Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings | Full Podcast + Episode | Forensic Files

this episode contains graphic audio and references to Family Violence please listen with
care I just I can't believe this is happening dad well honey we don't know what's happening
okay in the early evening hours of July 14th 2017 Steve haran is trying to comfort
his oldest daughter Megan this is not real I am just praying to God this is a sick joke like the sickest
joke ever they've received terrifying news gunshots have been fired at the house Megan shares with her mother
Pamela haran in mlan Virginia no one yet knows what has happened inside I just need to see them Dad please first of all
and now to make matters worse no one can reach her mom or Megan's youngest sister
Helen this is I just want to hear their voices I just like I I know Steve and Pamela
haran divorced years ago everyone is meeting up at his house while they wait for
news Ashley the middle sister is racing there from her home in Pennsylvania Ashley and I have been calling my mom
and the house and Helen okay no one's answering the tap you're hearing was recorded by detective John vicory who
arrived at Steve haran's house I'm going to record this cuz there's a lot going on the detective is staying with the
family and updating them I'm going to get information from you and as things start coming in I'll be able to tell you
a little bit more Megan explains that she had moved in with her mother a few years back with her 8-year-old Daughter
Molly Pamela was helping raise her granddaughter they go to the nail salon together she does all the gardening with
my Mom they're best friends Megan's youngest sister Helen who is 24 had just moved back in too she recently graduated
from Southern Methodist University with degrees in math and management science here's Megan again she was actually in
the regular Masters program at in Dallas before she moved okay and then she quit
it detective vicory asked to speak to Steve alone I wanted to get a little bit more information from your dad if I
could do that in private um detective vicory Whispers to Steve hoping that his daughters don't hear him he says I don't
have good news I don't have good news the detective says and keeps speaking under his breath trying to convince
Steve that he's probably the strongest one to tell the rest of the family what happened about my
daughter they were Bor both found shot to death I'm really sorry Steve absorbs the
information thank you for um thank you for letting me be the one ofs he waits until both his daughters
are together before he shares the devastating news 20 minutes later Ashley arrives and she's distraught this has
been the longest ride of my life I just want to hear my mom and my sister's voice I want to see them I want to make
sure they're okay Steve decides this is the moment to tell them what he knows I'm sorry to tell you girls oh my
God your mom what happened what is happening then Detective vicory his voice and shares some of the
gruesome details someone matching description your mother was found deceased on the
main level she did have a gunshot and and when officers come upstairs they located your sister in the
bathroom the rifle was St he's saying the rifle was in the bathroom with Helen what could that mean
oh God what are we going to do Jesus what are we going to do I don't know I need to I really need to see them
they took him to the medical examiner there's an investigation going on honey who would want to kill their
mother and their little sister before this tragedy the haran women seemed to have it all from the
outside looking in we were blessed my mom was amazing they were close and had everything to look forward to but as
detectives would soon learn there was a lot going on inside the haran household in my 25 years reporting
stories like this the haran case is one of the few that sounds like something made up by a Hollywood screenwriter a
story of betrayal you would struggle to believe if it wasn't true I'm Peter vanat from 48 hours this
is blood is thicker the haran family killings my sister was not my sister for many mon episode 1 home from
[Music] Texas there were several aspects of this case that were extreme extremely unique
that I have not seen before earlier in the afternoon detective Brian berson gets a call to head to Pamela haran's
house there were two bodies in a house in mlan and I was to respond to Dean drive now on your way there what have
you been told about what's inside that house very little we know that when we get up there that Patrol has been in the
house that they had to force entry through the front door so the house was locked and that inside the house there
were the bodies of two women he drives to Pamela haran's neighborhood unsure of what he's about to encounter where this
took place was an affluent section of mlan Virginia it's the kind of place where political power players have large
homes and a yard without too long of a commute to DC presidents Senators CIA agents have
all called mlan home The Harens live on a Treeline Street their home is a nearly
5,000 ft Colonial with a covered porch and six bedrooms it's a million dooll home detective byon and Julia Elliot a
crime scene detective and forensics expert arrive at the house it certainly didn't look like some place where two
homicides potentially had occurred they enter through the front door into a foyer there's a wooden staircase with
carpeted steps up to the second floor and a hallway with panel molding and black photo frames lining the cream
colored wall it seems idilic it was Immaculate I've never seen a more organized home in my life as detectives
they're trained to notice the details every chair is perfectly spaced along their long dining room table each throw
pillow has its own place on the couch nothing looks aess until they get to the back half of the house here here's
detective byerson again as you walk through the kitchen you encounter a mudroom that connects the kitchen to the
garage uh so in that mud room we discover Pam uh Pamela Hansen haran she is laying on the floor of the mudro
Pamela haran has been shot twice in the head the top half of her body is wrapped
in a quilt with her legs sticking out and her head is covered and she has a dog bed uh laying on her head covering
her a dog bed on her head what do you mean like a small dog bed that you would see in your house that maybe your dog
would lay in was actually covering a portion of her head detectives then make their way upstairs if you come up that
staircase into the long hallway and make your second left that would be into Helen's bedroom and once you get into
Helen's bedroom is her bathroom and that's where her body was found she's leaning back and her head is
laid back into the bathtub so she's sort of laying on both the toilet seat and the bathtub and then her legs are
pointed straight out towards the door as you walk in this is Helen her 24-year-old daughter yes there was a
rifle that was sort of laying between her legs Patrol when they arrived finding two deceased persons one with a gun on
their body assumed or thought that there might have been a murder suicide detectives though aren't so sure I mean
a lot of these cases are like huge jigsaw puzzles that you can never fully put together what did you learn about
the dynamic within this family were they a close group I know that Megan and Helen for instance were about 10 years
apart in age it seemed like they were all relatively close Pamela had worked hard to establish herself in a community
of overachievers she' been divorced for several years she was very successful on
her own she got her start at 17 and worked her way up to the Executive Suite holding big jobs at companies like loed
Martin and more recently a tech firm Pamela saw herself as a provider she loved her daughters she had a
granddaughter that she absolutely adored people thought Helen the youngest took after her mom she was smart talented and
ambitious what's Your Gut telling you as you as you take a look look at these two
bodies wait wait and do the job the clues investigators found they'd mle over for
years we have two bodies two different rooms but it's one house some puzzles are hard to solve others are hard to
prove Detective Elliot has worked in the crime scene department for about a decade I'm looking for anything that may
have been left behind by the person that did the crime such as blood fingerprints trace DNA
like hairs or fibers Detective Elliot notices how Pamela's body was positioned I believe where she was shot physically
on her body and how she was laying in the mud room I believe someone came up either to her side or from the back and
shot her then there's the odd fact that her face is partially covered generally that's done in cases that I've worked
because someone known to the victim uh may be the suspect in these cases and they're either ashamed or they can't
look at what they've done so they choose to cover the bodies so sometimes it's someone very close to the deceased has
done this that can be a clue to maybe where we should be going or what we should be looking at and then there was
Pamela's cell phone that phone was sitting on top of the quilt that was covering her and it was also sitting on
top of a pool of blood that seems very strange doesn't it it is strange strange we know that it means that that phone
was placed there sometime after she died well I want to know what fingerprints are on that cell phone if
anything at all and I want to find out who put that cell phone there in that particular place so you want to check
for fingerprints and DNA yes what do you find on this phone nothing nothing detective Elliott isn't sure if that
meant the phone had been wiped clean not everything holds fingerprints very well
but p couldn't have put her own cell phone on top of her body it seemed to suggest the killer had placed the phone
on her but could it have been Helen Megan would later tell police their little sister had been in crisis I love
Helen but something has really changed in her over the last few months and my mom was
concerned as the family would later tell detectives Pamela seemed willing to spend on whatever her daughters needed
cars houses and even office furniture Ashley just called her last week and said she needed file
cabinets and my mom ordered file cabinet here Megan was on the phone with Detective byerson they're supposed to be
delivered this week I mean anything we needed she gave it to us the girls were little when their parents divorced and
Pamela had raised her daughters on her own we always made the joke that that's why they got divorced cuz my dad
couldn't handle you know four women at the same time and even when Pamela's children became adults they still relied
on her Megan for one was 34 and had been living with her mother for years even though she was married her husband
served in the military my husband deploys often so I've always stayed with my mom at the time of the shootings
Megan wasn't working where are you working now um I'm I'm not right now I have to
um I'm an event planner okay but I have to finish my C clients up here and I'm moving everything out to Morgan Town
okay Megan told the police that she and her husband were buying a new house in West Virginia and were about to finally
move in together while there was love in the haran household the daughters also said there was arguing they'd air their
Grievances and move on if family just that's how it is Ashley agreed she told detective byerson as much my mom and dad
had a horrible divorce okay coming from a family females we fought a lot okay argued a lot okay it's just how it was
mhm what may seem really bad to other people was normal to us like we would have our screaming matches 5 minutes
later we were fine but according to Megan her little sister Helen had been Furious lately then Megan
revealed that the morning of the shootings Helen and their mom had been arguing yet again Helen has been so
angry like just so angry all the time over everything it's unclear when Ashley and
Megan put two and two together but at some point they started contemplating the maob possibility that Helen might
have killed their mother and then herself detective vicory told their dad her wound appeared
self-inflicted but all Megan and Ashley had been told was that the rifle was found in the bathroom with Helen they
tried putting pieces of this part of the puzzle together why Helen might have done something like this you can hear
Megan's daughter playing in the other room where the [ __ ] is heing I'm so angry right now
and told her about the house this morning she told her told her what she was breaking the contract with the Aldi
house according to Megan their mother had been planning to buy Helen a house in Aldi a small town in Virginia but
then the morning of the shootings Pamela told Helen she decided against it Megan
suggested that it might have had something to do with Helen's new boyfriend an older man she'd been dating
in Texas someone her mother did not approve of his name was Carlos Gutierrez Helen had unexpectedly dropped
out of graduate school and Pamela thought her boyfriend was a bad influence Megan said her mother didn't
want Helen's boyfriend to move into any house she was going to buy Pamela seemed willing to go above and
beyond for her girls but that morning she had apparently gone back on her promise to
one of them because she truly believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the house and
my mom didn't want him being there and now both sisters seem to be suggesting that maybe Helen frustrated by her
mother somehow broke turning to violence to settle a score and end her own life she was so excited about this house
that my mom was getting for her so your mom was buying her a house mhm in the days after
the shootings Ashley spoke with Detective Brian byerson he'd been assigned the lead on this case and
you'll recall he'd searched her mother's house why was your mom buying her house that's what my mom mom
did had she done it for everybody not for me my mom offered to buy my house and my husband and I said now Ashley
said her mom did buy her a Jeep but that she didn't want to live in a house that
was owned by her mother my husband and I talked about it and I said I don't want
to do that mhm I want to try to even though we live paycheck to paycheck I want to try to do this on her own but
Helen had accept CED her mother's offer of help Ashley thought the offer for Helen's house in Virginia came with
strings attached but you need to get a job you need to continue to get your master's degree yada yada yada Ashley
also said the family was worried about Helen's well-being that maybe she was using drugs she says she's concerned
about Helen maybe using some other type of narcotic or whatever did and what did
you what how did that conversation end with my mom and I yeah she said that she wanted to take all of us to the Outer
Banks for two weeks and she wanted all of us to be together she told him that Helen had a history of depression and
thoughts of self harm when was the last time that Helen had ever talked about hurting
herself with me it was probably last year I want to say Ashley described a call she got from her
sister while Helen was still attending University in Dallas about a year before the shooting Helen gave me a call and
she was clearly drunk and she said I just don't want to do it anymore and I said what do you mean knowing full well
immediately what she meant by that and she's like Ashley I'm just sick of it all and I said Helen I'm right here
there's no reason for you to say that I'm like I will fly out to Dallas right now if you need too the detective asked
if Helen gave her any reasons she was just sad she's like I have no friends she was just sick of everything and
nothing going right again when you have depression no matter what you have in life especially you know cars and house
it doesn't mean [ __ ] to you you're just sad I said you have all your dogs to look after they love you I said I love
you Ashley said she kept calling to check in on Helen every 10 minutes until her sister sobered up I was the only one
who was able to calm her down and that's why it's killing me she did not call me
on Friday I would have been able to calm her down Ashley was racing through all the what FS all the things that might
have happened differently that day if she'd been able to speak to Helen to calm her down to stop her before she did
anything rash detective byerson asked if Helen had ever attempted suicide I think when
she was a teenager she tried to take pills was it reported I don't think so now how do you know about
[Music] that she had told she had said mention something like that because I have been
talking about it cuz I try to commit suicide by taking a bottle of pills when I was about
15 both Helen and Ashley had thoughts of ending their lives when they were teenagers but Ashley was now 32 and
beside herself every single emotion right now hearing about this finding out about this from Helen's
piece of [ __ ] boyfriend it turns out Carlos had been the one to call Ashley and Teller shots had been fired at her
mother's house again and again the sisters blamed Helen spiral on the boyfriend they'd never met the family
seemed to accept that Helen's depression could have pushed her over the edge the day of the shooting local
reporters set up to go live not far from the caution tape news in Fairfax County
Police broke down the door of a home there and found two women dead this happened on Dean drive that is not too
far from mlan high school reporters asked the police if they thought a killer could still be on the loose we
asked police a short time ago is there a danger to this community is there a suspect that is still at large out there
the answer to that question a resounding no the working Theory here is a murder followed by a suicide in Fairfax
tonight the Fairfax County Police told the family and the community that initially this looked like a murder
suicide we're learning more tonight about the mom and daughter found dead inside a mlan Virginia home on Friday
police say Helen haran shot her mom Pamela haran before turning the gun on herself but those were first responding
officers at the scene not detective berson it's unfortunate it certainly didn't come from the investigators who
were actually doing the work on the ground right from the start they had a major clue that something very different
had happened to Pamela and Helen haran that's because Helen's boyfriend Carlos who was more than a thousand miles away
had been talking to her on the phone right before she died it turned turned out not everything the police had been
told about Carlos was true he had been trying to get his girlfriend help for hours trying to save her in fact Fairfax
County Police on fire how may I assist you yes have an emergency my girlfriend lives in mcen her sister is acting
really weird coming up on blood is thicker this particular case there were things about the scene itself that were
were concerning to us on day [Music] one if you are in crisis and need to talk to someone call The Suicide Hotline
at 1 1800 2738255 or you can simply dial three digits 988 to talk to a trained counselor from 48 hours
this is blood is thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48
Hours original reporting by 48 Hours producers Sarah elely Michelle sigona Lauren white and Josh
joerger Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount audio and Mara walls is the senior story
editor recording assistants from Alan Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to Paramount
podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced
by Sony Music Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed
by hansdale shei he also soundd designed and mixed the episodes we also use music
by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our fact Checker our production managers
