Cleveland MetroParks Murders ////// 660 | Forensic Files

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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
with me today I have a very special guest all the way from the home of the NFL champions Kansas City but before we
get to that how about a little of this today we are very happy to be featuring there's no crying in baseball by the
good folks over at Evil Genius beer company this is a delicious hazy IPA with natural mango this is lighter than
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and we have a couple beer shout outs to get to First up a big cheers to Amanda in the windy city living it up in
Chicago and last but certainly not least we have Kaylee who is on active Air Force Duty in Omaha Nebraska but
originally from the great believe land Ohio cheers to you Kaylee and thank you for keeping this country great and safe
both Amanda and Kaylee helped us to fill up the old garage fridge this week by contributing to the Beer fund and for
that we thank you and speaking of beer if you can get to the Greater Columbus area come on out and have a beer and a
conversation with me and your good friend the captain at the one and only Brew doog Dog tap April 29th tickets are
available at true Crim garage.com and as the smart people say that is enough of the business so gather
around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime I can't be without
[Music] you I just I miss her so much Kim Brown back at the place where her daughter was
killed 3 months ago today I wish we'd have answers I just can't understand I just can't understand how this could
have happened Tuesday June 4th around 5:15 in the evening 33-year-old Kate Brown and 40-year-old friend Carnell
Sledge sitting on this park bench when they were shot in the heads the killer vanished Without a Trace and has not
been identified we have noide idea who did it we have just no idea and that's upsetting that's horribly upsetting
because Kate and Carnell aren't here now as a result of this abrupt violent act I
mean and why Kim says she believes metr Park police and the FBI are doing all they can as they actively investigate it
does pose new difficulties so with each passing day FBI special agent Vicky Anderson says detectives want to hear
from anyone who was in the park that day or who has heard anything that may help
she says it's still unclear if the killer knew the victims the people that were in their circles you know who were
they talking to um who did they last speak with their family their friends people online that we've run all those
things uh we continue to work those angles but the stranger possibility still exists the metrop park says police
have ued Patrols in the area Kate's family putting up signs pleading for tips as they await answers this couldn't
have happened totally in isolation somebody knows something and I'm hoping somebody will step
[Music] forward a very special night here in the garage I'm very excited I'm joined here
with my longtime friend and host my favorite host of The Generation Y podcast Aaron how are you doing this evening man
I'm doing great because I'm hanging out with you and getting ready to discuss an
important case there are very few places better to be than in the garage and I welcome you and I'm glad that you are
here with me this evening yes this is an important case this is a scary case and
and when I review this case I'm reminded that there simply are cases that I think
are more more frightening than others and here what we are talking about tonight is a double homicide that takes
place in broad daylight in a public place so it certainly makes one take pause and really acknowledge that
unfortunately this terrifying situation could happen to any of us at any time and unfortunately no one is immune to
being a victim and we can't keep our guard up everywhere all of the time now the story starts off like this it's
a beautiful Tuesday afternoon at the Rocky River Reservation this is a Metro Park in the Greater Cleveland Ohio area
we have two good wholesome people who were gunned down that evening now this has become one of the area's most
infamous unsolved homicide cases and an investigation that truly has no easily identifiable motive or suspect effect it
happened just after 5:00 p.m. on June 4th 2019 in a parking lot area north of the
Lorraine Road Bridge in the park according to authorities our victims Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown
arrived at the parking lot around 5:04 p.m. they arrived separately they got out of their cars and they went and sat
down together on a nearby bench the two had been friends for more than a decade and from my understanding meeting there
at this location at the park anyway was not unusual now police say sometime between
58 and 5:15 p.m. an unknown person or persons shot them Kate Brown's body was found in the water so this park bench is
right near the Rocky River it's it's directly in front of the Rocky River and her body is found in the water she has
been shot once in the head Carnell Sledge was found on the ground nearby he had been shot multiple times in the head
according to authorities just minutes later at 5:18 p.m. two kayakers are in the river they're going Upstream
Downstream what have you and they find these two bodies and they call 911 immediately now Aaron this is crazy
because think about that really short brief time frame that we're discussing here the authorities have
managed to narrow this down to parking in the lot at approximately 5:04 p.m. I do want to State some things here first
off right off the rip there's not a lot of information not a lot of details that
have come out about this case from the mouths of law enforcement since this case broke since
this unfortunate incident back in June of 2019 however online there are multiple
reports from different Media news outlets and some of these times do vary to a very small degree so I've seen it
reported that they parked there as early as 5 502 uh this report that I chose to use
is saying 504 and then we have the kayakers discovering the bodies at 518 I've also
seen that it reported that the 911 call came in at 522 so we all can agree though that we
are still talking about a very small window of time from the time that everything was fine everything was
normal everything was great just another beautiful day in the Greater Cleveland area and then unfortunately these two
are gunned down in a Metro Park of all places yeah the timing of that it really suggests this is just from my own
analysis here of course that they were followed that it has that feel do you know what I mean and the other thing the
other thing that really strikes me here is people often say well I need to meet with someone I'm going to meet with them
in public because it's safer this is a well-trafficked area yes it is and yet it didn't help this
situation at all whoever did the shooting was not afraid to do this uh with many people going by a
well-trafficked area and that is so if you look this up on a map we have Lorraine Road which goes over there's a
Lorraine bridge that goes over Rocky River they would parked their vehicles in a parking lot that is very near and
underneath sort of that Lorraine Road bridge and then walked over to this bench sat
