Bryan Kohberger’s Dark Obsession in the Idaho Murders | Forensic Files

Hi Crime Junkies. The story I have for you today is one that I know you've heard of. It was a case that made every
news station nationally at some point. And post Karen Read, we were all gearing up for this trial to dominate public
attention all over again. But, less than 2 weeks ago, there was a shocking turn of events. Just a month
and a half out from trial, the defendant accepted a plea deal, agreeing to plead
guilty in exchange for the death penalty being taken off the table. It is a move that has the public, and
more importantly, the families of the victims split. Some people are happy he's accepting responsibility without
dragging everyone through a spectacle at the expense of taxpayers. But others are frustrated because the
trial was their chance at possibly getting an answer to the one question that has mystified a nation.
Why did Bryan Kohberger kill four students at the University of Idaho? It's around 4:00 a.m. on November 13th,
2022, when Dylan Mortensen wakes up to some noises in her off-campus home at 1122 King Road.
Now, she'd been out drinking the night before, so she's still a bit buzzed, and her understanding of what's going on is
a little hazy. But it sounds like maybe a different roommate who stays in the room on the floor above her is like uh
playing with her dog or something. But as she gets her bearings a little bit, she thinks she hears that roommate,
Kaylee Goncalves, say, "There's someone here." So, Dylan gets out of bed, cracks her
door to peek out, but she doesn't see anything. And she tries to shake it off, close her door, go back to bed, probably
telling herself like the bumps in the night are nothing. But she still hears noises.
And then she hears crying. Except it's not coming from Kaylee's room upstairs, it sounds like it's coming from a room
on her floor, her other roommate's, Xana Kernodle's. And then she hears what sounds like a voice.
A man's voice saying, "It's okay. I'm going to help you." Now, she tries looking out her door another time, only
to see the same empty, dark hallway. But she can't ignore whatever sixth sense is
tugging her to her door to check just one more time. And I can almost imagine it feeling like
this amorphous energy getting closer and closer as she opens her door once more,
until all of a sudden, that thing she was sensing has a form. Right in front of her is a man dressed
in all black with a mask covering his mouth and nose. I mean, the only thing visible are his eyes beneath bushy
eyebrows. And they're looking directly at her. Now, she knows this guy has seen her,
but he doesn't say a word, and he doesn't move toward her. He just walks toward the sliding glass door that leads
out the home's back patio. And I have no idea what could have been going through
Dylan's mind in that moment, what story she was trying to tell herself. The way she probably tried to discredit her own
eyes and ears. She was probably confused, probably afraid, drunk on top of it all, and human, telling herself
the things we all do. Bad things happen to other people, not me. Nevertheless, in the instant that this guy moves past
her, she locks herself inside her room and immediately starts trying to call her roommates. Which there were what,
like five of them total living in the house then? Well, technically, four girls who lived there. Dylan, Xana, then
Bethany Funk, and Madison Mogen, or Maddie as they called her. But it wasn't uncommon for other people
to be there or like staying the night, like Xana's boyfriend Ethan Chapin, and Kaylee, who is always referred to as a
roommate because she was shortly before this, but she had actually just moved out because she was graduating early.
She was only there visiting her best friend Maddie that weekend. But they hadn't filled her room yet, so there
still is a Kaylee's room. >> I guess I didn't realize that. I know. So, I don't think Dylan knew exactly who
was even in the house that morning. So, she starts calling her roommates one by one, and I'm not sure why, but actually
her roommate Bethany had called Dylan a few minutes earlier. Maybe she heard something in the house, too, and wanted
to check in with Dylan. But Dylan didn't answer that one. She's like calling around one by one. The phone's ringing
and ringing and ringing. None of the roommates are answering. So, finally Dylan does call Bethany back. You see,
they both come home separately at around 1:00 a.m. Bethany picks up. She is at home, too. And I don't know what they
talk about for the 41 seconds that call is logged. But when it ends, Dylan starts shooting off texts to Bethany,
starting at 4:22 a.m. >> And was Bethany's room on her same floor or a different one? So, this house has
three floors. So, the front door to the home is technically in the basement. That's where Bethany's room is. And then
on the second level, you have Xana and Dylan's rooms. And then on the third were Maddie and Kaylee. Okay, I think I
have it. >> Yeah, so she is firing off text after text to Bethany, and she's telling her
what she saw, what she heard, that no one else is answering. She's super confused, really freaked out. And she
probably has at least some wave of relief, the fact that like she's getting a hold of Bethany. Bethany is at least
responding. And Bethany says, "Come to my room." This is over text. "Run." Now, Dylan doesn't even know if that guy
is still there or if he's gone, but she bolts to the basement, and the pair lock
themselves in Bethany's room, and they keep trying other roommates unsuccessfully until they eventually
both fall asleep. And I know so many people had just a field day with this early on. Like they couldn't wrap their
heads around why neither of these girls would just call the police. I know. And listen, I'll admit early on, I had a
hard time wrapping my brain around it, too. But empathy, I think, is something you have to train into yourself, work at
constantly. So, before you go writing the comment or like posting the thing, you got to like sit back, make sure you
take in the facts, put yourself in someone else's shoes, too, man, because like these are technically adults, right?
Like in terms of being able to vote or get drafted for war. But Bethany and Dylan were both 21. And I
thought I was invincible then. Like it was literally not in my realm of possible thinking that I would ever, in
a million bazillion years, be at the center of what would become one of the biggest true crime cases in the nation,
probably for a generation. Strange man in my house or not, you think of every other possible scenario under the sun
before the worst one. And I mean, it was a Saturday night in college. The university had just had this big
football game. Maybe someone could have had a guest over. Well, and on top of that, they're young women. As women,
we're constantly being told like we're overreacting. Don't make such a big deal about things.
>> Yeah, and your other roommate is okay. Whoever this was, he walked right past
you, didn't even flinch. So, maybe everyone else is just sleeping. After all, it's almost 4:30 in the morning
now. When the pair wakes up the next morning, they start like getting on their phones.
Dylan is on social media a bit, but there is still enough fear lingering that even in the daylight, they don't
want to just go roaming the house alone. I know Dylan texts her dad more than once that morning. Bethany calls her
parents more than once. And I'm not exactly sure why they called or if their parents picked up. I'm thinking maybe
they called to tell them that they thought something was off about the night before. But eventually, Dylan
calls her friend Emily, telling her that they think something weird happened last
night, and she asked her to come over and help, and bring her boyfriend. They want to figure out why the housemates
aren't responding. So, Emily says, "Yeah, fine. I'll come over." She brings her boyfriend Hunter and a roommate
Josie, too. But honestly, they're not taking it too seriously because apparently, Dylan was one to scare
easily, and she'd been freaked out before in the house, which when I talk about sitting back and
waiting for the facts, >> Yeah, I never knew that piece. Same. So, she's been freaked out before, and
before everything was fine. This time was going to be different, though. Dylan and Bethany are on the bottom
floor waiting for them when their friends arrive. And they all decide that Hunter is going to lead the way. He's
already in Xana's room by the time Emily's reaching the second floor. And Emily just sees Hunter like turn around,
come toward her, and he's like pushing her out of the house, and he's like, "Call 911. Tell them there is an
unconscious person." And I give him a ton of credit because even while trying to process what it was he just walked
into, which was far more than just an unconscious person, he was still thinking about how to protect everyone
else from what he just saw. So, it is 11:55 a.m. when Dylan calls 911. Here are parts of that call.
911, location of your emergency? Hi, something is happening Something is happening in our house. We
don't know what. What is the address of the emergency? 1122 WHAT IS THE REST OF THE ADDRESS?
OH, King's Road. Okay. And is that a house or an apartment? It's a house. Can you repeat the address to make sure
that I have it right? I'll talk to you guys. We're um We live at the white, so we're next to
them. And tell me exactly what's going on. Um one of our One of the roommates is
passed out, and she was drunk last night, and she's not waking up. Okay. Oh, and they saw some man in their
house last night. Yeah, he was Hi, this is the And are you with the patient? Okay, I need someone to keep
the phone. Stop passing it around. Can I just tell you what happened, pretty much? What is going on currently?