are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and
review it helps more people find it and hear our reporting you can listen into blood is thicker the haran family
killings early and add free right now by joining wry Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcasts thanks for
[Music] listening this episode contains graphic audio and references to Family Violence
please listen with care Fairfax Canon police in fire how may I assist you yes have an
emergency more than a thousand miles from where he believes a crime is unfolding Carlos Gutierrez is
desperately trying to save his girlfriend's life this was back in the summer of 2017 hello are you there yes I'm here
these calls are from emergency services in Northern Virginia that's where the love of his life Helen haran lives
I'm thinking my girlfriend's life is in danger his girlfriend's life is in danger but Carlos feels like the 911
operator isn't taking him seriously why aren't they responding with concern okay sir what I need you to
do then is contact your local jurisdiction file a report with them and tell them that Fairfax County requires a
teletype in order to do a welfare check okay I think this is like life or death like I some like me dead Carlos is
trying to make sure the operator understands the seriousness of the situation but instead of quickly
dispatching police the 911 operator tells him to call someone else contact your local jurisdiction file the report
have them send us a teletype and then we will go and check on her okay how do I get a hold of my jurisdiction how I do
that I well sir you if you don't have their non-emergency number if you dial 9911 you'll get your e Mercy
Center okay thank you uhhuh bye-bye I would play this 911 call for detective Brian byerson of the Fairfax
County Police he told me this first operator no longer works at the call center yeah this one is uh
incontrovertibly horrible we do not require a teletype number to report a possible homicide it's that's completely
ridiculous Carlos would call speak to an operator and then be told he needed to call someone else again and again listen
closely because this 911 tape is not exactly easy to understand is your girlfriend at home right
now well that's the thing she won't answer her phone according to Carlos hours earlier Helen had called him to
say her mom might be dead and then she stopped answering her phone she hadn't called 911 Carlos didn't hear from her
and now he was worried Helen was in danger in a Race Against Time Carlos keeps calling the police we're going to
need you to call your local police department and oh my God they still not there I'm sorry you're still not there
how are we supposed to get there well you didn't give us an address y'all can't look up the name Pam hard and MIM
and we looked up the name Sam haran and mlan we don't list individuals by name we don't record information that way
okay I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time I'm sorry finally more than an hour after his first 911 call police tell
Carlos that they're sending officers to Helen's home detective Brian byerson didn't find
out about Carlos's calls to 911 until after he walked through the haran house and saw the two two bodies for himself
ultimately what Carlos had to say would blow a hole in the theory that this was a murder suicide and that meant a killer
could still be on the loose if true you have a brutal vicious killer in this community who could kill again that is
correct I'm Peter vanent from 48 hours this is blood is thicker the haran family killings episode two the
[Music] boyfriend Carlos Gutierrez is on the phone with a 911 supervisor out of Fairfax County Virginia okay Mr gues yes
yes okay so she asks him more about his relationship with Helen haran how long have you known your girlfriend for about
a year Carlos and Helen had been dating for a year they first met in Dallas they were working at a local
restaurant together and there were Sparks they hid it off this is Michelle sigona she's a producer for 48 hours and
has spent years following the case there are cases we will spend months years on
and then they will Air this is one of those that we spent an incredible amount of time prior two it aing Carlos was in
his early 30s when he met Helen she was 23 he said that you know although maybe he wasn't technically formally living
with her per se in Texas he was at her house 247 so they were living together essentially Helen was attending Southern
Methodist University and said on her resume that her goal was to work for a defense contractor just as her mom
Pamela had once done a according to Carlos they fell in love and were inseparable it seemed like Carlos was
planning to include Helen in his long-term future the couple were planning to leave Dallas and build a new
life together in Northern Virginia he was so dedicated to Helen that Carlos was ready to leave his life in Texas and
move to Virginia as Carlos calls 911 the day of the tragedy he tells the story of the
life they had planned look we got a house that's getting built he even mentions the house in Aldi
Virginia that Helen's mother was buying he said they were serious committed according to Carlos he had big
plans for their future he was planning to propose to her at some point after Helen made the move back East the couple
video chatted texted and called every day he said the night before the shootings they missed each other so much
that they spent nearly 4 hours talking on the phone it's a long time to talk to anyone 10 days before Pamela and Helen's
deaths Carlos went to see Helen in Virginia so according to court testimony Carlos said he came to the area he did
not stay at Pam's house that he and Helen stayed at a hotel nearby Carlos said he had no idea that Helen's family
had any animosity toward him until after the shootings but there were signs none
of Helen's family came out to meet him when he and Helen stopped by the house for blankets for a Fourth of July outing
the blankets were put outside but Carlos said he didn't think anything about it Helen's oldest sister Megan would bring
this up to police they were in the driveway when she came to get blankets for 4th of July and she said Megan wait
they're in the driveway she's saying her mom told her not to go out and meet him
Pamela had bought Helen a house but was now having second thoughts because Carlos might move in with her daughter
here's Megan in a police recording taken hours after the shooting this morning my mom let Helen know that she
was canceling the contract on the house she's billing her because she truly believed that Helen was going
to try to move Carlos into the house and my mom didn't want him being there after that she said Helen was Furious
her mother had changed her mind but also said her kid's sister was even mad at her why Megan said she and her husband
closed on a house of their own in West Virginia so while Helen's dream was taken away Megan was still getting hers
she got mad at me and thought the house was my fa and you know Mom was like has nothing to do with her you know why
Helen I can't trust you and I'm not letting that carless move into that house Megan said that she was
leaving to drive to West Virginia that morning before she left she said the door to her mom's home office was closed
when I was leaving like I said I saw her office door Clos and that usually means
she's on the phone so I just left it be she remembered how Helen was out on the front porch very upset I think it was
this afternoon when I was leaving the house and she was crying and I went out to the porch and they said who you have
the phone with and she was like Carlos and I like oh are you okay and she's like and I said and I said
um are you is everything okay she was crying police had been given two versions of that deadly mour one where
Helen was scared for her life and another where she was the likely killer but which one did the evidence
support [Music] this particular case there were things about the scene itself that were
concerning to us on day one detectives Brian byerson and Julia Elliott a forensics expert looked over the two
rooms where Helen and Pamela were shot Helen was found upstairs in her bathroom Pamela in the mudro found on the floor
under a quilt oddly her phone was sitting on top of the quilt in a pool of blood we know what that means we know
that it means that that phone was placed there sometime after she died but this wasn't the only strange
clue Helen's cell phone was set on the bathroom counter near the sink and yet didn't have a spot of blood on it and I
want to find out who put that cell phone there in that particular place so you want to check for fingerprint and DNA
yes what do you find on this phone nothing nothing nothing on Helen's phone she'd find the mother's phone was also
clean on the front we will typically see fingerprints or at least smudges of fingerprints on this one we were able to
see smears as if someone had wiped it from side to side the bathroom was in disarray with toiletry scattered on the
floor but Detective Elliot noticed that the rifle was neatly placed why hadn't it tumbled away when she shot herself
the rifle was still laying perfectly within her legs that to me tells me that if she's moving enough to move things
off of the back of the toilet I would expect that gun to have fallen down to the floor I also have seen suicides done
with long guns where they are not able to retain control of the gun but for Detectives the rifle's perfect placement
wouldn't be the only red flag you have a scene that's relatively small detective
byerson told me that if Helen had killed herself in such a small bathroom there'd
likely be Blood on the rifle there is blood everywhere it's all over the place however there doesn't seem to be
any blood on the rifle itself which is sitting in the middle of all of this even though there's blood underneath so
that is a huge problem to the detective this just didn't make sense we had a generally clean weapon and then
underneath the weapon there was blood where there shouldn't have been if the weapon was there so that suggests
perhaps someone else shot Helen it suggests that the weapon wasn't there until later
on which doesn't sound like a murder suicide to me then right it does not and in the basement another strange site
Detective Elliot found couch cushions that looked like they'd been slashed with a knife I wasn't sure if someone
was taking out some anger or what they were doing was it a tear kind of cut or was it puncture kind of cut it was a
stabbing puncture type cut like someone had what practiced on it yes and is it true that there was a long
knife found in the house yes the knife was in plain sight she took a photo of it still down there in the basement this
is the knife and it's sitting on a bookshelf that was just to the left of the couch cushions in the same room
detective Elliott believed the killer may have considered using the knife as a murder weapon instead of the rifle and
then when Detective Elliot turned to look at Pamela haran's bookshelves she spotted something else so that
Center uh set of books that are kind of gray with the Red Band those are photo albums and I got a little uh nosy and I
wanted to see what my victims may have looked like in Life or as they grew up so I pulled out one of the center photo
albums to look at it and open it up and behind it was a piece of evidence that ended up being quite important what was
found it was a photocopy of Pamela's spreadsheet that she used for all her accounts account numbers and passcodes
it was also a photocopy of Pamela's bank statement this was still the night of the shootings and while Detective Elliot
wanted to dig in and learn more about this bank statement financial documents were not on our search warrant and so
therefore I could not take it we photographed it as we found it that night and eventually a couple days later
came back with a search warrant to recover those papers and they were not not there they were not there they were
not you found yourself a pretty interesting piece of of evidence right yes at the time we weren't exactly sure
what we were dealing with detectives were becoming increasingly convinced that both the
haran women had been murdered but by who and what was the motive it would turn out that Helen's
boyfriend Carlos had shared a theory with Ashley here's detective John vicory asking the father Steve haran about it
tell me again what Carla says to you to her you know exactly what Ashley tells me that Carlo said to her that Megan
shot your mother earlier that July Morning Carlos had woken up to some messages from his
girlfriend Helen one text read I wanted to see if by chance you were awake call me when you do wake up love you to
Carlos nothing out of the ordinary everything appeared to be okay our producer Michelle sigona read through
Carlos's Court testimony about that morning he was at home in Dallas and had slept in the two played phone tag until
after 11 eastern time when Carlos finally caught her Helen was beside herself later in the morning um Carlos
says specifically that Helen sound sounded frightened and scared he used words like Helen was trembling she was
sobbing she was very frantic she immediately told him why and Carlos would tell 911 Cy police ire how may I assist you
my girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom and now my girlfriend w answer her
phone Carlos explained to the operator that Helen told him her sister Megan came upstairs to her room and said that
she killed her mother Pamela so if you let that sink in for a minute she told me that her sister had killed her mother
I can't imagine being in Dallas Texas while talking to my girlfriend on the phone who was inside this home where
something horrific has happened and not really knowing what to do Carlos even said Helen told him she could hear her
mother gasping for life things sounded dire he was trying to get to the heart of what was happening in all of this
Carlos told Helen to leave immediately he was trying to tell her to get out of the house to call police to do something
but Helen had hesitation according to Carlos Helen was very nervous and possibly scared for her niece who
apparently was also in the home Helen wanted to protect her niece Megan's Daughter Molly and that she was worried
what her sister might do if the police showed up she didn't want her niece to see her mother getting arrested soon
after Helen stopped responding and he called for help but Carlos couldn't recall Pamela haran's
address okay where do you live I live in Dallas you live mlan okay and what's her
address I don't know she's at her mom's house her mom's name is Pam haran Carlos
thought his future wife's life was at risk but this lack of details only left emergency services with more questions
they asked Carlos to call back when he had more information and kept having him speak to different operators rehashing
what Helen had told him finally the public safety supervisor in Fairfax County Virginia called Carlos herself
her name is Lisa Wagner Smith she wanted to know how this alleged murder had unfolded okay was this just out of the
blue did you say how she did it or why she did it she said she shot her she said she woke up and her sister told her
she shot her mom so your girlfriend is sitting in a house with a dead woman the 911
supervisor sounded skeptical why why would Helen stay put if her sister had killed their mom Carlos would call back
with the right information and reach a 911 operator I I reported a murder earlier and I didn't have the address
now I have the address so we didn't mean you reported a murder earlier do you think something
happened there well I know for a fact that her sister shot her mom when this morning
that's what I'm trying to tell you guys yeah this morning she called me and told
me her sister shot her mom and she didn't know what to do and I told her to call the cops to get the kid and call
the cops the operator passed Carlos back to Lisa the supervisor with the address
and some information confirmed after multiple calls from Carlos 911 was finally able to send help we are sending
an officer out there is there anything else you can think of that we need to know no I mean I'm just freaking out I'm
I'm thinking something bad happened to my girlfriend in case you didn't catch that Carlos
said he was freaking out and worried something had happened to Helen before they end the call though Carlos did
think of something else officers needed to know if y'all need it like I have like some incriminating text that her
sister sent me Carlos thought Megan was texting him not his girlfriend what does
that say CU after the fact that Helen told me that her sister children Mom right mhm
she I called her and she wouldn't answer and so she text me back Helen did and it
was like hey sorry I'm just arguing with my mom she pisses me off hate her and I
this is after the fact that Helen told me that her sister told her mom so I know that her sister got her phone and
was sending these messages here's what one of those texts said everything is fine I'm not mad at Megan I'm mad that
my mom paid for her house she and her husband should buy it themselves here is our producer Michelle sagona again based
on these text messages he was receiving they were a huge red flag for Carlos he just wanted Helen to call him but all he
got were texts and that started to feel suspicious I'm not even mad at her really the text continued just effing
hate my mom Carlos didn't think that sounded like the woman he loved he kept calling Helen's cell finally he
was able to reach someone but it was not Helen it was Megan on the other side of
the phone here's Carlos again yes and and now I called my girlfriend and her sister answers the phone and refuses to
let me talk to my girlfriend but Carlos persisted and he kept asking I need to speak with Helen I'm having a bad day I
need to speak with Helen and he's just getting some conflicting information Carlos doesn't back down he said he
stayed on the phone pushing Megan to give the phone to Helen for nearly 10 minutes he believes at this point that
she is not okay on that long call Carlos said Megan told him that her mother didn't approve of him and that she
wasn't going to let them move into the new house in Aldi Carlos claims that you know Pam had never said that to him or
to Helen the call ended without him ever speaking to his girlfriend so none of this is making sense to him this is why
he decides to make a brave move and call 911 Carlos realized that he needed to be
the one to call for help and would begin his agonizing journey to sound the alarm
with the Emergency Services my gosh can you imagine I mean not knowing what's happening inside of that house and
trying to call 911 and being told you have to go through all these steps Megan told police she left the house around
1:30 that afternoon headed for West Virginia and then turned around to go to her dad's after she heard about the
shooting Ashley was racing to her dad's too Carlos had called her while she was in the car but Ashley had trouble
believing his story here is detective vicory asking Ashley about the call after she arrived at her dad's we we
heard you received a call from Carlos yes and I don't even know this kid was stranger off the street he was saying
that my this sister shot my mom by this sister Ashley meant Megan who was sitting right there with them she would
never do that ever never okay obviously I've known her my entire life and we've been through hell and bad together I
know my sister Ashley told the detective she's been calling her mom and sister Megan chimed in to say she has two I
left voice Wills her mom I was trying to talk Carlos was saying Megan killed her
mother but in that moment the sisters were dismissive of him I don't know this guy from Adam that's what I that's what
I've been saying like Ashley made it clear she didn't believe that Megan is a murderer do you recall his exact words
