my god. >> He was able to dive behind a truck to
avoid being hit. The cover gave him just enough time to radio for backup and tell
them, "Hey, >> get here now. >> Get the [ __ ] over here." >> To the correct McDonald's.
>> His call went out at 4:10 p.m. 10 minutes into the assault. And you have to think about 10 minutes. Literally,
honestly, set a [ __ ] timer for 10 minutes for 10 minutes. >> That is such a long time in this kind of
situation >> because you [clears throat] hear 10 minutes and you go 10 minutes. Like, oh,
I'll be there in 10 minutes. It's no big deal. Like, that sounds like whatever. Sit for 10 minutes.
>> 10 minutes. I set a timer at night for my mouthwash for 1 minute. >> 1 minute is so long. Like, it's crazy.
>> I set a timer for 2 minutes every time the girls brush their teeth. And even I'm like, "Oh my god, 2 minutes. Were
you supposed to be brushing [laughter] for this long? That's a long time. So 10 minutes in this 10 minutes sitting there
is a long time. 10 minutes in this kind of absolute nightmare scenario. >> And this man has got I don't even know
how many guns you said. >> Yeah. >> And how much ammunition? It's like he knows how to make his own ammunition. So
it probably is >> probably hundreds. He was able to get off hundreds of rounds. [sighs]
>> Hundreds of rounds. And a McDonald's where families went to play with their kids. And he knew that.
>> I so wish that >> in a in a strange way cuz we already know. I wish that he hadn't been killed.
And I wish that he was sitting in prison to this day. >> I do too. Just rotting.
>> Tortured. >> Yeah. Now later after everyone had learned the full details of the
massacre, several people did question why no one inside the restaurant, which I'm like, guys, like I this that makes
me crazy. People were questioning why no one in the restaurant had done anything
to try to stop him. >> What are you going to do? He has a million guns. >> And that's the thing because they're all
like, "Well, any attempt would have been better than nothing." >> You're going to get killed.
>> Exactly. And Albert Leos, somebody who was there, which it's like, "How about
we listen to the people that were experiencing it, right? >> Because we can all sit here on our ass
in our comfy safe home and be like, "Why didn't you try to bum rush him? Why didn't you try to do that? You don't
know what the [ __ ] you would do. You don't know what your flight fight or flight is going to do in that moment.
You weren't in there watching kids get shot and parents trying to save their kids and like
>> So many people don't realize that a lot of people's fight orflight response is
freeze. >> Exactly. And it's not anyone's fault. >> No, it's just what your body does.
>> Biology. It's just the way it is. >> But Albert Leo said there was just no way. When you have someone who's armed
the way he was, it's not like in the movies where someone can jump on him. There's just no way.
>> No. like semi-automatic and and automatic rifles like >> well and Jim Huberty had come prepared
that afternoon. He carried an Uzi semi-automatic uh which also an automatic or a
semi-automatic you're not getting a moment between these shots. Like he's able to just mow down.
>> It's like Call of Duty like something out of a horrible horrible action flick and it's like
>> isn't it what they do they use that in wars those in Wars? >> I have no idea. I'm not even going to
try. It's like, but they use that for like mass carnage. >> Any kind of like automatic weapon is
horrifying. Like it just is for like, you know, but so he was carrying an Uzi semi-automatic, a 9mm handgun, and a
Remington pump-action shotgun. >> Whenever one gun ran out of bullets, he would simply pull another out and start
firing again. >> And you also have to think he's an expert. Like he's so >> he's a gun. He can reload quick. He can
fix jams. cuz I'm sure so many people like would take this moment to say or back then like, "Oh, he took a minute to
reload." >> He probably It was probably seconds. >> Yeah. He's done this his whole life.
It's the only thing he's been obsessed with. >> And no, again, no one knew how long they
might have between breaks when he would stop to reload. So, no one wanted to take the chance to go rush at him and
start another shooting spree. >> Yeah, you could get yourself killed. >> Also, you're not even getting yourself
killed. And I'm sure these people are thinking this. He's not shooting one shot at a time. It's not just going to
be you going down. You standing up and rushing at him could take out everyone around you.
>> And so they're probably thinking in that scenario like is it worth me getting up
and having him mow down a whole group of kids behind me? >> That's the thing. There's kids
everywhere in this. >> This is awful. It's an awful situation. I can't imagine being in it. Now, once
crime scene technicians had processed the scene later, they determined that Huberty had managed to fire, like I
said, hundreds of rounds in all directions. And when he wasn't blindly firing, ranting, or listening to music,
he would walk through the restaurant shooting people, several of whom were already dead, just shooting them more.
>> And when the noise became too much, he would shout at everyone, demanding that
parents keep their children quiet because they were making him anxious. >> What? Like, how do you expect anybody to
calm their child in this situation? What the [ __ ] dude? Maria Riveria was one of
those parents hiding under the tables trying to keep her children quiet. She told them the bullets were just little