Is someone passed out right now? I don't really know, but pretty much at 4:00 a.m. Okay, I need to know what's on
right now if someone is passed out. Can you find that out? Yeah, I'll come. Come
on, you got to go check. Hello? Hello? Okay, I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've
talked to four different people. Sorry, they just gave me the phone. Is she breathing? She won't
Hello? Is she breathing? No. Okay. The Moscow Police Department arrives on the scene pretty quickly and already
there's a crowd gathering outside the house. There's Dylan, Bethany, their friends who they called, and some more
students who know the crew. They're all standing by waiting to hear that everything's okay. But as we know,
police don't find an unconscious woman. What they see, the scene that Hunter saw,
is very bloody. According to a new book that we got access to, The Idaho Four by
James Patterson and Vicki Ward, which had a ton of information about this case, Xana and Ethan are found together
in her room on the second floor. It looks like Xana was attacked right at the door of her room. Like she is laying
on the ground at her door. Maybe she'd been like backing up into the room when she was attacked, I don't know, but she
had stab wounds from some kind of what they call an edged weapon, and she clearly tried to protect herself from
the attacker's weapon because her fingers are nearly severed. The Idaho Four book says that Ethan is laying on
the bed behind her, and he's been stabbed, too. But there have been rumors that I have
seen that his legs were also like the word that keeps getting used is carved, and this isn't stated in the
affidavit that I have seen, but there is a portion of that document where they're talking about finding Ethan, and
it's been redacted, and it is speculated that is where that detail is discussed or where this comes from. But again, no
one has gone on record stating that as fact. Right. And were both of them clothed? I think so. Nothing in any of
the records says anything about them being undressed or anything like that. >> Okay. Now, on the third floor of the
house, police check Kaylee's room, but only her dog is in there. He's unharmed. But it's in Maddie's room where they
find the two best friends laying together sharing a bed, which probably wasn't uncommon since they'd been
inseparable since childhood. Both have been stabbed. And in an interview with ABC News, Kaylee's mother, Kristi, says
that Kaylee was found like sitting up and had defensive wounds. And on the family's Facebook page, they also say
that she had been beaten in the face and head, so she likely fought for her life.
So, then did he attack Maddie first? Like while they were still sleeping? I don't know that for sure. Like we only
know about Kaylee's wounds because her family has talked about them publicly. No one has ever spoken about Maddie's
wounds in detail, so she might very well have them, too. Maybe not. I can't say one way or another. All I know is that
according to a press release from the Moscow police, {quote} some, but not all of them have defensive wounds.
And they did say that they believe that they were all asleep when the killer entered the home. And the two of them in
this room were both clothed, too. There's nothing in any of the documents about them being undressed.
>> Okay, same as before. >> Yeah, and it doesn't seem like the killer spent any time with them. So,
right away, this is feeling more like a blitz attack more than anything else. No
one is bound, no one has been sexually assaulted, nothing appears to have been staged or taken,
but something was left behind by the killer, seemingly unintentionally. A tan leather knife sheath.
And finding that knife sheath marked the beginning of the end for the killer. A 7-in blade was never found inside the
house or outside, either, when they searched the perimeter of the home and the trash out on the street. But police
and the pathologist would later become confident that some, if not all of the victims' wounds, were caused by, if not
that specific knife, one a lot like it. And are these types of knives common? I mean, ish. Like they're used by the
military, they're used by hunters, knife enthusiasts, like that sort of thing. >> They're common among people who use
knives. >> Yeah, but definitely not something that like any of these kids in this house
were known to have, so they do think that the killer brought this with him, but then actually took the knife itself
back with him. Now, investigators sent a good amount of evidence from the house off to the lab, including fingernail
clippings, hair, but the major things they note is that there was a shoe print outside of
Dylan's door that likely came from a Vans style shoe. And they found this It was invisible to the naked eye, I think,
cuz they used this dye that reacts to body fluid or blood to get this print. So, it wasn't like a ton of of blood or
fluid or whatever, but this print is right in alignment with where Dylan said that she saw the masked man, so they
feel like this is his. They also find a blood spot on the handrail between the first and second floor, and then they
find a black glove outside the home. Now, police know that there is no sign of forced entry into the home, but that
doesn't mean that this masked man was let in because they learned that he walked in
through the second floor glass sliding door, the very one that he was heading toward after he passed Dylan. So, it
sounds like maybe that had been left unlocked. And listen, Moscow is considered a rural college town, one
where, at least before November of 2022, it wasn't a big deal to not lock your doors, according to the One Night in
Idaho docuseries. But even then, you have to be thinking that the killer knew one, maybe all of them,
knew that the door was sometimes left unlocked, or at the very minimum knew enough about the kind of vibe towards
safety that he knew he could get in. >> What? Like I I would think he would have
cased the place first, though. >> Yeah, and I was going to say even like the very nature of this crime feels
personal, right? Like it feels targeted. And they don't think that this guy was just looking for any house to walk into
that night. Like he was looking for that house. Yeah. Or maybe, more specifically, someone in that house.
Yeah, the fact that he left two of them alive in the house makes you think it was about one or more of the four who
were attacked, right? >> Exactly. Yeah, but And by the way, at this point, those two survivors, they
still don't know what's fully going on or even the extent of it. Like all they know is what they told 911.
And this is kind of the wild part to me. So, about an hour after police initially
showed up, the University of Idaho blast what they call a vandal alert out to the
students' cell phones. Think of it like a safety announcement. It says that Moscow PD is investigating a homicide on
King Road near the campus. Everyone should stay away from the area and shelter in place. And then another
vandal alert comes through. This one says that police are investigating the deaths of four people.
And that is how Maddie, Xana, Ethan, and Kaylee's friends, who are sitting outside the house still waiting for any
news about what's happening inside, that is how they learn that their friends were killed.
God, imagine going from thinking your friend's passed out to realizing that four of your friends have
been murdered. >> Murdered. And finding out from text message blast from your school.
>> can't. I don't know how they react in that moment or what the scene outside of
the house looks like that afternoon as that news not just rippled through the crowd, but like came crashing down all
at once. Like it had to have been chaotic. Which might be why police start making some moves quickly. Like they
need to regain control of the situation. Bethany and Dylan and some of the other
students go to the police station to get formal statements taken, and police officially release the names of the
students who were killed. 21-year-old Kaylee Goncalves, 21-year-old Madison Mogen, 20-year-old Xana Kernodle, and
20-year-old Ethan Chapin. But try as they might, control was a hard thing to have.
Day one, reporters begin flooding to the area while many of the students head out
because they're understandably scared. Like the university eventually tells students they can attend class remotely.
And the reporting that is coming out at this point doesn't have a ton of new information. Like no one knew much in
those early days. Like it had to have been terrifying. But that void of information just drove wild speculation.
I mean, people online are full-on blaming Dylan and Bethany for the murders like at this point already. And
police do try to like grab onto the reins again by holding a press conference. They say that they believe
this was an isolated, targeted attack on the students, but then they also acknowledge that they don't have a
suspect and they can't say that there's no threat to the community, and they just ask the community to remain
vigilant. >> Which, with that, I'd be leaving the school, too. >> So many people did, which like, yes, I'm
out. I'm pulling my kids out. For damn sure, yeah. Safety first, but this only made things harder for police because
these are also the people that police need to be questioning, and now they're no longer in like one concentrated
place. >> Right, they're going everywhere. And this is also probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest case that's
ever hit this department. Oh, and they and they know it, too. Like they're not playing the ego game here. They're
bringing in help pretty quickly from like a local county sheriff's office, from the FBI. And in doing so, they are
starting to piece together what everyone in the King Road house was doing on the
night of the murders, right? Like, divide and conquer. But, God bless Kaylee's sister. She was not about to
just like leave it to police to figure out. She was apparently getting zero details from police. Just that her
sister was gone. The end. So, she's like, "Eff it." She rolled up her sleeves and went to work herself. She
told CBS News that she got into her sister's call log and started calling everyone in there. And she found out
that her sister went to this local bar called The Corner Club. Then, she got a ride to this food truck. And her sister
talked to a driver who gave them that ride there. And he told her that the food truck, this place known as The Grub
Truck, had a camera. And so, she's actually the one who got that video footage. I feel like we all saw this
video footage early on. I didn't realize she got that. But she saw it first. She
sees her sister and Maddie together on the camera. And she sees them, you know, get their
food or whatever, then get into this car together, but alone, just the two of them. And police confirm that the driver
took them home. He dropped them off at the house at around 1:56 a.m. God bless sisters, man. Listen, if this isn't
reason enough for everyone to get their if I go missing folders in order, I don't know what is. Like, make it easy
on your sister, your mother, your father, your friend. Like, they're going to need to get your call logs and text
in a time of emergency. So, back to the timeline. According to the Idaho 4 book,
Dylan tells police that she heard Kaylee and Maddie chatting in the living room.