Megan shot your mom and I was like I'm sorry what we were together all morning I know like it just nothing's adding up
nothing was adding up Ashley and her dad didn't seem scared of Megan police didn't arrest her and that day law
enforcement told the public that the killer was dead Patrol officers thought Helen had
done it but given how the crime scen didn't neatly fit a murder suicide and Carlos's 911 calls detective berson
asked himself the question was Megan the killer did she murder both her mom and Helen that
morning we have manipulated crime scene in multiple places the wiped phone the possibly
wiped rifle the placing of the rifle we have the fact that Mom was covered and that her phone was laying on top of the
quilt a couple days later they would hear about a suspicious call it becomes very obvious to us that there is no
other there is no Boogeyman here it is exactly who we think it is from 48 hours this is blood is
thicker the haran family killing Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
producers Sarah elely Michelle sigona Lauren white and Josh joerger Jamie Benson is the senior
producer for Paramount audio and Mara walls is the senior story editor recording assistants from Alan
Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to paramont podcast vice president Megan Marcus and
48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music
Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan Hirsch our associate producer is zoi kulen theme and original music composed
by hansdale shei he also s designed and mixed the episodes we also use music by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our
fact Checker our production managers are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison
I'm Peter Van sand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and review it helps more people find it and hear our
reporting you can listen to blood is thicker the haran family killings early and AD free right now by joining wry
Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcasts thanks for [Music] listening we had to take everything
every scenario into play that's our responsibility after spending the whole evening coming for Clues at the haran
house homicide detective Brian byerson of the Fairfax County Police police knew something was off the rifle leaning
against Helen's dead body wasn't covered in blood both Helen and Pamela's cell phones had been wiped clean and then
later into the day the detective learned what Helen's boyfriend Carlos Gutierrez
had told 911 dispatchers my girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom and now my girlfriend won't answer
her phone Carlos had said that Helen's sister Megan had killed Pamela we knew that Megan haran was at her father's
home I had a conversation with that detective and I asked him to get a good statement from her as far as where she
was and GSR her hands G gunshot residue gunshot residue yes the police took photos of Megan and gather evidence that
evening and Fairfax County Police used one of their gunshot res residue kits to test Megan's hands and the result
revealed something both suspicious and disturbing Megan haran had gunshot residue on her hands there is no reason
that she should have that by Nightfall The Day of the shootings detectives knew Megan had
recently fired a weapon remember both victims had been shot to death the next day another crucial piece of evidence
came to light in these kind of cases we don't really know anything until other things happen meaning the autopsy is
extremely important in these cases authorities examined Pamela and Helen's bodies and at the
autopsy we realized that the gunshot wound on Helen haran was in the top of her head the entrance and exit wounds
didn't make sense to berson we don't see a a way that she could have made that or
she could have shot herself with the trajectory that we were seeing in the x-rays we were face to
face when detective byerson told me this he then demonstrated what happened to Helen according to the
autopsy he lifted up his arm and pointed straight down at the top of his head that's the angle he said the bullet
entered Helen's skull from the top of her head down into her neck it's straight down left to right in crime
scene photos the 22 caliber long rifle is aimed up resting in her lap she would have to hold it straight up and be able
to reach the trigger to accomplish this I've never seen that before and I've worked a lot of death cases I've worked
a lot of murders I've never seen that we had other uh detectives at the time that
had much more experience than I did we all agreed that this is not even a Poss possibility in his mind they were now
investigating a double homicide so now this big puzzle we're starting to fit pieces together and we're starting to
see a general outline of maybe what happened here detective byerson wanted to talk with the only other adult who
said they were in the house the day of the shooting Meg I'm sorry I didn't have your phone
number by then Megan haran had talked on the phone with Detective byerson a few times I offered everything the first
night I said please like just whatever you need but byerson wanted to speak in person she had offered to come in one
time and give us anything that we asked for so we took advantage of that at this
point they've got evidence and they want to confront Megan with some of it and see how she reacts would she have a good
explanation for having touched the rifle and if she did have have something to do with the deaths of her loved ones
would she confess I'm Peter vanan from 48 Hours blood is thicker the haran family
killings I gave you every my clothing I gave you my finger I gave you everything
because of that why would I give that if I if I knew I was guilty episode three a killer in plain
sight [Music] we wanted to know more about who Megan haran was in early summer of 2022 we
turned to Rebecca wolf she's one of Megan's closest friends she told us more about the eldest daughter in the haran
family Megan and I met through a lot of the animal rescue work that we did together we fostered some of the same
dogs Rebecca said they met a couple of years before the shootings 2015 2016 we met and just hit
it off right away they originally bonded over their Love of Animals Megan volunteered for dog rescues and even
helped veterans bring home dogs they had adopted overseas so it evolved obviously
um from just that topic to talking about all the things talking about her daughter talking about her family
talking about my my family Rebecca said Megan often talked about her life and plans including how she hoped to move
into a new house in West Virginia she described Megan as kindhearted she will give you the shirt off her back she
raised a great daughter her daughter is one of the smartest kids I know we wanted to know if Megan had told Rebecca
about any turmoil in the haran family any worrisome signs you could call it the All-American family now because now
the All American family is messed up right so the haran family as told to me was your typical American Family where
Mom and Dad got divorced all the drama that comes with that with new relationships new spouses
stepparents but Rebecca didn't remember Megan being all that resentful or upset about her childhood As Told by Megan a
very beautiful family experience with the perfunctory weirdness of families Megan did Tell Rebecca that at
times she was frustrated with kid Sister Helen Helen was the baby sister and if you have siblings you know the baby
whatever is a pain always but that doesn't mean you don't love them that doesn't mean you don't go out of your
way to help them Megan did that for Helen a lot the gist Rebecca got from her friend
was that Megan was the responsible one Megan was kind of the mom of the crew my understanding of Helen is that she was
actually more of an introvert that she was not the party animal Ashley was more the party animal but Rebecca said that
from what she knew Megan the oldest always got along more with her middle sister Ashley than with Helen I never
got the impression that the relationship with Ashley was as maybe contentious as it was with
Helen and and the reason I use that word contentious is because again baby sisters can be a pain in the butt
however Megan said Helen was particularly dependent on the family that was sort of her attitude on life
mom will Mom will take care of it if Mom doesn't take care of it Megan will come
down here and take care of it for me type thing so again she kind of got the benefit of a mom and a secondary mom
Helen isn't here to tell her side of things but that's what Rebecca said Megan told her and apparently Megan
never said a harsh word about her mother to Rebecca Megan admired Pam's wisdom her career all that she had done through
her lifetime she always spoke very lovingly of her Rebecca said her friend described Pamela as a strong matriarch
her loves in Life or her daughters and her granddaughter and she and Molly had an exceptional
relationship and as someone who enjoyed being generous it wasn't like you want something again it was I want to do this
for you Megan told her friend that her mother had insisted on helping pay for her new house Megan was in the process
of moving to West Virginia she didn't need the help her husband Frank's salary was enough to get them alone but
Pamela's help would let them buy a place outright with cash I mean she was going
out to get a house with her husband the two of them and her mom said I want to contribute to this house for you I want
to help you buy this house so her understanding was her mom was going to do something one way or the other Megan
had been living with her mom for nearly eight years her husband Frank was a soldier who was often deployed
overseas finally the couple and their daughter would soon be back under the same roof and starting a new life in
West Virginia That was supposed to happen the day before Pamela and Helen died Rebecca
expected to get a call about their new ranch style home and not a tragedy Megan called me and left me a voicemail and
just said hey it's Megan I just wanted to let you know something horrible has happened and I don't want you to see it
on the news and um Mom and Helen are gone call me Megan sounded distraught I almost felt bad about calling her back
cuz she sounded so upset Rebecca started Googling for information police say Helen haran shot her mom Pamela haran
before turning the gun on herself nothing led me to wow I think Helen's going to murder
her mom and kill herself over a house a week or two after the shootings Rebecca said Megan came to visit her in
Virginia she didn't know then Megan was a person of interest in her sister and mother's murders she just seemed very
lost I don't know any other way to put it and I think it probably took a long time for her to really wrap her arms
around my mom's gone Helen's gone Rebecca sat with her friend not thinking thinking even for a second that Megan
could be the killer no never once and that's the thing I mean she and I have had many many conversations in the years
since all this has happened and I would not have let her in my house if I thought by any stretch of the
imagination that what they accused her of was possible I just wouldn't have I'm biased she's my
friend do I think she did this and I always came back to no I do not my Spidey s never went off I do not believe
that Magan killed her mom Pam or her sister Helen but unlike Rebecca detectives hadn't ruled out that Megan could be
responsible for the double homicide what we're trying to find out which we think
you it's important to you too is to find out who killed your sister and Mom that's what the main goal of this whole
conversation is I did not kill my mom okay then who did byon H detective Megan I'm sorry I
didn't have your phone number oh no problem Megan how how you holding up I am really not
okay Megan haran called detective Brian byerson on July 17th 2017 it had been 3 days since her sister
and mother Helen and Pamela haran were found dead we're at the funeral home right now I'm
sorry right now I'm so sorry detective berson's investigation had just taken a turn and he had some questions for Megan
hey the um do you have a do you have a second okay they talked on the phone a couple of times that day in the calls
Megan went back and forth between blaming her sister Helen my sister was not my sister for many months and being
adamant that the murder suicide Theory was out of the question I just I can't imagine her doing something that violent
the same day as these calls detective byerson had learned of new evidence he asked Megan for certain details on the
phone but asked her to come into the police station later that week I'll probably have you guys come out here so
we'll make sure that it's it's uh SK like your schedule will will just allow it's just yeah and can everything be
done at once yes byon and Megan talked enough that day to fill up his recording device 2
Days Later Megan arrived at the police station with her family their understanding was that detectives had
new information she had offered to come in uh one time and give us anything that
we asked for so we took advantage of that and myself and my partner detective needles had her come in for an update uh
as we termed it detectives brought Megan to a small room for her to be fingerprinted byerson said the other
family members were taken into another room she comes up she meets with Detective Julia Elliott we take a DNA
sample from her we take her fingerprints yes okay so she's going to take care of
the of the fingerprints okay and the DNA stuff and then when she's done Steve and
I'll come in here and we'll we'll get you updated okay after they are finished with the tests Megan sat down with
Detective byerson and detective needles now thanks for coming I appreciate it well I but like I I don't I don't mean
to harp on this but like I I'm here like what do you need Megan could leave whenever she
wanted byerson told her as much if you want to leave let me know I will walk you back downstairs okay okay I I just
want to make sure that you understand that you're I'm not holding you here okay and then we then start going
through this update with her and is this a conversation that's on video it is it's about 4 and a half hours long and
most of that is because it at some point we just can't get her to leave detective
byerson sat across from her and leaned back a little in the chair we didn't have enough at that time to charge her
officially so we wanted to get a statement on the record from her the interview went on and on for hours at
times it got contentious she had very inappropriate emotional responses at at weird times she got very angry at
us for weird things we asked her if she'd ever done any drugs anything about drug use anything oh my God I never have
no all right no I'm sorry I'm sorry a really strong r at one point in the interview Megan
told the investigators that she had called police to report two suspicious men in the neighborhood one one black
the other Asian this is something Megan had brought up to byerson before she said she reported the suspicious men the
day before the murders you guys know about I had to call the police or my mom asked me to call the police cuz there
was those two guys what what heard detective John vicory remember he was the cop at the father's house on the day
of the tragedy he'd recorded Megan talking about these two men on the day of the shootings I had to call the
police over this guys and you just know when someone like that's not somebody that's in your neighborhood kind of
thing cuz we're very quiet neighborhood Megan told vicory that to be safe her mom asked her to hide the rifle in the
family room I don't think she would ever you know in a rush try to get it out it
was in a bag detective byerson checked into Megan's story but no one besides her had mentioned these men to police
the only call that made about these guys in the neighborhood is from Megan haran
another issue detective byerson wanted to nail down was all those houses Pamela haran was supposedly buying and selling
he asked about the one Megan was buying with her husband what is the situation with that house you guys are are you
guys buying how's that working okay so she was going to do a wire change and she said it's too late for me to do
cashier's check um cuz she just thought she was like I can always do a wire transfer that's what she just thought
she said why she had done it before you think with another house that wire transfer for more than
$400,000 would never go through that money didn't leave Pamela's account so what was the problem Megan blamed a
series of complications there was an issue about which bank account the money for the
house would come from she told detective berson that Pamela was going to use the
money from a family trust yeah because at first we thought the trust were already going to be dissolved it was
supposed to happen May 24th and it never did or I don't know if it's legally a mess I don't know what
happened I don't know you don't know much about the trust my mom just told us it's you're going to be fine you can
have that for your house but that didn't turn out to be true Megan wouldn't get that house and by the next day that
Friday Pamela and Helen haran would be dead here's detective needles and did she
ever wire the money to them she had okay that's what happened Thursday this is why Thursday is very important for cuz I
realize you there this is a big amount of money and I realize because of what happened you guys are like I that I
we're doing what suddenly Megan's mood shifted they're looking at me looking at you yeah and I get oh I mean looking at
you because you might be responsible is that what you're talking about yeah by then Megan understood she
was in their sights 1 hour into the interview Megan showed no signs of wrapping up her
version of events with detectives byerson and needles I'm sorry that's okay I mean Friday's difficult very
difficult for you it's understandable but obviously Friday is important they're surprised how long Megan stayed
with them in that little room at the police station it's probably like more like 3 hours of actual back and fourth
and an hour and a half of just like we're trying to figure out like she won't leave she even tried to convince
them that her cooperation was a sign of Innocence I gave you every my clothing I
gave you my finger I gave you everything because of that why would I give that if I if I knew I was guilty as
the interview progressed the detectives questions became more and more direct they brought up the 911 calls from
Helen's boyfriend Carlos Gutierrez because there's are a lot of phone calls and there's a lot from
Carlos she never told me she didn't tell me to L her that Carlos called her no but he says you answer the phone and
that calls on the records the detectives bore in saying they didn't believe Megan
she claimed she'd never spoken to Carlos when they knew she had I have never talked to him never
the the closest thing I have ever gotten to him 4th of July they were coming to get the
blankets and I was lit I was at the bottom of the stairs my mom was like no no no they're still in the driveway but
still now you've never spoken to them but as we told you last episode Carlos said he spoke to Megan for nearly 10
minutes while he tried to get her to put Helen on the phone then the detectives asked her outright about what Carlos
told 911 that Helen said she killed their mom why would he say something like that well
what would be his motive to implicate you yeah why you why would he pick you he knows I live
there and I think right I don't I don't want to say what I think oh we want you anything to help you say I don't want to
say I don't want to say I don't want to say what I think I don't want to say what I think