pieces of ice flying out of the broken ice machine, but she didn't think that they believed her.
>> No. >> She later said, "He came to our table and kicked me and I had to pretend I was
dead." >> Oh my god. >> He thought we were dead because there was a lot of blood around us. In the
end, Maria's arm was grazed by a bullet and one of her daughters was shot in the
leg, but all three did survive. And also in that like that is such a [ __ ] mom right there in that
situation to come up with something even remotely comforting instead of like this
man is killing everybody around us. >> It's the ice machine like >> props to that mom
>> that's being a mom >> that's next level. >> Now after about are you ready? 40
minutes >> of terror. >> Truly is shocking that almost an hour. >> It's shocking that anybody made it out
of this alive. >> Yeah. Some people decided to try to make a run for the emergency exit, hoping
that they could reach the door before he spotted them. [snorts] Cashier Wendy Flanigan recalled the girl that was at
the cash register with me, Maggie. She saw that I was not running and she went behind me and she was pushing me the
whole way as I ran. I imagined I was running through rain, she said. I felt like I was running through rain and I
heard bing bing bing because I believed now he was shooting with the machine gun.
>> Oh my god. and he was shooting at us and the bullets were ricocheting all over.
>> And when Maggie And then Maggie got really heavy and she was keeping me from running. So she slipped from my arm and
I ran down the stairs into a closet and she never came >> like oh think these are like young girls working
these registers. Wendy managed to reach the emergency exit on her own, but when she hit the door, she discovered it had
been locked by the management, who feared the employees might steal food if they had an unmonitored exit.
>> You got to be [ __ ] kidding me. >> I hope some [ __ ] came out of this. >> You got to be [ __ ] kidding me.
>> So, thinking fast, Wendy turned and ran through the door that led to a small supply room at the bottom of a short
flight of stairs where several others were also hiding. >> Okay. Outside the supply room, they
could hear their coworker, Albert Leos, get shot five or six times, including two serious wounds in his arm and leg.
Huberty only stopped shooting Leos when he ran out of ammunition and had to return to the counter where he'd left
his supply. In that moment, Leos used the opportunity to drag himself to the supply room door. And then he dragged
himself down the flight of stairs where the other people were hiding. Despite how seriously he was injured, he knew if
he made any noise, he was going to give away their position. So, he bit down on a rolled up rag and used shoelaces as
tourniquets on his arms and legs. Wow. Now, having spent nearly an hour trapped in the restaurant with this absolute
maniac, the remaining survivors couldn't understand why after having shot through
the windows and killing people outside on the street, the police hadn't shown up to stop him.
>> Like, where are they? This must have been like cuz sitting there and having this happen for so long, you're like
where are they? Like where are the people that are supposed to save us? Like I don't understand this. Throughout
the late 1970s and early 80s, Americans had watched their local police departments become much more militarized
as well and heavily armed with militaryra weapons supposedly to prevent or stop incidents like this. Yes.
>> And yet there they were trapped inside with puberty and there was no sign of law enforcement to be seen at least as
far as they knew. >> Right. >> In reality though, which this is the reality, there was a heavy presence
outside police presence, but their attempts to intervene kept getting hindered by several factors. For one
thing, the windows were covered with a tinted film, making it difficult for anyone outside to see in.
>> Oh man. That visibility was further hampered by the fact that after Huberty fired through the windows, the double
paneed glass didn't shatter. It just cracked into like a spiderweb pattern, making [clears throat] it almost
impossible to see inside. [snorts] >> Also challenging was their physical location.
>> Although it surely wasn't planned that way. The McDonald's was all glass on three sides and Huberty could see
through all of them, >> right? So, anytime one of the officers tried to get close to the building, he
would see them and unleash a torrent of semi-automatic gunfire at them. This not
only put the responding officers at risk, but everyone else who was still pinned down outside the restaurant when
the shooting started. >> Yeah. >> Eventually, the SDPD called in fire trucks to position around the perimeter
to block the pedestrians. This allowed them to remove the wounded from the scene, but the trucks like outside the
scene, but trucks took heavy damage cuz he was just firing into them. >> Yeah. >> And at least one fireman was shot in the
process. >> Now, after an hour, the San Diego Police SWAT team had arrived at the scene. And
I was like, >> an hour? >> An hour. >> You brought the SWAT team in after an hour.
>> The SWAT team should be called should have been called immediately. They took
up their positions with sniper Chuck Foster at top the room of the post office across the restaurant, the roof,
excuse me, of the post office. Um, he later said, "I got up on top of the room along with my spotter Barry Bennett at
about 5:02 p.m." I was like, "Um, what?" Cuz this all started around 42 p.m. >> He said, "Once I got up onto the post