down and the way that the crime goes down the murders go down as explained by law enforcement and the news
outlets is that it is believed that they were both seated at this park bench when the first shot was
was fired now what's crazy to me you say well trafficked area this is not just well trffic area we're talking about
cars going over the bridge this there's multiple Lanes in both directions on this
bridge cars going over the bridge we have people that are going to the park going to and from the park it's June in
Ohio that day I believe it was mid 70s around the time that they were killed it was a Tuesday which would give
you a little bit less traffic that as far as the Park's concerned but there's also the Metro
Police they're not housed too terribly far away from this location the thing that shocks me here
and they've done about four press conferences that I could View and listen to throughout the years on this case
they've opened up every one of those press conferences to questions from the media and the Metro Parks
police they're Fielding those questions and they don't offer much up in the way of a details about the case or B
information that they know and I get it it's a catch22 situation you're holding the press
conference to ask the public for their help and for information from the public so you can solve this case so you can
get Justice for Kate and Carnell and their families but then on the flip of that you got to
hold this some information close to your vest and what little information you probably
have it's it's one of those situations where they have some information that's confirming for them approximately what
time they Park their cars they have information something that's telling them that they were shot at
approximately this time now I get it you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out of course they had to be shot
before 522 or before 518 before the 911 call was placed by the kayakers but I want to know where some of this
information comes because you talk about heavily trafficked area both cars people
on foot we even got kayakers we got people walking their dogs in this area people on
bikes somebody at that time of day given that amount of traffic we have to have some ear Witnesses is what I'm thinking
here why don't we have those people coming forward because as far as we know there haven't been have there the
information that I was able to review states that they have received over a hundred tips on this case and that was a
statement given by the Metro Park Parks police and the FBI I believe in 2020 or 2021 so I would make the assumption that
they've received some other tips since then I don't you know it's difficult to say without knowing what that
information is how many of that 100 or so tips were helpful um but that's what they're
stating to us now I say that you got to have some earwitnesses because just the kayakers alone
because we're being told that the police believe and have likely have reason to believe if they're this specific about
the times they're stating that sometime between :8 and 5:15 p.m. an unknown person shot both of them and then by 518
or 522 the 911 call is placed so is it something just as simple I would think that at the very least
those two kayakers would be potential ear Witnesses before they stumble upon the this horrific scene and it's
possible there are ear Witnesses we just haven't been told about who they were and what they
heard sometimes that information gets out in this case like you're saying the Cleveland metrop Parks police they've
been very quiet and they're not releasing much one thing we have been told here is that robbery does not seem
to be a motive and we're basing this off of the idea that Carnell's wallet was still on his
person Kate's purse was found where they were sitting and cell's laptop was still in
his car so items of value were not taken from the victims or from their vehicle yeah that tells us something right away
and when I was reading about this for the first time when I first learned of it from you
it really struck me as the kind of case where it felt like a targeted attack that's what's very odd about this case
because we have some statements from law enforcement they were very quick to say
we have no reason to believe the attacks were random that's one thing they were saying right from Jump
Street they were stating they believed it was an isolated incident and that the general public or people
going to the park were not at uh in any danger or at a safety risk now again you want to know what they're
basing that off of or if they're basing it off of anything at all other than just sheer stat statistics I mean most
could it be something else Nick you've seen the movie Jaws yes I have and you know that was part of the film film
where someone gets attacked and killed and they're reassuring all the tourists no it's fine you know don't worry about
it it won't happen again exactly and that's what I wondered were they basing that off of well the statistics will
tell us that most homicides the overwhelming majority of them are isolated incidents person a has a beef
with person B and attacks or kills them that's usually how these things play out
but that's reasonable isn't it given the timing of this I mean this one of the questions early on was was Kate headed
towards the river just because she was wandering away for a moment to look out that didn't seem likely because they
hadn't been there long enough right that's something that might happen if they had been there for 25 30 minutes
but not if only for what 3 four minutes no she was probably trying to get away I
agree with you and and your you're exactly right Aaron that's that was the speculation or at least it it wasn't law
enforcement statements but that was the speculation that was coming out earlier in in this case and in the
investigation there were people saying that Carnell was seated at the bench and that Kate was up either
looking into the river maybe skipping a rock or something of that nature Carnell
is shot and killed and then Kate is shot and killed and falls down the it's it's of course a
little bit of a a ravine like into the into the river there so this River like like all it fluctuates in depth but it's
it's rather wide and at the time of the homicides the water was pretty shallow and
so when you see you can check out news stories online news stories of this case and in the more recent ones the river's
quite higher at the time and the park bench looks like you're like 2 feet from the water but when this when these
homicides took place the river was rather low and it's my understanding that she
fell down into that that space into the dirt just before the water and so unfortunately her body would be
extremely obvious to those kayakers as they were coming by there are so many questions you can literally come up with
multiple scenarios of what could have happened uh just because I think she was trying to get away because Carell was
suddenly shot doesn't mean that's exactly how it happened we don't know I'm just basing it off of the timing of
everything you also could question if she fell down and would be more exposed to other people perhaps that meant the
shooter didn't have time to do do anything else and had to leave yeah so one thing that's come in question here