you think your s killed your mother there's no way I would have I would have heard it Megan's response
here doesn't line up with what she originally told police she had said she and her daughter Molly left the house
before the shootings so it's unclear what she meant by I would have heard it here's Megan again the only time I
wasn't I was downstairs I I would assume I I would still hear something like that and my mom was with me like how how
how I don't understand like I don't I just don't understand how how what how that would have
happened I don't I don't understand I'm sorry I just I don't I don't know it seemed that Megan was struggling to keep
her story straight she wasn't sure Helen was the killer anymore the detective started this
interview not knowing what they'd get but some recently discovered evidence had made them curious about how Megan
planned to pay for her new house in West Virginia she said her mom was going to wire the money she initiated the wire
transfer her story had changed yet again Megan had told police that something got
tripped up when her mother wired the money the detectives waited before pointing out the holes in Megan's store
if she's going to talk let her talk we were texting I mean you guys got my phone you know like give you my phone
you can see the text that were back and forth she was like okay listen I froze the accounts I'm going to deal with this
when I get back down there up until this moment Megan insisted that her mom called the bank but you heard Megan say
it right there to the detectives and they had looked through her phone the evidence was clear but detectives had
some evidence Megan didn't know existed the recordings from Capital 1 they could
listen to who made the request to wire money and they offered to play Megan some of the tape you know when the when
you call the bank to do a wire transfer you know they record the calls right okay so one of the things that's always
been bothering me a little bit yeah um is that call meanwhile in the other room where Megan's family is waiting
police were playing the calls for them too they recognized the voice when they arrived at the police station Megan's
family was standing by her but now so they're hearing the calls and I think what's going on is that they're
realizing on that day that oh my God like there is a good chance that she actually did
this on the next episode of blood is thicker and incriminating call good morning thank you for calling cap One
Bank my name is Brooks would you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen hargen hello missan thank you for using our
automated system for verification what can I do for you today I was just transferred to you I was told that I
could do a wire transfer online wait is that Pamela [Music] from 48 hours this is blood is thicker
the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
producers Sarah elely Michelle sigona Lauren white and Josh joerger Jamie Benson is the senior
producer for paramont audio and Mora walls is the senior story editor recording assistants from Alan
Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan Marcus and
48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music
Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
Katherine St Louis and John Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed
by hansdale shei he also soundd designed and mixed the episodes we also use music
by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our fact Checker our production managers
are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter Van sand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and
review it helps more people find it and hear our reporting you can listen to blood is thicker the haran family
killings early and AD free right now by joining wry Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcasts thanks for
[Music] listening thank you for calling Capital One Bank my name is jff me I have your
name please hey Jeff my name is Felix I'm multile Capital One I've got a customer Pamela
haran the phone call you're hearing is from July 13th 2017 the day before Helen and Pamela haran were found dead inside
their home in mlan Virginia on the call two employees from Capital 1 Bank are talking about Pamela haran earlier that
day someone had called the bank asking to transfer hundreds of thousands of dollars from Pamela's account Felix is
with the wire callback authentication team he's trying to speak with Pamela to confirm that the request had come from
her here's Felix talking to his colleague I've got a customer Pamela haran who uh when I called her back she
did not call in to create a wire request and she's the only signer on this account so whoever requested that wire
transfer wasn't Pamela and uh she asked us to uh to transfer her to you guys for
fraud uh because it looks like they tried to send out a $419,000 wire request oh yeah you know just you know
chunk Chang before he brings Pamela into the conversation Felix warns Jeff that she's suspicious that they're really
Bank employees she was a little bit weary uh you know not trusting that we're actually Capital One who calling
her Felix puts Pamela on the line with Jeff and she is immediately skeptical hello yes hello
hi who am I speaking to who am I speaking to my name is Jeff with Capital One okay this is Pamela Hansen haran at
this point Pamela has only been told that someone tried to move money from her account Jeff is about to tell her
how much I do have your account in front of me so I hear that um somebody tried to do a wire out of your account for 400
and some odd thousand what yeah that's what the other gentl was saying 400 and some OD thousand he
said Pamela is stunned and insists she never agreed to any such transfer I did not do that well no I know he called you
because of a pending wire and then you told him that you didn't do any wires is that correct correct correct okay okay
you made me nervous for a minute those those accounts are not to be touched period can you freeze all my accounts
yeah yeah actually I've already done that police would later explain that Pamela was on her way to Pennsylvania to
meet with her daughter Ashley when she got this call she asked her other daughter Megan who was still home in
mlan Virginia to go into the bank and figure out what was going on in the meantime Jeff from Capital One reassures
Pamela you don't need to worry your funds are are are safe all right thank you you're more than welcome you have a
great day you as well thank you byebye Pamela was adamant she wasn't the one who initiated the wire transfer
so who did after the killings police went back and listened to the mystery caller thank you for calling cap one my
name is Brooks would you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen haran do you recognize that voice detectives thought
they did do we think we killed your mom absolutely yes oh my God I'm Peter Van Sant from 48 hours
this is blood is thicker the hargan family killings episode 4 the [Music] impersonator after Pamela and Helen
haran were found dead on Friday July 14th 2017 police learned about that call made
to Capital 1 the day before the murders it was baffling so they listened to the call a little more
closely good morning thank you for calling kaan Bank my name is Brooks would you tell me your name please
Pamela Hansen hargen this is the earlier call from that same day the caller claimed to be Pamela haran but the voice
sounded different I was just transferred to you I was told that I could do a wire
transfer online not able to do a wire online but I can try to help you by Fone the caller said
she needed the money for her daughter who was closing on her new house that day what time is is the closing in 20
minutes okay it's it's very unlikely it will be there in 20 minutes Brook with Capital One told the caller that someone
would call her back to verify the details and if everything checked out the funds would be released an hour or
so after that can you also verify because my phone numbers were inverted I think on my account this is my home
phone number and this is where I'm at so this is the phone number that needs to be used I just don't want to miss
anything right right and the number that you gave me match what we have on file police discovered that the caller
clearly not Pamela answered the multiple choice security questions accurately all right next question what
color is your 1991 Chevrolet Cavalier is it black chrome green yellow or you've never been associated with
this never been associated with a Cavalier all right this caller posing as Pamela also knew she had other daughters
I'm going to be doing this again for my other daughter in about 3 weeks not suspecting any fraud the Capital One
employee then asked how much money she wanted transferred okay let me get the exact amount it's
um 49,000 $34. 77 that's the exact payment the real Pamela haran would cancel about an hour
later the next day Capital 1 received yet another call from that woman again purporting to be Pamela haran at that
time the bank had no way of knowing that Pamela had been shot may I have your first and last name please Pamela Hansen
haran thank you I understand you want to complete a wire transfer with us today uh yes we attempted to yesterday and
there was a bit of a mixup so we would like to do it again now okay this is where things unraveled for the
impersonator remember Felix from earlier in the episode well he happened to get assigned yet again to call Pam haran to
verify the wire transfer Felix with Capital One call to speak with Pamela Hansen this is she uh
Hansen har this time this Pamela didn't seem to recognize fix's voice or name and may
please have your name again uh my name is Felix we spoke yesterday oh I'm sorry I thought you said Stuart Felix verified
some personal information and the impersonator approved the transfer anything else I can help you with Before
I Let You Go uh no and thank you so much for yesterday I really appreciate it yeah no worries of
course 3 days after the shootings someone else from the banks fraud division called detective Brian byerson
the representative said that they saw the news of Pamela's murder and thought police might want to know about the wire
transfers and the message basically reads hey this is who I I am this is who I'm with capital 1 fraud we saw the news
regarding uh the murder or the the death of Pamela haran Capital 1 sent the police all the
recordings of their calls when detectives listened they soon identified the phony Pamela they recognized the
voice as the sister who had gun residue on her hands who talked their ears off in a police interview 5 days after after
the shootings this caller also said she needed money for a house in West Virginia all signs were pointing to
Megan haran so now we have a really really really good motive for murder I think
she thought she was going to get the money we would think that this was a murder suicide she would get her house
and she would just be in West Virginia Living her life I don't think she ever thought that we'd figure this out but
detectives did C on and plan to let Megan know they asked her to come into the station for an update their plan was
to play her the calls and see how she would react you know when the when you call the bank to do a wire transfer you
know they record the calls right [Music] okay Megan arrived at the police station
not knowing that investigators planned an audio Ambush those Capital One recordings it was July 19th 5 days since
the murders Megan had been talking with detectives Brian byerson and Steve needles for nearly an hour when they
brought up those calls so one of the things that's always been bothering me a little bit yeah um
is that call I'm going to play the call for you all right good morning thank you for calling my
name is would you tell me your name please thank you for automated system for verification do for today I was just
transferred to you I was told that I could do a wi online no they kept the audio plain while they peppered her with
questions were you with her or anything not able to do a wire online Thursday morning yeah detective
byerson said he hoped she could explain something that happens on the call 6 minutes in the caller impersonating
Pamela asked the Capital One employee to wait while they call someone else byerson suspected the caller was
reaching out to her husband is it okay if I just give him a call to let him know that I'm actually
doing this over the phone because they were panicking going to take forever with me in the bank okay sure is that
sure you just want to put me a I can keep you on the phone while I do this okay detective byerson confronted
Megan Point Blank listen is that your mom come on back it's not it's time to tell the
truth I know who that you called your husband okay and I know that because when I looked at your phone dump right
armed with phone records the detectives told Megan they know she called her husband at the same time the person in
the recording makes a phone call initially Megan didn't confess but then she gave in okay who who is that on the
phone it is me it's you right the detectives didn't back off they played her the Capital One call you heard at
the top of this episode The One detectives were certain was the real Pamela somebody tried to do a wire out
of your account for 400 and some odd thousand what suddenly Megan started apologizing I'm sorry I'm sorry the
detectives kept pushing they wanted Megan to say why she was sorry just tell us the truth that's all we want to know
I need I have to understand it the problem is you can continue to liue it just yourself a deeper hole I was listen
we okay I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine in the police video you can see detective needles move his chair toward Megan just
a foot or two away as he pressed her for answers you're trying to think right now
how am I going to talk my way out of this no no you think I okay do we think we killed your mom absolutely yes we oh
my God yes we do in his rush to confront Megan detective needles misspoke they thought she killed Pamela she caught you
wiring on Friday it's okay absolutely convince me that you didn't we have you not right there Megan whispered I did
not kill my mom but cops had other new evidence to ask Megan about there was also a bank statement this was one of
the financial documents detective Julia Elliot spotted the day Helen and Pamela were murdered here's what Detective
Elliot told us it was a photocopy of Pamela's spreadsheet that she used for all her accounts account numbers and
passcodes it was also a photocopy of Pamela's bank statement Detective Elliot had
photographed the documents but when detectives returned with a warrant to collect them they were gone detectives
had learned that Megan sent the West Virginia real estate agent a bank statement with her name on it but
suspiciously the the amount sent matched what was in her mother's bank account not hers the detectives presented Megan
with their Theory she shot her mother then her sister Helen so all this looks like you killed your mom and sister so
help us would have let me get Megan's saying no way her sister would have let her walk away if she'd shot their mother
what you're not saying is no I didn't kill no no no I said no I didn't that's detective needles laughing he's
signaling that he didn't believe her finally the detectives decided to tell her exactly what they think happened and
how they think Pamela was already dead by the time Capital One got the second request to make a wire transfer I
already know that your mom is dead when that phone call is made detective berson
said he thought Megan shot Pamela before she called the on July 14th remember someone had covered
Pamela's body with a quilt they also found her cell phone set on top of a pool of blood leaning against the
quilt how does her phone get over to where her body is and set on top of where she's found she always carries
her no no she couldn't listen to me no I'm sorry okay it's fine she I'm telling you
I'm telling you where her phone is found she didn't drop it there it's impossible
detective needles leaned in again directly accusing Megan you shot your mom you covered her up with a blanket
cuz you could live with the guilt oh no and then you used your phone and you got
your money for your settlement but the bank was already on to you and and what nobody was ever going to come to the
house we you found that through yet then why does your sister Callos and tell him the truth remember
Helen the youngest sister had called her boyfriend I do because he spends an hour
trying to call 911 to make sure the love of his life is fine meanwhile unknown to
Megan Ashley and Steve haran Megan's sister and father were listening to these same bank calls in another room in
the police station along with Megan's husband Frank what you're not realizing is your family is being told all this
stuff right now oh I know yeah right now they're going to be swimming and qu they're going to be they're up there
right now the interview went on and on the detectives dug into more details about the wire transfer they accused
Megan of lying that's a complete lie why in the world would you lie to if I I'm here investigating the murder of your
mother and the death of your sister which is undetermined as to how she died okay you understand what I'm saying I'm
investigating that during that investigation to try to figure out what happened to the two people you're
supposed to love and then Megan seemed to break she seemed to contemplate her child growing up
motherless blame me blame me listen my family's been to enough let Molly grow up without me you have got to unload
this blame me that's fine there's nothing just blame me Megan seemed to be crumbling
but detectives still didn't have what they needed a full confession detectives established they
had plenty of circumstantial evidence but only a few days after the shootings they needed more that could stand up in
court so the question was would Megan confess [Music] Megan haran had come into the police
station around 5:00 in the evening there's been some issues over the last couple hours talking I'm sorry I'm sorry
I I understand it's hard and Megan was still there nearly 4 and a half hours later again and again she denied making
the capital 1 calls and then suddenly her story changed at that point had she given you approval to act like her and
to she sent me she even sent me in the Capital One bank to verify that everything had been frozen Megan not
only admitted to making the calls she claimed Pamela wanted her to be the one to request the wire transfer despite the
fact her mother was on tape saying she knew nothing of that transfer Megan was starting to sound defeated so during
this whole process you know many many times you said blame me blame me blame me just blame me I know but why I would
think you'd be more concerned with Molly Molly is Megan's daughter I am concerned
about Molly but so but if you're locked up forever and ever amen what happens to
Molly she has my husband Megan still hadn't admitted she had anything to do with the murders of her mother and
sister so she could walk away from this interview at any time the door was wide open though she didn't seem to
understand that I'm not allowed to go yes you we told you that from the very beginning course you are you're free to
leave I'm allowed to stand up and walk out why would I do that when you you guys are accusing me of something like
this I don't understand you're saying you think I did this but I'm allowed to leave Megan thought she was being played
no because you told me that you guys had just he us telling my family everything
and that yeah you believe I do I did this that's our belief right now you're you're you're a prime suspect absolutely
that doesn't mean that you were locking you up and taking you to jail tonight we're just talking what Megan didn't