office roof, I could look down upon the McDonald's. I could see a few bodies lying inside the restaurant. I could see
a few times when the shooter was firing out towards the street, towards the fire
trucks, the shooter within the McDonald's had a lot of advantages where he was at.
>> Yeah. >> As soon as he was in position on the roof, Foster had the same problems that
the officer on the ground had. The windows were both tinted, heavily cracked, he just couldn't see anything.
Under those conditions, there was a high likelihood that if he took a shot, Foster could have missed or hit one of
the people inside. Yeah. >> Also, the officers outside the restaurant knew very little about what
was actually happening inside the restaurant. And they thought that if there was more than one shooter, which
they thought there was considering how many shots were being fired, they said taking one out might prompt the other
one to kill everyone else inside cuz they also didn't know if this was like a hostage situation. And they were like,
>> "If we kill one, that might negate any hope that we have of getting anyone else
out." >> Right? This is an impossible situation. >> It is. Now, after about 15 more minutes
of holding in position, Chuck Foster finally saw Huberty walk to the front of the restaurant and hop up on the
counter. From his position, it looked like Jim was reloading his guns, but Foster could only see him from the waist
down and didn't have a clear shot. He later said it was impossible to see inside the McDonald's through those
windows. I didn't get a chance to see him at all until just before shooting him.
>> Wow. >> The only reason I could see inside was because his gunshots shattered a double
door of safety glass. Chuck saw Huberty get off the counter and take a few steps towards the front
doors, which had been blown out entirely. Worried that he might not get another chance, he drew in a deep
breath. And as soon as Jim appeared through the broken glass of the front door, he fired a single shot that ripped
right through Hubert's heart, killing him instantly. Wow. At 5:17 p.m., after a full 77 minutes of carnage and
complete terror, the massacre inside the Santa Cedro McDonald's had finally come
to an end. >> 77 minutes. >> 77 minutes. >> That has to be one of the longest shootings.
>> I can't imagine this. In that time, Jim Huberty had murdered 21 people, many of them children,
[sighs and gasps] and injured nearly two dozen others. And those who managed to survive this whole thing, having escaped
with their lives, would suffer from profound post-traumatic stress disorder. >> Absolutely. Decades,
>> probably for the rest of their lives. >> Oh, I can't even imagine. >> And also, there are children suffering
PTSD from this, like who are going to have to grow up with this. Like truly, >> that's why like this time of year when I
think about like fireworks and that kind of thing and just >> obviously like it's a a thing that
happens, but I just feel for people who are triggered by that because that has got to send you
>> into such a catastrophic state. >> That sound. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's I can't imagine surviving
this and then hearing fireworks >> and hearing fireworks. Especially when like I think it's so annoying and I
don't care how I come off. I feel ex I know exactly what you're going to say and I feel the same way.
>> After the 4th of July, cut the [ __ ] >> All done. >> Cut the [ __ ] When people start doing
them on random week nights at like 11 p.m. >> You're an [ __ ] >> You're an [ __ ] And that's just how I
feel. >> Literally care. >> I'm like that. I just think you're an [ __ ] if you do that.
>> Like truly. And especially when people start it weeks earlier or they do it for
weeks after 4th of July. Like get it together. There's a designated day. Yeah. >> And you do I realize the world is not
like fully, you know, a safe space for everyone and can't cater to everyone's, you know, triggers or whatever the hell
anybody wants to say. But there are certain things we can do that are just really easy to do and it's like
>> do your fireworks on the 4th of July. >> Come on. Honestly, you just don't need
to do them. >> Think about this this year. Like [laughter] this year Yeah. Just think
about this and thinking about somebody who lived through this and then 2 weeks after 4th of July someone decides to out
of [ __ ] nowhere in the middle of the night shoot off fireworks a couple houses down.
>> Not only >> and what that would do to someone >> because also you have to think of how
many people at this point in life and where we are have lived through this. >> So way more people have lived through
this and like you really do need to take that into consideration. into consideration,
>> which I feel like a lot of >> It's worth It's worth saying. >> I feel like a lot of our listeners are
just >> I know I'm sure we pissed off a couple people. >> I'm sure we got a couple people that are
pissed off, but honestly, it's just it's just the way it is. But I think most of
our listeners right now, I think you guys listening are the kind of people that are considerate and think of those
things and also don't do that stuff. I'm sure you know you're always gonna get people, but just if you are one of those
people that loves to shoot off fireworks a few weeks after the Fourth of July, just think about this.
>> Yeah. Think take a second guess. >> Just think if you decide to do it anyway, that's that's on you, but like
think >> if you decide to do it anyway, that kind of sucks. [laughter] And like I feel