And then she heard them walk up to the third floor before she fell asleep. She didn't hear Ethan and Xana get home
though at 1:45. But based on what Bethany told police, they know that's when they got back from hanging out at
Ethan's frat house on campus. So, we've got everyone known to be back at the house by 2:00 a.m.
But they're not all sleeping just yet. There is still activity on Kaylee and Maddie's cell phones. Though it does
start to die down as the hours tick by. By 4:00 a.m., it seems like all the housemates are in their room. And Xana
receives a DoorDash order around this time, too. 4:00 in the morning. Her phone shows that she may have been
scrolling on TikTok for like about 12 more minutes after the DoorDash delivery. And according to the police
affidavit in this case, not long after that, Dylan comes face to face with the killer. It makes me think that he
started at the top floor, right? Killed Maddie and Kaylee, then came down, killed Xana and Ethan after.
I know you said Dylan thought it was Maddie who said, "Someone's here." And maybe it was. But I also wonder like,
what if it Could have been Ethan. >> like saying that to Ethan. >> Or Ethan to Xana. Listen, I could spend
20 minutes spiraling about this, but like, I'm going to keep it short and sweet to what we do know as fact in this
moment. For the longest time, no one knew what order it happened in. But just a couple of weeks ago in court,
prosecutors say that the way you kind of laid it out is exactly what they think happened. That basically, the killer
came into the home, went straight upstairs first, killed Maddie and Kaylee, then as he was coming
downstairs, he encountered Xana. Maybe getting her food, maybe eating it somewhere else. I mean, I know there was
a Jack in the Box bag with her name on it seen in photos in the kitchen. But it was also really messy kitchen. I can't
say for sure that that bag was from that night. But it's possible. I mean, there
are still so many details we don't have. But he encounters her somewhere. Though
we know she is at least in her doorway by the time he kills her, and then Ethan.
But then, why leave Dylan untouched? I mean, we know she like had this like encounter with him, too.
>> Why? Right? Like, that is our big question. Was it the way that they responded diff- like, did they respond
differently when they encountered him and it got different reactions from him? Was it something else?
Now, despite police over and over again saying that they do not think Dylan or Bethany were involved, I told you,
people online were brutal. They didn't understand how Dylan could see someone in the house in this like
mask and not say anything. And they really didn't understand how the pair could like wake up the next morning and
then be on like social media and calling people who weren't the police. And I don't think they liked the way that
Dylan's statements or descriptions of the suspect developed over time. Like, earliest statement she gives, she
describes this guy as not insanely tall, which is like very vague. And then later, she gives an actual range. It was
like 5'10" to 6 ft. And then it's not till the third sit-down that she describes what is now infamously
synonymous with this case, the bushy eyebrows. But experts have said that Bethany and Dylan were likely
experiencing a trauma response. And by the way, we're old. Like, 20-something-year-olds do a lot of their
communications with friends on social media. So, it is very possible that's how they were reaching out to their
friends in that morning trying to get people over or to find out things like as they were having this trauma
response. Or even like one of the avenues. I know for me like, I have conversations with you on social media
and on text. And on Snapchat. Yeah, there's a million different ways to communicate. And if you're trying to get
a hold of people, why not try every avenue? Right. And as far as like things changing, like, listen, I think she was
still processing it all over time. Like, when like, when she came in one time, she even says that she remembers that
this guy was carrying a vacuum-type object in his hand, which like What would that have been?
>> I don't know. We're not sure. Like, Dylan tells detectives she really didn't know how much of what she was seeing was
reality, what was a dream. >> And how much her mind is trying to >> Fill in the gaps.
>> fill in the blanks. We talked about that all the time. >> Yeah, according to the Idaho 4 book, she
even tells cops that she initially thought that the guy was like a firefighter. When you talk about filling
in gaps. >> Right. Which obviously you're like, well, in all black with a mask on.
>> It doesn't make sense, but I told you like, what's what's every story you can
tell yourself except for the worst one? >> Exactly. >> Trauma response. Like, the brain is wild
when it comes to trauma. But the internet does not care. And it does not stop. They keep coming up with wild theories
about not even just Dylan or Bethany, like the whole friend group, especially those closest to the victims. Including
the ones who came over in the morning to check out the house, Emily and Hunter. And then people were also suspicious of
Maddie's boyfriend, Jake, and then Kaylee's ex-boyfriend, Jack. Everyone's getting attacked on social
media. People were claiming that they must have been involved. And I think it was people just trying to piece together
what could have happened with like almost zero information or just like you get like this itty-bitty piece of the
puzzle with zero context. >> It's kind of another situation of just filling in the blanks.
>> Right. Cuz like, one of the things we knew early on or early-ish was that Kaylee called her ex-boyfriend, Jack, a
few times on the night of the murders. And so, some people online thought that was odd. I think that's why he comes up
so much. But it seems like Kaylee was just like, probably just drunk dialing him with Maddie next to her.
And when we see all the phone records, like when those come out in like late December, again, this is where like all
the speculation comes from because it shows that Dylan was also like deleting pictures on her phone and editing videos
from 5:00 a.m. to 6:30 a.m. And at this time, she's already in Bethany's room. Now, she stops using her phone until
like 8:05 a.m. when she opens Instagram for a bit. But she's also checking Ethan
and Xana's Snapchat locations. But to me, that makes sense if she's wondering if they're home. What the full picture
is, what it means or doesn't mean, we probably would have gotten in a trial and may get when the gag order is
lifted. But for now, spoiler alert, we're about to get to the point where police know who did it. And it's not any
of these kids. Police determine that none of them have anything to do with this crime. But even though, again, even
though we have a person, even though police have said that, I don't even know if that has stopped Dylan and Bethany
from getting hate mail and death threats. Imagine having your friends murdered in
the house that you were in with them. And then being accused of doing it yourself while you're trying to
grieve and deal with survivor's guilt. >> know. Just being that young and trying
to get on with your like, get on with your life to a certain extent while processing all that trauma.
>> Yeah, I don't know what life after that looks like. And it is worth mentioning.
I mean, we our team tried to reach out to Dylan and Bethany, but we didn't hear back.
And by the way, like, I think the friends got the hardest part of this all. But there were tons of people who
were just getting lit up online by others who had no business playing detective. And it made life very hard
for people. Like, there was this guy who was seen in that video footage from the food truck
talking to Maddie and Kaylee. This guy's wearing like a hood, whatever. It's like cold November
weather. But everyone decides that hoodie guy is guilty and did this. Except he didn't. Police determined he
was someone that they knew who they were able to clear of involvement. Wasn't there even like a professor at the
university who got accused of being involved early on? Like, I just remember Oh, yeah.
>> Something about how upside down this accusation turned their life with like zero to back it up.
>> Professor Rebecca Scofield, who teaches at the University of Idaho. So, this one
was like, I remember this vividly. There was this TikToker and self-proclaimed psychic, Ashley Guillard, who accused
this professor of having a secret romantic relationship with one of the victims. I don't know where that came
from, but Guillard was basically saying that the professor ordered the murders. And I mean, there was absolutely no
evidence to back this up. And Scofield actually ended up filing a defamation lawsuit against that Tiktoker and it was
a saga in court with Gillard trying to defend her claims by noting that she got other crime scene details right but the
court ruled early on that Gillard did in fact defame Scofield not surprising. >> Yeah. And they're actually this is still
ongoing they're waiting on a trial to see how much she's going to have to pay her. But again I think that's like one
of the most extreme ones but there were endless other stories that people were coming up with. I mean there's rumors
that drugs were involved. There were also rumblings of Kaylee having a stalker but the Moscow PD looks into all
of it and nothing comes of any of those rumors. But still police follow each one
of these even the far-fetched ones. But when nothing pans out they start scouring the area near King Road for
surveillance footage. Have they already sent the knife sheaths and stuff off for
forensic testing by this point? >> Oh yeah. All of this is happening really fast like they're not just going to like
hold off and wait for that to come back though. I mean know they're working against the clock when it comes to an
active investigation and they want to get everything they can as fast as they can. And again not above asking for
help. So they actually lean on Moscow residents and local businesses to look at their own video footage and bring
them anything that they think is sus and they end up getting footage that shows a
white Hyundai Elantra near the King Road house a little before 3:30 a.m. on the night
of the murders and then they keep seeing it until like 4:20 and there's this weird pattern of
activity like the driver just keeps passing the house over and over again. I mean it's chilling when you know what
happened there and by the way the house is on a dead-end street so anyone passing it this many times is doing it
intentionally. What's even more chilling is at exactly 4:04 a.m. this car is seen
stopping and turning around and it looks like this person tries to park on the street behind the house in
an area that can't be seen on surveillance. So we don't know what happens cuz a little bit of time goes by and then at
4:20 a.m. this car is seen one final time speeding away from the house. And what time did the DoorDash food get
dropped off to Xana? Was it right in that same window? 4 a.m. Yeah and at some point they actually did find that
DoorDash driver and she says that she parked right next to this white car. Maybe even saw the killer according to
ABC News but exactly what she said if she said more than that hasn't been fully released. I think they were
at least up till this point trying to keep her story locked up for a potential trial but I wonder if more's going to
come out because the timing is wild to me. Mhm. And I mean to be clear she's been totally
clear. She like just dropped off the food and left but Right but was he already in the house? Was he still in
his car? >> Exactly like was it just lucky timing that the DoorDash driver didn't see or hear more
or spook him or what Did he know it was coming? Like did he have to wait for it?