is the nature of the wounds and we do have some information from the kyoga County Medical Examiner this is Dr Tom
Gilson Dr Thomas gillson I've personally met Dr gillson on a couple of occasions
so the nonprofit that I work for the porch light project we have worked hand in hand with the kyoga county Medical
examiner's Office on a couple of cases this dude is a standup guy you know we we look at these cases you and Justin
the captain and I we look at these cases a new one every week sometimes they're unsolved cases and when you have a case
that goes unsolved for a year two three this one coming up on four years now you
do question the investigation and I think that's fair to do so I mean citizens do why can't podcasters do it
so I think it's fair to do so I will give my humble garage opinion here on this gentleman if there is a problem
with this investigation it's not coming from Dr gillson I've as said I've met with him
several times when you talk about level of give a [ __ ] go ahead and put that at
a 100 for Dr gillson because he has personally taken out time of his busy work day and and spent time and
resources from his office to meet with the porch light project on several cases that being of some unidentified persons
unidentified remains and even a homicide a couple homicide cases so this is somebody that is willing to go the extra
mile and and meet with with some people that are eager to help and assist in some of these unsolved cases so uh
coming from his office the reports that I've seen state that cardinell Sledge unfortunately died
of multiple gunshot wounds To The Head And to be a little more detailed about that most of the reports state two shots
to the Head Katherine Brown or Kate Brown the reports are that she suffered one gunshot wound which killed her and
some of the reports state that it was a singular gunshot to the Head yes and so when you and I had spoken about this uh
about a week ago you thought that that told you something that Kate was shot once while
Carnell was shot at least twice yes I did and I the thing was that when we spoke about it I was a little
unclear about the where on the person they were shot and it sounded to me like if if we
were talking one gunshot to the female victim and multiple to the male victim my suspicion on that for for a period of
time anyway was that maybe she was taken out first and then he had an opportunity
to respond now what we can say is it's obvious that they were attacked from behind now can I say that they didn't
see the killer approaching them no we can't say that but what we do know is based off of information that's come out
Carnell was in the seated position or or seated at the bench just before the gunshot started and I think you're
spoton with your statement there Aon of of the belief of possibly Kate was attempting to to flee you know uh this
all went down very quickly and I'm basing and backing up what you stated off of some information that I
discovered recently this is from uh Cleveland news 13 in a statement that says the family
of the victims said that Kate was shot running for her life so that Carell would have been shot
while still seated at the park bench and I don't think she was up by the water I
think she was sitting right right next to him had a split second to react she got up and started to go and it's still
a shot at relatively close range the momentum carrying her forward and pushing her close to the river falling
over that that that it's a maybe a few feet bit of a ledge there leading down to the Rocky River yeah so once again I
think we need to talk a bit more about the timing because one of the things I learned was that this was after 5:00 and
Carnell wasn't supposed to be at this location at least according to his family he was supposed to be at his
grandmother's house and no I haven't and Aaron I do want to apologize it was Cleveland 19 news I think I said
Cleveland 13 there just a second ago this is interesting to me right because given the time period 5 o'l that's the
time when we think okay you you're just recently off of work uh what is this Meetup here for and
there there's been a lot of speculation by the public as to what this Meetup or rendevu would be for and law enforcement
has been pretty clear and the families both families have been very clear these two knew each other they knew each other
for an extended period of time had known each other for 10 plus years I've even seen statements that it was not uncommon
for them to meet at this the statements are this location but can we say this very park bench no
um I think we we should probably gener generalize that a little bit more and simply say it was probably not uncommon
for them to meet at this park what's interesting to me though is a statement from Kate's family that said that she
frequented the park uh with other people as well so that would lead me to believe
possibly this was a location of her choosing right so if we put that together with again this is just
speculation but if Carnell was supposed to be over at his grandmother's place and people were trying to reach out to
him asking where he was why are you not over here this might have been something
set up not too long prior to when they got there this might have been a last minute thing and that would make you
question why were they suddenly meeting at this [Music] park ah the sounds of the
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greenlight.com slmp [Music] podcast so for those unfamiliar with the case Carell Sledge age 40 when he's killed he
is an African-American man Kate Brown was age 33 when she was killed and she is a Caucasian woman this has caused
some to speculate could this be a hate crime or or something that is race related or or or a racist
motivation because I think what's weird about this case to me it feels like while we have very few
details and limited information I look at this thing and from from the first couple of weeks till where we sit today
I still feel like we're talking about only a few scenarios that are that are likely here that if it was somebody on
foot or on bike or some random person in the park I see it it would have to be some
kind of racially motivated homicide or some kind of Thrill Kill or if they were targeted as
we're led to believe by statements from the FBI and the metr parks Police Department then I'm with you given the
short window they I mean they're only there they're by law enforcement as little as they're telling us the one
thing they are telling us is they were there for uh let me pull this up right in front of me because I want to make
sure hit this out of the park they were only there between 52 and at at the at the greatest 502 to
515 and they're shot and killed or the shorter part of that would be 504 to 508 and they're shot and killed has to
mean that that one of them were followed there we know that they arrived in in two separate
vehicles I making a guess here that they were coming from two different locations somebody had to be watching
one of these individuals and and tracked them there and not only tracked them there
but went undetected you would think they would had to have gone undetected to cardnell or Kate right it I really
believe that they arranged to meet there last minute because he didn't inform anyone he was changing his plans uh his
