Eight Years | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

Phoebe Judge: This episode contains language that may not be suitable for everyone. Please use discretion. I'm going to be very... I don't even
know how to say this to someone like you [Melissa laughs], to admit that I have
never read a Harry Potter book. Melissa Anelli: Oh, that's OK. [Upbeat pop-style instrumentals.] Phoebe Judge: So will you
start by just telling me what your life was like in 2008 before this all started?
Melissa Anelli: Sure. In 2008, we were just a year past the publication of the last book,
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, and that was a huge moment for everyone. And I
was running the website. We had a really large team and it was a really heavy time still,
even a year after the last Harry Potter book, it was still kind of crazy. Phoebe Judge: This is Melissa Anelli. Since 2001, she's run a Harry Potter fan site
called The Leaky Cauldron, which provides news on the books and Harry Potter movies,
and where hundreds of thousands of fans share theories and predictions about what will happen to
the characters and what they hope will come next. Melissa also has a podcast. It was one of the
earliest podcasts out there, called PotterCast. [Montage.] Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome to another... Speaker 2:
The official podcast of The Leaky Cauldron. Speaker 3: The Leaky Cauldron. Speaker 4: The Leaky Cauldron. Melissa Anelli: It is PotterCast 204.
Once again, I'm Melissa. I'm here with John, Frak, and Sue. We've got another week of
Potter fantastic... [Fades out.] Phoebe Judge: And because the fans, there were so many fans, I mean, from what I understand,
this is a gigantic fan site. It must've felt, though, that this was really good,
that you could take something that people really enjoyed and liked and this world
that had been created, and you could create this place where there could be conversation
and information and expand on something. Melissa Anelli: And that it could actually
be a job. It was glorious. There was nothing better than watching the fans just enjoying
a book and creating fan art and valuable discussions and friendships and creating
communities and fan conventions. Now it's a commonplace thing, but back then we were the
first people doing it. It was really exciting. Phoebe Judge: Melissa was able to visit the sets
of the Harry Potter movies. She had sit-down interviews with J.K. Rowling and in 2008,
Melissa published a book, Harry, A History: The True Story of a Boy Wizard, His Fans,
and Life Inside the Harry Potter Phenomenon. J.K. Rowling wrote the foreword and the book debuted at
number 18 on the New York Times bestseller list. Melissa Anelli: I would speak a lot about Harry
Potter. I would be interviewed a lot about Harry Potter. I'd interviewed J.K. Rowling a bunch of
times. She had been on our podcast. The podcasts themselves made us a little bit of celebrity,
you know? And, yeah, I got a lot of attention. Phoebe Judge: And then one day Melissa's
colleagues told her they were having trouble with one of The Leaky Cauldron commenters. This person wanted Melissa to read a piece of fiction they'd written
and was growing increasingly angry when no one was paying attention. Finally, Melissa herself intervened. She says she sent a polite email saying, "Please cooperate with
the rules and respect the moderators." That seemed to work out. Melissa received an apology email
almost immediately. This was July 17th, 2008. Melissa Anelli: And I went to bed,
and then the 18th, I woke up and I got an email the next day that said, "I'm going to
hunt you down wherever you live and slit you ear to ear like the stupid, fat sow you are."
That's literally what the next email was. And it was so alarming. Phoebe Judge:
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. [Driving electronic music.] Melissa sent the email to her colleagues at The Leaky Cauldron, and they banned the user from the
site. They hoped that would be the end of it. Yes, it was a horribly graphic threat, but the truth
is a lot of women who've made their careers online are constantly bombarded by cruel and
often sexual messages. Melissa and her colleagues started gathering more information about the user.
And they were able to determine that the person harassing her was 25 years old and lived in New
Zealand. Her name was Jessica Parker. Melissa Anelli: I really thought it'd be a one-off. I was like, "Well, this person is a little bit off."
She was angry that I threatened to ban her. OK. She can take her business elsewhere.
Phoebe Judge: And then they realized that the piece of fiction Jessica Parker wanted
read so badly was about Melissa — an odd, violent, sexual story. Is it surprising to you that she's a woman? Melissa Anelli: It was at the beginning.
I think I got a lot of that, "Oh my God, it's a woman?" But none of this can be like... You can't
be like, "Oh, well she was so attracted to you or whatever." It's not that. And I think people are
surprised by that the most. Stalkers it's usually like, "I can't have her." And this is not quite,
I don't know — I don't know what this is. There's just no logic to it. Phoebe Judge: A 2014 Pew research study found that 40% of Americans have been
harassed online. And that harassment is disproportionately aimed at women. But it's less common for a woman to stalk another woman. The Centers for Disease Control report
that 88% of female stalking victims are stalked by men, while only 7% are stalked by another woman.
Melissa Anelli: She would send vicious, very, very graphic death threats, and also rape threats.
Phoebe Judge: With her threatening to rape you? Melissa Anelli: Yes. Yes. Very... She seemed to
have a plan. Those were the most... difficult ones because they were so, so graphic and it just became commonplace. Every other day. Every time I would ban a
Twitter account, another one would come up. Every time I would make a blog post someplace,
a comment would come up. I would ban IPs, she would get around them. It was, God, hundreds of
email addresses and accounts to get at me. Phoebe Judge: Did you go to the police?
Melissa Anelli: We did. We went to the police, and the police were like, "She's in New Zealand." And that doesn't make it less scary because the world is small these
days. And if somebody is that unhinged, you don't know what they're going to do. It did
make me feel better that she wasn't in New York. But the cops basically said to me, "You can go
get a restraining order, but it's a piece of paper that only works if she's actually in New York."
Phoebe Judge: It's hard enough to prosecute cyberstalking in this country. The requirements
vary from state to state and are phrased in vague and subjective ways, with an attempt to
make a distinction between fear as in "emotional distress" versus fear of serious bodily harm.
I don't know how one evaluates fear, so it's already incredibly confusing. But it becomes nearly impossible to prosecute when you're dealing with someone overseas.