Like there's all the questions? Yeah. >> Yeah like how regularly was DoorDash ordered at 4 a.m. on a Saturday night
out right? Like I know my DoorDash account sees a lot of action usually at certain times like
maybe he this guy like he knew to wait. >> Or maybe he was just passing the house
all those times until he saw the lights go out or something too. He's waiting for something. Now police don't have
good enough video footage to see this guy or even see the plates on the car and they couldn't make contact with that
DoorDash driver for a while to even get a description or anything from her. So they did the best they could with what
they had in those like immediate first couple of days. So on November 25th this is 12 days
after the murder Moscow police ask all law enforcement to be on the lookout for this car which they only know to be a
2011 to 2013 white Hyundai Elantra. And while they wait for responses they start running down leads that could
maybe connect someone to the murder weapon. Completely unaware though that within 4
days Washington State University Police in Pullman Washington come across a white
Hyundai Elantra that kind of fits the description they got on that bolo. So they ran the plates but for whatever
reason maybe because this car they're running the plates on is 2 years newer than what they were looking for this
one's a 2015 they don't pass that tip on to Moscow police. They just make a note
of it in their own records that says they ran this and it was registered to someone who lives in a student apartment
at the school. Someone named Brian Kohberger. And that student apartment that he lives
in it's only a 19-minute drive to 1122 King Road. Painfully unaware of the development
made over in Washington police are coming at the investigation from every other angle they can think of.
That sheath that they found had a serial number on it so they start serving search warrants to Amazon and eBay
trying to track down the buyer and that's when they get a good news bad news break in the case. Good news maybe
you won't need to rely on this car or the eBay search warrant or whatever to lead to the killer. Lab testing is done
and there is an unknown male profile DNA on the knife sheath but oh wait bad news
actually maybe you need to do that stuff because we put that into CODIS and there isn't a match.
>> Okay but good news IGG exists. Totally and by the way they also like cross-reference with like the people in
this case not there's either. So they do they jump to IGG investigative genetic genealogy. Now for those of you who
aren't like totally read up on this the DNA profile that you pull for CODIS is different than what you need for IGG. So
even though this is an exciting viable option that most investigations didn't even have just a couple of years before
this it's also going to take a minute because they have to start the testing process all over again starting from
trying to pull a viable snip profile uploading that to public databases like JedMatch and then working a family tree
backwards from Lord only knows what distant relative. >> Right. So it's not for another month on
December 19th that Moscow police hear Brian Kohberger's name for the very first time and when they start looking
into this guy I can only imagine how elated they are when the lead investigator on this case Detective
Corporal Brett Payne sees Kohberger's driver's license photo and determines he looks a lot like Dylan's description.
Even has those bushy eyebrows she mentioned. And it just keeps getting better when they see what car he drives
a white 2015 Hyundai Elantra. And it must just feel like icing on the cake when they search surveillance
footage around Kohberger's apartment in Pullman on the night of the murders and lo and behold it shows him leaving
in said white car at 2:44 a.m. heading south on State Road 270 toward Moscow. This is it like this is their guy.
There is just one problem. Their guy booked it out of town 6 days before they realized who he was.
They find out that on December 13th Kohberger and his dad took a cross-country drive from Washington
State to Albrightsville Pennsylvania where his parents live. So his dad flew out there to make the
drive. >> Yeah. And was this planned? Like I'm curious what his dad was thinking when
they made this trip because it is a it's a commitment of a trip. >> It's it's weird right? Like court
documents say that the reason he's making this trip is he's headed home for winter break. So I don't know maybe he
told his dad that he wanted his car for break dad wanted to make sure that he made the trip safely. They wanted
bonding time. I don't know but even a cop that pulled them over along the way thought it was weird. They got pulled
over twice actually in Indiana of all places like it's a little weird that I feel who's your pride. But they're just
like pulled over in like routine stops and in one of them there's body cam footage and you can hear the trooper ask
Kohberger and his dad like where you going? And you can't really make out what they tell the trooper. I mean we
know where they're going right? I assume they tell them Pennsylvania and the trooper jokingly asked like are you guys
scared of airplanes or like Right like it is a long trip. >> Yeah but like this the stop doesn't
result in anything they're just let go with no issues. There are theories online though from internet sleuths
after the fact wondering if maybe he was using this time to dump evidence. There
is no evidence of this and it might be as simple as the dude was just going about life as normal and to him it
doesn't matter that he just slaughtered four kids and wrecked four families even
more friends and loved ones. It was Christmas break and he planned to drive home.
I also wonder if he was wanting to get his car out of the area. But before police just show up at his
door in Pennsylvania they want their ducks in a row. So a bunch of things happen in quick succession starting with
learning everything they can about this guy. What they learn is that Brian Kohberger was in Washington State
University's PhD program. And for those crime junkies who are coming in fresh to
this welcome to one of the most messed up parts about this case. He was getting his PhD in criminology.
And he'd even earned a master's degree in criminal justice from DeSales University in Pennsylvania earlier that
year. Where he studied under serial killer expert Dr. Katherine Ramsland, who wrote the biography of Dennis Rader,
better known as the BTK killer. Yeah. Even applied for an internship with the Pullman Police Department in 2022. But
this is where things start to get eerie. So, they find out that as part of a research project he did at DeSales, he
set up this online survey. And Brian Kohberger was listed as the student investigator.
And listen, I'm going to post this whole thing because it is fascinating, and I read every single
line, but I know that we're on the clock here, and you guys have already given me
like a ton of time, so I'm going to give you the highlights. Here's some of what
it says. Please note that the following survey asks you to detail your most recent
criminal offense, whether you were caught or not. In the event that you were not charged, convicted, or
incarcerated for the offense, you may still participate in this research. Welcome to the research study. We are
interested in understanding how emotions and psychological traits influence the decision-making involved in committing a
crime. After completing a series of background questions, you will be presented with
open-ended questions relevant to the most recent crime you were involved in, and asked to detail your thoughts,
emotions, and actions from the beginning to the end of the crime commission process.
So, then it goes on, it gives instructions about filling it out, how long it should take, and then it goes
into the questions. Some of which are, how did you travel to and enter the location that the crime
occurred? After arriving, what steps did you take prior to locating the victim or
target, i.e., person or object? Please detail your thoughts and feelings. Why did you choose that victim or target
over others? And before leaving the scene, the crime scene, is there anything else you did? And by
the way, this whole thing gets posted months before the murders. Listen, his professor at the time, who only knew him
through an online class, said that it it, being the survey, it falls square into the type of research that they
would do in the school's master program. So, she didn't think anything was weird
about it. But she did know that he didn't actually use any of the data from the questionnaire.
So, like, did no one answer? Was it really data gathering for personal use? Will we
ever know? I mean, I'm sure police know. They had to have collected all his devices and talked to the school and
>> Oh, I'm sure because like I know they went through a lot of his digital stuff
starting, I know, with phone records. And let me talk about those. So, Kohberger's phone records match the
surveillance footage outside of his home in Pullman. This shows he leaves around
the same time. This one tracks it at 2:47 a.m. the night of the murders. But then, his phone suddenly goes off
the grid. Like he turned it off or put it in airplane mode. Sounds like the criminology student didn't want anyone
tracking his movements. >> Yeah, and so his phone stays dark all the way up until 4:48 a.m. when it comes
back online and pings, putting him on State Highway 95 south of Moscow. Now, his phone is traveling
south, and he takes this like long way back to Pullman. And by 5:30 a.m., his phone is home.