grandma mother was Audrey Corey and by all accounts that's where he was supposed to be was with her he took good
care of her this guy was known to be very caring um I mean he worked with special needs kids at Empower Sports and
it was all about letting anyone play sports you know I when I was younger I would try to play sports and I was
always the last one picked because I was so scrawny and I wasn't very good at sports but uh you know at his program it
didn't matter who you were you could play by basketball you know what I mean everybody could participate and so with
as caring as he was I even his own mother said uh that he was a a loving man he was a God-fearing man he wasn't
perfect but they were proud of him and and Kate Brown everyone vouches for how wonderful she was these are like you
said wholesome people longtime friends what would cause them at the last minute to decide to meet at the park like that
were they just going to meet and talk for a few minutes because maybe Kate had something she wanted to tell him maybe
she was feeling emotional maybe something happened and she needed to talk to someone he said why don't we
stop by the park and we can talk about it before I head on to my grandma's house right we don't know what it was uh
the speculation could take us many places but what we do know is they were good enough friends that if one of them
said hey could you meet me at the Park I want to talk about some stuff or whatever they would both go to the park
that wouldn't even be a question right no it wouldn't be a question I don't think so given what we've heard from
Kate's family that she frequented the park um her father said that it was a place that she would often go to meet
her mother and what where my inquisitive mind starts to go is well what what would it be that they needed to discuss
in person and in this setting rather than over the phone or through text and the other thing too given the timeline
of what we're being told of hey we've narrowed down the time of death to this short little window here we're not
telling you that we have any eyewitnesses because if we had an eyewitness what we would have is
a a suspect description and I know what you're about to jump in and say and we can Circle back to that here in a minute
but but to be Frank here in the early goings of this case and investigation we're not told
that there is any eyewitness right and so to have this very short little time window of approximately seven
minutes or 10 minutes depending on what timeline you go by of this is when the shots occurred this is when they were
killed I start to wonder was there some form of communication was there you know a text
sent out by Carell at 507 uh to to a family member to a friend or a cooworker and so they know okay
Carnell was alive and well at 507 because he sent out this text message the the thing is I did not know that he
was supposed to be going to his grandmother's house that evening but what is interesting and what I I think
makes it easy for me to believe that is his grandmother said something so cute and and you knew that they were close
and and he was very close with his parents and close with his grandmother but one of her statements was talking
about her grandson was he loved to eat and I love to cook and she said it with with this beautiful smile and um so it
makes perfect sense that Carnell was on his way to see Grandma that evening uh who knows did he need to be there at
5:30 did he need to be there at 5 we do know one thing I do know based off of some statements uh he was working as a
an audio technician audio visual technician for a company ciss Cresent I'd have yes
Cresent thank you and he a person that he worked with who he interacted with that day the day that he was killed said
we we spoke everything seemed normal he was his happy go-lucky self uh he was always a joy to be around no
different on that day we discussed uh an expense report or something of that nature something very much work
related and that person went on to say Carnell would have left work that day sometime between 4 and 5:00 pm this is
at Crescent digital yes so I you know so he may have gone from work to meet up with Kate
Brown yep that's what we're guessing here right mhm I don't know if knowing why they were meeting would tell us
anything or not because as we know if if someone if someone is targeting you it may have
been someone who didn't understand the relationship that Carnell had with Kate that's just one possibility
right exactly and that I think that is underlined and should be easily understood by everybody and E easily
belied because as soon as these two poor people were killed people that didn't know them that
were reading about this in the newspaper watching it on the news were questioning
what is the relationship between Carnell and Kate and we have family telling us they were friends now does do what I
expect parents out there everywhere to know what type of relationship that their 40-year-old son or 33y old
daughter has with other adults the details and the specifics of those of the of that relationship or
dynamics of that relationship no but again I think that you could have those two theories that we're discussing here
tonight fit based off of what you just said a misunderstanding of what it is their Rel
what their relationship was or the nature of their relationship on this given day yeah I it's one thing to try
and figure out what happened it's another to try and look at the people involved to see if there were any clues
along the way and when I was reading up on Kate it was said that her dad was talking about how she had lost 100
pounds she was exercising regularly doing yoga and he said she was just better than ever mhm better
than ever so at least as as far as the Brown family was con concerned Kate seemed to have everything going her way
everything was looking up because she just was uh you know from what I was reading she had a real zest for life and
she was motivated and then if you look at Carell's life he took great joy in taking taking care of other people
making them feel good so again I don't look at this and think they were up to no good at this
park I just just think I think it's what everyone's saying they were really good
friends they decided to meet at the park for some reason and like I said if I had
to put I don't know a guess on this it would be one of them maybe needed to talk about something and who better to
talk about it with then one of their very best friends a trusted friend a trusted longtime friend you know
and sometimes when you're going through something or sometimes when you're faced
with something the best person to talk to is one of those I I know that I have a couple
buddies that I've had to deliver the hard truth to them once or twice and they've had to deliver the hard truth to
me once or twice throughout the decades that we've known each other and um there's been times where I've had to
tell them they're wrong or tell them to move on from something that's not good for them and they've had to do the same
for me uh there's been other times too where you just say look I'm not I'm not in a sticky situation here nothing's bad
with Nick I just need to talk I need some advice I got to bounce something off of you and those are the people you
go to and I think that's exactly what was probably Happening Here what I think is less likely out of the two scenarios