realize was at the time of this interview the case against her was relatively weak later I asked detective
byerson about this after the police interview he told me the investigation was far from over so murder
investigations can be extremely complex um and especially in something like this
where you have a family member who you believe has killed almost her entire family her
entire immediate family other than her father and her middle sister you not only have to be
sure you have to be right and that decision is not just it does not just rest on me I can't just go
to the to the magistrate and swear out a murder warrant so Megan left that day with her
family a free woman Days Go By no arrest weeks turn into months during this time
Megan and her husband used a VA loan to buy a different home in West Virginia Megan's friend Rebecca wolf told us that
Megan decided to start a new life out of state she immediately got involved in her new community so Molly is getting
settled in her new school settled in her new New Girl Scout Troop um finding the
new church getting settled into the church Rebecca said that Megan went to work with her at her pet rescue I had
held a huge fundraiser for one of the rescue missions that we worked with so she actually helped me set the whole
thing up so we spent several months researching vendors getting vendors locked on Megan her husband and Molly were
finally all under their own roof together at last but Megan was in a kind of limbo because the investigators still
had her in their sights I asked byerson if Megan had killed her mother and sister then that would mean a brutal
killer was free to kill again during all those months all I can say to that is we
kept an eye on her we knew where she was prosecutors in Virginia convened a grand
jury to to look at the evidence and decide whether Megan should be charged investigators had to wait for documents
forensic accountants had to comb through layers of Records which also delayed any
possible indictment all of those investigative steps took almost a year and four months
before we had everything back and we got the okay to indict her for those two murders Megan's borrowed time was coming
to an end detective byerson and a team of officers made the three-hour drive from
the DC area to morgant town we all went up there Megan haran that morning dropped her daughter off at
school and once she left school grounds we had a local officer uh conduct a traffic stop on her and she was arrested
detective byon and Megan came face to face again what did you see in her eyes nothing
when I look at Megan um I don't see much behind behind those eyes it's kind of empty to me she
has no remorse for what she did at all Megan was taken to a local police station in West Virginia for another
interview before she was brought back to Northern Virginia that same day the Fairfax
County Police Department updated the public at a news conference for the first time since they called the
killings a murder suicide we did arrest 35-year-old Megan haran in West Virginia
this morning for the murders of her mom Pamela haran and sister Helen haran July
14th 2017 in mlan understandably reporters had questions could I ask them why you
didn't put out another directive uh to the public that it was a double murder because our community had so many
questions they were told it was a murder of suicide and then you know you all knew it was double murder all along do
you not think maybe the public should have been informed of that yeah so we always drive to inform our community um
this case in particular we we'll we'll always debrief what we did and why we did it um I I will say an investigative
strategy is to find the person that's responsible for double murder uh is is a is of utmost
importance the fact that cops had waited so long long made Megan's friend Rebecca
wolf skeptical that they had a strong case why'd you wait 18 months to arrest her Rebecca learned Megan had been
arrested while she was listening to the radio on her way home from yoga I never in a million years saw this coming and I
heard that name and thank God I was turning into my road at that point because I probably would have wrecked
cuz I just immediately started balling she thought this had to be a mistake after the arrest Rebecca traveled to be
at Megan's trial and the hargens they had to face the possibility that Megan might have pinned the murders on her
sister Helen and why then did Helen have to die I think Helen knew what happened I
mean I will never understand I don't think in in any capacity why it is that Megan went upstairs and told her that
she had shot their mother I have no idea why she did that I can only assume that at some
point after telling her that she realized that was probably not a great [Music] idea from 48 hours this is blood is
thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
producers Josh joerger Sarah elely Holz Michelle sagona and Lauren white Jamie Benson is the senior producer for
Paramount audio and Mara walls is the senior story editor recording assistants from Alan Pang and Marlin
polycarp special thanks to paramont podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter
schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was written and
produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan
Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed by hansdale she he also soundd designed
and mixed the episodes we also use music by Blue Dot sessions Katherine nuhan is
our fact Checker our production managers are Tama balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanat if you're
enjoying the show be sure to rate and review it helps more people find it and here our reporting for early and adree
access to blood is thicker subscribe to 48 hours plus on Apple podcast or wry Plus on the wry app start
your free trial today thanks for [Music] listening this episode contains graphic
audio and references to self harm and Family Violence please listen with care I think that she is is
contemplating how to murder her family that night and she wants to do that for what purpose the sole purpose of greed
money when detective Brian byerson first walked through the crime scene on Dean Drive in mlan Virginia he saw a maob
jigsaw puzzle and he wasn't yet sure how the bloody pieces fit together but now nearly 16 months after the the shootings
he was ready to make an arrest detective byerson told me he believed Megan started plotting the murders after her
first failed attempt to wire money from her mother's account and it may have all
come down to as strange as it may seem her mother's cell phone that's how Petty this whole thing
is she knows that she has to have her mother's cell phone because she has to answer that phone and she has to
regurgitate a security number that they're going to give her on that cell phone and in order for her to get that
phone she's going to have to kill her mom that petty that petty but what about Helen what motivated Megan to also shoot
her youngest sister perhaps it was to eliminate a witness even if it was her own flesh and blood I think Helen knew
what happened I mean I will'll never understand I don't think in in any capacity why it is that Megan went
upstairs and told her that she had shot their mother I have no idea why she did that I can only assume that at some
point after telling her that she realized that was probably not a great idea and realized that the only way out
for her was to Stage this scene as if Helen had killed Pamela and then took her own life so she could just walk away
and she'd get the money as she thought and then everybody would just blame Helen two lives a sister a mother a
family destroyed to buy a house all for a house in fact when Megan finally went on trial in
2022 that's the story prosecutors plan to tell the eldest of three daughters wanted her mother to buy her a house
when she didn't get her way she chose to kill her mother then kill and frame her youngest sister it's
just an immeasurable grief and tragedy all the way around Megan's defense team embraced the
theory that Helen was most likely the murderer they said there was a way she could have killed herself with that long
rifle using her foot in fact an expert for the prosecution had given Megan's lawyers an opening it's possible for a
person to use their toe to engage the trigger that is certainly possible and that claim would change the course of
the [Music] trial I'm Peter Van Sant from 48 hours this is blood is thicker the haran
family killings episode 5 toe on the trigger I've never seen a case like this and how would you characterize it
particularly deliberate willful and cruel Tyler basilla served as lead prosecutor on Megan haran's case this is
an individual who murdered two of her closest family members for money and for no other reason basilla and his
co-counsel plan to tell the jury the story of a calculating killer I'm telling them the facts and showing them
that we're going to demonstrate over the next several weeks that every shred of evidence shows that Megan haran was the
one who committed these murders and she did it for greed and it's not Helen haran Helen haran was an innocent 24y
old girl having a normal day the prosecution laid out how it believes Megan murdered Helen then
showed how it believes Megan tried to frame her sister as the killer there was no evidence that Helen had done any of
those things and all the evidence was that Megan did remember to make police think Helen was suicidal Megan had said
Helen was depressed and under the spell of a bad boyfriend she had also given officers a motive for murder that Helen
was angry with her mom for cancelling a contract on a new house in Aldi Virginia
but prosecutors asserted that none of it was true it was all just a smoke screen
there was no evidence that the house was being canceled in fact they had an appointment for 2 days later to go meet
with the blinds guy when you talk to the real estate agent the real estate agent
says there's a whole process you have to go through to stop the purchase of a house they had never once initiated that
prosecutors also countered Megan's character attacks on Helen and her boyfriend Carlos gutier there was no
evidence of drugs whatsoever there was no evidence that Carlos was was bad to hel if anything he seemed like a very
loving guy Carlos played a key role at the trial testifying for the prosecution he was very emotional even before he
walked in the courtroom he was emotional during his entire testimony especially when he had to talk about Helen um this
is not something he has gotten over I mean this is stuck with him while the court did not release
audio we have reviewed Court transcripts and 48 Hours producers attended some of
the trial Carlos was emphatic that Helen was not suicidal not when he spoke to her the morning she died not ever she
was not a person that was plotting a murder thinking her life was was ready to kill herself Carlos said that Helen
was scared and that she told him Megan confessed the unthinkable shooting the woman who gave her life and loving
support in Cold Blood he's an eyewitness without his eyes but through his ears and he was sort of there through Helen's
words Whitney Gregory was co-counsel for the prosecution she said that Carlos was
genuinely heartbroken on the stand the intangibles of him just crying staring down Megan it was there's no way he was
acting and just that raw emotion showed that there's no way that Helen could have done this Carlos's emotional
testimony was followed by another compelling Witness after initially defending her sister
Megan Ashley haran agreed to testify against her for the prosecution she was the middle sister by
birth and caught in the middle by this tragedy between two sisters she had always loved Ashley presents herself
very stoically she's very strong independent but she's grieving in a way that none of us have ever experienced
and I think because she comes off so stoically people may think she's not as upset as she really is adding to the
stress of her testimony was the fact that Ashley was pregnant with her first child when she testified she was eight
almost 9 months pregnant and she kept her composure with one exception she got very te eyed when I showed her an
autopsy photo of her mom and sister but she's grieving like anyone would so for Ashley haran one day she's having lunch
with Mom and her niece and getting Snapchats from her sister and the next day her entire family is either murdered
or suspected of murder mean she lost everything in in a [Music] day at trial Ashley strongly defended
her sister Helen but as you'll recall back when she was initially interviewed by detective Brian byerson Ashley
suggested Helen might have been the killer prosecutors said that Ashley had been in shock and was simply paring what
she had been told by her big sister Megan out of all the family members is the only one that ever suggests Helen
did this because mom was going to pull the house no one in the rest of the family had ever heard that they never
even suggested it it's important because and Helen always talked to her sister Ashley and Ashley would have known this
Ashley would absolutely known yeah because Ashley was close with Pam Pamela was actually visiting Ashley the day
before the murders she was around when K Owen called and said hey someone tried to take all this money out of your
account Ashley knew that that all the stuff Megan saying's not true in cross-examination the defense
attacked Ashley's credibility accusing her of lying out of self-interest they claimed Ashley wanted
the money from Pamela's estate all to herself and if Megan took the fall all Ashley would inherit Millions she has to
grieve the loss of her family grapple with the fact that her sister is a murderer and then be targeted for
somehow wanting all this estate and that's why she's blaming Megan but it turns out Ashley had a very good reason
for her change of heart according to the prosecution she had listened to the Capital One calls of Megan impersonating
their mother she knew 100% through the evidence and in her gut that Megan is the killer so
she testified for us testified factually and I think it was very powerful for the
jury to see that Ashley believed in her heart and through the evidence that Megan did this heinous
act [Music] when Ashley haran was on the stand Megan's defense attorneys played her
recordings of what she previously told police long before she knew the facts of the case when was the last time that
Helen had ever talked about hurting herself with me it was probably last year I want to say this call between
Ashley and detective Brian berson was recorded 5 days after the the killings did you know that there was your mom
was um financially supporting the the buying of the house with Megan I knew that she was not not afterwards but
right right I knew that she was going to be helping them with purchasing a house
yes okay and she'd agreed with all that mhm in this conversation before she heard the Capital One calls Ashley
backed up Megan's story you didn't know how much your mom was giving her but you
knew that she was helping her out right for the house for the house yes however on this stand Ashley claimed to not
recall these conversations 48 Hours consultant and criminal defense expert Matt troano
reviewed her testimony so it's my understanding Peter that during Ashley's cross-examination she says 150 times
thereabouts that she doesn't remember certain things and that's a lot of times to forget what you said there's two ways
to look at that number one is that she doesn't remember right number two is that she doesn't want to say things that
are not helpful for the prosecution that she has an interest vested interest financial interest emotional interest in
protecting her mother and her sister Helen and that she is not going to be cooperative the defense tried to use
Ashley's memory lapses in their favor all they needed to do was so doubt that Megan was the killer it's not the job of
the jury to answer the question of who did it the job of the jury is to determine if the state the prosecution
has proven the case Beyond A Reasonable [Music] Doubt and Megan's lawyers zeroed in on
other curious some might say baffling facts remember Helen didn't try to escape the haran home even after her
mother had been shot and her sister had confessed to The Killing Helen didn't even call
911 and Carlos testified that she also asked him not to report anything here's Matt troano again she actually says
don't don't call 911 as I understand it the question is why why why would that ever be reasonable what is the
reasonable explanation for Helen to not want to get help I asked detective berson that same question that is one of
the pieces to the puzzle that we'll never have we don't know why she didn't call 911 we don't know why she didn't
leave but prosecutor Whitney Gregory offered a potential answer perhaps Helen was trying to protect Molly Megan's
daughter I think it could be survival mentality she believes that Molly's in the other room if Megan's capable of
killing her own mother who else is she capable of killing in the home so I think in part it's just she couldn't
wrap her hand around what happened and also to just trying to protect herself and other survivors in the household but
Helen at this point is not a 12-year-old she's a University graduate two two degrees a very bright woman and she
tells Carlos I can hear my mother gurgling downstairs and she doesn't call 911 to
get medical help for her mom that makes no sense she also is in the home with a craze Maniac with a gun and so I think
she's barricading herself in a bathroom she doesn't know what to do she panics prosecutors hope to convince jurors how
the crime scene clearly indicated Megan killed Helen that Helen didn't pull the trigger herself but then the trial took
an unexpected turn a witness for the prosecution can eded there was one possible way Helen could have taken her
own life Matt trano said the defense saw an opening the critical question is could it have been done if it is
impossible to do it that's one thing if it is implausible that's a different thing
[Music] in the second week of the trial the prosecution and defense focused on one
critical question was it possible that Helen could have first killed her mother and then herself with a long rifle the
Fatal bullet had traveled from a wound at the top of her head downward which seemed physically
impossible the prosecution called Iris delig graph to the stand I'm a forensic specialist and I was
hired to look into a reconstruction of the events that happened when Helen haran died in the bathroom one of the
first things I do is I look to the autopsy what do we know from the autopsy that's fact Beyond change in this case
she had an entry wound through the bone at the top of her head and an an exit in
the lower part of the cranium going down into the right neck with that kind of wound graph didn't think it was likely
that shot herself top of the head is usually a sign that something else is happening someone else is in that room
certainly for a downward to the top of the head yes graph said she tested several scenarios and showed me her
digital reconstructions of the crime scene this is a uh forensic animation a virtual model that is a depiction of the
data the jury was not allowed to see graph's reconstructions in court but they mostly challenged the idea that
Helen died by Suicide since the autopsy revealed the bullet entered the top of her head graph tested all the ways Helen
could have pointed the rifle and still reach the trigger in most scenarios Helen's fingers couldn't reach fully
extended we still need another five inches so she's five inches short of reaching the trigger if the gun was held
at this angle and based just on my experience and covering a lot of these cases I've never seen a
suicide with a weapon a rifle plac on someone's head by themselves like this have you uh not with this particular