And you said from his place to the King's Road house is like 15, 20 minutes? >> 20 minutes tops. Like, when you're
taking highways with cameras, 20 minutes. But if you say went the back roads that are darker, that don't have
cameras, less traveled, yep. Something else they see on his phone records gives me full body chills.
5 hours after the murders, Kohberger's phone leaves his home again and travels back to Moscow.
And not just back to the town in general, his phone pings the cell towers covering
the King Road house between 9:12 a.m. and 9:21 a.m. I never knew that. So, I know. I didn't like till I got deep in
this. So, he returned to the scene of the crime. It's possible. Mhm. And like I I'm just like thinking back, all of
their friends are out in front of that house at that time. >> No, they're not. They don't come out
until later. They're still Bethany and Dylan are still in the room. I know. And listen, I have a zillion thoughts about
this. Like, at some point he had to have realized that he was missing the knife sheath,
like with a serial number on it that he bought with his own name. So, would he have gone back to try and see
if he could get that? But maybe there was like, again, they're not outside yet. There's no activity around the
house necessarily at that moment. >> have to imagine that like It's 9:00 in the morning. Like, things are happening,
people are out. Like, and so maybe he didn't have the opportunity. Or maybe he was just going back hoping to catch a
glimpse of a crime scene, which But like you said, it wasn't a crime scene to anyone
else yet. >> And how long did his phone put him there? It was just those like 9 minutes.
So, I don't know. Again, what was he trying to get in? I don't feel like someone who would commit a crime like
this like is above just sadistically watching from the sidelines, like wanting to see the chaos you created.
But you also can't just like hang around and wait for it to happen. So, 9 minutes, whatever he's doing, he gives
it 9 minutes, and then he drives back to Pullman, to his house, and then takes a
selfie with like a thumbs up in his mirror bathroom. Now, it's unclear if he was like in his
apartment the entire time after that or what, but later that afternoon at 12:46 p.m., his phone shows up around like a
50-minute drive away from his place near a coffee stand in Clarkston. Then he goes to a grocery store nearby. Though
police know that this area is by two large bodies of water, Clearwater River and the Snake River.
So, again, like, are we throwing things away? We still can't find the murder weapon. Around 5:30 p.m., he is again
back on those unlit back roads in Washington that can lead to Moscow. And then again,
his phone goes for about 3 hours. And what he's doing in that time, I don't know. I don't know if we'll ever
know. Was it the same thing he was trying to do earlier in the day? But my gut tells me that these moves were
carefully planned because police can see in the phone data that Kohberger's cell
phone wasn't just near King Road on the morning after the murders. His phone pinged on the cell towers covering that
area approximately 23 times in the months leading up to November 13th, starting all the way back in July. And
it was always between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 4:00 a.m. So, he kind of was casing the place. Yep. This is what I'm
saying, this home was his target. But still, why? Why this specific home? And what
set this into motion then? Clearly, this was a plot months in the making, right?
Like, his phone starts pinging there in July. And when they see his online shopping records, they know that he
bought that knife on Amazon 8 months before the murders. And then, by the way, he searched for one just like it
days after the murder. So, he's probably trying to like replace the one he got rid of. And again, I know we don't know
if this like online school survey that he didn't use the data of has anything to do with anything, but it feels like
everything starts like a few months before this, right? Like, that's when that gets posted, too. So, police feel
like they are on the edge of an arrest now. All roads lead to Bryan Kohberger. So, that's when they start surveilling
his parents' home in Pennsylvania. He's still there on winter break. According to ksl.com, they see Kohberger clean his
car from top to bottom. They apparently see him wearing surgical gloves at some point, like multiple times, which like
odd. >> Little off, yeah. So, when the family puts their trash on the curb, law enforcement swoops in to grab it and
send it to the Idaho State Lab for testing. So, by the way, DNA testing can happen fast, now we know. The very next
day, DNA from a Q-tip in that trash definitively gets linked to the dad of whoever's DNA was on the knife sheath.
So, on December 30th, at around 12:30 a.m., snipers surround the Kohberger family home in Pennsylvania, and
Pennsylvania's CERT team breaks down the door and takes Kohberger into custody on
suspicion of four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary. Why the burglary charge? I thought
nothing was taken. >> Nothing was, that's that's just standard in Idaho. If you enter a home to commit
a theft or any kind of felony, you get a burglary charge, even if nothing was taken or you didn't complete whatever
the felony was. So, once they have him in custody, their work is far from over. They got to
collect his DNA for a direct comparison, like cuz you can't convict him on dad's
connecting match, which they do, and no surprise here. It's his. Now, they search his car,
which they collect as well, for evidence, but it's super clean. Yeah, they watched him scrub it from top to
bottom. I what? I I literally wanted to pull my hair out when I heard that part forever ago. But listen, I think they
were playing the long game here. I guess they didn't want to like blow their case
by stopping him from cleaning his car. Like, they had plenty of other evidence against him if they played their cards
right. So, car, no go. But they also search his parents' home. They find a knife. It doesn't end up being the
knife, so no real help there. They also collect black gloves, a black face mask,
a black hat, Glock 40-caliber magazines, and like a lot of criminology books. Was
it the same type of mask that Dylan described? And like the gloves, were they the same like the one that was in
the bushes? I don't know. It it like when I look at the stuff, it like doesn't isn't totally clear on the mask.
I do know that police find out that he purchased a balaclava months before the murders. Again, months, it's like all
happening at the same time. And that like that they have purchase records of, it's the same kind of black mask that
like covers your whole face. And that one matched Dylan's initial description. So, we know he had one or or at least
purchased one. I don't know if that's the one they found. And as far as the gloves go,
and this is actually an interesting monkey wrench. I need listeners to tell me what they think this means,
respectfully. Like theories only, no accusations. >> Please. So, I don't know if it was the
same type of glove. It's not listed in any reports. But what is listed is that the glove at King Road, that got tested
for DNA alongside the knife sheath, along with the spot of blood on the handrail.
>> Yeah. The blood spot on the handrail and the DNA in the glove, those came back as
not Bryan Kohberger. Okay, then whose was it? I don't know. Like apparently whatever that DNA they
got from those wasn't eligible for CODIS, which could have been for a number of reasons. Like we know there's a bunch of
specific rules about the profile and how >> It has to like meet certain qualifications and specifications. I
also know like not only does the profile have to be good enough, but like it has
to meet like you have to be able to like say that this was related to the crime.
And maybe they like don't know that for sure. Like blood in the house feels like
probably >> But maybe it doesn't tie like the glove like out Anyways, so I don't know why it wasn't
included in CODIS. But court records show I mean I know investigators already had Kohberger's name and DNA by the like
the point that they learned about this other stuff. >> Mhm. But Detective Payne obviously has
been asked about this. And like court records showed the answer he gave as as to why not CODIS. And like to me, I
don't really fully understand it. Um he said that his quote understanding was that entering a new DNA profile into
CODIS would get rid of the one that was already in there from the sheath. And they decided to address the other DNA
down the road only if they needed to. So, okay. Which like doesn't I think you can enter two. But like I I don't know
for sure. >> Seems like we should be able to enter more than one profile. >> were like not in this crime, but like
I'm trying I'm thinking back to old crimes if there was like more than one culprit. Or more than one piece of
evidence. I don't know. Uh okay. Uh all that aside, these other two items with DNA profiles on
them, the glove, the spot on the handrail, >> Mhm. those were the same profile on both?
>> No, so uh no. That would I think be even more suspicious. These are two separate
unidentified male profiles. >> Oh. >> Still unidentified to this day. So, sorry, we got a little bit sidetracked
of like all of that. But we're back to the search warrant. So, they also search his apartment. They search an office he
had at Washington State. They're looking at all his devices, cell phone, computer, hard drive. They take a vacuum
container into evidence. >> Wait, so did Dylan really see him holding a vacuum? I don't think so. Police at that point
think that Dylan probably was just trying to like like we said earlier make sense of what was I don't I don't think
it was a legit vacuum that she saw. >> Mhm. But I'm just sure they're taking it wanting to analyze what's inside of the
vacuum since this is an actual vacuum container and this guy's obviously like intensely cleaning things.
>> Well, and to like check the box. She said vacuum, we have a vacuum. Yeah, also are you like sweeping out things
and there's hair or fibers or whatever. They take another black glove. They take
some receipts, parts of an uncased pillow that has stains that police describe as reddish brown and possible
animal hair among other things. I mean they are going through all of it. And they send all of it off to the lab.