that I think are the most probable is I would go 1 a and 1B 1B being the racially motivated homicide and look
it's not something that's comfort that that's comfortable to talk about but it happens right it it it has happened and
unfortunately it continues to happen there will always be hateful people in every country
everywhere but we also have people that do kill for the thrill of it I don't think with with given such little
information I don't think it's easy for us to rule out those possibilities I have spoke to some of
the people that are from that area grew up in that area uh and and have lived there for for many years they agree that
that would be the second most likely Theory here that that they would put forward the first being that
somebody as you said uh was either jealous wanted some kind of Revenge or did not understand
the nature of their relationship and for that to be the case I'm with you Aon I think somebody had to
have fallen had to have to follow one of these individuals to the park that day that
evening and then that makes you wonder and take it a step further was the intention to take them both out or was
one of the victims just collateral damage right did they even know there was going to be a second person there or
was this going to be a planned confrontation and that second person threw their plans
arai before we get into the and I'm using air quotes here you can't see me but you can feel it with your air with
your earballs out there people air quotes before we get into the eyewitness Aaron is it okay if I throw
out two of the rumors that were going around I always I always when when there's a case that has so many
open-ended questions as this one does I do like to put my ear to the ground and hear what some of the locals are
saying and I I know that it's a bit of Reckless speculation but in more than one
case where a case has went unsolved for 10 years 8 years and more than one occasion there
has been a local rumor that many were talking about and then later it turns out to be well that's exactly how it
went down um so in this case I don't know if these rumors have reached you I'm I'm obviously proximity
wise quite a bit closer to the case being here in Ohio than than you are in beautiful Kansas City home of the the
greatest quarterback known to man Patrick Mahomes but uh the what I heard from the locals
is one of two possibilities that it was either an ex of Carell's or that Kate had met somebody
via a dating app and either Cardell had offered her some advice or maybe had discovered that
the Suitor or potential Suitor that she was talking to may have have not been who he says he was rumors
there's no way for us to know until uh like you said it could take years and if this thing is solved
perhaps one of those rumors will have been proven to be true I do think it's possible that an ex would be involved
just because they still are in a certain place emotionally that the other person isn't
MH and so uh while they're haunted the other person has moved on on and they don't even know that there's a plot
against them before we get to that eyewitness let's I want to talk about something that that does bother me about
the case and you know what it's weird because we do these cases and sometimes I get accused of
being too much of a blue blood and then go ahead and tune in next week and you go all right well sounds like Nick
doesn't like the police at all I think you look at the yeah I think you have to look at these situations on a a case-by
casee basis and one thing that I try to say and remind people is every one of these cases is
unique none of them fit in any particular size or shape box they're all very unique cases because we're talking
about Unique Individuals victims suspects locations circumstances everything is very unique
with every case same as the people that are investigating the case and just like any career or any Walk of
Life or any work any job out there there are people that are good at their jobs and people that straight up suck at
their jobs and guess what that means there are bad doctors out there there are bad people in law enforcement but
they're also great people in law law enforcement most of them are great most of them are fantastic now I'm not
accusing anybody in this particular case of not being great at their job because
I don't know what information they do or don't have or or maybe there's simply no information out
there but one thing I one thing that always kind of bothers me about these press conferences where us the public we
rely so heavily on what we're being told by the experts and by the authorities but then they're coming back
to us during these press conferences and asking us for help but then when the media starts to raise their hand and ask
questions at the end of your conference and your your answer for everything is well
because this is an ongoing investigation I I can't answer that question or that and you're referencing right now police
chief kathern Dolan yeah she's the one that was uh hosting these media briefings yeah and that that has been
her answer for everything so where all these investigations and cases are unique that answer certainly is not
unique to any case and not unique to this case because that's the answer I've heard every darn time that a question is
asked the thing that drives me nuts is often and John Q public may not know this or may not have put much interest
into it to figure it out but a lot of times these press conferences are led by either a police
chief or in a larger Department you'll have like a public information officer typically that person that's
giving the press conference standing at the podium they've not actually actively
work the investigation themselves that holds true most of the time I can't say that it's true in this
case but I get the vibe that that's what we're getting here Aaron we do it it makes sense that the chief would be the
one to come forward and talk to the public but does the chief have the ability to answer these questions
is she choosing to stand up there and make make a strategic decision as far as her her
investigation goes and says well I can't answer that because it pertains to an investigation or is it I can't answer
that because I don't know the answer to that question and this is my fallback because the question that that
I wanted to hear the most is a very astute reporter says look there's got to be surveillance cameras on this road and
that road and this road how many surveillance cameras are there in this location and were you able
to access them you know what time the victims arrived at the parking lot so you must have some information did you
get that from surveillance footage answer well that pertains to our investigation so I cannot answer that
question somebody followed them there I and and I would be willing to to slap down a Benjamin Franklin right now on
the table and wager that somebody followed one of these people to the park that day and then went in and shot and
killed both of them can we can you pull anything from that surveillance footage have you
checked all of those bases and if so what is that information telling you do you have a car of interest do you have a
vehicle of interest and that's what we're expecting that they know some things that they're just not letting us