Melissa felt like she couldn't get anyone to help her. The threats kept coming. Threats to leave her
lying in a pool of blood. Bomb threats. Her face was photoshopped onto a pornographic image and
posted publicly to Twitter with Melissa's friends tagged to make sure they saw it.
Then there were the tattoos. Jessica Parker posted photographs of several tattoos
she'd gotten, inspired by Melissa's life. Melissa Anelli: There's a cartoon illustration of
our fellow podcasters, and she got that tattooed on her back. And she copied a tattoo that I got.
She got a tattoo of a woman in a geisha outfit that supposedly represents me on a trip to Japan,
which is something that I mentioned once on a podcast. She got another tattoo that's
supposed to have been partly inspired by my cat — like, it's really something else.
But honestly the thing — that was all, it was all so common. And so coming in thick and fast
at that point, and the heady era of all this, that was like when most of that was happening.
And the thing that really shook me was when she called my mother. Because she called my mother,
and when my mother answered the phone she said, "I got it. I got it. I got it." And she started
laughing in a high pitched voice. And my mother, with no expectation that this was happening,
realized it was her and just stayed very silent on the line until she hung up. I don't know why
she didn't hang up herself, but my mother just realized what was going on. And that's crazy
because my mother's phone has been unlisted since we moved to Staten Island in 1981.
Phoebe Judge: Jessica Parker posted a YouTube video describing the day she'd made the call
to Melissa's mom. At the end of the video, she says, "I don't even like doing this,
but sometimes you make it necessary." Melissa Anelli: She also got all our addresses
off real estate searches. So the fact that I bought an apartment meant she had my home address,
which was great. [Laughs.] So she started sending postcards. She would send a copy,
four copies. My sister's house, my father's office, my mother's home, and me. And it would
all be handwritten — they wouldn't be copied — but it would be the same text, and we'd all get them.
So I would get a text from my mother in the morning with a picture. And I knew that
there was a postcard waiting for me. And this would happen three times a week. She sent a Kewpie doll to my sister with a card, for my nephew, for my just-then-born nephew,
that said, "Enjoy your parents while you can." I mean, I love my nephews more than anything. And
the idea that she even deigned to speak to them, never mind send them something,
never mind send them something threatening, I really did not do well that day. And thank
God for my family. Phoebe Judge: After a year of this abuse with no help from local police, the family finally went to the FBI.
Melissa Anelli: My sister's a lawyer, and she was a number one on the case, she had a case file. [Laughs.] She was really great. And we were asking everybody who we should
call. We were calling the border agency, we were calling... God, we didn't know where to go. And
then somebody said to us, "You should call the FBI." I don't even remember who said that to us.
But we called the FBI. My sister left a message. And we got a call back from an agent named Cari,
who was a giant Harry Potter fan. And she had taken it a little bit on herself to head
the stalking area. She felt strongly about it, that the online world was the Wild West and that
it needed regulation. And she was the first person to say to me, "This shouldn't be happening to you,
and we can help." And that was a full year in. Phoebe Judge: The FBI launched a stalking
investigation with the assistance of the New Zealand police. But they warned Melissa that
cases like this can take years and years to resolve, if a resolution is even possible.
It's strange to think that at the same time, hundreds of thousands of Harry Potter fans were flocking to Melissa's site, celebrating the supportive online community,
a way to find your people. And no one had any idea what Melissa was dealing with.
You were continuing, of course you were continuing your work on your site and the
podcast. Was it hard to try to be the same presence for these fans that you were when
you were constantly looking over your shoulder and pretty sure that this person who was stalking you
was listening, too, and hanging on every word. Melissa Anelli: Very much. It was really difficult
that every time I did anything publicly, there she is. There she is. And I always — I started to know
without having to be told, without her having to make a threat, I started to know exactly when it was her typing. It's like a preternatural — I always know when it's her.
Phoebe Judge: At this point, Melissa was losing hope that law enforcement here or
in New Zealand would ever be able to do much. But then the day before Christmas Eve in 2011, she got some good news. Melissa Anelli: I was at my mom's house. It was
the day before Christmas Eve. And I got an email from Cari Robins, from the FBI, that said,
"Merry Christmas." And it was a forward of... That she was arrested for criminal harassment, finally. And my mother and I
celebrated. We were, like — we said, "Oh my... Oh my God, this has happened. Maybe this will
come to an end now. Maybe she'll get the help." I was warned really early on, "Don't start feeling
sympathy for your stalker. Don't start. Other people can give her sympathy. Don't do it." But
I can't help but feel somebody is failing this girl, that she's not getting the help she needs.
So part of it I was like, "Well maybe — God, maybe she'll get help. And this can all stop. And we can
all go onto better days." Phoebe Judge: What's behind the warning not to feel sympathy? Melissa Anelli: A psychologist friend told
me that. Because you have to stop yourself from empathizing with them so that they can manipulate
you. And that you have to, even if it's not fair, you have to close yourself down to feeling
sympathy, even though you want to be a good human, and leave that job to other people just to protect yourself. Phoebe Judge: She was given a mental
health assessment. The New Zealand police assured Melissa that Jessica Parker would be
under the care of a mental health team and receive ongoing counseling and treatment.
But the criminal charges against her ended up getting dropped as part of a New Zealand
legal practice known as 'diversion.' Basically if Jessica Parker agreed to certain conditions,
like counseling and not contacting Melissa, her charges would be withdrawn. But Jessica Parker did not stop contacting Melissa. Melissa kept meticulous records of each
contact, and emailed every piece of documentation to both the FBI and to the New Zealand police. She
shared much of this documentation with us, years of it. And what's clear is that Jessica Parker was
not getting the mental health care she needs. Melissa Anelli: So it makes these stopgaps of time
where it's quiet. But is it quiet, or will I open my Tumblr box tomorrow and get another message?