And with Kohberger behind bars, on December 30th, the Pennsylvania State Police and Moscow PD announced his
arrest to the public. And later that day, his mugshot is all over the internet. Yeah, so this is one of those
cases that I had been loosely following, but wasn't tracking like super closely.
I got behind one day and it was like it got away from me. >> Yeah, I know. But I remember being
pretty floored that this arrest happened so quickly. Well, especially when like early on, like it it did seem so random.
>> came out like no one had any information. And then all of a sudden we had him. And like I was I I've seen it
go so bad so many times that I think I was a little shocked. But I think everyone was it was they were shocked,
but they were elated like great, we have this guy, we found him. But who is he? >> Mhm. And I mean Kaylee's dad, Steve
Goncalves, told Good Morning America that I mean when he saw it, he felt like this cloud was lifted off of him and his
family. Like I mean it has to feel like such a weight. Like okay, we're one step
closer. >> Mhm. But I mean we know that an arrest is only the beginning. And we know the
way that the time leading up to and at trial can become a media circus. >> Yeah, been there, done that. Her name
was Karen Read. >> Exactly. Listen, I don't know if most of the families knew what they would be in
for. I like and I'm not talking about these four. Like any family that goes through this, I don't know if you know
what you're in for unless you've already lived through it. But it doesn't matter.
At least for the Goncalves's family, they want their day in court because they want to know why this happened. So,
Kohberger has a hearing in Pennsylvania on January 3rd. He agrees to be extradited to Idaho, which happens the
next day. And then he's quickly assigned a court-appointed public defender, Kootenai County Chief Public Defender
Anne Taylor. And there's I feel like I'm full of side stories today, which is like usually not my jam, but like
>> is the case. >> There's this whole other side story that I'll summarize quickly. Basically, it
comes up that the public defender's office represented Xana's mom at some point or in a like a couple different
points, Cara Northington. But Anne Taylor argued in court that there was no conflict of interest. And because well,
she's saying that she didn't actually represent Cara herself. Her name is just on all of the paperwork in the office
because she is the chief attorney. And I'm not going to get into all of like Cara's legal stuff because she's not the
one on trial here. But this matters because Taylor had been assigned but withdrew from Cara's most recent case
the same day Kohberger appeared in court for the first time in Idaho, January 5th. So, Cara told NewsNation later that
month that she felt heartbroken because she trusted Taylor. I mean like like she's now she's not going to defend you.
She's going to go defend the guy who's accused of murdering your daughter. >> Right. Right.
Now, the thing I'll say is like since she is the chief public defender and it this is a death penalty case or
was going to be a death penalty case. >> top of the list. >> Yeah, she might have been one of the
only ones who can take on something this big. But still it has to feel like a slap in the face nonetheless, right?
Like as as a mom. So, anyways, soon after Kohberger had gotten arrested, they actually brought Dylan back in for
questioning. And she tells police that she found Kohberger's mugshot online after she heard about the arrest. But
when they ask her if she recognizes him as the guy she saw in the house, she said she doesn't know.
And she doesn't know who he is outside of this. No, like and any connection found to any of the
victims or survivors? >> Well, no, it doesn't seem like any of them knew him. And honestly,
had it not been for the sheath. This is what I'm saying with like when I saw the
arrest and when you realize what like how it happened, had it not been for the sheath, I don't know if they would have
connected him to anything inside that house. I mean his DNA isn't matched to any of like the hair that they found. No
fiber samples collected from the murder scene. And nothing in his car or house could be tied to the victims either. But
he did. He made that mistake. They've got his DNA placing him there. They've got the cell phone pings now that seem
to indicate he was canvassing the scene leading up to the murders. And that's what matters to police. So,
on May 16th, he gets officially indicted. On May 22nd, we're now in 2023, he declines to even give a plea. So, the
judge has to enter one for him, not guilty on all counts. And then a trial date gets set. And then
pushed and then pushed some more. But it looked like it was finally locked in. August 18th, 2025 was going to be
the start of opening statements. I mean we even started reporting on this story in anticipation of a trial start date.
We were even going to stream it on the Crime Junkie Jury YouTube page to keep close tabs on how it was unfolding. And
then, just weeks away from the trial start, prosecutors dropped a bomb. And I'm not kidding you when I tell you the
collective gasp in the office. Like >> Yeah. we did not see it coming. I mean listen, I like I was a little surprised
early on that we didn't start here, start at a plea deal. But like now, this close to the trial, too.
All right. Based on the state's proffer and importantly based upon defendant's uh
uh explicit admission to committing these crimes, the court finds there is a factual basis.
Therefore, uh with respect to count one, burglary felony, how do you plead, Mr. Kohberger, guilty or not guilty?
Guilty. As to count two, murder in the first degree as it relates to uh the murder of
Madison how do you plead, guilty or not guilty? Guilty. As to count three, as it
relates to murder in the first degree for the murder of Kaylee Goncalves, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?
Guilty. As to count four, the first degree murder of Xana Kernodle Kernodle, pardon me, uh human being, how
do you plead, guilty or not guilty? Guilty. As to count five, uh first degree murder
of Ethan Chapin, a being, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty? Guilty. Right.
The court will find that the defendant understands the nature of the charges and each offense and the possible
consequences to him of his guilty plea. The court finds that there is a factual basis for the plea and the finds the
defendant believes the plea to be in his best interest. I find that the plea the
plea was given freely, voluntarily, and was intelligently made. I accept the plea. I direct that it be entered.
I'll continue the matter for sentencing in this case. When Kohberger changed his plea and
admitted to killing Maddie, Xana, Ethan, and Kaylee, he was doing it in exchange
for one thing. The deal put forward to Bryan Kohberger was that if he would plead guilty to all
four counts of murder, prosecutors would take the death penalty off the table. And I was a little shocked to learn that
the families of the victims didn't know about this plea deal until like days before it was set to happen. And some of
them were understandably livid. When he was asked about the deal, Kaylee's dad, Steve, told NBC today that Idaho has
failed his whole family. I know they don't have to, but I still understand why they wouldn't go to the
families first to make sure they were okay with it. I know. Well, I and I I I thought they would.
Listen, I have I have this rule, which by the way, I do not think applies here. I'm not a prosecutor in charge of
deciding whether or not someone has their day in court, but like in my business, I say like don't ask for
someone's opinion unless you plan on really taking it or really giving it like a heavyweight in consideration.
Like if you already have your mind made up, don't make a show of including people in the process.
>> the courtesy of like saying you asked. If you're going to do what you're going
to do, just do it. >> So, if they already had their minds made up, maybe they weren't going to ask, but
it just as well could be that they had enough contact with the families to know where each one of them
stood, and they could have known that they were going to get different answers from them. Like they the families were
not all aligned. So, I don't think there was going to be one decision that pleased everyone. Like Ethan's family
had no plans to attend the trial in the first place because they didn't want to re-traumatize themselves. And they
released a statement after the news of Kohberger's plea deal saying that they support it. For them, it seems like it's
a moment of closure. And I imagine had they known a plea deal was an option that wasn't taken and then
this case was going to be made a spectacle of in their minds unnecessarily, they probably would have
been upset with that outcome. Maybe, I don't know. I just know that this isn't the first time that the families have
disagreed on how authorities handled one or more parts of the investigation. Like
for example, there was like there are certain blips in this case I just remember so vividly. One of them is when
the King Road house at the university was destroyed. So, the university actually owned the house. And after the
murders, the school had it demolished. Again, Kaylee's dad, Steve, was very vocal about his disagreement with the
decision because he thought that police should have made sure that house was preserved until the trial. But Ethan's
family supported the demolition. In the Amazon docu-series, Ethan's brother, Hunter, who by the way, Ethan
had two siblings. He was one of a set of triplets who were all at that university.
But his brother, Hunter, didn't live too far from the King Road house. He could see the house from his bedroom window.
And it was the first thing he saw when he woke up, and he just didn't want to look at it anymore. Yeah, I don't think
anyone would want that daily reminder. And like in general, as far as the trial goes, people handle grief differently. I
get just wanting the person who did it to accept responsibility and to not drag it out because
at the end of the day, nothing can bring your kid back. And it just has to hurt all the time.