know about and we wouldn't know until they make an arrest you had some brilliant information
of Carnell was intending to or was supposed to be going to Grandma's house and either at the last minute may have
changed his plans or this could have just been a brief stop along the way do you have any idea of where Kate
was coming from because we know we do know that that maybe Carnell did not go directly from work to the Metro Park he
may have given that we have a coworker saying he could have left as late as 5:00
pm but that gives us some idea or at least gives us a little bit of detail about his timeline for the day
in question do you know where Kate was coming from do we have any clue on that well real quick with Carell they might
know BAS on interviews done with his co-workers uh what time he actually did leave maybe someone does know what time
he left as for Kate I actually do not know where she was coming from but she may have been at work as
well I would imagine if she because typically when she went to the park they said she exercised at the park a lot mhm
but if she drove there to meet Carell then obviously she wasn't there exercising I could not find where Kate
worked I found some information stating that she worked at a jewelry store for approximately seven years and the way
that it was worded made it sound like she was probably still working there at the time of her death yes and that's
what I assume is that she was still working there because not only did they say where she worked but she said she
considered her co-workers and boss like family correct but if you look take look
at her obituary it seems as though she is the kind of person that is good at making
friends and is a loyal friend they said that and this is in her obituary once she was your friend she
would always be your friend she was very loyal well and something that backs that
up is what we do know her long-term friendship with Carnell if if Carell was coming
from work Aaron what I'm showing here is if he was at the home office uh this would have put him about
a 12mile drive from the home office to where his vehicle was parked so about a 20 minute
drive if that was in fact where he if he came directly from work it would it would appear to me given the statements
of he would have left work between 4: and 5:00 p.m. that only leaves a very short
window of time for him to have stopped elsewhere along the way so that's where this is at right I mean we know that the
metrop Park police have investigated this we know they have had assistance from the
FBI we know that once the shootings occurred that the park was checked for evidence but the only things that they
admitted to finding were several shell casings from a weapon and they didn't seem to really want to comment about the
footage that would have come from the cameras in the area they didn't want to talk about the footage that would have
come from the cameras the shell casings would tell us what because we we don't we don't have information about the gun
that's released to the public we're not told what caliber or if more than one gun was
used we can assume that it was not a revolver that given that they found shell Cas
casings at the scene you had found a report that stated three shell casings that's what I have found in all
my reading it seemed the most consistent bit of information regarding the shooting as far as evidence found were
several shell casings which are three um or you might say a few uh a few shell casings three shell casings found there
but um and that goes along with some of that goes along with some of the reports
that he was shot twice and she sorry that Carnell was shot twice and Kate shot once now right but I recall you saying
you wondered if he was the target yeah and that he would be a witness who needed to be
stopped I I wondered that and I think you could argue both sides of the coin and people put and and dumb people like
me put a lot of psychology into the way that these crimes go down but a lot of people would suggest that that one of
two situations he would have been shot first because he was the Target or you could argue because he's
the man and poses the bigger threat to the shooter that you eliminate the threat
first and then take out the target I would definitely suggest people look up pictures of Carnell
sledge that would give them some idea of why he would have been shot first and that you're correct uh if you're well
when perpetrators shoot people they often try to take out the person who poses the biggest threat to them and I
would say Carell would have posed a threat and keep in mind the way this goes down the way that
we are kind of explain that it went down or the way that we have to put these pieces
together would lead you to believe that they that either he was seated at the bench or they both were seated at the
park bench when the first shot was fired and so if you are the perpetrator or perpetrators and you have the ability
to sneak up behind them you would unfortunately get to choose who you're going to Target first
and as you just said look up pictures of Carnell and and given his background too
I mean he's he's an athletic looking guy he's a guy that looks to be in good physical
condition now I know you're just you're just chopping at the bit right here aren't you Aon you want to get to this
this eyewitness no I mean you've teased it a few times I think we should get to it now because uh
there are definitely people waiting to find out what else is going to happen here because for many people I suspect
this will be the first time they're hearing of this case I'm not saying no one's covered it but I don't think it's
gotten as much press as much coverage as some other cases and I find that to be a
little strange with it being a the nature of the crime itself and I I get it they don't think it's
random they think it was targeted nobody else should be afraid to go to the park I get all that but look I
mean okay then Metro Parks police solved the case prove it and I I'm I'm not going to look I not
going to hold back here Aaron I'm a little concerned that the Metro Park police I I I reviewed something that
stated that the FBI took over the case at some point I don't believe that to be true that looked to be more to me to be
somebody's speculation on a message board somewhere it looks to me like the Metro
Parks police are still the primary investigators on this case and the FBI is assisting them there is a local
office there in Cleveland so that is helpful but the way that I see this going down and from from other cases
that I've reviewed you typically have the primary and then the FBI who says they're assisting it's more of a hey we
check in from time to time and see if they need anything or we sit down and have a meeting every month or every or
quarterly and put our heads together and see what comes about I'm not going to lie and I feel bad saying this on a
microphone where it's being recorded I don't feel great that it's that the primary on this is the
Cleveland Metro the I'm sorry the uh the Metro Parks police the police chief says it herself
there in the in the conference in the first news conference the parks are a very safe
place we've not had a homicide in our Metro Parks for over two decades well I don't know how much