Phoebe Judge: Jessica Parker was arrested for a second time in 2012. And that same year, the FBI
secured an international warrant, which meant she would be arrested if she ever tried to come to the
U.S. This time, the New Zealand prosecutors asked Melissa to write a victim's impact statement,
describing the toll this had taken on her. Melissa Anelli: And it was so many times in her
emails and her whatever she had said, "I wish you would just tell me how you feel about all this,
and I'll go away. Just tell me how I've made your life hell. Just tell me what I've done to you."
And I was like, "No. No, there's no way." So when they wanted a victim impact statement, I was like,
"Well, I'm giving her what she wants." And the police from New Zealand, who I now speak with
regularly, said to me, "It would really help if you filled one of those out because she got off
really leniently last time because the judge hadn't heard from you and they couldn't tell."
So I wrote a big victim's impact statement for the second time around. And it seemed to work.
The judge said she wasn't allowed to contact me and all these things, or anyone associated with
me. She wasn't allowed to use the internet. She wasn't allowed to use the mail. It was a really
good ruling, but she started again. So now it's happening again. And it's horrifying how
normal this is now. You know? [Melancholy string music.] Phoebe Judge: A couple of years ago, she made the decision to speak publicly about
the experience and identify her stalker by name. Melissa Anelli: And in the very beginning, I was
told by everybody, the FBI, the police, everybody, "You're not supposed to give them the validation
that they're looking for, because that is never how it stops." And I was in a special situation,
because two years goes by, three years goes by, now we're at five years. And the FBI is — while
they were wonderful to me — is still spinning the wheels, getting something to actually happen
with this criminal harassment thing. And stalking victims are, by default, silenced. It's a crime that you can't participate in the solving of, you're
not allowed. You're not allowed to participate. You're not allowed to stand up and say, "I'm a
victim." You're not allowed. And there are very good reasons for that, but it's still incredibly
frustrating. And I remember myself getting so angry — and so angry, frankly, that everybody
around me didn't really get it. And I just did, I wrote a post, my friend Maureen Johnson,
who's a popular author, wrote a post. And suddenly it was everywhere. Suddenly,
I mean, my God, the emails that started coming in. And suddenly I heard from the
New Zealand police directly. Phoebe Judge: In July of 2013, an affidavit was filed in a New York court, again charging Jessica Parker with criminal harassment.
It's an ongoing investigation. And Melissa says she may have to testify in a New Zealand court.
We reached out to the New Zealand police for an update, but they declined to comment.
And in the meantime, Melissa is just trying to deal with it. It's been eight years.
Melissa Anelli: It's so weird. I'm so used to this. It's like, "Oh, another one from
my stalker." And I don't want to make that... I don't want to indicate that that means I'm not
being affected. That's dangerous, right? If you get so used to it. Actually, somebody from the
FBI did say to me at one point, "Well, can't you just get... This is just going to happen." And I
refuse, I refuse to accept that the only way not to get death threats and rape threats is to just
become desensitized to it. Phoebe Judge: How has this changed how you operate online? Melissa Anelli: Oh, so much. My whole
personal, social experience is so different from everybody who's never had to worry about this.
I think most people now are a little bit more cautious with social media, but they're happy to say things about their personal life in a carefree way like,
"I'm going on a trip next week. Can't wait to go there." I turn off all my... You'll never see...
If you ever see, "From New York, New York," on one of my tweets, that's because I made
a mistake and didn't turn off the location data. I never, ever have the location data on.
It really makes you look over your shoulder. Phoebe Judge: It's so sad though, because online
is kind of how you built your career and your name for yourself, your success. Melissa Anelli: Yes. Ironic, isn't it? I got into a community where it was all about being
passionate and being able to share in a safe space, and somebody perverted that passion into
an extreme and then perverted the safe space, too. And struggling to continue it, keep all that stuff
going in the midst of that has been difficult. A lot of people ask me, "Did you ever just consider
closing Leaky? Closing Leaky Cauldron, just calling it a day..." I was like, "No, absolutely
not. She will not win that way." You know? Phoebe Judge: Why do you think she became fixated on you? Melissa Anelli: I wish I
knew. I get this question so often, "Why you? You're known on the internet a little, why you?"
And every time I try to come up with an answer, I just have to remind myself that there's no
logic. It's not logical. I drew the bad apple. Every known person on the internet gets their
share of lots of this. But this particular thing, even the FBI eventually told me,
this particular thing is rare. Usually one or two years, they give up. Eight years is unheard of. So
if I could put anything on it, I would say that I started to represent Potter to her. I think it
was because I was somebody who was doing things she wanted to do, or liked or whatever admiration
or like or whatever it was, that she had for me sublimated into a desire to contact me,
because she could contact me because I was available. And when I refused that contact,
the fixation I guess, held. [Disorienting electronic music.] Phoebe Judge: She says she's still getting messages she believes are from Jessica Parker all
the time. One came in the day before we spoke. [Electronic music.] Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer and me. Audio mix by Rob Byers.
Special thanks to Alice Wilder and Russ Henry. Julienne Alexander makes original
illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We're a proud
member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collective of the best podcasts around. Shows like Fugitive Waves
by the Kitchen Sisters. They have a new series focusing on food and cooking and how communities
come together around the table. The Kitchen Sisters have been long-time radio heroes of ours.
Fugitive Waves — go listen. We're going on a tour this fall with all new stories told live. We'll be in New York, Minneapolis, Boston,
San Francisco... Lots of other places. You can find out more on our website, thisiscriminal.com. We'd love to see you. Radiotopia from PRX is supported by the
Knight Foundation and MailChimp, celebrating creativity, chaos, and teamwork. And thanks to Adzerk for providing their ad-serving platform to Radiotopia.
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Jingle: Radiotopia. From PRX.