For sure. And I mean, people will say like, "Oh, well, they weren't planning on going to the trial anyways." But like
think about it. You think that's going to stop them hearing about every last detail? Like ask someone in your life
who's not a crime junkie if they know about this case. They know about this case. It is everywhere. There would be
no escaping it. But for those family members who did want the trial, what they wanted was the answer to why. And
now they don't get that because along with removing the death penalty, his plea deal didn't require him to give
any details of why he did this. And so, the motive in these murders remains a big mystery throughout this
entire case. However, according to the Idaho 4 book, some family and friends of the victims
do have a theory. They believe that this was targeted, and they believe that the target was Maddie.
But why? I know police have never come out and said this. Well, here I mean, here's the thing. So, there isn't any
real evidence that's been shared with the public that proves Kohberger targeted Maddie.
But according to the book, Kohberger definitely knew who she was. Apparently, he had liked some of her Instagram
photos, even liked some of Kaylee's Instagram photos that had Maddie in them. But did he just find her online?
Or or how would he have known her in the first place even? >> I don't know. Some people who knew the
victims have suggested that maybe he dined at the restaurant that she and Xana worked at in Moscow, this place
called Mad Greek, and maybe he like became fixated on her. >> Like to kill her? Well, the answer like I feel like to
understand how we got like you got to know more about who he is to try and like wrap
your head around that because I don't think it necessarily started that way. So, people who knew him claim that he
struggled with substance use disorder throughout his early years. And by the time he got to Washington State
University for his PhD, it seems like he was somewhat of a loner who had a very clear disdain for women. He was a TA
working for a criminology class leading up to the murders, and his classmates and the students that he taught describe
his behavior toward women and comments that he made in class, they describe them all as like misogynistic and
antagonistic. And he even implied to another student that women should be housemakers and
have no business getting master's degrees. And apparently, he'd been given multiple warnings about his behavior.
But after months of this, the school did get fed up and just shortly after the murders actually, but before he was
caught, he got fired from that TA position. Like it got it got that bad. It kind of sounds like a textbook
description of like incel culture. It kind of is. And admittedly, I had like that term has
come up a ton in this case, and I had heard that term a ton in recent years. I think it gets thrown around a lot, but I
actually read the definition of it for the first time while doing this, and from you know, from Wikipedia. I didn't
go like deep deep, but like the term is associated with an online subculture of mostly male and
heterosexual people who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one.
And then they often blame or objectify and denigrate women and girls as a result. So, Patterson and Ward's book,
as well as the documentary we mentioned, and lots of experts in this case say that Kohberger
not not just that we're like talking about incel in general, but he was specifically modeling himself after a
guy named Elliot Rodger, who I wasn't super familiar with. Elliot was a 22-year-old mass murderer
who went on a stabbing and shooting spree in Isla Vista, California, targeting primarily women outside of a
sorority and the surrounding area. He killed six people, injured 14 others before taking his own life. And right
before the attacks, he had posted some YouTube videos and this 137-page manifesto titled My Twisted World. And
in all of this, he complained about how he was still a virgin, and he hated women for rejecting him. He wrote out a
detailed plan that he spent years coming up with calling the attacks the day of retribution. According to the Idaho 4
book, Kohberger even took a class taught by Dr. Ramsland at DeSales that focused
on spree murderers like Elliot Rodger, and the Rodger's YouTube video was part of the syllabus.
And of course, this could all just be people trying to make sense of a crime that maybe doesn't make a lot of sense.
But I haven't even gotten to the papa Rodger of it all. I totally forgot about the papa Rodger
thing. >> It's this is like another weird moment. So, in the days after the murders,
there was a Facebook group started up called University of Idaho Case Discussion Facebook Group Page. And the
goal was to spread information that could help the investigation. And like that stuff's pretty typical when you
have these major cases. But one person active on the page and posting under the name Papa Rodger
caught a lot of people's eye. Papa Rodger like an ode to Elliot Rodger? Potentially.
Now, whoever this was started commenting some really weird stuff in the group. Like information the public did not know
yet. And I actually brought some of it for you to read. Of the evidence released, the murder
weapon has been consistent as a large fixed-blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath.
So, like not a big deal to us right now, but in that moment, this person should not have known that because when Papa
Rodger posted that, it wasn't public knowledge that a sheath had been left behind.
And I don't think a sheath is like the logical thought most people would come to. Like most people would I I feel like
talk about knives and be like, "Oh, like a stab wounds or whatever." Because like
the autopsy, I don't know. But it was strange. And then he asked other odd things in the Facebook group
that the book mentions. Like, "How did the killer hold the knife prior to entering the scene in your opinion?"
Sounds a lot like a survey. And he also wrote that the killer isn't in the group's immediate circle. And the guy
reportedly argued incessantly with other commenters. And at some point, police started monitoring this group. Like it
made it to their radar as well, just because of this Papa Roger guy. And eventually Papa Roger gets banned from
the group for name-calling. Now, I think it's also interesting that we know police took a book from Kohberger's
house that they say had information on page 118 of that book. Like that was underlined.
Now, we're like piecing together things here because police have never said what
that book was, but there's a lot of speculation online that it was Elliot Rodger's manifesto because page 118 of
that talks about how he selected the date for his massacre that he carried out. Do we know if there's any
significance to November 13th? No. So, there's nothing been reported on about that or or if they tied A to B. It's
just again a weird thing that keeps coming up. Now, I would imagine that if all of this stuff is backed up by police
reports and data found on his devices or in his home or office or whatever, we might get more one day.
But for now, all we can do is speculate. I mean, there's been a gag order in this
case since very early on, and I'm not sure when that's going to be lifted. >> Are permanent gag orders a thing?
I mean, they're a pretty rare in criminal trials unless it's like a matter of Usually when they can do it is
like national security or something like that. So, if it was Maddie he was targeting, I still don't get the reason
behind why some roommates were also targeted and others weren't. Well, I mean, if his focus was on Maddie
and Kaylee was in the bed with her, maybe I don't know, he could have gotten surprised by that, maybe not, I don't
know. One thing, this is like not backed up by anyone. Dylan talks about like, "Oh, I heard noises. I thought she was
playing with her dog." I also kind of wonder if he went into Kaylee's Like, how much did he scope the house? Did he
go into Kaylee's room first and like see the dog and then like, "Oh, I got to go
find her." Right. Again, I'm just like making stuff up at this point. I've no idea, but if the Elliot Rodger thing
is the real deal, then maybe he meant to kill everyone in the house as like a bigger show of his anger. But then also,
I go back to why leave Dylan and Bethany. Now, I don't know if you remember, this is like so long ago, but
back in the day I talked to Zip about this when it first happened. Who's Zip? For my new Crime Junkies, Patrick
Serpolli, he worked for the Pennsylvania State Police. And when he retired in 2015, he was the
unit supervisor of Pennsylvania State Police Criminal Investigation Assessment Unit. But he does a lot of crime
assessment trainings now. We've had him on for a few of our shows. We've talked about different cases.
And early on, I ran into him at I actually think it was like the Deck live show when I was on tour for Deck
Investigates. And this had just happened. Like people were just talking about this. That would have been
February of 2023. And even back then, without like we didn't know much at that point. He said that this was targeted.
He said it was about one of the girls and that he thought whoever it was, like Kohberger had been rejected by her. And
when he talks, when he does his training, he says there are four profile types of offenders.
And when he was like looking at this, he's like, "I think Kohberger is the offender type which is which is
categorized as an anger retaliatory type." Like it's just that anger that drives them and they can't stop until
the anger is gone. But once that anger is gone, it's like they turn off. Like they don't have to kill anymore. So, I
asked him, I'm like, "So, why does he leave two other people or at least one other person that he knows of in the
house? The person who sees him." And Zip's like, "I mean, he didn't have to. Like He's done. Anger's been
released. His motivation for killing is gone basically. Now, the way in which he speculated it
happened was a little different because he thought that maybe he was like killing people in the house until he got
to the person he was looking for. So, if we're going to say that's Maddie. Like everyone who's in his way until he could
get that anger out. But we know now that police don't suspect that's how it happened. They don't suspect that she
was the last one who died. So, I don't know. I just thought it was interesting because it kind of fits.