like we're not as close as I thought we were, [snorts] but >> like let's be friends and just all agree
not to do that. >> Yeah. Now, once Huberty was dead, the survivors came running out of the
building in all directions. Not towards police or any other members of law enforcement, just away from the [ __ ]
building as fast as they could. >> It was only after they'd managed to wrangle the survivors and get the
wounded to the hospital that the STBD finally started to understand the scope of what happened here. Cuz remember,
they still don't know what the [ __ ] was going on. >> They're like, "Is there still a
hostage?" Miguel Rosario recalled, "Nobody knew that this guy was in there by himself and just arbitrarily shooting
people." >> Cuz why would your mind even think that? >> Well, and especially at this time.
>> Exactly. It wasn't >> from outside the restaurant. All they knew was that someone was shooting
inside. So, they naturally thought it was a robbery or a hostage situation. And that was really the most shocking
element of the story. Although they've become obviously tragically common now, which is horrific and shame on all of us
for it. >> In 1984, mass shootings were exceedingly rare. So much so, in fact, that law
enforcement didn't recognize it when it happened in Santa Cro. Jim Huberty hadn't gone to McDonald's to rob anyone
or make some kind of political statement, even by taking hostages. He'd gone there for the sole purpose of
killing as many people as humanly possible before being taken out by the police. And he did exactly that.
>> He sure did. >> Police officers and crime scene technicians worked through the night to
process the scene and identify the bodies. According to the coroner, 13 of the victims died immediately upon being
shot, while the rest likely died within a few minutes of being struck down. Because so many of the victims were
children and didn't have identification on them. Staff members from the coroner's office were forced to use
photographs of the victims from the shoulders up. >> Oh my god. >> To show the mass of people who'd
assembled outside the office looking for their loved ones. By the following day,
they'd managed to identify all of the victims. I'm going to read them out. Elsa Herinda Borboa Fiero was 19. Neva
Denise Kaine was 22. Michelle Deianne Karncross was 18. Maria Elena Cole Monero Silva was 19. Gloria Lopez
Gonzalez, 22. Ble Reagan Herrera, 31. Matteo Herrera, 11. Pauline Aino Lopez, 21. Margarita Padilla, 18. Claudia
Perez, nine. >> Nine. >> Ada Velasquez Victoria was 69. Jose Ruben Lozano Perez was 19. Carlos Reyes
was 8 months. >> Oh my god. >> Jackie Lyn Wright Reyes was 18. Victor Maxmillian Rivera was 25. Ariseli Vuelas
Vargas was 31. Hugo Lewis Velasquez, excuse me, was 45. Lawrence Herman Verslus was 62. David Flores Delgado was
11. Omar Alonzo Hernandez was 11. And Miguel Victoria Ouyoa was 74 years old. such like a vast
>> range of ages there. Like people >> 8 months to 74. >> 8 months. Like literally just starting
your [ __ ] time on this earth >> and like 69 and 74 and you make it that long in your life and this [ __ ]
>> is the one that ends your life. >> Yeah. >> Like that's just so cruel. >> And to be looking at people crying and
begging for their lives and just indiscriminately shoot them. seeing parents trying to shield their crying
children and shoot them. Anyways, >> you're shooting babies. >> You're shooting 11 and 12y olds. You're
shooting parents. >> Jim Huberty had nothing inside of him. >> He was an empty vessel.
>> Like truly an empty vessel. Like he was just nothing would have made him stop.
It really wouldn't. >> When the news broke, it shocked everyone from one end of the country to the
other. Um although it was it has unfortunately been surpassed in number by others since at the time the Santa
massacre was the worst mass shooting in American history and most people found it impossible to understand how such a
thing could happen which >> I wish we could say now >> that that's the same thing that happens
now that everyone can't imagine this happening. >> Um however those who knew Jim Huberty
weren't nearly as surprised. A former neighbor told a reporter, "He came across to me as cold. He looked like
your average guy, except for his facial expressions. I never saw a smile on him."
>> Now, another person who wasn't entirely surprised by the shooting was Jim's wife, Edna.
>> I wonder if they like heard it from their apartment. >> That's what I wonder.
>> They had to have. Yeah. But while being very well aware of Jim's long struggle
with his poor mental health, his inability to manage his rage, and the full extent of his decomposition in the
day before the accident, Edna would go on to unsuccessfully sue the McDonald's Corporation a few years later.
>> You got to be [ __ ] kidding me. alleging that quote, "No, >> her deceased husband had been consuming
copious amounts of McDonald's chicken nuggets in the days, weeks, and months leading up to the shooting."
>> To blame this atrocity >> on chicken nuggets >> on overconumption of chicken nuggets
>> when you know >> is diabolical. >> And especially, >> you know who that man was.
>> You know right well who that man was. >> Always been that way. copious amounts of
chicken nuggets or not. >> Yeah, >> that's all that's all I'm going to say. >> We've already given you like how we feel
about like Edna not leaving or whatever. Like we've said >> we've sympathized. >> We've sympathized and I will continue to
sympathize and empathize with her. >> Not on this >> on this. No. No, babe. I'm not