2008 was an exciting time to be a Harry Potter fan. The final book, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, had been released. Movies were on the way. And author Melissa Anelli was at the center of it all, running a popular fan site called The Leaky Cauldron and working on a book, Harry, a History. Just as things couldn’t get better, Melissa received her first death threat. This threat would be the first in what would later become nearly a decade of harassment done from halfway across the world. The culprit? An aggrieved Harry Potter fan named Jessica Parker.

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. https://link.chtbl.com/n33u0HsA

Say hello on Twitter (@CriminalShow), Instagram (@criminal_podcast), and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ThisIsCriminal/.

Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice https://bit.ly/accomplicenewsletter.

We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery.

Artwork by Julienne Alexander http://www.yssrs.com/.

Check out our online shop https://store.dftba.com/collections/criminal.

Episode transcripts are posted on our website https://thisiscriminal.com/.

Episode 48 originally published 08/12/16 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-48-eight-years-8-12-2016

Brief Summary

Melissa Anelli shares her experience of being stalked after running a Harry Potter fan site, detailing threats and legal battles.

Key points

Melissa Anelli's Stalking Nightmare. Melissa Anelli shares her harrowing experience of being stalked online for years.
The FBI Steps In. After a year of harassment, Melissa finally receives help from the FBI.
Jessica Parker's Arrest. Melissa receives news of Jessica Parker's arrest for criminal harassment.
The Impact of Stalking. Melissa discusses the toll stalking has taken on her life and career.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I've never read a Harry Potter book.

Melissa Anelli admits to Phoebe Judge.

0:11WatchNov 20, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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