confidence I have in your experience in investigating these matters these very serious
matters now if it were a situation where I was worried about if people are walking their dogs on a leash or off of
a leash I feel very confident that the metrop parks police would straighten that situation out but this is that's
not what we're talking about here so do you want to play garage guy and lead us into this eyewitness and let me
play Generation Y guy or should we remain in our roles well let's just see what I say
so there was a letter that came into the media right and it went to Fox 8 news this
Anonymous letter was sent in and it went into detail about the person who had shot Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown now
they said it was a woman wearing a green hoodie cuffed jeans and black walking shoes and it also said that this woman
had words with Carell before she opened fire so Fox 8 News got this letter they turned it over to the
FBI now this letter came in months after the murders but in May of 2021 that's when Fox 8 released that letter to the
public and the FBI put out a plea saying if you wrote this please come forward we
want to talk with you and they got lucky because within a week a person showed up to talk to the
police about it now once again you're wondering what could we find out because the police have been so tight
lipped so I would say take this with a grain of salt because we don't know what they're doing here because in any
investigation you have to be careful about what you release sometimes they release nothing sometimes
they release a lot but they hold a few things back the spokesperson for the police
said that individual told us it was a premonition that they'd had several times and they felt like it was coming
to them and they needed to report it it was nothing that they had seen yeah and so this got the area in
quite a stir right so when this news broke that they received an anonymous letter and and and in fact the way that
the news broke it almost implied that it was just an eyewitness that came forward
and then then shortly thereafter you learn that it come it came via Anonymous letter they yes did release that letter
and when I reviewed it the first thing that I thought was this doesn't sound like a an
eyewitness and I know you've reviewed these for the Generation Y and cases that you've
reviewed the words and the way that they were describing things and and in particular I'll read one statement that
was in the letter that kind of showed the cards to me that this was coming from a person that believes that they
have psychic abilities it says they ask a question to the investigators now yes this was sent to
the media and not to law enforcement so it says none of my business but none of my business by were sorry I'm reading
their exact words which gets difficult none of my business I believe they're trying to say but were the two talking
marriage meaning Carnell and Kate don't believe this was the motive and correct me if I'm wrong on on any of these
portions here a then they go go on to say I hit a snag I thought I had a name but who said the name wasn't Carnell or
Kate it was a white man sitting on the bench with Sandy brown hair and glasses like Drew Cary he was looking behind the
bench at the woman and he said quote for God's sake Amy put down the gun but the more the woman was talked to
the more agitated and irate she became the I hit a snag was the telling part to me I
thought I had a name you hear that often when psychics are giving their reports you know I'm oh
I'm I thought I was getting a name or I last time I I had this Vision I I saw a name or heard a name and so when
immediately when I saw that I thought I hope this psychic this air quotes witness comes forward to clear up that
they weren't actually there that day but how do people respond to this how does law enforcement respond to this when
someone is coming forward with a lot of information but then it turns out they dreamed it or had a vision of
it it's the whole Oh I thought I was getting a name or I thought I was getting more information than suddenly I
lost it but I do have this much well you want to know why they came forward and so you if you are this person you've
just opened yourself up to investigation and one thing you do have on your side one thing that I would say
you have in your favor as looking less guilty than more guilty would be that you did in fact come forward and say hey
yes it was me I was the person that wrote that letter and no I was not there at the park that day
but I'm just trying to help out and I've been having these dreams or visions or whatever and I can't shake them and I'm
maybe I'm just a good person and I thought I could help out they look like good people I wanted to try to
help there's that possibility there's also the possibility that and I would think that this would be less likely I
would I would think that the person would likely not come forward if they were trying to throw a wrench in the
investigation um but if it was a a a man of color who was responsible then of course somebody would throw out
the idea that well it was this woman that looked like Reba McIntyre uh with a hoodie on uh so yeah it's it's one of
the weird weirder ends of this case or weirder angles anyway of this case and at first I didn't know what to
to make of it and I know that the the news kind of ran with this Anonymous letter for for a portion anyway for
several months well I think they had to right they were wanting to report on this case the police weren't giving them
anything this letter was the only thing really to report on at that point well and the families wanted more attention
to and rightfully so to their loved ones case and I'm thankful to the media Outlets
that were choosing to run the story and remind the the people of this case one thing we should point out too
is there's a considerable award or sorry a considerable reward for money a money reward here in
this case $100,000 my understanding Aaron is that 25,000 of that is being put up by the
Federal Bureau of Investigation and the other 75,000 is from the families yeah I know that at
first the FBI offered a $220,000 reward Crim Stoppers offered $2,500 for information um later of course these
amounts increased including money from uh the families so yeah that's $100,000 so when you have a crime like
this that's so brazen right in full view of the public or you would imagine and this person got away
with it so far $100,000 you would think that would bring forth some more tips someone would
want to claim that if they knew something and what's wild about that anonymous tip and then of course later
we learn that it it's not Anonymous the person comes forward but I remember on the news
reports that they were saying that there were some details that they believe that the
anonymous tipster got correct in in the in their letter and so it held a little bit of weight right it
was holding water a little bit or at least portions of it and so again that's just one of those
I I don't know I I and there are people out there that are shaking their head at
me right now they're like why would you put any um thought why would you waste your time on as soon as you hear that
it's a person saying that they're getting Visions I don't know that I'm betting much on what they're saying but I do