Like what he's saying kind of fits with what seems to be the going theory. At least like we said with like among
family and friends. Kohberger is set to be sentenced next week on July 23rd. That's also when the families are going
to have a chance to read their victim impact statements. This will be their chance to be heard. So, our team is
actually going to keep following this story. We're going to have that hearing streamed on the Crime Junkie Jury
YouTube channel as well. So, if you want to follow along with us, make sure you go there. And we are going to try and
bring you more updates as they come. Probably mostly on social, so make sure to follow Crime Junkie podcast on
Instagram. But I mean, if we get something big, we'll put it here in the feed. When we started this, we reached
out to almost every person involved or connected to this case, but nobody wanted to talk before because everyone
thought they were gearing up for a trial or at least that's what I think. But maybe after the sentencing people
will be more open cuz I do have a feeling that people within the departments who spent their days and
weeks and months and years building this case and trying to bring justice, I think they want to
be able to talk. And some may have done so off the record already cuz there was I don't know if you caught it. There was
a Dateline special in May that caused this huge frenzy because they released a bunch of details that they clearly got
from someone who was close to the case. And remember, there was a gag order. So,
the judge on the case was furious. Like they somehow got their hands on Kohberger's internet history and that
was disturbing. I mean, the guy outright searched sociopathic traits in college student. And that was in September
before the murders. And then in the weeks before and after, he was searching terms like passed out, drugged,
sleeping, and forced. Dateline also reported that Kohberger had dozens of photos of girls and women, many who were
in bikinis and they weren't just like random people. Authorities confirmed that they were students from the
University of Idaho and Washington State University. Some of whom apparently knew
the victims. In another internet search in October, he wrote, "Can psychopaths behave prosocially?"
So, these are all things that the prosecution would have had before trial. So, while we won't ever know exactly
what they planned to argue, I think it gives us a good idea of where they were going.
And you know, one of the things I think about too is all of the victims were in like sororities or fraternities. And
when you go back to that Elliot Rodger, he attacked a sorority and like the surrounding areas.
So, did we ever get an idea of what the defense strategy was going to be or do you think
they were hoping that Brian would accept a plea? It just took a while to convince
him. >> I watched some of the pre-trial hearings where we got like a glimpse at their
plan. It was like they needed to take this plea. So, it seems like they were going to say
that Brian Kohberger was out stargazing the night of the murders. That literally explains
nothing. >> Why your phone is off? Maybe like not even that. A A stretch. Certainly doesn't explain
the sheath of your knife Yeah, being there. >> being there. Yeah, the prosecution had a strong case
against him. And I I assume they saw the writing on the wall. And isn't it wild how when death is on the table,
murderers suddenly get so scared? Like it's unbelievable to me. And I know that is what mattered to him because the
defense had even tried several motions to strike the death penalty before his plea deal. With the latest reason being
that Kohberger is a person with autism. Now, it's not clear when he was diagnosed, but they were trying to argue
that his diagnosis exposes him to the risk that he would have been wrongfully convicted and then put to death. Meaning
that his limited like facial expressions and him being stoic, his stare, which had already been dubbed sinister,
they're saying that like all of those are attributes they say he has because he is an autistic person and that could
have affected the jury's perception of his guilt. And that is why they wanted the death
penalty out. That got denied, too. They even tried to argue the IGG stuff. They were like,
"The way the FBI seized the trash outside of his parents' place was a violation of his Fourth Amendment rights
cuz police didn't get a search warrant before doing like any of that." But the court denied that, too, and said that he
had no reasonable expectation of privacy. Yeah, I knew that. I've watched a crime show before.
>> I know. And then the defense also tried to present an alternate suspect defense,
but that got denied, too. Wait, who would they even bring forward? >> They said that there were four other
people who could have done this. I don't know who because again, that got denied
and then the motion got sealed. We just know that these other people apparently knew the victims or interacted with the
victims before the murders. One other like hail Mary thing they tried to do, which I don't even really understand, is
they tried to ban the words bushy eyebrows from being used at trial. Denied again. They argued that police
didn't say anything to a judge about the unidentified samples of DNA found at the
scene when they requested Coburger's arrest warrant in December of 2022. And basically they say that detectives left
it out when the judge was deciding if there was enough probable cause. And they thought authorities were trying
to mislead the judge. So they wanted to throw out the whole indictment altogether. And that didn't work. The
authors of the Idaho 4 book say Bryan Kohberger nearly carried out the perfect crime had he not left the knife sheath
with his DNA on it. Thankfully for the families, he did. And I think that is who we want to remember in all of this.
The victims and their families. Some who wanted their day in court and will never
get it now. Kaylee and Maddie were both college seniors, best friends since grade. And Kaylee was just about to head
off to live in Austin, Texas and start a new job. She was only there that night visiting Maddie to celebrate some of
their last college moments together, not realizing how final those were. Kaylee's
sister told NBC's Today show that she had everything going for her. Xana was a junior studying marketing and her sister
described her to WAPT as light-hearted and someone who always lifted up a room. She often introduced herself as Xana,
like Xanax without the X, and she was very much in love with freshman Ethan Chapin. Ethan was just starting his
college experience, but he and Xana were already planning a life together. He was
inseparable from his triplet siblings, Maisy and Hunter, and they said in the Amazon docuseries that he was their
natural leader. And after his murder, they had to return to the University of Idaho without him. His mom, Stacy, said
that it was only a week before the murders that she had finally felt like her kids were in a great place. Like
it's got to be so hard, right, to like send your kids off for the very first time.
And she's like I she was in just in the place where she's like, I feel good. They're going to become such bright
adults. Now Maddie, she was a senior and a marketing major. She was an only child
and her parents' pride and joy. And her dad, Ben Mogen, spoke at a vigil for the
four victims in 2022 and said that everything Maddie did was such a big deal to him. Her mom, Karen, has even
kept Maddie's room exactly as it was when she died. She said in the documentary that she has
no plans to ever change it. And her family supports the plea deal. And maybe there will be more answers
down the line. But the deal for them is a step towards hope and healing, something that all the victims' families
and friends deserve. It's a shame we know their names this way. But they will be remembered for years,
if not generations to come. And not just for the way in which they died. They're
also being honored by two nonprofits. Ethan's Smile was set up in honor of Ethan.
And Made With Kindness was set up in honor of Kaylee, Maddie, and Xana. Both organizations provide educational
scholarships among other initiatives. And we made donations to both. And we're going to put a link in the show notes to
both of these if you would like to support as well. But you know, there was a University of Idaho student
who I think has been lost to time. Not in this case. I'm talking decades before.
Her name was Kristin David. And in 1981, she was found dismembered, wrapped in newspapers and plastic bags in the Snake
River. Her case has always been associated with four other disappearances and deaths in the area
that's known as the Lewis Clark Valley. Now locals and authorities think there is a serial killer who was at work back
then. And even though they had a suspect, they just couldn't prove it. So a lot of
those victims have been forgotten. But not on our watch. The Idaho 4 case is now solved.
So now I need to direct your attention to another case in the same area. Because here's the scary part. That guy,
the one they think might have been a serial killer back in the '80s, he's still out there.
And most people around him are none the wiser because his name isn't widely known like Bryan Kohberger's.
But all that changes next week. So be sure you don't miss next week's episode. And if you want to listen early and
ad-free, you can actually join our fan club. New episodes release there 3 days early and with zero ads. You can find
all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com.
>> And you can follow us on Instagram @crimejunkiepodcast. See you next week for that brand new
episode.

Today, we dive into the unnerving details of the University of Idaho murders that shook Moscow, Idaho, on November 13, 2022, claiming the lives of four students: Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. Our own original investigation provides new insights as we explore the horrific events of that night, the involvement of roommates Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funke, and the investigation that led to the arrest and eventual guilty plea of Bryan Kohberger. Our investigators have scoured the haunting timeline, dissecting key evidence like the knife sheath and white Hyundai Elantra, and lingering questions about the motive behind this tragic crime.

FULL EPISODE: Patrick "Zip" Zirpoli is Crime Junkie AF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPudbPd_AJM&t=1994s

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Brief Summary

Key points

A Night of Horror. Dylan Mortensen hears noises and a man's voice in her home, leading to a chilling encounter.
The Discovery of a Crime Scene. Police find a bloody scene in the house, revealing the brutal attack on four students.
The Vandal Alert. The University of Idaho sends out a safety announcement, revealing the tragic news to friends.
Online Speculation and Accusations. The internet's wild theories and accusations complicate the investigation and affect survivors.
The Chilling Timeline of Events. A detailed account of the night of the murders reveals unsettling patterns and activities.
The Search for the Killer. Police discover a white Hyundai Elantra linked to the murders, leading them to a suspect.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Why did Bryan Kohberger kill four students?

A haunting question that lingers over the case.

0:48WatchJul 17, 2025

Tension

76/ 100High tension

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