empathizing with you. You're not blaming it on chicken nuggets. You're going to have to You're going to have to excuse
me on this one. I'm not empathizing with the chicken nuggets. I can't imagine being a surviving victim or the vict the
victim of a the family member of a victim and hearing that this woman blamed it on chicken nuggets
>> saying that chicken nuggets made him do this. No, >> you have to be [ __ ] kidding me.
>> She said that it contributed to his disordered mind. >> It didn't. >> He was already there. He had already
said a million times to a million different people that he was going to kill a lot of people.
>> He had been that way from childhood. >> And that is no fault of hers. But don't
blame it on chicken nuggets. >> That's wild. >> Because that really trivializes it.
>> It really does. >> And it makes it not his fault suddenly. >> Yep. >> And that's wild to do.
>> It absolutely is. >> Now, while most people wondered what had caused him to go on such a shocking
rampage, the public was equally frustrated with local law enforcement. And everyone wanted to know why and how
he was able to continue killing people for well over an hour before police intervened.
>> That was a long time. >> 77 minutes. And for them to only get SWAT there like an hour late, that's
>> that I don't get either. I'll never understand that. To throw a a sniper on a roof an hour later.
>> No. >> What are you doing? >> Like what are you doing? >> He could have been stopped earlier.
>> In truth, it seems there were several important factors that obviously did definitely hindered them from getting to
him sooner. But the initial error in dispatching and the presence of a single officer to a to the heavy tinting on the
gr on the glass like to the spidering on the glass like all these things contributed to this allowing being
allowed to go on for far too long. >> Mhm. >> But still the event did go on to influence police procedure with regards
to incidents of mass shootings and other acts of terrorism. changing everything from the language used in communication
between agencies because no one labeled this a mass shooting at first >> to the surveillance tools used and even
the scale and scope of weapons carried by all officers. >> Now, in the wake of the massacre, the
community struggled over what to do with the building. >> I know >> some wanted it torn down completely
while others thought it should remain. In the end, the building was demolished and a permanent memorial was installed
in 1990. I think this was the best thing to do. I think that's what I would have
preferred too. >> The memorial consists of 21 hexagonal white marble pillars, each bearing the
name of a victim. In his statement to the press at the unveiling of the memorial, designer Roberto Valdez said,
"The 21 hexagons represent each person that died, and they are different heights representing the v variety of
ages and races of the people involved in the massacre. They are bonded together in the hopes that the community in a
tragedy like this will stick together like they did." Wow, that's really beautiful. I That gave me chills.
>> Yeah, I think that was the best thing they could have done for that location and what that was.
>> I mean, what can you do other than that? >> Yeah, it's it's a horrific story.
>> It is. >> But again, I think it's one that needs to be told. One, to make sure those
people are remembered. >> Yep. and two to really hammer in that mental health care and treatment
for mental health is we can't ever get too good with it, man. And we're nowhere near improving.
>> We're nowhere near it. So, it's like we need to keep improving. And also, people
need to say [ __ ] when people are saying stuff. [snorts] I know it's hard sometimes.
I realize that people are like, I don't want to sound like a crazy person calling and say this. I don't want to
get somebody's life ruined. I don't want to do this. Like I get >> when people are saying the things that
Jim Huberty is saying, there's no such thing as overreacting to some of those things.
>> Anonymously just anonymously say, "Hey, I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know if he was serious,
but he said this really concerning thing." >> Yeah, >> you could be saving a lot of people.
>> You absolutely could. >> If you ever get a chance to, please do that. >> Please do. Honestly. All right. I am
>> We need a fun We need the funnest effect. >> I'm really looking for a good one. Wow.
This one, I don't know if I would call it fun, but it's something. >> People once used corn cobs instead of
toilet paper because they were soft, easy to hold, and there were a lot of them. [laughter]
>> I love the fact there were a lot of them. >> There were a lot of them. >> There was so much cone.
>> Just [laughter] cone. You could use it to wipe your butt. It has the juice. [laughter]
>> I have to go now. >> That's crazy. >> I have to go now. >> That is a pretty fun fact.
>> I have never heard that in my life and I'm not quite sure if I'm better for it.
>> I feel like we're all better for it to be honest. >> That's a crazy one. >> I think we are.
>> All right, guys. Be kind to each other. >> Think about fireworks this year. >> Yeah.
>> And if somebody says something to you that is so dark and chilling that it rots you to your core, tell someone.
>> [laughter] >> That's a great way of explaining that >> and we hope you keep listening
>> and we hope you >> keep it weird >> weird but not so weird that you get rotted to your core and you don't say
anything. >> Yeah. >> Bye >> bye. [music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
[music] [music]