know that there are detectives that I've spoke to that would say nope throw it right
out it's a waste of time there are other detectives that will tell you you know what when you've run out of ideas you're
willing to take phone calls from anyone tell me something that's outside of the box tell me something that I haven't
thought of yet and oh by the way tell me why you think this or do you have any any information to to back that up I
really believe you can't throw everything out can't throw anything out you might take something that came in
and say okay this isn't going to solve the case for us but maybe it's a puzzle piece that you don't know how it fits
into the whole thing but it's a piece so you can't throw it out I think once you
start uh getting tunnel vision in such an open-ended case like this you could definitely make some mistakes you also
have to wonder as a detective when you look at something like this why did this person have such a strong desire to to
the point of it becoming a need that they had to reach out communicate this information to somebody
even though it was a news outlet and instead of law enforcement why why do they come forward and it may
Simply Be they believe that they're psychic it also could be more of an emotional
response they feel guilty because they know something or they heard something or somebody they know knows
something and that to goes back to this reward money 100,000 is not a reward that is put together for
somebody that was in the park that day that saw something and just decided not to come forward or forgot that they saw
something or heard something or did see something and they're too afraid no in my opinion
$100,000 that reward is put together for somebody who has direct information from
the killer or one of the killers that somebody told somebody somebody made a threat oh you know that
you know that that thing that happened to those people in the Park oh you know I could do that to
you or maybe they were talking about one of those individuals beforehand talking
about how upset they were with them and then they were quiet after the murders exactly exactly I don't think
that whoever did this and I again would bet a Benjamin Franklin right now that it was a targeted attack just as we're
being told I can't figure out who was the target one the other or both but I don't believe for a second
that 10 minutes before this happened this person decided to do this I think this likely was something
that was building and as you said they may have told somebody in advance maybe not that they're planning to go to the
park maybe not that they're planning to take somebody out but that they had a beef with one of these people had a big
problem with either Carnell or with Kate and damn it they were going to do something about
it and so that's what this reward money is for um so if you're out there and you
hear this stop sitting on your hands come forward you know they have we have multiple law enforcement agencies that
you can reach out to there's all also a dedicated tip line where you can be anonymous so anybody with information
can call the Cleveland Branch the Cleveland FBI Branch at 26522 1400 or you could call that dedicated
metr Parks police tip line at 440 331 5219 is there anything that we missed Aaron
or anything that we did not get to yes definitely for people that want to know how this may have gone down they should
check out an animation put together by Scott rer he did this in 2021 he's a crime scene Reconstructionist with the
evidence room and he used the autopsy report and he also visited the crime scene to put this together so I think
it's helpful to actually see it and um I definitely hope that someone listening maybe can make a difference in
this case because that's why we're covering it we would like for people to think about this case keep it alive
because I would hate to think that Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown died and that their families will not get Justice
Aon I want to thank you for joining me here in the garage it's always a pleasure always a lot of fun um given
the circumstances obviously we're talking about these real life tragedies and the loss of these two great people
and these two families are suffering a lot still and and need the Public's help to to get some form of and some sense of
closure but I do want to thank you for joining me and and taking the time out and I'm hoping we can do it again
absolutely anytime man you just let me know all right take care Aon cheers [Music]
all right lots of great stuff from one half of the great Generation Y podcast our recommendation this week if you
haven't already go and check out the Generation Y podcast your earballs are going to love it and when you're there
you just might might find the captain if you do tell them I said hi we will be back at it again next week so make sure
you stop by the garage and see us and until then be good be kind and don't litter
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Cleveland MetroParks Murders ////// 660

Part 1of 1

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Carnell Sledge and Katherine Brown were longtime friends. On June 4, 2019 the two met at the Rocky River Reservation, one of Cleveland’s MetroParks. It was a beautiful day and many were out and about. The two arrived separately but at about the same time which was right around 5pm. They found a bench near the river to sit down and have some conversation. Just about twenty minutes later kayaker’s found the two dead. The killer or killers are still at large. If you have any information please contact the FBI’s Cleveland Field Office at 216-622-6842. Tips can also be submitted at tips.fbi.gov (http://tips.fbi.gov/)

A very big thank you to one of my very favorite podcasters - Aaron from the Generation Why podcast for joining me in the Garage this week to discuss this still unsolved case. The Generation Why podcast has been pumping out great podcast episodes since 2012. You can listen to them wherever you get your podcasts. For more information go to www.GenWhyPod.com (http://www.genwhypod.com/)

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved double homicide of Kate Brown and Carnell Sledge, highlighting investigation challenges and community responses.

Key points

A Tragic Double Homicide. Two friends were shot in broad daylight at a public park, leaving the community in shock.
The Mysterious Meeting. Carnell and Kate's last-minute park meeting raises questions about their relationship and intentions.
Speculation on Motives. The discussion delves into possible motives behind the tragic events surrounding Carnell and Kate.
Frustration with Police Responses. The police chief's repeated inability to answer questions frustrates the public and media.
Anonymous Letter Leads to Eyewitness. An anonymous letter reveals a potential eyewitness to the crime, stirring public interest.
Reward for Information. A significant reward of $100,000 is offered for information on the case.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Somebody knows something and I'm hoping somebody will step forward.

Kim Brown pleading for information about her daughter's murder.

5:36WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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