trajectory but there was one scenario where graph found Helen could have reached the trigger using her
toe people have done that use like their toe to engage the trigger that has been
done yes okay try to imagine this for a moment in graph's digital reconstruction
Helen is sitting on the toilet leaning forward so that the top of her head is against the Gun Barrel in that scenario
Helen could have used her toe to pull the trigger yes her legs are long enough that her toe could reach the trigger but
what do you think of this scenario basically you're standing on your head to try to to get to this position which
makes it very difficult to find the trigger and the other thing is that you're leaning so far forward that your
center of gravity is over the floor not over the toilet seat which you could fall down exactly she conceded this
scenario is technically possible but graph didn't think Helen killed herself someone else has to engage the trigger
so this is a homicide not suicide in your opinion this would be homicide yet graphs finding that Helen's legs were
long enough to reach the the trigger raised enough doubt that the defense made it part of their argument only a
producer of a movie could come up with this and even then I don't think an audience would even buy that even in
Hollywood prosecutor Whitney Gregory was not convinced and she didn't think anyone else would buy the tow trigger
Theory it's utterly nonsensical for several reasons the defense attorneys even discussed how Helen socks could
have prevented her from leaving Prince on the trigger I asked prosecutor Tyler basilla about the theory I mean I
thought it was ridiculous I'll tell you this that in combination with them using
the word framed that Helen framed her sister to me meant that they didn't have a defense at all because if you frame
somebody this isn't the way you do it but remember all the defense needed to do was convince one juror that there was
reasonable doubt that Megan haran was the murderer for her part Megan chose not to take the
stand and defend herself the jury deliberated on Thursday March 24th 2022 took off Friday and returned a
verdict that following Monday guilty on all four charges so first degree of Pamela first degree of Helen and then
the two Associated firearm the commission of the felony charges and how could how did Megan react to the
verdict at least for me as a prosecutor I don't want to look over at that table I think it's not very classy I'm just
sort of In the Zone trying not to pass out detective Brian byerson who had been working this case from the very
beginning was also in the courtroom there's some relief there when that verdict is
read uh but more so there's a sense of uh I think weight lifted off of Everybody uh I know that it was very
emotional for Ashley haran sitting in there listening to that the jury recommended two life
sentences a mlan woman could be headed to prison for the rest of her life for killing her mother and her sister jurors
found Megan haran guilty of the murders and staging the crime scene to look like
it was a murder suicide but the Saga over whether Megan haran killed her mother and sister wasn't over not yet
that argument about Helen using her toe on the trigger caused one juror to go Rogue and what she did next would put
the verdict and the entire case in Jeopardy that's next time on the finale of blood is
thicker from 48 hours this is blood is thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48
Hours original reporting by 48 Hours producers Josh joerger Sarah elely Holz Michelle sagona and Lauren white Jamie
Benson is the senior producer for paramont audio and Mara walls is the senior story editor recording assistants
from Alan Pang and Marlin polycarp special thanks to paramont podcast vice president Megan Marcus and
48 Hours senior producer Peter schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music
Entertainment it was written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are
Katherine St Louis and Jonathan Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulen theme and original music composed
by hansdale shei he also soundd designed and mixed the episodes we also use music
by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is our fact Checker our production managers are
tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanand if you're enjoying the show be sure to rate and
review it helps more people find it and here our reporting you can listen to blood is thicker the haran family
killings early and AD free right now by joining wry Plus in the wry app or on Apple podcast
thanks for [Music] listening anytime we were sitting and awaiting a verdict from a jury is a
little bit nerve-wracking detective Brian berson anxiously waited in the hallway at the
Fairfax County Courthouse while jurors considered Megan haran's fate you know never really know what a jury's thinking
during the trial detective byerson says he rarely knows what is happening inside
the courtroom as a witness he is forbidden from hearing other testimony until it's time for closing arguments I
can't talk to the other Witnesses so I end up just sitting in the hallway or sitting in a conference room by myself
and just kind of wondering for weeks you know I hope it's going well berson says
he's spends hours studying people's faces as they go in and out of court he'll notice whether prosecutors walk by
in a good mood or if a witness seems upset after they testify but outside of those glimpses
byerson doesn't have any other idea how a trial is going including the case against Megan haran juries can be funny
and of course detective byon was hoping that when the jurors heard all the evidence laid out they'd convict Megan
I've always thought that once you explain this to anybody they generally at the end go oh yeah she absolutely did
this it's it's clear as day right but you don't know what's going on behind those closed doors with the
jury after 3 weeks of testimony and two days of jury deliberations detective byerson could finally exhale Megan haran
was found guilty a first-degree murder for killing her mother and youngest sister it's like an emotional rush I
mean you feel you feel good I remember feeling like the jury understood what happened
here a mlan woman could be headed to prison for the rest of her life for killing her mother and her sister jurors
found Megan haran guilty of the murders and staging the crime scene to look like
it was a murder suicide detective byerson thought thought it was all over except for the
sentencing he was wrong a wrench or perhaps a sledgehammer got thrown into the proceedings after Megan's conviction the
defense alerted the judge that they had discovered juror misconduct a woman on the jury allegedly had gone Rogue one of
the jurors had volunteered that they had done an experiment jurors are supposed to stick
with what they're told in court not reenact a crime scene on their own so the judge made a
decision uh to vacate the the jury verdict and told us that we would have to retry Megan haran it was anyone's
guess whether the second jury would agree with the first I'm Peter Van Sant from 48 hours
this is the finale of blood is thicker the haran family killings episode 6 the aftermath throughout this podcast one
man has known the case best detective Brian byerson the detectives in the family are the only ones that have been
dealing with it since day one byerson started with the Fairfax County Police Department about two
decades ago he's worked homicides for nearly 10 years and he spent six of those years
regularly talking to Megan's sister Ashley haran at times he said they spoke nearly every week there is a very small
group of people in the world that have been intimately involved in these murder cases where they are like a
direct victim of what happened and in this case it's so much worse because the perpetrator of these
crimes is also a member of your family victim's families say byerson brings a calmness to dark situations he
gives his time freely to suffering family members like Ashley after all the hargan murders are
just one of many he's assigned with at any given time we can only cherish these wins for a short amount of time because
we live in tragedy berson understands he's the person who likely knows the most about what happened to their loved
one he thinks it's part of his job to be there we're available to these families
24 hours a day even to this day and so detective byerson was there when the judge decided Megan and what was left of
the family she helped to destroy would have to relive all that pain a second time
you might not know this but after a verdict defense attorneys and prosecutors often reach out to jurors to
find out what they could have done better detective byerson does it too you always want to know afterwards hey what
did we do that you guys thought was important or do you guys have any questions in general about anything that
happened um sort of trying to gauge them to see how do we do a better job in the
next trial but after Megan's first trial when her attorneys pulled jurors one of
them volunteered that she had done an experiment outside of the Jury Room at home sort of a
reenactment to try to figure out if um one of the theories presented by the defense was uh was possible in fact that
juror had tried to test whether Helen could have used her toe to push the trigger of a long rifle here's 48 Hours
producer Michelle sigona I have personally not had very many cases over my career where there's been juror
misconduct this isn't something that I have personally seen it happens but generally there's some sort of
conclusion someone is found guilty or not guilty byerson told us how the juror's admission set off a chain of
events the defense then uh notified us about this the judge did exactly what he should have done and that is just vacate
the ruling detective byerson was at that hearing he understood why the judge decided to throw out the first verdict
against Megan haran and as difficult as that was to explain to the surviving sister that we would have to do this
whole thing over again byon remembered sitting in a room at the courthouse with Ashley to talk through what the judge's
decision meant I mean we we sat down as a group after that hearing myself and our wonderful uh victim Services
representative who was working alongside me with Ashley for the entirety of the of this journey and the prosecutors and
we all had a uh conversation during their meeting detective byerson thought Ashley seemed to take the news okay I
would say that she took it better than I thought uh she would I mean the mood was
not good that that was the expectation going in there was that I mean we were not happy
with what happened with that juror but that being said I I could not argue with the ruling
and in a way byerson realized this decision by the judge would be a blessing in disguise if the judge hadn't
vacated the first verdict byerson thought Megan's lawyers surely would have tried to appeal the verdict after
they discovered this jur misconduct but that appeal would have taken a long time years to work its way
through the courts at least in this case Megan could be tried again more quickly
I think what the judge was doing was basically saying there's a likelihood that this will be overturned based on
the conduct of the juror so instead of just wasting all of that time I'm just going to say From the
Bench here that I'm vacating at his meeting with Ashley her father Steve and the prosecutors byerson said
they immediately started strategizing about the next trial Ashley understood that as difficult as that was I think
for her she understood what happened and she was very very steadfast in her cooperation and her intention
to help us out and be a ailable for whatever we needed to go through this whole thing again prosecutors and
detective byerson saw an opportunity to hone their arguments for the second trial that meant going back through the
witness list and trying to figure out hey do we want to approach this in the exact same way with the exact same
Witnesses with the exact same lineup as we did the first time or do we want to change some things around which we
ultimately decided to do between trials Megan stayed locked up Megan was never released from uh from custody or
anything like that she was held Megan's next trial wouldn't happen until September
2023 almost a year after her first verdict was thrown out during this time Michelle sagona said she thought about
Megan's Daughter Molly I think about the little girl in all of this who has lost
her grandmother lost her aunt essentially lost her mother I think about the victim's loved ones while the
prosecution had a plan berson still worried about how a new jury would interpret the evidence even though our
conviction rate is is very very good here in Fairfax you never really know what a jury's
thinking summer was nearing its end in 2023 when the second trial against Megan haran began it went a bit quicker
because this time they left one key witness out we did not call Ashley to testify which was different than the
first trial in the first trial the defense accused Ashley of lying and plotting to
put Megan behind bars so that she could inherit their mother's entire estate they also focused on Ashley's inability
to remember some details the first time was sort of based around some things that she didn't
recall um and and they spent they spent a lot of time on sort of roughing her up
a little bit because she couldn't recall some things Ashley wouldn't have to suffer through another difficult
cross-examination if she never took the stand it just really wasn't worth it to put her up there and put her through
sort of a rigorous cross-examination uh like that happen in the first trial especially when Helen's boyfriend Carlos
Gutierrez could testify to a lot of the same evidence that Ashley had shared the
first time around plus detective byerson said he and the prosecutors thought the
new plan might surprise the defense we just kind of decided yeah we're going to keep her subpoena or
whatever and then we can use her if we if we absolutely need to or we can use her later on as a btle witness byerson
admires Ashley for everything she has endured she's one of the strongest people I've ever met in my life she was
there every day she came in she dealt with testimony and then just like us she sat and waited for that verdict byerson
said that his testimony didn't really change from the first trial to the second the way I look at it is all I'm
talking about is is basically facts right cuz I'm not I'm not up there I'm not going to be able to offer my opinion
on anything or what I think none of that stuff matters right detective berson focused on the Capital One calls and the
4 and a half hour interview Megan gave him by then he'd come to see that long police interview in a different light
she was demanding an update on where we were with the case which is you know in hindsight is very interesting right she
really wanted to know you know what we were doing Megan sometimes had a hard time keeping her story straight but
detective byerson now thinks during that long interview she was really trying to
figure out how to get away with murder I mean she's a she's a sociopath I think she's always thought that she could talk
her way out of anything or she you know she could explain her way out of all of this stuff the prosecutors weren't sure
whether Megan would testify in her own defense that's why they kept Ashley's possible testimony in their back pocket
if something comes out that we we specifically need her to rebut especially if her sister ends up taking
the stand or something like that but Megan never testified so we just we ultimately didn't call
her however Carlos did have to fly to Virginia from Texas to take the stand again detective byerson knew revisiting
that awful day when the love of his life died wouldn't be easy I've talked to Carlos a lot Carlos
is a is a good guy this has this has affected him uh tremendously the loss of his of Helen and the way it happened and
and sort of cuz you got to remember you know he he was basically the last person
that she ever talked to and she not only talked to but she was telling him what was going on in real time so he's got
that burden on him for the rest of his life which I think is difficult to handle it's a burden he eloquently and
emotionally shared with the jurors making him a crucial witness because he's the one that gets
in all of that conversation from that morning and the weird things that were going on that morning like you know
Megan answering Helen's phone detective byerson said Carlos struggled to even get through the second trial he flew in
from Texas for both trials and I'm positive he didn't want to especially after after that time goes and stuff and
now we're asking you hey you know I I'm really sorry but a juror did something you know that that is making
us have have to have to do this whole thing over again can you please come back out and bear your soul on the stand
again but he did it ultimately he said that continuing to discuss the murders was too difficult and he didn't want to
do an interview but berson said one thing was clear I think he truly loved Helen after the defense chose not to
have Megan testify her fate was once again in the hands of a jury for me personally when you're sitting there and
you you get the call that hey there's a verdict and you come back in the courtroom and you sit down and you're
waiting like that that 10 minutes for everybody to get back including the defense and then and you know the the
defendant and then the jury to sort of come out and and read that uh verdict the second jury
agreed with the first Megan haran was found guilty again of killing her sister Helen and her mother
Pamela and then there's kind of like this emotional relief that's taken off your shoulders because especially like
for for for the detectives and and the family who have been dealing with this since day one at at this point detective
byerson knew the haran family inside and out you develop these bonds with these with these victims because you talk you
know weakly in their conversations berson said that Ashley talked about her niece Megan's Daughter Molly Ashley was
worried at the time of the murders Molly was eight and back then she too had to be interviewed by police we had asked
asked that Megan not be involved in bringing Molly to the forensic interview site the safe spot is that's who we use
to do those interviews they specialize in traumatic interviews of children Megan brought her daughter to that
interview which was not helpful and she also interrupted the interview on several occasions losing her grandmother
Pamela was devastating for Molly she'd spent nearly every day of her young life living with her grandma remember soon
after the shootings Molly's parents moved her out of state she lived with them until her mother's arrest now
Molly's going back to live with her dad who she hadn't ever lived with before and is taken away from the rest of that
family that was taken care of her the hargens had already suffered the worst betrayal a daughter shooting her mother
and then putting a bullet into her youngest sister's head and why for money and Molly detective byerson says she was
left heartbroken and Confused in a lot of the phone calls after this happened it was very evident to us that her
daughter had no idea where she was she certainly didn't know that Mom went to jail Megan haran was sentenced at the
start of 2024 a Fairfax County woman was hit with two consecutive life sentences
after she was convicted of killing her mother and her younger sister and then telling police it was a murder
suicide both Ashley and Carlos came to the sentencing it's strange now to think back to 2017 and the phone call when
they first spoke when Carlos called Ashley to tell her shots had been fired at her mother's