On the afternoon of July 18, 1984, James Huberty left his apartment in the San Ysidro neighborhood of San Diego, California, and drove one block over to the nearby McDonalds. After walking through the door of the restaurant, Huberty raised his Uzi semi-automatic 9mm and began indiscriminately shooting at patrons, employees, and anyone else who happened to cross into his line of sight.

At the time, and for decades after, the San Ysidro McDonalds massacre was the worst mass shooting in American history, with the shooter killing twenty-one people and injuring nearly two dozen others before being struck down by a sniper’s bullet. The incident lasted over an hour, during which time San Diego police and SWAT members surrounded the building, but didn’t enter the building until an hour after the shooting started, when Huberty was already dead.

Ben-Ali, Russell. 1990. "After a long wait, monument is dedicated at Massacre site." Los Angeles Times, December 14.

Corwin, Miles, and Tom Howlett. 1984. "Neighbors reall a man who never smiled." Los Angeles Times, July 19: 14.

Crea, Jackie. 2025. Survivors remember San Ysidro McDonald's mass shooting. July 18. Accessed August 6, 2025. https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/san-ysidro-mcdonalds-mass-shooting-40-years-later/3569489/.

Cummings, Judith. 1984. "Neighbors term mass slayer a quiet but hotheaded loner." New York Times, July 20: 1.

Freed, David. 1984. "21 die in San Diego massacre." Los Angeles Times, July 19: 1.

Logan, Alan C., Jeffrey J. Nicholson, Stephen J. Schoenthaler, and Susan L. Prescott. 2024. "Neurolaw: Revisiting Huberty v. McDonald’s through the Lens of Nutritional Criminology and Food Crime." Laws.

2016. 77 Minutes. Directed by Charlie Minn.

New York Times. 1984. "Coast man kills 20 in rampage at a restaurant." New York Times, July 19: 1.

Time-Life Books. 1993. Mass Murderers. Alexandria, VA: Time-Life Books.

Weintraub, Daniel. 1984. "'That guy's gonna shoot you'." Los Angeles Times, July 20: 2.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from https://www.purple-planet.com Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

Ash and Elena discuss the San Cedro McDonald's massacre, Jim Huberty's mental health, and the importance of recognizing warning signs in violent individuals.

Key points

Birthday Sale Announcement. It's Ash's birthday, and there's a special sale on merch!
Mental Health Awareness Month. The discussion touches on mental health awareness in the context of the case.
Jim's Explosive Anger. Jim Huberty's anger issues escalated from childhood into adulthood, affecting his relationships and family life.
A Dangerous Obsession. Jim's obsession with guns became increasingly alarming, with firearms accessible throughout his home.
Mental Health Crisis. Jim's mental health deteriorated, leading to paranoia and violent thoughts as he faced life challenges.
A Move to Mexico. In a desperate bid for control, Jim uprooted his family to Mexico, taking his gun collection with him.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is rough and it's scary and it's horrific.

5:05WatchJun 10, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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