house and to reveal what Helen had told him that Megan had killed her mother back then Ashley wasn't sure what to
believe every single emotion right now hearing about this finding out about this from Helen's piece of [ __ ]
boyfriend but now they both sat United in grief at the Fairfax County Courthouse waiting to hear how long
Megan would spend Behind Bars more than six years later this case finally comes to a close 48 Hours
producer Michelle sigona Can't Stop thinking about the hargens and where they will go from here this will
obviously go on uh this doesn't end the the pain and the anguish I I don't want to speak for them but I can't imagine
ends for the family especially for for this little girl for for Megan's child we learn that Steve and Ashley haran no
longer have contact with Molly as it turns out soon after hearing hearing those Capital One calls Ashley did two
things she cooperated with police on their investigation and she started seeing if she could get custody of Molly
from Megan and her husband at the first trial Ashley testified that she didn't feel comfortable with Molly living with
Megan in West Virginia according to Ashley in her own word she wanted to take custody of her because she knew she
could give her the home that Molly deserved essentially and which she said quote I could give her a loving and
caring home and yeah she's an amazing little girl end quote Ashley had stopped trusting her sister and perhaps by
extension her husband too Ashley was in fear for Molly being in a situation or in a home with Megan and her husband and
that's why according to court testimony Ashley went forward and applied for for custody she wanted to to protect Molly
as best as she could but Ashley's attempts to get custody failed and after Megan's arrest
her husband Frank stopped allowing Molly to call Ashley or her Grandpa they are now estranged here's detective Brian
berson for Ashley not only does she lose her mom and her sister but effectively she loses her other sister as well in
the process and she's left compl completely you know by herself she was an aunt to Megan's daughter and saw her
consistently and after this happened all of that stuff was cut off Steve haran asked to get visitation rights as a
grandparent but was denied Megan's husband at the time just totally cut off communication between their daughter and
and that side of the family Frank hung up on us when we called him for comment Frank has been such a mystery in this
story Frank didn't testify in either trial nor has he kept in touch with detectives here's byerson he answered
some questions that we had in the beginning of this stuff and then he you know he just he sort of just disappeared
you know it seems like he just didn't want to deal with this byerson said he questioned Frank but never got all the
answers I've always thought about it like this if I'm sitting personally if I'm sitting in a realtor's
office and I'm going to buy a home with my wife and my wife sends me a bank statement that would indicate that we
had half a million dollars in the bank I would have several questions about that
he seemed to have none Frank was never charged with anything connected to the house or Helen and Pamela's murders and
detective byerson said they chose not to investigate his involvement further I think anybody looking at this
from like a fair point of view would probably have those same questions that we have
like did you think it was you just thought it was a gift and you never talked to like your mother-in-law about
this this huge gift of a you know it it just it doesn't make any sense Frank was often away on a military
deployment which is why Megan said they didn't live together it was easier to live with her mother and have her help
raise Molly but byerson didn't know what changed in 2017 why all of a sudden did Megan
desperately want to live with her husband as far as we were able to ascertain they never lived together she
always sort of lived with her mom and sort of her mom took care of her and her mom took care of her granddaughter she
was being a doting grandmother and she wanted to make sure that Molly you know had all these nice things in life and
and then at the end of the day that's also taken away from Molly byerson said Megan has never offered her father or
sister more details I don't know that she'll ever give them the satisfaction of explaining to them why she did it
Megan's attorney at the Fairfax County Virginia's public defender office did not respond when we contacted them for
this podcast at the time of sentencing her attorneys claimed they would appeal even today byerson doesn't think Megan
would even admit to her crimes I think if you asked her today she would still say she didn't do it what at this point
24 people have decided that she did uh in two separate trials and you know we're supposed to believe that it's just
a coincidence that the day before in the day of your your family's murder that you're trying to do this crazy wire
transfer for a half million dollar to buy a house in West Virginia byerson knows that even if Megan were to explain
why she shot her mother in Sister it wouldn't do much good to me personally because it's just I know what what they
lost and how they lost it and um the fact that they're still you know putting one foot in front
of the other is is a a testament to them for sure Ashley Never spoke to us for this podcast but Steve haran did go on
the record to offer a simple truth I will forever be devastated that I lost my daughter um
Helen um and it's uh it's something that is has had a profound impact on the family as a
whole and I will I leave it at that I agree with him you don't need a lot of words to sort of explain
something that's not explainable to the majority of the people who are going to hear it byerson has long believed a
Court's decision can bring justice but not closure Helen haran will never marry Carlos or finish grad
school Pamela will never be surrounded by loving children and grandchildren this this this family
violence is sort of the worst of the worst of this because when I think I think when it's a
stranger you can still in your mind kind of put out a bunch of scenarios as to why this happened right but when this
person is a part of your immediate family that does this to another person in your immediate
family with no explanation offered by them other than this Mone there's no closure for them that's that's why I
don't like that word like they they're never going to be the [Music] same from 48 hours this is blood is
thicker the haran family killings Judy Tigard is the executive producer of of 48 Hours original reporting by 48 Hours
producers Josh joerger Sarah elely Holz Michelle sagona and Lauren white Jamie Benson is the senior producer for
paramont audio and Mora walls is the senior story editor recording assistant from Alan Pang and Marlin
polycarp special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan Marcus and 48 Hours senior producer Peter
schwitzer blood is thicker is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was written and
produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan
Hirsch our associate producer is Zoe kulin theme and original music composed by hansdale shei he also soundd designed
and mixed the episodes we also use music by Blue Dot sessions Katherine Newan is
our fact Checker our production managers are tamaa balance kassi and Samantha Allison I'm Peter vanat if you're
enjoying the show be sure to rate and review it helps more people find it and hear our reporting if you liked blood is
thicker check out the rest of our 48 Hours podcast by searching 48 Hours on your favorite podcast app and subscribe
to 48 hours plus on Apple podcasts for adree listening thanks for [Music] listening there were two bodies that
were located inside of this home and that's really all we knew is there a little adrenaline when you're pulling up
always your blood starts to get ped a little bit and you start to think about how this is going to play
out what did you see as you entered this home well it's a very nice home in a great
neighborhood Fairfax County is located just outside of Washington DC it is an an affluent area of Northern Virginia it
was a million-dollar home as you walk through the kitchen you encounter a mudroom that connects the
kitchen to the garage in that mud room we discover Pamela haran how was she positioned on the
ground she was lying face down and she had a blanket laid over her like a quilt her cell phone is actually laying on top
of the quilt and there was a pull of blood coming from the area of her head onto the floor what else do you find we
go upstairs and then we encounter Helen haret inside of the bathroom that's in her
bedroom she appeared to have been sitting on the toilet when she was shock she was fully closed she has some kind
of trauma uh to her head there's a rifle in between her legs she's got a tremendous amount of uh blood in her
mouth finding two deceased persons with one with a gun on their body might have been a murder suicide suicide possibly
what are we looking at here now this is the main room of the basement that set of books for photo albums and I wanted
to see what my victims may have looked like in life Pam haran was a woman in her 60s an
incredibly successful business-minded woman she was generous with her money this is a woman who built an $8 million
estate she poured her life into her family Helen the youngest daughter had returned home from college Helen was the
kind of daughter I think that everybody would want she was lovely she had a number of friends she had a
boyfriend Helen never struck me as having a dark side mother's and daughter's butt heads
I mean did Helen and her mother get along perfectly I don't think so you don't know what goes on behind closed
doors maybe Helen had murdered her mother and then shot herself so what's your gut telling you as you
take a look at these two bodies wait you will make mistakes if you make assumptions before you actually do the
work and so she would have had to have done what to shoot herself in the head that way
magic she would have hadn't done magic it just is impossible [Music] [Music] Friday July 14th
2017 about 5:00 p.m. Fairfax County Virginia police visit the next of kin to deliver awful news 63-year-old Pam haran
and 24-year-old Helen haran are dead Pamela was shot twice in the mud room lead detective Brian byerson says police
are recording and whispering to avoid being overheard when they give Pam's ex-husband Steve more painful details
about Helen she had other shot from the I'm really sorry there was a thought that went
around that it might have been a murder suicide haran soon summons his other two
daughters 32-year-old Ashley and 34-year-old Megan what is happening what happened they react with equal parts
pain and panic oh God what are we going to do Jesus what are we going to do I don't know our mom takes care of
everything yeah I just don't even understand we were at the freaking house Megan haran tells authorities she
and her 8-year-old Daughter Molly have been living with Pam and Helen while her husband is in the military she says
she'd left the home with Molly at about 1:30 p.m. that day adding that there had
been an argument between her mother and Helen who had been upset Helen has been so
angry like just so angry all the time and struggling emotionally I knew H was depressed but like to do this like I
can't wrap my head around this is it true that she once threatened suicide I think that that is possibly true yes in
fact Ashley would later tell authorities Helen had thoughts about self harm I know my sister was depressed has she
ever talked about hurting herself yeah but Megan also suggests her mother and sister could have been attacked by
offering a potentially important clue something she reports she'd seen the day before two suspicious males casing the
neighborhood and she later tells us those particular guys are the reason why she ends up bringing this rifle up to
the main floor of the house if it's the 22 Ruger rifle found with Helen's body and it belongs to Megan's husband she
says her mother had allowed her to stored in the house until the couple moved into their own place in West
Virginia my husband and I literally just closed on our new home yesterday my mom
bought it for us Steve and Pam haran divorced when the children were young Pam took them and
moved around before ending up in pomac Maryland next door to Tammy malos Megan was very upset about the divorce
in the next few years Tammy got to know Megan and her little sister Helen and often saw them across the backyard fence
the girls were out in the yard all the time with the dogs that sort of thing so Tammy says she always knew there was a
sibling rivalry Megan did bring that up a lot saying that Helen was the favorite
but she remembers that for the most part the haran sisters seemed to get along fine Pam was proud of them she talked
highly of her girls whenever I did speak with her pamaran poured her life into those
kids Michelle sagona works for CBS news she's been covering this story for nearly four years and says the other
love of Pam haran's life was her job Pam had spent decades climbing the career ladder to become a vice president of
Aerospace giant loed Martin she had built an $8 million estate but she didn't keep it for herself she was
constantly giving to those around her specifically to her children Helen seemed to have her mother's ambition
double majoring in math and management science at Southern Methodist University in Dallas that's where Aaron Rockne met
her in 2014 when I first met her I was extremely scared of her because she didn't laugh
or smile she's kind of like a onion you have to peel the layers off and you really get to know the kind and genuine
person underneath there Rockne says they became close friends it's been said that
Helen may have suffered from depression did you ever see any of that I did not at
all Rockne says her friend spent a lot of time studying though Helen did have a job at a nearby restaurant she was
working as a waitress there was a 30s something named Carlos Gutierrez working in the restaurant too they fell for each
other in short order and they had plans to move in together ham had started building a
house for Helen in Northern Virginia so in the spring of 2017 Helen had moved back home from Dallas according to
Carlos he hadn't asked her to be his wife but he was working towards that but Megan tells police Pam hadn't approved
of Helen's relationship she believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the
house and my mom didn't want him being there still Helen had been moving ahead planning for the future it was just a
matter of figuring out her career path takes a little while to figure it out but she was going to get there but Helen
haran never got there Fairfax cany police on fire how may I assist you yes have an
emergency on the day of the shooting it was Carlos Gutierrez who had first alerted authorities that something in
the haran house was dreadfully wrong I'm in Dallas Texas and my girlfriend lives
in M he says he and Helen had spoken earlier that morning now he can't get in touch with her and he's worried my
girlfriend won't answer the phone and and I'm thinking my girlfriend's life is in
danger okay sir what I need you to do then is contact your local jurisdiction file a report with them and tell them
that Fairfax County requires a teletype in order to do a welfare check I feel really bad for Carlos because he's
bounced around all over the place just trying to get somebody to listen to the fact that he thinks his girlfriend's
life is in danger I think this is like life or death like I think some might be dead Carlos gutieres would later testify
about why he was so concerned he would also tell a jury he felt authorities were giving him the runaround that day
even when he called back later was something explosive to add something Helen had told him exactly what did your
girlfriend say to you [Laughter] [Music] fact Poli on fire how may I assist you yes have an
emergency it's 1:44 p.m. on July 14th 2017 Carlos Gutierrez Helen's boyfriend in Texas is having a hard time with 911
Dispatchers in Virginia like I think someone let dead right sir contact your local jurisdiction
the report the call ends without a promise of help so 15 minutes later Carlos calls
again police and this time he makes a startling Revelation about something he says Helen had told him on the phone
that morning my girlfriend told me that her sister killed her mom now my girlfriend won't answer her
phone Megan haran had murdered her mother or at least that's what Carlos said Helen had told him okay was this
supped out of the blue your girlfriend is sitting in a house with a dead woman yes why was Carlos who was more than a
th000 miles away calling 911 why didn't Helen call herself what was going on in that
house I reported murder earlier and I have the address address when police arrive around 300
p.m. they find Pam is dead but they discover Helen's body too Carlos had offered authorities a
possible explanation for Pam but Helen was a mystery Megan haran told police something interesting her mother and
sister had been arguing that day this morning my mom let Helen know that she was canceling the contract
on the house she's building her because she truly believed that Helen was going to try to move Carlos into the house and
when middle sister Ashley hears that Carlos is accusing Megan of Murder She makes it clear she doesn't believe him
she would never do that ever never okay Megan haran's friend Rebecca wolf agrees I do not believe that Magan
killed her mom Pam or her sister Helen no piece of me believes that Rebecca and Megan met in 2015 when they both were
volunteering in a program to find homes for dogs rescued from war zones Rebecca says that Megan always had a passion for
Animals she is very compassionate Generous Heart she is just a really good person and Rebecca Says Megan often
talked about her family her generous mother Megan admired Pam's wisdom her career
she always spoke very lovingly of her and her sisters especially the baby of the family Helen Megan talked about
Helen struggling with things and feeling depressed but I never got the impression
that it was insurmountable Rebecca says that Megan called her on the day of the shooting
and sounded like a woman who'd lost everything very distraught and she did not give me details of what had happened
she just said we've lost mom and Helen by 8:00 p.m. police had told the media what they had told the haran family this
looked like a murder suicide but detective byerson says the more he saw of the crime scene the less he thought
so and the more he wanted to take a closer look at Megan haran that night he had officers test her hands for gunshot
residue and photograph her did she become a person of interest at that moment she's certainly a person of
interest because we know that she was in the house police knew the house probably
held answers crime scene detective Julia Elliot who had joined detective byerson
at the scene spent the evening combing for evidence I was shown Pamela's body first one thing that caught her
attention was Pam haran's cell phone it's laying on top of the pool of blood and the blanket was it unusual to see
the cell phone in this kind of position yes it certainly wouldn't fall on top of
the blanket and on top of the blood once you were already covered up and what does it suggest that the cell phone is
lying on top of this comforter that suggests to me that it was placed there by someone Elliot says the Helen hargan
shooting scene was next she had a lot of blood on her face so much blood that it
was impossible to see an entry wound and there was more on the floor but there was a lack of blood where investigators
expected to see it the rifle itself had very little blood on it the rifle was leaning against Helen's body the butt
was on the floor between her legs the barrel was pointed up towards the ceiling you would expect that if the
rifle had been sitting there as she bled so heavily it would also have blood on it and was there anything on this gun
from Megan no what about fingerprints on this rifle none that were usable there was DNA found on the trigger but it
wasn't Megan or Helen's is it true that Helen's DNA was found on the rifle case yes that is true but byerson says only
on the tip of the case Megan's DNA was on the case handles it's part of the reason police believe Helen haran never
touched the gun that day as she died someone else was there to place it on her she says Helen's phone was telling
as well there was almost no blood on it and although Helen had used it that day to talk and text with Carlos there were
no fingerprints either what we found was what looked like swi marks as if someone
had taken their hand and wiped off the front of the screen though it would take time to
learn exactly how the haran women died in the basement Detective Elliot saw an immediate opportunity to learn how they
had lived I got a little uh nosy and I wanted to see what my victims may have looked like in life so I pulled out one
of the center photo albums to look at it and open it up tucked away in that album
a family photos was something that seemed out of place documents Megan's bank statement pams 2o and a spreadsheet
full of passwords and security verification details to unlock all of Pam haran's accounts well that's
interesting were you able to analyze the paper so at the time of us locating that
financial documents were not on our search warrant so Detective Elliot photographed the documents and left them
in the house but when she entered with the proper search warrant days later they were not there they were not
there they were not the house had been returned to the haran family's custody the day after
after the shooting and something else had happened that day the medical examiner delivered her
report on Helen haran's autopsy casting doubt on the murder suicide Theory it tells us that someone
else pulled the trigger [Music] [Music] a police spokesman was calling the haran
shootings a murder suicide but the next day when detective Brian byerson saw Helen's autopsy report
he was certain it was something else the gunshot wound on Helen haran was in the top of her
head the rifle bullet had traveled downward into her neck she would have to hold it straight up and be able to reach
the trigger to accomplish this I've never seen that before and I've worked a lot of murders well what does that tell
you when you when you learn that information it tells us that someone else pulled the
trigger as detective byon arrived to work two days later on Monday July 17th good morning thank you for calling cap
one Bay there was a clue waiting for him a clue that byerson was able to take all
the way way to the bank that Monday morning I have a message on my desk phone from Capital One the bank had some
startling news Bank employees had seen reports of Pam haran's death and wanted him to know about some strange activity
on her account so you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen haran someone claiming to be pamaran had called the
bank the day before the shooting with a request what can I do for today I was told that I could do a wire transfer
whoever it was was trying to transfer money more than $400,000 out of Pam's account to a real
estate settlement company in West Virginia oh you getting ready to buy a house uh for my daughter yes the caller
was able to successfully answer Pam's security questions all right you Ace of verification great job detective byerson
discovered that the transaction hadn't gone through so the caller had tried again the next day on the morning of
Pam's murder uh yes we attempted to yesterday and there was a bit of a mixup so we would like to do it again now they
need it today somebody's trying to perhaps steal Pam's money yes and byerson believed he knew who
that somebody was that is Megan haran pretending to be her mother pretending pretending he just decided it was time
for him to get Megan haran on the phone Megan how how you holding up I am really
not okay Megan claimed the attempted wire transfers were just an innocent mixup at
the bank but by now byerson was suspicious of everything she said he began to think Megan haran had been
trying to confuse police all along I realize there's a lot of confusion here Megan had stressed Helen's
depression and anger issues with investigators Helen has been so angry like just so angry all the time
over everything but Megan told byerson her sister would never have killed herself or her mom I can't imagine my
own baby sister doing that at all she repeated her story about two strange men in the neighborhood I had to
call the police about these two guys people had called them apparently but byerson says that tip went nowhere the
only call that's made about these guys in the neighborhood is from Megan haran he had run down every lead every
alternative Theory there were no other suspects but there was a motive the money and the person who had needed it
couldn't stop talking she demanded to come in and get an update on the case so on July 19th 5 days after Pam
and Helen's deaths detective byerson brought Megan in my mom he says that once Megan started this is just
unimaginable she wouldn't stop everything I could ask her for anything we just can't get her to leave this is
you she stayed for more than 4 hours long story short the point I making we would ask her questions that we knew the
answer to and she would either pivot to something else I don't understand what or just outright not answer the question
I don't know what you want me to say we want you to tell the truth I just want you to answer the
question at first Megan insisted it was her mom who had made those calls to the bank I'm going to play the call but when
byerson played the tapes for her who is that on the phone me it's you right detective byerson says she finally
admitted to lying to him about the wire transfer why in the world would you do that
I knew how it would look no no it's not how it would look you knew that if we knew about this that would shine a whole
new light on you still she was adamant that she hadn't shot anyone so it was truly bizarre when halfway into the
interview just blame me just answer the question just blame me just blame me just blame me my family's turn enough
just blame me so we can move on from this okay it seemed like she was acknowledging that we knew that she did
it without openly giving us a detailed confession this is not happening this is though inadmissible in court no I she
readily agreed to take a polygraph she failed three times berson says it was all adding up
he was sitting across from a killer it becomes very obvious to us it is exactly who we think it is and it's
Megan Harden but despite everything police let Megan leave that day so murder investigations can be extremely complex
you not only have to be sure you have to be right and that decision is not just it
does not just rest on me I have to be on the same page as the Commonwealth attorney's office so in consultation
with them we decided to wait law enforcement may not have moved but Megan haran did though she never got Pam's money she
and her husband used a VA loan to buy a different house in West Virginia we kept
an eye on her we knew where she was berson methodically kept building his case evidence kept trickling in
including the results of Megan's gunshot residue test which showed she had it on
both hands and on November 9th 2018 almost a year and a half after the deaths of Pam and Helen haran this
morning at approximately 7:40 a.m. detectives from our Major Crimes Bureau stopped and arrested Megan haran near
her home in West Virginia as detective byerson takes Megan in investigators search her home
and find yet another important clue that missing password sheet to Pam haran's accounts do you have any doubt that
Megan was the person who pulled that trigger I have no doubt at all what the defense would say is that there is doubt
all over this case Megan haran's defense will include a specific theory of how Helen could
have killed herself she puts her head down and that she's able to utilize the trigger probably with her toe to be able
to discharge the weapon but will the jury agree even the experts said it's possible what did you see in her eyes
nothing I don't see much behind those eyes more than 3 years after her arrest for the murders of her mother and sister
Megan haran is going on trial I think she's pure evil Whitney Gregory and Tyler Billa are Prosecuting the case
Megan is a pathological liar that's what she is the Commonwealth of Virginia opens by arguing Megan tried to steal
more than $400,000 from Pam for this new house and got so desperate for the cash that she
killed her then she killed Helen to keep her quiet and staged the scene as a murder suicide this is an individual who
murdered two of her closest family members for money the defense argues Helen was the killer mentally unstable
and Furious at her mother who had offered her a new house but the morning of the shooting announced there was one
devastating ition Helen had to break up with the man she had hoped to marry Carlos Gutierrez what is your greatest
challenge with this jury proving it wasn't a suicide to do that they begin by calling
Carlos and Helen's sister Ashley who testify on the day she died Helen seemed normal and fine did Helen have a
diagnosis of depression no and she didn't take her own life says detective Julia Elliot it's a homicide who tells
the jury about the blood stains and position of the rifle she did not have an armband long enough to pull the
trigger her fingers are not reaching the trigger crime scene Reconstructionist Iris graph agrees what's on the screen
okay this is a forensic animation a virtual model prosecutors hired graph to use photos and measurements from the
house to create this Digital model she can't read that trigger right we still need another 5 in So based on your
scientific analysis was the wound that killed Helen self-inflicted within the context of
this scene it's not possible that she could self-inflict that wound Gregory says that's just common sense did the
Tooth Fairy put the gun hole here Helen's wound isn't the only evidence pointing at Megan Megan's conduct in her
police interview is damning too yes she did we had and so are those phone calls to the bank thank you for calling cap
One bank would you tell me your name please Pamela Hansen hargen I understand you want to complete a wire transfer
with us today uh yes they need it today Megan's panicking because she still owes
that money on the house prosecutors reveal Megan lied to police about Pam buying her a house saying the reality is
that Megan was trying to buy that West Virginia property with her her mother's money turns out Megan still owed more
than $400,000 due the day of the shooting the prosecution contends she'd secretly
substituted her name onto Pam's bank statement as proof of funds Pam was apparently totally in the dark until the
day before the shooting when the bank called the real Pam hi who am I speaking to who am I speaking to my name is Jeff
with Capital One okay this is pamel Hanson haran a bank officer had called her to authenticate
the attempted wire transfer somebody tried to do a wire out of your account for $400 and some odd, thousand what I
did not do that the defense would say that there is doubt all over this case the defense declined to be interviewed
so he asked Matt Tano an attorney with decades in court he didn't try this case but we hired him to review the file to
help prove reasonable doubt he says the defense contends Helen was the suspicious one that day Helen doesn't
call 911 she doesn't run out of the house for safety she tells her boyfriend do not call for help why didn't Helen
call 911 that is one of the pieces to the puzzle that we'll never have that's a question that came up during the trial
why didn't she just leave why didn't she call 911 we don't know there's a lot authorities may never know
for sure about the roughly two hours they say lapsed between Pam's and Helen's deaths if Megan killed Pam why
did she wait so long to kill Helen and why on Earth hadn't Helen made a run for it testimonies suggests she was worried
about 8-year-old Molly who was home at the time not a good enough explanation says troano for hours Peter she allowed
what is claimed to be a murderer run loose in a home with a rifle without seeking help without barricading her
into a room he says Helen's body showed no definitive signs of a life and death struggle why wouldn't she have fought
back and how credible are the witnesses against Megan haran trano says the defense wants the jury to believe one
may not be credible at all her sister Ashley her story has changed when she'd spoken to investigators soon after the
shooting Ashley told them Helen had once been in emotional turmoil I know my sister was
depressed has she ever talked about hurting herself yeah but once on the stand Ashley
testified she doesn't remember ever saying that she says 50 times thereabouts that she
doesn't remember certain things there's two ways to look at that number one is that she doesn't remember right number
two is that she doesn't want to say things that are not helpful for the prosecution Ashley testified that she
couldn't recall more than 150 times why was that anytime you're dealing with the
victim of trauma there are always going to be aspects that she can't recall whatever the jury thinks of Ashley the
defense wants to explain to them how Helen could have pulled the trigger on that rifle and they have a theory with
her toe she puts her head down and that she's able to utilize the trigger probably with her toe to be able to
discharge the weapon toe she's got to figure out some way and the the critical question is could it have been done even
the prosecution's expert witness concedes while very unlikely it is possible can her toe reach the trigger
yes her legs are long enough that her toe could reach the trigger either way the judge thinks Iris graph's digital
reconstruction isn't necessary so he prevents the jury from seeing it and though Megan haran never testifies every
shred of evidence shows that Megan haran was the one who committed these murders in closings prosecutor basilla
argues there's no evidence idence Pam haran was actually going to cancel the contract on Helen's new house and he
urges the jury to compare Helen's Behavior around the time of the shooting to Megan's he says Megan's actions speak
for themselves she's doing all these things that a murderer would do but the defense insists there's Reasonable Doubt
in this case they argue the prosecutor's forensics are inconclusive and the toe on the trigger
Theory cannot be ruled out it's possible and if it's possible that then lends itself to doubt Megan haran is
innocent Megan's friend Rebecca wolf spent about 5 years working for the justice department she knows her way
around a criminal trial and has been at this one almost every day I would not be
comfortable sending someone to prison for the rest of their life without knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt in
my mind that they did it on March 24th 2022 almost 5 years after the shootings the jury gets the case based on your
review of this case as the jury is heading into deliberation could this go either way
sure as the jurors come back into the room they have a decision are you looking at their
faces yes after a 3 week trial it takes the jury less than two days of deliberations to reach a verdict I I
thought my legs were going to go weak cuz we were standing up and it had been just like months of Our Lives that this
is all we had done Megan haran is guilty two counts of first-degree murder for killing her
sister Helen and mother Pam how did Megan react to the verdict at least for me as a prosecutor
I don't want to look over at that table I think it's not very classy I'm just sort of In the Zone trying not to pass
out I think weight lifted off of everybody it was a very emotional moment the jury recommends a sentence to
the judge of life in prison on each murder count I thought for sure that I would be getting a phone call and coming
to pick her up 100% Megan's friend Rebecca wolf thinks this jury was shortsighted I thought they were going
to see through all of this they were going to look at all the evidence they were going to ask the right questions
they were going to do their job this job is difficult detective byerson thinks there are parts of Authority's conduct
in this case that he would have changed if he could how 911 dispatchers responded to Carlos Gutierrez and how
quickly the Fairfax County PD went public with the murder suicide Theory I don't find it helpful to kind of make a
blanket statement about what we think it is because it doesn't matter what we think it is it only matters what it
turns out to be was Justice served in this case depends on what Justice is right you're never bringing back the two
lives that were lost the domino effect of tragedy from what happened is immeasurable
though the trial is finally finished waves of grief still wash over the surviving haran
family it's just an immeasurable grief and ripples still reverberate in the lives of people they touched like
Pam's former neighbor Tammy and I was just just devastated I mean just but what I didn't have any words it was just
unbelievable and Helen's friend Aaron I was in chalk who had moved abroad after graduation
and had to hear about her death from us I had no idea that happened to her you're convinced if Helen were alive
today she'd be on the road to some great success some great career absolutely she'd be a trailblazer
how do you want your friend Helen to be remembered for being kind and compassionate
driven and caring just a very caring person [Music] 48 hours to miss it would be a crime
were you at all prepared for what happened in this case [Music]

"48 Hours" correspondent Peter Van Sant unpacks the web of evidence from the complex case of the Hargan killings, revealing treacherous motives of jealousy and a family fortune. Listen to all six episodes of "Blood is Thicker: The Hargan Family Killings" podcast and watch the full episode "Death Hits Home: The Hargan Killings."

0:00 Episode 1: Home from Texas 26:15 Episode 2: The Boyfriend 54:09 Episode 3: A Killer in Plain Sight 1:21:18 Episode 4: The Impersonator 1:50:09 Episode 5: Toe on the Trigger 2:14:00 Episode 6: The Aftermath 2:43:31 "Death Hits Home: The Hargan Killings"

True crime. Real justice. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

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Brief Summary

Megan Haran is convicted of murdering her mother and sister over financial motives in a tragic family case.

Key points

Detective's Grim Discovery. Detectives find two bodies in the Haran home, leading to suspicions of a murder-suicide.
Family Dynamics Unraveled. As detectives investigate, they uncover the complex relationships and tensions within the Haran family.
Carlos's Desperate 911 Call. Carlos Gutierrez calls 911, fearing for his girlfriend's life as he describes a horrific situation unfolding.
Megan's Emotional Response. Megan struggles with the reality of her family's tragedy, showing signs of distress.
Detectives Doubt Megan's Story. As the interrogation continues, detectives begin to doubt Megan's version of events.
Megan's Apology. Under pressure, Megan starts apologizing during the interrogation, hinting at deeper issues.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This story sounds like something made up by a Hollywood screenwriter.

Peter Van Sant's reflection on the case's bizarre nature.

5:22WatchJul 3, 2024

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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